The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Dave Rubin on Charlie Kirk’s Legacy, Free Speech, and Navigating a Divided America

Summary

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The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Dave Rubin on Charlie Kirk’s Legacy, Free Speech, and Navigating a Divided America

Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show (iHeartPodcasts)
Episode: The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Dave Rubin on Charlie Kirk’s Legacy...
Date: September 19, 2025
Guests: Tudor Dixon (host), Dave Rubin (guest, host of The Rubin Report)

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Overview

In this episode, Tudor Dixon welcomes Dave Rubin to discuss the legacy of Charlie Kirk, the complexities of mourning in the digital age, the challenges facing free speech in America, and the experience of navigating hatred and division within modern political discourse. The conversation explores personal memories, the vital importance of civil engagement, the influence of social media on grief and debate, and the undercurrents shaping today's young people. The tone is candid, reflective, and frequently moving, as both host and guest draw from personal experience to examine some of the United States’ most pressing cultural issues.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Mourning in a Hyper-Connected Age

Timestamps: 03:06–07:37

• Personal Grieving and Public Figures:
  Dave reflects on Charlie Kirk’s death, the awkwardness of grieving publicly as a commentator, and the shock of loss amid ongoing responsibilities:

  “You have to narrate it live. You have to talk about it on TV... it wasn’t until last night... that it really hit me what’s going on.”
  — Dave Rubin, (03:28)

• Impact of Social Media on Mourning:
  Both Tudor and Dave observe that the period of respectful mourning is extremely brief due to social media pressure:

  “The mourning period is now just crazy because of social media. We immediately start the fighting again.”
  — Dave Rubin, (03:28)

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2. The Reality and Roots of Hatred in Politics

Timestamps: 05:34–11:34

• Experiencing Political Hatred:
  Tudor recounts sitting with political opponents and realizing that ‘hatred’ often dissipates with direct, honest conversation:

  “She looked at me, her jaw hit the table, and she goes, ‘I hated you, but you turned out to be really nice.’”
  — Tudor Dixon, (06:46)

• Charlie Kirk’s Approach to Civil Discourse:
  Dave explains how Charlie “always did it respectfully,” invited opposing views, and prioritized challenging conversations:

  “Charlie and I would debate... we would always do it respectfully. This was Charlie’s idea: for the Q&A, if you disagreed with us, please come up first.”
  — Dave Rubin, (07:37)

• The Power of Narrative and Manipulation:
  Dave discusses how “the machine” labels opponents as evil, contributing to irrational hatred among college-aged protestors:

  “They had been so confused and manipulated by the machine that calls us all Nazis... you could see it in their eyes.”
  — Dave Rubin, (07:37)

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3. Transitioning Perspectives and Building Trust

Timestamps: 11:34–15:12

• Dave’s Shift from the Left:
  Dave recounts his exit from progressive circles, meeting Charlie Kirk, and building mutual trust despite political differences:

  “For Charlie, it was a risk—can he trust this guy who was on the Young Turks?... We were always churning through those things and kind of measuring each other up.”
  — Dave Rubin, (12:21)

• Charlie’s Commitment to Free Speech over Ideological Loyalty:

  “He was still inviting me because I defended free speech. He never once asked me what I was gonna say. He never once said, ‘You should say this.’”
  — Dave Rubin, (12:21)

• Defending Personal Conversations:
  Dave and Tudor criticize people releasing private messages after someone dies for political purposes:

  “Who would release messages from someone after they died, especially for your own political purposes?”
  — Dave Rubin, (16:34)

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4. Faith, Public Life, and the “Big Tent” of Conservatism

Timestamps: 16:34–18:38; 23:06–26:56

• Charlie’s Evangelical Christianity and Inclusion:
  Rubin details Charlie’s ability to advocate for his own faith while rejecting theocracy and welcoming divergent beliefs:

  “Charlie was the one that was welcoming. He was widening the tent... He had a beautiful way of saying, ‘I don’t want America to be a theocracy, so everyone can be part of this.’”
  — Dave Rubin, (16:34)

• Navigating Faith in Politics:
  Dixon and Rubin discuss how expressing faith in politics is now viewed as potentially offensive and risky:

  “If you talk about faith in any way, then you’ve offended someone. I don’t know how to get over that.”
  — Tudor Dixon, (23:49)

• The Power of Example:
  Tudor highlights that true faith is powerfully modeled through actions, especially in marriage and family:

  “That is what young people need to see... that is what, for me as a Christian, I see his faith as this three strand rope... that’s the silver lining.”
  — Tudor Dixon, (24:54)

• Faith’s Effects Beyond Religion:
  Dave tells of a secular Jew now practicing Judaism because of seeing Charlie’s example:

  “That’s the point. And I’m not saying everyone has to practice anything... but the point is there’s something going on here that’s not exactly political.”
  — Dave Rubin, (25:54)

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5. The Surge of Misinformation and The Dark Corners of the Internet

Timestamps: 33:12–39:38

• Influence of Platforms like Twitch, Discord, Reddit:
  Dave shares concern that young minds are especially targeted by political propaganda under the guise of gaming and community:

  “There is a whole other world out there that you and I... we don’t really understand, but our kids are damn well gonna understand that, most likely for the worst... there are crazy things happening there and they’re hijacking the minds of young people.”
  — Dave Rubin, (33:12)

• The Radicalization of Tyler Robinson and Others:
  Both discuss how a seemingly “normal” young person can be deeply affected—by campus trends and especially by online subcultures:

  “We are the last generation that fully remembers the world before the phone... There now is a world... where you can take someone who’s roughly normal and then turn them into a murderer.”
  — Dave Rubin, (37:49)

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6. Antisemitism, Israel, and America’s Foundational Values

Timestamps: 26:56–32:43

• Historical Perseverance of Antisemitism:

  “Before Israel exists, they blame the Jews. Now Israel exists, they blame Israel. So it’s just kind of baked into the thing.”
  — Dave Rubin, (27:57)

• Conspiracy Theories and Victimhood:

  “At the end of every conspiracy theory... there’s the Jew. People want simple answers for everything, and in a world where we view victimhood so highly...”
  — Dave Rubin, (27:57)

• Faith and American Identity:
  Dave roots America’s resilience and openness in its Judeo-Christian foundations:

  “Americans are the most loving, decent, love-your-neighbor, live-differently people that have ever existed because it’s baked into exactly what America was founded upon.”
  — Dave Rubin, (30:56)

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7. Personal Memories and the True Legacy of Charlie Kirk

Timestamps: 40:39–42:32

• Behind-the-Scenes Acts of Kindness:
  Dave shares a story of Charlie Kirk overcoming severe pain to fulfill a commitment for Dave’s book event, refusing payment and prioritizing friendship:

  “He would not even take money. I tried to offer him money for the appearance. He would not even take money.”
  — Dave Rubin, (41:57)

• Goodness Transcending Politics:
  Both note the importance of prioritizing genuine human decency and support in public life, not just ideology:

  “There’s a few other people that are... good people amidst this. Doesn’t matter what the politics are. That you obviously know are good humans. That’s what we need to focus on.”
  — Dave Rubin, (42:32)

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Notable Quotes

• “We immediately start the fighting again. And I’m really, really trying this week not to add to the craziness.” (Dave Rubin, 03:28)
• “The words are very hard to fight. And once you’re explaining, you’re losing.” (Tudor Dixon, 11:34)
• “He genuinely wanted to have that conversation... and by the way, we had to earn trust with each other, too.” (Dave Rubin, 12:21)
• “Charlie was the one that was welcoming. He was widening the tent... the message that particularly young people should hear.” (Dave Rubin, 16:34)
• “If as long as you’re not going to use the power of the state to force people into what you believe... you should [be open to talk].” (Dave Rubin, 23:49)
• “Before Israel exists, they blame the Jews. Now Israel exists, they blame Israel. So it’s just kind of baked into the thing.” (Dave Rubin, 27:57)

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Memorable Moments

• Tudor’s Diner Story: The revelation about genuine dialogue among supposed adversaries (06:46).
• Charlie’s Generosity: Charlie Kirk’s unseen act of kindness to help Dave despite physical pain (41:57).
• Understanding the New Fronts of Radicalization: Dave’s reflections on Twitch and Discord and their impact on Gen Z (33:12).

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Closing Reflection

Dave Rubin and Tudor Dixon provide an introspective and heartfelt take on the legacy of Charlie Kirk, the polarization of American politics, and the challenges of defending free speech and faith in a cynical, digital world. The conversation highlights the need for compassion, the risks of propaganda, and the enduring importance of decency over dogma.

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Transcript

[Tudor Dixon]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Tudor Dixon]

Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I have the host of the Rubin Report with me here today, Dave Rubin. And, Dave, I'm so glad that you're on, because we were just talking before we got on about how heavy things feel right now, and I saw your tribute to Charlie Kirk in the New York Post, and I wanted to say that was beautiful. Very well done.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, thanks. And it's good to see you, Tudor. You know, we're all in this weird spot because if you do something like we do for a living, so you talk about politics or culture or whatever, and you happen to be on the, let's say on the right. You know, we're all in the same world. We all kind of know each other one way or another. You know, whether we're doing it just through the cameras like you and I are doing now, or doing events like I used to do with Charlie at colleges all the time or whatever. And then there's this weird moment where suddenly you feel, wow, this guy that I know my friend is dead. And yet you have to narrate it live. You have to then talk about it on tv. We have to do this. And I feel like actually it wasn't, I said on my show this morning, it wasn't until last night at about 7 o', clock, this is eight days later, that it suddenly, I think, really hit me what's going on here, because I play basketball every Wednesday with this group of guys. And a guy who I don't know particularly well outside of basketball just came up to me and he kind of had glassy eyes and he said, dave, I'm so sorry for your loss. And it was the first. Something about the fact that basketball to me has nothing to do with politics or the rest of it. It suddenly was like, whoa, something really big happened. I know that may sound weird or strange or something, but it's been a really difficult look. It's a horrific, horrific time. Charlie was a father first and a husband, and he was a good man. And he was trying to do whether I agreed with him on everything or not, which I certainly didn't. Although over the years, we definitely came closer as it pertained to our. On things, largely because I moved to his positions. There's a huge loss for America. And as you said to me right before we started, the mourning period is now just crazy because of social media. We immediately start the fighting again. And I'm really, really trying this week not to add to the craziness. I'm probably failing at it every other turn. But it's just on us to try to be a little bit better right now, I think. And thank you for the kind words about the New York Post thing. I did that literally in 10 minutes. They. They said, can you get us to this? Can you get this to us immediately? And it was just like, I just threw it out there. And they said, okay, we're not even going to edit it. Go.

[Tudor Dixon]

So, yeah, well, I think what you're saying about mourning is something I. We've kind of talked about it in the dark corners, and the privacy of home is like, what is it like for the family to be going through this while there's battles on social media? And I. And we went. We went into this all kind of shocked that day. I remember thinking, how did we get to this point where there is a side that hates us so much? How could we possibly. And I felt it. I ran for office. I felt hatred. I really felt hatred. I'll tell you a story. I felt so much hatred that I. When Trump was running, I went to one of the Fox News events where they come to a diner and sit down, and there was a group of Kamala Harris supporters that were protesting, right? But they were sitting there at the diner and they just yell occasionally. And then at the end, I went to walk out and I thought, you know, I should go talk to them because that's the right thing to do. And we. I sat down with them and we talked for probably 45 minutes. And they were trying to get me to vote for Kamala. And I thought, this is really weird that they're just giving me so much time, you know?

[Dave Rubin]

And we.

[Tudor Dixon]

We talked about my position on abortion, and they told me some really powerful stories that made. That honestly gave me a different perspective, and it was a great conversation. And at the end, they said, what. What's your name? And I said, I thought, oh, my gosh, they don't know. And I said, it's tutor. And the one woman, she looked at me, she goes, but not that tutor. And I said, there's a reason I didn't lead with that. And she looked at me, her jaw hit the table, and she goes, I hated you, but you turned out to be really nice. Why can't. But that's what Charlie was doing. He was like, have the conversation. And I've racked my brain. But you would. How do you have the conversation? How do you do that? Because they talked to me, because they didn't know who I was. But we loved each other once we talked.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, it's almost impossible to do what Charlie was doing, which is why he was basically the only one doing it. You know, Years ago, around 2018, when Charlie and I were on tour with Turning Point together, going to these events, that was before we even called it Woke. We were going to college campuses. It was about identity politics and all the weird gender stuff and all that. And everybody. All the criticism that we would get from New York Times and CNN and all these other things was, oh, like, oh, look at them. They're just making fun of college students. You know, they're just going onto college campuses to instigate and inflame and blah, blah, blah. And what we would always try to do there was Charlie and I would debate whatever it might be. So it could be marriage equality or abortion or just whatever the things were that we would debate. We would always do it respectfully and everything else. We would always. And this was Charlie's idea that I've used in every one of my public events since. If you had a for the Q and A, if you disagreed with us, please come up first. We didn't want to just hear people say nice things to us at the end. But what was interesting, because you used the word hate there, and that's what I think people are really focusing on right now, is the protesters that would be outside, the ones that were pulling the fire alarms or threat, you know, calling in bomb threats or throwing things at us or bringing noisemakers to silence us, or they have a laundry list of 20 other things that they do. Like, sometimes I would walk to the campus before and I'd go in a hat and a T shirt. So not in my usual thing, so maybe they wouldn't recognize me or sunglasses. And I kind of get close to the groups. And then I stopped doing it after I got recognized a few times. But hatred is the right word. They had been so confused and manipulated by the machine that calls us all Nazis and all. The worst thing in the world, that you could see it in their eyes. I mean, you really could see it in their eyes. There's a video that your audience can check that. It's on my channel. I did an event with turning point around 2018 at University of New Hampshire, and I was supposed to be. It was supposed to Be me, Charlie Kirk and Candace Owens. And I think it was that day that Kanye tweeted out, I like the way Candace Owens thinks. I know this all feels like a lifetime ago and let's not even go into any of that right now. However, because of that tweet, Candace and Charlie I think went to meet. So they left me to do the event alone. And I go to university in New Hampshire and we were supposed to be on campus, but because there were so many protesters and it was starting to get violent, the campus said, we're not doing it on campus, we'll send you to the local hockey rink. So first, the campus had already conceded defeat, right? Once you say we can't even secure our own campus from our own students, we're going to put it off site. You've already given them a huge win. Then once they did that, that instigated hundreds, if not literally thousands of more protesters to show up to the event. So then I end up doing an event that was supposed to be invite only 500 people. I end up doing it at a hockey rink that was supposed to seat thousands of people. So you know what that feels like. If you're doing an event that's supposed to be a sold out room and now you have thousands of empty seats behind you because they decided to not let any more people in. Then once the good people heard, they wanted to come in, but then they were realizing they couldn't control the crowd or anything else. I mentioned this all to say the level of hatred that was thrown at me that day and it had nothing to do with my own positions. I basically stopped my speech and I kept saying to them, guys, tell me what it is that you think. Why are you protesting me? Really? Try to tell me. And it was just endless insanity that had nothing to do with anything I had said before, but all the usual buzzwords. And this is where I always say you have to give the left credit not for their ideas, not for their ideas or what they have done. You have to give them credit for playing a certain game. And the game they played was, could we break the minds of young people to hopefully over time attain power? And the simple answer to that is yes. So you don't have to, you don't have to like what they did, but you have to respect the game that they played.

[Tudor Dixon]

The words are very hard to fight. And once you're, everybody says once you're explaining, you're losing. And it's true because once they accuse you of something, oh, I didn't do that. Or that isn't true, or that didn't happen. Then you're explaining. And. And I think it's very hard for anybody on the right in a purple area to effectively campaign because they have been so successful. But that was where really Charlie was coming in and easing up a little bit of that, especially in Arizona, I think he was out there quite a bit, easing up on a lot of that. You, when you met him, you were a Democrat. So how did you. What made you go? I'm not. I don't believe in everything he says, but maybe I'm not on that side.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah. Charlie and I met when I was just kind of leaving the left. You know, I was. I was progressive, the whole thing. I was on the Young Turks. Most people know that whole story. And I started seeing the hysteria, what we now all see, very obviously. I just saw it very early because I was in it. And as I was in it, what I realized was, okay, these people seem pretty nutty, and I'm not able to convince the lefties to be liberal in the truest sense. Let me see who else I can talk to. I happened to meet Charlie at an event in West Palm beach within literally 10 minutes. I'm not making this up. He was like, listen, I see we have some disagreements, but let's go on tour together and see what happens. And that's what we did. It was as simple as that. It wasn't. It wasn't. We didn't have to sit down and write a contract. It was literally as simple as that. And what I realized over time was that Charlie genuinely wanted to have that conversation. He genuinely did. And by the way, we had to earn trust with each other, too, because, you know, on one hand, I'm looking at him like, I don't know, can I trust these crazy conservatives? Because I still had probably some PTSD of, like, well, they say all these horrible things about these guys, right? So can I trust them? And for Charlie, it was a risk because, you know, can he trust this guy who was on the Young Turks? So we really had to work that through. And people saw it happen on camera in real time. But Tudor, the truth is, it happened for us as friends as well. It happened over dinners. It happened over sitting with our spouses next to each other at weddings. It happened on long car rides, driving to these places. We were always churning through those things and kind of measuring each other up. And, you know, another thing I can say about Charlie is over the years, I spoke at many of the Turning Point events. And when I really had completely different political views. And he was still inviting me because I defended free speech. He never once asked me what I was gonna say. He never once said, you should say this, never looked at a speech or anything else. As a matter of fact, I don't even remember what year it is anymore. Cuz this all goes by so fast. But when Trump was being impeached the first time, it was right before Christmas. What was that? 2018, 2018, I think. Was that about 2018?

[Tudor Dixon]

It might have been 2017 actually.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah, it's hard to even remember. It all starts becoming one thing. 2017, 2018. I actually was the speaker at Turning Point before Trump. They did not say anything. They didn't say, you have to not say this, that don't say anything about it. He said nothing, nothing, nothing. They just let you do your thing. Cuz that was how strong his respect for free speech was. So look, I just have nothing but respect for the guy. But that is completely secondary to the human part of this that we just keep, we keep glossing by. So to see all these people fighting about his legacy, now releasing text messages, all of these things, like I have text messages from Carly, I would better are applicable like relative to politics and people, I would never release them. Like it's just, it's just the thing.

[Tudor Dixon]

That fascinates me about what you said just now though is that you just explained everything people are fighting about. With regard to Charlie. He was going to give anybody a platform. He wasn't married to a donor, he wasn't married to an ideology he wanted, he was married to free speech. He wanted people to be able to talk. He wasn't going to silence anyone. So I think that's what's stunning about seeing this on multiple levels. Levels. It's souring what we know of Charlie Kirk. And I think that the first few days even I was seeing posts that I'd never seen and even, even in the last day I've seen some really beautiful videos of he and his wife together. And that true love, in a way that you watch it and you go, that's true love. That is something special, that's something that should be shared because young people should see that, that exists, you know. And so as I've seen those videos, I've been. It's drawn me into their story in a way that I wasn't anticipating. And yet you have this ugly noise in the background. And I think it's somewhat stunning because it's people who I watched for years and said, oh, they're Very close friends to his. To him. But yeah, who would ever. Who would ever. And this is not even like a political thing or an ideology thing or a social media thing. It's a human decency thing. Who would release messages from someone after.

[Dave Rubin]

They died, especially for your own political purposes? I mean, that's what's so twisted about this. To then say it's in the name of friendship or something like that is extraordinary. But without, you know, let's not even dive into that because there's just so many fights about that. And I think we can probably do something a little better here. I'll tell you something else about Charlie. Charlie did. Did two things that I think were sort of amazing, and he did them at once. Because everyone can talk about politics, but Charlie talked about faith in politics at the same time. And that's very complex because your faith, your faith in American perspective, we have people of every walk of life, right? We have Christians and Jews and Muslims and atheists and Hindus and everybody else. And most Americans want that. Most Americans want there to be all sorts of people here and everything else. Charlie talked about his faith as a Christian and he talked about his politics at the same time. And I don't know if you saw this video, it's been going viral, it's from a few years ago, but he goes to one of these events and a young. And it's a young guy who seems to be sort of, let's say, radically anti gay, lack of a better term. And Charlie basically lays out what his belief is in faith and then also explains what America is and says, I don't want America to be a theocracy. And Charlie was the one that was welcoming. He was widening the tent. The thing that got Tulsi Gabbard and Bobby Kennedy and Joe Rogan and Elon Musk and me and so many others to side with. Conservatism was because of what Charlie was doing on the ground that then Trump leveled up nationally. So he had a beautiful way of saying, hey, I have a set of beliefs that I think are right for me and my family and I think could scale across the country. But also, I don't want to rule the country as a theocratic leader, so everyone can be part of this. That is so the message that people should. That particularly young people should hear and then think about, right? And that was very hard to do because it's not that from. In a secular world, it's not that easy to talk about those things. So he really did so many things that I think years from now, people will realize how important they were.

[Tudor Dixon]

All right, you want to stick around? Because we've got more coming up with Dave Rubin. But first, let's talk about my partners at IFCJ. It was nearly two years ago that the terrorists murdered 1200 innocent Israelis. They took 250 hostages. And today it seems like you're not even hearing about it. It seems like the cries of those people, they're just being shouted down by these anti Semitic hatred rants. And it's shocking to me. It's almost like this brutal attack on the Jewish people that was the most brutal, brutal attack since the Holocaust. It's almost like it's been forgotten because it feels like the world's looking away. But I want you to know that there is a light that shines in the darkness right now. It is a movement and it is filled with love and support for the people of Israel. You can be involved. It's called Flags of Fellowship and it's organized by the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. On October 5th, it's just a few weeks away, there will be millions of Americans that will prayerfully plant an Israeli flag in honor and in solidarity with the victims of the October 7, 2023 attack and their grieving families. And you can be a part of this. You have to go to the fellowship. To get more information, you can join Flags of Fellowship movement just visit the fellowship [e-mail] it's worth it, you guys. We want you to be a part of it. So please go. It's IFCJ.org now. Stay tuned. We've got more with Dave Rubin after this.

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[Asma Khalid]

Check us [e-mail] America is changing, and so is the world.

[Tristan Redman]

But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. i'm.

[Tristan Redman]

Tristan Redman in London, and this is the Global story.

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Every weekday we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

[Tristan Redman]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Tudor Dixon]

It'S extremely hard. I mean, especially if you are running for office, too. I had times when Christians would look at me and say, don't go out there and say that you're a Christian. Well, but I want you to know who I am. And there weren't many people that would back you up on that. You know, which this, this is her faith. That's part of who she is. Just like Speaker Johnson. But Speaker Johnson doesn't want everybody to be Christian. He wants, he stands for America. Those two things are not separate. But it's very hard to explain that in the political realm where it doesn't offend. Which seems, it seems like we've crossed a new line where if you talk about faith in any way, then you've offended someone. And I don't know how to get over that.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, I think some of that, and maybe this is a silver lining to what has happened here. Some of that does seem like it's scaling back because suddenly I think people do feel that they can speak about it. You know, it's interesting also, Charlie was an evangelical, so he wanted to evangelize about his faith, meaning he might in Charlie's heart. And it's hard to talk about somebody when they're not around anymore, in a sense, but in his heart it's within the evangelical philosophy that he wanted to proselytize his religion, but what he didn't want to do was force anyone to believe in his religion. So Mike Johnson, I would say, is somewhat similar. Mike Johnson may want more people to convert, but he's not going to use the power, I have no evidence, let's say, to say that he wants to use the power of the state to do it. Does he ultimately want every Hindu to convert to Christianity? Like there actually might be a part there. But if as long as you're not going to use the power of the state to force people into what you believe, then you, you should, because otherwise, what can we, what can we only talk about? So we can only talk about the thing that's happening now. That should be the prism that we talk about everything through. That doesn't. Well, look where that got us, actually.

[Tudor Dixon]

And I do think that as I watch what's happened, I think it's beautiful to see all of these videos where he says, this is my experience with Jesus and I want you to know Jesus too. And that's just what I'm saying about it is this is Jesus has given me something great. And you don't even have to hear him talk about Jesus to. Like I said, when I see these videos of he and his wife together, I'm like, that is what young people need to see. That is what for me as a Christian, I see his faith as this three strand rope. You know, I saw it as Erica, Charlie and Jesus together. When I see these videos now, and I'm like, oh man, this is something that I didn't see before. And that to you, to your point of the silver lining. That's the silver lining. I get to see what Jesus looks like in a very strong marriage that was also able to go out and engage with the next generation, which is, as Christians, what we want to do. We want to tell the next generation we love you and we have to.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, the proof is in the pudding. The proof is in the pudding, right? Like that's basically what you're saying, that without having to force anyone to believe anything else. The proof is in the pudding. And what is the pudding? The pudding in this case is, is that when you watch the videos of Charlie and his wife and his kids, you see a good man, right? You're not even with some of the fighting going on around him now, there's very, I don't hear a lot of people outside of like sort of the crazy leftists saying that Charlie was some sort of hypocrite or liar or anything else. Like most people are saying this was a good man. And, you know, I suppose if we had a few more examples of that, that would be good. You know, I saw a piece in the Free Press this morning from someone who was a totally, totally secular, non religious Jew who's now practicing Judaism because of Charlie Kirk practicing Christianity. So that's the point. That's the point. And I'm not saying everybody has to practice anything. Everyone should figure out what their own philosophical and religious beliefs are for themselves and all of those things. But the point is there's something going on here that's not exactly political and we don't really know how to talk about that at a national level yet.

[Tudor Dixon]

I've had a lot of people come to me and ask me why Israel is being attacked in this. And that to me, me is, it's just an interesting contrast because as faith in God is strengthening, you always see an attack. So it's like there is a spiritual warfare out there. We should expect this, this should not surprise us. This is not a political issue. This is so much bigger than that. We, we should know that when Christianity grows, when belief in God grows, and when, when Jewish people become stronger in their faith as well, the enemy, the enemy comes in hard. And I, I'll tell you, it was even last night I was at the hairdresser and the. One of the gals there looked at me and she was like, do you think Israel was behind this? I'm like, my gosh, this is not a, this is not a conservative. This is just a person. And I'm like, the enemy has power. And that's something that, when people are all at each other's throats, it's not. There is a bigger power here. Don't let it take you.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, the crazy, the crazy part, of course, of all of this, first off, we know who the shooter is. We know who the. Like, there's not a question Here it's not as if there's someone on the run and we don't know what happened here. We basically have an admission. And we also have information now from the parents about the evolution of Tyler Robinson and all of that. Look, as for the crazy conspiracy theorists and everything else, I mean, I think you just said it quite well, like we should expect this. The set of people who have been saying the craziest possible things, really, I would say, for the last two years, to the backdrop of October 7th. Well, yes, they're using this to say more crazy things. And this is the nature of the Internet, where you can drag people down endless rabbit holes and everything else. And at the end of every conspiracy theory, as my friend Gad Saad talks about, there's the Jew. Look, they did this all before the state of Israel, right? That's why, in essence, that's why the modern state of Israel exists. Before Israel exists, they blame the Jews. Now Israel exists, they blame Israel. So it's just kind of baked into the thing. And actually, I had Rabbi David Wolpe on my show. We're gonna put it up on Monday, and I asked him about this. Is this just baked into the story of the Jews? And he said while he wouldn't like to believe that in some sense, that there probably are historical and philosophical reasons for that. And I think the simplest explanation is people want simple answers for everything. They want simple answers for everything. And especially in a world where we view victimhood so highly, and apparently people on the right do it as well. It's very easy for us to show the people on the left door. You know, if you take a minority group that has been pogrommed and holocausted and all of these things over time, and somehow they're still here and they're still successful, and they still largely maintain family and the things that most of us think are important. It doesn't quite fit the calculator. It doesn't quite fit the calculator. But I'd much rather stand up and be hated than live on my knees and be loved.

[Tudor Dixon]

That is such a good point. I've told this story a lot of times, but we years ago, we interviewed Holocaust survivors, and I sat with. With this one couple. They had both been in concentration camps. And the husband talked the whole time. The wife said nothing, almost to the point where it was uncomfortable. I'm like, am I insulting you? You know, what is happening? And she had a very stern look on her face. And they were both very old, obviously. And then because they'd been in the Holocaust and they were. She was sitting in a chair, she couldn't get up and walk anymore. And as I said goodbye and as I walked out, she very forcefully grabbed my arm and it was the first time she'd even moved. So it was quite shocking. You. And she looked at me with a lot of anger. But it was such a. I. Now I look back at it, it's like this was a warning from God because she looked at me and she said they hate the Jews and they'll do it again. And in my. And this was probably five years ago. Well, no, it was, would have been like seven years ago. And in my naivete I remember thinking, well no, we aren't like that anymore.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, I don't look, at the end of the day, I don't think the warning is probably correct. And I certainly wouldn't gloss over a warning of someone that has lived through that. I do think from an American perspective we are so much better than this. And I think this has been, this is actually a very niche thing that unfortunately because of algorithms and I would say some very, let's say confused. I'm trying to be nice here, I guess confused influencers. It feels like it has scaled crazy and it is upsetting. You know, you go to a hairdresser and then hear something like that. So that it does. So some of it does leak into reality. But I would say by and large, from an American perspective, Americans are the most loving, decent, love your neighbor, live differently people that have ever existed because it's baked into exactly what America was founded upon. I mean there is no country that welcome people from every corner of the earth like America has. So all of us have a history of there's a reason that your ancestors came here. There's a reason that my ancestors came here. And so I do think there are some better self defenses within that. And actually I would say that the people that are really going off about this stuff, and it's even a shame we've had to spend this much time talking about it, they're actually fundamentally attacking America in the end. Yes, they're fundamentally attacking our ability. We are, whether they like it or not, founded on Judeo Christian values. If they want to try to figure out how to separate thousands of years of history between Jerusalem and Rome, they can go ahead and do it. But that's just the fact. And when you go and say those people did this and those are the source of all your problems, you're attacking the fundamental underpinnings of what America is everyone's got a shot here and it's up to you to figure out what to do with your life and pursue happiness. I think that's in a document somewhere.

[Tudor Dixon]

Yeah, that's true. Yes, that's true. I mean, they're effective propagandists, but it is propaganda. There's one more thing that I want to ask you about, and I feel kind of silly asking you about this because I don't know anything about it, but I saw it on your Twitter page and I was like, what does he mean by this? Twitch?

[Dave Rubin]

Whatever I say on there, that shouldn't be held to a court of law. Yeah, what about Twitch?

[Tudor Dixon]

You indicated that this is like a dangerous place and I don't know anything about it.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, I don't know a tremendous amount about Twitch, but there's all these other places where it's a lot of gamers. Mostly it's people that are live streaming games, but then they're talking through the game. So you're watching someone play Fortnite or whatever it is, and they're talking through all this stuff and they get a huge amount of 14, 15 year old, usually boys watching this stuff, and then they start spewing in political propaganda within that. So, you know, we think it's just, oh, CNN's lying and New York Times is lying, or, okay, some idiot on YouTube saying this. But there is a whole other world out there that you and I of a certain age, as Gen Xers, we had nothing to do with it, came way after us and we don't really understand, but our kids are damn well gonna understand that most likely for the worst. And I would say between Twitch and a lot of what's going on at Reddit and there's a few of these other places, these are like the underbelly of the Internet, places where they're grabbing young minds. Discord as well, which also I think basically started as a community for gamers. There is something going on there that needs to be looked at because there are crazy, crazy things happening there and they're hijacking the minds of young people.

[Tudor Dixon]

Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tudor Dixon Podcast.

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[Asma Khalid]

Changing, and so is the world.

[Tristan Redman]

But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. i'm.

[Tristan Redman]

Tristan Redman in London, and this is the Global story.

[Asma Khalid]

Every weekday we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

[Tristan Redman]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Tudor Dixon]

I feel like we are not allowed to talk about Tyler Robinson as a person and that scares me because he was someone's child and he is someone's child. This somehow happened that his mind, his parents certainly weren't saying this to him. So when I saw that post, that's what I thought. Okay, you're telling us that there's something dark happening here. And I wanted to talk about it because I don't know about it. And I think a lot of people that listen to this podcast are probably my age and maybe, you know, a little younger, a little older, but have kids around my.

[Dave Rubin]

How old are you? Am I allowed to ask how old you are?

[Tudor Dixon]

I'm 48.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah, so. I'm 49. So. Okay. I thought. Yeah, I figured we were, like, close enough. Yeah. But that's the point. We did not. We are the last. Gen X is the last generation that fully remembers the world before the phone. We are the last ones. We are the ones that came home from school and I would get on my bike with all my buddies and we would disappear till dinner time, and it was fine. And that's the way it was supposed to be. They literally would put PSAs on television. It's 10 o'. Clock. Do you know where your kids are? Cause parents didn't know. But it wasn't bad. It was because the world was better. That's the thing. So, yes, there now is a world. We think Tyler Robinson's a good example. By all accounts, he came from a solid family that had decent values. We're not hearing anything crazy about the family, parents, married, all of those things. Goes to college. The easy version is, oh, he just got radicalized in a year and a half at college. Now, that's probably true to some extent. There probably was some level of that going on at the school, probably. But then you have to think a year and a half, you take someone who's roughly normal, for lack of a better term, and then turn them into a murderer. And the crazy part is, if you read the text between him and the trans roommate or lover or whatever it was, you know, he's saying, I'm gonna do this for you, my love, in essence. But it's like, what were you really thinking there? If you had only thought for a split second longer, your life is now over because you're gonna either die by firing squad or end up in prison for the rest of your life. The trans guy, his life is. His functioning life is over because this is his defining moment that he'll never get over. So you didn't save anything. But that's the level of craziness that they can get wrapped up into between education system that lies to them, mainstream media that lies. And then this other part, this underbelly of the Internet stuff that I. I just. I'm not even that privy to it, but we just know it's there.

[Tudor Dixon]

I know I've, I, I mean, I've had people in my life who actually, in the last few weeks, I've really been paying attention to. Even my mom will come to me and she'll be like, oh my gosh, did you see that the Detroit Lions gave a million dollars to Erica Kirk? And I'm like, no, mom, that's not true. You know, it's, there is so much information out there that's just fake that she's getting caught up in these LA LA stories. And I think kids can get caught up in the dark stories. And that's why I just wanted to share it. I saw it and I said, these are things I don't know. And I also, I sometimes think we're too quick to say we refuse to talk about the shooter because we can't prevent it if we don'. Learn why it happened and see, make sure other kids aren't going through this because this is dark. Like you said, if you think through this, this is not a good idea. So how did he get there? And I appreciate you going there with me because I wanted to talk about that. So thank you. Thank you for sharing your stories about Charlie. Is there anything that we don't know that is a behind the scenes story that you can share?

[Dave Rubin]

Well, just real quick, I'll tell you one thing that I have mentioned. I think I put it up on Twitter when I was opening or when I was doing my last book tour a couple years ago. We were in Arizona and that's where turning in Phoenix. And I said, charlie, could you open for me? He was in crippling back pain. You know, Charlie was really tall. He was about 6 foot 5 and he had a lot of back stuff. He was a great basketball player when he was a kid, which I just found out now. I just saw some videos. He was a great player. Anyway, he had really, really bad back pain. He said, dave, I will try, but I don't even know that I can literally get in a car to get there. So about an hour before the show, we didn't know if he was going to be there. So Blake Masters, who was running for Senate at the time, he, he was kind of the backup at the time in case Charlie couldn't do it. Charlie shows up a few minutes before the show. He literally was laying in the green room on the floor. That's how much pain he was in. Couldn't even. I have a picture. I'll send it to you. I have a picture of him trying to sit on the couch. And he couldn't even sit on the couch. He was laying on the floor. You could see how uncomfortable he is. Anyway, he goes up, he does about 10 minutes, opens for me, and then he says, dave, listen. And the audience was so happy to see him. And that's his home area there. Like, he wanted to stay for the meet and greet and everything. And he was in just crippling pain. And he said, dave, I'm so sorry, but I gotta get going. He did a great job. And he would not even take money. I tried to offer him money for the appearance. He would not even take money. And that was.

[Tudor Dixon]

Charlie, that is a good. And for anybody listening who is like, what does he mean by take money? Everybody tries to get money in this business. And when you see someone who doesn't. I will just plug Clay for a minute, because Clay Travis, we have a big event coming up this weekend in on Mackinac island, and we were desperate for a headliner, and I called him and I was like, I need a favor. And we're like, really broke. We need your help. And he was like, I got you. And that just tells you so much about who people are when they go. I'm there for you when you need me. So I appreciate you sharing that.

[Dave Rubin]

You know, it's funny, I'm not a fan of lists because it's usually the communists and the Marxists that love lists, but, like, Clay and you and there's a few other people that are. That are on my sort of mental list of that are just good people amidst this. Like, it doesn't matter what the politics are that are. That you obviously know are good humans. And that's what we have to kind of focus on right now as we watch some of the other craziness.

[Tudor Dixon]

Yeah. Well, I so enjoyed having you because you are a breath of fresh air. Dave Rubin, thank you so much for being on today.

[Dave Rubin]

It's good to see you, Tudor.

[Tudor Dixon]

Absolutely. And thank you all for joining us. Remember, you can find us anywhere. You get your podcasts, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or watch it on Rumble and YouTube. Uterdix. Listen and join us the next time. Have a blessed day.

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[Asma Khalid]

Check us [e-mail] America is changing and so is the world.

[Tristan Redman]

But what's happening in America isn't just the cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, DC.

[Tristan Redman]

I'm Tristan Redman in London, and this is the Global Story.

[Asma Khalid]

Every weekday we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

[Tristan Redman]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

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