The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Elizabeth Smart on Survival, Faith, and Healing After Trauma

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Tudor Dixon Podcast – Elizabeth Smart on Survival, Faith, and Healing After Trauma

Host: Tudor Dixon
Guest: Elizabeth Smart
Date: April 10, 2026
Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show / iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth interview with Elizabeth Smart, child abduction survivor, activist, and author. Tudor Dixon and Elizabeth discuss Elizabeth’s abduction at age 14, her survival strategies, deep faith, and journey of healing after trauma. The conversation also touches on how her experience influenced her family, her advocacy for victims, and her latest memoir, "Detours."

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Life, Abduction, and Survival

• Elizabeth’s Abduction (02:41–04:12):

  • At age 14, Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped from her bedroom.
  • Audience remembered this national news story, hoping for her safe return.
  • "I never imagined this would be my life. I obviously never imagined I would be kidnapped either...but it’s given me so much purpose." (Elizabeth Smart, 03:46)

• Family and Faith as Foundation (04:12–06:00):

  • Elizabeth credits her family as her motivator to survive.
  • She explains the lack of education and open conversation about sexual abuse at the time: "Nobody talked about the difference between enthusiastic consent versus abuse versus rape. In my mind, it was all very much the same thing." (Elizabeth Smart, 05:38)
  • The only thing she was sure of was her family’s acceptance and love if she ever returned: "If nobody else accepted me but my family did, that would be worth surviving for." (Elizabeth Smart, 06:48)

2. Moments of Crisis, Faith, and Psychological Manipulation

• Hearing Searchers While In Captivity (07:09–09:54):

  • Recounting the moment when she heard her own family members searching for her while her captors threatened violence if she responded.
  • "If you yell back, if anyone enters this campsite, they'll be killed and it'll be your fault because you called out." (Elizabeth Smart, 08:26)
  • Elizabeth’s instinct to protect loved ones, even above her own well-being, was powerful at only 14.

• Practicing Gratitude Amidst Trauma (09:54–13:49):

  • Survival hinged on faith and gratitude, especially during moments of deprivation.
  • Even in captivity, she performed the ritual of listing things she was thankful for.
  • "Any situation I found myself in, I would try to think of things that would make that situation worse. Because then I could be grateful that it wasn’t that bad." (Elizabeth Smart, 13:12)

• Moments of Desperation and Miraculous Survival (13:49–16:34):

  • Describes a drought in California when she nearly died of dehydration until rain unexpectedly arrived.
  • "It did absolutely seem like a gift from God...We would have died without it. It seemed like an answer to prayer." (Elizabeth Smart, 15:44)

3. Returning Home and Dealing with Family Fallout

• Family, Media, and the Dangers of Denial (19:48–23:13):

  • Tudor discusses the ordeal for Elizabeth’s family and the suspicion her parents faced as part of the investigation.
  • Elizabeth stresses the importance of recognizing that such crimes can happen to anyone: "That mindset is very dangerous...We need to be having a lot of conversations and...safety information." (Elizabeth Smart, 21:25)

• Parental Support and Perspective Change (23:13–26:14):

  • Initially, Elizabeth thought her pain eclipsed her family’s; as a parent now, she recognizes her parents’ suffering and has greater compassion for them.
  • "Now, as a parent...there just isn’t anything that I wouldn’t do to protect my children from what I went through." (Elizabeth Smart, 25:40)

4. Captivity Details, Rescue, and the Power of Community

• Breakthrough that Led to Rescue (27:09–31:56):

  • Elizabeth’s sister helped identify her abductor, but police hesitated until a family friend, John Walsh, publicized a police sketch on national TV.
  • The sketch prompted tips that directly led to Elizabeth’s rescue.

• Elizabeth’s Ingenuity in Manipulating Her Captors (30:05–31:56):

  • She learned to communicate within her captors’ false belief systems to stay safe and maneuver situations to her advantage.
  • "Had we remained in California...I don’t know if I was found, I think it would have been much later." (Elizabeth Smart, 30:33)

5. Healing, Faith, and the Next Chapter

• Major Family Changes Post-Rescue (33:55–37:55):

  • Elizabeth recounts her parents’ divorce and her father’s coming out as gay and leaving the church.
  • This profound upheaval required a new phase of healing and acceptance.
  • "My whole life, [my dad]’s been the one that’s like—let’s go to church...They always stressed the importance of faith—my entire life. And so...I just—it was a shock." (Elizabeth Smart, 36:54)

• Continuing Journey and Writing "Detours" (41:42–48:46):

  • New memoir, "Detours," describes her ongoing process of healing after trauma.
  • Unlike previous books focused on the kidnapping, "Detours" addresses healing as a journey, comparing life’s difficulties to road detours.
  • "If anything, this book is meant to be a friend...I’m hoping this book provides hope that everyone can heal and that everyone can find their way forward." (Elizabeth Smart, 44:19)
  • Elizabeth emphasizes universal compassion, noting that each person’s pain is unique and valid: "We’ve all only experienced our own worst trauma...We can feel empathy, but never exactly what they felt." (Elizabeth Smart, 46:51)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Role of Family:
  "Ultimately I felt like if nobody else accepted me but my family did, that would be worth surviving for."
  — Elizabeth Smart (06:48)

• On Faith in Crisis:
  "I will never make it back home if I just keep thinking that this is the worst. So...I would try to think of things that would make that situation worse. Because then I could be grateful that it wasn’t that bad."
  — Elizabeth Smart (13:12)

• On Denial & Safety:
  "That mindset is very dangerous because it stops us from having conversations—important conversations—about safety."
  — Elizabeth Smart (21:25)

• On Empathy After Trauma:
  "We’ve all only experienced our own worst trauma...So I think it is so important to have compassion and understanding and grace for everyone around us."
  — Elizabeth Smart (46:51)

• On Healing:
  "This book is meant to be a friend...Everyone’s healing journey is going to be different and you need to find what works for you."
  — Elizabeth Smart (44:19)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Elizabeth’s Introduction and Survival Motivation: 03:46–06:48
• Family’s Role in Her Survival: 05:38–06:48
• Faith and Gratitude in Captivity: 09:54–13:12
• Miraculous Survival in California Drought: 14:45–15:55
• On Talking About Abuse and Safety Education: 21:21–23:13
• Rescue and Power of Community/Media: 27:09–31:56
• Parents’ Divorce and Family Change: 33:55–37:55
• Healing After Trauma and New Memoir: 41:42–48:46

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Final Reflections

Elizabeth Smart’s interview is a moving testimony to faith, resilience, and the enduring love of family in overcoming unthinkable hardship. She urges open conversations about abuse and acceptance, and offers a compassionate guiding hand for survivors of all kinds of trauma. Her new memoir, "Detours," serves as both companion and guide for anyone on the path of healing.

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For more on Elizabeth Smart’s story and healing journey:

• Book: "Detours" (available via ElizabethSmart.com and Amazon)
• [Podcast available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Rumble, and YouTube]

Transcript

[Elizabeth Smart]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

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[Tudor Dixon]

the Tudor Dixon Podcast. You probably all remember the story of Elizabeth Smart. You remember the story of her being taken from her bed in the middle of the night in 2002. I think we were all stuck by the TVs, hoping that this beautiful little girl would be returned home and yet believing that nothing could possibly be, that you couldn't possibly see her again in this world. And yet we did. And now I get the pleasure of speaking with this incredible survivor today. Elizabeth Smart. Welcome to the podcast.

[Elizabeth Smart]

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[Tudor Dixon]

Absolutely. I. Like I said, we all watched your story, of course, and you have spoken out. I've been so impressed with the way that you have spoken out since the abduction and the fact that you work so hard for people who have experienced sexual abuse or abduction and any type of exploitation. Like I said, you truly are an inspiration to us.

[Elizabeth Smart]

Oh, thank you very much. I mean, I never imagined this would be my life. I obviously never imagined I would be kidnapped either. But looking back, I'm not sorry that it happened to me because it's given me so much purpose and passion in my life that I would like to think I would have had. But truthfully, I. I don't think I would have had otherwise.

[Tudor Dixon]

You know, there's. There's always something special about you, though. It. As I was watching your Amazon documentary, I was watching through and. And you talk about your experience and obviously we see kind of a reenactment of what happened with your abductors and your kidnappers. And something struck me in that. And that is the strength of your faith at 14. I told you before we got on this podcast, my middle daughter is 14. So I have 16, 14 and two 12 year old daughters. And I. So of course, as I watch this and read your book, I think of my girls and I think about what they would go through and how they act today. And you were so strong at that age. And it struck me as I was watching your documentary that you were saying, you know, people would ask me why I wouldn't have run. And it seemed like that was kind of a theme throughout. The entire, like, retelling of the story is almost that you were trying to say, you know, you have to understand what it's like. I looked at that story and I was like, what, what intelligence and calm for you to do what you did and be looking for that, that moment when you could escape. And knowing that your family was still there, like your family seemed to be a strong foundation for you throughout the whole thing.

[Elizabeth Smart]

Absolutely. My family was the one thing I felt like I could rely on because I didn't, you know, sexual violence, abuse, rape, it was not talked about when I was a kid, at least not in any of the conversations I ever had. None of the lessons I ever listened to growing up, it was just something that was not talked about. And there was very much a sense of shame around it. You know, when you like went to maturation or when you first learned what sex was in school. Nobody talked about the difference between enthusiastic consent versus abuse versus rape. And so in my mind it was all very much the same thing. And I. So when I would think about the possibility of being rescued, I didn't know how people would respond to me. I didn't know if I would be accepted back into polite society or if I would be kind of cast out or just be on the outside kind of like a pariah. And I, yeah, I just didn't know how I was going to be treated. But the one thing that I really believed and felt and knew in my heart was that my family would accept me. And ultimately I felt like if nobody else accepted me but my family did, that would be worth surviving for.

[Tudor Dixon]

There's a moment in the documentary where you, you are out so, so that people know when they took you. He took you in the middle of the night, he took you from your house, but you weren't far from your house. You were out in the woods. They were camping. They kept you out there camping. There was a one night when you were outside and you heard people yelling your name, what was that like? Was that like, oh gosh, they're still

[Elizabeth Smart]

looking like mileage wise, I wasn't that far. I was less than four miles, I think I was about three and a half miles from my home. But it was incredibly difficult to get to. I mean, I hiked back there recently with my brother and sister in law and like as an adult now who I would say, not that I was in bad shape back then, I, you know, I was a kid, I ran around all the time. But like someone who's like run marathons now and works out every day, it was a struggle to get back there. It's very, very difficult to get back there. So it wasn't just like a little walk in the park. But yes, I, and at the time I actually, I think I was so pumped full of adrenaline and fear, I didn't realize exactly how far or near I was in correlation to my actual home. And I remember hearing my uncle's voice or what I thought was my uncle's voice. And I remember just being hopeful that I would be found. I remember being scared that he would come into camp and then he would be killed because my captor was right there and he was pulling out his knife and he was like, do you recognize this knife? And I mean, of course I recognized it had a held to my throat. And then he turned to me and he was like, if you yell back if anyone enters this campsite, they'll be killed and it'll be your fault because you called out. And so as now as an adult looking back, I have so much compassion for myself because I was a child. Of course, I didn't have like, the logic or the. I don't know the.

[Tudor Dixon]

I don't know many adults that would be able to yell out in that situation though, either. I mean, even at this point in my life, I think I'm so protective of the people that I love that I would rather see myself hurt than watch someone hurt someone I love.

[Elizabeth Smart]

Absolutely. I feel the same way. And I felt that as a. As a kid, I felt like I had to protect my family. I felt like I had to protect my uncle. I felt like I had to protect anyone who might possibly find the camp because I didn't want to be responsible for anyone's death.

[Tudor Dixon]

And that's so much on a young child. And I think that's what people need to remember is that you were 14 years old. Your faith. That to me was what struck me so hard. There's a point when you talk about it. It was Thanksgiving. You were. You were starving most of the time. I mean, there was. This was such a madman. There's no food, there was no water. He would leave the camp and leave you with his wife, who was. Sounds like not only horrible to you, but had been horrible her whole life. So she. These were genuinely nasty, horrible devil. I mean, evil demon people that were. That had taken you. And he would talk about him coming back and saying, oh, there's a Thanksgiving dinner and we can go get this Thanksgiving dinner. And I was so impressed because we are told in the Bible to be thankful in all things. And I oftentimes think, you know, even through the hardest times, like, look at the good. Look at the good that God has provided to me. But I am in a adult and I think about, what would my kids have I set my kids up for? If there is some tragic situation that they're able to see God and what God has given them through that. And you, you did. I mean, you said that night, just like every Thanksgiving, I went through all the things that I'm thankful for, and then I did that every night between then and Christmas and went through all the things you were thankful for. That was the most mature attitude and the most. The. The strongest foundation in faith that I could. I've ever seen in modern day. I was so impressed.

[Elizabeth Smart]

Well, initially, when I was first kidnapped, I remember thinking. I mean, I remember thinking that first day that this was the worst. This was rock bottom. Nothing could be worse than what I was experiencing in that moment. But then day two came, and I was forced to go naked all day, and that seemed worse. And I remember in that day thinking, this is the worse. Nothing could possibly be worse than this. And then the next day came, and he was like, you need to learn how to properly make love to your husband. So you're gonna watch Wanda and I have sex, and then you're gonna have to perform. And that seemed like the absolute worst. And it was just like continually hitting these new lows of horribleness, of nightmares. And every time that this new low would happen, I mean, it was just like a new level of devastation. And it was just. I was just sinking deeper and deeper and deeper into just hopelessness. And I just remember feeling like I can't give up. I am still 30 plus years younger than them. I mean, just logically, I will outlive them. I mean, should they not kill me? Should I, you know, should I not starve to death? Should the elements not take me out? Um, I should still outlive them. And if I outlive them, I would like to make it back home. But I will never make it back home if I just keep thinking that this is the worst. So kind of ear, from early on, any situation I found myself in, I would try to think of things that would make that situation worse. Because then I could be grateful that it wasn't that bad. I could be grateful for whatever the situation was, and that. That helped me.

[Tudor Dixon]

It's such a lesson, no matter what. I mean, no matter what hardship you're going through, is to constantly look toward what. What good can come. What good can come. And that idea that you can be. You could be back with your family one day.

[Elizabeth Smart]

There had to have been.

[Tudor Dixon]

I mean, you were gone for nine months, so there had to have been a point when you started to go. I don't know. I don't know if I Can ever. If I can ever get back there. And what does life look like with them? There were moments where you really didn't know if you'd live through the night. There was one I want to bring up. You're in California, and it's a drought. It seems like there's no water. You were constantly searching for water. You didn't have enough to drink. It was. It was horrible. And he leaves. He gets put in prison or jail, I guess, for. For a week. And. And you and Wanda are there, and you say that you thought that might be the end, that you. That was the one time when you said, maybe I'm not. I've been looking so forward to seeing my family again, but I'm so thirsty. I'm so hungry. This might not happen. And then there's a rain. And you gave that glory to God in that moment.

[Elizabeth Smart]

I. I remember. I mean, I've been asked so many times over the years in that situation, couldn't you have just run away? Wasn't that, like, the perfect situation to run away? But I was so dehydrated and just so weak from not eating that I remember standing up and just feeling like I was gonna pass out. I mean, both Wanda Barzee and I were just lying on the ground because we just did not have the energy to stand up and move around. And I absolutely remember just feeling like this is the end. I mean, I can't believe I have survived this long. I guess about that point, it was. It was about eight months. I had survived eight months only to die of starvation and dehydration. I remember just almost laughing about it because it just seemed. The irony of it just just seemed so pathetic. And I remember then it did start raining, and it did absolutely seem like a gift from God because, I mean, we would. I think we would have died without it. It seemed like an answer to blessing, to answer to prayer. And I. I mean, I remember running outside and we stretched tarps to catch as much water as we possibly could. And I remember. I mean, just the water tasting so good. And then even the next couple of days, we have. We'd been able to pour the water into these gallon containers. But I also remember eventually looked like. I mean, things were. Looked like they were growing in the water. But even then, I mean, I was just grateful for something to drink.

[Tudor Dixon]

Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tudor Dixon Podcast.

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[Tudor Dixon]

It's such a stark difference, obviously, from how you grew up. You had a beautiful home, a beautiful, strong family. That's. To me, that's a worst nightmare scenario for your family. I mean, for you, but also the trauma that your entire family goes through. Your sister was in bed with you, and there's a lot of pressure on her during this time that you're gone. Like, who was it? Can you tell us? And it was a God moment that she remembered, too. And suddenly that name came back to her. But I think about your parents from the outside as we are watching this, and I know many people have told you this from the outside. You see the media narrative start to take hold. It's like, oh, the father must be involved. There must be something weird happening. It's just such a bizarre scenario that someone would come into your house and take you out of your bed. You know, it's so hard. And there was so little evidence of what happened, and it was so hard for the country to wrap their minds around. And I think the reason it was so hard was because none of us want that to ever happen. So it couldn't happen. You know, it's easier to say it couldn't happen than to admit that it did happen. What was that like coming back home? They were obviously. I mean, as parents, they must have felt so many emotions of failure and shame and just brokenness, and you kind of have to rebuild each other. But you're 14 or 15 when you got home, right?

[Elizabeth Smart]

Yeah, yeah, I was 15 when I got home.

[Tudor Dixon]

What was that like?

[Elizabeth Smart]

Well, there's so many things you just said that I want to respond to. I mean, number one, you kind of describe this mindset that this was so terrible, you don't want to think that it can happen to you. And I actually think that is a very dangerous mindset because it stops us from having conversations that. That are important to have. I mean, the national average that we know of, that our cases reported, it's about one in five women are sexually abused. In Utah, where I live, it's even worse. It's about one in three women are sexually abused in their lifetime. And honestly, I think it's much higher in both the national average and Utah. These are just the cases that are reported because we know so many don't go reported. And these are These are very important conversations to be had. I mean, this is very important safety information to be had. We. Sorry. Not to go down a rabbit hole, but just to give an example.

[Tudor Dixon]

No, I think this is important. This is what, like I said, I do think that we like to say it's impossible because we don't want it to have to happen to us. And then we are unprepared.

[Elizabeth Smart]

Exactly. And we have so much safety education, which I think is great. I'm a fan of all safety education. But just to give you an example, everybody knows what you should do if you catch on fire. Stop, Drop and rol. And I don't know the exact statistic. Like, I've been lazily looking and I haven't found an exact statistic. But as I've gone out and spoken, I'll usually ask people to raise their hand in the audience if they've ever used Stop, Drop and Roll. And there might be an audience of two or 300. And maybe one person will raise their hand.

[Tudor Dixon]

Maybe two.

[Elizabeth Smart]

Maybe two people will raise their hand. It is not a lot of people.

[Tudor Dixon]

But we all know it.

[Elizabeth Smart]

But we all know it. And then I don't ask because I feel like I don't want anyone to feel like they need to share something they're not ready to share. I don't want anyone to look at anyone else differently or anything. I don't want to put anyone in a sensitive situation. But I could ask how many of you have been sexually abused? And I feel like would see at least a third of the room raise their hand. And yet we really don't talk about these issues. So this is. That mindset is very dangerous. For this reason, we need to be having a lot of conversations and then kind of continuing on with your question. It is, unfortunately, it is the norm that when a child goes missing, it typically is the parents or someone very close to the family. It is really more of the exception that it's a stranger. And so as heartbreaking and as difficult as it is, my parents were the. They. They. It was not unreasonable for the police to look at my parents. And since that time, I mean, anytime my dad has ever spoken to a family who has had a child kidnapped, he will always say, just cooperate with the police. They are going to look at you. You go in for whatever questioning, whatever lie detector test that you need to go in for so that the focus can remain on finding your child and bringing your child home. So that, I mean, as difficult and miserable as that is, that is kind of that first line. Of. Of questioning. And, I mean, at the time when I was rescued, I remember just being flabbergasted that anyone could think it was my. My family, that it could be my parents or my brothers. I mean, that just seems so ridiculous to me, because my family had never hurt me, My dad had never hurt me. My brothers hurt me. I mean, they teased me like we were normal siblings, but, like, they'd never abused me or, like, threatened me or anything like that. So that just seems so ridiculous to me when I got home. And now as a parent myself, you know, when I first got home, I thought, well, come on, you guys were the lucky ones. Like, you were together. You weren't stuck on this mountainside with these monsters. Me, I was by myself. You did not have it as bad as what I experienced. But now, as a parent myself and looking at my children, I mean, there just isn't anything that I wouldn't do to protect my children or to prevent them from being hurt or. Or from going through what I went through. I mean, I would go through it again in a heartbeat if it meant that my children never had to go through it. And so now, as a parent myself, I have so much more compassion for my own parents and what they went through while I was gone.

[Tudor Dixon]

Is she out of prison now, Wanda?

[Elizabeth Smart]

She is, yeah.

[Tudor Dixon]

Has she ever tried to reach out to you?

[Elizabeth Smart]

No. And I'm okay with never talking to

[Tudor Dixon]

her again, I would imagine. Yeah, I would never want to either. She had. She had a history of abuse before that, so she's obviously a dangerous person, very mentally ill, and I don't even want to give her that excuse because I think it's just so. It was so incredibly evil what they did. So you came home and you reconnected with your family. Did you know. Did you have any idea? Like, had you a sense that things were coming close or. I mean, you had no access to the news or anything? How did they finally. How did they finally know where you were?

[Elizabeth Smart]

Well, my. So my captor, Brian Mitchell, he would go down into Salt Lake, and when he'd come back, sometimes he would bring newspapers or he even brought back a missing flyer once of me. And he would say things like, oh, all of Salt Lake is looking for you. The whole world is looking for you, but no one will ever find you, because I have you. And I would say that just added to this sense of this feeling that he was invincible and this feeling that maybe I wouldn't escape, maybe I wouldn't be rescued, because he just seemed to get away with everything that. That he wanted, he could do anything, and he was never getting caught. He was never getting stopped. And so my sister had that moment where she's like, I know who did it. She told my dad. My dad told the police. The police really didn't think it was this Emmanuel. That was the name that Brian Mitchell went by at the time. And they were stuck on this other person that they thought this Richard Reese, who had done some work for my parents, and he actually ended up dying in prison. And the police were like, oh, you know, the secret of Elizabeth's disappearance has. Has gone to his grave with him. We'll never find her. But my dad was insistent that, you know, Mary Catherine says, it's this other guy, like, we need to look into him. And they were like, oh, we don't really think so. My dad's like, let me do, like, bring in a sketch artist. Let me at least try to tell you what he looks like. Let's just try. They brought in a sketch artist. My dad had a sketch, like, did a sketch of him. And the police were just like, don't release this. You know, we'll. We'll look into it. We'll consider it. Well, my dad was good friends with John Walsh at the time from America's Most Wanted. He called John up and was like, mary Catherine thinks she knows who it is. We had. We went down to the police station. They did a. They did a sketch of him. We have this sketch of him. And John was just like, you have to go public with it. You have to follow absolutely every lead that you can find. Never give up. And actually, it was John Walsh that ended up releasing that sketch on Larry King Live. And when that sketch was released and the name Emmanuel, one of Brian Mitchell's family members actually saw it and called the police and said, I think I know who you're looking for. And that is what led to my rescue. And. Because then they started looking for Brian Mitchell, and people recognized him. When we eventually made it back to Utah and I was rescued, and you

[Tudor Dixon]

made it back to Utah because you had kind of figured out their language, their way of communication, and their belief system. And their belief system was this, like, false prophet I. I hear from the Lord. And you were. To me, this is so impressive at your young age that you were able to use that and kind of use psychology against him. Say, you know, this is you. You should go back to Utah. Had you not gone back to Utah, do you think you would have been found?

[Elizabeth Smart]

I don't know. I don't know if I would have been found, because towards the. I mean, the last month, the last, I don't know, five weeks that we were in California, I was not allowed to go out into civilization, the general population anymore. He was just keeping me hidden up in the mountains there. And so I think he was feeling more wary, even though I don't think he knew that his sketch had been released. I don't think he knew any of that. I just think he was feeling more wary. Plus, he had also tried to kidnap another young girl at that time because he had this whole plan that he was gonna kidnap young girls. And I was just the first. And he had actually attempted it, and he had not been successful, but I think it had kind of shooken him a bit. And so he. He was just keeping me out of sight. And so had we remained in California, do I think I would have been found? I don't know. I don't know if I. If I was found, I don't think it would have. I think it would have been much later. I think it would have been a much better, longer time period that I was held captive for.

[Tudor Dixon]

There were. And. And maybe. And you don't know if you would have lived through that because you were. You had had some experiences where you were so close to starvation and dehydration and. And these experiences that you had where God just provided in a moment when you felt like you were just overwhelmed at the last moment of. Of your ability to. To hang on. And the rain was one. There was another time when there had been no water and you woke up to a full cup of water sleeping, which you said was just absolutely impossible. And I do believe that God sustains you and has a plan for you. And your plan is to talk about this and to encourage people. And the way you speak about it is so impressive to me that you are able to say we all. We all go through different trauma. You don't really discriminate against trauma, which I think is amazing because I think you've been through one of the worst. And yet you're so welcoming to everybody who feels as though, like, I've gone through something really hard. You talked about this with a friend, and she said, but your heart is so much harder than my heart. And I love how you were like, no, everybody has to go through things and we have to come back out of those things. And you're just such a welcoming leader of people who have gone through hard in life. But one of the things that you said, I just want to get into really quickly. One of the things that you said was that you didn't think that. That you would ever be able to survive your parents breaking up, because your family had been kind of that rock that you. The example that the people who gave you faith, the rock that you were waiting to get back to, and then you. You came back, and they were the ones who helped to build you back up. But your father called you one morning, which also is just kind of interesting timing because of what you'd been through in the wee hours of the morning in your life to get a call that was a pretty devastating call. What was that like?

[Elizabeth Smart]

Like, I mean, when I first saw his phone number pop up, I thought my mom was in the hospital. I thought something had happened. I thought. I mean, I would say any early morning phone call. Now, these days, I'm like, what happened? Like, who's in trouble? Who is hurt? So I definitely had that thought in my mind, and then I answered it. And, I mean, it was just like, word vomit. My dad couldn't get the words out quick enough. And that's when he told me that he and my mom were getting a divorce, that he was gay. And none of these things. I mean, like, you know, I'd seen my parents disagree, but then I'd always turn around and, you know, seen them get past their disagreements, holding hands. You know, I'd seen them kissing. Like, they. To me, they just seem like a normal couple. You know, you have your disagreements, you work through, and then, you know, you move on. And so I didn't ever think. Think that there was really any real chance of them divorcing. And I certainly certainly never had a clue that my dad was gay. I mean, I remember. I rem. I. I remember just thinking I'd misheard. And I remember saying, wait, wait, can you say that again? But, I mean, I think that was such a. Like, he was so anxious about how the phone call was gonna go. He just ke. And I think he was probably full of adrenaline at that time, probably really scared of my reaction. And I just remember in that moment being like. I'm not even sure how to respond. But no matter what, he's still my dad, and I still love him. And that was really the gist of the phone call.

[Tudor Dixon]

How old were you at that point?

[Elizabeth Smart]

Point I was. I mean, that was about seven years ago, so I was 31. I mean, I just had my. My last baby. My last baby was a month old. I mean, yeah, I guess it was literally this time seven years ago.

[Tudor Dixon]

That's A lot to think about because you knew in that moment that this was bigger than just your parents splitting up. This was, your dad was also going to have to leave the church. And that seemed to be a huge part of your life. I mean, you went on a mission for the church. You've, you', the churches. The church is what's guided you. It seems like forever.

[Elizabeth Smart]

I mean, it certainly was a huge part of my life. And yeah, it felt like, just like a bomb going off. I mean, having all three of those things, you know, my dad saying he's divorced, my mom, my dad saying he was gay, my dad saying he was leaving the church. I was just like, oh my gosh,

[Tudor Dixon]

what?

[Elizabeth Smart]

Like, my whole life, like you've been the one that's like, okay, like, we need to go to church. Like, oh no, it's Saturday. Let's, you know, I signed us up to go clean the church to go prepare the chapel for Sunday. Like, you know, like, oh, it's the church's fun run. Or it's like the church's Memorial Day breakfast. Or like he was very much, I mean, both my parents were just very heavily involved and they always stress the importance of faith. My entire, my entire childhood, my, my entire life. And so it, it was, yeah, I, I just, it was, I. A shock.

[Tudor Dixon]

But your family is still very close.

[Elizabeth Smart]

You know, our family has changed. I mean, how could you not change? And holidays are different and birthdays are different and it's, it's been an interesting navigation.

[Tudor Dixon]

Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tudor Dixon podcast.

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[Tudor Dixon]

You have been put through major trials and yet you have have taken them and turned them into something incredible. And you go out and you speak and you encourage and you are a light. I mean and and some people will say that they can see a light around people and I really do feel like you have that light of the Lord shining through you and and you had to to overcome this. But you still you continue to go out and talk. You have a memoir coming out. I want to talk to people about that. Tell us about your book. And you have another movie coming out on Netflix which I am anxious to watch and I want to tell you that I am so impressed with your story. I mean as I'm listening to you talk I'm getting chills because I can just feel the power of your spirit. It is so strong and I want my girls to know your story because it is what we would say is some of the lowest parts of life. And yet I am so impressed with who you are even through that. So tell us a little bit about the documentary and tell us about the book.

[Elizabeth Smart]

Okay, so this is my new book, and it's different. I. So this is my third book, and it's different from my others because my first book really was the story of what happened. My second book, I took the questions that I was most asked, and then I went out and I found other people that I really admired, and I got their answers and tried to write a book around these questions and the answers of other people. So even if people didn't connect with me, they would connect with someone else who I'd interviewed. And then this last book, Detours, that is coming out on December 16, is really more about my healing journey and kind of the rest stops or steps along the way. And I called it Detours because I think there are so many comparisons about life is a highway or life is a journey, or, you know, like, life is your. Like a path through the world. There's so many comparisons like that. And I was just thinking we all have these moments in our lives where we go through something and it seems to throw that road off course, and you just can't imagine how you're going to get through it. So I talk about these different rest stops along the way of how I got through it. And I mean, if anything, this book is meant to be a friend. It's meant to be. Be just a help. It's not meant to say, well, you needed to do this, or if you do all these things, you'll be better in six months because everyone's healing journey is going to be different and you need to find what works for you. But it's. But I'm hoping that this book provides hope that everyone can heal and that everyone can find their way forward. And, you know, probably the first step or the first rest stop along the way is knowing that it's okay to grieve the path that you feel lost to you. So, for example, you know, with my parents, divorce, grieving, the fact that my family would never be the same, that the holidays would never be the same, that to some extent my family would always feel incomplete because either my mom would be missing or my dad would be missing. And that was something that was very sad to me. I mean, my parents had been my foundation my whole life. And if I ever felt like I wasn't strong enough or if I was ever struggling, they were the first people I called. And so just realizing that it was going to be different, that was something that was very sad. And even to this day, you know, when there are special events, there's still a. An element of sadness because it's just different. And there have absolutely been times where I'm like, this all would have just been easier if they had never divorced, or this would just be easier if they were still together. But I also recognize that that wouldn't have been healthy for either one of them. Their. Their split was something that needed to happen, but it doesn't make it. As their child, it doesn't make it. It any easier for me.

[Tudor Dixon]

I love the fact that you say, life is like a journey on a road, and we have these detours. Your detours are major detours, and yet we all have them. You are so right. It's something that we sometimes struggle to look at. I remember sitting at a Bible study with a group of women, and we were young, and we were talking about the fact that this would happen, and the Bible tells us this will happen. And there were some in the group who said, I don't want it to ever happen to me, and I don't want to hear that. And I remember at the time, I had just lost a baby, and I thought I didn't want it to happen to me. They're like, you don't get. You don't get a choice. And I think that is the strong message of this book. And I would love to see it in book clubs, I would love to see it in schools. Because what you said about having never learned about rape, having never learned about these things, I don't think many people want to hear the ugly. And yet we will go through it without a guide. And this book is preparing you or helping you through whether you have gone through something hard or not. The way the book talks to you, it's written to talk to you as well. That's what I kind of love about it, is that I feel like we're having a conversation. As I'm reading the book. You're like, are you still with me? And that was so creative. And so, I mean, enticing, because we do all go through hard. There's no avoiding hard. You've been through some of the most hard, and yet you're walking alongside of all of us just like a character right out of the Bible, just like an Esther, which is so impressive. I mean, I see his footsteps alongside you your entire journey, and that's so inspiring for me and for everybody else who is looking to say who is leading me, and that's the Lord.

[Elizabeth Smart]

I. I mean, we've all only experienced our own worst trauma. We've all only experienced our own worst sadness. And each one of us knows how bad that feels. And, and no matter what we've experienced, we can feel compassion, we can feel empathy, we can feel understanding for the people around us, but we will never feel what they have felt. We will never feel exactly their, their emotions. And so I think it is so important to have compassion and understanding and, and grace for everyone around us because I've never met someone who hasn't had a bad day. Day. I've never met someone who hasn't gone through something. And you know, maybe as you're younger, maybe it's just the heartache of a breakup or maybe it's just the disappointment of doing poorly on a test. I mean, it doesn't always have to be big, huge traumatic things, but we've all felt pain and sometimes we think we can never come back from it. And as much as I would love to walk beside, I mean physically walk beside everybody, I mean, I am just one person and I don't know everything. I mean, I'm still trying to figure out life and how to be the best person that I can be. And so I feel like this book really just tries to help, just tries to give what I've learned.

[Tudor Dixon]

It's great. It's absolutely great. It would be a great Christmas present for people who have anybody in their life that has, has gone through trauma. But honestly, it is just a friend. It's a, it is a guide. It's for anybody who loves reading and loves to hear about life and, and you take us on a lot of detours, but it is amazing. So it's detours. And tell us where, where people can get it.

[Elizabeth Smart]

So you can get it from ElizabethSmart.com you can order it directly from my website. You can order it off of Amazon. Those are both great places to order it.

[Tudor Dixon]

Thank you so much. Elizabeth Smart, you are an amazing woman. I am so impressed with you. I will never forget your story and hearing it, but you hear the story and you never oftentimes when this happens, you don't get to see the follow up. And you are amazing. So thank you for what you do every day.

[Elizabeth Smart]

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

[Tudor Dixon]

Absolutely. And thank you all for joining us on the Tudor Dixon podcast. As you know, for this episode and others, you can get it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And you can always watch it on Rumble or YouTube tutor Dixon. Join us next time and have a blessed day.

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[Elizabeth Smart]

Jess from Planetary Design. We make coffee gear for outdoor outdoor adventurers. Amazon helps me reach customers all across the country who are headed to the backcountry shop. Small business on Amazon.