← The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Ozempic, Obesity & the Body Image Crisis: Aimee Donnellan Breaks Down the Truth
00:37:42
Loading summary
Transcript96 lines
- [00:00]
Amy Donelan
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:02]
Meco Mini Plus Advertiser
Guaranteed Human.
- [00:05]
Amy Donelan
Then the space hamster flew his hot.
- [00:08]
Meco Mini Plus Advertiser
Air balloon all the way to the bottom of the ocean. Where did that story come from? Book Dream? Nope. It came from a conversation. Meet Meco Mini plus the AI companion that co creates personalized story adventures with your child in real time. What color was the hamster's cape and.
- [00:27]
Amy Donelan
What did he pack for lunch?
- [00:28]
Meco Mini Plus Advertiser
Unlock your child's imagination. Discover Mikomini PL and the magic of AI Exclusively at Costco.
- [00:36]
Washington Post Advertiser
Ever wish you could try the Washington Post and see what all the talk is about? Right now you can with a one week pass for just $7. No commitment, no strings attached. Just $7 for one week of unlimited access to the Post. It's the perfect way to explore our award winning journalism and experience what subscribers already know. There's nothing else quite like it, so why not give us a try? Go to washingtonpost.com week and start your $7 one week pass today. That's washingtonpost.com week.
- [01:06]
Insider US Ski and Snowboard Advertiser
The world's best ski and snowboard athletes are chasing medals. Now you can follow their every move. Join Insider, the official US Ski and Snowboard Fan loyalty program and get premium viewing at World cup ski events, exclusive athlete meetups, discounts from brands you love and a custom welcome gift mailed direct to your doorstep this winter. Show your support as they race for the podium. Head to Insider, usski and snowboard.org and join today. Bring incredible sound into every corner of your home this holiday with the new Whimsound Smart Speaker. Get high resolution Audio with a 1.8-inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design in one powerful speaker for just $299. From Quiet Mornings to lively holiday gatherings, Windsound makes every moment sound better and feel better too. Get the gift of the season for the music enthusiast in your life or for yourself. Whimsound Beautifully designed, effortlessly connected. Shop now at Amazon and search Whim Sound. That's W I I m s o.
- [02:05]
Meco Mini Plus Advertiser
U n d this holiday season give the gift. Everyone will gather around a Vizio Smart TV now available at Walmart. From a super sized 100 inch TV to QLED TVs of all sizes, Vizio delivers breathtaking color and crystal clear picture quality that takes entertainment to the next level. Plus with Watch Free plus built in they can enjoy free live and on demand TV right out of the bo. Have a music lover on your list. They can stream their favorite music on the iHeartRadio app ready to go on every Vizio TV. The perfect gift is waiting. Head to Walmart.com and discover Vizio TVs.
- [02:36]
Tutor Dixon
Today you are listening to the Tudor Dixon podcast. And today we are talking about Ozempic. You guys have all heard all kinds of stories about Ozempic. Some of you probably have used it. Some of you may not know the whole history of what Ozempic is or how it even works. And that's why we decided to bring the author of the new book, off the Scales, the Inside Story of Ozempic and the Race to Cure Obesity, Amy Donelan. Thank you so much, Amy, for being on today.
- [03:05]
Amy Donelan
It's really great to be here. Thank you so much, Judah.
- [03:07]
Tutor Dixon
Absolutely. So, first of all, as I was reading through this, I didn't even, I guess we don't understand how drugs come to be. And there was a lot of work, years and years of work on this. It was obviously for, we, I think many of us know it was for diabetes, but then they started to see all of these other things. It has kind of set off a, a whole line of questions from all different industries. But tell us a little bit about how you got into figuring out how Ozempic came to be.
- [03:40]
Amy Donelan
Well, it's funny, actually. So I cover pharmaceuticals for Reuters, which is the news agency. So I cover Novo Nordisk, which is the company that makes Ozempic, and now Wegovy, which is the obesity drug. And it was actually during the pandemic that I was asked to write a piece about what was being called at the time virus vices. So this was basically the idea that people were sitting at home drinking, smoking, doing all sorts of things that were really, really bad for their health. And I was looking at all the, like, stocks of these companies really kind of just going up and up and up, and they were really benefiting from this. And then my editor at the time said, but what's the upshot of all this? What happens if everyone lives really unhealthy lives? And then we thought, diabetes. That's what happens. You get. Most people will get diabetes if they, you know, put on a lot of weight and as I said, live a very unhealthy life. So we looked at Novo Nordisk, and it had completely outperformed all the others. And that was sort of the Ozempic effect. And that was the first time I had ever, this was 2020, the first time I had ever really heard or seen anything about Ozempic. And bear in mind, I was covering pharmaceuticals, and this drug had already been on the market for about two years. So it was really bubbling under the surface for quite some Time.
- [04:53]
Tutor Dixon
That's what I wanted to say because I. In your book, I read that it. There was sort of a buzz in Hollywood around 2018, where one of the plastic surgeons in Hollywood started getting these calls. Like, I hear there's this miracle drug. And it started that these folks in Hollywood were actually getting it, which I think if we look back, we started to see people shed weight like you would not believe. Like, how is this happening? And all of a sudden it wasn't so much like we're body positivity. It was like, everybody needs to be thin again.
- [05:26]
Amy Donelan
Yes, absolutely. And that is definitely something that I explore in the book because 2018. Bear in mind, this is when the commercial came out, right, the ooozempic, which kind of went round and round in everyone's heads. And they do mention in that commercial, which came out like summer 2018, that there was weight loss. And that wouldn't be necessarily unusual for a pharmaceutical drug that there would be some weight loss. So they didn't make a big deal out of it. They didn't say, you know, you lose a ton of weight if you're on these drugs. But it was very much there. And yes, it was this Jason diamond, who is a plastic surgeon, he's been linked to Kim Kardashian and Katy Perry. And he basically said that, yes, it was, you know, producers, movie stars, TV stars being like, what is the situation with this diabetes drug? Because we hear it helps you lose weight. And you're right, it kind of crashed right into, I think, really the peak of body positivity. This is when people were really, companies like Abercrombie and Fitch were really being shamed for not having plus size models on their websites, not having enough varieties of clothing in their stores. So there was a big, big push at this time. And then, as you're right, once people realized there was this shot that they could take that could allow them to be thin, it seems like for a lot of people, body positivity just kind of went out the window.
- [06:43]
Tutor Dixon
But I think body positivity had been there because of something else that you write about, and that is the change in how our food is made and the portions that we were getting that we didn't realize were happening. You said that the, the current size of a side of fries at McDonald's is the size of the 1998 Super Size Me size he asked for in that movie. And that was stunning to me. I'm like, oh my gosh, how much are we eating?
- [07:12]
Amy Donelan
Yes, I, I found even, like, even More so like looking at the McDonald's, when McDonald's first came out, that they had one size of fries, that. That was it.
- [07:20]
Tutor Dixon
That, you know. And that. Yes, that. The small size. I remember when I was a kid, that was the only size.
- [07:25]
Amy Donelan
That was it. Yeah. So you didn't have these options for all sorts of different portions. And. And I have to say as well that one of the scientists in the book talks about. And when you think about it, it is baffling to think about free refills of sodas. Like this is why would you be offering more? And you're not getting any extra money for it. You're. You're actually just giving away a very unhealthy drink for free. Like it. It is. Yeah, I think that, that. And I, and I had to sort of wrestle a little bit with this as like a woman because you can see that there was definitely a period in the 50s and 60s where people were eating at home a lot and people didn't eat out a lot. And that was definitely when women were at home more. They were spending about three hours a day in the kitchen, literally like baking bread, all of these types of things. And then women really went back into the workforce, you know, but they were obviously in there during World War II and they went back into the workforce. And then you saw a kind of rise in convenience food because both typically, both parents were then working. There were single parent families. And then that essentially meant that companies like Nestle and the big food manufacturers were like, oh, okay, people need, they need ease. They need to be able to come home, have their dinner on the table in 15 minutes. So lots of jarred food, lots of canned food, lots of preservatives in order to keep those things fresh, let's call them fresh, but keep them from going off. And that obviously did lead to big problems. But one thing I would say as well is that when you do read the book and you look at the case studies, there doesn't really, in my opinion, seem to be much rhyme or reason to people becoming obese. That there was a girl who really starts the book off. Her mother is, you know, very attentive, makes food out of their vegetable patch in their garden. Like, by no means is this girl eating lots of junk food, but her body is bigger and she is more hungry than her sister and she continuously puts on weight as she gets older. And that is, I would definitely think that the food industry is a factor in that.
- [09:24]
Tutor Dixon
Well, and you had the twin study, so that was also interesting because they, which I thought, how much did they pay these people to be willing to do this? Because multiple twin, so identical twins, they. They fed them all a increased amount of calories, like 21200 extra calories and a day. And these people gained about 30 pounds, but they all gained it in different areas too. And some of them didn't gain weight. But so it was interesting because some twins no weight at all. Some twins up to 30 pounds. And some twins, they got it in the thighs and some twins got it in the stomach. But it wasn't consistent.
- [10:02]
Amy Donelan
No, no. And I think that that is. I think that one of the scientists that I spoke to for this book, who was one of the developers of Ozempic in Novo Nordisk in Denmark, is that he had this real battle within the company, within the bosses of this company, trying to explain to them really the causes of obesity. Because there was such a stigma. I mean, there still is a stigma, but there was such a stigma, such a stigma in the 90s about obesity. Nobody was calling it a disease in the mainstream. Nobody was kind of even thinking about it like that. And it was really seen as like, you don't have willpower, you are weak in some way, you can't help yourself eating all these huge portions, and that's why you're overweight. And he had to literally kind of trot a load of experts into these executives and say, here is the science, here are the people who will show you the genetic links. And actually, it goes back to like the ice age that we literally. You survived. If you could retain fat, that's what allowed you to kind of propagate the species, is that you could go into a cave for the really bad winters, and if you could hold onto as much fat as you could, you survived. And then that works fine if there isn't a lot of food around. But if there is abundant food and limitless food, which is the world that much of the Western world is living in now, it just doesn't work that our bodies just don't work in that way.
- [11:19]
Tutor Dixon
It was also interesting to listen to or read about Sarah, the character that the. Not a character. This is her real life, what you were talking about, where her parents or her mom was making food out of the garden, but she had gained weight, and at a certain point she had been about a hundred pounds overweight. And she was.
- [11:37]
Amy Donelan
So she.
- [11:37]
Tutor Dixon
She found Ozempic or one of the weight loss drugs, and she started taking it. She lost first. It was like 70 pounds. And overall, I think she ended up losing 100 pounds. She and her husband started doing things that they had never done before. So it very interesting because it wasn't just that her story struck me because she didn't just take the drug and lose weight and become thin. She changed her lifestyle because having less weight on her body, she was able to run a marathon, she was able to do exercise in a different way. It had changed her ability to live a healthier life because her. She wasn't fighting her body constantly gaining weight. But it also changed the way people treated her, which was. It's like a reality we don't want to talk about. We don't want to admit that people treat you differently if you're not overweight. And she very begrudgingly talks about this with you. It's like even my own father took longer to talk to me than he had in the past. That was kind of stunning. And I think it. It took us to a place where we said to ourselves as we read this, body positivity was never going to change. This inherent. I don't know, it's like this reaction to someone who we believe is overweight. And I do think that there is still a stigma attached that, like, you're not doing enough. But bodies are different. We find.
- [13:02]
Amy Donelan
I know I found that probably the most, like, sort of amazing thing writing this book was. And actually I thought that was probably, for me, the most interesting thing was sort of the societal impact of all of this. And as you said, that there is. And all of these people I spoke to for the book, they really didn't criticize their parents. She wasn't criticizing her father for the fact that he was more interested in her. Like I kind of said was, how was he as a dad? She's like, he was a great dad. He was always around. He was, you know, loving, but he just was a bit absent. Like, we'd be talking and I could just tell he wasn't really that interested in what I was saying. But then she loses all this weight and you see, it's hard to know, sort of chicken or the egg. Is it that she sort of comes out of herself in a way? Is it that she's getting such a, like, lovely response to herself in her life, in her work in Starbucks, when she goes into coffee, you know, for coffee, men are holding doors. Like, all of this is, like, surely boosting her. Maybe she is actually a much more engaging person because. Because of that. Because maybe she doesn't feel as, I don't know, inhibited.
- [14:07]
Tutor Dixon
And that's something that struck me when you had that in the book where she said I was introverted, but was I introverted because people didn't want to engage with me and then when they did, I came out of my shell in a different way and I was more willing to engage. And you kind of wonder if, I mean my dad, we, I think dads and daughters have like this period where you don't really understand each other when you're in your early, early twenties, like late teens. And then I. And that was kind of how my relationship was with my dad. And then I started working and as I was working and getting promotions, we had more to connect on. So you do kind of wonder if it was she massive promotions at work which she credited to losing weight, which is sad but a reality we should talk about. And then she had a better connection with other people. It's, it is all very interesting.
- [14:59]
Amy Donelan
It is, it is and it is. I think that's what I mean is I think when you delve into it, it's hard, as I said, it's hard to blame people. But there is something that really like when I started just asking people in my everyday life, you know, what is your experience of when you're thinner versus when you've got more weight on? And I'm like in my early 40s, so lots of my friends have had kids so they can kind of talk about this. And one friend of mine said that she was sitting around with all of her friends and they said that their moms are nicer to them when they're thinner. And I was like, what do you mean? And she said, I don't know, she's just nicer, she's more engaged more. And so I do think that. But that to me as well, I find it, I find like I have a daughter, I just find that baffling that I would be somehow treat her differently if she was smaller versus bigger. I just think that, yeah, you're right. There is something we have to kind of look at ourselves and I think that hopefully this book kind of makes you think about this is that there is this disease out there which is obesity. It does cause all sorts of health related problems. These drugs are really ideal for that in many ways. But there's also a lot of people, and I've spoken to a lot of these people as well who want to lose 20 pounds and they want to get back to what they were in their early 30s, late 20s. They really want that. And that is like Paramount. They'll go onto a website and buy a knockoff version of these drugs just to get that back. And I often say to them, I like, you know, would you do that with anything else? Would you buy any other hormone on the Internet and just take it without a thought?
- [16:35]
Tutor Dixon
Right? And that is the desperation of fitting in. Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tutor Dixon Podcast.
- [16:47]
Amy Donelan
Shh. You won't believe what my new friend.
- [16:50]
Tutor Dixon
Just told me about dinosaurs.
- [16:53]
Meco Mini Plus Advertiser
Is your child having conversations you never imagined? Are they learning without realizing it? It's not a tablet. It's not a toy. It's Meco Mini plus, the AI powered companion that turns curiosity into endless learning. Hear the future of playtime. Meet the extraordinary Meco Mini Plus Only at Costco.
- [17:16]
Washington Post Advertiser
Ever wish you could try the Washington Post and see what all the talk is about? Right now you can with a one week pass for just $7. No commitment, no strings attached. Just $7 for one week of unlimited access to the Post. It's the perfect way to explore our award winning journalism and experience what subscribers already know. There's nothing else quite like it. So why not give us a try? Go to washingtonpost.com week and start your $7 one week pass today. That's washingtonpost.com week.
- [17:47]
Insider US Ski and Snowboard Advertiser
The world's best ski and snowboard athletes are chasing medals. Now you can follow their every move. Join Insider, the official US Ski and snowboard fan loyalty program and get premium viewing at World cup ski event. Exclusive exclusive athlete meetups, discounts from brands you love and a custom welcome gift mailed direct to your doorstep this winter. Show your support as they race for the podium. Head to insider.usski and snowboard.org and join today. Bring incredible sound into every corner of your home this holiday with the new Wimsound smart speaker. Get high resolution audio with a 1.8-inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design in one powerful speaker for just $2.99. From Quiet Mornings to lively holiday gatherings, Windsound makes every moment sound better and feel better too. Get the gift of the season for the music enthusiast in your life or for yourself. Whim Sound Beautifully designed, effortlessly connected. Shop now at Amazon and search Whim Sound. That's W I I m s o.
- [18:46]
Meco Mini Plus Advertiser
U n d this holiday season, give the gift. Everyone will gather around a Vizio Smart TV now available at Walmart. From a super sized 100 inch TV to QLED TVs of all sizes, Vizio delivers breathtaking color and crystal clear picture quality that takes entertainment to the next level. Plus, with Watch Free plus built in, they can enjoy free Live and on Demand TV right out of the box. Have a music lover on your list. They can stream their favorite music on the iHeartRadio app. Ready to go on every Vizio TV. The perfect gift is waiting. Head to Walmart.com and discover Vizio TVs.
- [19:16]
Tutor Dixon
Today I look at my girls. I have four daughters. And I look at how life has been through elementary school, middle school, and high school, and just the size of kids compared to when I was young. And you talk about the food industry having changed when you talked about the fact that women are not able to spend three hours cooking at home anymore. It's not just that. It is that we are buying food that is quick and convenient, but also has addictive qualities that we didn't know were in there. So oftentimes we go to the grocery store and we're like, oh, this says something on it that looks. Looks like it's got vitamins or it's got protein or it's got something that makes you go, that means. That must mean it's healthy, but there's an addictive quality. So not only did we start to gain weight, but the food industry saw us as like. I mean, it's almost like, oh, we can get them addicted to this and we can get them addicted to that, just like nicotine or alcohol.
- [20:17]
Amy Donelan
So I don't. The thing is, I struggle a little bit with this idea because I don't necessarily think that there was. I don't know if they were like, it wasn't malicious.
- [20:27]
Tutor Dixon
It just happened that way.
- [20:28]
Amy Donelan
Yes, yes. I don't think it was as calculated as that. That's just my impression. Anyway, it was sort of like an awful accident in a way, that they put all these things into these foods really, to kind of prolong their shelf life, to boost their margins. I think that was really. The point of this was to make these companies more profitable. They could sell more.
- [20:46]
Tutor Dixon
There was a change in life. We had to make food faster.
- [20:49]
Amy Donelan
That's right. There are. But there were some sort of cynical things that they did. Like the cereal boxes, having the cartoons, like, you know, tiger that actually makes eye contact with kids when they're on, like, a certain shelf like that. To me, that feels like you're manipulating a consumer in order to get them to these things.
- [21:07]
Tutor Dixon
And the commercials and Saturday morning cartoons.
- [21:10]
Amy Donelan
Saturday morning. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And. And I used to eat lots of cereal when I was a kid. Now I kind of think when I look at my kids, I'm like, they should really be eating protein in the morning. They should be eating yogurt, they should be eating all these different things. But, but, and I do like, to your point about like the supermarkets, I do go into a grocery store and I spend a lot of time reading the back of labels. I spend like more time than I would like to thinking about how much sugar is in this, you know, what stabilizer are there excess ingredients that don't need to be in there? If there are, can I, can I buy something else? And I think that's, that's very tiresome for that we're even in the situation where, where that is, you know, that is what's going on.
- [21:47]
Tutor Dixon
Yeah. You feel betrayed that you have to do that. Like, why do I have to read to see if you are putting something poisonous? Which I agree. I think it kind of was the perfect storm of we have to create something that has a long shelf life but also can be made quickly and actually consist of a meal. And ultimately we've been putting this into our bodies with. And I think the sugar content seems to be really high on a lot of these things. I mean, you talk about Nestle and some of the food, the, the foods that they have and they're, I mean, oftentimes those foods are like breakfast type foods and they have vitamins and all these like important things, but they're also filled, filled, filled with sugar. And we've gotten used to saying, well, if they're getting chocolate milk, it's okay because they're getting milk. But then you look at the amount. I mean, it's like, why don't you just pour in 3 tablespoons of sugar into their mouths in the morning?
- [22:44]
Amy Donelan
Yes. And one thing as well that also really kind of gets to me is this sort of double speak about nutrition, like, nutrition that it has all these vitamins, as you said, and all of these things. But the fact is it's not food in terms of like a whole food that you and I would know it or, or food that you know, because whole foods fills you up like a chicken breast, a salmon fillet, these things fill you up. But actually the types of ready meals and all of those things, lots of additives, they actually don't make you feel full. And typically you're, I mean, if you eat at McDonald's, you're often hungrier an hour later. And it is this kind of, as you said, this kind of cocktail of fat and sugar and salt, which, which do nothing for us, I think in terms of our, our health, I guess.
- [23:23]
Tutor Dixon
That'S been kind of the, the stunning Thing to find out is that we're eating food that is making us want to eat more food, and that it makes so much sense now. You can see it. I mean, I remember when I was young and in high school, everybody decided to go fat free, which was silly. Now we know that we would have an entire pantry filled with fat free cookies. What a stupid thing. I mean, but we were like, oh, we're not gonna get any weight. We're eating a massive amount of fat free cookies.
- [23:56]
Amy Donelan
But I think that, I think that is funny. But I think also in a way which I think is terrible is you thought you were doing the right thing. You. You were responding to a company telling you that this was somehow healthier than if you had just eaten one full fat chocolate chip cookie. And you would have known that that was how many calories were in it and it wasn't healthy for you. It would have been seen as a treat. But I think these companies, which again, I kind of delve into in the book, is they are really now facing a reckoning which is that the people who are going on these drugs don't want their food. And there was this very interesting daily podcast from the New York Times where they kind of followed people around who were on the drugs. And they walk right past the Doritos, all of the processed food, and they go straight for the produce aisle. They're going, vegetables. I've spoken to a lot of people, a lady I spoke to for the book who told me basically that she was. Her and her husband were trying to buy a house. So they were really watching what they spent. So she knew how much she was spending on takeout every month. And then she goes on these drugs and that takeout bill goes down to zero. So she said, I was just craving salmon and vegetables and really healthy food. That's all I wanted. And all that other stuff made me feel kind of sick. But then she decided she wanted to have a baby. So she goes off the drugs and she watches that takeout bill go right back to where it was before she went on them. So that's the other thing.
- [25:20]
Tutor Dixon
It's a hormone, so it makes you think, like, okay, so I must be missing something. And if I'm taking this, then this must be like, like the answer to everything. And I've always been told, if it's too good to be true, it cannot possibly be true. But people are losing a massive amount of weight.
- [25:37]
Amy Donelan
Their.
- [25:37]
Tutor Dixon
Their heart disease is getting better, diabetes is getting better, heart or blood pressure is getting better. So why isn't everybody on this.
- [25:47]
Amy Donelan
So there's a few things. It's a hormone, first of all, and it's a very, very powerful hormone. This is the hormone that is created in your stomach when you eat like a Thanksgiving dinner. So this is the hormone that basically tells you you're full, you don't need any more. It sends a message up your vagus nerve up to your brain and it's like, stop eating. It's a very important hormone. So I think that there is very specific prescription rules about this drug, which is that you need to have a BMI of over 30, which means that you are living with obesity. And typically in a lot of countries in Europe anyway, you need another sort of ailment that's associated. So that's like type 2 diabetes, it could be kidney disease, it could be fatty liver disease. So. So I think at the moment there's no trials going on of healthy people taking these drugs, as in like healthy weighted people taking these drugs.
- [26:35]
Tutor Dixon
I'm hearing though that doctors are telling people, healthy people, people with a lower BMI to micro dose this, like, oh, you should just, just to keep yourself at that weight or even lower. I mean, I know for a fact that I know people who are at an unhealthy weight, who are using. Somehow they've gotten this. I don't know if it's telemedicine or what, but somehow they're getting it. I don't know if they're lying or what.
- [27:02]
Amy Donelan
There is again, like, I, whenever I go to like dinner parties or drinks, people tell me all the lengths that their friends have gone to to get these drugs. So one thing people will do for telehealth is a good example. They'll stand on a weighing scales and they'll hold like a weight, like, you know, like a 10 kilogram weight or like 20 pound weight. And that will show that the scales is higher because that's one of the things that like telehealth want to see is that you have like, obviously they know what your height is and then they know what your weight is. Another thing is that they might like wear a bulky coat so they look bigger. Other people have kind of squeezed folds into their stomach.
- [27:34]
Tutor Dixon
Well, think about that. That, that goes to what you were saying. Like, would you do this with anything else? Would you just put any other hormone in your body? We are so desperate to be thin.
- [27:42]
Amy Donelan
Yes, yes. So I think that there. And again, there is a, there is a chapter of the book that really kind of goes through the side effects and, and for some people, they're okay and they can manage them. But there is, for most people, they experience some level of nausea, diarrhea, like gastric issues, because it's your gut that these hormones are affecting. Then there's the people who have really kind of. Then they have like really chronic terrible symptoms where they really can't stomach any food. And eventually they come off them. And about 50% of people who go on these drugs a year later, they come off them. And that could be a number of factors that could be they just get fatigued taking a drug. It could be that the side effects are too bad. It could be that the cost is too high. But to your point, why is everybody not taking them? Even the people who are taking them are not staying on them. So that shows that there are flaws in these drugs. And I think that side effects would probably be a very big one, which is why what a lot of friends of mine say, who are 10, 15 pounds, that they see above what they should be. I do say to them, this is a very powerful drug. And, yeah, we've got about 20 years of data, and that's a lot of data. That's enough, I think, to probably say that it's unlikely that these things will cause cancer and things like that. But at the same time, you are using a very powerful pharmaceutical drug that was intended for people living with a deadly disease that causes cancers and type 2 diabetes and all sorts of other awful things. They are not intended for people, in my opinion, to microdose. Unless a doctor is really properly telling you that and the FDA has told you that that's okay, right?
- [29:20]
Tutor Dixon
Because there's this situation where you're. You start to lose muscle. It's not just that you lose weight, you. So I find it interesting because the big food market, I guess, big food industry is looking at this now and they're like, okay, people aren't eating our Doritos, so let's put protein into pasta and tell them this is healthy. And let's make high fib, like, this is high fiber. And then the supplement industry gets in because people's hair is falling out. I'm like, what in the world? If I already have my hair falling out, I don't need more hair. I mean, I'm thin, but bald. Like, what? This is not a good compromise. And then you see Starbucks, Starbucks has these protein infused coffees. I'm like, why do I need protein infused coffee? And I don't. And then I don't know that. So I think I'm not On Ozempic, am I like, oh, because I am also a marketer's dream. When I see that, I'm like, like amazing. I must need a protein infused coffee, but I don't. So then I buy it. And I think this is also a disaster.
- [30:19]
Amy Donelan
It goes back to your fat free cookies. Like it is, it's, it is, it's true. It's all this, it's all this idea. You're close. Exactly. I think that that is probably in my opinion the most depressing thing that has happened, which is that if you, as you said, if these drugs are so good and at controlling your heart disease and preventing strokes and preventing people from going on kidney dialysis, which there is data to suggest that as well. But then the food industry actually decides, well, actually you might be craving a salmon fillet, but I can make you this ready meal that can sit on a shelf for a year and it tastes just like that salmon fillet that you're craving. And the problem goes on. And I think that's not a good place to be in. And I think that I did mention this to one of the scientists who was involved in creating things and she was just so mad when I told her that. She just was like, oh my God. No, no, no. This was, these are supposed to be fixing this problem. So yeah, I think that.
- [31:19]
Tutor Dixon
So they've figured out a way because I, I find it interesting that you're like, okay, so people start craving salads and they go to the pro or the, the produce section and they're getting like, you know, those fresh crunchy foods. And then you read that big food is like, we've decided it's a mouthfeel thing that they don't like from our old addicted to. So now we're going to make it crunchier. They are kind of mimicking the mouth feel, which I don't like that word. It freaks me out for some reason. But the mouthfeel of fresh food in a highly processed food to get us back into eating bad food, which is cra. I mean, I get it, it's. This is capitalism, this is an industry. But I still am like, oh my gosh, this is how crazy what we're eating actually is.
- [32:07]
Amy Donelan
I think, I think the mouth feel, I agree with you. I remember hearing that term for the first time and I was like, that is the most disgusting thing I've ever heard of. Like that, this, that, like yogurt, apparently low fat yogurt really doesn't have a good mouth feel to it. Like doesn't have the same as, like full fat yogurt does. So they're always trying to figure out ways to tweak it.
- [32:23]
Tutor Dixon
Chalky and not smooth.
- [32:25]
Amy Donelan
Yeah. Yes. So they do. They spend a lot of time. But I think that what food manufacturers are thinking is that people are ultimately lazy and not even like time poor, just a bit lazy. So if you think to yourself that you don't like soda anymore, so you, like, are squeezing your lemons into your water and you're, you know, that's what you're craving. They're like, don't squeeze the lemon. We'll squeeze the lemon for you. And we have to do some other things to it too, but we'll do that. And then you can buy it in cans, you put it into your shelf, and it's all great. So I do think that that's the way they're going to get around this. But I think when you look at the valuations of these companies, the stock price of these companies, I don't think that's what investors think is going to happen. I. Investors think that these guys are going to get smaller and that is just going to be a reality, that maybe they can do tweaks around the edges. But if you're not. If you're not craving this stuff and you walk into a supermarket and you see this lovely chicken breast that looks great, maybe that is what you're going to go for rather than the ready meal. And I think, yeah, I think hopefully that's the future.
- [33:25]
Tutor Dixon
It has made me rethink everything. I mean, and I had already. I had already been looking, you know, I'd already been curious about what's in the labels and how do I adjust what the girls are eating and how do I try to be more focused on what we're eating. But you do. You get busy, you to run back to the office, you're like, oh, I'll just get chick fil a on my way home. I mean, I am guilty of that. And then you just said that thing about the water, and I'm like, I fell for this. Yesterday I went to the airport and there was a water that was called hint because it had a hint of watermelon flavor. And I'm like, that sounds lovely. What else was in it? I have no. And where did the watermelon flavor come from? Because it didn't look like watermelo. Yes, I'm still falling for it.
- [34:06]
Amy Donelan
Absolutely. Absolutely. But I mean, I have spoken to people who say that this will be like statins in the future, like these drugs will be like statins that you will reach a certain age and most people will be on them. And I think that that does speak to the fact that in America, for example, about 70% of people are overweight or living with obesity. So that would be most people would be on these drugs.
- [34:29]
Tutor Dixon
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tutor Dixon Podcast.
- [34:36]
Amy Donelan
Shh. You won't believe what my new friend.
- [34:40]
Tutor Dixon
Just told me about dinosaurs.
- [34:42]
Meco Mini Plus Advertiser
Is your child having conversations you never imagined? Are they learning without realizing it? It's not a tablet. It's not a toy. It's Meco Mini plus, the AI powered companion that takes turns curiosity into endless learning. Hear the future of playtime. Meet the extraordinary Meco Mini plus only at Costco.
- [35:05]
Washington Post Advertiser
Ever wish you could try the Washington Post and see what all the talk is about? Right now you can, with a one week pass for just $7. No commitment, no strings attached. Just $7 for one week of unlimited access to the Post. It's the perfect way to explore our award winning journalism and experience what subscribers already know. There's nothing else quite like it. So why not give us a try? Go to washingtonpost.com week and start your $7 one week pass today. That's washingtonpost.com week.
- [35:36]
Insider US Ski and Snowboard Advertiser
The world's best ski and snowboard athletes are chasing medals. Now you can follow their every move. Join Insider, the official US Ski and snowboard fan loyalty program, and get premium viewing at World cup ski events. Except exclusive athlete meetups, discounts from brands you love, and a custom welcome gift mailed direct to your doorstep this winter. Show your support as they race for the podium. Head to insider.usski and snowboard.org and join today. Bring incredible sound into every corner of your home this holiday with the new Whim Sound Smart speaker. Get high resolution Audio with a 1.8-inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design in one powerful speaker for just $2.99. From Quiet Mornings to lively holiday gatherings, Windsound makes every moment sound better and feel better too. Get the gift of the season for the music enthusiast in your life or for yourself. Whim Sound Beautifully designed, effortlessly connected. Shop now at Amazon and search Whim Sound. That's W I I m s o.
- [36:35]
Meco Mini Plus Advertiser
U n d this holiday season, give the gift of incredible sound with Vizio's full Soundbar lineup available at Walmart. Transform any living room into a home theater with rich immersive of audio that brings every movie, show and song to life. Whether you're gifting a loved one or Upgrading your own setup. Vizio soundbars deliver powerful, crystal clear sound that turns ordinary watching into extraordinary experiences. Stream your favorite holiday Playlist with the iHeartRadio app and discover how good your music can truly sound. Head to Walmart.com and find your perfect Vizio soundbar today.
- [37:08]
Tutor Dixon
Okay, but you are thin, but you look different. It's not the same thin as just a healthy thin. And you can definitely tell that the muscle tone is not there or it's like weird. The muscles are sticking out and the skin is hanging. It's like a weird look. I mean, you brought up Katy Perry and I'm not saying Katy Perry is on this, but I did see a picture of her with the Prime Minister who is apparently now her boyfriend of Canada with the Prime Minister of Japan, I think. And I was like, this is going to be your best look, right? Because you are going to look as good as you can to go meet the Prime Minister of Japan, I mean, I would think. And she looked like like hell, I have to say. And I'm. I'm not someone that like rips on people. I mean, she looked beautiful because she's Katy Perry, but she just didn't look like Katy Perry. I should say that. Not like hell. I didn't like the way she had her hair styled. But you know what? Teach their own. But her face does look sunken in and she has, it doesn't look like her face. It's just like she looks very different. And her, and her body is not. There's no shape to it. It's just like she was like a line with arms. It's a strange look. It doesn't look the same as your. Yourself if you just lost weight working out. Which I, and I also understand that that's also not something everybody can do. But I feel like there are certain people who. Katy Perry was never like obese.
- [38:34]
Amy Donelan
So I think the one thing that I would say about all of this and I, I have to say I. The one thing I guess I'm uncomfortable about is even like discussing people who might be on these drugs or might not be on these drugs just because I think that speaks to like again, this whole idea of like people's bodies are sort of like a commodity that we could just like, you know what I mean? Like we could just discuss. But I think to the point about there are side effects that go along with these drugs. So for example, you get hollowed out cheeks. So one of the people I spoke to for the book, she talked about having actually to go through A lot of plastic surgery after losing a lot of weight. She said that she could hold literally like handfuls of her skin and her back and her buttocks because she was losing so much weight. And I think to your point about is if you were to diet and exercise, you lose about 25% muscle mass when you do that. That's a lot. But that's a nat. That's like, let's call it a natural diet. If you're on ozempic, you lose 40% muscle mass.
- [39:33]
Tutor Dixon
Are you serious?
- [39:34]
Amy Donelan
40%. And that is really bad if you are older because you become more prone to falls. There was a lady I listened to, I went to a conference in Texas last year, and it was an obesity conference. So everyone there was like an expert in obesity. And there was a lady who was running a trial with veterans who were taking Ozempic and these weight loss drugs. And she got a call from the guy who was running the data. It was like, you need to stop this trial. And she said, why? And he said, they're losing too much muscle. This is really dangerous for them. They're gonna start having falls. They're gonna start having bad falls. And then she said that they had this big kind of discussion about the fact that they. Which was worse. Which was worse of the obese effects. Like, basically the problems with the disease for these falls. And what they decided was they would monitor the falls, make sure that the falls weren't happening. But that would be something that you would start to see with people losing a lot of muscle mass. So that is. And when I speak to endocrinologists, so these are the people. This is another reason, I think, why everyone shouldn't be on these drugs is if you're being prescribed these drugs properly under the guidance and supervision of a doctor, they will see the symptoms and they will be looking at your body going, okay, so enough of that. Let's keep you on this dose a little bit longer because your stomach side effects are too bad or you're losing too much muscle mass. But if you're at home and you've just bought these as, like a compound from your pharmacy, nobody's watching you, nobody's observing you. I do think that this would have a lot of effects on your body. Body and effects that, like, as you said, effects that maybe are not the way they should be or have to be. But, yeah, I think that that's kind of what we're seeing with certain people who lose a huge amount of weight very, very quickly.
- [41:16]
Tutor Dixon
I have so many more questions, but I know we're out of town time. I know I, I have seen, you know, we've seen like people that, it shows, it's in their refrigerator when they're doing some reality show or something. And you can you see that hollowed out, out cheek look. And you know, I think we're all very curious. Everyone is curious because no matter what, I mean, as you get older, you're right, your body changes and you're like, this seems so easy. All I have to do, I want to not have to work out. I want to not have to change what I eat. I want something that I inject that just makes me change what I eat. I want it to just happen, you know, because I'm lazy and we are all lazy. I mean, let's face it, that sounds lovely. It's just gonna do it for me. But that's why are so curious as to like, okay, what is it really? Like, I read this terrible story which I don't even know if this is true, but I read this story where some people's skin is almost like it's not attached to their, their body anymore. Like the Ozempic had some weird effect on them. Like, that sounds terrible. Does it reattach if you stop? I doubt it. I don't know. It freaks me out.
- [42:25]
Amy Donelan
I haven't heard that. But I, I will leave you with, with one anecdote which again I think speaks to what you're talking about, about how desperate people are. A woman I spoke to said that she was really trying to get these drugs. Now she is not overweight by any means. And every doctor she went to, the doctor was like, no, absolutely not. You do not fit the criteria for these drugs. I'm not prescribing them to you. So she's talking to one of the mothers that drop off and they are a doctor and they're like, I could get you some Ozempic. I'll get you some Ozempic. So she goes on Ozempic and we had this discussion and I said, why are you taking this? This is crazy. And you're not overweight. And she said, I have this weight. I've had 3K. I want to lose this weight. I'm just going to do this. And then I said, but what happens if this causes you long term problems? What if this shortens your life somehow? And she said, I would rather die thin at 60 than live until I was 80 and be fat.
- [43:19]
Tutor Dixon
Isn't that terrible that we feel that way?
- [43:21]
Amy Donelan
And I said, you would miss grandkids Weddings, all sorts of things. And she said, yep, that's how. That's how important it was to her. Her.
- [43:30]
Tutor Dixon
So obviously our body positivity campaign didn't actually work. Well, it stinks.
- [43:37]
Amy Donelan
I.
- [43:37]
Tutor Dixon
And I don't like that. It's not. This is not something that I take joy in. I didn't think it was working, but I also. It was a weird situation because we felt like we were celebrating being unhealthy. But then now when I read your book, you go through all of the different body types and how people react differently. I'm like, well, maybe we just needed to be smarter about the fact that our bodies process. Everybody's body is processing something differently. And it is really hard to get good food. And maybe we need to be pushed back on the big food industry to say, you gotta take some of the stuff out. Which I think we're starting to say that. But it is all crazy.
- [44:14]
Amy Donelan
All crazy. Absolutely.
- [44:15]
Tutor Dixon
Okay, so tell people where they can get the book because it is very insightful. And I do think that if you're curious about Ozempic and you're curious about your weight off the scales, the inside story of Ozempic and the race to cure obesity is for you. So tell us where to find it.
- [44:30]
Amy Donelan
You can find it on Amazon. You can find it on Barnes and Noble. You can find it on Target. You can find it pretty much at any bookstore, so.
- [44:37]
Tutor Dixon
And where can people follow you?
- [44:40]
Amy Donelan
You can follow me. I'm on X and I'm on LinkedIn. I have like a personal account which nobody will be interested in because it's my kids basically on Instagram, but I think x basically, and LinkedIn is where you could find.
- [44:52]
Tutor Dixon
Okay, awesome. Amy Donnelan, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I appreciate it. It was an. An enlightening conversation.
- [45:00]
Amy Donelan
Very nice to talk to you too, tutor. Thank you.
- [45:02]
Tutor Dixon
Absolutely. And thank you all for listening to the Tutor Dixon podcast. You know where you can get it? The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And you can watch it on rumble or YouTube, uterdixon. But make sure you join us next time and have a very blessed day.
- [45:22]
Amy Donelan
Then the space hamster flew his hot.
- [45:24]
Meco Mini Plus Advertiser
Air balloon all the way to the bottom of the ocean. Where did that story come from? Book dream? Nope. It came from a conversation. Meet Meco Mini plus, the AI companion that co creates personalized story adventures with your child in real time. What color was the hand hamster's cape?
- [45:44]
Amy Donelan
And what did he pack for lunch?
- [45:45]
Meco Mini Plus Advertiser
Unlock your child's imagination. Discover Miko, Mini plus and the Magic of AI Exclusively at Costco.
- [45:52]
Washington Post Advertiser
Ever wish you could try the Washington Post and see what all the talk is about? Right now you can with a one week pass for just $7. No commitment, no strings attached. Just $7 for one week of unlimited access to the Post. It's the perfect way to explore our award winning journalism and experience with subscribers already know there's nothing else quite like it, so why not give us a try? Go to washingtonpost.com week and start your $7 one week pass today. That's washingtonpost.com week the world's best ski.
- [46:24]
Insider US Ski and Snowboard Advertiser
And snowboard athletes are chasing medals. Now you can follow their every move. Join Insider, the official US Ski and Snowboard fan loyalty program and get premium viewing at World cup ski events. If exclusive athlete meetups, discounts from brands you love and a custom welcome gift mailed direct to your doorstep this winter. Show your support as they race for the podium. Head to insider.usski and snowboard.org and join today. Bring incredible sound into every corner of your home this holiday with the new Wimsound smart speaker. Get high resolution audio with a 1.8 inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design 9 in 1 powerful speaker for just $2.99. From Quiet Mornings to lively holiday gatherings, Windsound makes every moment sound better and feel better too. Get the gift of the season for the music enthusiast in your life or for yourself. Whim Sound Beautifully designed, effortlessly connected. Shop now at Amazon and search Whimsound. That's wiim S O U n D.
- [47:23]
Amy Donelan
I use Shipt Same day delivery to stay connected with my sister during the holiday. She lives across the country. Shipt has tons of stores to order from. Groceries from Albertsons, crafts from Michaels, even pet supplies from petsmart. The list goes on. So when we have long distance movie nights, I turn to Shipt to get face masks, snacks and everything else we need delivered to her and to me same day. Download the app or visit shipt.com that's S H ipt.com this is an iHeart podcast.
- [47:55]
Meco Mini Plus Advertiser
Guaranteed Human.