The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Understanding Ukraine vs. Russia with Rebekah Koffler

Summary

Summary of "The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Understanding Ukraine vs. Russia with Rebekah Koffler"

Release Date: March 24, 2025

In this insightful episode of the Tudor Dixon Podcast, host Tudor Dixon engages in a profound discussion with Rebecca Koffler, a Russian-born strategic military intelligence analyst and author of Putin's Playbook: Russia's Secret Plan to Defeat America. The conversation delves deep into the complexities of the Ukraine-Russia conflict, exploring geopolitical strategies, leadership dynamics, and the role of misinformation in shaping public perception.

---

1. Introduction to the Conflict

Tudor Dixon opens the conversation by highlighting the urgency of addressing President Trump's promise to swiftly resolve the Ukraine-Russia war. He emphasizes the complexities involved in negotiating with formidable leaders like Putin and Zelensky.

2. Trump's Negotiation Challenges

Rebecca Koffler provides a critical analysis of President Trump's negotiation capabilities in dealing with Putin. She states:

"Putin is a completely different animal. He's different than anyone Trump has dealt with before. Zelensky has proved himself to be an extremely talented actor, but he's a con artist."
[02:39]

Koffler argues that Trump's background as a business leader may not equip him adequately for the intricate dynamics of international diplomacy, especially against a strategic adversary like Putin.

3. Russia's Strategic Security Perimeter

The discussion shifts to Russia's longstanding objective to establish a strategic security perimeter, akin to the Monroe Doctrine. Koffler explains:

"Putin wants to restore what the Russians call a strategic security perimeter on which Russia relied for centuries for each security."
[06:05]

She critiques the U.S. and NATO's push to integrate Ukraine into the alliance, asserting that Ukraine does not align with America's vital interests and that this move has inadvertently empowered Putin.

4. Critique of NATO and Western Policies

Koffler is notably critical of NATO's role and the financial burdens it imposes on the United States. She points out:

"Only eight countries out of 30 paid even 2% to this day, $2. Germany, the richest country in Europe, does not pay 2% because they think we are suckers, we're just going to continue pumping in..."
[12:00]

She draws parallels with past U.S. military engagements in Afghanistan and Iraq, highlighting the immense costs and questionable outcomes of prolonged foreign interventions.

5. Media's Simplistic Narrative

A significant portion of the conversation addresses the mainstream media's portrayal of the Ukraine-Russia conflict. Koffler emphasizes:

"The whole narrative that the mainstream media has built is still primitive. Putin bad. Zelensky good. Russia bad. Ukraine, well, they're both bad. So let's just unpack this. It's nonsense."
[07:51]

She criticizes the media for oversimplifying complex geopolitical issues, thereby misleading the public and obscuring the underlying strategic motives of global powers.

6. Zelenskyy's Leadership and Ukraine's Internal Issues

Koffler offers a scathing critique of Ukrainian leadership, particularly President Zelenskyy:

"Zelensky is a miniature Putin... Ukraine is the top corrupt country in Europe."
[24:02]

She accuses Zelenskyy of authoritarian tendencies, corruption, and exacerbating the conflict by authorizing aggressive military actions against Russian territory, which she believes only serve to escalate tensions.

7. The Nuclear Doctrine and War Games

A pivotal segment of the discussion revolves around Russia's nuclear strategy and its implications for global security. Koffler elaborates:

"Putin developed a highly sophisticated nuclear doctrine... every single war game went into the nuclear war and Russia won."
[42:14]

She underscores the existential threats posed by Russia's and China's military strategies, highlighting vulnerabilities in the U.S. defense infrastructure and the pressing need for strategic reforms.

8. Trump's Strategic Moves and Future Outlook

The conversation concludes with an analysis of President Trump's strategic initiatives, such as the establishment of the Space Force, and their significance in countering Russian and Chinese advancements. Koffler praises Trump's foresight:

"Trump was playing a very multidimensional, kind of like chess game because he wants to split up all these alliances that are a threat to the US."
[42:56]

She remains cautiously optimistic about potential negotiations, albeit acknowledging the profound challenges ahead.

---

Key Takeaways

• Complexity of Leadership Dynamics: Effectively negotiating with leaders like Putin requires a nuanced understanding beyond traditional business acumen.

• Strategic Security Perimeter: Russia's objective to re-establish a strategic security zone is a central driver of the Ukraine conflict.

• Critique of NATO and U.S. Foreign Policy: Overextension of military commitments has financial and geopolitical repercussions for the United States.

• Media's Role in Shaping Perception: Simplistic media narratives can obscure the multifaceted nature of international conflicts.

• Internal Corruption and Leadership in Ukraine: Allegations of corruption and authoritarianism within Ukrainian leadership exacerbate regional instability.

• Nuclear Doctrine as a Deterrent: Russia's advanced nuclear strategies present significant challenges to global security frameworks.

• Strategic Initiatives Under Trump: Initiatives like the Space Force are pivotal in countering emerging military threats from adversarial nations.

Notable Quotes

• Rebecca Koffler:
  "Putin wants to restore what the Russians call a strategic security perimeter on which Russia relied for centuries for each security."
  [06:05]

• Rebecca Koffler:
  "Zelensky is a miniature Putin... Ukraine is the top corrupt country in Europe."
  [24:02]

• Rebecca Koffler:
  "Putin developed a highly sophisticated nuclear doctrine... every single war game went into the nuclear war and Russia won."
  [42:14]

• Rebecca Koffler:
  "Trump was playing a very multidimensional, kind of like chess game because he wants to split up all these alliances that are a threat to the US."
  [42:56]

---

Conclusion

This episode offers a critical perspective on the Ukraine-Russia conflict, emphasizing the importance of strategic foresight, leadership integrity, and the pitfalls of overreliance on media narratives. Rebecca Koffler's expertise provides listeners with a deeper understanding of the geopolitical underpinnings that shape international relations and conflict resolution.

For those interested in further exploring these topics, Koffler's book, Putin's Playbook, is highly recommended and available across various bookstores and online platforms.

Transcript

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Tudor Dixon]

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[Clay Travis]

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[Tudor Dixon]

Welcome to the Tudor Dixon Podcast. Okay, okay, everybody knows what is going on with Ukraine and Russia, but do you really know what it's like to deal with Ukraine and Russia? Well, we have someone with us today who does. We've had her on before. It is Rebecca Koffler. She is a Russian born strategic military intelligence and analyst and the author of the book Putin's Playbook, Russia's Secret Plan to Defeat America. She also has her own podcast, it's on X. It's called Censored but Not Silenced. Rebecca, thank you so much for coming back on the midst of all the craziness going on with Russia and Ukraine.

[Rebecca Koffler]

Of course, happy to be here with you and your audience, Tudor. And you're indeed correct. Lots of craziness last few days.

[Tudor Dixon]

Well, so let's get into this because I think everybody goes. This was one of Trump's promises. He's got to come through on this promise. He has to do it quickly. I would argue, you know, he did say he would do it quickly, but this is a president who has Four years to get things done. And he wants to do it correctly. He wants to make sure this war is finished, move on from it. But how do you negotiate with a Putin and a Zelensky?

[Rebecca Koffler]

Well, with all due respect to President Trump, and I do have high respect for him, he is a talented negotiator, highly skilled business leader. He's dealt with characters all over the world. But Putin is a completely different animal. He's different than anyone Trump has dealt with before. Zelensky has proved himself to be an extremely talented actor, but he's a con artist. And Trump really, really needs to understand what he got himself into by promising on his campaign trail that he needs. He wanted to do this in 24 hours. He boxed himself in. And Putin knows that Trump boxed himself in. And that's why Putin believes he has leverage in addition to all kind of other things that give Putin leverage. So these are century old problems and we just think that we're going to waltz in and just solve it just like that. Well, how did that work out for us in Afghanistan? After 20 years, $2.2 trillion and 6,000American lives, we pulled out and the same lunatics with towels on their head are still ruling the country, except they have $85 billion of top secret US equipment. Okay, how many times are we going to repeat? In Iraq, we spent $5 trillion. And this is just math. So at some point you would think that whoever. And again, it's not a slam on President Trump. Well, who are the people who are advising him? Who are those people? Why wasn't he warned? Why didn't they do their homework? And I suspect that they didn't. There needs to be some come to Jesus here, not just in Russia, Ukraine, but in all these other foreign wars.

[Tudor Dixon]

So are you, are you saying then that you think that Putin is going to keep going until he has Ukraine? Is he trying to reconnect the Soviet Union? I mean, what do you. You probably understand Putin's mindset better than most. What is his plan?

[Rebecca Koffler]

The plan?

[Tudor Dixon]

What would you have told Donald Trump? I guess I'm saying, oh, well, I.

[Rebecca Koffler]

Would have told if I had all the time in the world or if he had all the time in the world. I would advise Donald Trump to read my book, Putin's Playbook. It's precisely the reason why I wrote this book, because I was exasperated when I was serving as an intelligence officer back in the DIA. DIA is the military counterpart to CIA. Right. And I personally briefed NATO in September 2013 in Brussels. Right. And not only that I brief President Obama's White House staff, National Security Council scores and scores of combatant commands, the European Command, Northern Command that supposedly is protecting US Homeland from missile strikes. But they missed the balloon, the spy balloon, and all of those people. And I laid it out very clear what Putin's plans were. Putin wants to restore what the Russians call a strategic security perimeter on which Russia relied for centuries for each security. What is the strategic security perimeter? It's their version of the Monroe Doctrine. Just like we wouldn't allow China or Russia station military hardware as close to the US As Canada or Mexico. Neither would Putin. And Putin never made it a secret. He's been saying it ever since he became president. Ukraine is the red line. Ukraine is the red line. Ukraine is the red line. No, Washington. The experts proceeded to push Ukraine into NATO. Why? Ukraine is not part our vital interests. What does it mean, vital interest? US Security and prosperity are in no way, shape or form dependent on Ukraine. Why push them into NATO? Why impoverish US Tax base by sending billions of dollars to the country that is not even a NATO ally. It's not an ally at all.

[Tudor Dixon]

So you're saying that Putin is telling the United States, which he did tell President Trump, I want you to stop sending weapons to Ukraine. Ukraine is off limits. Just leave it there. Now you've got the rest of the world going, my gosh, if you don't protect Ukraine, if Ukraine has no weapons, then Russ is just going to barrel through and take Ukraine and then move on to Poland. And that's the fear that I think is what you're hearing from the mainstream media. That is the fear. And certainly when he says, okay, I promise I won't bomb any more energy infrastructure, and then hours later they go with drones and they bomb energy infrastructure in Ukraine, then that leaves you wondering, okay, if you have nothing there, does he power through, does he then go on to Poland? What is, what's your analysis of that?

[Rebecca Koffler]

So first of all, I am exasperated with the mainstream media because they give you three to five minutes to explain highly complex issues. I mean, I wrote a 300 plus page book on this. How can you explain that? And the whole narrative that the mainstream media has built is still primitive. Putin bad. Zelensky good. Russia bad. Ukraine, well, they both bad. So let's just unpack this. It's nonsense. Whoever said that Putin was going to barrel through Europe just simply does not understand what they're talking about. Putin is not suicidal the minute he cross. And he would never do that. Okay? He would never cross a NATO country. Why is that? There's a thing called Article 5, Collective Defense. If he were to do that and either launch an incursion into Poland, into the Baltics and any of those countries, it would trigger Article 5 and then the US would be obligated to place troops into the battlefield. Putin does not want to face US military, which is the best war fighting force in military history, because then he would need to cross the nuclear threshold. Which is precisely why Putin developed a highly sophisticated nuclear doctrine. Right, because he wants to deter us from meddling in what the Russians perceive as their sphere of influence, the way that we view our Monero doctrine area. Right. So no, Putin wants to do, he doesn't want to reconstitute the USSR in the sense that he doesn't want to make it one country. But what he does want, he wants NATO stay out of these countries and make them neutral. If there was a promise made to Putin before the war, right, and the legal guarantees, they don't work on promises. So that Ukraine is neutral, there would be no war.

[Tudor Dixon]

But why does he want that? I mean, what, what is the what? I mean, there was before the war, it wasn't like there were a lot of people cheering on Ukraine to go after Russia. Why did they invade?

[Rebecca Koffler]

Very simple. Like I said, strategic security perimeter, which has reduced from a thousand mile with the collapse of the Soviet Union to 100 miles. That is a shorter distance than between Washington D.C. and New York City. Can you imagine Russia or China being in New York City, close to New York City, Right. So CIA was building bases, operating bases in Ukraine. They were training Ukrainian soldiers in NATO tactics how to fight. They were training on weapons systems to make sure that they are synchronized at the fire control level. But the Ukrainian knows how to operate those systems. So Putin was watching all that. And in addition to that, everybody knows what happened in Ukraine back in 2014 when the Queen of color revolution for a new land, Hillary Clinton, State Department staged a color revolution there and removed the democratically elected president and installed a new one. And so Zelensky has basically become our puppet. But then he took matters into his own hands because like I said, he's a con artist. He's been using this gravy train to enrich himself. I mean, out of 350 billion, only 71 billion made it to Zelensky according to his own works. Right? So basically we are conned by everybody here, including the Europeans, because the Europeans never wanted to pay for their own security. After I briefed them personally, NATO in 2013, just months prior to Putin's invasion of Crimea, they didn't stir a finger. If they developed a counter strategy, beefed up their force posture, started transitioning onto a wartime footing like Putin did, he transitioned his military economy. They're now producing more missiles in three months than the entire NATO alliance, the United States, including in one year. The Europeans didn't do that. They didn't even pay for their own security at that point. Only eight countries out of 30 paid even 2% to this day, $2. Germany, the richest country in Europe, does not pay 2% because they think we are suckers, we're just going to continue pumping in, you know, they're used to having their own three months vacations and have us basically defend them. And that's why President Trump said enough is enough. Not my money.

[Tudor Dixon]

I mean, I, I agree these NATO countries, I mean, I think most people, once they hear the actual story of, you know, how little NATO is paying for the protection of the United States and the United States is coming in with all this money, I mean, that's what Donald Trump has been talking about since he first ran. Like, we, we are no longer going to fund the world. They're going to have to step up and fund some of their own protection. And I think this war has brought that to the forefront for a lot of people. Before we dive into more with Rebecca Koffler, I want to tell you about my partners at Preborn. When a woman experiences an unplanned pregnancy, she often feels alone and afraid. And so many times her first response is to seek out an abortion. But because of the generosity of listeners like you, that search may lead her to a Preborn Network clinic where she choose life not only for her baby, but for herself. Preborn offers God's love and compassion to hurting women and then provides a free ultrasound to introduce them to the life growing inside of them. This combination brings the ultimate miracle of life to life, which is why preborn sees on average 200 babies saved every day. When Paige found out she was pregnant, she didn't feel she could afford the child, and the father actually threatened her to have an abortion. But when her mom found out, she introduced her to a Preborn Network clinic. At the clinic, Paige was given the support and resources she needed to help her choose life. And the dad even started attending parenting classes with her. Now today, they are raising a beautiful son together. Your tax deductible donation of $28 sponsors one ultrasound. So how many babies can you save? Please donate your gift today. Just dial £250 and say the keyword baby that's £250 baby or go to preborn.comdixon that's preborn.comdixon Sponsored by Preborn hello.

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[Buck Sexton]

Points Cap Apply the best way to understand all sides of an issue is to know all sides of an issue.

[Clay Travis]

Can't get that in the mainstream media. Which is why you've got to listen to some Clay and Buck for another point of view.

[Buck Sexton]

Buck, why are you going third person?

[Clay Travis]

Because, Clay, I think this ad is running in places that might not exactly align with all of our politics or even know who we are.

[Buck Sexton]

It's impossible. But even if it's true, I bet if they did listen, they'd end up agreeing with us on at least one issue, even if they secretly want admitted.

[Clay Travis]

Well, the only way they're going to find out is if they download the Klay Travis and Buck Sexton show podcast on the iHeartRadio app or wherever they get their pods.

[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

But we're already losing people.

[Buck Sexton]

I think I gained one or two just now.

[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Tudor Dixon]

There's this empathy for the Ukrainian people. You know, they've, they were invaded. I mean, are you saying that you think the United States should have just went, you know, this is your problem. We got to stay out of Ukraine.

[Rebecca Koffler]

I don't advise, you know, people what to do. What intelligence mission is, is to tell you what is the odd of the possible, right? When we ask what should we do? Well, my first question is, what do you want? What, what is it that you want to achieve? Achieving peace is right now not possible now that both countries have climbed up, you know, up the tree so high and by, by that, I mean, we have already provided so much and we've already put the world on notice how much we're involved. Just walking out right now, it would make us look like idiots. The world will go, well, here they go again, right? They, they, they stirred up all these chaos. I mean, and then they'll, they'll walk away and they'll forget about it. And that's why we can't, you know, do this. For example, look what's going on in Syria right now. I mean, once the Assad regime collapsed, which basically we were propping up the opposition, right now it's the head choppers who are in charge, right? It's the terrorist regime that is right now in Syria and they are killing Christians like there's no tomorrow. Right? But do you hear this on mainstream media? No. Everybody forgot about Syria. The Russians were trying to prop Assad. There's one thing that leaders in Washington need to understand. There's a reason. And I know it's going to sound harsh and non traditional, but I'm a realist. I was born and raised in Russia. I know my patients. I've dealt with people like Putin and kgb and I was a target myself. There's a reason why dictators like Saddam Hussein, like Bashar Al Assad, like Muammar Gaddafi exist. They keep a lid on all the other lunatics and head choppers, right? Because what happens right now in Syria is insane. People are just slaughtered, but no one talks about that. Same thing is going to happen in Ukraine right now. Putin has surrounded, his voice is surrounded that Kursk region. There's about 2,000 Ukrainian soldiers. He's going to execute them, but that had to be like foreseen, right? Why did Zelensky, it is so insane that that guy authorized the incursion into Russian territory. What did he think was going to happen? He basically demonstrated to Putin that his decision to invade Ukraine was correct. Putin can't tolerate that type of and so did Biden, by authorizing Ukraine to use US Long range missiles to strike deep inside Russia, basically demonstrated to Putin that he has to finish the job and he's going to keep finishing the job.

[Tudor Dixon]

But that was right. I mean, that was just before the Biden administration stepped out of the White House. I mean, he did this, like, he handed this to Donald Trump in such a horrible, horrible way to allow that to, to actually encourage that and provide what they needed to do that. That to me was a shocking moment where we all went, is this just so that Donald Trump has to come into this? And, and here he's president and now he's having to deal with a, you just poked the bear. I mean, you really, you go after Putin and Putin, I mean, I think that Donald Trump plays a very interesting game with him. You know, he's always complimentary because do you go in when you are dealing with a sociopath, do you attack the sociopath? And people go, oh my gosh, you know, he says nice things about him, but I think there's a strategy there with someone that has this personality. And when President Biden left office, he left office with the ultimate insult. Gives Zelensky these weapons, tells him to attack. President Trump, comes in, he now, I mean, that's the ultimate. You're not going to get this fixed in 24 hours. But I do think that Zelinsky is an interesting character here because I don't think people really understand. You know, Americans oftentimes look at countries like Russia and Ukraine and they Americanize them in their minds like, these people are just like us, but they're not just like us. They haven't been raised like us. Their mindset is different. And in, in these countries, and I would say you probably understand Russia better than anyone else. But, I mean, I'll just tell you a story. We were on a vacation one time where we were traveling all over Europe and we, we were in a tour group with this other couple. And the couple, the wife was French and the husband with, was Russian. And he said, you know, it's interesting because I grew up, and where I grew up in Russia, we had, you know, every kid had one doll. They all had like button eyes and they were just, you know, a cloth body. And, and we were told, and we, we had very little food. We sat down, we all ate together. And we were told that people in America lived in the streets. It was horrible. It was terrible. It was a terrible place to live. And that Mother Russia was like, beautiful. We were like the most blessed people on the planet. He said, when I met my wife, she had been a nanny for a family out of Colorado. And she said, I want to take you to the United States. And he said, I went, can't go there. That place is. I mean, it's like the scum of the earth, you know? And she said, oh, I never had that experience. And it was this eye opening moment. She took him into the United States and he was totally mind blown. But Americans cannot understand what it is like to be raised in a country like that where you don't have the access to the media that we have, you don't have the access to the outside world. You don't actually know. So you've got Ukraine, which has historically been listed as one of the most corrupt countries in the world. It's not. This is not a surprise, okay? You've got this guy that takes over, he becomes this champion. I mean, he really is. He has become like this idol across the globe. And we don't really. Normal people step back and go, why is he an idol? He stopped any elections. He won't act like, he won't even dress the part. He acts like a military general and he goes and threatens people and he sits down in the Oval Office and he threatens Donald Trump. What are American people not getting here about how dangerous Zelensky actually is?

[Rebecca Koffler]

Zelensky is a miniature Putin. Let's start with the fact, like, how did he become president? His presidential campaign was financed by an olig named Igor Kolomoisky. If you look up Igor Kolomoisky on the State Department website right now, he is banned. He and his entire family are banned from entry to the United States because he's under multiple, multiple investigations for corruption. Okay? And this is not the first time we'll hear about corruption. Do you hear, do you remember about Shokin and how Joe Biden wanted him to stop, you know, certain. So that, and you're 100% correct that Ukraine is the top corrupt country in Europe. So the Russians and the Ukrainians, they're very similar. So going back to the landscape, no, he's not a Churchill in a T shirt. Like I said, he's a miniature Putin. He also authorized assassinations, including on civilians, just like Putin did. The Daria Dugina who was the daughter of Alexander Dugin in Russia, she was a civilian. The Ukrainian special forces conducted the operations assassinating her on Zelensky's watch at the hand of his SBU bespake Ukraine, which is basically the Ukraine version of the kgb. Right. Gonzalez, there was an American citizen, Liora Gonzalez, who died, who talks about in the mainstream media. They tortured him because they thought he was pro Putin and he was pro Putin. It is crap. What are some of the other atrocities that were committed on Zelenskyy's watch? Right now? Ukraine is outmanned and outgunned. They have no more soldiers to throw into Putin's meat grinder. The average age of Ukrainian soldier is about 43, 45. Right. So would Sbu, the Ukrainian version of the KGB is doing, is running around the streets and grabbing Ukrainian military age men and throwing them back into the battlefield. Right. And there's a whole list of things. He outlawed all the free media. So nine out of 10 news outlets, nudes being in quotes, are financed by USAID. So it's a propaganda. There's no free media. He also outlawed all the opposition parties. So. But because the American people, just like back in Russia when I was growing up, you can't get, you can't get straight news anymore because it's all propaganda. It's all rah rah and cheerleading. You have these generals go on air and keep saying how Ukraine can win. And it's the same generals that got us into all these wars. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, just basically enriching the military industrial complex. The Northrop Grumman, Raytheon Lochit, Martin, why are they on TV saying all these things? Right? And they wouldn't. The mainstream media doesn't put you on a pan, doesn't allow you. Like I called out General Keane, I called out all these people who keep saying how Ukraine can win this war. Put me on the panel with these people and let us go at each other. But no, they give you three and a half minutes to explain, you know, the escalate to de. Escalate nuclear doctrine and, and why Putin hasn't developed it. I mean, it is absurd. And that's why your original question, how come the American people don't understand who's the left is. Well, who's going to tell them there's no, there's no opportunity. I mean, how many. Okay, there's your podcast and I appreciate we can talk about it actually at length and you're actually digging into it. But you know, an average person doesn't have this opportunity unless they go and search for that information.

[Tudor Dixon]

What do you think the American people are expecting? Because I talk to people and they're like, well, wait a minute, he's just going to give Putin what he wants. And he wants, he's just going to put us have a ceasefire and then Putin gets this land and, and how could he just be friends with Putin? And I keep asking them, what are you expecting? Do you want to send troops? Do you want to fight back to get these borders back for Ukraine? What exactly is the answer that American people are looking for? All right, stay tuned. We're going to bring Rebecca Koffler back. But first I want to tell you about my partners at ifcj. After more than a year of war, terror and pain in Israel, the need for security essentials for support for first responders is still critical. Even in times of ceasefire, Israel must be prepared for the next attack, wherever it may come from, because Israel is surrounded by enemies on all sides. The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews has supported and will continue to support the people of Israel with life saving security essentials. Your gift today will help save lives by providing bomb shelters, armored security vehicles, ambulances, firefighting equipment, flak jackets and bulletproof vests, and so much more. Your generous donation today will help ensure the people of Israel are safe and secure in the days to come. Give a gift to bless Israel and her people by visiting supportifcj.org it's one word. It's supportifcj.org or you can call 888-488ifcj. That's 888-488ifcj. 888-488-4325.

[Buck Sexton]

The best way to understand all sides of an issue is to know all sides of an issue.

[Clay Travis]

Can't get that in the machine mainstream media. Which is why you've got to listen to some Clay and Buck for another point of view.

[Buck Sexton]

Buck, why are you going third person?

[Clay Travis]

Because, Clay, I think this ad is running in places that might not exactly align with all of our politics or even know who we are.

[Buck Sexton]

It's impossible. But maybe if it's true. I bet if they did listen, they'd end up agreeing with us on at least one issue, even if they secretly want admitted.

[Clay Travis]

Well, the only way they're going to find out is if they down download the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton show podcast on the iHeartRadio app or wherever they get their pods.

[Buck Sexton]

We're easy to find. Unlike your wife at Costco, Clay, you speak the truth.

[Clay Travis]

But we're already losing people.

[Buck Sexton]

I think I gained one or two just now.

[Clay Travis]

In case you haven't noticed, we like to have a lot of fun as well as talk about what's going on in the world.

[Buck Sexton]

Come hang with us today and every day at Clay and buck. Download the iHeartRadio app. Search out those names, Clay, Travis, Buck Sexton and come hang.

[Tudor Dixon]

You just said Ukraine can't win this war. So, I mean, what would it. What is the answer for people who are saying they want something different from President Trump right now? Are they really expecting us to send troops there and win this war for them? We don't want to enter war with Russia.

[Rebecca Koffler]

That's what Zelensky wants. I mean, he's been pushing. He's been pushing for it. And President Trump called him on that. Remember, President Trump booted him out, this con artist out of the White House and said, you are playing with World War Three. Which is correct. I don't know what American people expect. There's something that is. I honestly don't know because there's such a low information environment that people are busy. American people work a lot, they take care of their families, they can't pass it. So they hear these buzzwords. I don't know what their expectation is, but what I want to say is, no, President Trump is not Putin's friend. He is just a very skillful, I would say, opponent. Right. Putin. Trump understands sort of how Putin deals with other people. President Trump knows that insulting Putin doesn't get him anywhere or anyone else for that ladder. That's why he never insulted, like, you know, Xi Jinping or any of those people, because once you start insulting them, you can't talk to them. Right? And so in talking, even talking right now, even though not much is going to be accomplished in my assessment, because look at this ceasefire that fell Apart less than 24 hours, right, which I was predicting, this deal is unachievable. But as long as you talk to your adversary, the risk of a nuclear war is decreasing.

[Tudor Dixon]

Because I think that you make a really good point here, because I think this is sort of the genius behind President Trump that people don't understand. He knows his audience. And that is half the battle of a negotiation is knowing your audience and knowing when and how to talk to your audience. Because in the. In America, people see Donald Trump, they're like, oh, he's always insulting people and he's being a big bully and he's insulting. In Canada, Canada is different than North Korea, Canada is different than Russia. And you can complain all you want about it, but he knows his audience and he knows how to address his audience. Now, there are going to be people who are going to say, well, why aren't we pushing further? But you just said he doesn't want a nuclear war. And I think people didn't take it seriously when President Trump looked at Zelensky and said, you're playing with World War iii. Because they've never seen those actual communications between two world leaders, between a world leader and another country like that, because those are behind closed doors. But I think Donald Trump was very calculated in what he did because he wanted the American people to see, this guy is unhinged. He wants us to continue to fight, and he wants to draw the United States into World War iii. Because as soon as the United States and Russia are at war, and that's what Zelensky is wanting. Why, I don't understand that, understand that part. But as soon as that happens, that triggers World War Three.

[Rebecca Koffler]

Exactly. And let me ground this in reality, because we're taught, like, people don't understand, like how we come out with this, you know, nuclear war. How, how does that happen? I'll tell you exactly how that happened. Because back in the intelligence community, one of our jobs is to conduct war games, right? And we have a blue team and a red team. And the blue team is the United States military and NATO allies. And the red team is an adversary. It can be Russia, can be China. And so I personally not only participated, I also led red teams. Why do I lead red teams? Because I am Russian born, which means I can think with my Russian brain or I can think with my American brain. And just like you yourself, just a few minutes to go demonstrate it to me that other foreigners, they don't think like Americans. Imagine that, right? The Russians don't think like Americans. And you didn't even serve in the intelligence community. Do you know how many times I had to explain to the supposed experts in the CIA that Russians don't think like Americans? And I was challenged and they would tell me, no, Russians don't think like that. And I would say, seriously, we do not. People are so oblivious. So we would have these war games, right? And they were about like, like more than a dozen. And every single war game, we go at each other, Red and blue team, actually stimulating a conflict. Every single war game went into the nuclear realm. Not immediately, but it escalated exactly out of situation that we have right now in, in Ukraine. And it progressed. There's something called escalation ladder in, in warfare. And you start off very slow. It's with like cyber attacks. And then, you know, first non destructive, then destructive, including like on electrical grid. Then it goes to kinetic missiles, actually fly. Then it goes space warfare. Okay, and space, what does it mean? Why did the Russians develop space warfare? Dr. It's because they understand that everything we are so dependent on satellites. So for every aspect of our warfare, command and control, communications, navigation, targeting, missile strike. Actually, President Trump, thank God, developed the space forces. He stood them up 18 years after the Russians and the Chinese stood up there, okay? That's how far ahead in their thinking they are. So they basically had us, the Russians stand by developing all these various capabilities and saying, don't you dare putting your foot into our sphere of influence, into our backyard. And so going back to the war games, every single war game again ended in the nuclear war and Russia won. Think about that. Why did Russia win? Because Russia understands our vulnerabilities and they develop the doctrine striking at our vulnerability. Imagine if our electrical grid goes down, right? And you don't even need a missile strike. You can just do it with cyber, right? Or you do what's called emp, electromagnetic pulse. The Russians and the Chinese are the same way. They have determined that the US Culture is such that we have a low threshold tolerance for pain. Right? You can apply. That's true, right? Like, imagine no Internet, like, what are the kids gonna do? They can't get on TikTok, okay? Or imagine Iran, like, if we, we don't have like eggs, like, everybody's freaking out right now, right? There's a whole system of measures that the Russians develop as part of that doctrine which I actually described. It's all in my book at the unclassified level. And, and that is why during the war games, Russia won. And it's not only that China also won in war games every single time US was beat. Not because we don't have a bad military. Our military knows how to fight. We are brilliant at the tactical level. Strategically, we're just like so mismanaged because we go in again in these situations, centuries old problems, and we think we're just going to like, solve and make the world a better place. But it just doesn't work like that. It doesn't work. So let's start focusing on our. There's so many people in our country that are suffering, you know, like Ukrainians. And yet we go and we try to solve someone else's freedom, right? Why not bring freedom? Our own freedoms are right? I mean, look at what the leftists are doing to President Trump. I mean, look at what they tried to do. They basically, he was nearly assassinated. Can we just start paying attention to our land and start returning back to the democratic principles here and start spending money here? I know it may sound harsh to Ukrainians and my heart is Bleeding for those people. But Ukrainians don't support Zelensky anymore. He has 4% approval rating, but what.

[Tudor Dixon]

Could you do about it? He won't hold an election. And that's what the American people don't understand. And I think that there are a few things the American people don't understand. That he, He. He's a dictator essentially now, and they say, oh, no, how could you say that? Well, he's chosen to say there will be no more elections, and I make the choices, and the people aren't with him. What do you call that? You know, let's be realistic about what that actually is. And then you think about. You talk about China, you talk about Russia. The value systems are different. And when the United States goes in, they're like, we're not going to leave a man behind. These are different attitudes about people, about life, about everything. It's just totally different about values, about morals, about whether or not how you interact in business. Everything is totally different. And the American people don't realize that. And I think that's what I mean. Even beyond war, what screwed us over with globalization is the fact that we think everybody thinks the same way that we do. And we are a very unique country in that. In that manner. And I agree with you. It is time to put America first. It is time to make sure that we're following up with the other things that President Trump has said that he wants to do, and that is to make America great again, make America safe, focus on our national security. And that's not going to be by getting into World War iii. And just before I let you go, so I will touch on what you said about Space Force, because when he developed Space Force, people went just berserk. Remember? I mean, people are like, oh, my gosh, how stupid, how ridiculous. I used to say to people, you just look at your phone, look at your phone. What would you do if you didn't have your phone? What if you didn't have your car? You couldn't navigate in your car. What if you can't check out at the grocery store? How are you going to do anything? Nobody's going to go back to cash and cash registers like this. All they take us out up there. We. They just walk in, they take us over. You know, Donald Trump has looked at this from a strategic standpoint and looked into the future more than any other president in the United States ever has. And thank goodness he's doing that. And when he sits down with Putin, when he says, you know what? I'm going to negotiate this. He's also looking into the future, unlike Joe Biden was when he said go after Russia, because that was, that was so, so dangerous. It could have sparked the world, the world war. But you know what? But Putin knew Trump was coming in. And Joe Biden, what a coward. He did that just to Peacock as he walked out the door. And he put us all in danger. The only reason he knew we weren't in danger. That's the ironic part about it. He knew we weren't in danger because he knew Donald Trump was coming to the rescue. That's the crazy part about it all.

[Rebecca Koffler]

Absolutely. You nailed it. I am so impressed with how much of a grasp President Trump has, not just on geopolitics, but also on military affairs, because he. Please, just think about that. For 18 years, no other president or military leader, nobody said, let's stand up the space force so that we can develop the capabilities, A, to protect our own airspace and B, to develop the doctrine to give the adversaries like Russia and China the taste of their own medicine. Nobody had the guts to do that or probably didn't even understand.

[Tudor Dixon]

Right, right, right. The foresight. Yes.

[Rebecca Koffler]

And Trump actually did and he did that. And so, yes, let's see what comes out of those negotiations. Even though I'm not very optimistic. Let's just see what happens. But the most important thing is that Trump is trying to restore peace, not just in Ukraine. He wants stability in the world. And Russia is actually the key to a lot of these, these places. Right. Trump was playing a very multidimensional, kind of like chess game because he wants to split up all these alliances that are a threat to the US he want to split up Russia and China. He wanted to split up Iran and Russia and North Korea because. And the other day, President Trump said Russia and China are not natural allies, even though they position themselves as no limits partnership. I mean, that is so astute. I've been saying it for so many years. Why are they not natural allies? Because I know that the Russians consider China as a threat, number two. Right. They would never die because of the longest border in the Far East. And President Trump mentioned that Russia has a lot of land, Chinese have a lot of people. And Moscow has been afraid that Beijing is going to eventually invade that territory. And it's exactly why Putin developed that tactic, tactical nuclear weapon capability and the doctrine. The Russians say they developed it for NATO and for the United States to deter us from meddling into their backyard. But in reality, it's for both. It's for China as well. But just think about how much Trump understands and that's what he wants to do. So let's give him a little time. Same with, like, Russia, Iran, they're not natural. So President Trump wants to prevent Iran from actually operationalizing their nuclear capability. He could potentially use Putin to, to help to make that happen. But there's so many pieces to this. So we just need to give him a little time. Right.

[Tudor Dixon]

And, and he's not ignoring it. I mean, I, I have to say, the fact that he's there, that's a big change from what we've had the last four years. We've had an endless war with no discussion. So I, I mean, I love what you're telling us. Your insight is so appreciated because I think it is important. What you said earlier about actually digging into this stuff is so important because I don't think the American people get the full story. But having you here today was just absolutely amazing. I could talk to you for like, three more hours, of course. And, and people should definitely go read your book, Rebecca Koffler. Tell them where they can find it.

[Rebecca Koffler]

Thank you very much. The book is, can be found anywhere, in any bookstore, wherever the books are sold, including on, on Amazon. And I also regularly publish my intelligence analysis classified version basically on several outlets. Fox News, New York Post, the British Telegraph, and everything is on my X Channel. My handle is at Rebecca 0132 and that's where I also run my podcast that you mentioned, Censored but not silenced. Thank you. Awesome.

[Tudor Dixon]

Thank you so much. And thank you all for listening to the Tutor Dixon podcast. For this episode and others, go to tutordixenpodcast.com, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And join us next time. Have a blessed day.

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[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

Those jelly heads in June would be intellectual warriors by August.

[Clay Travis]

A lot of fun too. Some Bill and Ted's excellent adventure references.

[Buck Sexton]

Thrown in this podcast like a daily dose of that. Minus the campfires, archery and pranking the girls.

[Clay Travis]

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