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The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Inside the Nancy Guthrie Case with James Fitzgerald
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- [00:00]
Tudor Dixon
This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human.
- [00:04]
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This Sunday, iHeartradio brings you live to Levi's Stadium in Santa Clara for the Super Bowl 60 tailgate concert presented by NetApp. It's the ultimate pre game party featuring an exclusive performance from Teddy Swims. Your front row experience will be on iHeartradio stations across the country and the free iHeartradio app this Sunday at 3:30 Eastern, 12:30 Pacific. Then after the concert, tune in to the super bowl pregame show on NBC.
- [00:36]
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Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosure is available at public.com disclosure.
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- [02:03]
James R. Fitzgerald
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Tudor Dixon
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- [02:20]
Tudor Dixon
Per month when network is busy see terms. Welcome to the Tutor Dixon podcast. Today we are going to take a deep dive into the case of Savannah Guthrie's mother who's been abducted. As you likely heard on the news, Nancy Guthrie was taken from her home on Saturday night. It's a very weird case. She's an 84 year old woman in poor physical condition. But we've heard she's in great mental shape. So it's not as though this is just a case of mom wandering away. She's the mother of a TV celebrity, but police can't say right now if it was targeted. But the other weird thing about this case is that her house is covered in cameras and they were all either smashed or they're missing. So it to me seems like someone knew her house, someone had some foreknowledge of the home. But we thought we should bring an expert in. So I want to break it down with someone that we have that's very special here. He is a retired FBI supervisory special agent and criminal profiler, James Fitzgerald. He's best known for cracking the case of the Unabomber. Thank you so much for joining me today.
- [03:25]
James R. Fitzgerald
You're welcome. Tutor. Good to be here.
- [03:27]
Tudor Dixon
So as we break down what you know of this case, I mean, your history is incredible. You have, you've cracked cases that are very similar to this one. What is your take on? We're getting very little out of these press conferences, but I'm assuming that's because they have information that they don't necessarily want to release to the public just yet.
- [03:50]
James R. Fitzgerald
Yeah, and I've been doing media hits on this since Monday. And it's obviously it's evolved somewhat the case itself, but not a whole lot at the same time. To law enforcement's credit, they're keeping things pretty tight to the vest. There's been a leak here or there. I'm not sure they've been substantiated. I don't tend to deal with leaks. I tend to deal with what law enforcement's actually stating. Trying to read between those lines and of course, using my own experience to then put together the puzzle pieces where we are. So this is clearly at this point, an abduction. The question is, and abductions fall under two categories, for profit or for revenge. And so far we don't know which one of those categories. This abduction occurred for what reason it was done. It was clearly mission oriented on the part of the abductor or abductors plural. They knew what they were doing. There was pre planning to this whether days, weeks or months that we don't know. As I've said earlier, when this case is finally resolved, it's going to be someone known to the Guthrie family, or at least Mrs. Guthrie. It could be a direct relationship, it could be a tangential relationship, even a, you know, a friend of a friend of a friend that somehow found out, hey, this woman lives by herself in this, you know, house secluded by bushes and trees on a dark, lonely street. And oh yeah, her daughter's, you know, a millionaire because, you know, she's a TV host. So. But having said that part, the for profit notion here, these types of kidnappings are very, very rare in the U.S. i mean, I can count on one hand the ones I worked as an FBI agent. They're directly or indirectly. There was the Exxon executive in 1992 in North Jersey who was kidnapped and he died in the middle of everything, put in a box in the pine woods of New Jersey. But the kidnappers, a husband and wife team, still tried to get money from the family, from Exxon, et cetera. A year later in New York City, there was Tuxedo company owner Harvey Weinstein, not the same one we talk about sometimes, but he was kidnapped and kept in a box alongside railroad tracks in the Bronx for about two weeks. And then he was freed and those people were arrested. You know, Patty Hearst was a political thing. Daniel Pearl was political. He's a New York Times, I'm sorry, Wall Street Journal reporter. So these are very rare because the money is tough to transfer. So if that's what we have here, it's the rarest of the rare types of crimes in the U.S. but let me add here, they're relatively common in Mexico, Central America and South America. Football players, soccer players, celebrities, their parents or loved ones are kidnapped more often than even the media tells us about. And the authorities have to handle it accordingly. So tutor to sum up here, we don't know exactly what we have yet, but they're working on the assumption someone has her, perhaps for profit. And that's why the emotional plea went out yesterday from the family.
- [07:08]
Tudor Dixon
So what is your take on the fact that there's this potential ransom note? Because that's obviously why we're questioning whether someone is looking for money, because there were a few notes that were sent to different networks, not actually Savannah Guthrie's network, which is interesting. It went to tmz. I think it went to a local CBS affiliate. But this note came out like a Day or two after she was abducted. Is that normal?
- [07:37]
James R. Fitzgerald
There's not much.
- [07:37]
Tudor Dixon
Obviously, none of this is normal, but.
- [07:39]
James R. Fitzgerald
Right, I know what you're saying. In the confines of a kidnapping, is that normal? I'll never forget in January of 2002, working the Daniel Pearl case. He's a Wall Street Journal reporter, of course. He was eventually beheaded in Pakistan by the terrorist. But about 40 emails were sent out with his picture in them with a gun held to his head in chains. None went to the wall. I always found it interesting back then. And that was legitimate kidnapping. Again, political, not for profit terrorism. So the fact that this. These letters, one or more, we don't know. And you know why they went to other media outlets than NBC. Who knows if they're legit or not. And besides being a profiler, I'm also a forensic linguist. I use language to help resolve the Unabomb case and hundreds of others since then. And I'm hoping the FBI or someone in federal government has a forensic linguist looking at these letters, the content of them. First of all, let's compare them to see if it's the same author. A qualified and experienced linguist can do that. And who knows if they're handwritten, if they're computer generated, cut and paste, whatever they may be. But a linguist could be able to tell if in fact they're the same person. And if it's multiple letters, only one of them is probably going to be legitimate, not all of them, especially if it looks like there are different authors involved. So there are sick people out there that would of course take advantage of something like this. Not necessarily even to really hope to get the money. There may be some trying to do that one or more, but some just to muck up the system. It's how their brains operate. They're not protesting on the streets. Sometimes we see them doing this stuff. So I think what law enforcement and the family decided is we have to err on the side of caution and meaning that someone has our mother, someone has Mrs. Guthrie, and the question is if she is still alive. We're willing to talk to you. We're willing to make a deal somehow. Now, to their credit, they did put out. They want a proof of life. In so many words, they said that. And where AI can. You know, again, so many words, images can be manipulated. So we want the real thing. I'm glad that was put in there. And of course, they had some guid how to put this statement together by no doubt, my colleagues, my former colleagues in the behavioral analysis unit, perhaps lawyers and certainly the local sheriff's department. So they're erring on the side of caution if anyone out there does have her in their custody for whatever reason, and they think, oh, that's not why we took her, but maybe we can make a quick buck out of this. Sure, let's talk. And that's what the family is hoping to get back. Either it's preplanned and they wanted money all along, or these people are just moving along, you know, one step at a time. Maybe not even sure what they're doing at this point, but taking a shot with these letters now, which may or may not be authentic.
- [10:44]
Tudor Dixon
So we obviously have seen that. What you're referring to when you talk about the family asking for proof of life, for if, on the off chance that you haven't seen it, is that Savannah and her sister and brother did a video they posted on an Instagram. They asked. They. It was. It was kind of a multilayered video. They kind of explained who mom is. They said, you know, we're willing to talk if you are wanting to talk to us. If there is a deal on the table for her life, we are willing to talk. And then they both. Both she and her sister talk. Talk about her or talk to her directly so that they can make it, in my opinion. But I'm not the expert. You're the expert. It is so that you see her as a mom, because Savannah calls her mommy, which to me is very powerful. Everybody has a mommy. She is vulnerable. That's who I need in my life. Her sister refers to her as mama. They talk directly to her. Very moving. I mean, a very moving video. But, you know, the background of that. This was, I assume, based on the wording that they have in that letter, of how they responded is. Do you think that's correct?
- [11:58]
James R. Fitzgerald
Yeah. And the word I use and what I would always relate to people in this situation in. In kidnapping, missing children, whatever it may have been over the years, you're not sure if they're kidnapped or not. But humanize the person, and it could be a father, it could be a grandmother, could be a little kid. Humanize them. Call them by their name. In this case, though, they only use the name Nancy once, if I counted correctly. But it was mom, mommy, mama. Different references there. That's fine. Everyone at some point has a mother, certainly in their early life, and they're hoping to somehow bond in some sort of language or communicative style that, look, this is our mother. It could be your mother. Please take care of her. And yes, we want to talk. I found it interesting that there was almost sort of a pragmatic versus an abstract delineation to the message, with Savannah being more the pragmatic one, of course, loving and saying all the right words about her mother. But the more abstract version was Annie, who I believe is a poet of some sort. And she sort of waxed poetic in what she had to say about her mother's the light and the beacon. And it brings great joy to their life. All legitimate, you know, verbiage. I'm not questioning at all them saying it, but it seems like they went, you know, sort of the direct and indirect pragmatic, abstract viewpoint there. The older. I think it's the older brother. He said very few words at the end, but he still did put it out there. I worked the D.C. sniper case. I was very much involved in that, in the language, involved. And we eventually determined it was two people on our profile. And they instructed Chief Moose, who was running it, the task force at the time out of Montgomery County, Maryland, to put certain words out to the public, including we. It's like we have a duck in a noose. It sounds nonsensical, but if you go back to those old press conferences, Chief Moose actually said that because the killers wanted him to do so. So I always ask myself, has there been some communication, the ones Tudor we've already referred to here, or is there some other one that no one knows about? Maybe it came right to the family. Maybe it came right to the police. And they're keeping that, again, close to the vest. And they said, you have to put these words specifically out there. I noticed, too, the brother wearing a baseball hat. I couldn't embiggen the picture to use that word, to see what the logo was on front. Was that a message of some sort? Does a baseball hat mean something will happen Saturday? Does Savannah sitting in front mean something happens on Friday? Could these have been very specific instructions? I'm not locked into this at all, but I'm aware of cases in the past, even going back to the Lindbergh kidnapping in the early 1930s. No, I wasn't born then, but I read enough about it that they had him do certain sort of machinations to, in fact, you know, pay off the ransom, which he eventually did. And, of course, the baby was dead all along. So, yeah, there's a lot of control and exploitation involved in a legitimate, quote, unquote, kidnapping for profit. We're not talking parental custody here or some, you know, sexual sadist looking to do something with usually younger people. But if this is strictly a for profit kidnapping, again very rare in the us but they will want to make sure they have the control elements in place for the family. And some of what has been said, even the way they were sitting in front of the camera, potentially even what one or more people were wearing could have played a factor in sending some sort of a subliminal, subliminal or subconscious message to the persons involved in the abduction.
- [15:53]
Tudor Dixon
Hmm, that's interesting. As I was watching it, I was wondering, do they have her kind of sitting in front of the other two siblings because she's the well known figure and that would be like I'm talking directly to you. I mean that crossed my mind. Why the, why are they sitting the way they are sitting? And it was just the children and not the spouses and it just, it was definitely interesting. Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tudor Dixon podcast.
- [16:22]
iHeartRadio Announcer
This Sunday, iHeartRadio brings you live to Levi's Stadium in Santa Clara for the Super Bowl 60 tailgate concert presented by NetApp. It's the ultimate pre game party featuring an exclusive performance from Teddy Swims. Your front row experience will be on iHeartradio stations across the country and the free iHeartradio app is Sunday at 3:30 Eastern, turn 12:30 Pacific. Then after the concert, tune in to the Super Bowl 60 pregame show on NBC.
- [16:54]
Public Investing Sponsor
Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available@public.com Disclosures have you ever.
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- [18:57]
Tudor Dixon
Let me ask you in your experience when you see something like this, I mean we've heard that the scene seemed violent, there was blood spattered on the ground. Obviously they're, they're going to look at the blood splatters and see if this is the her DNA, if there's some other DNA there. She also is, she requires medication. She has to take it every 24 hours to survive. Also, the last pacemaker sink was in the middle of the night that night. Now I don't know the significance of that, but based on your experience and she's 84, what are the chances that she is still alive?
- [19:39]
James R. Fitzgerald
Yeah, I've been asked this a few times and I you know, as a lead if not investigator, certainly profiler, behavioralist, forensic linguist in the few of these types of cases we've worked and even helping international in some of these cases and it's not always a kidnapping or abduction but someone who's going to keep killing if you don't do this, that or the other. You have to look at all these factors and see where it takes you. But it's just what does it mean that how well planned were these abductors for this kidnapping? Did they realize that she was on these meds and they would need these meds to stay alive? Are they so sophisticated and I'm not a acknowledging it's a legitimate for profit kidnapping but if they are sophisticated enough that they have a source for types of medications, some doctor on standby, even a veterinarian And I'm thinking it could be on this side of the border, the US side could be on the Mexican side of the border in which this would be taking place. And hopefully Mrs. Guthrie is, you know, is cogent enough. It sounds like she is, but from whatever injury she suffered that she can say, hey, you know, I'm going to die if I don't get these meds. And somehow they would get them for them, get them for her. Not from the house, of course. They missed that opportunity. So this seems sophisticated. You mentioned the smash cameras. In the old days, they'd unscrew light bulbs before cameras so it has less visibility. But this house, this really was a perfect storm, if you will, the perfect place to kidnap someone. It's so dark and isolated. There's no street lights, apparently. Even if the houses have these cameras, it seems like there's shrubbery and bushes all around and it wouldn't really capture much. I'm not sure what the red light cameras are in the area or plate recognition software, facial recognition software in that area of Tucson. So maybe these people knew something in advance and they knew the inside of the house. She was probably bloodied just enough, and I hate to even put it this way, about an 84 year old woman, but she was. She was hit or assaulted just enough to render her compliant, to be taken out to a car or a van somehow. Seems the blood drops, the blood spatter stopped at some point and then perhaps it was grabbed. They picked her up and the blood just dripped down on herself, whatever she was wearing. So other people can look at those more closely and determine directionality, what have you. So, yeah, they. They. She obviously didn't come of her own free will. She had to be hit, punched in the mouth, something. And as. That's why I said there was probably more than one abductor, One could probably get away with this with a. With a woman of this age and, And. And. And physical frailty. But ideally you'd want to. Certainly to drive the car away when she may be kicking. And while you're putting her in the back, you know, hatch or whatever it is.
- [22:42]
Tudor Dixon
What if you're looking, if you were on this case, if you were looking at this, what is the first thing you do? I mean, obviously we've heard there have been rumors. Well, was it somebody in the family? Do you look. I mean, and I'm not by any means saying that I think it was someone in the family, but is that the first place you look?
- [22:59]
James R. Fitzgerald
Tutor. One of the first things I learned as a profiler in our 12 weeks of training. Then we went out and started working cases. Unabom was my first case as a profiler. But there's a concept known as victimology. And it's very important to study serial offenders and the bad guys, the killers, the rapists, and get to know everything about them. But you also want to know about your victim. What kind of victim do you have? And it's not about discrediting them or denigrating them, but what was their lifestyle? You know, a sex worker in a bad neighborhood, she's a high risk victim. And bad things are more likely to happen to her than, we'll say, Mrs. Guthrie, a suburban soccer mom who makes a wrong turn in a car and goes into some neighborhood in which she's not accustomed. Maybe high crime, she's a low risk victim that, you know, geographically becomes high risk because she's wrong place, wrong time. So we look at victimology. What kind of woman was Mrs. Guthrie in this regard? Is she the type someone knocked on door, rang the doorbell, just opened it up. Whether she knew them or not, or like even through the glass, oh, my car broke down. A little woman standing there, could you please let me use your phone? And that door opens and they go get her. Now, we don't know that's what happened here. I believe, I understand there's some kind of forced entry on the house, but we want to know all these things about her. So to extrapolate on that tutor to what you said, Every single person in which she's been in contact for the last several years, if not her lifetime, have to be interviewed, and they should be interviewed separately. I'm sure the police first sat down noonish on that Sunday. And. And the husband, you know, Annie and her husband were there and they talked to them. I'm hoping at some point. I'm not casting aspersions here, but they separated them and talked, interviewed them separately. And make sure everything lines up, up. We'll say it did so far. But everyone who's ever visited Mrs. Guthrie's house, you know, h vac people, postal service people, commercial delivery people, anyone who goes there for medical reasons, Anyone, any kind of nurses, cleaning people, whoever. And they may not be the kidnappers, the abductors, but do they know someone and. And doing. And getting names of people with whom they've been talking over the last few weeks? Few. That's who could have come in. The friend of a friend who heard about this rich woman's elderly mother living in the middle of nowhere, as we described before and said, let's take advantage of this. I would be very surprised, greatly surprised, if when this case is resolved, it doesn't have some connection to the house. I don't even say family at this point, but certainly to the house in terms of someone who's been inside there. And either there they're involved in the kidnapping or they know the person who did whether, and that information was passed along intentionally or, or unintentionally, and then bad things happened. At 2 o' clock last Sunday morning.
- [26:06]
Tudor Dixon
You brought up that this is something that is much more common in other countries. And Mexico was one of those. This is a border state. She's not that far from the border. There was discussion that she had had people working in her house recently. Obviously you just said that those people would be interviewed, but also she has people that work regularly house as well. So could it be that this is something that is coming from a different country?
- [26:32]
James R. Fitzgerald
Oh, absolutely, it could be. And again, I'm not locking into that yet. There's plenty of bad guys born in this country, born and raised here in the U.S. but with the proximity to another country about 65 miles away, Mexico, in which these kidnappings happen often, that certainly can't be ruled out. And all the border crossings, you know, that night, you know, from 3 o', clock, you know, 4 o' clock on, you know, have to be carefully examined and, and determine what could have happened from there. I'm also, if I, I believe I heard this right, the reward is at $2,500. That is couch change for, I'm sure, Savannah Guthrie.
- [27:19]
Tudor Dixon
Yeah, that's weird. I hadn't heard that.
- [27:21]
James R. Fitzgerald
That, and I, you would think some kind of reward would put out there, be, be put out there in that regard. And maybe there's a tactical reason they're not doing that. I, I, I don't know. And it may have to do with, well, I say tactical, but more of a strategic reason. They're not doing that because of some communication they ostensibly have with someone kidnapping. But I mean, $2,500 is like the normal fee that, you know, the state or county would put, or I should say reward. So maybe at some point some other press conference would be where a hundred thousand, five hundred thousand is offered, which probably could be afforded. And, but then who knows what the, if it is a kidnapping, what the financial demands would be, amount would be in that regard and whether it would be bitcoin or not, which I think is the reference in, in these letters. I would say this too. Ever since the Unibom case. I was the first proponent on the Unibom task force to publish the manifesto. I had people argue against me. I wrote that in my fourth book, or that was my third book actually. My role in the Unibom case. And like the movie 12 Angry Men, we finally switched everyone around. Yes, let's get it published. New York Times agreed and Washington Post published it in September of 95. In the next few days, if they still have questions about these letters, I'd say publish them. They can keep the bottom or the top singular. Don't put out there. So for copycat purposes if there's some code word or something. But I've worked a number of cases over the years. You publish these types of letters by law enforcement, you may get someone recognize the writing style and I don't mean loops and whirls of the penmanship, I mean the content. As a linguist would look at indicators of sex, gender, age, nationality, native English speaker or not. All kinds of factors can be determined which could help then just narrow the suspect pool even a little bit.
- [29:22]
Tudor Dixon
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tudor Dixon podcast.
- [29:28]
iHeartRadio Announcer
This Sunday, iHeartRadio brings you live to Levi's Stadium in Santa Clara for the Super Bowl 60 tailgate concert presented by NetApp. It's the ultimate pre game party for featuring an exclusive performance from Teddy Swims. Your front row experience will be on iHeartradio stations across the country and the free iHeartradio app this Sunday at 3:30 Eastern, 12:30 Pacific. Then after the concert, tune in to the Super Bowl 60 pregame show on NBC.
- [30:00]
Public Investing Sponsor
Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite potential possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures want to score when your favorite player does well, you can't unless you download Better Picks who's giving away a free $10 download the better pick more or less on your favorite player stats, watch the games and win some cash. It's that simple. Must be 21 or older in a jurisdiction where Better Picks operates. Terms and Conditions Play Better Picks Sports.
- [31:15]
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- [31:40]
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- [31:47]
Tudor Dixon
So when you say that's how because you said you used language to get to the Unabomber, which you know first, the average person's like, well, how do you do that? That's what you're looking for is something that all of the the way we write and the things we say tell a lot more about us than we oh, absolutely.
- [32:06]
James R. Fitzgerald
And I cover this a lot in my third and fourth book once I picked up on that, and I had a master's in psychology when I was a profiler. But then I went back and got a second master's in linguistics at Georgetown University. So I I am a linguistic a forensic linguist. Yeah. We all have what's known as an idiolect, and that is a personal dialect, and it's reflected in how we speak, but also how we write. And this could be a whole different podcast. We do tutor perhaps sometime, but but yeah, there's a lot of clues within language that we every day as we speak, a linguist may hear me and say, oh, that guy's from the Philadelphia area. Which is true. Born and raised. And I still have some dialect features of that More professional speakers I haven't quite picked up where you grew up tutor, but I've been doing most of the talking here, so but a good linguist can sit down and do that and pick up necessarily where they're from. And that also is reflective in written language, so lexical choices and what have you. So I'm out here Saying one or more of these letters, be they real or bogus, are going to solve this case. But if there's no other leads going on, I think at some point it wouldn't hurt law enforcement to consider releasing them. They can keep one part of it, you know, to themselves. So we always know, you know, that only belongs to the real person who sent this. But maybe someone out there would recognize the writing style as the brother of the Unabomber eventually did. Then we had to build the case after that because hundreds of people were telling us they recognized denies the writing back then. But it took us putting our team together to actually pick Ted Kaczynski as the one and only writer of the 14 Unabomb documents. Maybe someone could do that here.
- [33:52]
Tudor Dixon
Lastly, I guess I'll ask how long do you think something like this takes? Obviously everybody wants to know, well, when can we find her? When we can we find the answers. But is this something that. That can last years or is this something that you think will be wrapped up pretty quickly?
- [34:10]
James R. Fitzgerald
Yeah, and I thought about this. I think you're the first one to ask me in the media how long. But if there's. If there's not a confirmation of a kidnapping meaning a return on service that the abductors wanting something and it may not be money, could be someone released from prison. So maybe this then goes into political sphere or some other political rationale involved. That's a long shot. These are usually done for money. When they happen in the US to this degree, they're usually for money. If we don't hear something in the next few days, maybe we can start ruling out that this is a for profit kidnapping. Unless they really have a great degree of delayed gratification. Because the longer they hold this woman, the more can go wrong on multiple way. They can get caught, they can get arrested. Something bad could happen to her the longer it goes on. I don't know the logic in keeping her around if money's not involved. So I can't give an answer. I would say I'll just throw out in the next 72 hours if there's not a confirmed notification for some sort of a ransom payment. I would take an investigative speculative guess that it then this is not a kidnapping for profit. It was done for some other reason. And that's when the revenge or avenge motive has to be brought in. What did the. The woman herself? Unlikely. 84 years of age, low risk victim, but some family member, even Savannah. Something she said on the air. I'm sure people are going through everything she's said, tweeted X, you know, whatever in the last year and see what they could possibly call as controversial. Nothing of which I am aware. But that's all being combed over right now.
- [36:08]
Tudor Dixon
Wow. Well, I know we are all praying for Savannah and her family. I honestly, I. I can't imagine how hard this is on her right now because I'm sure everything you just said is what's going through her mind right now is, did I say something? Was there someone I interviewed? Did I. Was I on the wrong side? Some issue? Because that's what we do when we. I mean, she's on more of an opinion show. So it's what we do when we're on tv. We talk, we tell people stories, we take sides. Maybe someone didn't like a side she took. And that's a lot of pressure. So we are definitely praying for her. Before I do let you go, I want to ask you about your book series. You talked about a couple of your books. It's called A Journey to the center of the Mind. Tell us a little bit about that. That.
- [36:53]
James R. Fitzgerald
Oh, thanks for asking. Tutor. Yeah, I just had stories I would tell my kids and other people and they said you should put that in writing. So in retirement, I sat down and I was going to write one book and I wound up compartmentalizing them into four. So they're all titled A Journey to the center of the Mind. And I give credit to Jules Verne and Ted Nugent for borrowing from Journey to the center of the Earth and Journey to the center of the Mind of so Song by the Amboy Dukes back in the day. And the first book's about growing up in philly in the 60s, being taught by nuns and going off to Penn State University that ends with me at the Pennsylvania State police academy. Book two is all about my years as a Ben Salem, Pennsylvania police officer, then being recruited to the FBI. Book three is my first seven years in New York in the FBI with a long 200 page chapter about Unabomb at the end of book three and book four, the Olympic bombings in 78 and JonBenet Ramsey case, and the homicide of a good friend of mine still unsolved 28 years ago. I just put some reward money up for that, working with Philly pd, a bunch of other cases into retirement. So, yeah, there it's ebooks, audiobooks, regular paperback books go on my website, JamesR Fitzgerald.com, contact me through there. Be glad to sell off signed copies depending on people.
- [38:17]
Tudor Dixon
Oh, wonderful. And then you have a Podcast as well. It's called Cold Red.
- [38:21]
James R. Fitzgerald
Cold Red, yes. Thanks for asking. And about that, too. So, yeah, I co hosted with my FBI buddy, Dr. Raymond Carr. We've been doing it about three years now. We've over 100 episodes, and it's all true crime oriented. And our thing is we bring on interesting guests, let them do most of the talking, we try and ask some interesting questions and all kinds of guests, all kinds of crimes, and we support the police and certainly victims. Victims are very important. In most episodes, we try to give something back, say, hey, you know, women. A lot of our demographic is women. And we say, you know, here's how to be careful, certainly around Christmas time and shopping time and what you do in parking lots and what you tell your daughters. We had someone on who got two weeks ago who works with, you know, Internet cyber stalking of young kids. I think was a very valuable episode to listen to. So. So, yeah, that's what Cold Red's all about. We're trying to help people and talk about true crime at the same time, but not glorify it. Bad guys are bad guys and we don't give them any credit down the line.
- [39:23]
Tudor Dixon
I appreciate that, especially the part about women. I've got four daughters. My sister has a daughter. And obviously we're calling my mom and saying, do you have cameras? Do you have your alarm system on? I mean, as you hear stories like this, you as a mom, you're raising your kids, and you're always worried about your kids. When I heard this story, I thought, oh, God, I have to be more concerned with my mom, too. And it's just, you know, having a resource like Cold Red to go to and say, okay, I can scroll through these episodes and learn how to take care of myself. I appreciate that. So thank you so much. James Fitzgerald, thank you for coming on the podcast today.
- [40:00]
James R. Fitzgerald
You're welcome, tutor. See you some other time.
- [40:02]
Tudor Dixon
Sounds good. And thank you all for joining us. As we said before, we are praying for the Guthrie family. We're thinking speaking of Savannah and her siblings. And we will be continuing to pray until we know what happened to Nancy Guthrie for this episode. Please check it out where you get your podcast or you can also watch it on Rumble or YouTube @Tutor Dixon. But please join us. And please join us in praying for the Guthrie family. Thank you.
- [40:28]
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