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The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Salena Zito on the Untold Story of Butler, PA
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- [00:00]
Tudor Dixon
This is an I Heart podcast. Welcome to the Tudor Dixon Podcast. Today we are going to take a little bit of a tour back in time to Butler, Pennsylvania, because I have Selena Zito with me. She is a veteran political reporter with more than 20 years of experience, based in the swing state of Pennsylvania and, I believe western Pennsylvania, which is where I was born, where my parents grew up. So as I was reading this book.
- [00:30]
Selena Zito
I didn't know that. Yeah.
- [00:32]
Tudor Dixon
And as I'm reading this, my dad's from Pittsburgh, and I'm reading this book, and I'm like, man, this. It was so powerful because just the way you talked about seeing someone in Pittsburgh being so small, and all of the conversations throughout this book about Pennsylvania were very meaningful to me, but I think so meaningful to the entire country.
- [00:52]
Selena Zito
So she.
- [00:53]
Tudor Dixon
She's written a book. It's called Butler. I'm going to hold it up here so you can see. And I said to you before we got on, it's so much more than Butler. So thank you for writing this.
- [01:03]
Selena Zito
Thank you. It is so much more than Butler. Obviously, that's a very pivotal moment. Right. I think all of us have seen to some degree or another what happened, either through television or social media or you knew someone or you were there. However, the story of Butler is the story of the heartland of this country. And whether you live in Pennsylvania or. Or Michigan or Ohio or Wisconsin, North Carolina, anywhere that. That. That is often sort of not thought of as part of elite culture. Right.
- [01:40]
Tudor Dixon
Right.
- [01:41]
Selena Zito
You can see yourself and you can feel. And you. You will. You read that book and you're like, I know these people. I see these people every day. That's my family, that's me. That's my neighbors. And that is, I think, what is part of what's most compelling about the book. Not just that day and what led up to that day, but it also explains why President Trump picks places like Butler to go to, why he picks smaller places in Michigan or Wisconsin or Ashtabula, Ohio. Wherever he shows up, he has this intuitive understanding of seeing people that are rarely seen and being able to showcase those people throughout the country by showing up in their towns.
- [02:35]
Tudor Dixon
Well, as I'm reading this, you know, you start with the day of stress and getting ready, and it's so relatable. As I'm reading this, I'm like, everybody who has ever had anything for business to get to understands this. And if you've been to a Trump rally, you really understand this, because there's that moment where you're like, we have this Much time to get there. We've got to get through the line. We've got to get through security. We. And you had the most important day. You're interviewing the president. Your daughter is going with you. She's going to take pictures. And you. You have all this anticipation of what it's going to be. It's hot. You're preparing for that. And I think reading it, you're in a different position because we already know what's about to happen. But you're taking us through the before, even the before with the president, because you talk about getting there and they're rushing you in, and you think you. The plans change at the last minute. You think you're interviewing him after the rally. They rush you in. You're like, oh, my goodness, are we going to interview him now? But you have this rare few minutes to just talk to him. And that, to me is the behind the scenes that so many people will never know if you don't read this book, is that you get to walk in there and see him just moments before he is shot. And he talks to you, and he's so welcoming, he's so warm, and he's so excited for the people. And he talks about how. What you think. He's also very inquisitive about how you feel about things. Throughout the whole book, every time you talk to him, you see this side of the President that some of us know that most people don't believe is real. And you capture it so beautifully in this book, not only that day, but when he returns to Butler. And I think that when you talk about the return to Butler, that part of the book, to me, was even more powerful because he's so concerned with Corey's family, the firefighter who died. And you talk about how there's a true weight on him, that someone was lost. And I knew that was how he felt. But to see how you captured it in words was incredible.
- [04:45]
Selena Zito
Yeah, We've had several very powerful conversations about Butler, about what happened that day, about faith, you know, that you've read the book, and his. His real sort of awakening to. To the.
- [05:01]
Tudor Dixon
God's hand was on me. That was powerful.
- [05:04]
Selena Zito
Yeah. The hand of God. When he said that, you know, he said that to me the day after the shooting. He. This is in the book. I'll give people a little. A little window into it. But he calls me early the next morning and. And before I even say hello, he says, this is Donald Trump. Like, I don't know. It's Donald Trump. Right. And. And the first thing he asks is, how are you, Selena? How is your daughter and your son in law? Because my daughter is a photojournalist, she is often with me in the field covering just everyday events, let alone a big interview like this. And we dragged my son in law along with us for a complete vanity reason.
- [05:57]
Tudor Dixon
Right.
- [05:58]
Selena Zito
It was going to be 101 degrees that day. It was. And we thought, well, we'll make him carry all the equipment so we look nice and, you know, crisp and clean. That did not happen. Right. I mean, he carried everything, but we did not look crisp and cream. We were sweaty. And you know, I have Italian hair. It was, there's this famous scene in the Friends show where, where Monica says it's the humidity because her hair got really big. And I always feel like I have to say I have to make an excuse for my hair. Right. But, you know, so, so he called and he said, are you okay? And, and I did something that I, I, I rarely do, no, I've never done with the President. I swore. But I did say, are you leaving? Kidding me? Sir, you were the one that was shot, not me. But that empathy and compassion and concern was the first thing out of his mouth. And people will find out that moment will come to life in a much bigger, more profound way later in those conversations that day. He called me seven times that day. When he talks about, people think that President Trump said, fight, fight, fight for a vanity reason. Right. Like for a photo op. There is a very deep and profound reason why he says that. And I can't wait to people read about that, because it was, it even took my breath away that, that in that moment, you know, you don't know how you're going to act in a moment of crisis, in a moment of being shot at.
- [07:39]
Tudor Dixon
Right, right, exactly. That's what I've always said. You can't plan for that.
- [07:43]
Selena Zito
No. We don't sit down and hoe at home and go, well, if I'm shot, this is what I'm going to do. Right. But, but you know, the way the kids thought process and why he did that I think is going to blow people's minds. It's really powerful.
- [07:59]
Tudor Dixon
And even, even getting to see it from your perspective is incredibly powerful because you are right. So many of us, I mean, I think probably the entire world has watched that moment on tv. You hear the shots, you see him grab his ear, you see him stand back up. So many people have seen what happened on tv. But you were right there. It's almost like, I mean, That's a God thing too. You were placed there because you're the storyteller and you tell the story so beautifully. And I mean, just from this, from not only what you see as you go down, you're being held down on the ground too. That I also found fascinating. You were immediately protected. People were talking about, you know, it was total chaos. But you have a Secret Service agent who has his hand on you. He's protecting you in that moment. It's his, his instinct is to make sure the people around him are safe. But just the sounds that you hear, the. I mean, the way you describe the cheers and the. Then the blood curdling scream and all of the things that happen, it was. As I'm reading the book, it takes you into that moment so perfectly, I have to tell you, and I'm tearing up. You know, I'm reading this and I'm like, gosh, you were there. You saw. You could see that you had a bird's eye view of the President.
- [09:16]
Selena Zito
Yeah, I was only a few feet away. And actually the person who. So I. When the first four shots went off, I'm a gun owner, I knew exactly what it was. I didn't get down. I don't know what that is in me that happened, but I just like, I have a job to do and I'm gonna do it. And the second four shots go off and, and four. Yeah, it felt like four. And I could still hear them in my head. The guy who took me down, he wasn't a Secret Service agent. He was the campaign's press lead. This young man in his late twenties just was so brave and so protective. Just took me down on the ground and laid on top of me until he knew everything was all clear. And just his comportment, his composure, his professionalism, but also his compassion in that moment. That young man, to me is someone that is also a gift from God. He is an angel because he, he really responded. You know, some people step up in a moment. He didn't have to do that. I was a reporter. He's a press aide. You know, you want to protect yourself, right? There was no reason for him to make the decisions that he did. And yet he did.
- [10:45]
Tudor Dixon
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tudor Dixon podcast. And as I'm. I'm reading this, I'm like, all of these people, they came together. There was nobody who ran. That was the other fascinating thing. It wasn't total chaos. That and, and that young man, he could have bolted all of these people could have just been running, scattered. But even, and that was a conversation that you had with the president too. Even he was like, you know, the people, they didn't freak out, they didn't run.
- [11:19]
Selena Zito
Yeah. You know, it has part, part and part, a large part has to do with just the mindset of the people that attend a Trump rally. You know, there have been all sorts of horrible stories written about what journalists and I'm, I'm a journalist, but what journalists think Trump supporters are. Right. All sorts of derogatory comments thrown their way. Violent, racist, whatever, you know, whatever ist word they want to use. However, that has never been. I've been to dozens and dozens of them covering them as a reporter. And that has never been my experience. My experience has always been it's like a Jimmy Buffett concert. Right. Except the people trade in parrot hats and Hawaiian shirts for patriotic gear. People believe they are part of something bigger than self there with people there to celebrate. And so, you know, you take that mindset and you place it in a very horrific scenario. And the response, while it was surprising in the moment, as you're more reflective, you understand. Well, of course, that's how they behave. Well, of course people were taking care of each other. Of course, no one can. Much of that had to do with how the President handled when he was shot and getting up and showing strength.
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Tudor Dixon
Right.
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Selena Zito
But a lot of it just had to do with these were people that are part of something bigger than self. And so when people left the farm show complex, which is like a huge farm field, basically, they just left. Very orderly, they were very quiet. I was held in the back for over an hour before they let me and several other photojournalists and my daughter, my son in law out. I think they thought we were injured. I mean, most people who saw that sort of iconic photo because it was on the front pages of a lot of papers the day after with, with Michelle Picard, the campaign a on top of me, all you see are my legs and my boots, my boots. Thank God I wore a skirt that day. I'm just saying, thank goodness I had the wherewithal because my legs are up in the air. But people recognized me because I always wear cowboy boots everywhere with skirt, dress, gown. At my daughter's wedding, I always have cowboy boots on. So there were a lot of people that thought I had died, you know, including members of my own family.
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Tudor Dixon
Oh, wow.
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Selena Zito
Because of that photo. But, but, but I'm getting ahead of myself, as when we came out, there was nothing left. In the farm field, right? Everybody had exited. Everyone had exited very quietly. And there's that sort of beautiful crane with the American flag is still flowing. It was very powerful to see that. There were water bottles all over the place. The garbage cans had become overflow, and, you know, people just dropped them to get out there. And there was a wheelchair in the middle of the farm field, but yet there was no panic. And we get over the hill to where they had the parking area, and nobody had left because they didn't let anybody leave. I saw the most miraculous thing. People were out of their cars, they were talking, they were hugging, they were sharing food, they were sharing water. And it was, you know, and I talked to other journalists to cover that that day, and they said they. They never saw anything like it. You know, there was just this calmness that was really something to be admired in that moment.
- [15:32]
Tudor Dixon
Even the. When you talk about going back and sitting with the. In that hour that you're sitting with the other journalists back there, just the emotion that you go through and that you talk about, that's in that room in the moment, and it's so real and it's so raw, and it really. I love the way it takes us into this glimpse that none of us would have seen. But then it. That's not it. I. I want people to know that the book is. Is so much. There's so much more depth than that, because you. You take us through the campaign, then you kind of circle back to Butler and you take us through all of the other things. You take us through Puerto Rico and. And you talked about the. The reporters that want to attack the president on a regular basis and say he's racist, and that this was the moment that they thought, okay, we've got him now. We're going to raise Kamala up, and. And this is it for him. But the whole time you knew you. There's like this understanding inside of you. And I think it was what you said at the beginning, that you knew the people. You knew the dedication of the people who wanted to see the country preserved, and they believed that Donald Trump is the person to do that. And I think he's proven that he is restoring the country. I mean, we don't have border crossings anymore. We don't have all of this chaos in the world. Donald Trump is truly a man of the people. But you also take us through something that I think is so important because of what we're seeing in New York right now. And. And I want to kind of dive deep into this because we see Mamdani and he is this man of a million faces. I don't know if any, if you've ever watched Game of Thrones, there's this.
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Selena Zito
That'S a very good way to put it.
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Tudor Dixon
Yeah, there's this, there's this scene in Game of Thrones that I don't know if you've ever watched it, but it's like the faceless man and they can become anyone. And that's, that is like, this is literally a, an evil character in a television show that can become anyone. And that's who I see Mamdani. However, I think that the play is off of who Donald Trump truly is. But he's not trying to play. And that's what you capture so well is he goes into McDonald's and you, you talk about how there's a joy and people go, man, there's a joy. People enjoy seeing someone say, I want to be with you guys. It's not that he's impersonating someone. He wants to be with the people. You capture that so well. And I think that's what the Democrat party is trying to, to steal. But they're using actors.
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Selena Zito
Yeah. You know, President Trump, I remember the first time I interviewed him and, and thinking, okay, this is the public perception of him. He's this three time married playboy, dating Howard Stern regular who, you know, who has constructed, you know, lives in a golden high rise in a tower, Trump Tower in New York. Right. That's the construct that, that, that people are, are handed, right. He's, he's not going to have a connection to the working class. He, that it's all a mirage. So I sit down with him in Pittsburgh in September of 2016 and we're at a shale conference. This is Marcella Shale. It's just starting to, it's sort of in its sixth year. It's really starting to boom. The shale hadn't been discovered in Pennsylvania until I think 2009, 2010. Right. So this industry is just taking off. And at this convention are all of these what I call suits, right? These wealthy, they're not bad people. They're just, you know, sort of wealthy and successful and, you know, and they want a piece of him, right? They want to talk to him. And then there's the guys and girls that work in the oil fields, right? They're there too. And then there are the people that are working the event. Right? They're the ones behind the curtain, the janitors, the people, the caterers, the electricians, the plumbers. Right. They're all moving around, they're all moving parts behind the scenes. They're what make the convention happen, right? They are what makes everything look beautiful on the other side of the car. So President Trump and I sit down and we do the interview. It's in that interview that I say to him, you know, sir, it's been my experience that voters take you seriously, but they don't take everything you say literally, whereas my profession takes you literally, and they don't take you all that seriously. And he thought about things, oh, that's really interesting way to look at it. And so after the interview, he says, come on, let's go take a walk. And I'm like, okay. Mind you, this is the first time I've ever met him. So we leave what was a curtained off area called the green room, and we start walking through the back of the convention hall. That's where all the regular people are, right? The janitors, the plumbers, the caterers, the people pushing around carts of water. And he just starts going up and talking to them. No cameras are there, right? It's, you know, all on background, it's not on the record. And so he's not getting anything from this, right? This is not a performance. And he starts talking back and forth with them about their lives. What do you do? Why do you do it? How many you know, are you married? Did you go to college? How long has your family lived in your neighborhood? That kind of thing, right? The normal kinds of things you have, have when you have a conversation with someone that you just met. And it was in that moment that I understood him, that what his two superpowers are, that is his curiosity about people's lives. That's a sense of humanity that most politicians do not possess. They wish they did, they tried to fake, but they don't possess. If you've ever had a conversation with a politician, seven times out of ten, if you're lucky, they don't look past you while you're talking, right? They look at you. Trump, that's one of Trump's superpowers. He never takes his eyes off of you when he's talking to you. He doesn't look away, he doesn't look past you. He looks at. He looks. He's in the moment with you. And the other superpower is this is a guy from the outer borough. He's not from Manhattan, right? And so there's this sort of layers of elitism in New York where if you're from the outskirts, the outer borough, right, you're not part of the club. You're new money, you're not old money. And he spent a lot of his life coming up in the business of building and real estate, working with the men and women that make stuff. So his connective tissue is. And this is the thing that my profession really missed is his connective tissue is for the everyman, is with the everyman, and it's genuine. His connective tissue isn't with the people that. That were from Manhattan, that were from Park Avenue. Yeah, he got there. But just like the rest of the people who want to earn their way up in life, you know, he never forgot the people that made that made his success possible.
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Tudor Dixon
I think what you're saying right now is so critical because there is a huge difference between a Donald Trump and a J.D. pritzker. J.D. pritzker is a. He's a born billionaire. He has had a silver spoon in his mouth. He has no connection. And I've seen this across many different areas of my life. When you meet somebody who built their own wealth, as opposed to somebody who has always grown up with wealth, there is a huge difference in the way they connect to humanity. I mean, they just have had a different life. They've had different experiences. They've had to fight for what they have. And I think that that instant reaction of fight, fight, fight, keep going, was really what he was saying, don't let this stop. I think that's because inside of him, he's always been building, always been building.
- [24:06]
Selena Zito
I have. I've. I've been around. I've been in the field a long time. I approach journalism and covering politics and culture, and, you know, those two overlap in so many ways in a very different way. But it's a way that used to be the standard. So I don't fly, not because I'm afraid to. I fall asleep as soon as I get on a plane. So, you know, you can throw the fear thing out, but I don't fly because I would miss so much of what happens between point A and point B. I also don't take interstates. I only take back roads. Because if you take an interstate, you may as well fly because, you know, the only place you stop is, like, at an interchange. And it's the same gas station and the same food place and, you know, strip mall, and then you're back on. And you really don't under the. Understand the depths of what's happening in the country. What places are doing good, what places are not doing good, why, how? You know, and you don't learn about the resiliency of the American people if you're on an airplane. So, you know, I take the reader back a little bit so that they understand why President Trump picks showing up in places like Butler. Right. If anybody's old enough to remember the song Allentown, that was a Billy Joel song, and it's very sort of mournful and nostalgic about the decay of his hometown because of loss of manufacturing and then the trickle effect it had on churches and neighborhoods. Right. And there were people when that song came out all across the country that sang along with it. They'd never even been to Allentown. But it's because Allentown represented so many places across the country. It became a cultural touchstone. And that's what places like East Palestine are. That's what places like Butler are. There have only been two presidents that have ever campaigned for election for president in the entirety of our country in Butler, and that was JFK and Donald Trump.
- [26:36]
Tudor Dixon
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tudor Dixon Podcast. The fact that you bring up that there were two attempted assassinations on presidents. There was fascinating.
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Selena Zito
Yeah. So President Trump is not the only president who've been shot at right. By their ear in Butler. George Washington won this pleasantly. Well. And I won't give too much away, but I think what is important about understanding two presidents, two presidents of consequence. Right. Like the country would look incredibly different had they not been president.
- [27:25]
Tudor Dixon
That journey you take us on, honestly, that is worth going into this book and reading it, because it just the way you take us through that journey and then the reaction of President Trump when you talk to him, it brings it all together in such a powerful way. I really appreciated that.
- [27:45]
Selena Zito
Thank you so much. I hope that people understand that this book isn't just about Butler, although that is a pivotal and powerful moment. But it's also a story and a journey through America. And I'm up in Michigan in the story, too, as well as in Wisconsin. I usually cover Appalachian, the Great Lakes, Midwest. It's about place and how place dominates how we vote. And it is an emotion and a gravital pull to our rootedness that most political strategists don't even know how to understand yet. President Trump was very, very good in understanding the nuance and the fabric of why place impacts people's votes. It's why people did not understand why the working class voting for President Trump wasn't just going to be white. It was also Hispanic and black and Asian in a massive way. Because the Democrats kept putting people in silos and trying to disconnect them from each other.
- [29:06]
Tudor Dixon
Right? That's so true.
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Selena Zito
That's not what was happening in this country. You know, working class voters, black, white, Hispanic, Asian, they voted shoulder to shoulder with their community because of place, because of how tied they are to each other, to community and to family. And the Democrats come completely did not understand that. And in a breathtaking way. And so I take the voters in, I mean, I take the readers inside those moments and inside those families lives so they have a better understanding of what is happening in our country.
- [29:47]
Tudor Dixon
So much so. So I will tell people. It comes up out on July 8th. It is called Butler the Untold Story of the Near Assassination of Donald Trump and the Fight for America's Heartland. You read this book, it's going to be more than Butler. Like I said before, you're going to intimately meet characters that you hear about every day. Susie Wiles, an amazing woman, you're going to meet her in this book. Chris Lacivita, even Elon Musk, all of these characters come through. And you can tell throughout this book that the president has this incredible belief in you, Selena, this incredible trust in you. And that's why you. This is so much more than a book. It's history. It is going to be impactful for generations to come. So I want to thank you today. Is there anything you want to tell people about where they can get it?
- [30:35]
Selena Zito
Oh, you can just get it on Amazon or at your local bookstore. I hope people enjoy it. If you do read it and you like it, please, you know, comment on Twitter. It's itocelina. I'd love to hear from you. I'd love to hear what your thoughts were about it.
- [30:55]
Tudor Dixon
I mean, it's great. And at the very least, you have an amazing picture that you get to put on your coffee table. She did. I love it. That's what we were talking about this morning. We're like, I mean, this is a great book to have out.
- [31:07]
Selena Zito
Yeah. She took that as so as we were. And readers will find out we're in the, we're in the back with him right before he goes out and he has this running joke and you'll read it in the book that he always says, hey, Selena, you want to go out on the stage with me? I'm like, no.
- [31:28]
Tudor Dixon
But that's what I mean, there's this trust between the two of you. There's a genuine he cares. And that's what. It's not just you. That's how he feels about people. You capture it so well, and I just so appreciate it. It's been such a great conversation. Selena Zito, please check her out. Check out this book. It's amazing.
- [31:47]
Selena Zito
Thank you.
- [31:48]
Tudor Dixon
And thank you all for joining us on the Tudor Dixon Podcast. For more, you can go to tutordixonpodcast. Com, iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Also, you can watch us on Rumble and YouTube @Tutor Dixon. But make sure you join us next time and have a blessed day. This is an iHeart podcast.