The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Untold Stories of the American Revolution

Summary

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The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Untold Stories of the American Revolution

Date: May 22, 2026
Host: Tudor Dixon
Guest: Dr. Matthew Spalding (Dean, Hillsdale College; Author of "The Making of the American Mind")

Overview

This episode dives into the little-known stories and deeper ideas behind the American Revolution, focusing on how the founding era was shaped by a fusion of biblical, classical, and Enlightenment influences. Dr. Matthew Spalding joins Tudor Dixon to celebrate the 250th anniversary of America's founding, sharing overlooked tales of heroism, the pivotal role of biblical principles, and why these stories—and their moral foundations—remain vital today.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Power and Relevance of Revolutionary Storytelling

• History Has Become Watered Down

  • Tudor notes that today’s students often receive a diluted version of American history, missing the drama and depth of the Revolution.
  • Dr. Spalding underscores the emotional and patriotic appeal of these stories:

    “Stories is a way to get to the human heart. Cause that's really where patriotism starts.” [04:20]

• The Dynamic Nature of the Founding

  • The founders were not just statuesque figures—they were real, energetic individuals facing momentous danger and uncertainty.
  • The American Revolution was not a foregone conclusion; its outcome was far from certain:

    “The American Revolution was a close run thing. It could have gone a different direction.” [11:20]

  • The Declaration of Independence was adopted in the midst of active war:

    “When the British were invading New York at the precise moment they passed the Declaration of Independence, that was the largest naval and land invasion in world history prior to World War II.” [11:20]

Untold and Forgotten Stories from the Founding Era

• Cesar Rodney’s Midnight Ride

  • Delaware’s critical vote for independence came because Rodney traveled overnight through a storm to break a tie—an act often omitted from standard retellings.

    “He travels overnight in a storm...arrives the morning of July 2nd at the very moment they're voting. And he votes in favor of independence. That flips the Delaware delegation.” [08:03]

  • His statue was torn down during recent protests, despite his crucial role, only to later return to display.

• Thomas Jefferson Almost Wasn't There

  • Jefferson was only an alternate delegate to the Continental Congress and ended up as the principal author of the Declaration by chance:

    “It was by sheer chance that another member...was pulled away...and so they sent in Jefferson at the last moment.” [10:12]

• Providence and the Fog at Brooklyn Heights

  • Washington’s escape from annihilation at the Battle of Long Island was attributed by the founding generation to providential intervention:

    “A fog came up...The British ships could not get into the harbor. They couldn't even see Washington's army. And it lasted long enough for Washington's army to escape.” [35:25]

The Radical Foundations—Equality and Faith

• "All Men Are Created Equal" as a Radical Doctrine

  • The founders’ assertion of equality was a profound break from global tradition:

    “It was radical. It still is a radical concept in history today.” [13:52]

  • Inspired by both classical thought (Greek and Roman ideas of shared human nature) and a biblical worldview:

    “The overwhelming thing that gets them to the point...is Christianity, the biblical Judeo-Christian worldview which saw all men and women, all races, created in the likeness and image of God.” [13:52]

• Role of Christianity and Religion

  • Not all founders were devout in the modern sense, but the culture was steeped in Christian moral thought and scriptural literacy:

    “The signers of the Declaration represent a wide swath of mainstream Christianity, many of which were quite conservative.” [20:49]

  • Sermons—not philosophical treatises—were the most influential publications before and during the Revolution, shaping both moral outlook and political resolve.

• Avoidance of Religious Factionalism

  • The founding intentionally avoided establishing a single religious doctrine to prevent the religious wars that plagued England, focusing instead on protecting the moral framework:

    “But underneath that, it's very powerful. Their world is shaped by an understanding of virtues and vices and of goods and moral goods...” [23:51]

Religion, Providence, and American Exceptionalism

• A Theology in the Declaration

  • Multiple references in the Declaration to God and providence, yet intentionally broad to include many traditions.
  • The proposed national seal by Franklin, Adams, and Jefferson depicted Moses leading the Israelites, further indicating the nation's self-understanding as rooted in divine providence.

    “But government, at the very least in the Declaration you see, is a certain hat tip that, yeah, there is this divine order of things. Men are created equal, they're endowed by their Creator.” [29:57]

• Washington's Humility and Self-Restraint

  • The Revolution’s hero did not become a king, resisting personal aggrandizement in favor of principle.

    “Washington is a very special case. His character is such that he turned down being made king. He was head of an army... yet he becomes the first president and then he resigns as first president.” [38:29]

Teaching and Preserving the Legacy

• History Education in Decline

  • Dixon and Spalding lament that history is often neglected in schools, making parental or independent efforts essential:

    “It's so critical that if your child isn't getting this story at school that you bring this story to them. That's why your book is so critical as well.” [42:06]

• Imparting Moral and Historical Wisdom

  • The story of America is both inspirational and honest—full of flaws, failures, and also transcendence:

    “What's amazing about it is, is that these group of individuals, many of whom were flawed, overcame a lot of those flaws to create a great nation and to put a nation dedicated to a set of principles which we always have then tried to live up to as best we can, as fallen individuals.” [40:39]

  • C.S. Lewis is cited:

    "The greatest human stories...sometimes...surprise us because they force us to transcend ourselves, and they even point towards the eternal." [40:39]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Storytelling’s Power:
  “Find stories as a way to get to the human heart. Cause that's really where patriotism starts. You gotta love something, but then you gotta know it, and knowing it makes you love it more.”
  — Dr. Matthew Spalding [04:20]

• On the Radicalism of Equality:
  “It was radical. It still is a radical concept... but the overwhelming thing that gets them to the point they get to... is Christianity, the biblical Judeo-Christian worldview which saw all men and women... created in the likeness and image of God.”
  — Dr. Matthew Spalding [13:52]

• On Washington’s Example:
  “His character is such that he turned down being made king. He was head of an army... yet he becomes the first president and then he resigns as first president. So there's something remarkable about that particular person.”
  — Dr. Matthew Spalding [38:29]

• On the Role of Providence:
  “In the morning a fog came up, a fog that was so thick that the British ships could not get into the harbor... And it lasted long enough for Washington's army to escape. Now, Washington wrote that was divine Providence. That's a pretty good argument that gives me chills.”
  — Dr. Matthew Spalding [35:25]

• On Teaching the Founding Honestly:
  “There are mistakes. There are all sorts of things... What's amazing about it is... many of whom were flawed, overcame a lot of those flaws to create a great nation and to put a nation dedicated to a set of principles which we always have then tried to live up to as best we can, as fallen individuals.”
  — Dr. Matthew Spalding [40:39]

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Important Timestamps

• [02:58] Tudor Dixon introduces Dr. Matthew Spalding and sets the thematic stage.
• [04:20 - 07:47] The appeal and drama of Revolutionary stories; Spalding connects personal and national patriotism.
• [08:03] The Cesar Rodney story; real-time stakes behind the Declaration vote.
• [10:12] How happenstance propelled Jefferson into history.
• [11:20] War and the Declaration unfolding simultaneously; the Revolution’s uncertainty.
• [13:52] Origins of the “all men are created equal” doctrine and the blending of classical and biblical traditions.
• [20:10 – 23:51] The spectrum of religious belief among the Founders and the formative role of Christianity.
• [26:49] Church debates and their crucial support for breaking from the king.
• [28:57] The symbolism of the national seal and American exceptionalism.
• [35:25] Stories of divine providence, including the Brooklyn Heights escape.
• [38:29] Washington’s humility as the anti-king.
• [40:39] Teaching the full, messy, and inspiring sweep of America’s founding.

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Takeaways

• The American Revolution’s story is far more dramatic and nuanced than commonly taught, full of personal heroism, near-disasters, and profound ideals.
• The founding documents and events were undergirded by both Enlightenment reason and deep Biblical principles—America’s moral and political DNA is unique.
• Teaching these complete stories, flaws and all, is essential for inspiring the next generation and preserving the nation's founding principles.

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Learn More

• Book Mentioned:
  “The Making of the American Mind” by Dr. Matthew Spalding [Amazon, other booksellers]
• Recommended Use:
  Share these stories within families, especially if they are missing from formal education, to spark interest and foster informed patriotism in children.

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End of Content Summary

Transcript

[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

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[Tudor Dixon]

are listening to the Tudor Dixon Podcast. Today we are going to go back in time. We're celebrating America 250 and we thought we should bring an expert with us. So we have Dr. Matthew Spalding. He is the Kirby professor in Constitutional Government and the Dean of the Van Andel Graduate School of Government at Hillsdale College. He's also currently serving as a Senior academic advisor for America 250 and the author of the book the Making of the American the Story of Our Declaration of Independence. Thank you so much for joining me.

[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

Great being with you. Great being with you.

[Tudor Dixon]

So you know that I wanted to hear stories that we don't really talk about much in American history, which I have to say are probably a lot of the stories. Cause I feel like our kids are getting a very watered down version of American history. But your book is it goes through so many like little nuggets that we don't really hear about in the founding and and I want to also just talk about how impressive it is for this group to go, you know what, we came over here, we have this king, we're not going to let him do this. We want to be a free society and how they look toward biblical values for that because I think that's something that gets lost as well. I know that's a lot, but I kind of want to touch on all of that.

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[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

No, look, I completely agree. The I think sometimes we forget a couple of things. One is yes, students aren't studying history as much anymore and that's a great tragedy. But in many ways, more importantly, we forget sometimes, especially as adults, we forget how enticing the great stories are. I mean, the story of the American Revolution is just a dynamic, wonderful, amazing story full of all sorts of things, twists and turns that I think or just make the story so great. I will say my own case, for instance. I was in middle school in 1976 for the bicentennial and that captured my imagination. I mean, wash, this is a great story. And then once you see that, you start learning about it and you Start learning the substance of it. Find stories is a way to get to the human heart. Cause that's really where patriotism starts. You gotta love something, but then you gotta know it, and knowing it makes you love it more. So those are all important. So my book, I actually focus on a lot of particular stories, but also larger stories. And I have to tell you, the broader narrative that I emphasize a lot, which really captures a lot of people by surprise. They don't quite realize this until you explain it to them, is that we think of the Declaration of Independence. It's a piece of legislation passed by a Continental Congress written by Thomas Jefferson. All of which is true and great, but one of the things I emphasize is George Washington had gone to war a year before the Declaration of Independence. He's already at war. He's already forced the British out of Boston. He's up in New York. And it turns out amazing. It turns out that the series of events that are occurring in New York parallel exactly the series of events occurring in the Continental Congress to the point that Washington is reporting that he spied ships leaving Halifax in Nova Scotia. He spotted British ships passing by Boston heading south. He spots ships off of New Jersey heading towards the New York harbor. And on July 2, the same day that the Continental Congress passes Independence, the British are landing troops on Staten Island. And so the confluence of those events, which are dynamic events, I mean, they're literally going to war when they write the Declaration of Independence, is just. Would people realize the stress of that story? And it reminds me of these aren't merely these old fuddy duddies that wore britches and tricorned hats and wigs, which is this kind of Mount Rushmore view we have of them. And you realize, as I always like to say, there are these dynamic figures, and someone like Washington is this amazing action figure. Well, you think about a young person, especially a young boy, who's looking for those kinds of heroic things, and you realize that there is a heroic story, but the heroic story is connected to this very thoughtful, serious, deliberate thing called the Declaration of Independence. It makes these wonderful and beautiful arguments.

[Tudor Dixon]

Well, and I think that once you

[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

put that together, that's a great. A great. A great way of teaching it.

[Tudor Dixon]

And today I think we're used to that piece of legislation being the end. Like, that's okay. It's signed now. This is. Something new has begun. And while something new had begun, there was still a war to be fought.

[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

That's right. You know, we teach. Okay, there's the Declaration, and then Pop There is the Constitution. And we also think of the Declaration as something that kind of like Minerva leaping out of Zeus's head. Griffith just created it on a whim. But when you really get into it, it's actually quite dynamic. One of the things I had mentioned to you before we got going is one of the most interesting stories in many ways is the story of a fellow named Cesar Rodney. Well, so when they're getting approaching the debate on independence, the Continental Congress is divided. Indeed, at one point they have a majority, but it's not unanimous. And they want unanimity. And New York is opposed. Pennsylvania is opposed. South Carolina originally is opposed, but also so is Delaware. Delaware is this little state, and its delegation was split, and so they had no vote. And so they send for Cesar Rodney. Well, Cesar Rodney was back home in Delaware. So he travels overnight in a storm. This is literally on horseback in a storm, the evening of July 1st. And he arrives the morning of July 2nd at the very moment they're voting. And he votes in favor of independents. That flips the Delaware delegation. And overnight, the South Carolina delegation changed their mind. A couple of the delegates from Pennsylvania withdrew. So that changed the majority. And so as a result, there's this unanimous decision for independence. Cesar Rodney, a completely forgotten figure in American history. As a matter of fact, his statue, there's this great, great monumental heroic statue, was torn down during the summer of all the riots where they were tearing down statues, they tore his statue down.

[Tudor Dixon]

What was the reason for that statue to be torn down?

[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

He was involved, as many of them were, in slavery, which was kind of the great mark, if you will, on the American founding, which is something, by the way, that the American founders overcame by saying that all men are created equal. So I think it's wrongly portrayed and overwhelms everything else too often, but it's completely overwhelmed his role in this historic moment. But I'm glad to say this great statue has been taken out of mothballs and is now been replaced on Freedom Plaza right near the White House. So this is a great moment to remember all those stories, because a story like that, you want to know, why did he do that? Why was this important? Who was this person? He goes on to fight in the Revolution. He's a general in the Revolution. And it's just chock full of these stories. Did you know that Jefferson himself was. Was originally not a delegate to the Continental Congress? He was an alternate. It was by sheer chance that another member of the Virginia delegation was pulled away to be a chairman or speaker of the Virginia House. And so they sent in Jefferson at the last moment.

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[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

That he was a good writer. And so he gets pulled in on this committee to write the Declaration.

[Tudor Dixon]

That is wild.

[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

So many times history is uninteresting to a lot of young people, especially because they know what happens. Adults too, right? We know what happened. They won the American Revolution. George Washington was the first president. So why should I study the details? But the details make it a very different story because the American Revolution was a close run thing. It could have gone a different direction. When the British were invading New York at the precise moment they passed the Declaration of Independence, that was the largest naval and land invasion in world history prior to World War II.

[Tudor Dixon]

Wow.

[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

You're telling me that's not a great story. And yet the Americans won. I mean there's just. So how do you use the. This is this year, this great anniversary and we should take a moment. You don't have to learn everything new, you don't have to study everything and all things and get to know all these things in detail. But read some of this history. It really pulls you in how exciting it is. But read it as it unfolds. It was not a done deal. It was full of all sorts of problems, tragedies, mistakes, but great triumphs. And that's what really makes you interested in history. And once you're interested in history, then you ask the other question, which is, well, in the middle of all this strife and conflict, why do they say that we hold these truths to be self evident? Is there something about this that's more important? But at that point you got them, and now we have a serious conversation about that too. Because their world, their intellectual world, was not our world. I mean, today everything is my opinion, your opinion, my values, your values, it's all subjective. But here they said all men are created equal. And that is a truth. And it's self evident, right? Their world, belief in truths, it's a different thing.

[Tudor Dixon]

That specific. They came from a world where everybody. There was a true class system. I mean, it was. There were the wealthy, there were all these different levels of people. So for them to come out and say all men are created equal, that seems, it seems odd. How did they get there? How did the.

[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

It was radical. It was radical. It still is a radical concept in history today. I mean, I think part of it is they were influenced by a lot of things which brought them to this point. And again, it's important to remember these things because we forget these things nowadays. They were clearly interest influenced by the history of British constitutionalism, which meant ultimate legislative rule in the Parliament and this kind of thing. But in my book, two things I emphasize which I think are overwhelmingly important to understand how they got there. One is the classical tradition, the Greeks and the Romans, Cicero. There's a beginnings of an idea of somehow human nature. We all share in this human nature and thus there's a sense of equality. But the overwhelming thing that gets them to the point they get to, which is oftentimes overlooked but we can't de emphasize it, is Christianity, the biblical Judeo Christian worldview which saw all men and women, all races, created in the likeness and image of God. And you can't get to the American notion of all men being created without that and we overlook it. It's not particular actually, it's not even formally Christian per se. But it's this notion that there's a man was created separate from the other animals. Man is unique, man is endowed with certain rights. That's very, very in line with a biblical worldview as well as a classical worldview. And the Declaration seeks to capture both of those things. And that's what makes, I would say, that argument, that grounding, if you will, in the laws of nature and nature's God, as the document says, that's what makes America unique. That's what makes it distinctive, exceptional. And the thing over which that really drives American history is trying to live up to those principles.

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[Tudor Dixon]

know that the founders were Christians? Were they. I mean, you talk about biblical values. Is this something that they culturally knew? Or do we know that they. That do we know details about whether or not they were actually reading Bibles and into the word?

[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

Yeah, yeah. No. Also a great question. I think two things. Well, a couple of things. We know the Declaration isn't specifically Christian or biblical formally in any way. It's clearly also not deistic, which says it's not kind of modern rationalism. I think that's a misnomer and a criticism of the founder, which is incorrect. A few of them were. Benjamin Franklin was kind of odd. His opinions. Thomas Jefferson was odd when it came to the biblical points. He didn't believe in the miracles of the Bible, for instance, he thought was

[Tudor Dixon]

he the one that cut certain sections out.

[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

Cut certain sections out of the Bible. But beyond that, it's amazing how powerfully the signers of the Declaration represent a wide a swath of mainstream Christianity, many of which were quite conservative. The chaplain was Witherspoon, a Presbyterian from Scottish Presbyterian, very serious guy. John Hancock, the president of the Continental Congress was a serious Congregationalist. So you get this whole range of things. So I think broadly speaking, they were mainstream Christian, if not more conservative Christian than we are in many ways today. But what they weren't and they were very familiar. The Bible as a piece of literature at the very least, but also as a piece of divine revelation. Because the most influential pamphlets at the time of the founding, which we know by historical measurement, were sermons published and distributed. And they were extremely influential. So they clearly had this worldview which had shaped them. That's different from saying that the Declaration or the Constitution is formally Christian or Congregationalist or Presbyterian in particular. They're not that they're trying to avoid the religious wars of England where people are killing each other. But there's clearly a theological grounding which I think we've lost and forgotten today, to be recaptured.

[Tudor Dixon]

When you talk about the religious wars, I mean these are Christian versus Christian.

[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

That's right. There are Protestant versus Catholic at one point, but then increasingly they were within different Protestant dominations and they're disagreeing over doctrinal issues. And so they did want to avoid that, but they wanted to keep the moral grounding, the mooring, if you will, of a strong theological base, which is why you see in the declaration that all men are created equal, they're endowed by their Creator. That creator turns out to be the supreme judge of the world and divine providence. So it's in broad biblical, you know, it's in that broad language, but it's not specific.

[Tudor Dixon]

The reason I ask that is because I think so often today we try to put historical events into current day. So we'll hear people say, well, they weren't actually Christians. They didn't necessarily believe in that. They may have lived by this, but it would have been actually that their history and their values were probably all kind of dictated by Christian values, like they had grown up. Whether there was dispute over doctrine and that it was really that Christian background, it wasn't controversial at that point to be Christian. There were different factions of Christianity that may have been controversial, but it wasn't a question as to whether or not God was leading your decision making.

[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

No, that's right. So I would say one thing. First of all, we human beings naturally have this tendency to look back and try to see what we want to see, and that's almost always a mistake. But having said that, if you look and see what's actually there, there's so much more there in politics, meaning the Declaration, the Constitution, the particulars. They want to avoid certain specifics because those specifics historically lead to other problems and they wanted to not have that happen. But underneath that, it's very powerful. Their world is shaped by an understanding of virtues and vices and of goods and moral goods and a substantive view of happiness. And all of that is clearly understood and shaped by, fundamentally shaped by Christianity, Biblical Christianity. But also, I wouldn't remove the classical tradition, which, as we know, the cardinal virtues of the classical world in the Christian world, even though the Christian world elevates the object, are the same. So you can look at it different ways. They clearly had a very firm understanding of the moral grounding of political life. So, so today, sometimes we over, since they weren't specific, which I think was the right decision because that's how you preserve religious liberty. But since they weren't specific, we assumed that they were like us moderns. There was no there there. And I think that's just historically inaccurate. I mean, so for instance, we talk a lot about the influence of John Locke, who was an English modern writer, time of the glorious Revolution, who was very important. Most of the references To John Locke. He writes about consent and legislatures and rights and those kinds of things. But most of the references to Locke are found in sermons, which is say that the sermon is an important vehicle through which a lot of these things come. The influence of the Great Awakening, which is decades before the founding, shaped the undergird of all this.

[Tudor Dixon]

And the sharing of these stories and sharing of these concepts is really happening in the church. And it's kind of going through the church because you have to today, you have to look back at that and say, I mean, these people had all known the king. That had been their life. So to say, we're going to be a free people and we're not going to have somebody ruling us, it's going to be us. I mean, this is a radical concept. No one's doing this. And to think that you could actually pull it off had to have been pretty shocking to people.

[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

So here's a particular example. So there's a famous letter that John Adams writes where he talks about the real American Revolution as opposed to that war we fought. He said the real revolution had to do with how people, long before the American Revolution, changed their opinions on important questions. He talked about their attachment to the king, how they thought about England. But the particular thing he draws out is a specifically biblical question, which was, are we morally required to merely submit to our ruler by the Bible, or is there room in the Bible to, yes, we should generally support those who are ruling, but there's a limit if that ruler is a tyrant. And there's actually a healthy, long, serious debate in the American church, published and written about in the sermons, where they come to the position that, no, if the king becomes a tyrant, we are no longer obligated by the Bible to obey him. And Adam's point, and I think this is just patently true, is that had that not happened, it's not that the sermons caused the American Revolution, but that underflow, if you will, that current was absolutely necessary for the success of the American Revolution because they essentially said that the preachers of the day gave important support and endorsement, if you will, to this movement. So you can't remove that part of the history from the actual political history of the American Revolution.

[Tudor Dixon]

Well, and clearly this was a group of people that were saying, ultimately, we answer to God. If somebody gets out of line with what we think God wants for people, we're going to answer to God and not to some earthly ruler. Which is interesting. There's an interesting story that you have in the book about the national seal, which Also indicates that God is leading, not anyone else.

[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

Yeah, there's a very powerful sense of the role of God, or in the Declaration it's referred to as divine providence, which was always understood to be essentially a replacement, understood as to be God. There's a very strong sense of that. And they had this sense. And the seal you referred to was proposed by Franklin, Adams and Jefferson was that, well, how about the analogy of Moses leading the Jews to a new promised land? And this sense of America is a new promised land. So there's this very strong sense. That's what I meant by a theology, a theo God. But again, it's not specific, it's not below that. Right. The idea is that, well, God created man, but he created man to think. And so he can think about how to structure government and how to write a constitution and how to do these other things. But there's this hierarchy, if you will, which is there's something higher than man. And we should always remember that. And it's not a requirement that everyone believes that necessarily. But the Declaration clearly establishes that there is something higher and that we are not gods and government is not God. At the very least, that seems to be very much the case, which leaves open the possibility that there is this broader understanding of nature, nature's God, divine providence, all of these things. So I think there's a very healthy theology there that we can work with which does exactly what they intended to do, which is it's not government dictating religion. It's not religion necessarily writing the laws of government, but it's a government that's limited, understands its limits, and thus creates a world in which churches of different denominations, which, with full doctrinal understanding of a church, can flourish because ultimately that's who shapes our character and our minds and our souls. But government, at the very least in the Declaration you see, is a certain hat tip that, yeah, there is this divine order of things. Men are created equal, they're endowed by their Creator. And so there's something above and beyond government and beyond us that we need to respect.

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[Tudor Dixon]

to look at this and say, only God could do this. I mean, when you look at how radical this was and you look at the number of troops that that the British brought in and what the weapons that the Americans had, I mean there

[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

are many, many points at which Providence was understood. I mean, look why it's interesting Declan is talking about Providence is Providence implies that God is merely, not just a watchmaker who winds us up and leaves us alone. Providence suggests that God sometimes intervenes in the affairs of man, and there are all sorts of examples in letters where they understood Providence to play a role. So for instance, after the Battle of Long island, when the Americans are about to be overwhelmed and literally on the verge of being destroyed by the British, they backed up to Brooklyn Heights. They're going to be demolished by the English army. Washington finally decides the last moment we're going to evacuate. To evacuate, they had to cross the east river and get to Manhattan and escape. Well, all they had was these little boats. And so all night they had to shuffle back and forth getting their people across the river. And in the morning they weren't done yet. But in the morning a fog came up, a fog that was so thick that the British ships could not get into the harbor. They could not threaten Washington's army. They couldn't even see Washington's army. And it lasted long enough for Washington's army to escape. Now, Washington wrote that was divine Providence. That's a pretty good argument that gives me chills. But they clearly thought that God sometime intervened for just causes, and that was an important aspect of it. So again, I think too long we've overlooked the fact that there's a theological argument. The Declaration, it's not complete. This is not a religious doctrine of faith. This is not specific. But there's a deep theology of the Declaration that points all of us of different faiths, different faith traditions, to the existence of a divine order under which we as human beings try to live our lives in politics, in this world. And I think that's a great. A wonderful thing for us to remember at this time of the 2050th anniversary of the American Revolution.

[Tudor Dixon]

Yeah. Actually, the characters that are chosen, I mean, you have to. Like Donald Trump today would say this is central casting. God chose central casting for this. Right. You know, here's God going, okay, Washington is good. That's a good one here. Jefferson will be. We'll put him instead. I mean, it is kind of fascinating to see how this all comes together. But I think that the Washington story is especially interesting because a lot of times you think of people who are in these positions as getting a big head. I mean, that's kind of a watered down version of how do you keep someone like that from wanting to become a king? And ultimately, even though they had gone through all of this and they had written the Declaration of Independence and they had all of this at the end of the war, they were still kind of like, so now you're our king. Right. And then he's like, no, we're not going to do the king thing.

[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

So in general, you're pointing about the cast of characters. It is rather amazing. But it's not that we love that cast of characters because they fit the part. It's more that they were great because they fit the part and what they were doing. And it just so happens that the best arise to the occasion. But Washington is a very special case. His character is such that he turned down being made king. He was head of an army, and he knew that heads of army tend to be problematic in history, shall we say? Think of Napoleon, and yet he becomes the first president and then he resigns as first president. So there's something remarkable about that particular person. And I think that his understanding of the principles of the Revolution, including this principle about a theology, if you will, of the Declaration, the revolution, and the importance of that shaped him. And it gave him a very moderate sense of what he was doing because there's something greater than him. And that goes to all of us. Right. We teach our children this. We teach. I mean, what's the most important thing to know? There's something greater than you and you should learn something about that.

[Tudor Dixon]

And I think that is, to me, honestly, I think that's the most important thing to teach our children, because that ultimately is what I believe allows your child to have compassion, allows your child to work for the Lord and put the Lord first above all else. And when you put the Lord first, then you as a person are putting other people first. You're looking at those 10 Commandments and saying, how. How do I. How am I? How can I be more like Jesus? And it. And as you follow this story, you go, oh, okay, I can. I can see a lot of what I read in the Bible in this story of the American founding, which I think is so cool, because oftentimes we think that biblical stories are limited to the Bible, and yet we see them every day in our life. And that's God working.

[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

And as with good biblical stories, right. I mean, there's imperfection, there's mistakes, there's fallen characters, and then there's characters that kind of turn around and change things and live up to those principles. I think one of the great aspects of the story of the American Revolution, it's not that I don't want to whitewash history. There are mistakes. There are all sorts of things. I mean, we mentioned earlier the existence of slavery. These are all facts of our history. What's amazing about it is, is that these group of individuals, many of whom were flawed, overcame a lot of those flaws to create a great nation and to put a nation dedicated to a set of principles which we always have then tried to live up to as best we can, as fallen individuals. So I think there's just something quite amazing about it that is very much something that we can honestly teach our children across the board, warts and all, because we see in it a great human story. And the greatest human stories, as C.S. lewis once famously said, the greatest human stories, sometimes, even though they're only human stories, surprise us because they force us to transcend ourselves, and they even point towards the eternal. And I think the American Revolution is a great example. Example of that.

[Tudor Dixon]

I agree, and that's why I wanted to have this conversation. I think this year in particular is so important, not just because it's the 250th, but also because I think our schools oftentimes are getting away from the story. We're getting away from teaching history. We know there are reasons. We're testing for English. We're testing for math. History has sort of fallen by the wayside. And it's so critical that if your child isn't getting this story at school that you bring this story to them. That's why your book is so critical as well. That's why I think everybody should go out and get it. It's the making of the American Mind. Tell us a little bit about where they can get it, how you decided to do this.

[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

Well, it's on Amazon. It's doing well and is readily available. So I encourage everyone to take a look at it. But I wanted to write a book. I started writing it last year. I wanted to write a book that would be available at this moment because this is a teaching moment. You know, people will are going to naturally want to learn. I should learn something about or go back and read a book or do something. And I wanted to make sure there was at least one good book out there. I'm not the only one, but I wanted to make sure there was a good book that I taught the story, told the story the way I think it needs to be told and tried to capture as best I could. So I think that was my objective. That's what I set out to do and that's what I was supposed to do. And I'm very happy with how it

[Tudor Dixon]

came out, I'll tell you that. Our trip, we go on an 8th grade trip every year, our school does, and we go all through Washington D.C. we stop at Mount Vernon and we stop at Gettysburg. And those two stops, it is always the boys in the class who go, wow, this is, it's like this moment. You can see it in their eyes. And when you ask them afterward, they go, Gettysburg was amazing. You could see them because they're going, these kids were a little older than us, some of them were our age who went out into this field and fought so that we can have this amazing country that we have today. So that is why this is so important. Please check it out. The Making of the American Mind. Go get the book, share it with your family. Give it as gifts for fourth of July. This is the Independence Day of Independence Day. So let's celebrate America 250 and Dr. Matthew Spalding, thank you so much for sharing this with us.

[Dr. Matthew Spalding]

Great conversation, good being with you.

[Tudor Dixon]

It was good to have you. And thank you all for listening to the Tutor Dixon podcast. Another one great one to share. You can get at the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Rumble or YouTube. Share it with your friends and celebrate our country's birthday. Have a blessed day. Thank you.

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