The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Rethinking Homelessness—Why “Housing First” Isn’t Enough

Guest: Michele Steeb
Date: September 17, 2025
Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show (iHeartPodcasts)
Host: Tudor Dixon

Episode Overview

This episode dives deeply into the pressing and persistent issue of homelessness in the United States, specifically challenging the “Housing First” model that has dominated federal and state policy for over a decade. Tudor Dixon hosts Michele Steeb, a seasoned expert who has spent 13 years as CEO of Northern California’s largest homeless program and authored Answers Behind the Red: Battling the Homelessness Epidemic. Together, they discuss why simply providing housing to the homeless is failing, the bureaucratic and political obstacles to real solutions, and hopeful, human-focused alternatives to current policy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Critique of "Housing First" Policy

Timestamps: 03:37–10:42

• "Housing First" Model Origins and Flaws

  • Introduced in 2008 for the “chronically homeless” (10–20% of the population) under Bush; expanded nationwide without evidence in 2013 by the Obama administration ([03:37]).
  • Promised to end homelessness in a decade, but it’s up nearly 35% since implementation.
  • “It’s been a disaster at every level of the system. It’s destroyed lives. It’s destroyed communities.” — Michele Steeb [03:37]

• Defunding Support Services

  • HUD redirected funding away from mental health care, addiction treatment, and job training, focusing resources almost exclusively on housing subsidies ([08:03]).

• Fatal Flaws in the Philosophy

  • "They believed that once the homeless were housed, they would...desire services and they could request those services. But what no one talks about is when...they rolled out Housing first as a one size fits all approach in 2013, HUD actually defunded services like mental health treatment, drug and alcohol counseling, employment training." — Michele Steeb [08:03]
  • Study in Boston: Of the chronically homeless placed in housing, nearly 50% had died within 10 years, often from untreated addiction or mental illness ([08:48–10:09]).

2. The Role of Bureaucracy and Lack of Accountability

Timestamps: 05:17–07:14, 22:56–25:53

• Massive Spending, Minimal Results

  • "In San Francisco alone, there are 12 nonprofits...under investigation for misuse of funds and/or fraud." — Michele Steeb [06:02]
  • Suggestion that entrenched bureaucracies and nonprofits have little incentive to end homelessness: “Once you get to a point where you have a government agency that has a $600 million budget, who wants to shut down their own department, right?” — Tudor Dixon [05:17]

• Culture of Corruption and Scandal

  • L.A. county homelessness agency cited for misuse of funds and hiring questionable contractors ([06:28]).

• Policy Decisions Without Accountability

  • California doubled down on “Housing First” in 2016 and kept local governments locked into it.
  • “He (Newsom) has kept counties and cities under the thumb of housing first. They have no other alternative but to build more housing units and subsidize them with the funding that they get from, you know, the state.” — Michele Steeb [24:19]

3. Why “Housing First” Isn't Enough: Ignoring Mental Health and Addiction

Timestamps: 07:19–12:15, 14:34–16:24

• Mental Health and Anosognosia

  • Up to 80% of the homeless struggle with mental illness and/or addiction; many lack self-awareness of their disease, making voluntary treatment extremely unlikely ([08:48]).
  • “[When] we put people in a house...we isolate them from community...expect them to gain some, you know, miraculous clarity that they really need help. It’s just not happening.” — Michele Steeb [10:07]

• Institutional Failure and Historical Context

  • Past federal psychiatric institutions had poor outcomes and were closed during the Reagan era, but the vacuum of treatment systems has never properly been filled ([10:42]).

4. A Human-First Approach: What Actually Works

Timestamps: 12:15–16:24, 26:53–31:09

• Comprehensive, Structured Programs

  • For women and children, Michele’s model involved 12–18 months of:
    • Sober, accountable community living
    • Mental health and addiction counseling
    • Employment training (via on-site restaurants and daycare)
    • Robust children’s programming
    • Financial literacy, fine resolution, and life skills development
  • “All of those things need to be addressed...you really can’t underestimate the fundamentals, right, the basics. But you also can’t underestimate the lack of role models they've had in their lives of people who are working, who are self-sustaining and thriving.” — Michele Steeb [14:34]

• Defining Real Success

  • Old metric: simply getting someone keys to a unit.
  • New metric: stability, recovery, independence, job readiness, healthy family life.
  • “We wanted to support these women in becoming the primary providers of their families and no longer being dependent on government and on substances...” — Michele Steeb [26:53]

• Gradual, Individualized Recovery

  • Recovery and stabilization built “an hour at a time,” especially early in recovery from addiction or mental illness ([26:53]).

5. Political, Policy, and Social Implications

Timestamps: 19:17–25:53, 30:46–32:44

• Public Backlash and Propaganda

  • Attempts to clean up encampments facing organized resistance.
  • “My friend...who runs...‘We Heart Seattle’...is under constant physical, verbal and physical attack because she's helping these individuals in a way our government has failed them." — Michele Steeb [21:41]

• Need for PR and Narrative Change

  • “It sounds like a PR campaign is needed…because there are so many people…that don’t have the knowledge that you have that really there’s a solution to get people back on track.” — Tudor Dixon [30:46]

• Call for Accountability and System Reform

  • Federal executive orders are signaling a shift away from “Housing First” toward a treatment- and recovery-focused system.
  • Success will depend not just on federal, but strong state and local implementation ([32:02]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Failure of Housing First:
  “It’s been a disaster at every level of the system. It’s destroyed lives. It’s destroyed communities.”
  — Michele Steeb [03:37]

• On the Data:
  “Despite the promise [homelessness] would end in 10 years, it’s up 35%...when diseases go untreated, they get worse. And that’s what happen when we stick people in a house.”
  — Michele Steeb [08:48]

• On Systemic Incentives:
  “Once you get to a point where you have a government agency that has a $600 million budget, who wants to shut down their own department, right?”
  — Tudor Dixon [05:17]

• On Real Solutions:
  “All of those things need to be addressed...you really can’t underestimate the fundamentals, right, the basics. But you also can’t underestimate the lack of role models they’ve had in their lives of people who are working, who are self-sustaining and thriving.”
  — Michele Steeb [14:34]

• On Hope and Roadmap:
  “If I can leave your listeners with anything, it’s to have hope. And these executive...the executive order is exactly what we needed to build a system that will lead the homeless to hopeful, restored lives and our communities to the same.”
  — Michele Steeb [31:09]

Timestamps for Other Important Topics

• Corruption and Scandals in Nonprofits: 06:02–07:14
• Mental Health Institutional History: 10:42–11:53
• Homelessness and Local Business Impact: 23:22–23:55
• Public Attitudes—“Free” vs. Accountability: 38:10–39:21
• Promoting Hope and Learning More: 31:09–40:04

Final Thoughts

The episode builds a nuanced case that while providing a roof is necessary, true recovery from homelessness requires comprehensive, individualized support—mental health care, addiction treatment, life skills, job readiness, and community. “Housing First” as a mandated, one-size-fits-all policy, Steeb and Dixon argue, has failed both morally and in outcomes, leaving more people suffering and communities struggling.

Michele Steeb’s Book & Resources

• Book: Answers Behind the Red: Battling the Homelessness Epidemic (Available on Amazon) [39:21]
• Further Writing: www.micheleestieb.com

This summary covers the full episode content, omitting advertisements and introductory material for clarity and focus on the discussion.