The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Teachers Unions, NEA Influence & the Future of Public Education

Summary

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The Tudor Dixon Podcast:

Teachers Unions, NEA Influence & the Future of Public Education
Guest: Erica Sanzi (Defending Education, former teacher and NEA member)
Date: December 8, 2025
Host: Tudor Dixon

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Tudor Dixon sits down with Erica Sanzi—a former teacher, former NEA (National Education Association) union member, and current political activist with Defending Education. They explore growing concerns about teachers' unions, especially the NEA, and their shift toward highly politicized, progressive activism within public education. The conversation highlights the tensions between union leadership, classroom realities, the politicization of teaching, and declining student outcomes in the US public education system.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Political Evolution of Teachers' Unions

• Erica Sanzi’s NEA Experience:
  Erica recounts how, even in the late 1990s and early 2000s, the union leaned Democratic but stayed within the boundaries of practical educational priorities. Over the years, she describes a shift:
  • “They have morphed over the past couple decades into what I publicly have called an insane asylum. They are run by radicals. They are totally ideological…” (Erica Sanzi, 04:12)
• Union Endorsements and Activism:
  Teachers receive union materials instructing who to vote for using member dues, which is a foreign concept to those outside such organizations.
• Dixon’s Shock at Union Practices:
  Dixon, surprised by the overt political pressure on teachers, contrasts this with other industries where employer political guidance is absent.

2. Unions’ Focus vs. Student Outcomes

• Declining Scores:
  Erica provides concerning statistics:
  • Only 31% of 4th graders are proficient in reading.
  • Only 22% of 12th graders are proficient in math.
  • 32% of seniors fall "below basic" in reading, meaning they're not even close to proficiency. (Erica Sanzi, 06:07)
  • “It’s like a five-alarm fire… The trajectory for student outcomes has been going downward for a long time—decades.” (Erica Sanzi, 07:10)
• Unions’ Shifted Priorities:
  Instead of focusing on these academic issues, the conversation and union trainings often center on “LGBTQ justice” and “transgender advocacy.”
  • “You will never hear about improving instruction. You will never hear about student outcomes… certainly never hear about, like, parents as partners.” (Erica Sanzi, 04:12)

3. Radical Trainings & Messaging in Schools

• Union Trainings on Language and Ideology:
  Erica references NEA conference materials which advise teachers to use language like “genders” (plural) to reflect “expansive attitudes.”
  • “Embrace, replace… say this: our genders or genders instead of gender. And it says because pluralizing genders enables a greater agreement with our worldview…” (Tudor Dixon, 11:06)
  • The trainings instruct members to weave together race, class, and gender, comparing “gender justice” to the civil rights movement to build a stronger narrative.
  • Vilifying Opposition:
    • “They use the word villains in their training to describe anybody who opposes… They specifically name Republicans as the villains… Opposition can only be explained by racism and transphobia and racist dog whistles… and that they’re fascists.” (Erica Sanzi, 11:16)

4. Preference Falsification and Cultish Dynamics

• Pressure to Conform:
  Erica describes how “preference falsification” is highest around gender issues:
  • “Behind the scenes you say what you really think, but then outwardly you pretend that you agree with things that you don’t. It's the highest for this issue around gender.” (Erica Sanzi, 09:47)
  • Many teachers may disagree with radical stances but feel social or professional pressure to comply.

5. Race, Discipline, and Shifting Narratives

• Discipline and the ‘Architecture’ of Narrative:
  Dixon and Sanzi discuss how isolated instances (e.g., dress codes, hairstyle rules) are amplified into proof of widespread racism or sexism, shifting attention away from core academic failures.
  • “What they do is they find one example and then they make it as if this is a common thing happening everywhere... It’s a new shiny object that shifts the focus from what matters, which is students are not learning well enough.” (Erica Sanzi, 16:46)
• Equity vs. Colorblindness:
  Sanzi distinguishes between respecting all students by holding uniform standards (the “colorblind” approach) versus constantly modifying rules to accommodate perceived or actual marginalized identities.

6. Indoctrination and Campaigning—Teachers as Activists

• Explicit Political Indoctrination:
  Union materials coach teachers to “exploit the lack of familiarity with transgender people” to sway student opinions, linking certain politicians to “withholding healthcare” or “excluding trans kids from sports”—a highly charged, one-sided approach presented as education.
  • “You’re injecting full indoctrination politics into not only the teacher, but the teacher is meant to then bring that to the school and tell the students this politician is bad…” (Tudor Dixon, 21:52)
• Campaign Labs & Union Power:
  Teachers, armed with union talking points, are mobilized to organize campaigns, door-knock, and lobby for ballot initiatives and candidates—activities that are taxpayer-funded via public education budgets.

7. Not All Teachers Are Radicals—Understanding the Nuance

• Small Activist Core, Large Impact:
  Sanzi emphasizes that not all teachers attend these conferences or endorse radicalism, but that the leadership level is dominated by activists, and most teachers are unaware of the union’s actions.
  • “For some reason, any critique of a teacher or teachers… lands on the ears of teachers that you’re talking about all of them… But the leadership of the union is absolutely run by radical ideologues.” (Erica Sanzi, 27:15)
• Younger Teachers and Teacher Prep:
  Teacher education programs now emphasize activism—“teaching is a political act”—driving this generational divide as new teachers believe activism and ‘social justice’ are central to the job. Older teachers are bewildered by this redefinition.

8. Pronouns, Compliance, and Internal Tensions

• Enforced Language and the Risk of Non-Conformity:
  • “Add your pronouns to badges, emails, documents and system. Use pronoun pins if your school ID can’t be changed… Misgendering should prompt corrective action and/or consequences.” (Erica Sanzi, 35:01) Teachers feel pressured to adopt these practices or risk being labeled as harassers, jeopardizing their careers.
• Confusion and Pushback:
  There is widespread confusion and discomfort, but most dissenters keep quiet for self-preservation.

9. Teaching Climate & Student Discipline

• Teacher Burnout and Classroom Chaos:
  Teachers are overwhelmed, not only by these new political pressures but also by increased behavior problems post-pandemic and a decline in discipline due to administrative mandates.
  • “Teachers are 100% at the end of the rope in terms of behavior and discipline… The pandemic really blew that up.” (Erica Sanzi, 39:15)
  • Public schools’ inability to discipline or expel disruptive students due to federal regulations erodes learning environments for all children.

10. The Future of Public Education & Parental Dilemmas

• Public vs. Private Schooling:
  Dixon, a supporter of public schools, expresses sorrow that parent confidence is eroding, and many are forced into difficult choices. She notes private school children are thriving while public schools struggle.
• Return to Academic Standards:
  Both note that a reckoning is coming for public education, including the reintroduction of SAT requirements and the spotlight on lagging performance post-pandemic.

11. The Search for Nuanced Solutions

• Trade-Offs and Realities:
  Both Dixon and Sanzi urge listeners to recognize the complexity and trade-offs in any education decision or policy:
  • “Can’t we just have a conversation where we’re all saying we want what’s best for students and families without immediately, you know, like… ‘If you loved your kids, you would take them out of public school.’” (Erica Sanzi, 44:17)
• Teachers and Parents as Allies:
  The episode closes with a reminder that collaboration, not vilification or all-or-nothing thinking, offers the only path forward for students, teachers, and families alike.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the radicalization of unions:
  “They have morphed over the past couple decades into what I publicly have called an insane asylum. They are run by radicals. They are totally ideological.”
  — Erica Sanzi, 04:12

• On declining student outcomes:
  “It’s like a five-alarm fire… The trajectory for student outcomes has been going downward for a long time—decades.”
  — Erica Sanzi, 07:10

• On training materials labeling opponents:
  “They use the word villains… They specifically name Republicans… Opposition can only be explained by racism and transphobia and racist dog whistles and that they’re fascists.”
  — Erica Sanzi, 11:16

• On pressure to conform:
  “Preference falsification… is the highest for this issue around gender.”
  — Erica Sanzi, 09:47

• On misrepresenting teacher sentiment:
  “During the COVID… the head of the local union got up and said that the majority of the teachers didn’t want to go back… That wasn’t even true.”
  — Erica Sanzi, 27:15

• On teachers’ new roles:
  “We were taught in school that teaching is a political act. We were taught in school that our responsibility is to be activists.”
  — Erica Sanzi, 29:42

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 03:01 — Erica’s introduction and early NEA experiences
• 06:07 — Reading and math proficiency statistics
• 09:01 — The cult-like grip of progressive ideology
• 11:06 — Radical language in NEA trainings (“genders” instead of “gender”)
• 14:02 — Discipline, race narratives, and the ‘architecture’ of activism
• 21:52 — How political indoctrination enters curricula
• 27:15 — Not all teachers are radicals: leadership vs. rank and file
• 29:42 — New teacher education: activism as core mission
• 35:01 — Pronouns, misgendering, compliance, and career risk
• 39:15 — Discipline breakdown and classroom challenges
• 43:06 — Need for nuance, collaboration, and robust public schools
• 45:36 — Parental pressure, idealization, and anxiety

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Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is frank, at times incredulous, and underscores the complexity and urgency of public education challenges. Both women emphasize the necessity of separating union leadership from individual teachers and caution against simplistic answers or scapegoating, even as they call out the dangers of politicized education and lost focus on student achievement.

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For listeners seeking to understand the intersection of unions, activism, and classroom realities—this episode offers robust firsthand insight, sobering statistics, and a plea for nuanced solutions.

Transcript

[Tudor Dixon]

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[Tudor Dixon]

This is the Tutor Dixon Podcast. And so often on this podcast we start to get into some of the things that are happening to our kids that we don't even know that are happening to our kids and that oftentimes has to do with public school. And now we're finding out a lot about what goes on with the unions. So we brought a former teacher and a former union member. Nea Union member National Education Association on her name is Erica Sanzi. She's here to talk to us. She now is more of a political activist. She's with Defending Education. We talked about this this organization. A few weeks ago, we had Nikki Neely on. We talked about this, but I saw this article that Erica put out about what is going on with the teaching behind the scenes. The nea, the, the teachers union actually has these conferences and they invite a bunch of teachers and they teach some pretty radical stuff. So, Erica, thank you so much for being on today and telling us what exactly is going on behind the scenes.

[Erica Sanzi]

Thank you so much for having me. Well, what's going on behind the scenes is that the NEA and teachers unions more generally have always tilted to the left and they've always overwhelmingly supported Democrats. And even when I was in the NEA in the late 90s and early 2000s, I can remember them sending glossy mailers to our homes telling us, you know, who we should vote for. So, for example, in the 2004 primary, they wanted us to vote for Howard Dean. But I never.

[Tudor Dixon]

I just want to stop you because I think it's so funny. We talked about this before we got on and I was like, that's shocking. And you said, that's not even bad. And it's shocking to me because I think if you haven't been in a public union like this when I, I've worked in many different jobs. I've worked in at big PR firms, I've worked in a foundry, I've worked at a steel mill. Never in my career did anybody say to me, this is who we suggest you vote for. But to you it was so normal.

[Erica Sanzi]

Oh, you mean they didn't spend your membership dues that you were forced to pay to send you overpriced glossy mailers telling you who to vote for?

[Tudor Dixon]

Right. Shocking.

[Erica Sanzi]

At the time. I mean, again, the difference is at the time, they felt like a Democrat leaning organization, but they felt, to me, at least it seemed like they were tethered to reality. They have morphed over the past couple decades into what I publicly have called an insane asylum. They are run by radicals. They are totally ideological. Their focus, if you name, you know, all the hot button issues that progressives sort of fixate on, those are their priorities. So there will. You will never hear about improving instruction. You will never hear about student outcomes. You will never really hear about learning. So you will certainly never hear about, like, parents as partners.

[Tudor Dixon]

Let me pick on that for a second, because we have heard about terrible reading scores across the country. I mean, it's not just, you know, I talk about Michigan a lot. Michigan is really bad. But really, the United States is below most Western countries. Our reading scores are Terrible. Our math scores are terrible. And the fact that, that, that is shocking to me because that is something at work. Every place I've worked, it's like, we gotta get better, we gotta get better. The product that we are delivering has to be better. Ultimately, the product that teachers are delivering is an education. And yet this latest conversation at the, at the NEA has been about advancing LGBTQ justice and transgender advocacy. I mean, what.

[Erica Sanzi]

Yeah, like, to my point, that is their focus. So, and just for if listeners who aren't. Or viewers, I guess, right. If aren't familiar with the, the data on student outcomes, I pulled a couple numbers before we came on, just so I could let people know. So 31% of 4th graders are currently considered proficient at reading.

[Tudor Dixon]

So sad.

[Erica Sanzi]

22% of 12th graders are considered proficient in math. So we're talking very, very low numbers. But the other piece that's really important here is that on these reading. I'm sorry, on these test results, you have proficient. You have proficient with distinction, which is like the high achievers. That's a small percentage. Then you have the proficient, which means that they're meeting the benchmark. Then you have partially proficient, which means like they're, they're not in dire straits, but they're not meeting the benchmark. And then you have something called below basic. A very alarming part of the data is that a very large swath of students are falling into that below basic category, which means they're not even approaching proficiency. So, for example, in reading in 12th grade, 32% of seniors in high school fall into that below basic category, which means they're not even approaching the benchmark. And that is extremely alarming to have such a big number in that bottom bucket. And again, that is something. It's like a five alarm fire. The trajectory for student outcomes has been going downward for a long time, decades. And instead we see the biggest teachers union in the country that gives over 99% of its money now to Democratic candidates focused on.

On, you know, providing sample templates for teachers who want to change their gender, you know, helping them share that with the rest of the school community.

[Tudor Dixon]

It is stunning to me. And when you talk about those math scores, I just want to point out when I was traveling around to businesses in this state that are usually getting skilled tradesmen, usually getting kids out of high school, they said they had to actually take reading a ruler off of their test to get to just hire their hiring exam because students couldn't do that. High school students couldn't do that. I mean, this, you set a five alarm, five alarm fire. You are right. This is a five alarm fire. And yet that's not how the union sees it. And if we talk about this, we get pushback from the progressive left. You also said something else that I thought was interesting. You were like, you know, it used to be that they were just like, I just thought this was like a normal group and they were just Democrats. That's how we thought Democrats were. They were just Democrats. But now they've gone to this radical extreme and this stuff, this transgender advocacy, LGBTQ justice, that was why they lost the last election. Why are they doing this? Do they just figure they can get the youth on board? We're all screwed.

[Erica Sanzi]

I mean, I am having a very hard time wrapping my head around this as well. I mean, it is a cult like ideology. So I actually do think that for some people, they are just true believers, right? This is. They've been marinating in this belief system and worldview for a really long time. Also, when you are in progressive circles, you cannot step out of line or you will be sort of shunned and expelled from your group. So if that's your world, right, then it's like, well, I may know that it's ridiculous that a male just won the women's powerlifting competition, but I can't say that because if I do, like, my whole, like, social circle will implode.

[Tudor Dixon]

How welcoming and exclus and inclusive.

[Erica Sanzi]

So I sort of think that you have, like, the true believers, and then you have the people that know it's nuts, but go along with it because they don't want their whole, again, like, their kind of, like, world to implode. And just a quick little thing that I happen to know is that preference falsification, this idea that, like, behind the scenes you say what you really think, but then, like, outwardly you pretend that you agree with things that you don't. It's the highest for this issue around gender. That's where we see people the most unwilling to just, like, again, say the truth or just say, like, say, I'm not gonna play make believe, right? Like, I'm not. I'm not engaging in this game of make believe and pretending that things aren't what they are.

[Tudor Dixon]

I noticed in one of these, in one of these scenarios, it's like one of these teachings that they have at this conference. I think this is. You guys pulled something out of the teach, and I know you're looking in greater depth at this, but it says, embrace, replace, say this, our genders or genders instead of gender. And it says because pluralizing genders enables a greater agreement with our worldview and helps activate more expansive attitudes toward our genders and transgender people.

[Erica Sanzi]

Yep.

[Tudor Dixon]

This is what they're saying to use in class. Right.

[Erica Sanzi]

This is the language that they want their members to use.

Again, in pursuit of a political goal. So the idea is that they are working on their messaging strategy, and they want their messaging strategy to incorporate race, class, and gender at all times, because these psychos think that it's a useful and acceptable tactic to compare gender justice to the civil rights movement. And so they want to link race and class to this gender thing, thinking that it'll be harder to go against them if they make it seem, you know, more like a civil rights argument. But the other thing that's kind of crazy in here, they use the word villains in their training to describe anybody who opposes, you know, this ideology or this messaging. They specifically name Republicans as the villains, although they. They seem to include all people in opposition. And they also say that their opposition can only be explained by racism and transphobia and racist dog whistles. Oh, I'm sorry. And that they're fascists. These are words. Like, every word I just used is in the documents.

[Tudor Dixon]

That's another. So there's another. This is. I've been told recently, if you don't have racism, then on the left, you. You don't have much. So you've got to keep racism alive. So you have to create racism. And. And I think that a lot of people from the Gen X generation have been like, what is happening? This is not how we grew up. This is not. People didn't talk this way. There was not a focus on racism. And I've even had. I come from the suburbs of Chicago. We had a very diverse high school. And even my high school friends, I've noticed, have commented on Facebook like this. My high school friends of color, they've said, this wasn't how it was. When we were in high school, we did not feel racism. We didn't feel like this. But now it's like one of these. This is a quote from the material. We see this in high schools. We see this. Wait, we see this in how high schools tell black kids how to keep their hair or send girls home from. From school for the. The clothes that they're wearing. Like, we keep talking about how we have to have these laws. You've got Michelle Obama out there making. Telling people that white people are telling black people how to wear their hair. Now they're Saying that you. If you send girls home from school for breaking dress code. I mean, I gotta tell you, we've had kids sent home from our school for wearing things that are inappropriate to school. There are rules on whether or not you can wear short skirts and mini and. And crop tops.

[Erica Sanzi]

So one of the issues is some of us believe that the. That the way that we sort of respect people is that we hold them all to the same standard.

Other people think that if you don't make special concessions or you don't change the rules for certain people because of some marginalized status that you believe that they hold, then you're not, you know, you're not engaging in equity is what they would call it. So you're right. Like having. I've worked in. I worked in very affluent school districts. I worked in high poverty schools. I worked in public charter and parochial. Right. I have seen many students written up for dress code, and I have seen many students either sent home or mom or dad had to bring something in. And that has always been.

Sort of. Not to use a very, you know, controversial word, but that was a colorblind thing. Absolutely.

[Tudor Dixon]

When I was.

[Erica Sanzi]

It was inappropriate. Now, if somebody wanted to make the argument, well, the style, you know, this style is more common with this group, and therefore they are getting written up for dress code more. I mean, people can have that conversation, but that doesn't change the fact that, like, you have the rule in place. And I can remember when there was a time. There may have been a time too. Like, I'm not positive about this, but there have been, I think, some rules regarding hair that might have been a bit discriminatory. But again, that's a very small problem that can be fixed versus, oh, we're not gonna talk about reading, math, literacy, civics. We're gonna obsess over this tiny little thing that might be an issue in some school because they didn't allow kids to have dreads.

[Tudor Dixon]

But see, that's the thing. It's not about that. It. The title of this is. Is actually Architecture of a Race Class Gender Narrative. So this is like we are creating. This is how we create the architecture. This is how we build the narrative that there is a race, class, gender issue here. And I can tell you, I can remember when I was in high school and junior high and we would have to watch Degrassi Junior High in school, and then. And I can remember an exact episode where the girl would leave and she would change her clothes in the car on the way to school, and then she got in trouble at school. And it was like the lesson there was, don't do that. This is not. There's nothing new. Students aren't doing anything new. We're always trying new.

[Erica Sanzi]

Like all the girls that get out of the cool with their car, well, they used to, maybe not so much anymore with their skirts like the right length. And then they get out of the car and they get out of sight and they roll them until they're like basically as long as their underwear.

[Tudor Dixon]

So every child does this.

[Erica Sanzi]

This happens a lot because you can usually find one example of a bad thing that happened. So what they do is they find one example and then they make it as if this is a common thing happening everywhere. And then they decide, we need to focus on this, talk about this, make this the narrative. Why? Because it's a new shiny object that shifts the focus from what matters, which is that students are not learning well enough. It means it's, you know, shifted from the fact that schools are hiding information from parents about their own children. It's like they know that if they shift to this new stupid thing, then the focus and because it is true, like there's the people, the media, for example, in many cases will immediately go to that dumb small thing and make it a giant issue and not talk about the fact that. That the vast majority of school districts in the United States have written policies to withhold information from parents about their own child's new gender and new gender accommodations at school.

[Tudor Dixon]

Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tudor Dixon podcast.

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[Tudor Dixon]

When you talk about them saying we're not going to dress code kids, this is a slippery slope into you are right, you can do anything. There are no rules and don't let anybody hold you back. Be your true self if that is wearing a tiny skirt or changing your gender. Because then it does go into and exploit the lack of familiarity with transgender people. And then in quotes it says and how certain politicians exploit lack of familiarity with transgender people, excluding trans kids from health care, school or sports. So now you really are this is to the teachers, this is what they're learning. Now you really are injecting full indoctrination politics into not only the teacher, but the teacher is meant to then bring that to the school and tell the students this politician is bad. A specific politician is bad because they are stopping your friends from getting health care, which we know other countries have banned, what they're calling healthcare because it is so, it is so mutilating to these children and then excluding them from sports. This is to protect women.

[Erica Sanzi]

Now it's again, notice how benign the language sounds. They're not talking about.

You know, potential sterility of kids. They're not talking about the irreversible damage that occurs when you pause and stop puberty and put children on cross sex hormones that five years later they are very likely to regret. And they're not talking about the fact that the only reason we have a women's division in the first place is because they can't compete obviously at an elite level against the men. I mean I had a school board member in my own town.

Say to me, and by the way, the worst people on this issue of sports are the ones who never played any sports and don't like sports and don't watch sports and don't have kids who play sports. Cause they literally don't think there's a difference. They really don't. They just like. So the school board, the elected school board might have been the chair actually said to me on the phone, I don't understand why we can't just have tryouts for the swim team and everybody just goes together, all the boys and the girls together and then just the best kids make the team. This is what he said. Like does he doesn't understand much about never compete against Michael Phelps? Does he not know this? But the reality is he doesn't know this. So my new, so my new proposed, like, you know, if I ever want to write a book for fun, one of my proposed rules is going to be like, you can't be on a school board if you haven't played sports.

I mean, I'm joking, but that, I'm joking but you can't have a school board full of people that, where nobody did.

[Tudor Dixon]

That's the problem. It's at the point where there is no voice of reason, no experience, no life experience brought to this. And so often, I mean we had a person on one of the local school boards here, not a parent, had no kids, not involved with the school at all. A young guy who I think ended up getting caught in Bezeline or something, but a young 20 something year old guy who for some reason joined the School board and was saying all these radical things. But this is kind of, of teaching this. They have a campaign lab. They're teaching teachers to be activists. And to me, I mean, right now in the, in, in our state, this is something that I think people don't realize is these are the types of groups that get these, these radical ballot initiatives into law. So they have this campaign lab. So all of a sudden in a swing state, you have all these teachers that are just ready to go out and knock doors and campaign for you while they have something on the ballot or they're trying to put something on the ballot that candidates can't get money from any corporations. But unions are exempt from this. So think about all the money that would go into Democrat candidates. And you have an entire system that is ready to go out and do the ground game, be the grassroots built into a system that is paid for by tax dollars. That's the real kicker.

[Erica Sanzi]

Well, and also, like, I don't, I mean, you know, most people in the country are independents, but it's, it's fair to say that we're about 50, we're a split country. Well, the teachers union, the largest teachers union for public school teachers in the country, is essentially saying that half the country, that the parents of the students that their members serve are villains, transphobes, fascists, and.

Engaging in racist dog whistles. So what is, I mean, that to me is almost a bigger problem. They are vilifying half, at least half of the country. And that means that they see the parents of the students of their members as the enemy.

[Tudor Dixon]

Who are the people that. It's not all teachers that go to these conferences. That's the thing. I think that is also challenging because as we talk about this, I don't want people listening to this to be like every teacher at a public school feels this way and they want to indoctrinate my kids. There is a small group that is this far left political activism group that is in our schools now. That's not to take away their power. They are powerful. I mean, the NEA and the AFT together contributed more than $43 million between 22 and 24 to left wing political act advocacy. So they are, they are trying to do this. It's not everybody though, who is going to these.

[Erica Sanzi]

So yeah, this has to be a nuanced thing because for some reason two teachers, and I say this as a former one, so I witnessed it a lot. Any critique of a teacher or teachers, it lands on the ears of teachers that you're talking about all of them. Yeah, it's like it's this one group for some reason just like you can't, you can't converse about them without it being, you know, that something, that something that you said is totally unfair because you're, you're smearing all of them.

There's a couple of things going on. One is the leadership of the union is absolutely run by radical ideologues. They are far leftists. They are obsessed with these causes. It is who they are. I don't think it used to be like this, but there is no question. Again, like for me, even from the late 90s and the early 2000s to now, I find this just the messaging coming out of them, the issues that they focus on, they are completely different and very extreme. I'm not like this isn't hyperbole. I don't normally use the word radical because I think it's overused. But in the case of the leadership of this organization it is the correct word. They are far left radical ideologues. The rank and file members who have really have no choice. It's like you just, you are, I mean now there are these ways that you can kind of out of the union but it's hard to do and most people don't do it. I shouldn't say it's hard to do. It's just you have to take an extra step. Most people don't do it. They don't know that their union is even doing this. They probably never think about their union. And the other thing that's very important to know is that oftentimes even the leader of a union misrepresents their members. So for example, during the COVID when my local schools were closed, the head of the local union got up and said that the majority of the teachers wanted, didn't want to go back to in person schooling. That was a lie. We had an overwhelming majority of students that want, I mean teachers. I'm sorry, teachers. What did I say? Yeah, teachers wanted to go back. She was saying my members don't feel safe, they don't want to go back. That wasn't even true. We knew that we had about 70% of teachers that wanted to go back. So number one, they lie. Number two, teachers that are more my age, I'm Gen X.

Are, they didn't marinate in this ideology in their teacher prep programs. So they are now saying to themselves what the hell is going on with these brand new teachers coming out of school that are saying we were taught in school that teaching is a political act. We were taught in school that our responsibility is to be activists.

[Tudor Dixon]

That's what we were taught in school. That's what we're just hearing.

[Erica Sanzi]

And we're like, what if you look. And we, we actually did at defending education. We did a report on this so people can look at the documents. It tells them your job is to be an advocate and an activist for social justice. And here's how we define that. So that means that if a person is a bit more conservative or apolitical and their idea, like for example, I would argue that social justice is literacy and teaching children to read, no matter their background, no matter their zip code, it's making sure that children can read. I would argue that is social justice. Right. But for the teachers coming out of these programs there, it's all equity, it's inclusion, it's queer theory based stuff. It's climate justice all the time. It's all the evils of whiteness and white privilege and all of these buzzwords. That's what they're hearing. So it's not just that they think they have to be political and be activists. They have very specific causes that they believe they have to push as classroom teachers. Which to a 45 year old, 50 year old teacher, 52, if you're my age.

It sounds insane. Yeah. And they're thinking that's not your role. What are you talking about? Like that's not the job. But to the 22 year old, they've been taught in their teacher prep programs that that is the job. And that is something that I still think the larger public does not realize.

Does that has happened and has changed.

[Tudor Dixon]

In teacher ed, does that make the union more powerful? Because there seems to be in this younger generation and these new teachers, but not just teachers that this generation coming out of college today, it feels like they have a sense of wanting to be a part of a bigger group. They love political activism. They love to be a part of something bigger than them. They're not always a part of a church. So it seems like they, they're looking for something that kind of feels that same way. Like I'm a part of this and I'm a leader in this. Are they the ones that are more prone to going to these conferences and is that the future?

[Erica Sanzi]

I actually don't know the answer to that question. I feel like a lot of times when I see like photos of like union people out with signs, they actually often see middle age. But that's true. There is, I'm not actually sure about That I will say it may sound controversial, but it's just a fact. As teaching has become increasingly female, I mean, the numbers are, I mean, the male teacher numbers have really just kind of dropped off a cliff, especially at the elementary level. You're also just young females. Skew left.

[Tudor Dixon]

Yeah.

[Erica Sanzi]

Yes. So you're gonna see more of that.

Whereas, like, like, I, I'm thinking right now of some, of some young guys. I know they've coached my kids in the past, so they're, you know, in their 20s. And their teachers and coaches, they're not down with any of this. I don't, if I asked them about it, I don't know if they would know about it. I certainly have heard them say, oh, my gosh, like, you know, all this pro, they, the gender pronoun stuff, they think it is super dumb, very annoying, ridiculous. But I think they kind of keep their heads down.

[Tudor Dixon]

I think so many people are keeping their heads down because this is your career. And I, and I, I get that from the standpoint of I don't want to rock the boat, I don't want to get kicked out, I don't want to get fired. I don't want to be ostracized. I mean, you're in a group. These are the people you see every day, and you don't want to be on the outside of that. And you're young and you're in the beginning of your career, and you don't feel like you can come out and say these things. And I am not making excuses. I think that this is human nature and it's reality. And we have to understand that when you see these things, when people are coming back with, gosh, this stuff that is written in these trainings is so extreme. It's like, share your pronouns. If we want to get out of the habit of assuming pronouns, then we need to introduce with our pronouns, this is, I thought we were. It's funny to me because I thought after the last election, the Democrats were like, oh, maybe this stuff isn't the way. And we're hearing on the news, affordability, affordability, let's talk about that. But the radical left, and maybe not even so radical, is still pushing. No, we've got to accept. And I'll never get it. I don't understand why the confusion? Why do they love the confusion, the confusion of pronouns? And that's at a very young age. I mean, the other day we were listening to Rosie o' Donnell talking about her kid, and she's talking about her, and she's saying she this and she that. And she's like, now they are sleeping with me and they, they're doing this. And the girl that was sitting with me, she goes, who is she talking about? And I said, the kid. And she was like, and like another person. And I was like, no, just the kid. This is the confusing. I mean, it's not even proper grammar. Nobody knows what people are saying, but.

[Erica Sanzi]

At least with that, it's her own life. Yes. And it's her private if that's what she wants to do. Right. My issue is you're telling public employees in a publicly funded school system.

[Tudor Dixon]

That's what I mean. These, they have to.

[Erica Sanzi]

I mean, it just, it says, add your pronouns to badges, emails, documents and system use pronoun pins if your school ID can't be changed. So now you have to have a lanyard with an ID and a little dumb pin. And it says, and this is another reason why they're keeping their head down. The, the, the people who don't agree, it says misgendering should prompt corrective action and or consequences. So if you're a young teacher and you're told that to not go along with this qualifies as harassment and you should be, you know, punished. I mean, again, there are those out there that are always going to just sort of be that brave type and they're going to be like, I'm not going along with this. But it's not human nature, to your point. And it's also like, they don't want to put their job at risk.

[Tudor Dixon]

Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tudor Dixon Podcast.

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[Erica Sanzi]

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[Tudor Dixon]

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[Erica Sanzi]

Try.

[Tudor Dixon]

Is teaching not hard enough? I mean, I see the kids today. Even so we moved our kids during the pandemic. We went from public school to private school. And even in the private school we have kids that are talking back to the teachers getting sent out of class. And it's so much different than the public school. The public school kids are so much harder to deal with today than when you and I were in school. I mean, I look at the way they behave. It would never have happened when we were in school. You're dealing with that already. You are already dealing with that. You're dealing with all the gentle parents out there that are like, don't, don't say I. We had. I just have to say this because I still can't believe it. We had a teacher who said she was asked by the parent to. And this is in first grade. She was asked by the parent to only reprimand her daughter while having a puppet on her hand. And she brought the puppet to school and told the teacher that only the puppet could talk to her and tell her that she had done something wrong. And the teacher was like, what do I even do with that? And I hear stories like that. I'm like, this generation of parents is challenging. This generation of kids is challenging. And then you have to worry about this, this crap and having to like navigate around all the emotional teachers and teachers union people. What. How do people even stand doing the job? That's why we can't get people to teach.

[Erica Sanzi]

They're barely. I mean, we have seen teachers are 100% at the end of the rope in terms of behavior and discipline for a variety of reasons. One is the behavior is much worse. Just societally it was getting worse anyway. But the pandemic really blew that up. Yeah. Number two.

Schools were under a lot of pressure to make sure that their discipline stats all looked the same in terms of, like, race and identity groups. So they had to juke the stats to avoid, you know, becoming under investigation by the federal government. So suspensions went way down, which meant that students that were.

Very disruptive and. Or violent and. Or putting the safety. And, well, the safety at risk and just the basic learning at risk, they had to kind of be kept in the building. That's obviously a huge problem. Private schools, of course, they obviously also have bad behavior, but because they have much more.

Ability to.

Expel kids, I mean, a public school basically cannot expel a student unless they commit a felony. I mean, it's very difficult for public schools.

[Tudor Dixon]

And if.

[Erica Sanzi]

And if a child has an iep, you know, for being in the special education designation, I'm pretty sure that the federal law says they can't be removed from school more than 10 total days in a school year. So when people hear of classrooms where they're like, there's a student that's so disruptive and violent, the classroom gets evacuated. You know, let's just say twice a week.

[Tudor Dixon]

Let's just say other kids suffer because.

[Erica Sanzi]

All the other kids have to. They suffer, they can't learn. It's total chaos. And the people say, oh, my gosh, you know, why don't you kick them out, expel them, suspend them. Well, these administrators have their hands tied because of federal regulations and federal laws. And so it's not, again, like all of this is so complicated. It's not like an easy, just do X, just do Y. Because on the one hand, you want to meet the needs of the child that's having some sort of serious behavioral disturbance. Right.

[Tudor Dixon]

But you cannot save time.

[Erica Sanzi]

You cannot put inclusion. You cannot say inclusion. The priority is inclusion. To the extent that we're going to make sure that that student gets to be in a mainstream classroom where everything goes off the rails all the time for everybody. Because if you think about it, in addition to the. All the kids whose learning is disrupted, that child with the severe issue going on, their needs aren't being met either.

[Tudor Dixon]

So you're really not serving anybody. Because I am such a fan of our public schools. I'm a public school student, and I think they're so critical to our communities but to hear this, and we took our kids out, and our kids, they have thrived at the school that they're at. And it just is so hard because I want to be like, it's your kids. It's your greatest investment. It's your legacy. Do everything you can to get them the best possible education. And it stinks that that's not happening at public school. And that this kind of stuff, I mean, I look at this, and this advancing LGBTQ plus justice and transgender advocacy, those are words that don't even go together. I don't even know what that means. You know, I'm like, what on earth is this? It shocks me. I know that you guys are gonna. I know you're gonna do more and more research on this, and you're gonna have more, and I. I would love to have you back. I've so enjoyed this conversation, not because this is an enjoyable topic, but because you understand it at a level that most people don't and are able to explain it at a level that most people can't do without getting angry or putting their own opinion in it. But you're just such. The straight facts is so wonderful to hear. So I appreciate you for doing this.

[Erica Sanzi]

Thanks so much for having me. And it's complicated, right? Like, you just can't. Like, people just want things to be black and white, and they never are, but especially when you're talking about K12 education, they're just not. And also, it's in all of our best interests to have thriving, strong public schools in our communities, right? We want parents to have options. We want parents to have options regardless of their income and their zip code. One of those options needs to be a robust, thriving public school system, because that's what most families are going to choose, either because it's all they can afford, it's the most convenient. They have nostalgia for it, or their kid wants to play football or, you know, be in the marching band.

[Tudor Dixon]

That's right. Yes, absolutely. I mean, that is what we gave up. There's no football team at this school. You know, we gave that traditional high school experience up to ensure their safety. And that makes me sad that that's how it has to be and to ensure that they're actually getting an education. And suddenly, I think that we're going to see a massive switch where all of these colleges are putting the SAT back into play, and all these kids actually have to have shown that they've learned, because suddenly these kids get to college and they do testing, and they're like, oh, My gosh, these kids don't know anything. But they have had no SATs, SAT scores for five years. So this year that all gets switched back on at most of these universities. And I just have a feeling that this is. This Covid crash is coming to a head and it's going to be ugly for everyone across the board.

[Erica Sanzi]

Totally. And I think that one thing that people who opine or comment on all of this need to understand is that, like, there's always trade offs.

[Tudor Dixon]

Yes.

[Erica Sanzi]

And I think that's often missing from a lot of the conversation, certainly the online conversation, is that, you know, whatever parents decide to do, you know, or whatever a teacher decides to do in terms of like speaking up or not speaking up or staying in this environment that's getting increasingly chaotic or whatever it is, it's. Everybody's dealing with trade offs. And so I would love it if we could like all, like. I mean, this sounds kind of corny, but it's also true. Like, can't we just have a conversation where we're all saying we want what's best for students and families without immediately, you know, like my. Here, here's my favorite. If you loved your kids, you would take them out of public school.

[Tudor Dixon]

I know what I know.

[Erica Sanzi]

Actually, no, that's my second favorite. My most favorite is if you loved your kids, you'd homeschool them. And I'm always like, guys, I know I love my kids. And I also know I would never do that.

[Tudor Dixon]

No, I'm my kids. We wouldn't survive. Like, I'm not a teacher. That is not that. That would not be me loving my kids. And I know that. And I'm healthy enough to say I know that. But I do think that this is putting a massive amount of pressure on young parents. Like, what am I going to do? And that has been a message that has. You know, these big conferences have people and they're like, this is the perfect. This is the ideal situation. There's no ideal situation. And when you put people in that box, then that's what you. When you start to have people experiencing depression and anxiety, like, I'm not providing the ideal situation. I legitimately know on a daily basis, I'm like, oh my gosh, I just want to get through this day. That's parenting every day. There's no ideal situation. But that's why when we see things like this, I think that we need to call it out. Because it's not just a problem for parents, it's a problem for the teachers who are in the classroom, and they have parents that are going, oh, you're teaching this? And they don't want to be. That's not what they're doing, you know, and.

[Erica Sanzi]

Or they're not. Or they're not.

[Tudor Dixon]

That's what I mean. They're not.

[Erica Sanzi]

They don't even know that their union is putting out this insane, you know, these insane training materials. And they kind of want to be like, listen, I am a member because I kind of have no choice, but, like, I'm not down with this.

[Tudor Dixon]

I know. It's such. It is such a challenge, and I so appreciate having you on, and I definitely want to have you back and talk about what. What else you find out and. And how we can support everybody. I think that you make such a great point, because we are. We are on this train of, like, step away, crush it all. And that's not the answer. It doesn't. You would have so many kids and so many families that would have no solution. So we need to figure out how to make it all work. And I love that you're out there doing that. Erica, Sanzi, thank you so much for being on the podcast.

[Erica Sanzi]

Thanks so much for having me.

[Tudor Dixon]

Absolutely. And thank you all for listening to this episode and for this episode and others, as always, you can go to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also watch it on Rumble or YouTube @Tutor Dixon and join us next time. Have a blessed day.

This is an iHeart podcast, guaranteed.