Weekly Review With Clay and Buck H2 - KY Sen. Rand Paul

Summary

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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show – Weekly Review H2: KY Sen. Rand Paul

Date: March 21, 2026
Hosts: Clay Travis, Buck Sexton
Guest: Senator Rand Paul (R-KY)
Main Theme:
A deep dive into the ongoing feud between Senators Rand Paul and Markwayne Mullin, the latest in US-Iran/Israel tensions, and key conservative perspectives on current events, including border policy, political violence, and election reforms.

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Clay and Buck dissect high-stakes current events with their trademark blend of incisive analysis and humor. The centerpiece is an exclusive, pointed interview with Senator Rand Paul, focusing on Markwayne Mullin’s controversial DHS nomination and their heated personal feud. The hosts also discuss Israel's campaign against Iranian leadership, the repercussions for oil markets, and ongoing debates over election security.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Israel’s Targeted Campaign Against Iranian Leadership

[00:05–08:33]

• Mossad Operations:
  Clay opens with the extraordinary reach of Israel’s intelligence services, reading from a Wall Street Journal piece reporting that Mossad agents have directly phoned Iranian leaders, warning of imminent assassination if they do not stop supporting the current regime.

  “Can you imagine what that’s like...to have your phone ring, pick it up, and it’s a Mossad agent saying, ‘Hey, just want you to know we know exactly where you are and we are willing and able to take you out.’” – Clay Travis [01:09]

• Human Intelligence in Iran:
  Buck highlights the profound level of Israeli infiltration in Iran.

  “It shows how much they've mapped out the human terrain even inside of Iran...That's a whole other level of capability in a battlefield situation.” – Buck Sexton [03:16]

• Iranian Locals as Informants:
  Clay explores whether reports of “ordinary Iranians” tipping off Mossad are real, or a calculated psychological tactic.

  "I don't know if this is just disinformation or designed to make people even more nervous..." – Clay Travis [05:31]

• Command Chain Concerns:
  Both hosts debate whether such targeted strikes can ever truly destabilize a hardened regime, especially as lower ranks may be just as ideologically committed.

  “How far down the chain of command do you have ideological hardliners...How deep does it go? I don't think anybody has a really good answer to that.” – Buck Sexton [03:54]

• Oil Price Spikes:
  The discussion pivots to the economic tension, as attacks drive crude oil prices to fluctuating highs ($97–$120/brl) and what this could mean for U.S. policy resolve.

  “That's their entire goal at this point, is to make the price of oil and gas go up high enough that the United States decides to pull back.” – Clay Travis [07:53]

2. GOP Infighting: Senator Markwayne Mullin vs. Senator Rand Paul

a. Setting the Stage

[09:01–12:00]

• Clay and Buck replay a segment from November 17, 2025, in which Mullin criticizes Paul over opposition to “drug boat strikes” and accuses him of being more libertarian than Republican.

  “I would be a lot better off if Rand Paul just called himself what he is: He's a libertarian. ...He can't get elected as a libertarian in Kentucky, so he decides to run as a Republican. ...I have more respect for Thomas Massie than I do Rand Paul.” – Markwayne Mullin [10:38–11:34]

b. Rand Paul Responds

Interview: [19:03–34:29]

• Paul’s Concerns About Mullin:
  Rand Paul explains why he opposes Mullin for DHS Secretary, citing Mullin’s history of “anger issues,” physical threats, and, most pointedly, Mullin’s joking praise of the 2017 assault on Paul:

  “Someone leading ICE and border patrol that basically advocated and celebrated the violence that was committed [against me]...I just don't think that's funny. ...If someone thinks that that is to be applauded, should they really be in charge of ICE and CBP?” – Senator Rand Paul [19:39]

  Paul details the severity of his assault injuries and draws a broader principle:

  "I think the challenge is how far down do you have to go and how long does it take? ...The Iranian perspective is America...is going to run out of interest..." – Clay Travis [05:52]

• On Political Violence:
  Paul worries that Mullin’s rhetoric normalizes dangerous behavior for leaders in law enforcement.

  “If I say that I wish harm on [Mullin] or his family, that's not a political difference. That's an advocation for violence. ...It's not a good example for somebody who leads law enforcement...” – Senator Rand Paul [21:19]

• Feud is Personal, not Just Political:
  Clay observes that the tension has gone beyond politics:

  “This is not a political disagreement at this point. It's personal.” – Clay Travis [11:52]

• Calls for Apology—Mullin’s Response:
  Paul emphasizes that Mullin has not apologized privately or publicly.

  “I think a normal person would have taken that chance [to apologize]...Instead, he continued with this bizarre rant...” – Senator Rand Paul [21:19]

• Why Not Let It Go?
  Paul argues that overlooking glorification of violence sets a bad precedent.

  “I guess I'm not willing just to say, ‘Oh, let bygones be bygones.’ ...If you want bygones be bygones, you might start with an apology...” – Senator Rand Paul [27:17]

c. The 2017 Assault and Its Aftermath

[14:38–17:48], [27:27–28:59]

• Listeners and hosts revisit the 2017 attack on Paul. Paul describes the outcome—his injuries, the criminal and civil penalties against his assailant, and clarifies the legal process.

  “He served about a year. He lost a civil suit. He's a convicted felon, hopefully is not voting anywhere in the country anymore and hopefully receives some punishment for this.” – Senator Rand Paul [27:46]

• Both hosts and guest agree that the punishment was inadequate:

  "I agree. I think he should have got more time in prison personally for an assault like that." – Clay Travis [15:46]

  "Rand Paul almost died from that attack on him..." – Buck Sexton [17:48]

3. U.S. War Powers and The Iran Conflict

[28:59–31:57]

• Constitutional Concerns:
  Paul critiques the current administration’s legal rationale for military operations, arguing Congress must directly authorize war.

  “I think this war was a war of choice, and I didn't agree with the choice. ...The Constitution says that Congress initiates war or declares war. ...I don't think we've done it in a constitutional way.” – Senator Rand Paul [29:47]

• Political Implications:
  Paul warns that the conflict’s economic shocks (rising oil prices) could harm Republicans in the 2026 midterms, as market disruptions may persist even after hostilities cease.

  “I think oil prices go up quickly. I think they're sticky on the way down...could last well into the election.” – Senator Rand Paul [31:30]

4. Election Security and The SAVE Act

[31:57–34:26]

• Voter ID Support:
  Paul underscores broad public backing for voter ID and his co-sponsorship of the SAVE Act.

  “I'm for it. I'm a co sponsor of it. ...There are about five Republican states that don't [require in-person voting]. …But I don't. I think it's because this bill has gotten so large and they've added things to it, you won't get any Democrats on it.” – Senator Rand Paul [32:29]

• Mail-in Balloting Divides GOP:
  Paul describes how mail-in voting is favored by some GOP-controlled states, complicating national reforms.

  “…In western states, ...Utah has everybody gets a ballot in the mail. ...Same with Arizona, Alaska. …Republicans out there like mail in balloting.” – Senator Rand Paul [33:01]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Clay on Mossad:
  “We know who you are, we know where you are, and we will kill you if you do not immediately stop supporting this government.” – [01:05]

• Mullin vs Paul:
  “I have more respect for Thomas Massie than I do Rand Paul...Rand Paul is just whoever he feels like to be that day.” – Markwayne Mullin, replayed by hosts [11:32]

• Paul on Mullin’s Conduct:
  “He has a history of brawling...He got up during a committee hearing, threatened someone...Said he would jump over the table...” – Senator Rand Paul [19:39]

• On Political Violence:
  “We disagree on funding refugee welfare. ...That's a political difference. ...But if I say that I wish harm on his family...that's an advocation for violence.” – Senator Rand Paul [21:19]

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Important Timestamps

• [00:05–08:33] Israel/Mossad operations in Iran and oil market impact
• [09:01–12:00] Replay of Mullin criticizing Paul (drug boat strikes, party loyalty)
• [19:03–27:27] Extended interview: Rand Paul responds to Mullin, outlines opposition
• [27:27–28:59] Details on Paul’s assailant and criminal case outcome
• [29:47–31:57] Paul’s take on war powers, consequences of Iran conflict
• [31:57–34:26] Election security, the SAVE Act, and GOP divisions over mail balloting

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Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, at times acerbic, and highly personal—especially on the Paul-Mullin feud. Clay and Buck balance hard-hitting political analysis with moments of wry humor and incredulity. The show’s mood mirrors the stakes of the moment: serious, sometimes tense, but always focused on first principles, party identity, and accountability.

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Summary Takeaways

• The episode gave listeners a front-row seat to an intra-GOP feud with real policy stakes, underscored the volatility in Iran and the dangers of war-by-executive-action, and aired persistent grassroots frustration over election integrity.
• Senator Rand Paul articulated the line between principle and personality in public service, warned against normalizing violence among leaders, and urged conservatives to focus reform efforts both nationally and at the state level.

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For listeners wanting the full context of the Paul-Mullin spat, the inside track on U.S.-Iran/Israel developments, and a ground-level look at GOP calculations on war and elections, this episode is essential.

Transcript

[Buck Sexton]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Caller Kenneth]

Guaranteed human.

[Clay Travis]

Welcome back in hour number two, Clay Travis, Buck Sexton show Wednesday edition of the program. Senator Rand Paul will join us on the bottom of the program here at the bottom of the hour, about 1:35 on the east coast, and we may have some fireworks coming out of that. We have got a bunch of different storylines that are worth paying attention to, but, Buck, I wanted to start. There seems to be. I know we haven't talked much about Iran lately, but meaning in the first hour, we've talked a lot about Iran over the. Over the past couple of weeks. The degree to which Israel has infiltrated the top echelon of the Iranian leadership. They took out another couple of guys overnight. Not a good time to be in Iranian leadership. And Buck, did you see this story? I read this. It was the New York Times that top Mossad agents are now calling Iranian leaders and saying, we know who you are, we know where you are, and we will kill you if you do not immediately stop supporting this government. And they are now able to. I mean, can you imagine what that's like with everything going on? To have your phone ring, pick it up, and it's a Mossad agent. And he's saying, hey, just want you to know we know exactly where you are and we are willing and able to take you out. And I saw it. I was reading in the Wall Street Journal this, and I thought you would appreciate this. The degree to which Israel is able to now target individuals. One of the guys was killed sleeping in a tent in a park where he thought he could not be found. And they were able. Here, sorry I said, is the New York Times. Here is the quote from the. The Wall Street Journal front page story. The Journal reviewed the contents of one call between a senior Iranian police commander and an agent of the Mossad. Uh, can you hear me? A Mossad agent can be heard speaking in Farsi. We know everything about you. You are on our blacklist, and we have all the information about you. Okay? The commander said in the recording, I called to warn you in advance that you should stand with your people's side. And if you do, you will. And if you will not do that, your destiny will be as your leader. Do you hear me? And then the man responds, brother, I swear on the Quran, I'm not your enemy. I'm a dead man already. Just please come help us. I'm curious what you think, just from an operational standpoint, that Mossad would be so embedded that they would be able to be calling individuals and letting Them know you're next on our list. Impactful, non impactful. How do you see this going?

[Buck Sexton]

Well, it shows how much they've mapped out the human terrain even inside of Iran, and have an understanding of command and control. Any ability to directly. It's one thing to know who's in charge. It's another thing to say, oh, you're in charge. Not anymore. Who's up next? Yes, that's a whole other level of capability in a battlefield situation. And I think, will this be, you know, I don't know. I mean, this is where you get into, do we think that this will be enough to start to push things toward a new future for the Iranian people? Clay, I just, I've seen this play out in now you could say, well, look what happened in Egypt with the Arab Spring. Although that didn't really turn out the way everybody was hoping, in some ways it's possible that this starts to have a domino effect. It's hard. It's an uphill battle. You still have a lot of people that are even lower. Like, here's the problem. How far down the chain of command do you have ideological hardliners who don't want an end to the conflict with Israel? I mean, they obviously don't want to get bombed continuously, but you know, they want to continue the Islamic revolution that, that Khomeini began. How many, how deep does it go? I don't think anybody has a really good answer to that. You know, remember, this is a country that we haven't had the kind of day to day interaction and news coverage with you have in a lot of other places. Our insights into Iran are always limited by the fact that it's a totalitarian molocracy, a dictatorship of sorts, and we don't have open access to what's going on and we haven't for, what's the math, 40 something years. So that's where it is right now. I think with the Israelis. A lot of this is also, they know people that were involved in very bad stuff against Israel. They, they know who was making sure that Hezbollah was trying to kidnap or kill Israelis. They know who was working with Hamas. I mean, they have a pretty good sense of all of that. And it's score settling time for a lot of them after a long time.

[Clay Travis]

Here's the other part of that article that I wanted to hit you with because I did think it was interesting. Israel, they say, this is according to the Wall Street Journal, got a tip from ordinary Iranians. They're saying, I don't Know if this is just disinformation or designed to make people even more nervous that Iranians are now calling in location of people in the country to get taken out. But the guy's name, Sola Miani Solomoni, I don't know if he's related to the guy that we took out before. They say, I'm reading, was holing up with his deputies in a tent in a wooded area in Tehran. And they've now taken out so many of the physical locations that the guys have gotten nervous about being in any sort of intelligence building. Right. Because there's been so many of these taken out guys hiding out in a tent in a park in Iran with his subordinates. They took them all out. So he thought, hey, maybe I can just hide out in this tent. Presumably he's trying to avoid all detection. And they were still able to take him out. And every morning when I wake up, I check the news and it feels like Iran has had another leader taken out. To your point, I think the challenge is how far down do you have to go and how long does it take? Right. Because if, let's say you have to knock out the first 300 people on the, on the list of commandos before you get to people who want to negotiate, I think the Iranian perspective is America in particular is going to run out of interest in continuing this. And so you just kind of have to hold on until the actual attacks end up ending. Right. That's the. I would imagine that's the best strategy of the Iranians right now.

[Buck Sexton]

They're really hoping, I mean, the, the IRGC and, and what's there of the Iranian regime still in place to whatever degree that's the case. They're just hoping that domestic political pressure helps bring a faster end to this. As in Trump doesn't want to burn too much political capital. And so he'll say, all right, we've done it. We've done enough. We've showed them who's boss, so to speak. What is oil now, Clay? It just spiked up, right? We and the Israelis hit a gas field in Iran now.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, that's their entire goal at this point, is to make the price of oil and gas go up high enough that the United States decides to pull back. I'm hitting it right now, $97 a barrel. It got up to 120. The crude oil futures that I'm looking at right now is up about a $50 today at $97. It spiked to 120 last week. And, and so far it's around 97.

[Buck Sexton]

It was a couple hours ago. It was $110. So according to the Journal right now I'm looking at. So I mean it definitely has had a bit of a run up. Wow. Can you imagine being on an oil trading desk right now? You know, oil futures and everything. That's.

[Clay Travis]

No. Every time there's a new tweet, every time there's a new tweet you're reacting to try to figure out what the legitimacy of it is and, and, and all of, all of those angles. All right. We told you we would play this. So I wanted to update you on Iran. That is the latest that is going on there. Let me hit you with this. This was Senator Mark Wayne Mullen on this program. Let me make sure I want to get the, the date right. The team went and tracked it back down. So we're gonna have.

[Buck Sexton]

Can I throw something out there while you're looking this up? I just want everyone to know we're. As soon as Senator Mullen is through his confirmation hearing, hopefully at that point he'll be DHS secretary or we believe he'll be DHS Secretary. We'll invite him on the program, want to hear about what his priorities will be. And he's welcome to also respond to this Senator Rand Paul situation because we're having Senator Rand Paul on today. So we're. This is a, this is a big public fight between two Republicans. They both should be able to have their say. I think Senator Rand Paul is going to be a no vote. We'll ask him this. I think he's going to be a no vote on, on Mark Wayne Mullen.

[Clay Travis]

I don't remember Senator Paul taking shots at Mark Wayne Mullen on this program. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. But, but this is for sure. Mark Wayne Mullen. This is back. The team pulled this November 17, 2025. I remember this conversation vaguely. I'm actually interested to hear it as well. Mark Wayne Mullen taking shots at Senator Rand Paul over drug boat strikes again few months ago. 3, 4 months ago.

[Buck Sexton]

Cut 30 just pivot back for a second to the drug boat strikes. 21. So far over 80 people killed. Senator Rand Paul, your Republican colleague is very against these. He has recently said things like calling

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

Rand as a Republican colleague is pretty loose lipped. So go ahead.

[Buck Sexton]

He is a Republican colleague. I mean we can talk about how you feel about that but he definitely is a Republican senator. So what do you think about the concerns about legality when it comes to these strikes?

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

That's well within, within his constitutional authority to do so. And, and so for Rand Paul to quote that, what I always say is say, okay, give me in the Constitution where it's not in his authority to do that. Pull out the part that Rand Paul is talking about. But this is the same Rand Paul that doesn't vote with Republicans to open government. He just recently was trying to support his plan to enhance THC levels for consumption in drinks because he thought it was good for Kentucky's, not joking, good for Kentucky's industry, for hemp industry. This is the same Rand Paul that is constantly looking for an opportunity to run against the President, United States. And so he's looking for an opportunity anytime he can to distance himself. I would be a lot better off if Rand Paul just called himself what he is. He's a libertarian. I'm perfectly okay with that. But he can't get elected as a libertarian in Kentucky, so he decides to run as a Republican. You know, I have more respect for Thomas Massie than I do Rand Paul. And because at least Thomas Massie owns who he is, Rand Paul is just whoever he feels like to be that day.

[Clay Travis]

So this is again, Buck, I think you nailed it. This is not a political disagreement at this point. It's personal. So there have been fireworks from the DHS confirmation hearings. Rand Paul, we played you some cuts from that. And Senator Paul will be with us at the bottom of the hour and we'll hear from him what he wants to, what he wants to say, how he wants to respond. And all of you guys can, can judge that as well. We're just talking about the situation that is going on right now in, in the Middle east, in Israel, in Iran, everywhere. And our friends at the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews make a tremendous difference when it comes to helping people in their time of need. Whether it's building new bomb shelters, whether it is setting up food banks, whether it is even putting a hospital in a parking garage beneath a, beneath the hospital itself, to protect everyone, all of the patients from the dangers of missiles that might arrive. All of these things are tremendously important. They have to do with just protecting the innocent, in particular, all over Israel. And it's what the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews does. We would like for you to join us as well. I've seen the work that these individuals do. It is fantastic. It is phenomenal. It is truly life changing for so many people there. And if you have the opportunity, we would love for you to join us and help support the IFCJ at ifcj.org I know the organization. I know the work that they're doing. 888-488. IFCJ that is ifcj.org one more time, ifcj.org you don't know what you don't know.

[Senator Rand Paul]

Right.

[Clay Travis]

But you could on the Sunday Hang with Clay and Buck podcast.

[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back into Clay and Buck. We're supposed to have Senator Rand Paul joining us in a few moments and I think a lot of you are going to want to hear it because things got very testy. Let's be honest. Things got a bit personal up on Capitol Hill on the, in the hearing for DHS secretary nominee Senator Mark Wayne Mullen. So we will hear from the other senator, Senator Paul, about where he stands on all this. I also think depends on how much time we have. We can talk to him a bit about the Save America act, which I know a lot of you have questions or thoughts on. I should say more thoughts than questions like why the heck aren't they passing this? Clay and I are not senators, so we can't vote for it. But doesn't look like it's going to happen for a whole range of reasons we've discussed on the show. Let's get to some of your thoughts here. The let's start with B. Kenneth from Melbourne, Florida.

[Caller Kenneth]

Hit B.1 question I'd like to ask Rand Paul is why did he decide to go soft on this guy after

[Senator Rand Paul]

he about killed him?

[Caller Kenneth]

I mean, quickly, not pressing charges. Never heard anything about it anymore. You know, we're all supporting you, Rand Paul, and we want to see this guy prosecuted for assault. And you weren't having it.

[Senator Rand Paul]

Why?

[Clay Travis]

I'll have to look up. I thought that there was a prosecution and the guy got punished.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, he was charged by authorities and convicted for the 2017 attack. Rand didn't press charges himself, but he expressed satisfaction with the felony conviction and jail time that the individual served. But he only served 30 days in jail. So I mean, you know, he was, the guy was, was prosecuted felony and convicted, went to prison. He had to pay Rand Paul $580,000 in damages. I, I don't, I don't think, I don't think it's a fair line of criticism to say Rand Paul didn't, you

[Clay Travis]

know, what, what go after him felony

[Buck Sexton]

and he had to pay. What else is supposed to happen?

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, I agree. I think he should have got more

[Buck Sexton]

time in prison personally for an assault like that.

[Clay Travis]

I agree.

[Buck Sexton]

I think, you know, look, it's funny actually, Clay, I was even texting with a Friend of mine yesterday who's a long time violent, violent felony prosecutor in New York, district attorney's office there. I was asking him about something that happened where a guy punched a guy. We didn't talk about this story.

[Clay Travis]

55 year old who liked a 55

[Buck Sexton]

year old, fell and died, hit his head. And in these things they get very into the specific facts like was it completely unprovoked, did they square off? Did the guy raise his hands? Did the other guy raise his hands? Was it a sucker punch? Did he, you know, is it a senior citizen? All these things come into the equation because people, a lot of people who have never been involved in physical violence don't realize first of all how ugly it gets quickly and also how it can escalate into something very dangerous, even more so than either party wants it to. I had a friend who was in college and someone that he knew got punched on stairs, fell back, hit his head, slipped into a coma and died. Oh, so that stuff can happen.

[Clay Travis]

When I was in college, kids in Georgetown got into a fight. Georgetown. One kid punched the other when he fell. He had his head and he died. It was a huge story. When I was in undergrad. You know, there's a. When you're a lawyer, young lawyer, you, you study a case, it's basically like the thin skull plaintiff case. And for those of you out there that probably have not heard of this case, one of the things that they examine is to what extent are you liable when someone has a unique physical condition which you didn't know about. This thin skull plaintiff, my recollection, died because of what should not have been a death blow. But to the point you're making buck, when you strike someone, you don't really know what the overall outcome is going to be. And the outcome can be deadly, even for things you don't think are particularly deadly in nature.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah. And Rand Paul almost died from that attack on him. And that is established by the medical record. So these are, you know, this is, these are the facts of that case. But he did bring it, so. Or rather they did bring felony charges and the person was convicted. We'll talk to, assuming he has time for us here because obviously a lot going on Capitol Hill. We're supposed to talk to Senator Paul coming up and we'll get into that. But you guys know I've been on a health journey, but dropping some lbs and trying to get stronger and healthier. And a big part of that is proper supplementation. Yes, diet, exercise, peptides. There's a lot of Things that people will do these days that make a huge difference. But proper supplementation. Don't overlook this my friends. It helps a lot. Chalk is who I go to for my supplements. I've got chalk supplements right now on the desk next to me. I take them every day. Chalk's male vitality stack has been proven to help increase testosterone by up to 20% in just three months time. Guys, your T levels are important for your energy drive and stamina. And ladies, there's a chalk female vitality stack too. Go check out all their top tier products at chalkchoq.com unlock chalk spring special plus they'll give you a free 99 bag of chocolate powder when you use Code buck. Go to chalk choq.com code buck welcome

[Clay Travis]

back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show Appreciate all of you hanging out with us across the country. We are joined now by Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky. And Senator, you've made quite a bit of news earlier today in the the DHS hearings of Senator Mark Wayne Mullen. And I guess we just can start off here with a, with a question. I don't know that you've officially said one way or the other based on the questions, it doesn't sound like you're going to be voting for him to be head of dhs. And if is that true and if so, why will you be voting against him?

[Senator Rand Paul]

You know, I guess I'm concerned about anger issues. Someone leading ICE and border patrol issues that basically advocated and celebrated the violence that was committed. About Me I was attacked from behind several years ago, six ribs broken, three of them separated, completely damaged my lung, multiple pneumonias, had part of my lung removed nearly a year, year and a half later. And I guess I don't think that's funny. I also don't think that that's something to be celebrated. And I wonder if someone thinks that that is to be applauded, should they really be in charge of ICE and cbp who I think they need a better role model. Also he has a history of brawling. I mean he got up during a committee hearing, threatened someone who was testifying, said he would jump over the table in follow up interviews. He said yeah, people just deserve to be sometimes be punched in the mouth. He said well yeah, there's historical precedent for this. You know, we had dueling and we've had canings. And so I asked him that today and he said oh yeah, we've had duelings. And I said well you realize it was illegal 170 years ago, certainly illegal now, but it was illegal even back then and frowned upon. And people actually had to travel either to other states or countries to do dueling because we disapproved of it even 170 years ago. But the fact that he would still think that we should settle our political differences through violence, I think makes him really unfit to hold any kind of position like this. So I will vote against him.

[Buck Sexton]

Senator Paul, just to be clear, because we played some of the back and forth audio, Senator Mullen has never apologized for what he said, is that correct? That has never happened.

[Senator Rand Paul]

He called me and wanted to have a discussion, and he said. Well, he said what he said today. I hope we can decide our political differences. Well, our political differences are, you know, we disagree on funding refugee welfare. I'm against giving any more money for refugee welfare. I would end the programs. He's for it. That's a political difference. But if I say that I wish harm on his family or I wish harm on him, that's not a political difference. That's an advocation for violence. And frankly, I've been on the receiving end of violence, and I just don't think it's good for our country. And it's not a good example for somebody who leads law enforcement where there have been some questions about the use of force. And so, no, he's never apologized. He was given a chance today. I think a normal person would have taken that chance and apologized. Instead, he continued with this bizarre rant that somehow when he was in the House of Representatives, he told this to my face because he's, you know, such a macho guy. I don't think I ever met the guy when he was in the House. I don't remember ever meeting with him. And I certainly would remember if someone walked up to me and told me that I deserved to be bushwhacked, you know, in my yard. So, no, I've never. I'd never met him before he got to the Senate, and he's never said it to my face. But it's interesting what he took umbrage with. He took umbrage with the fact that I called him a liar, but he didn't ever come out and say, oh, yeah, you know, I was angry about this vote. And, you know, in retrospect, maybe I shouldn't have thought that it was a great idea that this violence was committed against you. But it's that. It's his brawling and Senate committees. It's his referring to dueling and caning. I asked him if he knew who Charles Sumner was. I don't think he does. But Charles Sumner was caned nearly to death. He was caned till he was unconscious. And the reason that it kept going as one of Preston Book's colleagues from South Carolina came over with a gun and he kept the others. I always wondered, why did the senators not intervene? The reason they didn't intervene to help him. He was unconscious, bleeding from the mouth, bleeding from his ears, his skull being crushed by this guy with a cane. And nobody helps him, but it's because another thug, friend of Preston Brooks, was holding a gun to the senators, keeping them at bay. So. But he brings this up as a justification. He brought it up again today. He says, well, yeah, there is dueling. And I said, well, yeah, it's been illegal for 170 years, including at the time, even when they had dueling in the early 19th century. Most time it was illegal, and most time they went to some kind of venue to escape being caught doing. Doing, because it wasn't approved of by most people.

[Buck Sexton]

Senator Paul, Can I ask you, do you have any sense that there are any other Republicans who have serious concerns about this confirmation of the DHS secretary, or is it your sense that you stand alone among Republicans on this?

[Senator Rand Paul]

Probably on the committee, I will be the only one. You know, frankly, I suffered for a year or two with this, had part of my lung removed. So I do take it kind of personally. I do think, though, it's more of a generalized problem because I. I think his resorting to fists and his idea that people sometimes just deserve to be punched in the face, I think that kind of attitude would worry me where we, you know, this is what we had with Bovino. When Bovino was up there in Minneapolis, it was a disaster because he's marching around with a bulletproof vest, brandishing his weapons and showing how tough he is. And everybody got this sort of macho complex up there. Tom Homan, who's not a shrinking violet, went to it and said, if any agents misbehave, they'll be punished. And he started pulling people off the street so they weren't in public confrontation every day. You really haven't seen it in the news. And that's sort of what good leadership would be. But I don't know what kind of leadership you get from a guy who advocates fighting in a, you know, in the middle of a Senate hearing.

[Buck Sexton]

Why some people. Why isn't Tom Holman the DHS secretary, by the way? That's a whole other question.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, I know. I mean, I think that's an interesting question. Senator Rand Paul with us right now talking about the Mark Wayne Mullen hearing and his potential taking over the dhs. Many people in this audience, I guarantee you, Senator Paul, and I'm sure you're going to hear it from the people you represent in Kentucky, will say Democrats are wrong on so much. Why fight internally here over who the President wants as DHS secretary? How would you respond to that question or that criticism?

[Senator Rand Paul]

You know, I've supported virtually all the nominees. Kristi Noem came forward. I did hers in record time. Even though Mullen I don't think, don't like and don't think he's fit. And really, I think he's despicable person. But I've, I've gotten his nominee done quicker than any other nominee's ever gotten it. So I'm giving him fair treatment in the sense that he got a hearing in less than two weeks. He's going to get the vote tomorrow, and in all likelihood he'll be approved. But the thing is, is, you know, if this, if this were you, I mean, do you have, you know, would it be your conclusion to say, well, yeah, he did say the assault, I mean, it was justified, but I'll just kind of let that go and not say anything about it? Well, I don't think there are many people that would let it go. I'm kind of actually surprised that more people don't see the glorification of violence as a real danger to having someone lead ice who really thinks resorting to fists is the way we hear this real. You know, it's, this is a badly way to do it. We used to do it the right way with Dueling and Canaan and, you know, when I first read the story of Charles Sumner, I was horrified by it. I wasn't. I never, never crossed my mind that these were the good old days. These were the days when men were men and they, you know, crush each other's skull with, with sticks. I don't know. That never would have crossed my mind. But that apparently is his point of view. And even when confronted with it, both privately and in public, he refuses to apologize, doesn't back down, and says, basically, yeah, he's. It's completely understandable that I was attacked from behind, you know, six ribs broken, lung damaged, multiple pneumonia, part of my lung removed. I don't know. I don't get that. I guess I'm not willing just to say, oh, let's let bygones be bygones. You know, we're all adults here. Well, if you Want bygones be bygones? You might start with an apology for

[Clay Travis]

what he said, what happened to your attacker? We had a couple of people asking us, and Buck and I did a quick research. We're live on the air. I'm sure, you know, was he severely punished? Punished to what you thought he should have been that level, or what was the result of that case?

[Senator Rand Paul]

Initially, they all the judges in Kentucky recused themselves, which created a problem because then they have to look for a judge. They found one in Detroit who came down and prejudged the case and gave the guy 30 days. The government appealed it and went to the 6th Circuit. And this doesn't happen very often, appealing a criminal, a ruling of a judge because it was outside the sentencing parameters and didn't meet the minimum. And they came back and gave him another 10 months. So he served about a year. He lost a civil suit. He's a convicted felon, hopefully is not voting anywhere in the country anymore and hopefully receives some punishment for this. But, you know, it was misreported from the very beginning. And everybody said, oh, yeah, it's just a dispute between emirates. I'd never talked to the guy. I mean, I talked to maybe 10 or 15 years before. We're gone a lot. Our kids used to carpool. But there was no personal animus that I knew of between the guy other than that I learned that he was a hater of Donald Trump and a hater of me politically when we looked at his online presence, but wasn't like we'd ever had words. So really, I don't know. Those who think it's either funny or should be justified, I think are sick people, frankly.

[Buck Sexton]

Senator Rand Paul with us now. And Senator, if I could, I mean, I think we've covered pretty, in pretty good detail here what happened today in your exchange with Mark Wayne Mullen. We are in the midst of what we have been telling everybody is a war and thousands of people are dying, and it is a big deal. I know there's been a little back and forth on what we should call this, and it's, you know, there seems to be a little bit of a minimization feeling around it in some quarters. My sense is, and this is, I'm speaking for myself, and Clayton can weigh in with his sense this is just going to end sometime in the next couple of weeks and we're going to say mission accomplished with having destroyed the Iranian military. What do you make of all of this? I mean, I know you're not for it, but what's the goal here, as you see it? And what are the lessons that we're learning as we go?

[Senator Rand Paul]

You know, I think the sooner it's over, the better. War really isn't good for, you know, us as a people, not good for those who die. And really, it needs to be the last resort, not the first resort. I think this war was a war of choice, and I didn't agree with the choice. Now, whether they call it a war or not sounds legalistic, but it's a way of getting around the Constitution. The Constitution says that Congress initiates war or declares war. Now, the President's legal counsel, the Office of Legal Counsel, argues that we'll tell you when it's a war, but we have to wait a while and we'll add up the casualties. We have to know the duration, the extent and the scope of the war to tell whether it's a war or not. And I guess the problem with that kind of argument is that if Congress is supposed to initiate or declare war, you can't tell whether it's really a war until a number of dead. You know, it would be sort of Congress coming after the fact and then declaring war after the war is over. You know, with the Iraq war, we declared war in advance. We didn't know how many would die, but we ended up, I think, losing about 4,400 soldiers and maybe 10 or 20,000 significantly wounded. But we, we did actually authorize it. You know, I had some complaints with George W. Bush, but he came to Congress, made the case, and they authorized it. And same thing after 9 11. And I would have voted for the 9 11. You know, the response after 9 11, because we were attacked, that's when we really, you know, should have a war. But I don't think we've done it in a constitutional way. I think in the end, it's, it's really. This isn't the primary reason to oppose it, but I think it's also going to be very, very damaging. Republican ability to hold on to either House or Senate in the fall because of the economic repercussions. I think oil prices go up quickly. I think they're sticky on the way down. And as more infrastructure is damaged over there, as the people are having more trouble getting ships through because of insurance and danger, I don't think that quickly resolves itself. So even if the war ended in a week or two, I think you could still have, you know, pricing increases that could last well into the election.

[Clay Travis]

Last question for you. This is a VIP email, and I'M going to read it from one of our listeners. Matt, you probably have heard versions of this quite a lot. 80% of all Americans support voter ID. I'll be extremely pissed off and deflated if the SAVE act fails, especially if it fails due to GOP infighting. I think the country is doomed if we can't get voter ID passed. That's a VIP email from Matt, one of our listeners. What's going to happen with the SAVE Act? What should happen in your mind?

[Senator Rand Paul]

You know, I'm for it. I'm a co sponsor of it. Voted yesterday to get on it. We got on it with 51 votes. I am told by leadership there are not 51 votes to perpetually stay on it. You know, the whole idea of the talking filibuster that there aren't 51 votes to do that. I'm also told that one of the sticking points of doing citizenship part, that you might get 53 of us, you might even get a Democrat or two if it just did citizenship when it adds in the mail balloting, forbidding mail or discouraging mail balloting, which I am for, I think that's really almost as important as the citizenship part because I think people cheat through the mail in balloting more than any other form of voting. But the problem is you have these western states, I mean, Utah has everybody gets a ballot in the mail. They may get multiple ballots. Arizona is the same way. And they've had Republican legislatures out there, but they haven't done anything about it because frankly, Republicans out there like mail in balloting. Same with their. Same with Oklahoma. I mean, not Oklahoma, Alaska. And so while I am, you know, my state, I help, you know, get the state legislature, encourage them to pass. And almost everybody votes in person. It's like 98%. It's a felony if you lie for needing to vote by mail. So almost everybody votes in person. We have paper ballots. We keep the paper ballots. And I think they have pretty secure elections. We have IDs to be shown. So some states do it and some don't. There's about five Republican states that don't. So. Well, I voted for the national and will continue to support the national pollution. Really we ought to have as a party the goal, getting the five or six Republican states that do mail in balloting, convincing them at the state level not to do it. But I don't. I think it's because this bill has gotten so large and they've added things to it, you won't get any Democrats on it. And the only way, probably to pass it right now or to convince more Republicans and some Democrats is actually to narrow the focus to maybe just the citizenship part.

[Buck Sexton]

Senator Rand Paul, appreciate you making the time for us, sir. Thank you.

[Senator Rand Paul]

Thanks, guys.

[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

But also a little comic relief. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back in to Clay and Buck. Look, we're gonna get into a little bit more about the Iran situation coming up here in a few minutes. I also would like to talk about Clay if we can make time for today the. The amount of money that's spent in by New York City on homeless.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, this is a crazy stat.

[Buck Sexton]

I mean, we're at the point now where some of these bureaucracies, these nonprofits that are funded with taxpayer dollars would be. So we'd be so much better off just giving $80,000, which is what the number is to people who are homeless every year. Yes, but then people who are working hard for $80,000 would say, wait a

[Clay Travis]

second, often that's more than less than $80,000.

[Buck Sexton]

Right. But yeah, I mean, people are working hard for 50 grand, are saying, hold on a second, you're going to give homeless, you know, addicts 80 grand? Well, no, we're not giving homeless addicts 80 grand. We're spending $80,000 per homeless addiction. And they're not stopping the homelessness. What the heck is going on? So I think that's a. An important story to get into in New York. It's elsewhere as well. And we'll take your thoughts on the Rand Paul look. It's a feud. Rand Paul, Mark Wayne, Mullen. Let's call it what it is. Where do you come down on that one? Talkbacks, emails. Light us up. Be right back to you. This is an iHeart podcast.

[Caller Kenneth]

Guaranteed Human.