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The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Navigating Vaccine Controversies with Dr. Robert Malone
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- [00:00]
Tudor Dixon
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:04]
Bubba Wallace
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- [00:37]
Tudor Dixon
You see a headline but don't have.
- [00:39]
Colby Ekowitz
Time to read the whole story.
- [00:40]
Tudor Dixon
Or there's so much news you're not sure what is worth your time. I'm Colby Ekowitz, co host of Post Reports, the weekday afternoon podcast from the Washington Post. Post Reports brings you what's relevant and revealing. Breaking stories, politics, wellness, culture. Each episode goes beyond a headline for the context you need. Find Post Reports now wherever you're listening.
- [01:05]
Bubba Wallace
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Colby Ekowitz
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- [02:09]
Tudor Dixon
We all have that piece. The one that's so you. You've basically become known for it. And if you don't yet fashionistas, you'll find it on ebay.
- [02:18]
Dr. Robert Malone
That Miu Miu red leather bomber, the.
- [02:20]
Tudor Dixon
Cousteau Barcelona cowboy top. Or that Patagonia fleece in the 2017 colorway. All these finds are all on ebay, along with millions of more main character pieces backed by authenticity guaranteed. Ebay is the place for pre loved and vintage fashion. Ebay Things people love welcome to the Tudor Dixon podcast. We have Dr. Robert Malone with us today. He is a physician, a scientist, a biochemist, and he was just selected to be the one of the on the CDC Vaccine Advisory Board for Health and Human services by Secretary RFK Jr. Welcome to the program, Doctor.
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Dr. Robert Malone
Thanks for having me on. Tutor.
- [03:02]
Tudor Dixon
So I've actually been wanting to interview you for a long time because obviously your story is somewhat unique in the fact that you are one of the people who was really attacked over the COVID vaccine and attacked in such a serious way that people really tried to discredit your entire career. You were removed from social media. What is it like now to be in this position where you. That has been restored, your, your research, everything has been restored and you are now in the position of getting to look at these vaccines ahead of time?
- [03:36]
Dr. Robert Malone
Well, Tudor, just. I think we may have scheduled this before the ACIP announcement was made. I need to just give the disclaimer. Number one, I'm not speaking on behalf of the government in any way. Number two, I'm under rather strict guidance from HHS to ncdc Media Management, People, Communications and Press did not speak about ACIP and what's anticipated. Okay, say that.
- [04:11]
Tudor Dixon
Okay.
- [04:12]
Dr. Robert Malone
In terms of my career, I was. I'm in the middle of writing an essay right now for today's substack. Looks like I'm going to put one out and Jill's going to put one out today. But my essay today is focusing on the deeper meaning of mis dis and malinformation. And I try to avoid going to my Wikipedia page because it's usually a little depressing.
- [04:38]
Tudor Dixon
I'm in that same situation, actually. I know what you mean, but I.
- [04:42]
Dr. Robert Malone
Noticed that there's been yet another major rewrite. They still cite the New York Times article by Davey, all books in which she makes a series of assertions that hardly are flattering, that I've overstated my contributions. And just to recap, Davy Alba was terminated by the New York Times immediately after that article is the last one she wrote. And she was closely aligned with the CIA. She appears to be somebody who was working at the New York York Times under government funding and it has very strong Operation Mockingbird tones. Cheryl Gay Stolberg, the main health reporter from the New York Times, who I've known for, literally actively distances herself from that essay and from Davey Alba. And when I mentioned to her, because I run into her all the time, that that article is still being cited, she basically dissembles. And she doesn't apologize for the New York Times, but she says that they terminated Davey Alba, and she doesn't represent the paper, so. But this is still cited all the time and used in the case of the Wikipedia as kind of a ongoing attempt to delegitimized me. So it's not over the since the nomination, there's been a huge surge of efforts once again to delegitimize me into question and to label me as a spreader of misinformation and to nitpick the literally over 1400 essays I've written on Substack and the hundreds and hundreds of podcasts that I've given, going over those and trying to find some little nit that they can weaponize. The one in Wikipedia that the press is grabbing is that long ago, before I was banned from Twitter, I reposted a video montage of athletes suddenly having heart attacks or dying on the field. And I just unthinkingly just reposted this because at the time there was a lot of denialism about the myocarditis and the effects of the myocarditis and a lot of disinformation coming from the government about that, as you'll recall from CDC and others. And unfortunately, one of the clips in that reel, which I did not error and I didn't take the time to nitpick every single clip on the reel to make sure that it was real, was a young man who passed away on the field before the COVID crisis. And the parents of that young man, because I was prominent, decided to send me a cease and desist letter. And I was horrified. I immediately deleted my repost and publicly apologized and also directly personally apologized to parents for this. But that's now being weaponized against me. And there's, there's at least 14 media my wife calls, Jill calls it dead media stories that are in progress or have been published that seek to question the integrity and objectivity of every single of the newly appointed individuals to the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. So it's kind of you to say that I have been somehow politically rehabilitated. But the truth is that they have. With this appointment, there's been a concerted attempt to once again delegitimize me, question my integrity, my objectivity. I mean, the narrative that because I was the author of the main expert witness report on the Kraaling et al Whistleblower study, a whistleblower case against Merck vaccines for the mumps product is somehow considered to be an indication of my conflict of interest in some way neutralizing or legitimizing all of the major Financial conflicts of interest that have occurred over the course of the ACIP over the last 15 or 20 years. So somehow me spending two years pouring through thousands and thousands of documents that were obtained during discovery from Merck and from another major vaccine manufacturer, and then writing an objective report about that that was then used as the basis for a subsequent expert witness report by a former FDA commissioner who was less knowledgeable about vaccines, somehow that's a conflict of interest. But having directly been paid and worked or being sponsored by the pharmaceutical industry is not a conflict. I think that's the logic.
- [10:25]
Tudor Dixon
You know, you're talking about something that everybody goes through when they go into, I think, especially a Trump administration. We saw it in 2016 with people who went into the Trump administration. I don't remember this happening as severely with any other Republican president. But there is a media frenzy when anyone gets nominated to anything in this administration. And it was certainly not the case when Joe Biden was president. I mean, some of the people that were at Health and Human Services and the one person had to be fired because he was a thief. I mean, and dressing as a woman and stealing women's clothing.
- [11:02]
Dr. Robert Malone
Widespread. Barely competent. Yes. Yeah. So. And by the way, I'm. I have the blessing of having support from many influential conservatives that many of whom live locally, even have farms nearby, because this is how they escape D.C. as they come down to this part of Virginia. So. And I. And I had a really kind phone call yesterday from a very prominent conservative that has really been through the wringer in the past. And I'm. I'm very aware that it's likely that at some point in time, I will be subjected to lawfare. I don't mean to cast myself as a victim, but I want. I'm very aware that by accepting this position, I'm signing up for years of grief. I'm doing it because, as I've said repeatedly, if I'm asked to serve my country, I will do so to the best of my ability. And it's not I don't seek, as Sophia Carstens pointed out the other day in her essay in Brownstone, also reposted our substack. I don't seek this for power or for money or anything else. I'm doing it out of a sense of public service and because my friend and colleague Secretary Kennedy asked me to do so.
- [13:00]
Tudor Dixon
Right. Well. And I think we all see that. I think we all appreciate that. I think the important thing that people are seeing, which I hate, that it has to happen this way. But what you just said that you're expecting lawfare. You are in a kind of unique situation because they did go after you so hard in 2020, and you weren't in an administration at that time. You were literally just talking about your research.
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Dr. Robert Malone
2021 through 2025. Pretty much just never stop.
- [13:28]
Tudor Dixon
Right, Exactly. I think we've watched what happened to Elon Musk when he went in, and people saw that and went, wait a minute. This guy was a guy on the left. And then he became the enemy the minute he got in there. And I do think that contributed to this rift between he and the president a few weeks ago because it's so much pressure. I don't think people understand the amount of pressure when you have the propaganda machine against you. It is massive.
- [13:55]
Dr. Robert Malone
It's not just I'm coming from the left. There's. If you're active on alternative media, let's call it. Because calling it social media is kind of too constraining. As opposed to dead media, which is what Joe likes to call the other side. So. As in dead men walking. So unfortunately, there are many who have little sense of perspective. Who. There's basically, if you. Well, what I'm getting at is that I'm also getting attacked from people who I would have thought would have been allies or that we are on the same side, as is Secretary Kennedy. A number of people have called for his resignation. There are certain position influencers that have built wide audiences by asserting that Secretary Kennedy has broken his promises about immediately taking the MRNA products off the market. Which, by the way, I did a deep analysis on what he said during the campaign. He never made that promise. That's just more fake news. But it's coming from people that assert that they're part of the Maha base and they represent Maha moms and, you know, but meanwhile, they're busy raising their social media profiles. So the, The. Much of this seems to be driven by envy.
- [15:45]
Tudor Dixon
Oh my gosh, you are so right. I've. I see it on the state level and I think in a. In a certain situation, having run for governor and having been attacked by people there. There is this. There's this movement to make social media influencers or alternative media influencers push people in a certain direction politically. And I think what you are saying is such a valuable message right now. People get to a point where they think that have this power and they start to eat their own in. In a very. And it happens on both sides.
- [16:22]
Dr. Robert Malone
Yeah. Yep. It. It. So I. You. I'm sure you don't follow my Substack religiously. But right after the election, I posted a couple of essays relating to populism and the history of American populism and what the dangers were and the lessons that we could learn from that. The history of American populism and populism in general has been one of successive failures to implement actionable policy. And part of the reason for this is that this kind of division occurs. Another is because people that are involved in populist movements are almost always outsiders. And so they don't really understand the levers and gears and mechanics of governance. And they do manage to get into positions of influence. They tend to not be very effective. And I think this is one of the remarkable things about Secretary Kennedy is that how could anybody be prepared for running the largest cabinet level organization in the United States government, which makes it far bigger in terms of employees and budget than most other governments. And Secretary Kennedy has had limited experience in managing very large organizations. I would say essentially no experience. CHD is certainly not a very large organization by Harrison, and he was chairman of the board. What he has is a long history as an attorney, as a prosecuting attorney, taking on government and large businesses in cases in particular involving environmental toxins and contaminants. And he, what I see is, I do speak to him from time to time, is somebody who has a very stewed sense of tactics and strategy. And he is growing, in my opinion, from what I'm observing, he's growing extremely rapidly into this major leadership role. I mean, think about it. You almost have two centers of power. There's a major one, of course, with President Trump and his foreign policy actions. But Secretary Kennedy is, is a, a major force in American politics and policy right now in his own domain, in way much more than J.D. vance, who I think is also quite brilliant. But Secretary Kennedy seems to be growing extremely rapidly into the kind of operational leader that HHS has never had. We've never had anybody like this that is willing and able to take on these big issues that are captured in the Make America Healthy Again agenda, which by the way, is an acronym MAHA and a nomenclature, Make America Healthy Again, that Bobby created himself. This was part of his campaign. If anybody that says, well, I represent MAHA or I represent the MAHA moms, and I'm against Secretary Kennedy, there's a logic flaw there.
- [20:14]
Tudor Dixon
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- [21:50]
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- [22:50]
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- [22:52]
Dr. Robert Malone
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- [22:58]
Bubba Wallace
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- [23:21]
Dr. Robert Malone
You don't know me yet, but I bet we have something in common. We all wish we were better functioning humans.
- [23:28]
Tudor Dixon
Maybe figure out how to sleep better.
- [23:30]
Dr. Robert Malone
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- [23:42]
Tudor Dixon
And we learn together. I'm Christina Quinn. Now you know me.
- [23:46]
Dr. Robert Malone
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- [24:49]
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- [25:24]
Tudor Dixon
So I have watched obviously what he's been doing. I we in our own family we've experienced some of the things that he was talking about and I think that that's where moms across the country started to say yeah, I've seen, I mean in, in our classrooms I've seen kids that are morbidly obese. And I think this is not what I. I grew up just, what, 40 years ago with kids that were. Didn't look like this. You know, why is there has to be something else? But even my sister, her daughter, she was struggling with ticks. And they said, you know what, we're going to take away food dyes. Her life completely changed. She was a totally healthy kid without food dyes. And yet the medical community wanted to say, well, we're going to put this on her. We're going to put this medication and we're going to do this. My sister said, no, there's something in her environment that's causing this. And that's when I start. I, as a mom, started to say, how many chronic illnesses are we dealing with because of what we are ingesting, unknowingly ingesting. And so I think a lot of people have gotten on this, the food movement, for sure, they feel very confident in saying we want to have healthy foods.
- [26:35]
Dr. Robert Malone
We don't want the government putting winning bipartisan platform. I mean, it's talking about raw politics. It cuts across both parties, which is why it's so potent and why it may have played a key role in swing states and why it's perceived as such a political threat, particularly by the Democrat.
- [26:56]
Tudor Dixon
Yeah, absolutely. But vaccines, I think, is a little bit different. I think people don't know exactly where to land on vaccines. I want to ask you about MRNA because I keep seeing that there are vaccines coming out for cancers. I'm breast cancer survivor. MRNA is something they talk about for breast cancer a lot. I don't know the breakdown of what is safe and what's not safe. And if I should be worried, if I shouldn't be worried, I was wondering if you could just give us a lowdown of what is it? Are there any. Is there a positive to the MRNA vaccines in general?
- [27:32]
Dr. Robert Malone
I'll come back to an interview I gave to a German newspaper about a year and a half ago in Geneva, as I recall. Or they asked a similar question. Their question was, could MRNA vaccines be made safe? And my rather glib answer was, well, pigs could fly if they only had wings. We can speculate that this might be done or that might be done in order to mitigate the risks that have become fairly clear. The issue with the MRNA products that are on the market right now, which are largely Covid products, is multifactorial. There are multiple sources of toxicity. And so to tease apart, could things be made safe? And perhaps a better way to think about it is not absolute safety, but relative safety compared to the disease that is being treated. So to illustrate that point in a very raw way, if the I worked intimately on the Ebola vaccine, and this is something the media overlooks, is that I actually brought the Public Health Agency Canada Newlink Ebola vaccine product to Merck because in my opinion at the time, I was a lead consultant for New Link Genetics, which held the rights, they bought it from Canada. My opinion was that Merck was in the best position to advance that product and to get it to licensure and make it available. But it is a nasty vaccine. Washington Post did a whole essay early on, you know, multi page spread concerning somebody that received the vaccine here domestically and they had all kinds of joint pain and inflammatory symptoms. It is a recombinant vaccine based on vesicular stomatitis virus, which causes a lot of disease in humans when if they get infected. And so it's a, the slang in the vaccine world. It's a hot vaccine. And if we had an Ebola outbreak in the United States, I guarantee people would be lined up around the block to take that nasty piece of work, even though it would make them very sick. Because Ebola is a absolutely horrid disease. And I can tell you, in West Africa, as the outbreak was developing, I was at the WHO a number of times and listening to people, public health officials from the front lines describe the absolute madness that Ebola will cause in crowds and populations. It's a scary disease. So nasty vaccine, lots of side effects. You wouldn't take it if you weren't at risk. And if you were at risk, you would gladly line up for it. Similar to yellow fever. Yellow fever vaccine is a live attenuated vaccine that is so closely related to the actual yellow fever virus. It's derived from that if you take too many doses of the yellow fever vaccine, you will get yellow fever and be at a high risk of dying. So these things exist and they have their use likewise in cancer. And I'm sorry to hear of your story. I hope that you remain negative.
- [31:32]
Tudor Dixon
Thank you.
- [31:33]
Dr. Robert Malone
And hope that you got appropriate treatment and weren't over treated. But you know that you had a certain risk profile based on your genetics and the presentation of your disease and you were informed of that and you were told that you have thus and such a risk of surviving or death. And if you took this whatever, and I don't want to know whatever the treatment was that you took, it had risks associated with also and you were basically put in a position of fully informed Consent, I hope I infer in which you were. The risks associated with the treatment were explained to you, including the long term risks. If there was chemotherapy to develop subsequent bone marrow cancers or other things, and you chose to accept whatever the treatment was that you selected, and we don't need to know about, it's your personal business, because you thought the risk benefit was acceptable. So likewise, and this is the case with, with cancer, you already have a disease and the disease at the stage that it's identified has some statistical parameters around it having to do with your risk and life expectancy and outcomes. So then it's easy to do a risk benefit calculation, relatively speaking, when you have an existing disease, when somebody is not yet diseased, but they are at potential risk for acquiring a disease at some point in the future, it's generally agreed upon that the ethics of that are such that the intervention. Because you're intervening to a patient that doesn't have disease, okay. In the prospect that they may or may not get the disease at some point in time, that means that in some cases, maybe the majority of cases, you're going to subject that patient to risk. Because all drugs have risk, all vaccines have risk. Water has risk, insufficient doses, okay? So you're going to subject that patient to risk at a point in time when they don't actually have any direct benefit. They're not at risk for a disease, they haven't developed a disease, I should say. And so they're not at risk for the outcomes of that disease. And yet you're going to give them something. This is why vaccines traditionally have had to be meeting a much higher safety criteria, or at least they should. That's the logic. So let me ask you about RNA vaccines.
- [34:19]
Tudor Dixon
So let me ask you about the COVID vaccine because I. Well, I have a specific question about it because the people that I know, the women that I know who took it, had immediate, an immediate impact on their menstrual cycle irregularities.
- [34:33]
Dr. Robert Malone
If nothing else.
- [34:35]
Tudor Dixon
It was, it was not good. And my daughter, I have four daughters, I said no. Every time I take them to the pediatrician, they say they're due for their COVID vaccine. And every time I have to say they're not getting it.
- [34:48]
Dr. Robert Malone
You're lucky that you still have a pediatrician.
- [34:51]
Tudor Dixon
Why is that not a thing anymore?
- [34:52]
Dr. Robert Malone
Pediatricians have been firing patients that don't complain.
- [34:56]
Tudor Dixon
Oh, yes, I know. That's actually what I have been afraid of is that they're gonna kick us out. And, and in, in West Michigan, there's not that many doctors I mean, our healthcare system took such a hit after what they did with COVID and shutting everything down and, and we do, we go in there and every time they say, I mean, it's so bizarre. Let me tell you what else are.
- [35:19]
Dr. Robert Malone
A classic example of someone that I, I specifically talk about with deep empathy that the, and I'll consider you a young parent. You have three daughters currently in pediatric age range. I'm, I'm an old parent. My kids are married and employed and educated. So we're in a different time of our life. But you're still in that position where you're faced with this dilemma which is even more severe for the new parents. They're the ones that I particularly, my heart goes out to because they're now in a position where if they have their eyes open, they often feel they can no longer rely on the government to be a purveyor of truth. And yet they are not medically educated. And so they have this, this fundamental dilemma which is you either, if you, if you, you can accept the government's recommendation, that's the ACIP recommendations, childhood pediatric schedule that has become a standard of care because of the ACIP all across the nation. And you can accept that. And if your eyes are open, if your child. There's a clear correlation from what I'm seeing in sudden Infant death syndrome in the short period of time after receiving pediatric vaccines in this young infant. And there is some, I don't know how much, but because we don't really have the data very clearly, there's some risk that your child may develop a post vaccination syndrome that might include central nervous system information, ergo brain swelling and damage. So if you accept the government's recommendations and your child develops one of these syndromes, then you're at risk for destroying your marriage and your family because of the psychological. And yet if you decide to go independent and create your own vaccine schedule, delay early vaccination, choose as a Chinese menu, I'm going to not do tetanus or hepatitis B, whatever the things are. Our human papillomavirus, often we have also.
- [38:18]
Tudor Dixon
Bowed out of that one and that one was one I got last week, that they're due for this right now. Your twins are due for this right now. I'm like, they're not getting that.
- [38:25]
Dr. Robert Malone
Yeah. So then if your child were to develop cervical cancer or in males, cancer of the throat in particular, that's associated with human papillomavirus, then you hate yourself for that. So you're in this logic trap where at some frequency, no matter what you choose, you're at risk for heavy personal psychological burden that you have failed as a parent. And it's just, it's almost intolerable. It's, it's heartbreaking that when I get these calls from young parents. And then there's the reproductive tract issues associated with women in particular. And I think the male impact may be relatively silent because men don't bleed, but men also have a lot of highly vascular tissue in their reproductive organs. So I'm choosing my words. So that is also at risk. And certainly the placenta and the uterine placenta junction and the role of the placenta in oxygen and nutrient transfer, when you have an agent that triggers coagulopathy is a problem. So unpack the rna. RNA Covid products hesitate to call them vaccines, are expressing a protein called spike and that protein is highly toxic. Now this is another thing that Wikipedia attacks me for, for spreading misinformation. But the data are quite clear that the spike protein of SARS CoV2 and particularly the engineered spike protein that is in the vaccines, because it's not even the natural. Spike protein is associated with not only myocarditis but coagulopathy, which is a fancy way of saying blood clots and strokes and infarcts in your brain. That's where blood vessels clot off or a clot gets thrown into your brain and blocks of blood vessels and all of these things are life threatening. And it's also associated with microvascular coagulation and that's what gets these highly vascular organs like the uterus, placenta. So spike protein is a toxin. I'm sorry Wikipedia, but data are overwhelming on that. It causes toxicity, therefore it is a toxic and it is produced up to 700 days after inoculation, according to a recent university study. It stays in your body a long time and part of that may be long term production. And that's the lead into the next key issue. These are not natural RNAs, not only are they gene therapy and I think that I, as the person that wrote the first invention disclosures about this and realize that RNA can be used as a drug and its leading indication would be as a vaccine before anybody else did whatever you want to say, yes, there were many people that added things afterwards, but I was the first and kind of broke this concept. But I was focused on using as natural an RNA as possible because RNA gets degraded very rapidly. And so the logic was with this type of a gene therapy approach as opposed to traditional ones, if there Was a toxicity like with any drug, the product, the drug product, the MRNA would degrade very rapidly and then the physician or treating person could decide not to redose it. That all got thrown out the door when Kiriko and Weissman, a decade after I did my work, came in and used the new emerging science of pseudouridine to generate synthetic RNAs that were very different from natural RNA and persist in your body for a very time. And they're very hard to degrade and they suppress immune response. That's why they included it as pseudouridine. And now we don't use the, in the products. The pseudouridine that's in there is not even natural pseudouridine, which wouldn't be present in place of all the use in an RNA molecule anyhow. But it is a synthetic one that makes those issues even stronger, more prominent. So the pseudouridine makes this kind of a, sorry, a loaded word, Frankenstein molecule. It's not rna. It is a synthetic chemical product that can be used to produce protein, but it is not messenger RNA that's made in the body. So there's the pseudouridine, there's a bunch of baggage around. Then there's the lipids that are used to deliver the rna. Is that the only way to deliver rna? No, there are other ways that you can deliver rna, but that happens to be the one that is currently used in all these products and those bat complexes that include these RNA and by the way, DNA fragments which are highly recomigenic, that are a product of crappy purification process process number two that involves plasmids and plasma, which is essentially the original process that I developed. But they didn't get the purification. I had to be obsessive about the purification back then. So those complexes also have direct toxicity. They cross the blood brain barrier, they trigger inflammation, extremely pro inflammatory. This is why I abandoned the technology in the 90s and moved on to other delivery systems. So can these be made non toxic? Well, there are ways that one might use a, for instance, a more natural RNA that didn't have the pseudo. You don't need the pseudo, it's just a convenient patent in some ways. The company called Curevac that was competing for these vaccines that was funded by a gentleman you've heard of before named Elon Musk, demonstrated with their clinical trials that dose for dose, they actually got an equivalent immune response to what you got with the pseudourine. But the difference was that Moderna and Bis and Biontech used a much higher dose in their initial clinical trials. And so they got more antibodies, they also got more toxicity. But the press totally zoomed in on more antibodies, more antibodies. Not. You know, there's no proof that those antibodies are therapeutic or prophylactic. But that's what happened was basically a propaganda campaign. And because CureVac did science the right way and was doing a more measured dose response approach to define what the right dose was as opposed to. And I have this on good authority, you know, kind of, hmm, guys, let's have a committee meeting and decide what dose we should use. And that. And they split the difference between a large part of the government. People involved in that committee wanted a much higher dose, some wanted a lower dose. They split the difference, and that was the dose that was used in Moderna. So that's not good science, but that's what they did. So you don't need to have pseudouridine, you don't need to have cation clipids, and you certainly don't need to use the intact toxic spike protein, which is why the new Moderna, what do they call it next spike or something like that, has a subunit fragment of the spike protein, but not the holoprotein. It's basically a tacit admission that they screwed up in using the total spike protein. So those things can all be addressed. And so in a cancer vaccine, which, by the way, cancer vaccines I've seen come and go entire career, even before that, my mentor, Murray Gardner, he founded the USC Cancer Center. And Murray used to tell a story that at the USC Cancer center, they would make custom vaccines using freunds or modified freunds, adjuvants, which is what you use for animal experimentation. Super inflammatory. And they had a. I'm going to say some things that might offend some people. So.
- [48:04]
Tudor Dixon
I'm ready.
- [48:06]
Dr. Robert Malone
There is a cohort that USC Cancer center would serve support of Hollywood actors in particular at the time, the 60s and early 70s, that would develop rectal cancer. And one of the things that Murray would do as the founder of that cancer center is he would take biopsy samples of those cancers, formulate them with adjuvants, reinject them into those guys, and in some fraction of those people, they would have a regression of that lesion. So, point is, cancer vaccines have been around for a very, very long time. And in general, just like Murray observed, some people respond and most people don't. And so it depends on the tech. Tech has gotten a little bit better. But this idea that was floated on day two of the Trump presidency that we're going to create this massive artificial Intelligence machine, and it's going to enable customized cancer MRNA vaccines is just a sales job. The science isn't there. It was resoundingly criticized by everybody virtually in the cancer vaccine space. And let's hope that they can solve the problems of cancer vaccines. But the truth is that by the, you know, we're all having cancer develop on a regular basis. I was trained and taught pathology for many years, and one of the clinical saws was if males live long enough, they will die with prostate cancer. That doesn't mean the prostate cancer will kill them. But if you do an autopsy and you section the prostate, you will find cancer there. And the point is that cancer is constantly being resisted by our immune system. So a case can be made that in your case or others, I don't know about your specific case, and I don't want to personalize it, but I just using in your case, there was a failure of the ability of your immune system to clear those cancer cells early on. And that means that the cancer cells are able to evolve under the pressure of your immune system to escape your immune system. Once they do that, then the opportunity to tweak your immune system to recognize and kill those cancer cells, which is part of its normal job, is less and less feasible. And so the thinking, frankly, this, in my opinion, this gets to one of the core. You call it naivete or you call it arrogance, that we as physicians and scientists believe that we're so brilliant, all our new tech and genomic sequencing, that we can best the natural evolved system of immunity by just turning up this dial and turning down that dial is to. And time has proven that to be the case, unfortunately. And so if AI is to be used in this space, I think the logic that, oh, we can just sequence somebody's genome or their cancer cells and figure out the special tweak that we have to do and then administer that special tweak as an RNA vaccine is grossly naive. Taking artificial intelligence and applying it to the bigger problem of this very complex interplay between cancer evolution and the adaptive immune system, particularly the cellular immune system, that I think has a lot of merit. And if the announcement had been that we're going to take this new, fantastic artificial intelligence supercomputer capability and apply it to trying to discern how these forces interact in a very complex way, I would have said, amen. That's a great idea. But the idea that we're going to have customized MRNA vaccines for cancer after decades of failure, using more traditional vaccine technology, I'll believe it. When I see it.
- [53:14]
Tudor Dixon
Okay, so don't get my hopes up for that. I got it. Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tutor Dixon Podcast.
- [53:23]
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- [54:22]
Bubba Wallace
And here we have a specimen from.
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Dr. Robert Malone
The early 2000s, a legacy investing platform. Please don't touch the exhibit, folks.
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Bubba Wallace
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- [54:54]
Dr. Robert Malone
I'm Molly Roberts. And I'm Drew Goins. Each Friday on Impromptu we talk through the questions we can't stop thinking about. Do we need to rethink how much we drink? Why are companies really asking workers to come back to the office? Does boycotting a business actually work? Should we quit social media?
- [55:10]
Tudor Dixon
We're here when the news gets personal.
- [55:11]
Bubba Wallace
And the headlines hit home.
- [55:14]
Dr. Robert Malone
Join Molly and me every Friday on Impromptu from Washington Post Opinions. Find impromptu wherever you get your podcasts.
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- [56:57]
Tudor Dixon
One thing that I do want to end on. You mentioned that these Covid vaccines, some of these spike proteins can be in your system for over 700 days.
- [57:07]
Dr. Robert Malone
I think that's Yale University peer reviewed study. So I'm not. That's not misinformation.
- [57:12]
Tudor Dixon
So, so I'm asked quite often what do I do if I took it? How do I how do I cleanse my system? How do I get the toxins out? Is your system doing that after 700 days or do we need to do something else?
- [57:24]
Dr. Robert Malone
So great question. And I have certain peers that lead companies that tout that they have a solution and that that company in particular is grossing I'm told by one of the major stockholders, 7 million a month plus selling kits and spike theoretical spike therapies and that are not clinically proven and that company will eventually be held to account. It's already been held to account because it was trying to market a GLP one that was infringed on patent estate of a very large pharmaceutical. So I wish that I could tell you this that the I was perhaps one of the first to popularize the idea that nattokinase, which has been shown in the test tube to break down spike protein and also break down some of these highly resistant clots may have value and nattokinase is derived from the other day I a couple months ago I went to Tokyo for a rallies protesting self replicating RNA vaccine and I got to encounter Natto. I'd never seen it before Natto is a nasty fermentation product. It smells horrid and the Chinese eat it for breakfast, bless their hearts. And nattokinase is derived from natto, so it's a natural product and it is orally bioavailable. That's a fancy way of saying you can take a pill and it will actually get into your body and it can, you can achieve levels of nattokinase in your body by taking these pills that are effective in breaking down spike protein and some of these clots, these very resistant clots. So it's a reasonable assumption that they may be. Nattokinase may be therapeutically effective. And nattokinase being a natural product is, falls under a different regulatory category in fda. So so long as you don't make a claim that it's going to do this, that you can sell nattokinase and I used to take it all the time, you can buy it from Amazon as nattokinase. They don't make any claims about what it's good for. They just say this is, you know, USD grade pharmaceutical nattokinase and bio beware. So that the problem with nattokinase has been learned is that in particular if you are on blood thinners and you take Nattokinase, it's basically also a blood thinner. And so you can find yourself having wet strokes as opposed to dry strokes, occlusion or clotting. You can have vascular leakage and hemorrhage and in a variety of ways, including not the least of which get in an automobile accident so you can have a ruptured spleen, et cetera, et cetera. So you, if you're going to use nattokinase as a supplement, really if you are somebody who is using blood thinners or at risk of bleeding, you really need to inform your doc and good to know there are other things that people are talking about in. The problem with this is the risk to the buyer, to the average person, even to me, is that you read about this fantastic claim. Often the person making the claim has some sort of a conflict of interest. They're either marketing the product or they're trying to elevate their social media position so they get more clicks like follows and that's monetized, et cetera. So you have to be cautious about these things. And that is technically why the FDA was created, was to ensure initially that products were pure and had the activity that they were being marketed as having. Originally, the FDA didn't provide assurance that products were effective. That was outside that was added. Initially, it was just about purity and identity. And so there are organizations that test these nutraceuticals that, you know, whether you're buying vitamin C or vitamin D or, or nattokinase or. Or whatever the latest thing is. And I take a handful twice a day for my wife. But you do need to ensure that they're pure. So that's what I can say about the clearance of the spike. Now, in theory, the antibodies that you raise should be resulting in these things being cleared in spleen in particular and in liver. But if the spike protein is glommed onto by antibodies, it can't really be filtered out of the kidney, so you're not going to pass it to the urine. And if it's resistant to degradation, but it's coated with antibodies, it doesn't get you where you need to go. You know, if it's resistant to cleavage, it can't be broken down and then you can't excrete the subunits. And hence the concern that Yale is detecting it 700 days after administration.
- [64:06]
Tudor Dixon
Interesting. Well, this has been fascinating. Like I said, I've been wanting to talk to you for a very long time and I appreciate you coming on the program today. Dr. Robert Malone, thank you.
- [64:17]
Dr. Robert Malone
Yeah, thanks. I hope what I've said has been helpful.
- [64:20]
Tudor Dixon
Very helpful. And we will be praying that you don't experience lawfare. I'm hoping that we can start to push back on some of this and people will see. But as you said, I don't have any hopes that that's the case because I know how this goes with people. But I appreciate the fact that I really like what you said about if you're called to serve, you will. I appreciate that.
- [64:41]
Dr. Robert Malone
Yes, ma' am. Thank you.
- [64:43]
Tudor Dixon
Thank you. And thank you all for listening to the Tutor Dixon podcast. For this episode and others, you can go to thetudixonpodcast.com iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And you can check out the full video on Rumble or YouTube uterdixon. Join us next time and have a blessed day.
- [65:01]
Bubba Wallace
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- [65:33]
Dr. Robert Malone
I'm Molly Roberts and I'm Drew Goins. Each Friday on Impromptu, we talk through the questions we can't stop thinking about. Do we need to rethink how much we drink? Why are companies really asking workers to come back to the office? Does boycotting a business actually work? Should we quit social media?
- [65:48]
Tudor Dixon
We're here when the news gets personal.
- [65:50]
Bubba Wallace
And the headlines hit home.
- [65:52]
Dr. Robert Malone
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- [66:30]
Colby Ekowitz
Rated M for Mature Online education is convenient, but sometimes it can be lonely. Sometimes the extra help you you need can only come from someone else. At American Public University, they make online education personalized, affordable and memorable. With 24. 7 mental health support available in multiple languages, access to career coaches who are industry professionals and lifelong career services, you'll never feel alone on your path to success. APU Digital by nature, human by design. Learn more at apu ap apus. Edu.
- [67:06]
Bubba Wallace
I'm Rodney Williams.
- [67:07]
Dr. Robert Malone
And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the wealthbreak podcast, a real conversation about finance.
- [67:14]
Bubba Wallace
Let's be honest, building weft doesn't look.
- [67:16]
Dr. Robert Malone
The same for everyone.
- [67:18]
Tudor Dixon
I feel like sometimes being broke is a cycle and that we might have.
- [67:21]
Dr. Robert Malone
To revisit that and we're not stopping at success stories.
- [67:25]
Colby Ekowitz
What happens when it doesn't go right?
- [67:27]
Dr. Robert Malone
How do you cope with it?
- [67:28]
Bubba Wallace
Because wealth. Wealth isn't just about money. It's about creating a life where you thrive and help others do the same.
- [67:34]
Dr. Robert Malone
Listen to the Wealth Break podcast on the iHeartradio app.
- [67:39]
Tudor Dixon
This is an iHeart podcast.