Weekly Review With Clay and Buck H1 - Obama Won't Be Indicted

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show Episode: Weekly Review With Clay and Buck H1 - Obama Won't Be Indicted
Release Date: August 9, 2025
Host/Authors: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton
Description: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics, and current events with intelligence and humor. This episode delves into the recent developments regarding a grand jury investigation into Obama-era officials and the implications surrounding potential indictments.

---

1. Introduction to the Grand Jury Probe

Timestamp: [02:50]
Clay Travis and Buck Sexton open the discussion by addressing the referral to the Department of Justice (DOJ) of names from the Russia collusion investigation. They highlight the impaneling of a grand jury to probe into Obama-era officials connected to the Russia collusion case.

Clay Travis:
“Prosecutors are starting that grand jury probe into the Obama era officials of the Russia collusion investigation.”
[02:50]

2. Legal Framework and Statute of Limitations

Timestamp: [04:00]
Buck Rubin introduces insights from Miranda Devine, suggesting that statute of limitations might hinder prosecuting crimes from a decade ago unless the conspiracy is ongoing.

Jamie Rubin:
“Statute of limitations issues that clearly would come up in some cases because five years, five years, when you're talking about something happened 10 years ago, that's not a tough call.”
[05:00]

Clay Travis:
“If they did a D.C. based grand jury, I think the odds of anybody inside of Obama's administration getting indicted for anything related to Russia, collusion or virtually zero.”
[06:16]

3. Location of the Grand Jury: DC vs. South Florida

Timestamp: [06:16]
The duo debates the significance of the grand jury's location, suggesting that a South Florida grand jury might have different inclinations compared to one in Washington D.C.

Clay Travis:
“Remember, this became an issue because initially Jack Smith tried to empanel the Florida classified documents case in D.C. and then ... moved it to South Florida.”
[07:10]

4. Challenges in Proving a Grand Conspiracy

Timestamp: [12:24]
Clay Travis elaborates on the difficulty of connecting disparate crimes into a single grand conspiracy, emphasizing that separate incidents like the Russia collusion and the Mar-a-Lago raid might not cohesively form a prosecutable conspiracy.

Clay Travis:
“I think that connecting all of those issues to argue it's one grand conspiracy is actually a challenging legal proposition.”
[12:24]

5. Caller Insights and Perspectives

Timestamp: [27:38]

• Mike from North Carolina:
  A 50-year law enforcement veteran expresses skepticism about successful prosecutions due to statute of limitations and the complexity of conspiracy charges.

  Mike:
  “Perjury will definitely be in play because once the conspiracy and the lies came out, they continue to push it while under oath.”
  [27:38]

• Roger from Astoria, Queens:
  Highlights the downfall of Obama-era officials, emphasizing political accountability over legal consequences.

  Roger:
  “This is showing the people just, you know, what type of political hacks they were.”
  [34:48]

• Ruth from Cape Coral, Florida:
  Raises questions about presidential immunity and the possibility of proving a grand conspiracy if the same individuals are involved in multiple efforts.

  Ruth:
  “If they have evidence showing that the same people perpetrated the conspiracy?”
  [38:52]

6. Presidential Immunity and Legal Protections

Timestamp: [23:57]
Clay Travis discusses the concept of presidential immunity, referencing Supreme Court decisions that shield presidents from certain types of legal actions.

Clay Travis:
“Obama is going to be protected by presidential immunity the same way that Trump was protected by presidential immunity.”
[09:42]

Buck Rubin supports this viewpoint, asserting that Obama is unlikely to face any criminal indictments.

Jamie Rubin:
“Obama is 99.999% not going to be criminally indicted over any of this.”
[10:36]

7. The Role of Perjury in Potential Charges

Timestamp: [43:27]
The hosts explore the possibility of perjury charges against Obama-era officials but acknowledge the challenges in proving such cases without concrete evidence.

Clay Travis:
“Perjury is really hard to prove, especially if you're dealing with someone who is actually...”
[29:00]

Jamie Rubin:
“You could give examples where perjury was clear, like Bill Clinton, but it's different in these cases.”
[30:02]

8. Political Accountability vs. Legal Proceedings

Timestamp: [35:23]
Discussion shifts to the broader theme of political accountability, suggesting that even in the absence of legal repercussions, public acknowledgment of wrongdoing serves as a form of justice.

Jamie Rubin:
“This is the political accountability part of it, which I think I do think is important and valid.”
[35:23]

Clay Travis:
“This could occur... a public reckoning.”
[37:14]

9. Public Perception and Media Influence

Timestamp: [37:06]
Clay Travis raises concerns about how public figures, like Obama, would be perceived if indictments were announced, especially among MSNBC viewers or New York Times readers.

Clay Travis:
“What is the average MSNBC viewer or New York Times reader going to think if suddenly indictments come down for lies associated with Russia collusion?”
[37:06]

Jamie Rubin:
“They will be completely blind, shot out of nowhere like lightning.”
[37:13]

10. Conclusion and Future Outlook

Timestamp: [48:09]
Clay Travis concludes by mentioning upcoming topics, including subpoenas related to the Epstein case from James Comer, and emphasizes the importance of focusing on major issues like the economy, border security, and Trump’s actions.

Clay Travis:
“Big picture, economy, border crime, Trump is delivering on all three fronts. We'll talk about that when we come back.”
[48:09]

---

Key Takeaways

• Grand Jury Probe: A grand jury is investigating Obama-era officials for potential involvement in the Russia collusion conspiracy.
• Legal Challenges: Statute of limitations and the location of the grand jury (D.C. vs. South Florida) are critical factors influencing the likelihood of indictments.
• Presidential Immunity: Both Obama and Trump are shielded by presidential immunity, making criminal indictments highly improbable.
• Perjury as a Potential Charge: Proving perjury is challenging without concrete evidence, though it remains a theoretical possibility.
• Political vs. Legal Accountability: Even without legal ramifications, there is a push for political accountability and public acknowledgment of wrongdoing.
• Public Perception: The announcement of indictments could significantly impact public opinion, particularly among audiences loyal to mainstream media outlets.
• Future Discussions: The show promises to cover additional legal developments, including the Epstein case, and the broader political landscape.

---

Notable Quotes

• Clay Travis:
  “Obama is going to be protected by presidential immunity the same way that Trump was protected by presidential immunity.”
  [09:42]

• Jamie Rubin:
  “Obama is 99.999% not going to be criminally indicted over any of this.”
  [10:36]

• Buck Rubin:
  “This is the political accountability part of it, which I think I do think is important and valid.”
  [35:23]

• Caller Mike:
  “Perjury will definitely be in play because once the conspiracy and the lies came out, they continue to push it while under oath.”
  [27:38]

---

This summary encapsulates the critical discussions and viewpoints presented by Clay Travis and Buck Sexton in the episode, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the ongoing legal and political debates surrounding the grand jury investigation into Obama-era officials and the broader implications for American politics.

Transcript

[Christiane Amanpour]

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[Christiane Amanpour]

I'm Christiana Manpour and I've been on the front lines and interviewing world leaders for more than 30 years.

[Jamie Rubin]

And I'm Jamie Rubin, a former advisor to both Presidents Clinton and Biden.

[Christiane Amanpour]

We were married for 20 years and divorced for seven. Now we've joined forces on the X Files to make sense of how we ended up with no world order. Listen to Christiana Manpour presents the X files on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Clay Travis]

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[Jamie Rubin]

Visit puretalk.com buck to get your free phone today and to switch to my Wireless company, that's PureTalk.com Buck America's wireless company, Pure Talk. Welcome everybody. Tuesday edition of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton show kicks off right now and we've got a lot to discuss, including the referral to the DOJ of those names from the Russia collusion soft coup attempt of years past and now the impaneling of a grand jury. A grand jury is now in the mix on this. We shall give you the latest on it and where we think this is going. Prosecutors are starting that grand jury probe into the Obama era officials of the Russia collusion investigation. Interesting note, Clay, you know, I talked to our friend Miranda Devine on also our friend legitimately, these are friends of ours, are also our friend Will Kane show yesterday. Were you on Jesse last night? Was that right where I see you were somewhere, you Hannity, you were on someone's show last night.

[Clay Travis]

Oh, God.

[Jamie Rubin]

I don't even, I don't know one of them.

[Clay Travis]

I was on. I was on what?

[Jamie Rubin]

I don't know. Will.

[Clay Travis]

I was on Will show too.

[Jamie Rubin]

Oh, okay. Will show. I saw a clip. Okay. There we go. Yeah. So yeah, point, point being we're talking about this. Clay is Clay is omnipresent. You know what I mean? Those jackets that he wears, you guys have demanded more.

[Clay Travis]

I'm on Fox News has got me basically on every day somewhere. So when you asked me, I was like, I couldn't even remember there for a sec. Where on America's Newsroom this morning.

[Jamie Rubin]

Okay, I saw you there and then your rules show up. My point being he's talking about the Pam Bondi stuff. I'm talking about the Pam Bondi stuff. Everybody's talking about what's going to happen here in this Russia era Russia collusion investigation. And part of it is I spoke to Miranda Devine on Will's show and she said something I thought was interesting and maybe we should ping Miranda to come talk to us more about this because she raised this and I hadn't heard this before. So I'm just putting this out there you know, that's the thing. You get to do a hit with some, some great people. You know, a hit is a R shorthand for TV appearance, if anyone's wondering. And you sometimes will even learn things in the process. She said Clay, that the statute of limitations issues that clearly would come up in some cases because five years, five years, when you're talking about something happened 10 years ago, that's not a tough call. Ten year statute of limitations also applies to some things, federal crimes that would have run. But if the conspiracy was continued and there was cover up and it even endured during some of the Trump years and beyond, perhaps into the Biden years, that would. Now, I hadn't heard this before, but she, she indicated this on tv, that that could be a part of all of this because short of that, I look at this, Clay and I say I don't understand what the statutory framework would be for the charges yet. I'm not a lawyer, but Clay's a lawyer. We're going to get into this. I think the grand jury probe into Obama officials is an interesting step. I am still not convinced it is likely that any of them will face even with a grand jury looking at them, criminal charges. But I'm certainly open to and know I could be wrong. What do you see? Given where this is right now, there.

[Clay Travis]

Are so many different angles that you can analyze this report from. The one that I think is paramount and matters more than anything else is where is the grand jury going to be empaneled. And I haven't heard this widely discussed because to me it's the only thing that matters because if they did a D.C. based grand jury, I think the odds of anybody inside of Obama's administration getting indicted for anything related to Russia, collusion or virtually zero. And so I think you would have to find a hook to move the grand jury out of D.C. and put it somewhere else. Now, what I've heard being discussed is because of the Mar a Lago raid, maybe the grand jury is going to be empaneled in somewhere in South Florida as the Mar A Lago case was. Here is the challenge with that.

[Jamie Rubin]

Do you think I could put on like one of those glasses with mustache outfits and be like, hello, fellow citizens, put me on this grand jury?

[Clay Travis]

Well, it would be funny because in theory you could be impaneled as a South Florida resident on one of these grand juries, but I imagine that you would be stricken from the jury pool quite quick.

[Jamie Rubin]

I would imagine so too. Yes.

[Clay Travis]

But here is the challenge. So one, everything else All I think that matters is where's the grand jury located? Two, is there a. Is the grand jury, if it were located in Florida, is that a valid grand jury? And that's where you try to argue, oh, this is all part of one grand conspiracy to get Trump, and it includes even the Mar A Lago investigation and raid from the FBI. I would imagine that almost immediately you would see where the grand jury is located as a major part of any defense that was offered. And remember, this became an issue because initially Jack Smith tried to empanel the Florida classified documents case in D.C. and then up at the last moment and recognized that he had a jurisdiction issue, a venue issue, and he suddenly moved it to South Florida. This is me being a legal nerd and telling you where this case is headed. Part of me wonders, Buck, whether this is partly just a exercise in following through on promises. And if the jury declines to indict politically, the Trump team can just throw up their hands and say, Democrats won't indict Democrats for committing crimes. We did everything we could in this case. And then they think they win politically because it retains the issue here, but they did everything they could do. From a legal process perspective, does that make sense? And by the way, we can take calls on this, because I know it's complicated, but I think you've got the number one question that has to be resolved is where is this grand jury going to be? And for those of you out there that don't know, usually indictments are handed out by a grand jury. And if you have a grand jury in D.C. that is 96% or 95% or whatever the heck the percentage is. Maybe 97% inclined to favor Democrats. I don't believe they're going to indict Hillary or former Obama officials. Continue.

[Jamie Rubin]

If it's in D.C. there's, there's no, there's, I would say, no chance. I mean, which is when, like 99%.

[Clay Travis]

No, it's just a political move because they can say, we took this to the grand jury, but the D.C. grand jury would not indict. Remember, I give credit to the president because he's also said this, but we were the first show that I heard even talking about it. Obama is going to be protected by presidential immunity the same way that Trump was protected by presidential immunity. And there are people out there that will tell you that that's not true. And maybe you listen to some of them. I believe they are wrong. And I believe they are getting you fired up with the idea of, oh, Obama's gonna face charges. Obama, I would be stunned beyond belief if he faced charges. And if he did, he would immediately defend himself by saying, hey, the same Supreme Court precedent that applied for Trump related to 2020 also applies for me.

[Jamie Rubin]

There's no chance in my mind, zero Obama's going to face any. I'm just being honest with all of you. I don't think anybody should think that that's going to happen. It's not. It's just not going to happen. He has immunity while he's president and trying to prove something after people can write in, well, what if we find something? Well, you know, what if a million different things you could say, but the reality is that's not, I think going to now showing doing what Tulsi Gabbard has done and showing the way that the Obama officials were clearly being disingenuous and dishonest in all of this is important for people to see. The other problem is with a lot of this stuff you're going to run into anytime it's an interpretation of analysis, trying to say it's criminal is going to be very hard. Even if anybody should have known, I mean, you saw this with the FISA warrants they ran against Carter, against Papadopoulos, Carter Page, FBI stuff, they can say, well, maybe it wasn't a lock, but we thought that this was good enough that we should use our authority for the following reasons. Now there was that one guy who lied. Now we're going back into the. This is a thing I've been covering for a decade, right? So I gotta go back in the memory banks here. There was that lawyer who lied and changed evidence so that they could get DEFISA on. I think it was Carter Page and removed that he had been in good standing with the intelligence community previously, something along those lines. He was prosecuted and nothing actually ended up happening to him. So just remember, I mean he did not get punished at all. So it's. This is a challenge. And it was in D.C. this is the point. It's in D.C. to Clay's point, if they bring it in South Florida or somewhere else, then things can get a little bit spicier. That could be a little bit more interesting.

[Clay Travis]

Here is another legal weeds analysis. I question whether all of these things are connected. So in order to have a conspiracy and argue that it's an ongoing conspiracy, I actually think there are different crimes and I think they have beginning and end dates. I think that what happened with Russia is one crime, right? The Russia collusion, the hoax, everything associated with that. And it lasted for several years. And I think that is one thing. I actually think that's different than the Mar A Lago raid and also the 2020 investigations and all those things. So I think connecting all of those issues to argue it's one grand conspiracy is actually a challenging legal proposition. Because usually, and I'll just give you an example, if you and I, buck, engaged in a conspiracy to rob a bank and then the bank robbery ended up happening one day and that was a finite finished scenario, and then we engaged in an additional conspiracy and we decided to steal a boat, I would argue that those are, you know, hopefully we don't do either of those things, but I would argue that those are two distinct crimes. And our partnership, even though we're involved in the same thing, would not necessarily be a conspiracy because they have an open and shut closed date. I think that's going to be a challenge to argue that all of this is interconnected matters because that would then give the. That that's the hook that allows the jurisdiction to be outside of DC because otherwise I think most people would say, yeah, the Russia collusion case should be D.C. and, and by the way, I think the 2020 investigation into the election would be D.C. but mar a Lago is different. So I see those as distinct.

[Jamie Rubin]

I also think part of the frustration, and that's why I believe it's necessary for us to all set our expectations within what is likely. Like I said, I could, Pam Bondi, there could be an announcement, there could be a press conference in a couple of, in a couple of weeks, whenever. Hey, you know this guy, that guy who worked for Obama is facing falling charges. I'm not saying that's impossible or not on the table, I think it's highly unlikely. But I think that part of the frustration and it's unlikely for procedural reasons. Right. I don't, I don't need anyone to email me and remind me I lived, eat, ate, rather ate and breathed Russia, collusion, conspiracy, for years of my life, are doing a solo radio show. Before I teamed up with Clay, this was day in and day out, they were spying, they lied. There's nothing with Russia. So trust me, I'm well aware of all the nasty and evil things they did. But we have a system and within that legal system, there are some challenges to going after these individuals even knowing what they did. Now, I think part of the frustration on this, Clay, is we've all seen that when the shoe is on the other foot and when Democrats are in a position to do so, whether it's the Mar A Lago raid, or the FISA warrants or the special counsels or the, or the impeachments or the four criminal prosecutions or all the. They abused their authority in bad faith as a political weapon against their opponents. And the real question for maga, I think in this moment, for everybody who supports the President, is do we play within this system as boy scouts, no offense, boy scouts, or do the brass knuckles come out in what we can justify, what we can get away with justifying we do through the system, instead of operating in the best possible faith within the system? I think that's a real discussion or a real thought process that's going on here. Meaning, you know, do you bring a charge even if you know you can't prove it because you're going to make them lawyer up and mess them up and the process is the punishment? That remains to be seen.

[Clay Travis]

I think that's important too, because you could get indictments and then the indictments are, the underlying crimes are going to be litigated for years. Remember, they got indictments on all the Mar A Lago raids. And then before Trump won reelection, the judge down there tossed that entire case, I believe, In July of 2024, if I remember correctly. So my concern would be, just because you get an indictment doesn't mean that you've got a valid upstanding going to with withstand all of the criminal challenges that will be coming. So this is complicated. We'll take calls. We're not talking about what should necessarily happen as much as the challenges that have to be followed in order to put something in place. I think beyond a shadow of a doubt, they have to do it in Florida if they're going to even hope to get an indictment.

[Jamie Rubin]

And I also think that as all this unfolds, I get it. A lot of people want an eye for an eye attitude now that Trump and his team runs the system. It's an, you know, we used to, I'll just point this out, conservatives, Clay used to be, we don't want the other side to get canceled. We just don't want anyone to be canceled. You know what, that didn't work until all of a sudden you had the Bud Light effect. Until you had people that were suffering consequences for their, their bad actions. Yes, they kept doing it and doing it and doing it. An eye for an eye within the system. As long as it's within the system and you can justify it, I think some people want to see that. And that's where a lot of the frustration comes and I'm aware of that. All right, look, every day, thousands of women across our nation are contending with an unplanned pregnancy with so few options in front of them. At least that's what they're told. But thanks to preborn, there are options. There's hope. The preborn clinics offer life and support for that child and that mother. And they have a level of understanding and compassion for pregnant women that is just so incredible. And it's saving so many lives day in and day out. Over 350,000 babies have been saved through this life giving work. Mothers like Valeria who thought she didn't deserve to have a child until her search led her to a preborn network clinic. Now she has a beautiful baby daughter. This is happening every day. That's why your support is so critical. Just $28 a month can save a life. That's the price of a preborn ultrasound, which they give to any pregnant woman who walks in for free. They introduce mother to child through that ultrasound and then the conversation about life becomes so much more easier. Dial pound 250, say the keyword baby. That's pound 250. Say the keyword baby or go to preborn.com buck preborn.com B U C K.

[Clay Travis]

Saving America One thought at a time. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Christiane Amanpour]

Presented by iheart I'm Christiane Amanpour and I've been on the front lines and interviewing world leaders for more than 30 years.

[Jamie Rubin]

And I'm Jamie Rubin, a former advisor to both Presidents Clinton and Biden.

[Christiane Amanpour]

We were married for 20 years and divorced for seven. Now we've joined four forces on the X Files to make sense of how we ended up with no world order. Listen to Christiane Amanpour presents the X files on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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[Clay Travis]

Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all of you rolling with us. We got a ton of you weighing in with VIP emails. Maybe we can run into some of these and a lot of people saying if Obama. Here's Michael and we'll get into some of this. If Obama can't be prosecuted, can he be called to testify under oath? No. Criminal liability? No. Fifth Amendment. Seems like he must testify truthfully on pain of perjury. You could still take the Fifth Amendment.

[Jamie Rubin]

Yeah.

[Clay Travis]

I mean, this is, I've seen people saying, oh, if you can't be prosecuted, you can't, I mean, you could still have to be sued civilly. Like, there are lots of ways that you could be liable for what you say in some way in court. So again, I just think that a lot of you are chasing this idea of Obama's going to walk out in handcuffs because there are people who have sold this idea.

[Jamie Rubin]

I know. And I just, they're being, they're being dishonest. Sorry to just, they're being dishonest with their audience. Ok. I'm not even, I'm not going to name some names. They know Obama's not going to get arrested. They know Obama's not going to be prosecuted, but they know that it's going to cause a lot of online clicks. I don't like that behavior. I think that that shows a disrespect for the people who give you their time. Obama is 99.999% not going to be criminally indicted over any of this. He can't be, he cannot be.

[Clay Travis]

Trump. Trump said it. I give credit to Trump for pointing out again, the Supreme Court that they claimed was rigged by Trump has given all presidents expansive protection, Democrat, Republican, Independent, all to for both past and present actions to come. We'll take some of your calls. We'll read some more of these emails. In the meantime, two of my three boys have cell phones. The youngest does not. We let him communicate via a rapid radio, which is great. These are a lot of fun. If you remember being a kid, maybe you had like the old GI Joe radios and you ran around with them. It's a great, easy way to communicate with a kid without having to worry about them being able to get on the Internet. It's also good football seasons coming up. Maybe you're going to be in a crowded tailgate situation. Maybe a lot of cell phone networks are going to be overloaded. Rapid Radios can find a way to communicate because they search all of the available networks. They get you hooked up. Also works great in times of catastrophe. No setup required. Pull them out of the box, press a button, boom, you're ready to go. Rapidradios.com to save 60% off. That's Rapidradios.com get hooked up.

[Jamie Rubin]

Today I welcome back into Clay and Buck. We're talking about the impaneling of a grand jury to look into the Russia collusion conspiracy that has spanned a decade now and was really the original ultra dirty trick used against Trump to try to stop him before MAGA could even get going. It was meant to, you know, smother MAGA with a pillow. It was really an insidious effort using the media elements of the deep state within the intelligence community and yes, the White House in the control of the Obama regime at the time. And we're just trying to tell you where this stands now, where it's likely to go. And with that in mind, let's dive into some of these emails and some of these calls. Clay, we have Mike in North Carolina. He's a caller. Right. Let's hear from Mike. What's going on?

[Caller]

Hey fellas, thanks a lot. You guys are doing a great job.

[Jamie Rubin]

Thank you.

[Caller]

I am almost a 50 year veteran of law enforcement. I've got lots of contacts that are federal prosecutors that have wrote that have risen to just about the highest position short of Pam Bondi's office. And I've discussed this whole issue with them and it's not good. So everybody probably shouldn't get their hopes up too high. The statute of limitations is going to be a problem once they get into court because they don't believe that the recent acts clause in the conspiracy will, will hold up. I don't think that they can Use it. RICO is going to be lacking the myriad of minor crimes. Minor, but the lesser crimes. And wire fraud is probably going to be a real tough one to do, too. The good point is, is that perjury will definitely be in play because once, once the conspiracy and the lies came out, they continue to push it while under oath. So that's a good thing.

[Clay Travis]

Thank you for that. Thank you for the call. Let me, let me dive into this a little bit, Buck, and I'll start in reverse because he finished with perjury. Perjury is really hard to prove. It is just really hard to prove, especially if you're dealing with someone who is actually. And I'll go back to, you know, that depends on what the meaning of the word is is. For those of you who remember the Clinton era, you know, remember when, well.

[Jamie Rubin]

He committed perjury, but that's okay. He actually committed perjury. Right.

[Clay Travis]

But the way that he would answer questions, he said, you know, there is no relationship there. There are lots of angles where you're able to dodge around. The only reason, by the way, Bill Clinton got caught for perjury, correct me if I'm. Is because Monica Lewinsky saved the dress. And they were able to prove, yeah.

[Jamie Rubin]

I did not have a sexual relationship with that woman. I mean, he was. He was a liar. He committed perjury. Black letter, clear, obvious perjury. But I could give you.

[Clay Travis]

But only, I think, because she kept that dress. If that dress had not existed, I think it would have been hard to prove. It would have been a he said, she said. And it would have been hard to prove whether or not Monica Lewinsky was being honest or he was, I will.

[Jamie Rubin]

Say so, a great example of somebody who has not faced any charges and will not face any charges despite being a liar. But he's a creature of the bureaucracy, is Fauci. Everything he says, he goes, you know, the data was coming from multiple sources. And I looked at this and I looked at that, and it was complicated. And it was. If someone can turn your brain to mushroom with kind of vague non answers on, it's very hard to get them with perjury unless you have a thing. I brought this up in the context of counterterrorism cases. Why did guys who were. And it was guys who were raising money for Al Qaeda or, you know, bought a weapon illegally for a guy who was an Anwar al Awlaki sympathizer, things like that. Why did they get nailed on perjury charges? Because they would. The investigators, usually FBI, the investigators would sit down with them and ask them answers to questions they already knew and hammer them on a few times. And they didn't realize because they didn't have a lawyer with them. It's very illegal to lie to the FBI about whether you bought explosives material for somebody or something like that. Right. So even if you couldn't prove the criminal terrorist conspiracy, you had them dead to rights on the lie. And then they end up pleading and they take for five years or, you know, seven years with the terrorism enhancement, something like that. You're not going to get that with these guys. This is got to remember, you know, I know that we think of them as, as bumbling buffoons and they are at some level, but they're also creatures, Clay, of the intelligence community and the bureaucracy. People like Brennan and Clapper. They've been mumbling through testimony for as long as I've been alive. This is what these guys do. So thinking that they're going to say, you know, oh, I'm telling a big obvious lie. You can prove, maybe you get them on this, but very unlikely you haven't. We haven't got them on it yet.

[Clay Travis]

I would also usually perjury has a very set statute of limitations and much of the testimony relating to Russia collusion, I believe would be past the perjury.

[Jamie Rubin]

It's all five years. It's all that perjury is all five years. And I just say this, people are saying now, put them through the process and get them to lie. They don't have to testify. Everything will be through lawyers. They're not more, they're not. I mean, I say things sometimes like they're, you know, there's different levels of moron. But you're not going to get John Brennan to perjure himself when he doesn't even have to testify about one of these matters. You know, this is, we just need to keep this in the realm of reality a little bit. That's, that's what I think is important. I mean, people, by the way, a lot of people calling in Clay, they, you know what? And this, this I get. They just want the process to be the punishment.

[Clay Travis]

I understand there is a. Let me say this, by the way, on the conspiracy element. When I was in criminal law class, we had a great professor, Don hall, and he used to say, this is the reality inside of criminal prosecutions. They will say, boy, we don't have him on hardly anything. Let's just get them on a conspiracy.

[Jamie Rubin]

Right?

[Clay Travis]

So this is a very broad based charge. My concern on the conspiracy, again this is where we started the show is how do you locate the conspiracy charges in Florida? The only way to do that with the Russia collusion case is to argue it's one grand conspiracy. I think that's a very hard putt to sink. So my concern is getting Russia collusion charges to me would almost certainly require a D.C. grand jury, which I don't think a D.C. grand jury is willing to indict. So you have to get it to Florida, but then you get the challenge of is the conspiracy actually the appropriate venue in Florida. I understand this is complicated, but I'm trying to tell you where we are headed from a legal process and procedure, and this is why it's complicated. Now, to your point, Buck, some people are just like, screw it, Bring the charges, get the story out there. Who cares what happens?

[Jamie Rubin]

This is the eye for an eye approach, which, by the way, I understand, like, I'm not. I'm not discounting it. I'm just saying that that's a different thing than. I think we'll be able to take this all the way, get criminal convictions that will be upheld on appeal and that people are going to go to prison. That's a different thing than screw it. Let's just make these guys pay whatever price we can. We know that they're scumbags. That's also. That's also a valid philosophical position. Let's get Roger in Astoria, Queens. What's going on, Roger?

[Caller]

Hey, guys, you just stole my thunder there. Oh, what I was going to say is. What I was going to say is I think it's. What's going on now is a success. You know, you've got Obama, you've got Comey, you got Brennan. And to them, their egos are so large that, you know, they want to be thought of as gods. And this is bringing them down. This is showing the people just, you know, what type of political hacks they were. And, you know.

[Jamie Rubin]

Yeah, that's the. Thank you, Roger. This is the political. Yeah, this is the political accountability part of it, which I think I do think is important and valid. So thank you for calling in on that. I think that's clay. I think that's real. The more people know how gross and underhanded these efforts were, it stays with them longer. And some of these people still think they should have a say. I mean, certainly Obama does in our public discourse and in national elections.

[Clay Travis]

I also think this is important to build on what he said about the process and having some sort of public hearing on this and a reckoning for lack of a better way to say it, you know, when Trump got charged, we told all of you for months, they're going to charge him. This is coming. We don't think it's legitimate, but we're laying out all of the different parameters associated with it. On the left, if charges come down, does that audience have any idea that there's enough legitimacy for charges to be brought here? Because they've been told all of Russia collusion was true. They've been told everything that Tulsi Gabbard said is made up. There's no legitimacy to it whatsoever. You guys, meaning everybody listening to us right now, you were super well informed. We covered it aggressively on New York City, on Atlanta, on south Florida, on D.C. and we really kind of told you where we were headed, what was likely to come. I don't think any of you were shocked by what you saw transpire there. What is the average MSNBC viewer or New York Times reader going to think if suddenly indictments come down for lies associated with Russia collusion? I think that's a real. Now they're probably going to say, oh, this is unprecedented, this is a predator.

[Jamie Rubin]

They'll say it's invalid. But I think the point you're making is they will be completely blind, shot out of nowhere like lightning.

[Clay Travis]

This could occur.

[Jamie Rubin]

Yeah, yeah, I think. I think that's right. Greg in Orlando, Florida. What's going on, Greg?

[Caller]

TRUCK DRIVER so my favorite time of the day is 12 to 3 here.

[Jamie Rubin]

In Florida, but we love our truck drivers. Thank you, Greg.

[Caller]

No problem. What's that quote? All stares. Love and war. I think it should be love, war and politics. I think we should go blow to blow with them. And if we can't get them legally, at least we at least try to get them on accountability a little bit more. And like Clay saying, bring the light to what they're doing, more people will know. And if we can't get them legally, at least morally and ethically, people have a little bit bigger open eyes and realize what they've done. And remember that with future elections and anything else that comes up, I think.

[Clay Travis]

That'S a great call. And I think that's really what you should expect and hope to have occurring here is just a public reckoning. Even if we don't get a criminal court reckoning, because I'm telling you, this is going to get bogged down. By the way, a lot of three and $4,000 an hour criminal defense attorneys in D.C. buck that are just rubbing their hands with glee. Cause they want charges to come down. Because you know who the real winner here is? Criminal defense lawyers. Because Democrats are going to pay them tens of millions of dollars in legal defense fees that all their rich benefactors, the Soroses of the world, are going to fund. And those guys are just like, it's bonus season, baby. I'm going to go buy a new house. I'm telling you right now. This is exactly the conversations they're having.

[Jamie Rubin]

Ruth, in Cape Coral, Florida. A lot of Florida representatives, representation, rather, on today's show. What's going on? Ruth?

[Caller]

Hi, good afternoon, Clay and Buck. Yeah, I was calling about presidential immunity, but before I get into my point on that, just wanted to make a quick observation about grand conspiracy. You were indicating that you felt that the parts of the grand conspiracy were all separate. But I think if they have evidence showing that the same people coordinated all these efforts.

[Jamie Rubin]

Just to be clear, Clay thinks that it's very hard to prove that. I'm Buck, he's Clay, he thinks it's very hard to prove the grand conspiracy all ties together. So you're saying you think it'll be easier than. Than he maybe thinks if.

[Caller]

If they have evidence showing that the same people perpetrated the conspiracy?

[Clay Travis]

That is, I think my argument with that is, let me just say, like, Barack Obama was definitely involved in the Russia investigation and collusion. I don't think Barack Obama was involved in the decision for the FBI to raid the Department of Justice. Right. So, yes, sorry to raid Mar A Lago. He was not in office at that point. So for him to be involved in that, I think it's hard to have conspirators that are part of a conspiracy for one conspiracy and not for another. And so I think it's separate.

[Jamie Rubin]

Ruth, you had another point, though. We got only about 30 seconds, but go for it.

[Caller]

Yes, I do. I do. Okay. With absolute presidential immunity. There were two parts to that Supreme Court decision. One was absolute immunity, the other was presumed immunity, and they kicked it back to the lower courts so that they would have to determine which were official acts and which were not. But if you remember, it was one of the liberal justices, Ketanji, Brown, Kagan or Sotomayor, that said, oh, what if he ordered somebody to go out and kill somebody? You know, blah, blah, blah.

[Jamie Rubin]

So you're saying that this wouldn't be covered under official acts?

[Caller]

I am saying, yes. I am saying they have some emails right now, as far as I understand, that the Russians had hacked into either the DNC or Hillary's computer that show that Obama and Hillary knew that they were contriving the Russia conspiracy, and that is not an official president. Presidential.

[Jamie Rubin]

Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. Thank you. Thank you, Ruth. I don't think that there's any Obama emails where he's like, hey, those fake emails, let's pin them on Trump. Now, I'm not saying that he didn't do it. I'm just saying I don't think there's any emails that will show it with that level of clarity. Here's the problem, Clay. Any conversations that Obama as president at the time is having with the FBI director, with the CIA director, any of that is going to be considered under his official duty in terms of decisions made within their purview of surveillance, of contact with the press, all of that, you're never going to get around that.

[Clay Travis]

What Ruth said is there was a hypothetical. My recollection is, what if the president just decided he wanted to assassinate someone? Could he.

[Jamie Rubin]

If the president killed a maid in the Oval Office because he was in a bad mood, that's not an official act. That's clearly not covered. But talking to the FBI director about surveillance, that's going to be covered, or.

[Clay Travis]

Ordering Seal Team 6 to take out somebody in a foreign country, arguably that's within the presidential provinces, too, right? So I think Obama just, you got to take him off the table. It's unlikely to happen.

[Jamie Rubin]

I know it's. People don't. You know, I get it. It's frustrating to hear, but I'm just telling you the truth. Clay sees it the same way. If we're wrong, we will show up on the air and Maya Culpa and, you know, we'll take our lumps. Look, part of my health journey has involved this right here. I'm holding it up on the video. You can see chalk daily. I've got it in my hand here. Boost free and total testosterone. Contains 400500 mega milligrams rather prima v shilajit and supports lean muscle mass. This stuff is awesome. I take it every day. I've got it here on my desk. Doing the show. Proper supplementation along with diet and exercise is critical for your health. And chalk is there for you. The male vitality stack, by the way, that's where I would start. It helps with so many things. Energy, drive and yes, boosting Testosterone. Go to chalk.com today. See what they've got. Choq.com get set up like I am. Massive discount when you use my name buck as your promo code. Go to chalk. Choq.com use promo code.

[Clay Travis]

Buck Patriots Radio hosts a couple of regular guys, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

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[Ice Cube]

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[Christiane Amanpour]

I'm Christiane Amanpour and I've been on the front lines and interviewing world leaders for more than 3030 years.

[Jamie Rubin]

And I'm Jamie Rubin, a former advisor to both Presidents Clinton and Biden.

[Christiane Amanpour]

We were married for 20 years and divorced for seven. Now we've joined forces on the X Files to make sense of how we ended up with no World Order. Listen to Christiana Manpour Presents the X files on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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[Buck Sexton]

The country, everyday Americans are standing up to expand freedom and opportunity not just for themselves, but for their neighbors and communities. They're small business owners, parents, farmers and local leaders, people who are pushing back against government overreach and showing what's possible when liberty is protected and individuals get involved. I'm David Fromm, host of the American Potential Podcast where we bring these stories to life. We don't just talk about policy solutions. Each week we share the impact of how these solutions benefit everyday Americans. Because behind every issue is an individual, a family or a community that's been impacted reminding us that policy becomes personal. So whether you're passionate about keeping more of your hard earned money, expanding school choice or cutting red tape, you'll hear from the people making a difference as they share their stories. Listen now to American Potential on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube or wherever you get your podcast.

[Clay Travis]

Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. Rolling through and having some fun with all of you. We'll take some more of your call calls as we continue through the program next hour. Sorry Buck, there are subpoenas that have gone out in the Epstein case from James Comer. We will tell you a bit about those. Everything basically is in the legal process at this point in time and what I would say to you is don't miss sometimes the larger scale successes for the individual day to day storylines because one reason that this is all happening is because the economy, border crime, Trump's rolling on and so it feels sometimes like there are bright, shiny distractions that are occupying everybody's attention. But I think big picture, economy, border crime, Trump is delivering on all three fronts. We'll talk about that when we come back. And the latest on the subpoenas going out from Washington D.C. to the Clintons and more related to Epstein here on Clay and Buck.

[Ice Cube]

Ice Cube's Big Three is the surprise hit of the summer. This Saturday, 4pm Eastern on CBS, with playoff elimination on the line, the most physical, fiercest and competitive basketball in the world. Miami's Michael Beasley and Lance Stevenson must win to make the playoffs, and breakout star Dwight Howard of the the LA Riot will battle Gary Payton's Boston squad in a do or die match for both teams. Six teams are allowed for four spots and all must win. There's no crying in the big three and the no hold spot action starts Saturday at 4pm Eastern, 1pm Pacific.

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[Christiane Amanpour]

I'm Christiane Amanpour and I've been on the front lines and interviewing world leaders for more than 30 years.

[Jamie Rubin]

And I'm Jamie Rubin, a former advisor to both Presidents Clinton and Biden.

[Christiane Amanpour]

We were married for 20 years and divorced for seven. Now we've joined forces on the X Files to make sense of how we ended up with no world order. Listen to Christiana Manpur presents the X files on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts sharing.

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[Christiane Amanpour]

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