Summary of "The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show" Episode: "Tudor Dixon Podcast: Inside the CIA's Counterterrorism Strategy with Michael Ellis"

Release Date: May 12, 2025

In this compelling episode of "The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show," hosted by iHeartPodcasts, Tudor Dixon delves deep into the CIA's evolving counterterrorism strategies with Michael Ellis, the Deputy Director of the CIA. The conversation offers listeners an insider's perspective on how the CIA is adapting to contemporary threats, particularly focusing on the rise of international cartels and the growing geopolitical tensions with China.

Introduction to the CIA's Shift in Counterterrorism Focus

[08:50 - 09:08]

Tudor Dixon opens the episode by introducing Michael Ellis, emphasizing the significance of having a top CIA official discuss the agency's current and future strategies. Dixon highlights the CIA's broader mission under President Trump's administration, setting the stage for a detailed exploration of counterterrorism efforts.

• Tudor Dixon: "Welcome to the Tudor Dixon Podcast. Last week I had the honor of sitting down with the deputy director of the CIA, Michael Ellis."

Targeting International Terrorism: The Case of Jafar

[09:09 - 11:48]

Ellis recounts a significant achievement within the first hundred days of the administration: the capture and extradition of Jafar, a key organizer behind the Abbey Gate plot aimed at killing American service members. This operation underscored the CIA's commitment to dismantling terrorist networks.

• Michael Ellis: "One great win from the first hundred days... we found him, tracked him down, helped extradite him to the United States, where he was going to be facing charges to be held accountable."

Redefining Counter-Narcotics as Counterterrorism

[11:48 - 15:28]

A pivotal point in the discussion is the reclassification of international cartels as terrorist organizations. Ellis explains how this strategic shift unlocks additional legal authorities, enabling the CIA to employ counterterrorism tactics against these groups. The focus has expanded from traditional threats like Al Qaeda to the internal menace posed by drug cartels responsible for the fentanyl crisis.

• Ryan Seacrest (Tudor Dixon): "The President Trump's priorities is the total elimination of the cartels. And that is what we are going to do with CIA."

• Michael Ellis: "This is about dismantling a network. That is something that CIA has spent two decades of the war on terror learning how to do."

Impact of Designating Cartels as Terrorist Organizations

[11:48 - 12:00]

Ellis elaborates on the implications of this designation, noting that it provides the CIA and other government agencies with enhanced tools to combat these groups more effectively.

• Ryan Seacrest: "They're recognizing these groups... it unlocks some additional legal authorities... to take on this threat."

Public Perception and Media Representation

[12:53 - 14:34]

Michael Ellis addresses the public's perception of these operations, particularly how media portrayal impacts the understanding of the threat posed by cartels. He emphasizes the importance of humanizing both the perpetrators and the victims to illustrate the real consequences of failing to secure national borders.

• Michael Ellis: "Putting the faces on it... like remembering the harm that has been caused by the failure to secure our border."

China as the Foremost National Security Threat

[20:12 - 25:39]

A significant portion of the conversation shifts to China's role as the primary geopolitical adversary. Ellis and Dixon discuss China's multifaceted threat, encompassing economic espionage, intellectual property theft, and technological competition. They highlight how President Trump was pivotal in recognizing and addressing these challenges, contrasting it with previous administrations' policies.

• Ryan Seacrest: "China, in addition to the fentanyl precursor problem... President Trump was the first one to stand up and really change the dynamic."

• Michael Ellis: "China really was what crushed our foundry and so many others in the United States."

Intellectual Property Theft and Economic Espionage

[22:17 - 23:14]

Ellis delves into the specifics of intellectual property theft, illustrating how Chinese entities have systematically copied American innovations, thereby crippling domestic industries. He underscores the need for robust countermeasures to protect U.S. technological advancements.

• Michael Ellis: "It's very dangerous to have them get a hold of our intellectual property."

• Ryan Seacrest: "We have to empower the American private sector, and we have to understand China's capabilities to be able to succeed in that competition."

Restoring Deterrence and Enhancing Cybersecurity

[23:14 - 24:23]

The discussion moves to the importance of restoring deterrence against China's aggressive cyber activities. Ellis points out that previous efforts lacked the teeth needed to hold Chinese adversaries accountable, advocating for more offensive operations to impose significant costs on violators.

• Ryan Seacrest: "Sometimes that means that we have to engage in offensive operations ourselves to be able to create again, a cost to China..."

Balancing Multiple Threats: Beyond China

[24:23 - 25:39]

While China stands out as the paramount threat, Ellis acknowledges other ongoing challenges, including Russia, Iran, North Korea, ISIS, and Al Qaeda. He emphasizes that despite these varied threats, China's unique position as a technological and economic powerhouse presents an existential risk to U.S. interests.

• Ryan Seacrest: "None of them have the capability that China has. None of them pose an existential threat to America in the way that China does."

Reprioritizing within the CIA Post-Biden Administration

[25:39 - 27:03]

Ellis reflects on the changes within the CIA following the transition from the Biden to the Trump administration. He criticizes previous leadership for allowing social and cultural distractions to interfere with the agency's mission. Under his and Director Ratcliffe's leadership, the CIA is reestablishing a meritocratic and mission-focused culture.

• Ryan Seacrest: "We're putting the focus on squarely back on the mission, the social and cultural issues... should not be doing it at work."

Conclusion: A Renewed Commitment to National Security

[27:01 - 27:03]

Ellis concludes by expressing gratitude for the opportunity to lead the CIA into a new era of focused counterterrorism and counter-narcotics efforts, highlighting the importance of these initiatives for national security.

• Michael Ellis: "I think the first hundred days has been phenomenal. We're excited to see what else you do."

Key Takeaways

1. Strategic Shift: The CIA is reorienting its counterterrorism efforts to address not only traditional threats like Al Qaeda but also the significant internal threat posed by international cartels involved in the fentanyl crisis.

2. Designation of Cartels as Terrorist Organizations: This move provides the CIA with enhanced legal tools to combat cartels more effectively, treating them with the same urgency as other terrorist groups.

3. China as a Principal Threat: China is identified as the foremost national security threat due to its extensive involvement in intellectual property theft, economic espionage, and technological competition.

4. Restoring Deterrence: There is a renewed focus on implementing robust deterrence strategies against Chinese cyber activities, including potential offensive operations to impose costs on violators.

5. Internal Reforms within the CIA: Under new leadership, the CIA is striving to eliminate distractions, fostering a meritocratic environment focused solely on the agency's mission to protect national security.

6. Holistic National Security Approach: The conversation underscores the importance of a comprehensive approach that combines international intelligence efforts with domestic law enforcement to address multifaceted threats.

Notable Quotes

• Michael Ellis, Deputy Director of the CIA:

  • "[...] we're shifting resources, we're shifting personnel, but really we're taking some of the lessons learned from that counterterrorism fight to destroy the cartels." [09:27]

• Ryan Seacrest (Tudor Dixon):

  • "China... is the top priority for us. This is an existential threat." [20:28]

• Michael Ellis:

  • "None of them pose an existential threat to America in the way that China does." [24:39]

• Ryan Seacrest:

  • "We're putting the focus on squarely back on the mission, the social and cultural issues... should not be doing it at work." [25:58]

Conclusion

This episode provides a revealing look into the CIA's strategic priorities and the broader national security landscape. Michael Ellis articulates a clear vision for addressing both traditional and emerging threats, emphasizing the necessity of adaptability and focused leadership within intelligence agencies. For listeners interested in understanding the complexities of modern counterterrorism and the geopolitical challenges posed by nations like China, this episode offers valuable insights and a roadmap for future efforts.