VERDICT WITH TED CRUZ: The Wit & Wisdom of Sen John Kennedy One-on-One

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Episode: VERDICT WITH TED CRUZ: The Wit & Wisdom of Sen John Kennedy One-on-One
Date: November 4, 2025
Host: Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson
Guest: Senator John Kennedy

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Overview

In this engaging and laughter-filled episode, Senator Ted Cruz and co-host Ben Ferguson welcome Senator John Kennedy to discuss Kennedy’s new book, “How to Test Negative for Stupid and Why Washington Never Will.” The conversation blends political insight, Southern humor, and behind-the-scenes stories from the Senate, highlighting Kennedy’s renowned wit and cross-examination skills. The episode also serves as both a window into Kennedy's worldview and a comedic roast among political friends.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing John Kennedy and His New Book (01:05)

• Ted Cruz begins by praising Kennedy’s humor, legal acumen, and reputation for intimidating Senate witnesses.
• Kennedy’s book: “How to Test Negative for Stupid and Why Washington Never Will.”
  • Original title idea: “Always Be Yourself Unless You Suck” (02:08)
  • Why he wrote the book: To humanize the Senate, critique D.C., and offer hope through common sense (15:45, 16:33).
  • Kennedy: “The water in Washington, D.C. is not going to clear up until you get the pigs out of the creek.” (16:53)

2. Senate Humor & Friendships (02:22–04:35)

• Kennedy shares stories about entertaining at Cruz’s donor events by roasting Cruz and other Senators.
• Signature Kennedy jokes targeting SEC schools and other senators:
  • “He [Cruz] is really, really, really smart. But so was the Unabomber.” (03:05)
  • “How do you get an OU grad off your porch? Pay him for the pizza.” (03:53)
  • “Why did Alabama raise the drinking age to 32? To keep alcohol out of the high schools.” (04:20)

3. Kennedy’s Cross-Examination Highlights (05:34–09:55)

• Renowned for putting judicial nominees on the spot, causing some to withdraw nominations after devastating questioning.
  • Example: “If you cannot answer what is Article 2…you’re a smoked turkey, man, you’re dead as fried chicken.” (07:03)
  • Story about Trump calling Kennedy after a bad nominee: “Just because you’ve seen My Cousin Vinny doesn’t qualify you to be on the federal bench.” (08:13)
• Stories of cross-examining both Democrat and Republican nominees.
• “Should I call you, comrade?” – his infamous line to a Biden nominee with Russian connections (09:01).

4. How Senate Hearings Work—Murderers’ Row (12:18–13:06)

• The order of questioning: Mike Lee, Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley, then John Kennedy – each with their own style.
  • “Ted could talk a dog off a meat wagon and he could talk the hide off a cow.” (12:30)

5. Trial Lawyer vs. Appellate Lawyer: Storytelling and Style (13:07–15:36)

• Cruz on appellate law: “Being an appellate lawyer is a more academic skill. Trial lawyers tend to be better storytellers.”
• Kennedy on Lindsay Graham: “If you invite Lindsay to dinner… he could get drunk and vomit in the fish tank and you don’t know which.” (15:18)

6. What’s in the Book? The Purpose and Audience (15:38–17:29, 34:13–35:56)

• It’s a book of stories, not just policy, aimed at the “average American.”
• Kennedy: “I don’t try to muddy the water to make it look deep. The American people don’t have time for that.” (34:34)
• Calls out Washington’s dysfunction: “Normal is just a setting on the clothes dryer.” (16:42)
• The Senate’s social dynamics: “It’s like high school but nobody ever gets out of the sophomore year.” (16:42)
• Kennedy talks about colleagues:
  • Chuck Schumer likened to a “five-year-old in a Batman costume on a sugar high.” (18:32)
  • Mitch McConnell vs. Chuck Schumer: “Each is very smart, each is very tenacious, and each of them could lose his place during sex.” (19:29)

7. Kennedy’s Small-Town Roots & Changing Role of Rural America (25:38–29:18)

• Growing up in Zachary, Louisiana, “small town America is America.” (26:29)
• Rural communities’ values and the disconnect with the D.C. elite.
  • “President Biden’s people … all thought they were smarter and more virtuous than everybody else.” (27:04)
• How Trump tapped into rural America’s frustration. Kennedy: “Even though he’s a billionaire…he doesn’t talk down to people.” (28:06)
• On Trump’s humor and debates: “He doesn’t get credit for the sense of humor he has.” (28:17)

8. Candid Reflections and Self-Deprecating Humor (30:31–32:01, 38:01)

• Kennedy’s path to law: Focused on basketball and cheerleaders as a youth, only later aiming for law school.
• Education emphasized by his Depression-era dad.
• Fun fact: His old law partner’s name was Jose Canseco (the joke, not the baseball player).

9. The Bumpy Road into Politics (38:37–41:17)

• Louisiana politics “was rough… it was under Governor Edwin Edwards. I wasn’t part of his clique.” (38:37)
• Famous campaign bumper sticker: “Vote for the crook, it matters.” – when Edwards ran against David Duke (39:09)
• Switched parties after finding the Democratic Party too left for his values.

10. Inside the Senate: Frustrations & Realities (41:17–43:23)

• On Senate pacing: “You can’t gallop in the Senate. You have to inch along.” (41:24)
• Importance of blocking bad ideas as much as advancing good ones.
• Frictions with Senate leadership (Mitch McConnell) and missed policy opportunities.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Ted Cruz’s intellect: “Let me tell you what you have to understand about Ted Cruz. He is really, really, really smart. But so was the Unabomber. And therein lies the problem.” – Sen. John Kennedy (03:05)
• On Judicial Nominees: “If you cannot answer what is Article 2? … You’re a smoked turkey, man, you’re dead as fried chicken.” – Sen. John Kennedy (07:03)
• On changing Washington: “The water in Washington, D.C. is not going to clear up until you get the pigs out of the creek.” – Sen. John Kennedy (16:53)
• On his book: “I hope it’ll make people think. It may make you laugh. It’s the truth. It may make you day drink because I don’t sugarcoat it.” – Sen. John Kennedy (18:32)
• On Chuck Schumer: “Imagine a five-year-old in a Batman costume on a sugar high. That’s how Chuck is when he gets excited.” – Sen. John Kennedy (18:32)
• On Senate social life: “It’s like high school, but nobody ever gets out of the sophomore year.” – Sen. John Kennedy (16:42)
• On Politicians: “Each is very smart, each is very tenacious, and each of them could lose his place during sex.” (referring to McConnell and Schumer) – Sen. John Kennedy (19:29)
• John Kennedy reflecting on his plainspoken style: "I have the right to remain silent, but God did not give me the ability." (34:50)
• Classic Kennedyism: “Christmas tree ornaments and Jeffrey Epstein. Two things you know didn’t hang themselves.” (45:01)
• Self-awareness: “You can’t accuse me of not being self-aware. I’m fully aware that my voice scares small children and sets off car alarms, but it’s my voice.” – Sen. John Kennedy (44:47)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro and Welcome: 01:05
• Book Genesis & Roast Stories: 02:08–04:35
• Judicial Cross-Examinations: 05:34–09:55
• Murderers’ Row in Judiciary: 12:18–13:06
• Trial vs. Appellate Lawyer Discussion: 13:07–15:36
• Contents & Audience for the Book: 15:38–17:29; 34:13–35:56
• Senate Social Life: 16:33–16:53
• Reflections on Small Town Upbringing: 25:38–29:18
• Rural America’s Voice in Politics: 26:29–29:18
• Path to Law and Political Career: 30:31–32:01, 38:37–41:17
• Senate Pacing & Leadership Frustrations: 41:17–43:23
• Classics and Closing Kennedyisms: 44:47–45:45

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

• The episode flows with sharp wit, a healthy dose of self-deprecation, and honest—sometimes biting—assessments of Washington and its personalities.
• Kennedy’s Southern charm and colorful metaphors are on full display, making the political discussion lively and relatable.
• The central theme is a call for common sense in government, a realistic look at the inner workings of the Senate, and the enduring importance of humor in politics.
• The book is positioned as a candid, humorous, and sometimes sobering look at the realities of Washington and the lived experience of one of its most memorable characters.

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Recommended for: Listeners interested in U.S. politics, Senate behind-the-scenes stories, and anyone who appreciates sharp Southern humor and political candor.

Transcript

[iHeart Radio Announcer]

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[Senator John Kennedy]

Who's a good boy? Who's a good boy?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

You're a good boy.

[Senator John Kennedy]

That's right, dude. You're a good.

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So why not make the next ad about you? Get started today. Call 844-844-IHEART or go to iheartadvertising.com that's 844-844-iheart or iheartadvertising.com welcome.

[Ben Ferguson]

It is verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you, and this is gonna be one of those shows that's just gonna be an awful lot of fun. A good friend of mine and a great friend in the Senate of Senator Cruz has got a new book out with maybe one of the best titles for 2025, how to test negative for stupid. Senator, you're in D.C. and this is just gonna be one of those shows which I hope everyone enjoys as much as you and I. Out with our next guest.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, I'm very glad to. Welcome to Verdict, John Kennedy. John is one of my dearest friends in the Senate. He is someone, I am really glad came to be in the Senate. He is someone with a wicked sense of humor. He is the most dangerous cross examiner in the entire United States Senate. And in fact, entire generations of judicial nominees and nominees from administrations have studied past John Kennedy cross examinations. They still have PTSD from the terror that he puts in them. And this man, in addition to being brilliant as hell, is also as good a standup comedian as I've ever known. He's written a book. The title of the book is how to Test Negative for Stupid and why Washington Never Will. John, welcome to Verdict. I gotta say, your book sucks and it's not funny.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Well, number one, the publisher, Ted, wouldn't let me use the title. I wanted. I wanted to say always. I wanted the title to be always be yourself unless you suck. And they said Harper Coven said, no, that that's not going to work. I also got to tell one of my best Ted Cruz stores, oh, my Ted. Ted's people invited me out. You remember this? Yeah, he had a huge fundraiser somewhere out there. Some fancy place. I don't remember. I mean, it was the room. I mean, it was really fancy.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Rich people don't go to Motel 6.

[Senator John Kennedy]

And, and and I'm a Motel 6 guy. And anyway, I go out there and Ted's people said, you remember? I said, what do you want me to talk about? They said, make fun of Ted. I said, okay. And I said, these are all of his friends. And they said, yeah, these are big heavyweight people. Okay. We were talking mega rich. So I started off and I said, y' all know Ted. Y' all know Ted. Well, I said, let me tell you what you have to understand about Ted Cruz. He is really, really, really smart. But so was the Unabomber. And therein lies the problem. You can't leave him unsupervised. And all the Ted's contributors stood up and they're going, yeah, that's Ted. That's our Ted. It was great.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

So John is not kidding at all.

[Senator John Kennedy]

It's really happening.

[Ben Ferguson]

No, he's not. I was there. I was a witness.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And his entire lunch remarks were basically a stand up comedy routine.

[Senator John Kennedy]

We had a great time.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And one of the things he did is he just basically went through the SEC and made fun of everybody.

[Senator John Kennedy]

It's easy.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

So he started, he said, how do you get an Oklahoma, an OU grad off your front porch? Pay the man for the pizza.

[Senator John Kennedy]

I remember that.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

He said, what do you call a genius in Georgia? A visitor. And then, I'm sorry, Ben. He then said, what does an old miss Grad get on his act? Drool.

[Senator John Kennedy]

We had a great time. I got him on Alabama. I said, why did Alabama raise the drinking age to 32? To keep alcohol out of the high schools, Ben. We had the best time.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And he's told that Alabama joke at our Senate Republican lunches. And Richard Shelby was chairman of the Appropriations Committee. And I'm pretty sure he, like, pulled a billion dollars out of Louisiana.

[Senator John Kennedy]

It cost me millions, man. It cost me millions, but it was worth every penny.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, look, John, is what I said about his cross examination, that is not an exaggeration.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Well, that's very kind.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

It is a beautiful look. And to be honest, he has done that. He does that mostly to Democrat nominees, but he's done that to Republicans also. And one of the things people don't necessarily know, before John was in the Senate, he was a trial lawyer, and he was a hell of a trial lawyer. And he knows how to talk to a jury. You know, John is a little bit. He's got a Southern accent and sometimes he puts it on a little deep. But I sort of analogized John to like, you know, you know, there's an old rule of never play poker. With someone named after a state.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Yep, yep, yep.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And John, good rule when the draw gets deep.

[Ben Ferguson]

Amen.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And he'll be like, well, I don't know much about that. You were about to get robbed. It's like at a poker table when someone says, now remind me, does a straight beat a flush or a flush beat a straight? Like, hold on to your wallet and run out of the door. And so, so when John begins cross examining. All right, is there, is there a cross examination you've done in the Senate? That's your favorite.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Oh, gosh, the lady. I don't remember her name. Ted, you'll remember because you beat the living hell out of her, too. That couldn't name any provision of the Constitution that.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Okay, she was the one that didn't know Article 5.

[Senator John Kennedy]

That's right. She's from Washington State. And she, she, after it was over.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Joker, in something like that, she quit.

[Senator John Kennedy]

And. Which was smart.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

I mean, and then the one, okay, Article 5 is the provision. It's the part of the Constitution that lays out how constitutional amendments happen. And he asked about Article 5, and then, and this was cruel, but then he asked, well, how about Article 2? And she couldn't answer. And look, if you're not a lawyer, that doesn't seem like a question that. Look, the way the Constitution set up Article 1 sets up the Congress, Article 2 sets up the executive and the president, and Article 3 sets up the judiciary. If you cannot answer what is Article 2? You will flunk first year civil procedure constitutional law like you, you're done with.

[Senator John Kennedy]

You know, you're a smoked turkey, man, you're dead as fried chicken.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And she had no idea. I'm pretty sure we played that, that cross examination on this podcast. We played a bunch of years. And that really was, by the way, this woman was nominated to be what's called an Article 3 judge.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Right.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And I'm pretty certain she has no idea what Article 3 is either. But it was devastating. But, but to be clear, look, John doesn't just do that to Democrats. There was a poor fellow who Trump nominated the Court of Appeals, I remember, and district court, federal district court, district court. You're right, you're right. He had been on the Federal Election Commission.

[Senator John Kennedy]

That's exactly right.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Nice guy, nice guy, smart guy, but had no trial experience whatsoever. And I will say John's cross examination was so devastating that they withdrew the nomination. Like, it literally at the end of that cross, they're like, okay, yeah, he's not gonna be a judge.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Well, he's a nice guy, but he just wasn't ready to be a federal judge. And after it was over, the President called, press called me. I, I was, I had phone back home. I was in New Orleans. Phone rings. You know the way it works. Unknown number, you go, okay, it's White House. I'm ready to take my kit, my whip in here. So I pick up the phone and crew and Trump says, who? Kennedy. I watch your. Your examination. This guy. He said, who was this guy? I said, well, he's your nominee. And he said, he doesn't sound too. Did I interview him? And I said, no, Mr. President, your staff did. And he said, you know, he doesn't seem very qualified. He said, what do you think? I said, well, Mr. President, just because you've seen my cousin Vinnie doesn't qualify you to be on the federal bench. And he said, yeah, you're right. He said, what do you think we ought to do? And I said, well, let's put him out of his misery. I don't want to embarrass him. And he. The President withdrew the appointment.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Yeah. No, it was. I have never seen a cross examination take out a nominee. Although. What was it? It was the Biden nominee who was the Russian who graduated from a Russian university. And your line was, should I call you comrade?

[Senator John Kennedy]

She was nominated for comptroller of the currency. She was a former member of the Communist Party of Russia. She had graduated from Moscow State University, and her dissertation, a copy of which she wouldn't give us, was on Karl Marx. So real. Yeah, Ben, it was. And she was. Her main argument for being comptroller of the currency, which of course is responsible for all the state banks, was to get rid of all the banks and have everybody nominate, or bank rather, from the Federal Reserve.

[Sponsor Representative (Burnham or Hillsdale College)]

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[Ben Ferguson]

All right, I got a question for.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Both of you on this shoot, man.

[Ben Ferguson]

Has there ever been a time that you guys are both sitting there beating the hell out of someone and do you ever look at each other and grin like, how does it work? Like, you go, then I go, Ted.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Goes first and he knocks him to Pluto and softens him up. And I talk about it in my book. You know, I think, what did I say about Ted? I said I didn't call him articulate though he is. I said Ted could talk a dog off a meat wack and he could talk the hide off a cow. And he knocks these witnesses to Pluto. And then Josh Hawley, I think is ahead of me, goes next. And then I bat cleanup.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

There's a murderer's row.

[Senator John Kennedy]

We have fun.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And it actually starts with Mike Lee. And from Mike Lee to John Kennedy. I mean, those are four questioners. I actually feel for a witness because that's. And they're also different styles. So I will say, Ben, one thing that, that, that you may not, not appreciate not being a lawyer, but, but John's and my legal careers are very, very different. So I'm an appellate lawyer and the vast majority of what I've done is argue in a court of appeals. And a court of appeals is, is totally different.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Very different.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

So there's trial courts and courts of appeals. A court of appeals is. You're standing in front of judges, typically three judges. If it's the Supreme Court, nine judges, and you write a brief that is in the supreme court, it's a 50 page written argument. And then your argument would usually be 30 minutes. And most of it is questioning from judges. So it's questioning about the law. You gotta be quick, you gotta be able to dance. I mean, being an appellate lawyer is a very precise. It's a more, it's a more academic skill. It is very academic. A lot of law professors.

[Senator John Kennedy]

It's an intellectual discussion. That's what it is.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

So a trial lawyer is what most people think of when you turn on the tv. When you think of LA Law or Perry Mason. Like, like a trial lawyer, you're, you're in a courtroom, you're talking to a jury. In a room, you're talking to a jury, you have witnesses. Like appellate lawyers don't have witnesses. You have witnesses. You either have direct examination across. And so trial lawyers tend to be better storytellers, they tend to be more relatable. They're talking to Aunt Bertha in the jury pool instead of Anton and Scalia. I mean, those are different. You have different arguments to Aunt Bertha.

[Ben Ferguson]

Okay.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And so the two best trial lawyers on Judiciary are John Kennedy and Lindsey Graham. Lindsey Graham is also a very talented trial.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Lindsey is very good. He has a little trouble keeping staying on topic sometimes. I talk about Lindsay in the book. I love Lindsay. He's one of my favorites. That's one of the reasons I like Lindsay. How did I put it? He's like Ted and I, he plays out of the pocket and you don't know what you're going to get. If you invite Lindsay to dinner, you may.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

He's a great dinner companion. I mean, you will laugh.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Well, you say if you invite Lindsay to dinner in your home, you may get an intellectual conversation. On the other hand, he could get drunk and vomit in the fish tank and you don't know which. You have no idea. Or both in the same evening.

[Ben Ferguson]

What made you want to write this book?

[Sponsor Representative (Burnham or Hillsdale College)]

I mean, the title is hysterical, but, but, but when did you decide you want to do this?

[Ben Ferguson]

And what is it that people are.

[Sponsor Representative (Burnham or Hillsdale College)]

Going to get if they go buy this?

[Senator John Kennedy]

Well, it was about a year ago. It's. Look, Ted's written four or five. It's been. It's a lot of work. As you well know, this book is not about policy per se. It's a storybook. I use stories to make my points about policy.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And by the way, all good trial lawyers and all good politicians are storytellers. I mean, if you can't tell a story, you don't belong in this business.

[Senator John Kennedy]

That's right. Some of the stories, I think more than some, frankly, are funny. Some of them are bizarre. They're all true. And I use the stories to make three points. Number one, I want people to understand through the stories what the Senate is really like behind the scenes.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And basically think mean girls. It's not even high school. It's a junior high. It's caddy. They're cliques. They're popular kids. They're the geeks. The jocks like it.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Ted. Nail. It's like high school, but nobody ever gets out of the sophomore year. And the second reason I wrote the book, I wanted to help people understand in real time why in Washington, normal is just a setting on the clothes dryer. This place is a different world. And the third reason I wrote it was to try to make people understand that it doesn't have to be this way if we have a return to common sense. But. But I also don't bubble wrap it. The water in Washington, D.C. is not going to clear up until you get the pigs out of the creek. That's just the way it is. And look, some people like the book, some don't. I'm really proud it's doing well.

[Sponsor Representative (Burnham or Hillsdale College)]

All right.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And so I gave him some grief, but it is a terrific book. It is funny. He's telling very real stories. You look at the front, he looks grumpy on the front. That picture you picked, I didn't pick it.

[Senator John Kennedy]

The publisher picked it.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

You know, you look kind of like your stomach's upset, but you look like you're getting ready to rip someone a new one is what it looks like. And so let me encourage everyone who's listening to this or watching this. Go to Amazon, go to Barnes and Noble. Buy the book. Buy one. So look, it's fixing to be November. It's Christmas season. Buy two or three books. Buy a book to give it.

[Senator John Kennedy]

I love this guy.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Give it to your mom. This is a great present, you know, and actually you can give your family members an autograph copy because, see, John's from Louisiana. So he can't actually sign his signatures or just put an X and X. It'll look real.

[Senator John Kennedy]

I ripped through them. Just put that X and it's my X.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And by the way, if you have a liberal uncle buy this for him, it'll piss him off. It'll be the best present you can put under the tree.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Well, I hope the book, I spent a lot of time on it. I hope it'll make people think. It may make you laugh. It's the truth. It may make you day drink because I don't sugarcoat it. And I talk about a lot of different senators. I don't try to be mean, but I talked. I talk about Thune. I talk about President Trump, I talk about President Biden, talk about Senator Grassley. I talk about Chuck Schumer. I think Chuck got a little mad at me because they I described him as imagine a five year old in a Batman costume. I said, that's on a sugar high. That's how Chuck is when he gets excited. And I talked some about Mitch. I explained that, that Ted and I think we were together. We saw Mitch smile once back in 2017.

[Ben Ferguson]

Just one time.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Broke news. I talk about the time I really almost got in trouble on this. Mitch was not amused. But I was asked to compare Mitch McConnell and Chuck Schumer. And I told the truth. I said, they have a lot in common. Each is very smart, each is very tenacious, and each of them could lose his place during sex. Well, my office, Mitch was a majority leader then. And how'd that go, by the way?

[Ben Ferguson]

After. I'd love to see that phone call.

[Senator John Kennedy]

It was a one. I was pretty sure my office was going to be moved to Richmond, as I recall. But anyway, I had fun writing it. But.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And to be clear, that's not the only joke John Kennedy is told about his colleagues having sex. So at my donor retreat, Ben, you will remember this. John stood up in front of everyone and he said, you know, Ted told me about his first sexual experience.

[Senator John Kennedy]

I remember this one.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And everyone starts looking and going, wait, where is this going? He said he was young, it was dark, he was scared, he was alone.

[Senator John Kennedy]

You have to think about that. The folks in the audience took them about five seconds, they said, okay, we get it, we get it.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, we get it.

[Senator John Kennedy]

We're all there.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

I have to admit, I turned to Heidi and I said, wait a second. I paid to fly John here, like out of my campaign money. I paid his airline truck.

[Senator John Kennedy]

We had a good time. We had a good time.

[Ben Ferguson]

That's what happens when you bring a small town Louisiana boy back to the big leagues. You know, with all the highfalutin donors.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Out there, we had a good time.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Champions of Opportunity.

[Sponsor Representative (Burnham or Hillsdale College)]

Kirk Elliott Precious Metals hey, it's Ben Ferguson. Let me tell you, this team has shown me some amazing creativity this season. These guys are the masters of opportunity. They saw it coming, they acted on it and bam, here they are. I guess that's why they call them the Champions of Opportunity. Sports and finances have a lot in common. Both rely on team performance, competence and seizing the opportunities. And that's why Kirk Elliott finds Precious Metals is cheered as the champion of opportunity. The opportunity is here. Gold and silver, cryptocurrency and real estate could be coming to your 401k lineup. So let Kirk Elliott Precious Metals help you get ready for a season of opportunity. Go right now to kepm.com they'll help you capitalize on this moment and take you to victory. Go to kepm.com ben or call them 720-605-3900 Curtis Kirk Elliott Precious Metals the Champions of Opportunity. Operation Overlord the D Day Beaches It's Ben Ferguson and you and I share a passion for history. So I hope you'll join me next spring on the D Day beaches in Normandy. The invasion that sealed Hitler's doom. Omaha and Utah. Discover the sacred patch of sand with me. 10 days in Europe, luxury hotels and fully escorted by America's leading expert on France and the D Day invasion. Ken chase Paris champagne country 5757 and that includes your airfare stand at General Patton's gravesite, Bastone Point du Hawk and Mulberry Harbor. Call now on your cell phone, dial pound250 and say the keyword Conservative Tours or go to conservativetours.com an A plus rating with the BBB. All your sightseeing in Paris too. You'll have the option to receive a one time auto dialed text message from iheartmedia and I'll see you on the Champs Elysees.

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[Ben Ferguson]

I gotta ask you, in your book, one of the cool things is you talk about being a, a small town guy. Is it Jeffrey? Is that right, L.A. no.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Zachary.

[Ben Ferguson]

Okay, gotcha. All right, so I, I actually think there's something interesting that's happening in the country right now and I want to.

[Sponsor Representative (Burnham or Hillsdale College)]

Get your take on it.

[Ben Ferguson]

I think small town America had been overlooked for so long, forgotten, referred to to fly over country. I think there's a huge pendulum swinging right now in this country where rural America is mattering now a lot more than it has in my lifetime. Small town America is being listened to now and has a voice that they haven't had in a long time. The mainstream media has lost a lot of their power to influence and to.

[Sponsor Representative (Burnham or Hillsdale College)]

Try to act like only big cities.

[Ben Ferguson]

Matter and the rest of the country doesn't. Are you seeing the same thing? And as you look back at your career, your life, where you came from, are you, do you see that there's, there's, I think a big glimmer of hope right now that small town America is actually being listened to for once.

[Senator John Kennedy]

In Washington D.C. small town America is America. When I grew up in Zachary, there's about 3,000 people.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Now what part of the state is Zachary?

[Senator John Kennedy]

Zachary is sort of just north of Baton Rouge. Okay, the people, Zachary, when I grew up there. And it's still the case, Ted. You know these folks, they get up every day, they go to work, they obey the law, they pay their taxes, try to save a little money for retirement, try to do the right thing by their kids. They don't read Aristotle every day. They don't have time. They're earning a living.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Exactly. A pretty rural town, there's a lot of farm and ag. What do people do for a living?

[Senator John Kennedy]

Some farm, some ag. But it's about 30 miles north of Baton Rouge, so you could call it a suburb, but that sounds too affluent. But these are real folks and they don't read Aristotle every day, but they get it. And I remember thinking, during the Biden administration, have these people ever been any place but California, Washington and New York? They all, in Washington, President Biden's people, they all thought they were smarter and more virtuous than everybody else. And their attitude toward rural America was we're smarter than you, we're more virtuous than you. Shut up and send us your money and all your freedom and we'll tell you how to, to, to, to, to live your life. And, and I think that's the genesis a part of President Trump's support.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

I mean, absolutely.

[Senator John Kennedy]

I mean Trump picked up on that early on. And even though he's a billionaire and even though he's a New York developer, he doesn't talk down to people.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Yeah, yeah, he doesn't talk down to people. He's very real. He communicates. He tells you exactly what he thinks. You never know what he's gonna say. Cause he's not liable to say anything. He is funny as hell. He actually doesn't get credit for the sense of humor he has, but he can say things that'll just be side splittingly funny.

[Senator John Kennedy]

I was with him about a week before his debate with President Biden and Jake Tapper and Dana Bash and it was the two from CNN and Biden and I said, well, what do you think, Mr. President? He said, Kennedy, I don't know. I got Tapper, I got bashed. Bashed and I got Joe Biden. It's going to be two and a half to one. That's funny off the cuff. And I wouldn't, I am laughing so hard. He's two and a half to one. And then of course they had the infamous debate And President Biden just crumpled. But the pre. You know, I talk about President Trump in the book. I've got a different style from. Than him.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Sure. I told the President, so does everybody else.

[Senator John Kennedy]

So does everybody else. I mean, it's clear that the President's unfiltered. He. He grows anxious when he has an unexpressed thought. He just. He can't. I told him one time. He said, well, how do you like my tweets, Kennedy? And I said, you know, Mr. President, I got to be diplomatic here. I said, tweeting a little bit less would not cause brain damage. And he said, what? You don't like my tweets? I said, no, hold on.

[Ben Ferguson]

What year did you tell him? Because this could.

[Senator John Kennedy]

This could have been profound in his first term. And.

[Ben Ferguson]

Okay.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And I will say his second term, his tweets have gotten much more disciplined.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Yes.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

There's a very different discipline.

[Senator John Kennedy]

First term, he let it rip. And. And he.

[Ben Ferguson]

And. And. And we added, thank you for your attention to this matter. Like it's a completely different man and for you.

[Senator John Kennedy]

But he didn't get it. And I. He didn't know whether to be offended or what. And he said, what do you mean? I said, Look, Mr. President, look at this way. I like steak, but I don't like to eat eight steaks at one time. And he said, you don't like my tweets? I said, no, I didn't say that. And of course, it made no difference. He just.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

All right, now let me ask, growing up. You're growing up? Little town, Louisiana. Did you always know that? You want to be a lawyer?

[Senator John Kennedy]

No.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

You have your parents, lawyers, and lawyers in the family.

[Senator John Kennedy]

I care. My parents really emphasized education, Ted, just like yours. But when I wasn't studying, I cared about two things. I care about basketball and I cared about cheerleaders.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Are you a ball player? And did you play hoops in high school?

[Senator John Kennedy]

I played hoops.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

What position?

[Senator John Kennedy]

Forward. All right.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

How's jump shot? Ball handling?

[Senator John Kennedy]

Jump shot? Jump shot, man.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, you know, I still play twice a week.

[Senator John Kennedy]

I know you do. I've seen you come in the cloak room. He comes in the cloak room to vote, and he's all worked up and sweaty and he's beaten up on some. But, Cruz.

[Ben Ferguson]

Senator. I'm gonna advise you, Cruz, don't take the bait when he asks you to play, because I've already had a broken bone.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

It is true. We broke Ben's finger.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Cruise is a total ball.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

What I gotta ask you, Ben, so you broke your pinky. Where Exactly. Did you have your pinky stuck?

[Ben Ferguson]

Here's what I know. When I broke my pinky, we were at one of them highfalutin houses, and I thought about calling Kennedy, say, well, you represent me. Could have gotten me a really good settlement.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Yeah, it was a tech billionaire's house that you broke your pinky and said, and you didn't even get tape on it.

[Senator John Kennedy]

I would.

[Ben Ferguson]

Nothing. I got. I powered through like a real Danny.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Should have called me. We'd have gotten you a beach house out of this. We could have. I could have been handled the appeal. I'd take it to trial court. We might have gotten you two beach houses, man.

[Sponsor Representative (Burnham or Hillsdale College)]

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[Burnham Representative (Josh Sherrard)]

So, a Chicago woman was recently the victim of a home invasion that occurred in broad daylight when several men broke into her home while she was inside in the middle of the day. And it was all caught on video. So, while sitting in her kitchen, the homeowner began hearing strange noises coming from the front door. So she went to investigate and saw that intruders had made it inside her home, at which point she yelled that she'd called police to try and scare them off. Now, fortunately, in this case, it worked, and they promptly exited the house, and the victim and a neighbor actually chased intruders down the street while calling 911 while on the phone with 911. Dispatchers told the homeowner that police were on their way. However, it ended up taking place over four hours to reach the scene due to an overwhelming backlog of emergency calls. It was only sheer luck in this case that she wasn't hurt or killed.

[Sponsor Representative (Burnham or Hillsdale College)]

And this is where you asked the question is Burn is something that could have been used in that situation for home defense. And how could she have deployed it to keep herself safe and deter those attackers?

[Burnham Representative (Josh Sherrard)]

You know, absolutely. In this case, she lucked out and she was able to call their bluff and they ran off. But in many cases, that's not going to happen. Any kind of resistance has to be used to get those attackers out and to get you to safety. Burn a Max or kinetic rounds. Both would have allowed her the time to get out and get somewhere safe.

[Sponsor Representative (Burnham or Hillsdale College)]

It is really an incredible option. And I have a burnham, I have real handguns as well, but I always have a burner. And if you want to see what it can do to protect you and your family or a loved one that you know needs this, go to byrna by rna.com Again that's byrna. B y r n a.com Burna.com Right.

[Ben Ferguson]

Now I know you gotta run center soon, but I want to ask you one other question.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Sure, ask me anything you want.

[Ben Ferguson]

And it goes back to the book. When you write this book and you sit down to do it, who did you envision reading it? Is there some bigger purpose where you're like, I want to write this for the future generation. Was part of it? Just, I want to just tell my story and how I got to where I am today. What was it?

[Senator John Kennedy]

Here's what I did. I sat down with a handheld dictaphone at my kitchen table and I started dictating and I dictated, I dictated, I don't, I don't know how many hours, hundreds of hours. And then I had it transcribed and then I put it together and then I had an editor come in who looked at it and rearranged it and then I just started editing. And I was speaking to the same person that Ted and I both speak to when we do interviews, the average American. And I tried to speak plainly. I don't try to muddy the water to make it look deep. The American people don't have time for that. And I wanted them to understand that if you get mad, I can't help it. I have the right to remain silent, but God did not give me the ability. And some people are going to like it and some don't. But that's what the American people expect from their politicians today. And it's one of the reasons that, that Senator Schumer, who Ted and I both know, he, he's right now, he's got 30% approval rating. He's got a 60% disapproval rating. The other 10% won't pause their video game to answer the pollsters call. And, and Chuck is polling, he's polling right up there with clubbing baby seals. That's, I mean, but, but to be.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Fair, he's still above chlamydia.

[Senator John Kennedy]

He's still, he's still above it's margin. But because Chuck's been here so long, Ted, you know, he's been here so long, he sounds like Washington.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

So I will say it's interesting you and I have a very similar process, it sounds like, for writing a book, because that's very much the books I've written. And some of it is, it may be being a lawyer and having written briefs, that. That process of recording and telling stories. And my books, I just try to tell stories because that's how people communicate.

[Senator John Kennedy]

I've read a couple of your books. There's a difference between you and me, though. I've written one book. Ted's written about a squillion. Okay. But. But it's hard. I mean, I'm not.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

It is.

[Senator John Kennedy]

It is. It is a painful process, you know.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

All right, you're a kid. When does the idea of being a lawyer. What was it that made you say, hey, I. I can do that. I want to do that?

[Senator John Kennedy]

My dad was from a depression family in Oklahoma. He got a degree, worked his way through college in petroleum engineering, came to Louisiana to work in the oil fields, married my mom. I have three brothers. From day one, they drilled into us. Education, education, education. And it wasn't where you're going to go to college or when you're going to go to college. It was where.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Right.

[Senator John Kennedy]

And that was drilled in from day one. And I enjoyed college, but I started thinking about law school then. But. But I. I stalled and restalled it as long as I could. I mean, I spent four years in college, and I. Then I went three years in law school, and then I clerked for a federal judge and I tried to get a Supreme Court clerkship. I didn't. You did. And then I said, well, I'm not ready for the real world. I'm going back to school. I went back and got another law degree. At Oxford. Yep. And then finally I had, you know, I had to. I was out of money, you know, and I wanted to eat and live indoors, so I didn't want to live in a refrigerator box behind Outback, so I had to go to work for a living.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And, Ben, I know something that I know you don't know. I know the name of his old law partner.

[Ben Ferguson]

Who is that?

[Senator John Kennedy]

Who's that?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

So.

[Senator John Kennedy]

So.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

So he would practice his name, obviously, as John Kennedy, and his partner was Jose Canseco. And he'd walk in and it'd be John Kennedy and Jose Canseco here to see you.

[Senator John Kennedy]

That's a. They would double take one of my best friends. I was in a. For Louisiana, a big law firm, six or 80 haulers. And one of my good friends was Jose Canseco. And we'd go to meetings. That's Amazing, I'd say. I'm John Kennedy. This is Jose Canseco. We're here to see so and so. And they said they would say, you're here to see security, sir. True story.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

All right, so when did you get. When did you get the idea in your head you wanted to run for office? Was this something like, as a kid, you always wanted.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Oh, I always thought about it, but I was practicing all earning a good living. Louisiana politics was rough. I mean, it was rough. It was on. Yeah, it was under Governor Edwin Edwards. I wasn't part of his clique.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Who has my favorite political bumper sticker ever?

[Senator John Kennedy]

Yep.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And you know exactly where I'm going. Do you know. Do you know this, Ben? I don't know if you know this.

[Senator John Kennedy]

I do.

[Ben Ferguson]

I do not.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

So Edwin Edwards is running for governor against David Duke. Now, David Duke was a former grand wizard of the kkk.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, grand wizard, right.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

But Edwin Edwards was as corrupt. He was as crooked as a dog's hind legs. See, I'm trying to do this to keep up with John.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Pretty good, Ted.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And everyone knew he was corrupt. And so Edwin Edwards bumper sticker said, vote for the crook. It matters.

[Senator John Kennedy]

That's right.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And if you're running against a Klansman, that was a winning slogan. And then you know what? He was indicted and convicted of embezzlement or fraud or something.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Well, when the economy was in Louisiana, I mean, this was. Having a colorful governor was all fun and games. He was. He was a big. He was very promiscuous. He used to say, I give, they make. How did he put it? When I give blood, they use it to make Viagra. That was a. That was a. I always thought that was a pretty good. And. And there's a bumper sugar for it.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

That's a line they would have used about Strom Thurmond, too. You. And I didn't serve with Strom Thurmond, but by all accounts, that would have described him accurately.

[Senator John Kennedy]

And he was running for governor, I think, his third time, and he was way ahead in the polls. He was running against incumbent. And the press asked him, they said, you're going to win this race. And he said, well, let me put it this way. The only way I can lose this race in the last week is if I'm caught in bed with a live girl or a dead boy. And I thought that was pretty clever. But eventually, his past caught up to him, and we elected a reform governor named Buddy Romer. I supported him. He asked me to leave my practice, come to Baton Rouge. And I liked it. I was his legal counsel, and I stayed. And then I ran for office and got elected, and I ran for the Senate three times. Took me three times to get here. And I thought they left me for dead for a few times. Politically, I switched parties because the Democrat. I couldn't. I just couldn't be a Democrat anymore. And they all got mad at me and they tried to hurt me, but the mistake they made, they let me live. They never should have let me live. So I wanted. On the third time, and here we are, we're having fun.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

All right. Biggest surprises when you get to the Senate. Biggest surprise upside and biggest surprise downside.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Biggest surprise upside. You probably saw this. I came in wanting to gallop. You can't gallop in the Senate. You have to inch along. And at first, that frustrated me. Still does. But it's not altogether bad, because after a while, you realize the Senator's job is not just to advance good ideas, it's to kill bad ideas. And sometimes killing the bad ideas is more important than advancing the good ideas. That has been my biggest transformation in the Senate. But it, It. It's frustrating. Senator McConnell, who's your friend and mine, but Mitch. Mitch was the Majority leader, and I wasn't used to taking orders from another politician, and Mitch and I butted heads a few times. He butted heads with you?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Oh, yeah.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Mitch liked to run it from the top down. And I thought. I remember you and I talked when we passed President Trump's Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. We passed it through reconciliation. And Ted was an advocate of doing a second bill. Yep. And it just took a majority vote, no Democrats. And we. I backed him, and Mitch wouldn't do it, and we left so much good policy on the table.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

It remains the most politically indefensible decision I've ever seen.

[Senator John Kennedy]

And I hope we don't do it under Trump's second term.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And actually, John brought that up at lunch today.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Made that argument. And it's clearly. Look, it is our best avenue to win victories, and we should be focused on winning victories. Now, that being said, we got a lot done in that one. Big deal.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Sure. But we get a second bite at the end.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Exactly. And a third if we want it.

[Senator John Kennedy]

And why not take it?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Yep.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Why not take it? And we don't have to get. We don't have to get Democratic votes.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Yep.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Because I'm. I'm. I'm. You know, I think. I want to think the best of people, but I just think it's going to be hard to negotiate anything with the Democrats from here on out.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

They just hate Trump. They're so extreme right now.

[Senator John Kennedy]

They're just blinded by. By their. Their passion.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Yep.

[Ben Ferguson]

Senator, I'm going to. I'm afraid of Hitman from Louisiana. Your staff's telling me. We were supposed to wrap with you a few minutes ago, so I want to hold up the book again.

[Senator John Kennedy]

Oh, man. Thanks.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

All right, so let me tell everyone.

[Ben Ferguson]

Again, Know what to buy Book is.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

How to Test Negative for Stupid and why Washington Never Will. It is by John Kennedy. Not John F. Kennedy, but John Kennedy, the great United States Senator. The book is funny. It is interesting. It gives you stories behind the scenes of what's going on in the U.S. senate. John Kennedy rats out all his colleagues. He makes them embarrassed. He makes them curl up. Curl up. Chuck Schumer curled up in a ball in the closet and cried like a little girl when John Kennedy wrote this book. So you need to go to Amazon and buy it. And I will say, as I said before, John Kennedy is easily one of my favorite colleagues. He is right back in. Funny as hell. And he is smart as hell. A lot of people don't realize this man is dangerous and has, you know, he's an Oxford educated lawyer and with a Southern accent, particularly Yankees underestimate and be like, all right, he's got a Southern accent. He can't be all that bright.

[Senator John Kennedy]

You can't accuse me being self aware, not being self aware. I'm fully aware that my voice scares small children and sets off car alarms, but it's my voice. But thank you for having me, Ted. Thank you, Ben.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And I'm going to close. I'm going to close with my favorite Kennedyism, which was in a Judiciary Committee hearing. John Kennedy leaned forward into the microphone and he said, christmas tree ornaments and Jeffrey Epstein. Two things, you know, didn't hang themselves.

[Senator John Kennedy]

I love it.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

I was sitting there going, wait, this is at an open hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Did he really say that?

[Senator John Kennedy]

It was. I did. It was true. I'd read that joke somewhere. It seemed like a good idea at the time. Thank you, guys.

[Ben Ferguson]

Buy the book wherever you can. How to Test Negative for Stupid. Get it on Amazon. Don't forget, you can get this podcast Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Wherever you get your podcast, share it on social media. Senator Cruz and I will see you back here in a couple days and grab the book right after this as well.

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[Senator Ted Cruz]

To you.

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[Senator Ted Cruz]

Com.

[iHeart Radio Announcer]

This is an iheart podcast.