The Tudor Dixon Podcast:The Fallout of the Russia Hoax with Lee Smith

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Tudor Dixon Podcast – "The Fallout of the Russia Hoax with Lee Smith"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
• Episode: The Tudor Dixon Podcast – "The Fallout of the Russia Hoax with Lee Smith"
• Release Date: July 28, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Tudor Dixon Podcast, host Tudor Dixon engages in a profound discussion with Lee Smith, a seasoned journalist and New York Times best-selling author with over three decades of experience in the media industry. The conversation centers around the controversial Russia investigation, often referred to as "Russiagate," and its implications on American politics, media integrity, and the quest for justice.

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Background of the Russia Investigation

[02:48] Tudor Dixon: "Welcome to the Tudor Dixon Podcast. I'm sure you have all seen what's going on with the Russia, Russia, Russia investigation. And now Donald Trump has come out, said that essentially he's accusing Obama of treason."

Lee Smith provides a foundational understanding of the Russia investigation, highlighting its prolonged impact on President Trump's administration and the broader political landscape.

[03:36] Lee Smith: "The Mueller investigation took up nearly two years of his term. The Republicans lost, lost the midterms, the 2018 midterms because of the Russia investigation, because of all the noise about Russia."

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Key Discussions

1. The Two Phases of Russiagate

Smith delineates Russiagate into two distinct phases: pre-election activities and post-election maneuvers.

• Pre-Election Phase: Initiated by the Hillary Clinton campaign, funneling anti-Trump narratives into mainstream media.

  [07:02] Lee Smith: "The first part is the pre-election part, where, as you say, this is the Hillary Clinton campaign funneling the Russia garbage into the media."

• Post-Election Phase: Under President Obama’s administration, intensified efforts to delegitimize Trump's presidency.

  [07:02] Lee Smith: "The post-election aspect of Russiagate when Barack Obama took control... Barack Obama went to his intelligence community leaders... and I want Trump smeared as a Russian agent."

2. Accountability and Legal Implications

The discussion shifts to potential legal repercussions for former officials involved in the investigation.

• John Brennan and Intelligence Officials:

  [04:29] Lee Smith: "We're seeing very solid reporting by John Solomon, among others, saying that the FBI and DOJ have opened up a very large criminal conspiracy case regarding the weaponization of the federal government."

• Potential Legal Actions:

  [15:06] Tudor Dixon: "You say that you have evidence against John Brennan, but there is, there's got to be someone."

  [17:34] Lee Smith: "They need to be held accountable as well. Right?"

3. Media’s Role in the Investigation

Smith asserts that mainstream media, particularly CNN, played an active role in the intelligence operation against President Trump.

[17:44] Lee Smith: "The media must also be held accountable as well. Right? This is not the media that, that we may remember from our earlier years. They were the platform for an intelligence operation."

4. The Impact on American Politics and Public Trust

The conversation delves into how Russiagate affected public perception and the political dynamics leading up to the 2024 election.

[12:30] Tudor Dixon: "He has all the information. He's been working on this for years. This is not something he needs to catch up on."

[14:30] Tudor Dixon: "Mar A Lago, the attack against the president, the multiple assassination attempts, the lawfare, all of it is pretty disgusting."

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Insights and Analysis

• Strategic Obstruction: Smith emphasizes that the primary goal of Russiagate was to obstruct President Trump from implementing his agenda, affecting not just him but the broader Republican agenda.

  [04:44] Lee Smith: "The purpose of Russiagate was to obstruct President Trump from implementing his agenda. So we're talking about justice here..."

• Justice for Trump and Supporters: The investigation aimed to deliver justice not only to Trump and his aides but also to his voter base who supported his policies.

  [06:15] Lee Smith: "These are the people that I think that are, you know, you're talking about the deferent intelligence officials, officials like Brennan and Comey and some of the top FBI people who are involved."

• Statute of Limitations: The timeframe from 2016 to 2024 is pivotal, ensuring that legal actions remain within prosecutable periods.

  [10:18] Lee Smith: "We're seeing very solid reporting... the statute of limitations have not expired."

• Media as an Intelligence Tool: The collaboration between media outlets and intelligence operations signifies a deeper manipulation within the information ecosystem.

  [19:16] Lee Smith: "Media collapse. The media was part of an intelligence operation targeting the President of the United States."

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Notable Quotes

• Lee Smith on Document Revelations:

  [03:36] "The documents that are coming out are shedding more light on the different things that we've been talking about for, for some time now."

• On Accountability:

  [15:06] "Barack Obama is popping his head up all the time with everything. He popped his head up with COVID Right. He's encouraging US Mayors to keep their cities closed, the purpose of which was to destroy Trump's economy."

• On Media's Role:

  [17:44] "This is not the media that, that we may remember from our, from our earlier years. They were the platform for an intelligence operation."

• On Justice and Future Implications:

  [16:30] "President Trump has the right people in place. While we're demanding accountability, there are the right people in place to see that that happens."

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Conclusions

The episode underscores the enduring ramifications of the Russiagate investigation on American political integrity and media independence. Lee Smith advocates for a thorough examination and accountability of all parties involved, including high-ranking officials and media outlets. The discussion reflects a broader concern about the manipulation of democratic processes and the importance of ensuring justice and transparency in governmental operations.

Smith remains cautiously optimistic about the pursuit of justice, suggesting that the declassification of documents and the ongoing investigations may finally address the long-standing grievances related to Russiagate.

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Final Thoughts

For listeners seeking to understand the intricate web of politics, media influence, and legal battles surrounding the Russia investigation, this episode offers a comprehensive and critical perspective. Lee Smith's extensive experience and detailed analysis provide valuable insights into one of the most contentious political investigations in recent American history.

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Listen to the full episode on iHeartRadio or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

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[Tudor Dixon]

Oh hey.

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[Tudor Dixon]

Welcome to the Tudor Dixon Podcast. I'm sure you have all seen what's going on with Russia, Russia, Russia investigation. And now Donald Trump has come out, said that essentially he's accusing Obama of treason. So we figured we would go to the man with all of the history, all of the research, and that is Lee Smith. He is a longtime journalist and New York Times best selling author with over 30 years of experience working in the media business. So Mr. Smith, welcome to the podcast.

[Lee Smith]

Thank you so much, Duder, for inviting me on today. It's a pleasure to be with you and your great audience.

[Tudor Dixon]

Absolutely. So you've been following the Russia hoax for a very long time. You've written numerous books. The plot against the president is one of them. So what is your take on what's happening today?

[Lee Smith]

Well, I think it's terrific. It's very exciting because the documents that are coming out are shedding more light on the different things that we've been talking about for, for some time now. But again, finding the documents and be able to put, being able to really focus people's attention on stuff that's, that's come out from the government of the because it's one thing for, for a reporter to, I mean, I've written three books on, on this now. It's, but you know, it's one thing for reporter to write about and it's another thing for people to see, you know, the director of National Intelligence saying, yes, this is exactly what happened. And you know, I, I'm, I try to encourage people to be optimistic. I know that there's some skepticism that anything will really happen because we've been waiting for justice for quite some time. But I'm, I'm, I'm certainly optim guarded but optimistic nonetheless.

[Tudor Dixon]

Well, I think that's what a lot of certainly Republicans want. We feel like what happened to him was out. I feel like he lost the majority of his first term because of this.

[Lee Smith]

Yes.

[Tudor Dixon]

And we were told the whole time we were silly for thinking that.

[Lee Smith]

Well, no, I mean, you know, the Mueller investigation took up nearly two years of his term. The, the Republicans lost, lost the midterms, the 2018 midterms because of the Russia investigation, because of all the noise about Russia. I believe there's been polling on that to show that is the case. So. Yes, of course. But you know, so it's certainly justice for the President as well, as well as the president's family, if you look at the different things they were put through. And it's also justice for the different Trump aides from Michael Flynn, Roger Stone, Michael Caputo, a whole bunch of different people, but also certainly for the people that voted for the president in that first term, when they voted for his policies, to see his policies implemented in entire play. The purpose of Russiagate was to obstruct President Trump from implementing his agenda. So we're talking about justice here, not just for the president, not just his administration, but, but for the American public as a whole. Even people who didn't vote for Donald Trump should certainly want our constitutional republic to work in such a way so that when people vote for something, they actually get a chance to see that happen, not that it's obstructed and blocked by intelligence services and law enforcement authorities. So, yes, again, this is why we want justice. And again, there's, there's, there's reason to be optimistic that we will get justice at last.

[Tudor Dixon]

So the narrative started before the election, and I think that the Democrats have always felt that they controlled the media. It, I mean, even when you look back at the, the visuals. Right. Well, exactly. And, and I think that by doing that, they've believed that by controlling the media, they control the American people's minds and histor. I think that was correct, But I think 2016 was that moment where they went, oh, my. I mean, you could see it in their faces on election night. You could see them going, how did this happen? We told them to vote for Hillary and they started this narrative before the election, obviously, that Donald Trump was the Russian agent and it didn't work out for them. How panicked did they become when they, they went, oh, my gosh, he's actually going to be president. He's actually going to have access. How much did they ramp it up at that point?

[Lee Smith]

Well, I mean, you know what happened? I think it's important to break Russiagate down into two different parts. The first part is the pre election part, where, as you say, this is the Hillary Clinton campaign funneling the Russia garbage into the media. And we see different eruptions of this in every possible liberal publication that still exists. But they did something very bad pre election, and that was that the FBI used this, you know, used this nonsense as the predicate for a warrant to spy on the Trump campaign. That was a very, very bad thing that was unlawful. After the election, it turns into something else. That's when, and this is what Donald Trump is referring to. This is what others are referring to. And this is what these documents are about. They're about the post election aspect of Russiagate when Barack Obama took control. And that's what these documents that DNI Tulsi Gabb showed and has been talking about. That's what this represents, the post election aspect of Russiagate. And it's very much the case that Barack Obama did take control, that Barack Obama went to his intelligence community leaders, John Brennan in particular, and said, here's what I want. I want Trump smeared as a Russian agent and I want this done and I want it on my desk before I leave office January 20th. And that's precisely what happened. Again, these were different that we knew and understood. I mean, it's starting right at the beginning. We knew that Barack Obama was doing this. Everything that he was doing after the election regarding Trump was purpose to delegitimize Donald Trump's presidency. Right. But now, again, these documents shed more light on this. So it's not just journalist Lee Smith talking about this. There are actual, you know, again, official government records showing what happened.

[Tudor Dixon]

Is treason too strong of a word?

[Lee Smith]

I mean, you know, I'm not a lawyer, and frankly, I mean, I think that's, I really can't say. I think that we throw around the word like treason an awful lot. I mean, I don't know. There were laws broken here that I do know. And I can point to different places where we can see evidence of that. I'm not sure. And again, I'm not a lawyer, so I'm saying I'm not sure that if in the documents that DNI declassified, there's evidence of criminal activity with what Barack Obama did, what there is evidence of, and this is very important, is that Barack Obama took control of Russiagate that we know. Was that in itself illegal or. Yeah, was that, was that in itself criminal? I don't know. There are different things, though, that CIA Director John Brennan did that I can point to that are, that are definitely look to be looked to be illegal. And remember what's going on here while this is happening, while some of these documents are being declassified and being released, we're seeing very solid reporting by John Solomon, among others, saying that the FBI and DOJ have opened up a very large criminal conspiracy case regarding the weaponization of the federal government. And this conspiracy goes from 2016-20. So that's one reason, again, why people should be optimistic. Insofar as we've been concerned about statute of limitations going from 2016 to 2024, that's a long period of time. And it means that we're safely. That the statute of limitations have not expired. So obviously, DOJ is finding criminal activity there. Remember, the new CIA Director, John Radcliffe, referred John Brennan to a criminal investor for a criminal investigation, to FBI Director Cash Patel. So again, there are, there, there, there's plenty of evidence of crimes. Whether what, whether what the 44th American president did, whether there's evidence of that or not, we'll see.

[Tudor Dixon]

You say that you have evidence against John Brennan, but there is, there's got to be someone.

[Lee Smith]

Yeah, I mean, what it, what, it's clear what happened. I mean, the, you know, with these reports about the intell community assessment, which is what Obama ordered Brennan to finish. I mean, this is one of the things, this is one of the things that these documents are about. And also, I should add that this. In 2019, Devin Nunes, when he was chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, he made eight criminal referrals to the Department of Justice. His lead investigator at the time was Cash Patel, who's now the Director of the FBI. One of these referrals was about tampering with intelligence. Right. And that appears to refer to the intelligence community assessment, what Barack Obama ordered John Brennan to have done by the time he left office. So if, if then, Chairman Nunes and his lead investigator, Cash Patel, found criminal activity there, then, then that's certainly something they'll be looking at now. And again, remember what Cash Patel is doing now. He's the FBI director, so I imagine that's one of the things they'll be looking at closely.

[Tudor Dixon]

So he has all the information. He's been working on this for years. This is not something he needs to catch up on. I think that's something important for the American people to understand. He's walking in with a wealth of knowledge on this already. And I think that when you, you hear in the mainstream media, they're like, oh, this is a distraction. This is crazy. This is insane. But they really did fight to make sure that they were going to win the 2024 election. I, I mean, when you look at all of the lawfare and everything they did to Trump, they wanted to make sure Trump was into office. I think they wanted to make sure any Republican, but specifically Trump, I mean.

[Lee Smith]

We have to look at everything that happened starting in 2023 regarding Donald Trump in 2023. Let's start with 2020. Let's start with 2020, the 2020 election. And, you know, we'll, we'll leave aside right now the question of the the probity of that election, but certainly everything that happened. I mean, you know, Trump was banned from social media. There was. They, they raided his home at Mar A Lago, an enormous campaign of lawfare designed to, you know, impover him. And he got through all of these things and he survived. He survived getting shot in the head. Right? So, no, no one, the, the Democrats certainly did not expect that Donald Trump was going to be president again in 2024. And, you know, remember, they've done their. They've done their very best to block. To block. Not just, not just that anyone would be held accountable for this, but that anyone would ever know anything about this. Right? Look at all the people that they attacked during Trump term. Look at the different. Look at the different hurdles they set up for President Trump. So we're looking at something very different now in 2024, President Trump has the right people in place. While we're demanding accountability, there are the right people in place to see that that happens. So, no, they didn't expect that they would ever have to pay a price for this. And now it appears that that may happen.

[Tudor Dixon]

But when you look back at it like that, I mean, that is severe desperation. All of the things, you know, sometimes you forget. But when you lay it all out, Mar A Lago, the attack against the president, the multiple assassination attempts, the lawfare, all of it is pretty disgusting. There has to be some level that Obama knew that he was going to be in big trouble if this was found out. And I do think that there's a challenge in ever going after a president. And there's also a moral question about going after a past president, because then when does it end? And I think that's my concern. That's a lot of people's concern, that if you do that, you never get away from doing that.

[Lee Smith]

And.

[Tudor Dixon]

But I just want to go back to when President Trump was going through this. A lot of people around him were accused of crimes, sent to prison, had to pay their life savings to try to get out of this with, with court cases. When you. That if you look back and you say this was all manufactured, don't some of those people have to go to jail?

[Lee Smith]

Well, I. Certain, I. Yes, absolutely. I mean, and those are the people that I think that are, you know, you're talking about the deferent intelligence officials, officials like Brennan and Comey and some of the top FBI people who are involved. Yes, certainly. Right. I mean, so, you know, I mean, Barack Obama is the former President of the United States. I tend to find it Unlikely, though. Again, I've been writing for many years about how Barack Obama clearly or obviously was. Was the head of this operation, as well as many others. I mean, we have to remember Barack Obama is popping his head up all the time with everything. He popped his head up with COVID Right. He's encouraging US Mayors to keep their cities closed, the purpose of which was to destroy Trump's economy. Then he's out there shilling for all of the different new election processes which were designed to facilitate voter fraud, which is what we saw in 2020. So Barack Obama is all over this from 2016 at least through 2020 again. But the idea that Barack Obama is going to be charged, I don't know. But certainly, yes, up and down the line, the top FBI officials, because it's mostly the FBI and doj, the top officials there, they absolutely have to be held accountable. And I hope that the people you're referring to, people like Michael Flynn, like Roger Stone, Michael Caputo, I hope all of these people bring enormous civil suits against the Department of Justice, against the FBI, and against the individuals responsible for this. I think that this is. Oh, it's part of our legal system. These people were wronged. Some of them were bankrupted. Some of were deeply hurt. I mean, what they did to Roger Stone, I mean, they sent a SWAT team at his house.

[Tudor Dixon]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I mean, when you bring these things up, you forget about them. His wife is an older woman, and there she is with a SWAT team around her bed.

[Lee Smith]

Yeah. I mean, you know, very sick people who did this. And of course, we have to keep in mind, we have to remember the media that was a part of this. In that particular case, it was cnn. So these are very sick and disgusting people, and they need to be held accountable as well.

[Tudor Dixon]

You say that the media, they were there. I mean, I want to point that out. You're talking about cnn. They were somehow outside. So this was clearly coordinated.

[Lee Smith]

Well, this is something that. That I think is very important to understand. A lot of conservatives, Republicans, even Trump supporters, I don't think they. They've really dealt with a full scope of what the media is at this point. You know, there are a lot of people, and there still are. You can turn on different, you know, conservative networks, read different conservative writers, and talk about the bias media, the liberal media, the left. Okay. I mean, you're talking about, you know, that's. That's what we saw in the 70s and 80s and the 60s, whatever. We're seeing something very different now. What happened during Russiagate was the media collapse. The media was part of an intelligence operation targeting the President of the United States. It's not that they're biased. Right. They were part of an intelligence operation. So let's, let's, let's call it for exactly what it, what, what happened. Right. And that's why CNN was on the spot. Right? It wasn't a tip that, that some savvy reporter, that some savvy reporter won somehow. Right. They were part of the operation. And that's what we saw all throughout Russiagate. So while we're talking about holding political figures like the, like Barack Obama and intelligence officials like John Brennan accountable, the media must also, the people who are playing the role of the media must also be held accountable. Right? I, I, I don't, and, and that starts at the very least with recognizing who they are are Right. This is not the media that, that we may remember from our, from our earlier years. They were the platform for an intelligence operation.

[Tudor Dixon]

Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tudor Dixon Podcast.

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[Tudor Dixon]

Oh, hey.

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Hey. Thanks for meeting me here on such short notice. This place isn't bugged, is it?

[Lee Smith]

Bugged?

[Travis Holloway]

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[Lee Smith]

Back to you on that.

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Yeah, I do now.

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Listen, I don't want to get in your business, but if that's all she paid for it, I'll have what she's having.

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[Tudor Dixon]

The American people have historically trusted the media, but we've recently seen, I mean, even this, even. Imagine watching Stephen Colbert get canceled and have these indignant reporters come out and say, how can this be? Is there a political reason behind this? Because it's almost like they have been a part of this club and they're like, somebody doesn't get kicked out of the club. And we are seeing it totally differently than what it potentially actually is with the intelligence agency working with them.

[Lee Smith]

How anyone could defend Stephen Colbert and Jon Stewart, two of the unfunniest people. I mean, two of the squarest people in the world. Can you imagine how square you have to be to. To watch Stephen Colbert? I mean, give me a break. I mean, play a game of solitaire that, you know, play a game of solitaire. That's hipper than watching Stephen Colbert. Oh, I watched Stephen Colbert. Wow, what a cool daddy. Oh, you must be. That's really funny. Stephen Colbert. Oh, Jon Stewart. You know, what a bunch of just, it's just disgusting. So for me, that doesn't even have anything to do with media or, you know, or, or the, or the intelligence operations they've been running. Like, where do you get off watching Stephen Colbert, please?

[Tudor Dixon]

But that, that is the American public that you're fighting against, the people who are desperately seeking.

[Lee Smith]

I don't, I don't think that's the American public. I think that's a bunch of square balls in New York and LA and elsewhere who think that somehow that, that, that, that, that marks the zenith of American culture and comedy. I mean, for Pete's sake, you know.

[Tudor Dixon]

Yes, yes, I agree. So I will just end on this. I want to ask you one more thing. You talked about civil suits. We've said Barack Obama is potentially protected as a past president from any criminal liability. I think that's going to be hard to pin on him because I do think that he'll come up with executive privilege and all of that, but he has become extraordinarily wealthy since he was president. You talked about many people in the Trump administration that it cost them a lot of money. Is there a potential civil suit or multiple civil suits against the Obamas?

[Lee Smith]

I don't know that that's very interesting, you know, but that, I mean, again, I don't want to hit on this too much, but again, it just sort of brings and this melding of entertainment and media and news and stuff like that, and it's just like, I mean, for Pete's sake, again, like Obama with a Netflix contract. I mean, it's just awful. It's just awful. What, What? Again, on one hand, we have the media that's become part of this intelligence operation. The other hand, the entertainment media. I mean, just pathetic and sick, unfunny and dumb. So who's so dumb that they give a Netflix contract to Barack Obama? Again, one of the square skies that America's produced, and you think that guy's going to put out good movies.

[Tudor Dixon]

There's a lot of power in that kind of stuff, though. There's a lot of power to manipulate minds and change people.

[Lee Smith]

It's a power because the people who are watching that and the people who like it are dumb and square. That's why. Right. Same with Stephen. I mean, you know, look, at some point, at some point, we're going to have a little better sense of how much money all these things made. And we look at the Stephen Colbert numbers, and guess what? As it turns out, he didn't make money at all. Right? He. He's not just unfunny big loser. Right?

[Unknown Host]

Right.

[Tudor Dixon]

And that's where we get to. People don't have civics lessons, they don't have economics lessons, they don't understand capitalism. There are some things that Trump politics, and that's. If a network can't make money, they're going to get rid of someone.

[Lee Smith]

Look, I mean, another thing is that Donald Trump is funnier than Colbert and Jon Stewart and all of these guys. I mean, you know, Donald Trump, of course, though, he Belongs to a different age. You know, I mean, we're talking more like the, more like the Dean Martin ro, something like that. Now, that was funny television. Not, you know, not, not Colbert and, and Jon Stewart, anyway, looked, I mean, yes, Barack Obama is a lot of money. If, if the Americans who were wronged by, by this operation that Obama clearly led, if they can get some money from Barack Obama, that would be fantastic. But again, I, I, I, I'm not a lawyer. I, I just don't know. I, I don't know how that would happen. I does, though.

[Tudor Dixon]

No, I think that's, I think that should be. When you hit people in the pocketbook, then they start paying attention and stop doing what they're doing, and they're less likely to do that. I mean, the, even the Bidens, I see he's getting a $10 million advance on his book. And you know what that means his estate, when he's gone in a few years, will have a lot of money in it. Before I let you go, you have a new book. It's called Disappearing the President. Where can people get it?

[Lee Smith]

Well, the Encounter books, I believe that right now they have, they have a 25% discount sale, so I can't, I'm afraid that I can't remember exactly what the code is. But if you go to encounterbooks.com you can find it there. I'm also posting it on my Twitter feed, Lee@leeSmithDC, and then my Truth Social feed at Lee Smith. But of course, you can also find all of my books at places like Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and I, I even know that some Barnes and Noble, some brick and mortar Barnes and Noble stores are selling, disappearing, the prices.

[Tudor Dixon]

Good, good. Well, this is the time to make sure you know the whole story so that you can be intelligent as you're listening to all these people on these crazy networks try to manipulate you.

[Lee Smith]

That's right.

[Tudor Dixon]

Well, thank you so much, Lee Smith. Thank you so much for being here today.

[Lee Smith]

Thank you so much for bringing me on to it. I really appreciate it.

[Tudor Dixon]

Absolutely. And thank you all for joining the podcast. Make sure you go to iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, and, and you can watch the full video on Rumble Uterdixon. Have a blessed day.

[Rodney Williams]

I'm Rodney Williams.

[Travis Holloway]

And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the wealthbreak podcast, a real conversation about finance.

[Rodney Williams]

Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone.

[Unknown Host]

I feel like sometimes being broke is.

[Tudor Dixon]

A cycle and that we might have.

[Travis Holloway]

To revisit that and we're not stopping at success stories.

[Lisa Booth]

What happens when it doesn't go right?

[Unknown Host]

How do you cope with with it?

[Rodney Williams]

Because wealth isn't just about money. It's about creating a life where you thrive and help others do the same.

[Travis Holloway]

Listen to the Wealth Break podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

[Christiane Amanpour]

I'm Christiana Manpour and I've been on the front lines and interviewing world leaders for more than 30 years.

[Jamie Rubin]

And I'm Jamie Rubin, a former advisor to both Presidents Clinton and Biden.

[Christiane Amanpour]

We were married for 20 years and.

[Lee Smith]

Divorced divorced for seven.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Now we've joined forces on the X Files to make sense of how we ended up with no world order. Listen to Christiana Manpur presents the X files on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, check.

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