The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Intelligence, Accountability & Political Empathy with Buck Sexton

Summary

Summary of "The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Intelligence, Accountability & Political Empathy with Buck Sexton"

Release Date: March 5, 2025

In this compelling episode of "The Tudor Dixon Podcast," host Tudor Dixon engages in an in-depth conversation with Buck Sexton, co-host of "The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show" and former CIA officer. The discussion navigates through critical issues surrounding intelligence community integrity, the mishandling of the Jeffrey Epstein case, governmental transparency, voter fraud, and the complexities of U.S. involvement in international conflicts, particularly Ukraine. Buck Sexton provides insider perspectives, drawing from his extensive experience in the intelligence field, to shed light on these pressing topics.

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1. Infiltration of the Intelligence Community by Ideological Extremes

[02:14 - 05:35]

Tudor Dixon opens the discourse by addressing recent alarming revelations about disturbing conversations within NSA chat rooms, where individuals expressed highly offensive and non-conforming views. Buck Sexton elaborates on this issue, highlighting the extent of ideological infiltration:

Buck Sexton (03:21): "The intel community overwhelmingly recruits out of certain kinds of colleges, universities, and a lot of these international relations master's programs, which are very left wing."

He emphasizes that the presence of such individuals within intelligence agencies poses a significant national security risk, noting that over a hundred personnel have been dismissed due to these "deviant" behaviors.

2. Mishandling of the Jeffrey Epstein Case

[05:35 - 16:29]

The conversation shifts to the enigmatic Jeffrey Epstein case, focusing on the government's questionable actions during and after Epstein's arrest. Buck Sexton dissects specific incidents that raise red flags about governmental transparency and accountability:

Buck Sexton (13:21): "It's the leverage videotapes. So the guy who was clearly running a blackmail operation had videotapes the FBI found in a safe that they had to break into in his home while he's under arrest."

He points out the mysterious disappearance of these tapes, which were supposed to contain bombshell evidence but were inexplicably returned without any substantial revelations. Additionally, Sexton criticizes the immunity deal granted to Epstein's associates, suggesting it was an unprecedented move that protected unnamed conspirators.

3. Governmental Transparency and the Release of Sensitive Files

[16:29 - 29:58]

Tudor Dixon and Buck Sexton delve into the broader issue of governmental transparency, particularly regarding the release of sensitive files related to high-profile cases like Epstein and historical events such as the JFK assassination. Sexton expresses skepticism about the likelihood of uncovering new significant information from these files:

Buck Sexton (06:16): "If there was something in those files that was really juicy, it's been destroyed for a long time."

He underscores the challenges in accessing truthful information from government repositories, comparing it to fictional portrayals and dismissing the notion that hidden microfilms contain groundbreaking truths.

4. Voter Fraud and Election Integrity

[29:58 - 35:04]

The discussion transitions to concerns about voter fraud and the integrity of the electoral system. Buck Sexton critiques the current state of election procedures, arguing that deliberate design flaws make it nearly impossible to verify voter fraud:

Buck Sexton (22:32): "Democrats want to make it impossible to track voter fraud... when you make it illegal to show ID in places when it comes to voting... you're never going to prove any of this stuff."

He highlights the systemic issues that hinder transparency and accountability in elections, emphasizing the need for reforms to prevent potential abuses.

5. U.S. Involvement in the Ukraine Conflict

[35:04 - 41:11]

Tudor Dixon raises questions about the United States' role in the ongoing conflict in Ukraine, pondering whether America should intervene more directly or focus on diplomatic resolutions. Buck Sexton analyzes the complexities of U.S. commitment, expressing concerns over the potential escalation into a broader war:

Buck Sexton (38:47): "The Europeans can do this. This is much closer to them."

He suggests that European nations, being geographically closer and more directly impacted, should take the lead in addressing the conflict, rather than the U.S., which is already entangled in multiple global issues.

6. The Role of Empathy in Politics

[32:24 - 35:05]

The conversation explores the concept of empathy as a political tool, especially in the context of support for causes like Ukraine and social issues within the U.S. Buck Sexton references Elon Musk's critique of empathy, arguing that misplaced empathy can be manipulated:

Buck Sexton (33:09): "Empathy can be played on... it's false empathy because they don't know the whole story."

He warns against superficial expressions of empathy, which can lead to misguided policies and unintended consequences, advocating for a more informed and critical approach to political empathy.

7. The Future of Intelligence Agencies and National Security

[29:58 - 42:11]

Buck Sexton reflects on the current state and future of intelligence agencies, emphasizing the need for reforms to enhance efficiency and reduce ideological biases. He criticizes the bureaucratic inefficiencies and misalignments with national priorities:

Buck Sexton (27:15): "This whole thing is a runaway freight train. It's crazy."

He calls for modernization and accountability within intelligence communities to better serve national interests and address emerging threats effectively.

8. Concluding Thoughts on Political Landscape and Accountability

[41:11 - 42:29]

As the episode wraps up, Tudor Dixon and Buck Sexton discuss the evolving political landscape, particularly the resurgence of Donald Trump and its implications for governmental accountability and policy-making. Sexton expresses optimism about Trump's potential to instigate necessary changes within entrenched systems:

Buck Sexton (40:54): "The European Union is a bigger economy than the United States... they want to address this in their backyard."

He envisions a future where active political leadership can rekindle accountability and dismantle systemic inefficiencies, paving the way for a more transparent and effective government.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Buck Sexton (03:21): "The intel community overwhelmingly recruits out of certain kinds of colleges... very left wing."

• Buck Sexton (13:21): "It's the leverage videotapes... the FBI found in a safe that they had to break into..."

• Buck Sexton (22:32): "Democrats want to make it impossible to track voter fraud..."

• Buck Sexton (33:09): "Empathy can be played on... it's false empathy because they don't know the whole story."

• Buck Sexton (27:15): "This whole thing is a runaway freight train. It's crazy."

• Buck Sexton (40:54): "The European Union is a bigger economy than the United States..."

---

Conclusion

This episode of "The Tudor Dixon Podcast" offers a critical examination of the intersections between intelligence community integrity, governmental transparency, and the intricate dynamics of political empathy. Buck Sexton's insider insights provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the challenges facing national security and governance. The discussion underscores the imperative for informed public discourse and systemic reforms to address deeply rooted issues within the U.S. political and intelligence frameworks.

Transcript

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[Don Wildman]

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[Tudor Dixon]

Welcome to the Tudor Dixon Podcast. We have Buck Sexton here with us. He is the co host of the radio show we all know and love, Clay and Buck. Buck, welcome.

[Buck Sexton]

Hey, thank you so much for having me.

[Tudor Dixon]

Absolutely. So we had to have you because you are a former CIA officer. We're getting into all these crazy things that are happening like a disturbing. What is it? The NSA chat room where people are saying like really disgusting things.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, that's a real thing that happened. Apparently Dni Gabbard is, has already fired them or is in process of firing them. I'm not even sure how long all that takes, but she said she would. Yeah, they, they had the same kind of infiltration of the intelligence community by the, the gender wackos that you've seen in universities and in places in corporate America. All over the country. The, you know, the intel community overwhelmingly recruits out of certain kinds of colleges, universities, and a lot of these international relations master's programs, which are very left wing. And the kind of people that you would think should be going right to the Peace Corps or to work for the Soros foundation can very easily end up at the CIA or the nsa. And that kind of stuff happened in large numbers, particularly the last decade.

[Tudor Dixon]

I think that's where a lot of people don't really consider what this means. You hear this and you're like, oh, everybody's got this, you know, weird section of people that they work with. And no, no, no, these are the people that are giving us intelligence. These are the people that are supposed to be protecting the country. And they had some very disturbing conversations. And one, one person had to be referred to as it.

[Buck Sexton]

Yes, yeah, yeah. And remember, people that are saying those things when they, when they claim on this nsa, CIA, it's really something like a bulletin board more than I think is a live chat. But whatever. The systems have all changed too since I've been there and the actual systems and their names. It's been years and years since I had a clearance. But I can tell you that from friends of mine who are still on the inside. It's not just that the intel weirdos that were exposed in this are there and think this, but they also want to influence broader policy in the institution. So we can sit here and say the person that wants to be called it because it is non binary or whatever, non gender conforming demands that HR demand that everybody do that. And that's where it gets even weirder. Right? It's one thing for someone to have absurd beliefs and to have a security clearance while doing it, which I also think is a clear national security risk. They would ask you about your debts. Do you like to gamble? Do you have any, you know, anything that could be used to blackmail you about your, you know, your sex life or like, these are all things to get a clearance. Everyone knows this stuff. If you've read any spy novels or watched any of the recent CIA shows in particular, they'll talk about some of this stuff. But if you think you're an it, that's fine. In fact, that's protective. That has to be celebrated. If you, as I saw in one of the chats and hats of Chris Rufo for being the one that exposed all this, if you claim that you want to have a her, if you want to have a hermaphrodite child because that would allow you to raise somebody who was truly non binary and non gender conforming, you, you have big problems. And yet these people had security clearances, top secret level security clearances who were thinking that, not just thinking this stuff, sharing this stuff with other people inside the institution. So yeah, it's bad. It's hundreds of people too. It's. It wasn't like it was two or three weirdos.

[Tudor Dixon]

No, that's the crazy part. Over a hundred people that have been taken out of this position because essentially it was like deviant stuff. I mean, the things they were saying were, were messed up. And here we are, we have these people in our government now we have a situation where Pam Bondi is unable to get the full Epstein files. We think that that'll change now that Cash Patel is at the FBI. But I think these things are somewhat, I mean, they go together in the fact that you have some pretty deviant stuff that's being hidden from the American public but celebrated behind the scenes. And that to me is scary because where does Epstein fall into the government and why is he being protected after death?

[Buck Sexton]

Well, this is where unfortunately Tudor, I tend to be accurate and it tends to be not very much something that people want to hear. And it is when the government has stuff that would be really interesting and that would look really bad for the government, it does not release it. And I mean, even when there are people who are now saying, let's say it's, I know Cash, right? I mean, I've known Cash for a number of years. He's a good guy and he wants to get the truth out there. He's going to have to say, okay, I want access to the system or I want someone else to access the system and pull all of these files. That doesn't mean that he's going to get the files. Right? This is what everyone has to understand. The same thing with the JFK stuff. And I would note that I went on radio, so this is very public on the day that Pambani was supposed to release the files. And I said, there's going to be nothing in these files. And there was nothing new in the files. And this wasn't a surprise to me at all because I understand how the government actually functions and works. We all talk about the deep state and there's this awareness that there are people who think that they are not accountable to the rest of the executive branch. And then we think that when we have people who want there to be accountability, that the people who believe they're not accountable are suddenly going to start acting as though they are. Right. This is where there's a little bit of a disconnect. I'm not saying that that means you can't get there or that you can't change it up and shake it up. I think that's what Trump and his team are doing. It just means that they're fighting in this, that they're not going to, you know, the other side isn't going to lay down and say, oh yeah, like we're going to tell you all the things we didn't want to tell you before. So everyone needs to temper their expectations a little bit for how fast this is going to be and how thorough this is going to be. Same thing with the JFK files, I might add. If there was anything really juicy in the JFK files, we would know. We would know that stuff doesn't. Or if it's so juicy that the system has managed to, then they've already destroyed it. Do you see what I mean? It's not as simple as like there's some amazing. Remember the end of the movie the Rock? You saw the Rock, right? It was great. I mean, absurd movie. Your producer John, who likes the absurd show, Linus, would probably like the Rock. The Rock is an absurd, hugely entertaining movie. And he says, oh, do you want to know who killed jfk? Because he found the right microfilm. There's no microfilm that the government is hiding in a truth of the JFK assassination file that, that shows us who did it, right? If there was, it's been destroyed for a long time. So these are my. You know what I mean? This is like when Elon talks about UFOs, a guy who would know a lot about UFOs, he's like, there are no UFOs guys. So I hate to be the one tutor, but. And the Epstein files, what we know is bad enough. I don't just mean about Epstein, I mean about the government. Obviously the Epstein stuff is, is, is horrific and monstrous and evil. But I mean what we know about what the government did at various stages of the Epstein, it was a cover up. So we already know there was A cover up. We already know they didn't want to tell us the truth. We already know that.

[Tudor Dixon]

But you know, this, this is like, this is second nature to you. You know, these things. Like, you say this with confidence because you've lived it. The rest of the public still believes that there is that file where somebody, I mean, because we have watched those movies and we're like, okay, someone's gonna find this microfiche and come out and be like, check it out, look, these are the answers. And now, so you're telling us that this can't happen. But I think that people have believed for so long that it just had to be like the good guy, the hero was going to run in and all this was going to be exposed and now it's not getting exposed and there's backlash because of that. There are people that are, you know, very upset with Pam Bondi on, on online. We see social media posts, very upset with her. The next thing is going to be cash. But when does reality come out? Exactly what you're saying, when do people come out and say, you know, this isn't how it works. If there's bad stuff, I mean, this is the greatest spy agency in world. If they're going to have something horrible, they're going to get rid of it.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, I mean, this is going to sound a little, a little smug, but those people should listen to me because I told them before Pam Bondi showed anything that there was going to be nothing in those binders. But I don't know, being right, even on the right is not always enough for some people want to be entertained and they want to believe that there's huge stuff coming down or huge answers that will happen. Meanwhile, I think that our sense of politics, or rather what's possible in politics, has also just expanded so much given the Trump comeback, the two assassination attempts, all the criminal trials, that the true stuff is actually kind of crazy. Right. The stuff that we all just now accept as, oh, yeah, that's a thing that happened last year. But some of the belief that we're going to have bombshell revelations coming from within these government files. Yeah, I mean, there'll be bombshell revelations insofar as the stuff that Elon is doing, for example, at Doge, where the government is just lighting hundreds of billions of dollars on fire, essentially, or giving it to fraudsters, or giving it to interests that are engaged in corruption. But there's not some. Oh, here's, let me just put this out there. There are theories that Epstein, for example, was an Agent of a foreign intelligence service, and that that's why he was protected as long as he was and that he had leverage on the US Government. I'm just saying this is a theory. This is. You could say it's a conspiracy theory, a theory, whatever. I promise you, if that is true, there's no file that will ever be turned over or you will find from within the FBI or the CIA voluntarily that would say, oh, yeah, this is what was really going on. That's not going to happen. So you have to find another way to get to that information or that truth. And, you know, that's very, very hard, because the people that are in charge make it very hard. I mean, the craziest Epstein story, because you said, this is second nature to me. So I'll just give you an example of this, right? You might not even know this tutor. And people that follow this very closely don't know this. When they arrested Epstein at Teterboro Airport, I think it was in 2019. 2019. This is just kind of pre Covid. They went to his home. And I grew up a few blocks from where this home is, so I know this area very well. The home that he had is among the most lavish homes you could ever imagine. It was like an $80 million townhouse in New York City, which was a gift. Who gives somebody an $80 million townhouse? That's very strange. Start with that. He had an $80 million townhouse. They went through the townhouse. The FBI went through the townhouse after he was arrested. And this is all in the court transcripts. This is not my theory. This is what we've been told. And the FBI and I've told this story multiple times, and every time I tell it, people go, is that true? I go, yes, it's true. And then they look at it, and they text me later. They say, oh, my God, this is crazy. The FBI ransacked, essentially, Epstein's home. They found a safe that was hidden. A hidden safe. Now, what would a normal person keep in their hidden safe? Cash, jewelry, because that's the valuable stuff, right? So this isn't a safe that's out in the open. This is a safe that was. You know, they had to, like, pull off a painting on the wall or whatever. It was hidden saf. The FBI cracks the safe. You know what they find in the safe? Tutor videotapes.

[Tudor Dixon]

That's what I. That is exactly what I was gonna. I was gonna say. It's the videotapes.

[Buck Sexton]

It's the leverage videotapes. So the Guy who was clearly running a blackmail operation had videotapes the FBI found in a safe that they had to break into in his home while he's under arrest. Do you want to take a. What do you think the FBI did with those tapes, Tudor? Just want to throw a guess out there. Did they take them downtown right away and keep them secure for processing?

[Tudor Dixon]

They disappeared.

[Buck Sexton]

They did not. The FBI called, I believe, an Epstein estate attorney and the FBI claimed that they were not able to take the tapes. They only could search. They could not seize these tapes as evidence. No one has ever explained to me why that is, by the way. But I can give you other things that are totally inexplicable from the Epstein case that any expert will tell you, any law enforcement or criminal justice expert will say are completely inexplicable about the actions of the authorities. I'm not put aside Epstein child trafficking, horrible human being, monster, all that stuff. I'm talking about what the government did. And so they left the tapes there. The FBI left them there. Do you know what happened in a few days they came back for the tapes and Tudor, do you want to guess if the tapes were there still?

[Tudor Dixon]

I'm guessing they were not.

[Buck Sexton]

They were not. So then they call the Epstein estate attorney and they say, hey, because I guess they were coordinating for some reason about like what's in the house. And they say, hey, do you happen to have those tapes? And they go, oh yeah, yeah, we've got tapes, we'll bring them right back to you. And they brought back tapes. Was anything bombshell on those tapes that was still there? Definitely not. Will we ever know what was really on those tapes? Probably not. And there you have the kind of things that happen with the Epstein case that no person. Another one, by the way, I could just throw this out to you. They gave him immunity and this was in writing and this cost. I forget that he was the labor secretary under Trump search term. I'm actually forgetting the guy. Was it Alex Acosta? Does that sound right? This cost him his job. Cuz he was a US attorney in Florida and they gave for federal charges. They basically did a deal that covered unnamed co conspirators. No one ever does that. Like if you cut a deal with the feds, you don't get to cut a deal. That's like, oh, the people that helped me that you don't know about, if you ever find out about them, they're covered in this deal too. Andy McCarthy who is perfectly willing to be critical of Trump, whatever he said. I asked him about this. He said, I've never he was a prosecutor for 23 years in the Southern District of New York. I said, have you ever even heard of a prosecutor doing that? He said, absolutely not. Because there's no reason you would do it unless there are reasons that we don't know. So that's just some of the Epstein stuff that I would point to. You know, when people say the Epstein, it's never as easy as they're going to produce. Never as easy as they're going to produce the binders. And the binders are going to have everything that you ever wanted to know that I can tell everybody more coming.

[Tudor Dixon]

Up with Buck Sexton after this. But let me first tell you about my partners at IFCJ after more than a year of war, terror and pain in Israel, all of Israel is brokenhearted after learning about the tragic deaths of the Beavis children who were held hostage in Gaza. So many are still hurting throughout the Holy Land where the need for aid continues to grow. The the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews has supported and continues to support the families of the hostages and other victims of the October 7 terror attacks. With your help, IFCJ has provided financial and emotional help to the hostages and their families and to those healing and rebuilding their broken homes in broken bodies. But the real work is just beginning. Your gift will help provide critically needed support to those families in Israel whose lives continue to be destroyed by terror and uncertainty as Israel remains surrounded by enemies. Give a gift to bless Israel and her people by visiting supportifcj.org it's one word, supportifcj.org or call 888-488ifcj. That's 888488 ifcj now. Stay tuned. We've got more after this.

[Ryan]

It is Ryan here and I have a question for you. What do you do when you win? Like, are you a fist pumper?

[Unknown]

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[Ryan]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Unknown]

Almost a year and a half of nothing but war and terror and pain in Israel fighting for their survival against radical Islamists. And all of Israel is brokenhearted after learning of the tragic death of the Phoebus children who were held hostage in Gaza. We all saw the images. It was horrible. So many are still hurting in the Holy Land, where the need for aid continues to grow. Thankfully, the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, they're supporting the families of hostages, other victims of the October 7 attacks and the war that ensued. And with your help, the IFCJ has been able to provide financial emotional help to hostages, their families, and to those that are healing and rebuilding their homes and broken bodies. But the real work, sadly, is just beginning. Whatever you can give, please go to their website. It's one word. It's supportifcj.org supportifcj.org or call toll free 888-488ifcj 888-488-ifcj today.

[Don Wildman]

Hey, I'm Don Wildman. And on American History hit my expert guests and I journey across the nation and through the years to uncover the stories that have made the United States. From first flight to first ladies, from stitching the Star Spangled Banner to striking gold in California to shooting for the moon with Apollo. We've got you covered. Catch new episodes of American History. Hit a podcast by history. Hit every Monday and Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Lisa]

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[Tudor Dixon]

There is certainly a lot of criticism of the big show of everybody walking out of the White House with the binders and then the binders have nothing in them. And there's a lot of criticism of that.

[Buck Sexton]

It was an error. I mean, it was, it was a mistake. I think on the they said there was miscommunication. You know, it's early stages. They didn't know. She didn't know was in it. I've seen variations on it, but the whole thing was not, was not good. Now, it's not the end of the world, obviously, but it was not well thought out. And if anything, though, I think you could just say that it is a reminder for people about the Epstein case and that there are still unanswered questions. So maybe Raising that has some value in the public consciousness. But the day, no, it was a debacle. It did not work the way it was supposed to work. And also didn't surprise me at all that that's what happened. So I was kind of wondering why didn't the people in charge figure this out? But they didn't ask me. I don't know.

[Tudor Dixon]

Well, they obviously should have because we've learned, you know, quite a bit. But I'm not joking. I do think that, I mean, these are why we have these conversations, because they're valuable. And we don't have that many people that have been inside that can step out and tell us about this behemoth that is the government. And that's where the American public is right now, like they have never been before. Because I think in years past, I would say even before COVID we had a. We much more trusted our government. There were people certainly that didn't. But after Covid, that was all gone, I believe. So many people went, wait a minute, this is a massive organization. They're sending our money all different places. And that's why DOGE is getting such high ratings right now. But I understand what you're saying about not being able to find these documents and certain things that would put the country at risk are destroyed. They're. We're never going to see them. But when we go back to some of these radical policies where they've been spending money to go into these other countries and push, push programs that would never actually work in countries like, you know, Syria, going in there and teaching DEI or whatever it is, are we ever going to find out if this is really where that money is going? Because I have got to believe there are people getting paid out of Washington D.C. with some of these programs that are supposedly going to other countries.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, I think that if anyone can find out, it's Elon. But even he has said a few times recently, recently that they have had this system set up with no tracking mechanism on it. So how can you know. And you'll notice there's a theme here, right, with Democrats, they want to make it impossible to track voter fraud. People say, prove the voter fraud. And I just say, well, when you make it illegal to show ID in places when it comes to voting and you make it, you have same day registration and you have, how do you prove it's impossible to prove this? Right? Or you have live ballots that are out there and there's no chain of custody and there's just. And they're sending ballots out to senior citizen homes and people are collecting them all. You're never going to prove any of this stuff. And that's assuming that somebody actually wants to go out and find the truth and prove it in the first place. So with Elon, I think that we're getting a sense of the scale of the problem and how real it is. But tracking down individual dollars on this stuff is going to be, in many cases, completely, truly impossible. As in, there's just no way to do it. And, and so then it becomes, how do we prevent this, this kind of stuff from happening more in the future?

[Tudor Dixon]

Do you think that there's just too much of the public gives. Gives a pass too often? Like, we just, over time, we forget things. I mean, you brought up the JFK files. And last night, my, weirdly enough, last night my oldest, we were coming home from someplace and she was like, they were talking about meeting Bobby Kennedy, and she was like, well, did he ever find out how his uncle and his dad were actually killed? Because weren't they going to put those files out? And I'm like, huh, you know, I actually don't even know what those files ended up saying. It's like you kind of move on to the next news cycle. Look at Andrew Cuomo. What in the world? Suddenly he's running for mayor. Are we all going to forget what he did in New York? I mean, New York was one of the worst, One of the worst states next to maybe Michigan, but New York, what they did to seniors, what he did and his sexual assault charges. I mean, and this guy's going to run for mayor and everybody's going to forget.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, well, as you know, I was living in New York during the Cuomo reign of terror, during COVID and I thought he was absolutely horrendous, and he's totally unrepentant. And he's. I think he's a scumbag, just top to bottom in so many different respects. And so it's sad to me to see that he's running away already with the mayoral race in New York without even officially entering it yet. But it's a Democrat city. That's just the bottom line, right? I mean, for anyone who's saying, well, why. Why aren't New Yorkers? Because they. It's 80% Democrat, and that's how the city of New York votes. And so if that becomes, if you become the Democrat nominee, you're. You're effectively guaranteed to become the mayor of New York. So I think that that's probably going to happen. I think that on the. On the fraud stuff, the problem is that the numbers have all gotten so big that it's hard. You know, Tudor, if you found out that a person down the street from you raised a million dollars for a wounded veterans charity and just went and blew it in Vegas and bought himself a Lamborghini, you'd be like, oh, my God, how could. And rightly right. I'd be like, oh, my God, how could you do something so scummy, so unethical, so terrible? But when you find out that the USAID gave a grant to an NGO that had been around for less than a year and funded it to the tune of a billion dollars, it's like, how do you even comprehend that it's so much money, and yet people will say, well, that's only a billion dollars. We're $36 trillion in debt. We assume that. So we have this problem of scale right, in the thinking about all this, because there's an assumption, or there's just baked into all of this, that Medicaid and Medicare, rather, Medicare fraud, is estimated to be $80 billion a year. And that's not an Elon number. That's just the number that's been, like the government's own number for a long. So when you're losing $80 billion on a single government program to waste fraud and abuse, and then you're finding all these other little programs that are smaller, it's just tough for people to keep it in the kind of scale in their minds where I think they demand action. And I think it's just almost. I think it's overwhelming. I think at some level, Elon is overwhelmed. I mean, not entirely, but I think he's overwhelmed by just how gross the swamp really is. Like, he knew it would be bad, but as he's looking into it, you get the sense that this whole thing is. Is just a. It's a runaway freight train. It's crazy.

[Tudor Dixon]

That's where I think the American people are, too. I mean, as we hear these things, as these numbers come out, I mean, you talk about, like, the Stacey Abrams organization that received $2 billion, and then they were told to spend it in 21 days. I mean, you talk about the scale of money, $2 billion for an organization that has never had more than $100 in their pocket, suddenly they're gonna get it, and they have to spend it in 21 days. It's almost impossible. And therefore, you have to say, what could this possibly. What could possibly be going on? You've said that You've heard rumblings inside the intelligence community that people are kind of like, oh, my gosh, Trump's back. And this time he's actually serious for sure.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah. No, it's funny, because the first time around, and I remember this very well, the first time around Trump took over, there was initially huge panic at, oh, my gosh, what's he going to do? And this is crazy, and Trump and Russia and all this stuff, and then they kind of figured out, well, you know, he's got some swampers that are around him, and, you know, we can. We can just wait this out. That was the attitude. We're just going to wait this out. We'll do what we do. And unfortunately, they were largely right about that. Now, there's a lot we could talk about with how they sabotaged Trump's administration with Russia collusion, and they were actively. They were actively working against him. They didn't just wait him out. Okay, fine. But put that aside this time around, the attitude after he won. So I'm talking now, the immediate days after the election was, yeah, you know, Trump talks a big game, but we know, we know how to deal with this guy. And here we are now in March, a few months, and it's, oh, my gosh, this guy's not messing around. Like, he's put people in charge this time who are intending on carrying out the agenda of cleaning out the madness in these places. So they've had a lot of whiplash in the intelligence community, but the intelligence community is way too big. You have far too many people who are doing nothing or doing the same thing that somebody else is doing, which is effectively the same as doing nothing. It's one of the reasons, honestly, that I left. I mean, as soon as the mission under the Obama administration, you know, shifting toward climate change and all kinds of crazy stuff, too. I just, like, I don't want to. I don't want to do this anymore. It's an enormous source of waste. Now, you do need an intel. You need intel agencies, because if not, you're just going to be preyed upon by the foreign intelligence operations of other countries. Because there's huge advantage in information, obviously, right? There's huge advantage in knowing what your adversaries and even what your allies are up to. But it needs to be a lot better than what it is, and it needs to be brought up to date in the 21st century, and it needs to not be concerned with calling people it.

[Tudor Dixon]

Yeah, right. Well, of course. And now we are in the midst of. I mean, he Came in at a very interesting time where we are on the edge of World War iii, or we could be on the edge of World war. And you've got people who are defending this Ukrainian president who, I mean, honestly, if we're honest about Ukraine, Trump was impeached the first time because people are like, oh, my gosh, Ukraine is so corrupt. Should we actually trust what his conversation was with Ukraine? And now they're defending Ukraine and they're like, we've got to. We've got to be there for Ukraine. But I can't understand the American public. Do they want him to go in and say, we're going to restore this border and push Russia back, or do they just want this war to stop because he promised to stop the war? He didn't promise to return Ukraine 100%, make it whole.

[Buck Sexton]

I think that the two primary reasons that there's opposition, the American opposition to Trump on Ukraine and his approach to it, come from one, anything Trump wants must be bad and therefore opposed. And it's the most simplistic, but I think widespread thinking in the anti Trump world that exists. Right? So Trump wants to end this war. And you know, that, that, that's something that would give him a win politically and it would look good for him. Therefore, more Ukrainians and Russians, tens of thousands of them, need to get, you know, shot, blown up, et cetera. Because I don't want to have to stop flying my Ukraine flag in my bio. Right? That's one part of it. And, well, actually, that kind of transitions into the second part of it, too, which is, I think for a lot of people, they derive a sense of moral heroism from their support, just like they do with climate change. Right. I mean, this is why the vax needle emoji and the Ukraine flag emoji were side by side in so many people. You remember this? So many people's profiles. They had he, him in their Twitter bio or whatever, because they got to tell us the pronouns. Of course, they should tell us their testosterone levels, but he, him, and then. And then they would have the. The syringes for Covid, and then they would have a Ukraine flag because to them it's a. It's a. It's essentially a moral fad. And it costs them nothing because they just think of it as taxpayer dollars. And, you know, that. That, that means nothing to them, and it makes them feel good about themselves, and so they want to support it for that.

[Tudor Dixon]

It is interesting because Elon came out and he said he made this comment about empathy being dangerous. And I think people were kind of like, well, how can you say that? But I think from the governmental standpoint, empathy can be played on. So if you have all of these people who are empathetic to this cause without all of the knowledge, because propaganda can then come in and it can destroy nations. I mean, really, it's an interesting thought when you look at these bios, because that is what it is, is empathy. It's people like, oh, my gosh, I care so much. I have to show that I care. But it's false empathy because they don't know the whole story. And that's when it becomes dangerous for a leader or a country or the entire world.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, I mean, of course empathy can be dangerous, and you could see this in so many different situations, but you can walk past a person on the street who's homeless and seems to be very down on his luck and think to yourself, that's sad, and that's a child of God, and I wish things were better for. Better for him. And you can think that you can also walk up to that person and say, hey, I'd like to give you here's $5. Go get yourself a hot meal. And they may pull a knife out, put up your throat and say, I'll take the whole wallet. Thanks. That's empathy. That doesn't work for you. And that's the real world. I'm not saying that happens all the time. I'm just saying that there are situations where you can be drawn into and your empathy can be used as. I think, actually, Ali Beth Stuckey has a very good book, Toxic Empathy, where she talks about the way politically, our good guy impulse on the right particularly, is used against us. And you see that all the time, constantly. Right. So, you know, just use the preferred pronouns. It's the nice thing to do. With the transgender debate, it's been a huge thing. Right. I don't. I don't want to offend somebody. I'm a polite person, so of course I'll use your pronouns. Well, it starts with the pronouns, and then it's, I also want to play on the high school girls basketball team, and I'm a six foot tall guy. Right. One goes into the other. And this is where your empathy is being used as a political tool or weapon against you. And in the case of Ukraine, I think there are a lot of people for whom they think of this like it's teams and Ukraine good, Russia bad. And you always hear this like, putin's the aggressor. Yeah, we know. But There are a lot of people who are being brought to the front lines to fight in that war who just happen to be born in Ukraine or happening. Born in Russia and they're about to get their arms blown off.

[Tudor Dixon]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

Can we stop that? Is there a way we can get that to stop happening? Another part of this, too, is, you know, if the Donbas region ends up being part of the Russian Federation when all said and done, and this, it's not Nazi Germany. There are a lot of people who live in Russia. I'm not saying it's perfect or even great or whatever, but, you know, they have families, they have food on the table. Like they live their lives. This isn't the end of the world. And for us to be messing around in this way when there are nuclear weapons, thousands of them, in the hands of the Russians, there is a red line at which the Russians, I think, would deploy those nukes, by the way.

[Tudor Dixon]

Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tudor Dixon Podcast.

[Unknown]

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[Tudor Dixon]

People in the United States, we've been so spoiled that we don't understand leverage. There is no. Ukraine has no leverage here. They want the United States to stand behind them and say, we're going to push you back and we're going to restore Ukraine. That's. That is where I have a problem. They didn't ask Obama to get Crimea back and then go fight Russia. You know, they, they were okay with Russia then. They were okay with Russia. When they came in to Ukraine the first time, they just said to Joe, just keep giving them money to let him fight. Why would you want to continue this, this battle? Why would you want to continue this war? You've got this little country that if Russia eventually wants to come in and take over, we are holding them back. But if there's an opportunity to stop the bloodshed, stop the bloodshed. I mean, even my friends in the Arab community here, they say, we understand that there is a battle here. We want peace. We are looking for peace. When did Americans stop looking for peace?

[Buck Sexton]

Well, I think also when you look at what the options are for Ukraine and what Zelensky's must be his end game here. And there's a lot of different theories about it, but to me, he wants. The only way that this war can end, in his mind, is if there is a promise and a guarantee that the US And European countries will threaten to go muzzle to muzzle with the Russians and to fight them, you know, because this is, this came up early in the sit down where he goes, well, what if Putin violates a ceasefire? Well, man, I mean, you know, we're going to probably do some more economic sanctions and send him a strongly worded letter and do what we can to make it more uncomfortable for him. We're going to continue to send guns and munitions and things like that to Ukraine so they can continue the resistance, but we're not about to drop the 82nd Airborne there and be like, all right, go fight the Spetsnaz. And I think that people get very uncomfortable with Zelenskyy because they start to feel like, is that what he's trying to engineer here. Right. Is he trying to get to a place where America is actually willing to go to war with Russia to protect Ukraine? And this is, I think this is where the fundamental clash is on this, at least from those who are trying to be serious about policy. The answer to whether I think we should lose a single American life to defend the Donbas is no, no, under any circumstance, no. And so I think Zelensky knows that there are a lot of people feel that way. And so this is where there's all this prevarication and it's talking to both sides of his mouth. Oh, yeah, I want this war to end, but I want security guarantees. What's going to be a sufficient guarantee? Right. I mean, what's going to be a sufficient guarantee for Zelensky? And I think the only one, and he won't say this out loud, the only one is that America promises that we'll actually enforce, we'll enforce these lines ourselves, with force, with guns. And I don't want that. I mean, if the Europeans want to do that, good luck.

[Tudor Dixon]

Well, and I think that's where Trump is. The Europeans can do this. This is much closer to them.

[Buck Sexton]

They should be doing it. By the way, this is crazy. The EU is a bigger economy than the United States. You know, they want to form this economic union. Yeah. We're the biggest for any single country, but they want to form this economic union. There's plenty of resources from the EU countries to figure this thing out and get this thing done. And it is their backyard, it is their problem more than ours.

[Tudor Dixon]

But there is definitely, I mean, you have this little country who is out there saying, I want the two nuclear powers to come fight over me. And the American people need to recognize that that's, that is not a place you ever want to be and you don't want to. And, and Donald Trump is not being manipulated by this guy, whereas I think Joe Biden was manipulated by him, or whoever was actually in control was manipulated by him the whole time. It stops today. This is the new era. This is the Trump era. And I am, for one, interested in seeing how it goes forward, because I agree with you. We're not going to send anybody there, and we shouldn't send anybody there. And I've taken up all of your time, but I, I so I could just listen to you talk forever, because you do know all of this. And I don't want to. Clay is going to yell at me if I make your head too big. But I do enjoy our conversations. Because you do have quite a bit of knowledge and I appreciate it.

[Buck Sexton]

Thank you very much. Try to stay up on these things. I always appreciate getting a chat with you about things and thank you for doing so on the Clan Buck Podcast Network. Your numbers are fantastic. Tutor.

[Tudor Dixon]

Well, thank you. It's because of you guys so I don't even have to say we enjoy having you. Buck Sexton. As always, you are always welcome on the podcast and for all of you listening, thank you for listening. Check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and join us next time. Have a blessed day.

[Don Wildman]

Hey, I'm Don Wildman and on American History hit my expert guests and I journey across the nation and through the years to uncover the stories that have made the United States. From first Flight to First Ladies, from stitching the Star Spangled Banner to striking gold in California to shooting for the moon with Apollo, we've got you covered. Catch new episodes of American History. Hit a podcast by History. Hit every Monday and Thursday wherever you get your podcasts.

[Buck Sexton]

Mom, I need to lay low for a few days.

[Unknown]

Lay low.

[Buck Sexton]

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[Unknown]

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