The Tudor Dixon Podcast: The Politics and Power Struggles Behind Electric Cars with Henry Payne

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show — The Tudor Dixon Podcast
Episode: The Politics and Power Struggles Behind Electric Cars with Henry Payne
Date: September 10, 2025
Host: Tudor Dixon
Guest: Henry Payne, Detroit News auto columnist and radio host

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Tudor Dixon Podcast, featured on The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, takes a deep dive into the politics, economics, and global power struggles surrounding electric vehicles (EVs). With Henry Payne, an outspoken critic of government intervention in the auto industry, the conversation covers the current state of the EV market, the role of US and Chinese policy, industry struggles, and the unintended consequences for consumers, workers, and the environment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of the U.S. Electric Vehicle Market

• The conversation opens on headlines of major automakers (GM, Cadillac) pausing or canceling EV production.
  • Tudor Dixon: “It seems like we're seeing the death of the electric vehicle right now...” (03:06)
• Production slowdowns are linked to fading government incentives and tax credits.
  • Henry Payne: “...it just shows you how unreliable government is as an economic driver. You really want consumer markets driving these things. And that's what we've seen just in the last year, the bottom has fallen out of the EV market.” (04:05)
• Despite years of subsidies and mandates, consumer uptake stalled at about 8%—EVs remain a niche product, not mainstream.

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2. Government’s Role & the “Socialist Model” Debate

• Payne credits government mandates (especially under Biden, Granholm, Whitmer) for driving artificial EV demand, paralleling China’s economic strategy:
  • Payne: “I mean, we've really been in a period driven by government mandates, by government incentives... They really see communist China as the economic model...” (04:05)
• California’s aggressive mandates led companies and investors to chase what seemed to be the future—until political tides shifted.
  • Payne: “...all of this has been government driven for the last four years. And then you could bring in a new administration which is... more free market oriented. All those incentives go away.” (04:05)
• The industry was forced into a “parallel economy”: building EVs for government requirements and gas cars for what customers actually want.
  • Payne: “The industry was basically on two tracks. They were making cars for the government ... and they're making money making vehicles for us, for people who drive. And most people want gas cars.” (08:12)

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3. China’s Strategic Advantage and Market Realities

• China’s dominance in battery-related rare earth minerals is cast not as environmentalism, but as realpolitik.
  • Payne: “They have about 80% of the rare earth minerals that go into battery production. It's a very strategic geographic play on their part. They don't care about a little bit of the environment.” (06:11)
• The US push for EVs is viewed as indirectly bolstering the Chinese economy.
• Payne notes the environmental toll of battery manufacturing, countering “sustainability” arguments.
  • Payne: “Lithium still comes out of the ground... It's a very energy intensive, very messy process... The Chinese... make these batteries, they get them out of the ground. They make them with coal plants.” (08:12)

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4. Reshoring, Trump-Era Policy, and U.S. Auto Industry Dynamics

• American suppliers are starting to “beat China” as auto parts business comes back, thanks to Trump-era trade intervention:
  • Dixon: “He said there was no way that the auto industry and the suppliers could come back in the United States without what Donald Trump did...” (09:40)
• Chinese EVs haven’t entered the US market en masse—Payne argues it's due to high competition and lack of infrastructure, as well as effective lobbying by American manufacturers.

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5. Corporate Strategy: Image, Regulation, and Fluctuating EV Push

• Manufacturers like GM and Ford were swayed by Tesla’s stratospheric valuation and government policies (“the sexy thing was EVs”), but quickly reversed course as incentives vanished:
  • Payne: “I think companies like GM and Ford, VW, others, looked at Tesla and said, how do we get to that kind of market cap? ... At the same time you had this trend... where government was mandating [EVs]. And now here comes the Trump administration... and all of a sudden these companies are doing a U turn...” (14:02)

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6. Market Realities: Consumer Choice vs. Mandate

• The gap between actual consumer demand and policy hopes is made clear with sales stats:
  • Payne: “Chevy sells an Equinox electric vehicle... and a Chevy Equinox gas powered vehicle... In the first six months of this year, the Equinox gas SUV sold 160,000 units. The electric vehicle sold 30,000 units. That shows you the gap between those two markets.” (21:17)
  • Dixon: “Wow.” (24:32)

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7. Energy Strategy and Affordability

• Payne links political decisions to energy prices and related impacts:
  • Lowering gas prices—“gasoline was under $3 a gallon”—is a death knell for EVs that can't compete without expensive gas or heavy subsidy. (25:51)
  • U.S. should exploit its fossil fuel endowment, not cede an advantage to China:
    • Payne: “If the United States wanted to be strategic, we would be pushing gasoline fired cars. Right. Because we have the greatest fossil fuel resources in the world.” (08:12)

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8. Blue-Collar Shifts and Political Realignment

• The battle for the Midwestern working class:
  • Payne: “That used to be the Democrat meat and potatoes was the Midwest working class. And bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US that is all Republican strength now.” (27:41)

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9. State-Level Policy Failures and Local Impact

• Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer is criticized for sticking to an EV-centric, anti-fossil-fuel policy, despite job losses and higher energy rates that pushed battery plants elsewhere.
  • Payne: “So if you're the auto industry... you put your battery plants down south, where there's hydro, you put them in Tennessee, you put them in North Carolina... You're not going to put them in Michigan...” (35:56)
• The collapse of the state-subsidized Lion Electric bus company is used as a case study in government waste and unintended consequences.
  • Payne: “They gave $160 million to an electric bus company called Lion... Guess what? Lion went bankrupt. So now they can't service the buses ... All of a sudden they just have these bricks in their parking lot because the government pushed it on them.” (36:56)

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10. Larger Themes: Sustainability “Religion” and Policy Lessons

• Payne compares today’s “sustainability movement” to Prohibition—in his words, “carbon is the source of all evil in the world."
  • Payne: “I call it the second prohibition era. 100 years ago, temperance became obsessed with alcohol... I think there's a similar thing going on today where you have this sustainability movement [obsessed with] carbon.” (29:45)
• Perverse policy incentives cited as warning for voters.
  • Dixon: “I think this is such a good lesson in be careful who you elect and be careful what they're saying...” (38:19)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Henry Payne: “It just shows you how unreliable government is as an economic driver. You really want consumer markets driving these things.” (04:05)
• Payne: “The Chinese ... don’t care about the environment. To them it’s a strategic play.” (06:11)
• Payne: “Electric vehicles have really had a hard time getting traction here beyond a certain subset of customer... because EVs are inferior to gas cars.” (10:51)
• Payne: “You get the wrong public policy in place and it causes all kinds of perverse incentives.” (29:45)
• Tudor Dixon: “I just think that this is a critical time for us to look at who's running for office and make sure they are not promoting these perverse policies of huge government... because ultimately we end up with industries that don't function.” (38:19)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:06] Welcome and setup of electric vehicle “death” narrative
• [04:05] Payne on government-driven EV market and policy whiplash
• [06:11] The role of Michigan governors and China as “economic model”
• [08:12] Environmental costs of battery production
• [09:40] Re-shoring and Trump-era actions against China
• [10:51] Why Chinese-made EVs have not penetrated the US market
• [14:02] Corporate strategy: chasing Tesla’s market cap, government mandates, and the pivot back
• [21:17] Cadillac’s EV stall, stock sales, consumer demand
• [24:32] Sales statistics revealing consumer preferences
• [25:51] Energy prices, government incentives, and EV viability
• [27:41] Shift of working-class support from Democrats to Republicans
• [35:56] Michigan’s failed battery plant and school bus programs; local energy policy impacts
• [38:19] Dixon’s call for voter vigilance and reflection on policy consequences

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Tone & Language

The discussion is direct, opinionated, and often critical of government intervention, echoing the show’s conservative-populist style. There are moments of humor and personal anecdote (Dixon’s love for her Tahoe), but the main thrust is serious and policy-oriented, reflecting deep skepticism of subsidies, mandates, and “sustainability dogma.”

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Conclusion

Dixon and Payne argue that the electric vehicle push in the U.S. has been largely top-down, driven by political ideology and incentives rather than consumer demand or economic efficiency. With the fading of government support, major auto companies are retreating from ambitious EV goals, underscoring the power of market realities. The episode closes with a warning about electing leaders who promote sweeping government interventions, as such policies may entrench inefficiency, waste, and loss of American competitiveness.

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For the full conversation and additional analysis, listen to the complete episode at The Tudor Dixon Podcast or on your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Tudor Dixon]

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[Tudor Dixon]

Welcome to the Tudor Dixon Podcast. Today we have Henry Payne with us. He is the Detroit News auto columnist and the host of the weekly car radio program for 9:10am Detroit. And I wanted to talk today about electric vehicles. It seems like we're seeing the death of the electric vehicle right now, but Henry is the expert. So I welcome him here to today to tell us all about what's going on with the industry.

[Henry Payne]

Yeah, hey Tudor, great to be with you. Lots going on in this industry.

[Tudor Dixon]

There's so much because right now, so we obviously in Michigan, we're extra sensitive to this, but I think everybody across the nation, so many states have started auto manufacturing that we're kind of all sort of waiting in anticipation of what's about to happen. But we're seeing that GM is pausing production and in some cases they are canceling production on their EVs. So I'm wondering if you think this is a kind of proactive response to them anticipating these tax credits running out at the end of the month.

[Henry Payne]

Yeah, it's really been an extraordinary period these last few years. And it shows the flaw with socialism, with government run market economics. I mean, we've really been in a period driven by government mandates, by government incentives going back through the Biden administration. And it really, I mean, it shows you how far that party has moved left. They really see communist China as the economic model and they have been trying to follow that for the last four years, trying to force an electric vehicle market like China has done and trying to subsidize that billions and billions of dollars going into battery plants, huge mandates from the epa, from California, forcing manufacturers to eliminate their fossil fuel burning cars. So all of this has been government driven for the last four years. And then you could bring in a new administration which is a free market, more free market oriented administration. All those incentives go away. And it just shows you how unreliable government is as an economic driver. You really want consumer markets driving these things. And that's what we've seen just in the last year, the bottom has fallen out of the EV market.

[Tudor Dixon]

There was a lie almost where they told us, you know, if we subsidize this long enough this is going to catch on. The infrastructure will be there. There was never enough infrastructure there. And I mean, look at the state of Michigan. You had the governor who was putting even Michigan tax dollars into creating this industry. And the idea was, okay, after a certain amount of subsidies, this is going to catch on and the market will take it never did. So was that just government saying we're going to subsidize this forever and we didn't know?

[Henry Payne]

Yeah. Actually two of the public policymakers at the center of this are Michigan governors. Former Michigan governor Jennifer Granholm, who is the head of the Energy Department, current governor Gretchen Whitmer really, really took communist China as their model. And the idea that the transportation sector is 30% of CO2 emissions, which is not actually accurate. I mean, the individual transportation sector, the cars you and I drive, are about 6% of CO2 emissions. But. And so that's who they targeted really most transportation emissions, if you look at the world that way, are from trucks and from this huge industry infrastructure we have. It's going back and forth, but typical government, they came after us, they go after individual choice first. And so you really have this sort of parallel economy where consumers were buying what they want, but the government, through the Biden EPA and through California, which is the most aggressive state, we're trying to force electric vehicles with these subsidies and with these mandates. And the irony is the reason that China, which is a fully socialist economy, the reason that they're pushing electric vehicles is because they have about 80% of the rare earth minerals that go into battery production. It's a very strategic geographic play on their part. They don't care about a little bit of the environment. Yeah, they don't care about the climate change. I mean, to them it's a strategic play.

[Tudor Dixon]

Well, isn't this also just kind of exchanging one environmental issue for another? Because it's not like making batteries is very healthy for the environment, right?

[Henry Payne]

Yeah. I mean, lithium still comes out of the ground. I mean, it's a very energy intensive, very messy process. So there's this sort of fanciful religious movement, the sustainability movement in the world right now that the elites have glommed onto and this idea that you can make everything without touching the earth, without touching Mother Earth. But the Chinese, they make these batteries, they get them out of the ground. They make them with coal plants. They have a huge coal plant infrastructure that's producing this. I mean, if the United States wanted to be strategic, we would be pushing gasoline fired cars. Right. Because we have the greatest fossil fuel resources in the world. So it's a little perverse to use Communist China as your economic model. But that's what the Energy Department did under Jennifer Granholm. The industry was basically on two tracks. They were making cars for the government electric vehicles in order to meet these mandates. And they're making money making vehicles for us, for people who drive. And most people want gas cars. If you look at the electric vehicle market, it really is a niche market, and it's. And it's sort of this year we've really seen it stall at about 8% of sales.

[Tudor Dixon]

Well, I mean, I think it's very interesting that you brought up China. I was just having a conversation with one of our Michigan manufacturers earlier last week, and he was saying we're suddenly seeing he makes parts for cars, so he's a supplier to the auto industry. And he said we're now seeing a bunch of these parts that were being made in China that in the 2008-2013 era started to go over to China and they were making them for much less expensive. He said, we're starting to see those coming back now. So it's almost like we're beating China. But a similar. He said something to me that I really hadn't thought about. He said there was no way that the auto industry and the suppliers could come back in the United States without what Donald Trump did, because he said we would get in the numbers that our auto companies were paying to China. He said China can't make it for that money. They are heavily subsidizing it to have control over the US Market. So they were paying to make. To make American auto parts just to have control over the American market. And that was not being seen by our elected officials. How could we let China have control over something so critical?

[Henry Payne]

Right. Yeah. Classic socialist model. You subsidize your homegrown industry and then you hope to put other industries out of business in other countries. So, yeah, it's a lot of money that the Chinese are investing in that market. But if you look in this market, they haven't come here. Why have the Chinese have come here? In some of their subsidiaries, Geely, for example, owners runs Volvo. And so you do see Volvo electric vehicles here, but the big Chinese manufacturers haven't come here. I mean, this is a very difficult consumer market to come into. It is by far the richest, most competitive market. And the electric vehicles have really had a hard time getting traction here beyond a certain subset of customer that has multiple cars in their garage because EVs are inferior to gas cars. The gasoline engine is just so efficient at getting you from point A to point B. You can fill up a 500 mile tank in two minutes and be on your way. Most electric vehicles don't even have 500 miles of range. I have a Tesla for example. I drive my Tesla on long trips. I can go 250 miles on a charge and then I have to sit at a charger for a half hour in order to get that 250 miles back. So it's just not nearly as efficient as gasoline. And the only reason that this push has been coming is because the US Government and state governments like California have been trying to force this on the industry but the consumer just hasn't bit and that's why you're seeing the market flatline line here at 8%.

[Tudor Dixon]

Well, you said something interesting. You said the Chinese haven't come here and I think what you meant by that is that they their cars because they have their own brands in China and they haven't been able to bring their Chinese vehicles into the United States. I think there's a couple of reasons for that. I mean part of it I think is where would people, there's not the infrastructure like you said, you have to stop. But if you had a massive influx and the Chinese could get, have a massive influx of electric vehicles all at one time, there would by no means be the, the infrastructure to actually charge these cars. But I think the second thing is that the auto industry has hundreds of lobbyists. They're not going to let anybody come into the United States. They're certainly not going to let China come into the United States and take away their entire industry and say okay, they've, they've already perfected electric vehicles. They're going to come in and they're just going to take over this industry and then nobody's going to, you know, the story back then was that nobody would drive a gas vehic vehicle ever again. And California was already well on their way to say we're done with gas vehicles. So my question to you is if they could stop all of that with their lobbyists, why did they allow this subsidizing of EVs to occur in the United States when they weren't seeing the sales, they saw the numbers.

[Henry Payne]

Yeah, that's a really good question. You know, we've seen large corporations in this country become very woke, become very sensitive to cultural media trends. I think that's part of it. They want to appear to be progressive, they want to be in line with the media narrative that they're doing good things for the earth. But they also saw a very successful US electric company called Tesla become a trillion dollar company. I mean, if you look at General Motors today, which is the largest US manufacturer in the United States, Fortune 500 company, their market cap is $55 million. Tesla, which doesn't sell anywhere near as many vehicles as GM does, has a $1 trillion market cap. And so I think companies like GM and Ford, VW, others looked at Tesla and said, how do we get to that kind of market cap? And so when they went to the capital markets, that was the sexy thing, was to offer electric vehicles. And at the same time you had this trend where the government was California, for example, by next year was mandating that 35% of vehicles sold had to be electric. And so they were seeing that trend from governments. And so they're trying to dovetail the Tesla experience with the government experience. And now here comes the Trump administration, takes away California's privilege to set those kind of mandates, takes away the $7,500 tax credit, and all of a sudden these companies are doing a U turn and going back to what the majority of the market wants.

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Exclusion Supply America is changing and so is the world.

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[Tudor Dixon]

Yeah, I guess if you're a manufacturing company and you look and say, well there's an entire state now that is going to require a new type of vehicle. That's opportunity. You know, you don't see that as a negative. You see that as opportunity to pick up that business. But now it seems like that's changing a bit. We're seeing that Cadillac is pausing their production on the LYRIQ, on the VRIQ in some cases that that vehicle costs almost $100,000. So all of these people that purch lyric in the last few years, I just wonder if they're going what does this mean? Because in at the same time as we see Cadillac pausing production on these EVs, the CEO of GM is also selling off 40% of her stock, which actually shocks me. I'm shocked that any company allows their CEO to have such a massive sell off all at once. What does that mean?

[Henry Payne]

Yeah, these company you're probably better qualified than I am to speak to. You know how business works in these corporations. Mary Mary Barra's incentive is mostly through stock options. She makes about $30 million a year, but 2 million of that is salary. So the rest of it is stock options. And so yeah, there's a lot of triggers that sell stocks. There are algorithms. Like I say, I'm not an expert on business executive packages. I don't think that has anything to do with the current market. I mean relatively speaking, GM stock is okay. They IPO'd a decade ago at about $33 a share. They're at $55 a share now. Relatively speaking I think they're okay. They're nowhere near Tesla market cap as I say. But I think the other thing that's going on with GM with the Cadillac is they're trying to of they're trying to make that an international brand again. Cadillac used to be the global standard for luxury vehicles. It lost that halo to BMW, to Mercedes, to Audi. And so Cadillac sees a chance to refresh itself as an all electric brand. And so it's selling internationally for the first time in a long, long time going into Europe, which is mandating electric vehicles, all electric vehicles by 2035. Think of that. Go to Europe and you will not be able to buy a gas powered vehicle in the next 10 years. And so they see opportunity there in these international markets. I think that's what's going on with Cadillac. But I tell you that the GM is so big and again when you get government regulation in place like this, it favors big companies. Right? It makes it very hard for smaller entities to get into the market market. GM is big enough that they basically make parallel lines of an electric vehicle to satisfy the government and gasoline lines to satisfy the consumer. And to give you an example of how different those two markets are, Chevy sells an Equinox electric vehicle, the Equinox ev. And they sell a Chevy Equinox gas powered vehicle in the, in the midsize SUV segment, the biggest segment in the industry. In the first six months of this year, the Equinox gas SUV sold 160,000 units. The electric vehicle sold 30,000 units. That shows you the gap between those two markets.

[Tudor Dixon]

And those are all sold in the.

[Henry Payne]

U.S. yes, that's U.S. market share. So you read the press. The press has become big cheerleaders for the EV mandates. And they talk about how popular the Chevy Equinox has been, selling 30,000 units in the first six months this year. It's nowhere close to the gas equinox at 160,000.

[Tudor Dixon]

Wow. So I hear what you're saying about Cadillac being, I guess, trumped by the other brands and suddenly they're becoming the, the luxury brand. But I have to say I have a Tahoe which is like the, you know, lower, even one step down from the Cadillac. And I think it is absolutely the best car. I think it, I mean outside of the fact that we do, we use a lot of gas, but it is so, it's so beautiful. I think the American manufacturers have done such an amazing job with every, every detail that I need. All, every detail that the kids need. I mean the car is like, it's like driving our little house around. We took the, from Michigan to South Carolina this year. It was absolutely fantastic. I will say that there's been, you know, a few things here and there that Cadillac or GM always calls me and, and, and I always get a note from Chevy saying bring the car in. They have great service. I mean, maybe it's just my area, but I absolutely adore my car. I adore my dealership. I think that they are fabulous every time I walk in there. But I do wonder when people are going to these foreign brands, are they not seeing what the American brands have done to improve? Because I think Cadillac is top of the line.

[Henry Payne]

Well, and you look at where GM makes its money, that's where it makes its money. And again, this is the perversity of government regulation. The United States customer is the richest customer in the world. The United States has the greatest reserves of fossil fuels under our feet in the world. Right. So you would think that government would want to aid General Motors and Ford and Stellantis by helping them build these big vehicles that Americans want and then put cheap gas in them. And that's what the Biden administration did everything possible to resist that, to model the US auto economy after China as opposed to the streng that our economy have here. And so the Trump administration, I think very smartly has come in. They've not only taken away these regulations, but they've also really emphasized energy production. And so you see the gas prices going down. I was driving back from Northern Michigan over the weekend. Gasoline was under $3 a gallon. Electric vehicles, by the way, cannot compete against a sub$3 gas. Gasoline has to be about $4.50 in order for electric vehicles to make sense really in terms of charging expense on the road. So the cheaper you make gasoline, the better it is for you and your Tahoe, but the worse it is for governments trying to force electric vehicles. So you can just. It's such a perverse incentive game that the Democrats have put in place. And now you have. On top of that, they've lost the Midwest working class, right?

[Tudor Dixon]

Yes.

[Henry Payne]

These autoworkers, the uaw, Brian Pennebecker, I have him on my radio show frequently, who leads a group of autoworkers here in the Midwest. They all embrace Donald Trump's not only his low energy, his cheap energy campaign, but also bringing jobs back to the United States. That used to be the Democrat meat and potatoes was the Midwest working class. And bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US that is all Republican strength now. And you see it because the Tahoe, these truck based vehicles that GM makes, they're moving back up here to lake oriented in Michigan from Mexico and they're going to fill that entire plant deal. Yeah, that plant was going to be an electric plant. The electric market is stalled. It's going to decline more without the tax credits and the vehicles are going to be coming in there with us. Jobs are going to be vehicles like Tahoes and Chevy Silverados.

[Tudor Dixon]

Go get a Tahoe. It's great. I know, I'm like doing an ad for it right now, but I tell you, I absolutely love it. But you said something I want to get to because earlier in the podcast you said, look, China has the biggest stores of, of these rare earth minerals of anybody in the world. And that is why they want electric vehicles, because for them they have the fuel that makes it. They're able to make these batteries in the United States. Our fuel and our benefit is that we have the oil, we have the reserves there so why on earth would we say we are going to fund China's new industry and help them to create these rare earth mineral batteries that are so dangerous to the environment and so dangerous with child labor and human rights. I mean, everything on the EV side of it, especially related to China, sounds bad. Why would the government fund that?

[Henry Payne]

Yeah, it's just the power of the sustainability religion. I call it the second prohibition era. 100 years ago, the temperance movement became obsessed with alcohol and alcohol was a source, source of all evil in the world. And we got the alcohol prohibition era. I think there's a similar thing going on today where you have this sustainability movement has become convinced that carbon is the source of all evil in the world, that it causes hurricanes, it causes heat waves, tornadoes, it's going to destroy everything. The Biden administration called it the greatest existential threat to mankind, that we were going to go extinct because of carbon emissions. And so I think there's this obsession with that, with carbon prohibition and then it drives perverse policy just like we saw 100 years ago with alcohol prohibition. I mean, think of it, the Chinese, they haven't come into this market just because I just don't think they feel like their products are competitive here. But they have gone into Europe. They see that Europe is going down this obsessive anti carbon policy line where they're eliminating all of their fossil fuel vehicles. They make some of the best VW BMW, they make some of the greatest internal combustion engines in the world and their governments are eliminating that advantage. And the Chinese have come in and they've already taken about 12% of the European market because of this carbon obsession that you've seen that's causing Europe problems not only on their vehicle automaker front, but also in places like their dependence on Russian natural gas. Right? So yeah, you just, you get the wrong public policy in place and it causes all kinds of perverse incentives.

[Tudor Dixon]

Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tudor Dixon podcast.

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[Tudor Dixon]

Last year I think they were projecting three VW plants closing in Germany, which I think is devastating. First car was a vw. I had a Volkswagen Corrado. It was like the coolest car. And my kids, every day they're always like, punch bug. I mean, this morning on the way to school, they're looking for a VW bug to punch each other. You know it's like it's part of our culture. And to think that that's just gone. And you talked about perverse policies. I mean, obviously we've seen this over in Europe for quite some time, but in Michigan, we saw this up close and personal because Gretchen Whitmer, she really did, did put all of the Michigan eggs into the EV basket. And while we were seeing our industry decline and this is our legacy, legacy industry, as we were seeing the automotive industry go to Tennessee, go to Kentucky, go to Ohio, go to Indiana, she kept saying, we're going to get the next battery plant. And it never came. Do you think that these politicians should be held accountable? I mean, she is definitely running for president. What could be, what could happen to us if we end up with her in Washington, D.C. yeah, I mean, well.

[Henry Payne]

Transparency and good reporting like you do is important. I mean, you look at the battery piece where, where battery production is enormously energy intensive. So if you're the, if you're the auto industry, where do you, where do you put your battery plants? You put them down south, where there's hydro, you put them in Tennessee, you put them in North Carolina. Places that have really low utility rates because, because it costs so much, much. You're not going to put them in Michigan, you know, just, you know, because of, you know, geography and other reasons.

[Tudor Dixon]

And because we have the highest energy rates in the Midwest. I mean, that's something that here you have the governor who clearly knows that our energy costs the highest amount in the entire Midwest. And yet Gretchen Whitmer said, yes, push the EV industry that is highly energy intensive. AI, another industry highly energy intensive. Those are the few future. They're not coming to Michigan or. They were the future then and AI still is. We still have the highest cost.

[Henry Payne]

Right. And so, so those plants are going to other states and Whitmer's doubling down, eliminating the, you know, the fossil fuel industry here, shutting down coal plants. It just doesn't, yeah, government just, yeah. Just doesn't. It's not good at running economies. And, and you're seeing that take place. I mean, there's, there's a, there's a, you know, this, this, this policy was so comprehensive by the, by the Biden administration and the Whitmer administration that they gave $160 million to an electric bus company called lion, right. Which is supplied a lot of school districts, including districts here in Michigan. There's a school district east of or west of Ann Arbor here that, that got a bunch of electric buses from Lyon. Guess what? Lyon went Bankrupt. They went bankrupt. So now they can't service the buses. The school district, which paid $350,000 for each one of these school buses versus a typical $150,000 diesel bus. All of a sudden they just have these bricks in their parking lot because the government pushed it on them. Then the company went bankrupt. Now they have to go back to diesel buses. You know, it's, it's, it's created so many perverse incentives, and now it's even hurting school districts in this state.

[Tudor Dixon]

I mean, but you're absolutely right. I think this is such a good lesson in be careful who you elect and be careful what they're saying. I mean, right now we have elected officials in Michigan who are running for higher office. I mean, Mallory. Mallory McMurrow is one of them that comes to mind. She has said she wants to put a tax on Lions games. The minute the Lions started winning, Democrats wanted to tax Lions, so let's put an entertainment tax in. And there were people across the state that said, well, we'll just do it in Detroit. And she came out and said, let's put an entertainment tax in on the entire state. And I just think that this is a critical time for us to look at who's running for office and make sure they are not promoting these perverse policies of huge government and government taking over anything, everything. Because ultimately we end up with industries that don't function. And we're thankful that the auto industry seems to be coming back. And I hope that it comes back back big time in the state of Michigan. But I know you'll keep us posted on that.

[Henry Payne]

Absolutely. Boe's always willing to talk. Tutor.

[Tudor Dixon]

Well, thank you so much for coming on Henry Payne. You can find him at the Detroit News and you can find him on the radio, but he's definitely a wealth of information for us. Thank you so much for coming on today.

[Henry Payne]

Yeah, thanks, Tutor. Great to be with you.

[Tudor Dixon]

Absolutely. And thank you all for joining us on the Tudor Dixon podcast. For this episode and others, go to tutordixonpodcast.com the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you watch, listen to your podcast. You can watch it on Rumble and YouTube uterdixon and join us the next time. Have a blessed day.

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[Asma Khalid]

America is changing and so is the world.

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But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

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Tristan Redman in London and this is the Global Story.

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Every weekday we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

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