Tylenol Bombshell: Reporter Reveals Proof The FDA May Be Hiding The Truth

Summary

---

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Tylenol Bombshell: Reporter Reveals Proof The FDA May Be Hiding The Truth
Date: October 29, 2025
Guests:

• David Rutherford (Guest Host)
• Emily Kopp (Investigative Journalist, Daily Caller)

---

Episode Overview

This episode spotlights blockbuster investigative reporting by Emily Kopp, who reveals internal FDA documents suggesting the agency has been aware for years of research indicating a potential link between Tylenol (acetaminophen) use during pregnancy and neurodevelopmental disorders, including autism and ADHD-like behaviors, yet repeatedly chose not to warn the public. The interview digs into the suppressed science, bureaucratic failures, and implications of this possible FDA cover-up, with added discussion of the ongoing class action lawsuit against Tylenol’s manufacturer.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Tylenol–Autism Controversy

[03:35–07:20]

• Background: A major article by Emily Kopp (Daily Caller) uncovers years of agency memos, epidemiology reports, and internal reviews that concluded by 2016 the FDA should warn pregnant women of acetaminophen’s potential risks—but the agency did not act.
• The FDA began investigating the link in 2014 after a landmark JAMA Pediatrics study raised concerns.
• By 2016, FDA Senior Medical Officer Andrew Mossholder had reviewed 8 observational studies—7 finding associations with attention deficits, delayed motor development, and autistic behaviors.

“FDA higher ups suppressed the recommendation year after year.”
— Emily Kopp [04:17]

• Despite mounting evidence, public communications from the FDA continued to downplay the risk, often referencing only the single 2014 study.

---

2. Suppressed Evidence and Internal FDA Debate

[07:20–12:33]

• Meta-Analyses vs. Dismissal: The oft-cited “one study” was a meta-analysis—a rigorous aggregation of existing studies, not a flimsy or isolated report.
• FDA drug safety reviewers repeatedly called for warning pregnant women—citing consistent associations (not causal proof).
• FDA Response: Instead of warning, higher-ups released a minimal 2015 notice and did not update further, even as more science accumulated.
• Kopp’s Methodology: She obtained extensive FDA documents via FOIA and class action suit discovery, painstakingly reviewed hundreds of files to ensure reporting integrity.

“These FDA reports clearly… stuck out.”
— Emily Kopp [11:12]

---

3. Redacted Animal Studies and Questions About Transparency

[12:33–15:27]

• The FDA also conducted independent toxicology studies on acetaminophen in animals.
• Results? Completely redacted from released documents.

“If the science truly indicates that there is no risk here, I think that’s something the FDA should inform the public of. But if there is a concern, then the public deserves to know that too.”
— Emily Kopp [14:57]

• Kopp’s investigative experience suggests inconvenient facts or embarrassing findings are often the reason for heavy redactions.

---

4. Bureaucratic Dynamics: Power, Inertia, and Influence

[22:47–29:35]

• Key FDA Players: Janet Woodcock, former acting FDA commissioner (40 years tenure), led the pivotal 2018 committee that again opted to “do nothing”—not even consider a warning label.
• Discussion of deep-rooted, unaccountable FDA bureaucrats paralleling figures like J. Edgar Hoover or Anthony Fauci.
• Woodcock oversaw the division responsible for OxyContin’s approval, often at odds with the FDA’s own advisors, and defended controversial opioid decisions.

“She was… a creature of the status quo.”
— Emily Kopp [26:10]

• Big Pharma Influence: The FDA receives “user fees” paid by the drug industry, introducing possible conflicts of interest and reinforcing “the status quo.”

---

5. Political and Systemic Factors in Drug Safety Decisions

[31:47–35:22]

• Pharmaceutical lobbying is often indirect; companies work through lawmakers who control the FDA’s budget.
• This indirect influence can shape agency actions without overt lobbying.
• Kopp notes parallels to OxyContin: a repeatedly-cited “foundational” paper suggested safety (for Tylenol, lack of liver toxicity), which may have diverted attention from other possible harm (neurological effects).

---

6. The Class Action Lawsuit Against Tylenol (Ken View)

[42:13–48:43]

• A major nationwide class action is underway; early efforts unsuccessful when the judge excluded plaintiff experts for failing to prove causation.
• Current Status: The case, initially litigated in Southern District of New York (Judge Denise Cote), is headed for appeal hearings in November.

“One thing that’s curious is that Biden’s Department of Justice weighed in… but they only cite one [FDA] report… that, unlike every other prior FDA report… didn’t have a recommendation section at all.”
— Emily Kopp [44:27]

• DOJ and the FDA’s most recent public documents downplay the causal link, omitting history of internal warnings. Ongoing legal maneuvering expected to reveal more.

---

7. The Culture of the FDA: Patterns of Suppression

[49:39–51:36]

• A historical parallel: The same epidemiologist urging Tylenol warnings also blew the whistle in 2003 on increased suicides in children on antidepressants—facing harassment and attempted suppression from FDA superiors.
• Only after Congressional inquiry did the FDA mandate a black box warning.

“An institution with that sort of culture… would it be capable of being responsible for a cover up of neurological damage of a major drug like Tylenol? I think it’s safe to say they would be capable of something like that.”
— Emily Kopp [51:00]

---

8. Implications & The Way Forward

• Americans’ skepticism of the FDA has been reinforced by recurring scandals—opioids, COVID vaccines, and now potentially Tylenol.
• The episode closes with appeals for more rigorous oversight, independent research, and public vigilance.

---

Notable Quotes

• “FDA higher ups suppressed the recommendation year after year.”
  — Emily Kopp [04:17]

• “He’s not calling for, you know, a public relations campaign against Tylenol… just saying we need to warn women about the potential for a risk.”
  — Emily Kopp [07:20]

• “We don’t know [about the toxicology results] because for some reason… the FDA entirely redacted them.”
  — Emily Kopp [13:57]

• “She (Janet Woodcock) was… a creature of the status quo.”
  — Emily Kopp [26:10]

• “If the science truly indicates that there is no risk here, I think that’s something the FDA should inform the public of. But if there is a concern, then the public deserves to know that too.”
  — Emily Kopp [14:57]

• “People… have this healthy skepticism of the FDA. And there’s this attitude in the press: how dare Kennedy challenge the science. But… these institutions need to prove they are following the science.”
  — Emily Kopp [28:46]

---

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic | |---------------|----------------------------------------------------| | 03:35 | Introduction: Tylenol–Autism Story | | 04:17 | FDA’s Internal Reports and Suppression | | 07:20 | Nature of the Science & Meta-Analysis | | 11:12 | Kopp’s Document Review Process | | 12:33 | Redacted Animal Toxicology Studies | | 22:47 | Janet Woodcock & Bureaucratic Inertia at FDA | | 26:10 | Pattern of Unaccountable Power | | 31:47 | Financial Connections & Indirect Pharma Lobbying | | 35:22 | FDA–Big Pharma Symbiosis; Peer-Reviewed Evidence | | 42:13 | Overview of Class Action Lawsuit | | 44:27 | DOJ’s Maneuvering & Selective Citation | | 48:43 | Next Steps: Appeal in November | | 49:39 | FDA’s History: Suppression of Antidepressant Risks| | 51:36 | Systemic Trust Issues with FDA | | 53:27 | Secretary Kennedy’s Response to Reporting |

---

Memorable Moments

• The “one study” defense used by FDA and industry PR was exposed as a meta-analysis—undercutting their minimization of concerns. [07:20]
• Discovery of redacted animal study findings suggests potentially serious undisclosed risks. [13:57]
• The historical context of FDA suppressing whistleblower scientists (antidepressants in kids) reinforces a pattern of agency culture. [49:39]
• The parallel to OxyContin: “all over again” dynamic with foundational safety statements repeatedly cited, despite contradictory internal data. [35:22]
• Real-world implications for parents—host’s own experience reaching for Tylenol when children are sick. [29:35]

---

Closing Thoughts

The episode reveals an alarming pattern in which the FDA, faced with credible scientific evidence about potential risks of a ubiquitous drug, opted to protect institutional interests and industry relationships over issuing timely warnings. Systemic issues—unaccountable bureaucracy, industry influence, and selective transparency—are exposed through Kopp’s dogged reporting. With legal cases ongoing and future revelations likely, public trust in regulatory safeguards remains at stake.

---

Where to Follow Emily Kopp

• Reporting: The Daily Caller
• X (Twitter): @EmilyAnnKopp — DMs open for tips

---

For listeners seeking to understand the Tylenol–autism controversy, FDA integrity, and problems in U.S. drug regulation, this episode offers crucial insights, expert context, and a powerful call for independent investigation.

Transcript

[Podcast Host]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Annabe Sofa Advertiser]

Life's messy. We're talking spills, stains, pets and kids. But with Annabe, you never have to stress about messes again. @washablesofas.com Discover Annabe sofas the only fully machine washable sofas inside and out, starting at just $699. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, that means fewer stains and more peace of mind. Designed for real life, our sofas feature changeable fabric covers allowing you to refresh your style anytime. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly. Perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes. Plus, they're earth friendly and built to last. That's why over 200,000 happy customers have made the switch. Upgrade your space today. Visit washablesofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life. That's washable sofa. Sopas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Podcast Host]

When you wanna grow your list size. Pop up like it's hot Pop up like it's hot Pop up like it's hot and when you gotta boost your revenue Pop up like it's hot Pop up like it's hot Pop up like it's hot. Pick your favorite template you can tailor to your brand. They're mailchimperific. You're gonna be a fan. Mailchimp your marketing with our new customizable pop ups.

[Propane Energy Advertiser]

The US Electric grid is approaching a breaking point as demand soars from data centers and home energy use. Our aging infrastructure can't keep up, and the Department of Energy warns that without action, blackouts could surge 100 fold by 2030. The good news? One solution is already here. Propane. It's American made, stored on site and always ready, powering homes and businesses with cleaner, reliable energy that doesn't depend on the grid or the weather.

[Ollie Dog Food Advertiser]

Learn [e-mail] Happy dance empty bowl, tail in overdrive that's the Ollie effect. Fresh human grade dog food your pup will love. Ollie delivers clean nutrition in five delicious recipes made with real ingredients in the US no fillers, no preservatives, just real food that supports your dog's health from the inside out. Start with a quick 30 second [e-mail] gopup to create a personalized meal plan based on your dog's age, weight and health goals. New subscribers get a welcome kit with two weeks of meals, a free storage container, and a step by step guide to help with the transition. With Ollie, you'll see more energy, shinier coats, healthier weight, and yes easier cleanup. Dogs deserve the best. Go to ollie.com gopup and use code gopup to get 60% off your first box. That's o l l I e dot com gopup. It's backed by a happiness guarantee, so if it's not the right fit, you'll get your money back.

[Podcast Host]

Saks off fifth is your secret to fashion's most wanted deals at up to 70% off on the hunt for designer steals that'll turn heads and leave a trail of envy. Uncover Gucci, Valentino, Versace, Stuart Weitzman and more. With new arrivals dropping weekly at prices too good to stay confidential, Luxe layers statement boots and tailored essentials from Saks off 5th will put your wardrobe on the most wanted list. Head to saksoffvith.com or a Saks Off 5th store near you for a style lineup you won't want to miss.

[David Rutherford]

Does Tylenol cause autism? You're going to find out today on the David Rutherford Show. I'm here today with investigative journalist from the Daily Caller, Emily Kopp, who dropped an article that absolutely just melted my burn brain around this Tylenol autism thing. So Emily, thank you so much for coming on. Is this story true and is there a greater conspiracy that we're unaware of?

[Emily Kopp]

As you know, mind melting as this story is, it is absolutely factual. We at the Daily Caller News foundation take factual reporting very seriously. This went through, I'll be honest, a bunch of edits that was sort of frustrating for me as a reporter that wanted the story out there, but we needed to make sure that we had all of our ducks in a row because of course this story has massive implications. But I read hundreds of documents related to Ken View, the maker of Tylenol, and in this most recent story looked at FDA epidemiology report after FDA epidemiology report, several memos, and they all had the same conclusion going back to 2016, that we need to issue some sort of communication to pregnant women about the risk of taking this drug in pregnancy. And instead FDA higher ups suppressed the recommendation year after year.

[David Rutherford]

I mean, that was the part in your article that really just leapt out at me. And it was this section. I'm just going to read it verbatim. An internal memo reveals that the agency first began examining acetaminophen in pregnancy 11 years ago in May 2014, after an April 2014 study published in the Journal of American Medical association raised concerns about the drug and ADHD like behaviors, prompting its sole statement on the issue for the next decade and in 2015, FDA webpage that acknowledging that, quote, the FDA is aware of concerns, end quote, inciting that single study. Less than two years later, in October 2016, FDA Senior Medical Officer Andrew Moshholder had. Mossholder had reviewed eight observational studies with seven showing an association between acetaminophen and issues including attention deficits, delayed motor development and autistic behaviors. When we had the big press conference at the White house with Kennedy, Dr. Oz and the President, the pushback that I saw meeting afterwards was citing this one report. It's one report. It's one report. But what you're saying is that this senior medical officer Andrew Moshholder, he reviewed eight other studies and there was a much greater consensus that this was going on. You talk through one how you found those, what documents and then where you started to see the string of, I guess cover up is the best word to use, or using tactical language to push it down the road, so to speak.

[Emily Kopp]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think one thing that we should note is that one report was actually a, what they call a meta analysis. So it looked at a bunch of different reports in the scientific literature, said, okay, which ones meet this rigorous criteria and let's summarize the findings of them. And so that one Harvard report that Kennedy cited and that a bunch of people, you know, as you mentioned, were being critical of, was actually a summary of a bunch of the scientific literature which we can see from these internal FDA reports were accumulating over the last decade or so. And that very first report that sort of kicked off FDA reviewing the evidence, it should be noted, was published in the second most prestigious pediatric journal in the country. So this isn't some pre print that hasn't been peer reviewed. This is rigorous science published in a journal that the FDA couldn't ignore. So the FDA launches this internal review of the science, and their top reviewer of drug safety for over the counter drugs produces another meta analysis and shows the science is credible. And he's very careful. He says the association between Tylenol use and apparent neurodevelopmental damage is consistent across these studies, but it's not yet causal. So we can't say for sure. The studies simply aren't uniform enough and they're not designed to suss out whether it's the precise cause. But he says the association is consistent enough that we really need to start informing women about the risk. We just need them to make informed decisions. At the same time, we need to tell them that these other over the counter painkillers have their own risks and that they shouldn't have high fevers and, you know, not be taking anything to treat their high fever. So he's just, he's not calling for, you know, a public relations campaign against Tylenol or anything like that. He's just saying we need to, we need to warn women about the potential for a risk. And instead what happened is FDA did nothing. They released one statement in 2015 about a bunch of different over the counter painkillers and they say were aware of some concerns related to adhd. And they cite that first report in the second most prestigious pediatric journal in the country. As more and more studies accumulate and as privately the FDA is reviewing these studies and finding them credible, FDA issues, no further public communication. And so the documents that I reviewed, they're the internal FDA reports that were obtained via FOIA by this law firm that launched a class action lawsuit against Ken View. And the reason I started reading them is because, you know, I talked to a lead attorney for the plaintiffs, for the parents who feel that their children were affected by Tylenol use. And he was like, sort of citing certain studies and I was like, are those studies public? Are those emails that you're mentioning public? And he said, well, we obtained them in discovery or via foia. And I said I would like to read them. And he said, are you sure it's like hundreds of documents? And I was like, yes. So they just literally sent me their whole docket, whole docket. They didn't point me to, you know, specific documents. And in fact, just for my own integrity as a journalist, I didn't want to work too closely with the firm. So I just read every single document that I could get my hands on and these, these FDA reports clearly, you know, stuck out.

[David Rutherford]

Wow. I, I, you know, for, for me, I, you know, as I looked and I thought, you know, one of the things that is just really cool about your reporting is that you do add in all of those, those counter arguments, right? We, it wasn't really clear how many dosage of Tylenol were taken at, you know, the, the, the, the, the amount of, of the, how often they were taken, you know, and I, I thought that was brilliant report, cool to see. But the other aspect, you know, to reinforce what you're saying is, man, you know, when you get access to something like a class action lawsuit, that's gotta be like gold for you as an investigated journalist. What, what did you learn? Because some of the, some of the documents that you did post were, were incredibly redacted. How much of what you got access to was redacted. Do you think there's incred? There's a lot more that needs to be unredacted and hopefully, you know, Kennedy will, you know, will hear more about this and as the hopefully growing storm grows from your reporting that they'll come out and release some of these. What did you find in those documents?

[Emily Kopp]

Well, first of all, I appreciate your praise of me. Trying to be even handed on the science. That's something that we discussed a lot internally here at the caller. And I know that this is an important issue to so many families. And I want to make sure that the science here isn't ironclad, but it is concerning enough that fda, you know, scientists, rank and file scientists, were saying internally that we should issue some sort of warning. And FDA higher ups who, you know, in many other instances of FDA scandals like the opioid crisis, you know, did the public relations bidding of the pharmaceutical industry. That same pattern to me appears to have occurred here where, where the concern about public relations and about a relationship to the pharmaceutical industry outweighed a concern about giving the public full information. And that definitely plays out in the documents. As you mentioned, there are a lot of redactions. One of the reports states that FDA's toxicology division did their own independent studies. So several of these epidemiology reports, they were sort of collating and summarizing other papers, other scientific papers. But it turns out the FDA did its own independent science and toxicology reports are basically animal studies that look at the, you know, toxicity of a particular drug. And there are certain signals that you can look for in mice to indicate that something is dangerous. For instance, there are certain studies that show that mice and their litter, when exposed to acetaminophen, the mothers stop nursing the infants, which could indicate. Yeah. Some sort of damage there. So what did the FDA find? What were their animal studies showing? We don't know because for some reason, when the law firm submitted a FOIA to the FDA to find these results, the FDA entirely redacted them. And in my experience as an investigative reporter, obviously I can't say what's underneath those black bars. But in my experience as an investigative reporter doing work on other issues like the origins of COVID and foiing nih, it's usually an inconvenient fact. Right. Or something someone's embarrassed of. And if the science truly indicates that there is no risk here, I think that's something that the FDA should inform the public of. But if there is a concern, then the public deserves to know that too.

[David Rutherford]

100%. I mean, that's, trust me, I used to work for the Central Intelligence Agency, who is probably the most notorious in terms of over a billion classified documents. Redactions at that scale. Right. We still haven't even gotten all the unredacted stuff from the Kennedy assassination and all that and much less in every other scandal they've been involved in. Now I'd like to get into some of the key players that are involved in this whole thing, but before I do, I just, I would be remiss if I didn't just give props to one of our new sponsors, an organization, a university, a college that is really transforming the landscape right now. Because, you know, here's the deal. They understand how many people are just mindlessly scrolling through their phones and on watching shows and streaming platforms and they just seem, seem to, you know, be, you know, addicted to this mind numbing content. Well, listen, you know what time you have is so precious in this life. Don't waste it on, on, on, on things that aren't going to make you more educated. And I'm telling you, Hillsdale College is the place to do this now. Hillsdale is offering more than 40 free online courses. That's right. More than 40, 40 free. Foxtrot, Romeo, Echo, Echo. Free 40 free courses online. All right. You can learn about great works from C.S. lewis, stories in the book of Genesis, the meaning of the Constitution, the rise and fall of the Roman Republic, or the ancient history of the Christian college. With Hillsdale Colleges online courses, everything you want to get into is free. The one that always hits me so, so hard and the one that recommend for you, my listeners, people who I know are just really in this revival moment and want to understand the power of Christianity. I personally recommend that you sign up for Ancient Christianity. This is an 11 lecture course. You'll study inspiring stories of Christ, his apostles and all the other faithful people throughout the first four centuries of Christianity. You'll also learn the arguments of key early Christian apologists who defended the Christian faith in the face of overwhelming persecution. Right. All you gotta do is check out, you know, how many times Christians have been persecuted back in the day, including now. Right. The course is self paced so that you can start whenever and wherever you want. In the course, simply enroll now in Ancient Christianity to discover the improbable and miraculous story of Christianity itself. Go right now for your free online courses. If it's not ancient Christianity, one of the 40 free ones they offer, go right now to Hillsdale. Edu David to enroll. There's no cost. Again, it's free. Use your time wisely. It's free and it's easy to get started. That's Hillsdale Edu David to register or click the link in the show notes Hillsdale Edu David all right, life's messy.

[Annabe Sofa Advertiser]

We're talking spills, stains, pets and kids. But with Anabe, you never have to stress about messes again. At washablesofas.com, discover Annabe Sofas the only fully machine washable sofas inside and out, starting at just 699. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, that means fewer stains and more peace of mind. Designed for real life, our sofas feature changeable fabric covers, allowing you to refresh your style anytime. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly. Perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes. Plus, they're earth friendly and built to last. That's why over 200,000 happy customers have made the switch. Upgrade your space today. Visit washablesofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life. That's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Propane Energy Advertiser]

The U.S. electric grid is approaching a breaking point as demand soars from data centers and home energy use, our aging infrastructure can't keep up. And the Department of Energy warns that without action, blackouts could surge 100 fold by 2030. The good news? One solution is already here. Propane. It's American made, stored on site and always ready, powering homes and businesses with cleaner, reliable energy that doesn't depend on the grid or the weather. Learn [e-mail] Happy Dance Empty bowl, tail.

[Ollie Dog Food Advertiser]

In overdrive that's the Ollie effect. Fresh, human grade dog food your pup will love. Ollie delivers clean nutrition in five delicious recipes made with real ingredients in the US no fillers, no preservatives, just real food that supports your dog's health from the inside out. Start with a quick 30 second [e-mail] gopup to create a personalized meal plan based on your dog's age, weight, activity level, and health goals. New subscribers get a welcome kit with two weeks of meals, a free storage container, and a step by step guide to help with the transition. With Ollie, you'll see more energy, shinier coats, healthier weight, and, yes, easier cleanup. Dogs deserve the best. Go to ollie.com gopup and use code gopup to get 60% off your first box. That's o l l I e.com gopup it's backed by a happiness guarantee. So if it's not the right fit, you'll get your money back.

[Podcast Host]

When you wanna grow your list size, Pop up like it's hot Pop up like it's hot Pop up like a tide and when you gotta boost your revenue Pop up like a Todd Pop up like a Todd Pop up like a Todd. Pick your favorite template you can tailor to your brand. They're mailchimp a rip it, you're gonna be a fan. Mailchimp your marketing with our new customizable copy.

[Caulipower Advertiser]

New school year, new routines, and a calendar that somehow filled up overnight. When life gets hectic, the last thing you want to do is cook from scratch. With all of that cleanup for those busy days, cauliflower's got your back. Cauliflower makes the food you crave, but made better for you. The best part, you don't have to sacrifice taste or time so you can honor your cravings without compromising. Think thin, crispy cauliflower crust pizzas, all natural chicken tenders coated in cauliflower. And crowd pleasing nostalgic pizza snacks. Clean ingredients, always ready in minutes. Absolutely full of flavor, 100%. Answering the what's for dinner? Question has never been easier. Caulifower's products are available in freezer aisles nationwide. Visit eatcaulypower.com wheretobuy to find a store near you.

[David Rutherford]

There were some key players in this that really kind of jumped out at me. And one was the former Food and Drug Administration Acting commissioner Janet Woodcock. Can you talk about her and what you found with her relationship to kind of the, the sequence of, of this PR nightmare potentially that they had to manage.

[Emily Kopp]

Yeah. So part of the documents that we looked at were describing this meeting in 2018 where this rank and file FDA epidemiologist overseeing the safety of over the counter drugs made a presentation to a committee of FDA higher ups and said, here's the science. For reasons that remain unclear to me, they weren't even considering a label change. Currently, the the Trump administration and Kennedy are issuing a label change or initiating a label change, which the drug company is fighting. But they didn't even consider that. They just thought, you know, should we, as the rank and file FDA epidemiologist was repeatedly recommending, should we issue some sort of nuanced communication to pregnant women about the potential for risk. And this FDA committee of higher ups, led by longtime FDA bureaucrat Janet Woodcock, decided to essentially do nothing. Kick the can down the road. They commissioned that toxicology report that we were just talking about. That we don't know the results of and said nothing, remained silent. I think this is notable because Americans, at this point, many Americans have a healthy mistrust of the FDA because of.

[David Rutherford]

That's an understatement. I think they outright think they suck. I mean, oh my God. You know, I listened to Tucker's latest interview with Dr. Huff, who was a part of EcoHealth Alliance. I almost fell out of my chair. Like, I mean, I already have my own suspicions of, of where it came from. Why? I mean, I, you know, I've been listening to Dr. Malone since day one on all that, right. And had him on the show talk about it a few months ago. And you know, and to see this now, it's like, well, I mean, it's everywhere you look, right? It's not just, you know, the pandemic of COVID Now it's Tylenol, now it's the COVID it's the MRNA vaccines. How many other drugs in the past have, were, you know, hidden by these bureaucratic officials? And I think we're just seeing another intense reality of, I think a much deeper basket of potential problems with, with the Food and Drug Administration's relationships with farm Big Pharma. So what, what did, what did, how, what were, did, were there some other things I, I, I thought I remembered in, in the article. There were some other, I don't want to say scandals, but there are other questionable drugs and other things that she was a part of as well. Is that true?

[Emily Kopp]

I think she fits a pattern of a lot of long time deep state folks who simply occupy a position of power for too long, unaccountable to any election. Right. Like you think about a J. Edgar Hoover, you think about a Anthony Fauci, you're in the same position decade after decade after decade. She was at the FDA for four decades. You start to accumulate this bureaucratic power that seems almost unaccountable to Congress, unaccountable to elected officials, because you have been around longer and are more knowledgeable and can play the Washington game better than anybody who could fire you. And I think an interesting contrast is looking at some of the people who are in positions of influence at FDA now. You have a Marty Makary, you have a Vinay Prasad, folks who have been critical of the entrenched bureaucracy and who want to shake things up. And you have the Wall Street Journal calling for their heads. You don't see that with Janet Woodcock despite her being there for four decades. So what does that tell you? It tells you that she was, you know, a creature of the status quo. People will often mention FDA user fees that the FDA is sort of funded by the industry it's supposed to regulate. I think that definitely played a role in her behavior. And you allude to other controversial decisions that she oversaw. I mean, she was the head of the division of the FDA that oversees opioids for the beginning, middle, and up until very recently, end of the, there's no end to the opioid crisis, but she was there at the beginning of the opioid crisis. She, you know, led that division at the time of the approval of OxyContin and then subsequently oversaw the approval of many other dangerous opioids, sometimes overriding the FDA's own scientific advisors to do so. And then as recently as 2020, defended that infamous decision of the FDA to approve OxyContin, saying it followed all of their standards and protocols. So what does that say about FDA standards and protocols? So, as I said, I think Americans at this point, post Covid especially, have this healthy skepticism of the fda. And there's this attitude, I think, in the mainstream press that how dare Kennedy challenge the science. But I think the responsibility is on these institutions to prove that they are following the science. It's sort of up to them to regain our trust because there have been so many, so many scandals. And I think top of mind for me right now is why did FDA officials override the recommendation of one of their top epidemiologists to warn pregnant women about Tylenol? What was the harm in just saying, hey, we're reviewing the science and this is what the science is indicating right now?

[David Rutherford]

So I, I, I, I, that is the, the, the, the multimillion dollar question from Tylenol's concern, for sure, and, and you know, from all the people whose children that potentially that this might have harmed in some capacity. I mean, I remember, you know, when my, my, I have four daughters, when, you know, two of the new marriage. But when I, when I was, you know, a young father with my first children, you know, they get sick, they get a fever. What's. First thing I'm doing, I'm, I'm giving them a dose of Tylenol, right? The liquid, you know, you buy in bulk from Walgreens and all these other places because there's a trust in the whole thing. And had I ever been, because I'm a medic, I'm a classically trained civilian paramedic, I was a medic in the SEAL teams. If I was going to administer a drug to one of my guys, I'm going to do the research and figure out what are the marker, what are the biomarkers, what are the things I need, what are the dose sizes, is there any, you know, potentiality for a negative effect efficacy in this? You know, you do all those things, but when it comes to these mega corporations, you just figure, oh, it's a no brainer. There's never been a problem, there's no whatever. But now we absolutely know that there's a symbiotic relationship. Did you find any type of money correlation to Tylenol, people that worked that were in these studies, did you find any, a financial integration with Woodcock or any of these other people? I mean, like I remember in the, in the Peter Berg, you know, documentary or, or, or documentary or drama, mockumentary, whatever they call those things. When he about the Sackler family, there was that one FDA person that went into the hotel room for, you know, 48 hours or whatever it is and came out on the other end and was like approved. You know what? Did you find any other connections? I mean obviously as investigative journals, probably like rule number one for you all is follow the money, right? Did you find anything like that?

[Emily Kopp]

I asked the drug company Ken View, did you have any communications with the FDA about this? Their strategy when it comes to my reporting has just been to ignore me. So they didn't answer that question. But we know that there's a financial relationship and you don't need FOIA or an investigative journalist to tell you that. Actually you just understand that user fees mean that drug companies like Johnson and Johnson now can View and other makers of acetaminophen are partially underwriting the budget of the fda. So absolutely, you know, baseline there is a financial relationship as to whether the company was lobbying the fda. You know, I think one of the cool things about the new leadership at the FDA is they've been doing these podcasts, which has been an insightful way to get a sense of what actually goes on. And they mention how drug companies lobby the fda. They don't necessarily do it directly. They'll go to a lawmaker whose campaigns are, you know, in many cases underwritten by the pharmaceutical industry and say, we're really concerned about this FDA policy. And then the lawmakers who of course set the FDA's budget, who are in charge of their appropriations, will come to the FDA and say, hey, we're hearing this from the industry. What's going on over there? And that'll be sort of the indirect way of putting pressure on the fda. So I thought that was super interesting. I didn't realize that that was how pharma sort of exerts influence on the FDA often. But on the specifics of this case, I think we're still learning more. I definitely hope to learn more. As you mentioned, you know, the opioid cases infamous and Janet Woodcock overseeing cder, the division of the FDA that oversees opioids, also overseeing this case. You know, she doesn't have the best track record. So I think it's a reasonable question to ask. Another parallel, I think to, you know, the case of OxyContin is there was one letter that was cited repeatedly and it was really more of an op ed that said this stuff is not addictive. And it kept getting cited in the scientific literature as this premier evidence that this drug was safe. In the case of Tylenol, there's something very similar where the American Academy of Pediatrics looked at liver toxicity of acetaminophen and they said, well, it doesn't seem to harm the liver, so we think it's okay. And that's sort of repeatedly cited as evidence that it's safe. But then one point that experts who are in favor of this hypothesis that acetaminophen causes neurological damage, they'll point to animal studies showing that mice will die from acetaminophen overdose without their livers being damaged. And we're not really sure how that happens. So much like the OxyContin letter, there is a similar sort of foundational publication saying that this drug is safe that keeps getting repeatedly cited. And I think it's time that we take a second look at that, the evidence there.

[David Rutherford]

So I think you're 100% right. I mean I, you know, all I, as you're saying this thing, all I remember is during COVID right. Every CNN commercial was brought to you by Pfizer. Right. Or you know, it was just one constant from all these organization news so called news organizations. And you know, and you see, you know, the organizations that obviously don't take money from big pharma, such as the Daily Caller and you're able to do good reporting on this because you're not constrained by, by the influence there. Now what I'd really love to do is I want to dig into this class action lawsuit for sure. But before I do, I just got to bring back and touch on one of our great sponsors in terms of Patriot Mobile. Right? Here's the deal. Every choice we make is an opportunity to stand for freedom. That's why I do this show, even something as simple as your cell phone service is a representation of what your wallet means and what type of American company you want to support. Here's the truth. Most cell phone providers don't care about you. They just want your hard earned cash. Patriot Mobile, I promise you, is different. For over 12 years they've stood with Americans who believe in faith, family and freedom, period. Right? Contributing millions of dollars to Christian conservative causes which are all near and dear to my heart. The best part is with Patriot Mobile you don't have to sacrifice quality or service. Patriot Mobile offers premium access to all three US major networks, so you'll never have to worry about coverage wherever you are. Now I know what most people are like. Hey man, I hate switching. It's way too complicated. But I'm here to tell you it is not. It is not. You keep your number, you can keep your phone, or if you're feeling froggy, you upgrade everything across the board. Patriot Mobile's 100% US based team will get you activated in minutes. Right. Keep your number, keep your phone or upgrade across all systems. Right? Patriot Mobile's 100% US based team will get you activated in just a few minutes. Now, are you stuck in a contract or do you still own money on your other phone? It's not a problem at all. They even have a contract buyout program. So you gotta ask yourself, what am I waiting for? All right. Go to patriotmobile.com rutherford or call 972-patriot use promo code rutherford r u t H E R F O R D and you will get yourself one month of free service. That's an entire month of service for free if you switch today. All right, that's patriotmobile.com rutherford or call 972 Patriot. Okay Emily.

[Annabe Sofa Advertiser]

Let'S be real. Life happens. Kids spill, pets shed and accidents are inevitable. Find a sofa that can keep up [e-mail] Starting at just $699, our sofas are fully machine washable inside and out. So you can say goodbye to stains and hello to worry free living. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, they're kid proof, pet friendly and built for everyday life. Plus changeable fabric covers let you refresh your sofa whenever you want. Neat flexibility. Our model modular design lets you rearrange your sofa anytime to fit your space. Whether it's a growing family room or a cozy apartment. Plus, they're earth friendly and trusted by over 200,000 happy customers. It's time to upgrade to a stress free, mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save that's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Propane Energy Advertiser]

The U.S. electric grid is approaching a breaking point as demand soars from data centers and home energy use. Our aging infrastructure and the Department of Energy warns that without action, blackouts could surge 100 fold by 2030. The good news? One solution is already here. Propane. It's American made, stored on site and always ready, powering homes and businesses with cleaner, reliable energy that doesn't depend on the grid or the weather.

[Ollie Dog Food Advertiser]

Learn [e-mail] Happy dance empty bowl, tail in overdrive. That's the Ali effect fresh human grade dog food your pup will love Ollie delivers clean nutrition in five delicious recipes made with real ingredients in the US no fillers, no preservatives, just real food that supports your dog's health from the inside out. Start with a quick 30 second [e-mail] gopup to create a personalized meal plan based on your dog's age, weight, activity level and health goals. New subscribers get a one welcome kit with two weeks of meals, a free storage container and a step by step guide to help with the transition. With Ollie, you'll see more energy, shinier coats, healthier weight and yes, easier cleanup. Dogs deserve the best. Go to ollie.com gopup and use code gopup to get 60% off your first box. That's O-L-L-I-E.com gopup it's backed by a happiness guarantee, so if it's not the right fit, you'll get your money back.

[Podcast Host]

When you wanna grow your list size, pop up like it's hot Pop up like inside Pop up like it's hot and when you gotta boost your revenue pop up like a tide Pop up like it's hot Pop up like a side Pick your favorite template you can tailor to to your brand. They're mailchimp a riffic. You're gonna be a fan mailchimp your marketing with our new customizable pop ups.

[Caulipower Advertiser]

New school year, new routines and a calendar that somehow filled up overnight. When life gets hectic, the last thing you want to do is cook from scratch. With all of that cleanup for those busy days, Caulipower's got your back. Caulipower makes the food you crave but made better for you. The best part you don't have to sacrifice satisfies taste or time so you can honor your cravings without compromising. Think thin, crispy cauliflower crust pizzas all natural chicken tenders coated in cauliflower and crowd pleasing nostalgic pizza snacks. Clean ingredients, always ready in minutes. Absolutely full of flavor 100%. Answering the what's for dinner? Question has never been easier. Caulifower's products are available in freezer aisles nationwide. Visit eatcaulypower.com where to buy to find a store near you.

[David Rutherford]

I want to go back to the class action lawsuit. I saw that they have another big hearing in November. Can you talk a little bit about that and what they're hoping to accomplish in that upcoming trial?

[Emily Kopp]

Sure, yeah. So briefly on the ad point. If you map when direct to consumer advertising started by the pharmaceutical industry and Johnson and Johnson, the maker of Tylenol, former maker of Tylenol before they spun it off into this separate, legally separate company called Ken View a couple years ago, they were a big driver of that. And you map it against autism cases. Again, it's, it's not a, we can't prove causation, but it, it's interesting that they dovetail. So yeah, so there's this class action lawsuit. They were unsuccessful their first go round. Essentially the judge said that the evidence doesn't prove causation and thus we're throwing out all of the plaintiff if experts in this case. They thought they, the firm was overstating its case.

[David Rutherford]

And where was that, where was that case litigated initially? I'm sorry to interrupt you. Where was that case litigated? And do you know the name of the judge?

[Emily Kopp]

The Southern District of New York, Denise Coat, I think is the name of the judge. So folks can independently look into, evaluate.

[David Rutherford]

Her record, which is a whole nother system that we have to evaluate right now with the, the, the justice system, Mike, to not allow your, you know, the class actions experts to testify. I mean, and then to, and then to, you know, in discovery to get, you know, a stack of, you know, redacted information for your case. It's just, it's, it's a sham. The whole thing, it's ridiculous.

[Emily Kopp]

Well, and one thing I'll mention, well, I'll be even handed here. So like the FDA documents we reported on, the experts said pregnant women absolutely need to be warned. But they also said we don't have causation yet repeatedly. And my understanding from scientists is that causation is hard to prove. And so there is a possibility that the firm was overstating its case when it said that there is causation simply because it hasn't been studied in the way that you would need to, in order to prove it. And part of it is difficult because there are major ethical challenges with, you know, studying pregnancy. So I'll say that to be absolutely fair here, one thing that's curious is that Biden's Department of Justice weighed in, in the case with a letter where they mention all of these FDA reports that we describe in our story, but they only cite one of them. And it's this 2023 epidemiology review. The person, the expert who wrote that first initial report saying pregnant women should be warned and then said that again and again in these other internal reports, he had moved on, he had started to. So it was this other official who wrote this 2023 report. And unlike every other prior FDA report that I reviewed, it didn't have a recommendation section at all. So it just said the association has not proven to be causal and then didn't say anything else.

[David Rutherford]

Crickets on.

[Emily Kopp]

And that was the, and that was the only one that Biden's Department of Justice, you know, quoted from in its letter in this case. And so the defendant, the pharmaceutical company can view, was able to say, you know, the FDA says that there's no causal relationship here, nothing to see here. And in fact, the drug company has since, in battling the current fda, the new leadership that FDA has said, the FDA has said in prior reports that there's no causal relationship here, of course, omitting the giant red flag that every other report recommended that pregnant women be warned. So, so that's a curiosity, you might say. I do wonder how that happened.

[David Rutherford]

Oh man, I, I, I, I think it's, it's now so systemic of a, of, of a tactic that it just, I mean, you know, once you, once you figure out how to generate liability for vaccines, you generate how to destroy these class action lawsuits through holding the trials in specific areas with specific judges. I mean the whole idea of lawfare and how to play that game has become a multi billion dollar business of it in itself. So you know, these are tactics that, you know, all these companies have become, you know, invested hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. And so, you know, only by the grace of God and tenacious reporters like yourself does it begin to percolate to the surface. What is the, you said there's going to be a follow up hearing. Do they have, what's the word I'm looking for? They, they appealed the judgment, I'm assuming. And so they're getting up a follow up hearing in November.

[Emily Kopp]

Yeah, so they'll, the judge or another judge will hear an appeal and we definitely plan on covering those proceedings. So. So stay tuned. I think it's possible both sides will have surprises that weren't available in the discovery documents that I reviewed. So more to come and hopefully, you know, no matter what side is successful, the public gets more clarity on this.

[David Rutherford]

Well, I'll tell you what, Emily, if you're up for it, when that next trial or hearing goes down and something pops out of that, we'd love to have you on. There's just real quick, I'm just. So I have to just hit this because this caught my eye as I was going through your page and just look, reading through all your articles, you. There's one you reposted about an article from. What is it? Garden Air Harris, an excerpt speaking about antidepressants and how a new finding is saying that potentially there's a link to suicide in kids for long term use of antidepressants. Are you covering that? Are you doing a story on that? When's that going to come out? And where can people follow you and pay attention because you're just doing, doing great work.

[Emily Kopp]

Thank you. I'm glad you asked about that because it's sort of a nuance that I couldn't get into in depth because I didn't want people to sort of totally lose the thread. But I think it's important in telling about the culture of the FDA. So this actually happened in 2003. The epidemiologist I keep mentioning, the rank and file head drug safety over the counter drug safety expert at the FDA who kept saying, hey, we need to warn pregnant women about Tylenol use. He, you know, 20 years earlier or 15 years earlier put together this report about children on antidepressants having a higher rate of suicide than children who were not depressed, children who were not taking antidepressants. So essentially antidepressants having knee opposite intended effect. And he was greeted by his higher ups at the FDA with harassment. He was not able to present his science at an advisory committee meeting. Those are open to the public. So this would have clued in the public to what was going on. And higher ups even tried to pressure him to change the conclusions of his report. So that it.

[Propane Energy Advertiser]

Wow.

[Emily Kopp]

Yeah. So it wouldn't find this association. This all became public. There was a major congressional hearing and the FDA sort of through having their arms twisted, was forced to issue a black box warning about this risk. But you know, you kind of wonder an institution with that sort of culture would it be capable of being responsible for a cover up of neurological Damage of a major drug like Tylenol. I think it's safe to say they would be capable of something like that.

[David Rutherford]

So I think they're capable of all of this and more because every, it seems like every, every 10 years or so we see where there's, you know, catastrophic fails on their oversight for the American population of people. And I think they're over it. We're over it. We're just sick of it now. We don't know who to trust. We don't know which doctors to go see who are gonna push drugs, more vaccines and more drugs on us and who's gonna support these things because that's a huge component of their fund. How they make money is what they sell in terms of prescriptions. And it all just seems like it's gone to the place where that moral flexibility has been, you know, usurp or that moral construct has been usurped by the power of the dollar. And man, I'm just grateful that you are out there pounding the pavement and digging into these stories, Emily. Where can people follow you and how can they get in touch with you if they have tips or ideas that they want to share with you about great stories involved in what you report?

[Emily Kopp]

Yeah, absolutely. So you can read my reporting at the Daily Caller and then I'm on X at Emily Ann A n n e cop k o p p and my DMs are open and love to chat with folks about story ideas.

[David Rutherford]

So awesome. Emily, thank you so much for what you're doing. Keep up the great work and just. I'm looking forward to. I'm gonna be paying attention if you, if you get another big break. I'd love to have it. And one last thing I do wanna say, say that Secretary Kennedy did reach out to you and compliment you on one of your reporting, didn't he?

[Emily Kopp]

He did, yeah. His knowledge is pretty impressive. He was like, there's this guy, mush older, he like, knew the specific name of the FDA EP epidemiologist. So they're paying close attention to the science. And, and I hope, you know, you mentioned doing your careful research. I think that's sort of where the corruption leads us, is us doing our own independent research, these things. And I hope folks continue to do their own research too.

[David Rutherford]

They will. Thank you so much and God bless you, Emily.

[Emily Kopp]

Thank you so much.

[Annabe Sofa Advertiser]

There's nothing like sinking into luxury. @washablesofas.com you'll find the Annabe sofa, which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom. Starting at only $699, the stain resistant performance fabric slipcover and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now you can shop up to six 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop now at washablesofas.com add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Ollie Dog Food Advertiser]

Happy Dance Empty bowl, tail in overdrive? That's the Ollie Effect Fresh human grade dog food your pup will love Ollie delivers clean nutrition in five delicious recipes made with real ingredients in the US no fillers, no preservatives, just real food that supports your dog's health from the inside out. Start with a quick 30 second [e-mail] gopup to create a personalized meal plan based on your dog's age, weight, activity level and health goals. New subscribers get a welcome kit with two weeks of meals, a free storage container and a step by step guide to help with the transition. With Ollie, you'll see more energy, shinier coats, healthier weight and yes, easier cleanup. Dogs deserve the best. Go to ollie.com gopup and use code gopup to get 60% off your first box. That's o l l I e.com gopup it's backed by a happiness guarantee, so if it's not the right fit, you'll get your money back.

[Podcast Host]

Saks off fifth is your secret to fashion's most wanted deals at up to 70% off on the hunt for designer steals that'll turn heads and leave a trail of envy. Uncover Gucci, Valentino, Versace, Stuart Weitzman and more. With new arrivals dropping weekly at prices too good to stay confidential, Luxe layers, statement boots and tailored essentials From Saks Off 5th will put your wardrobe on the most wanted list. Head to saksofffift.com or a Saks Off 5th store near you for a style lineup you won't want to miss.

[Caulipower Advertiser]

New school year, new routines, and somehow your calendar is already full. When life gets hectic, cauliflower's got your back. We make the food you crave made better for you like thin and crispy cauliflower crust pizzas, all natural chicken tenders and nostalgic pizza snacks ready in minutes in something the whole family can agree on. Cauliflower is available in freezer aisles nationwide. Visit eatcolipower.com to find a store near you.

[Morton Buildings Advertiser]

Looking to build before next spring? Order now with Morton Buildings and get site Prep savings by October 31st. Get ahead of winter weather and save big through the end of October on select projects during Morton Building's Winter Build Sales event. If you need a garage, a stall barn, a storage building for an rv, boat or other vehicles, a shop for your farm hobbies or car restoration projects or anything in between, take advantage of this special savings now. Morton Buildings uses quality materials and expert craftsmen with an industry leading warranty to ensure your addition is built stronger, lasts longer and looks better. We'll be working all winter long, but the building spots are limited. With offers this great, why wait? Visit MortonBuildings.com and click Get Started Today. Certain restrictions may apply. Savings offer on new building purchases by October 31, 2025. Building delivery required by April 30, 2026. Contact your local Morton office for more details.

[Podcast Host]

This is an iHeart podcast.