Weekly Review With Clay and Buck H3 - KY Sen. Rand Paul

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Weekly Review With Clay and Buck H3 - KY Sen. Rand Paul
Release Date: May 10, 2025
Host: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton
Guest: Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky

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1. Introduction

In this episode of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, hosts Clay Travis and Buck Sexton delve into several pressing issues in politics and current events. The primary focus centers around Senator Rand Paul's perspectives on Anthony Fauci's involvement in gain-of-function research, Trump's recent policy moves, and broader discussions on trade and national security.

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2. Main Discussions

a. Trump's Tariff Proposal on the Film Industry

Timestamp: [03:07]
Clay introduces the topic by discussing President Trump's recent proposal to impose tariffs on filming American movies overseas. This initiative aims to revive job opportunities within the U.S. film industry by discouraging the offshoring of production to countries like Hungary and Portugal, which offer tax incentives.

Notable Quote:
"Trump is saying that American movies set in America shouldn't be filmed on European sound stages, paying Europeans to make American films."
— Clay Travis [09:09]

b. Offshoring Movie Production: Costs and Jobs

Timestamp: [04:46]
Clay and Buck explore the economic implications of offshoring film production. They highlight how utilizing Eastern European locales can sometimes be more cost-effective despite higher tax rates, primarily due to savings on studio rentals and labor costs. This shift has led to significant job losses in regions like Los Angeles.

Notable Quote:
"It's cheaper to do a show or a movie in Eastern Europe... than to use empty studio lots in Los Angeles right now."
— Clay Travis [04:46]

c. Whoopi Goldberg's Opposition to Trump's Proposal

Timestamp: [08:10]
The hosts discuss Whoopi Goldberg's criticism of Trump's tariff proposal, emphasizing the disconnect between her stance and the practical benefits of bringing film production back to the U.S. They argue that her opposition stems from a lack of understanding of the policy's potential to create domestic jobs.

Notable Quote:
"You moron. He's saying, hey, American movies that are set in America shouldn't be filmed on European sound stages."
— Clay Travis [14:36]

d. Efforts to Re-shore Movie Production to the U.S.

Timestamp: [10:18]
Clay elaborates on the need for U.S. states to compete for film productions by offering tax breaks and incentives, similar to Georgia and South Carolina. This competitive environment aims to keep the production within the country, fostering job growth and supporting local economies.

Notable Quote:
"They get it. They're competing with each other for this business."
— Clay Travis [11:46]

e. Private Media Initiatives and Future of Film Production

Timestamp: [12:55]
The conversation shifts to private media initiatives like those led by Tyler Perry, who has successfully established studios in Atlanta. Clay discusses the impact of AI advancements on special effects, making film production more affordable and accessible, potentially revitalizing the American film industry.

Notable Quote:
"The ability of special effects with AI is going to make the making of films far more affordable."
— Clay Travis [12:55]

f. Emergency Preparedness Segment

Timestamp: [18:14]
Clay briefly mentions the importance of being prepared for natural disasters, promoting Rapid Radios as a reliable communication tool during emergencies. Although short, this segment underscores the show's commitment to practical advice for listeners.

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3. Guest Segment: Senator Rand Paul

a. Anthony Fauci and Gain-of-Function Research

Timestamp: [26:44]
Senator Rand Paul joins the discussion to address ongoing investigations into Anthony Fauci's role in gain-of-function research. Paul outlines the efforts to uncover who authorized funding for research in Wuhan and criticizes Fauci for misleading the public about the nature of the research.

Notable Quote:
"We know the NIH did it, but we want to know who met about it, who discussed it, and who made the final approval."
— Senator Rand Paul [27:15]

He questions the validity of Fauci's claims that the research was not gain-of-function, citing evidence from correspondence between the NIH and EcoHealth Alliance, a group involved in the funding.

Notable Quote:
"How do you lift a pause in funding for a project that was never gain of function if it was never gain of function?"
— Senator Rand Paul [27:15]

b. Future of Gain-of-Function Research and Legislation

Timestamp: [29:04]
Paul discusses legislation aimed at scrutinizing and regulating gain-of-function research more effectively. This includes proposals for an independent panel of scientists to oversee such research without conflicts of interest stemming from NIH funding.

Notable Quote:
"These scientists would not be ones who get NIH grants. So they can't be bribed to have an opinion."
— Senator Rand Paul [29:04]

c. U.S. Foreign Policy: Houthis and Iran Relations

Timestamp: [34:23]
The conversation shifts to international relations, focusing on Trump's dealings with the Houthis and Iran. Paul expresses support for diplomatic efforts over sanctions, arguing that dialogue is essential to preventing nuclear proliferation and ensuring international shipping safety.

Notable Quote:
"The only realistic way of stopping them from getting a nuclear weapon is in all likelihood through diplomacy."
— Senator Rand Paul [35:03]

d. Tariffs and Trade Agreements

Timestamp: [37:25]
Paul analyzes current tariff debates, contrasting isolationist and reciprocal approaches. He critiques the idea of imposing a 500% tariff on Russian oil, considering it economically detrimental, and supports lowering tariffs through reciprocal trade agreements, such as those being considered with India.

Notable Quote:
"If Trump is able to use as a negotiating technique the ability to lower tariffs with India... I'll be the first to compliment him on that."
— Senator Rand Paul [38:09]

e. Government Spending and Debt

Timestamp: [40:09]
In a brief exchange, Paul addresses government spending cuts, emphasizing the ineffectiveness of unapproved cuts and expressing concern over the nation's fiscal responsibility.

Notable Quote:
"If Congress can't even cut 9 billion, bar the door. You might as well plan on a full-scale bankruptcy."
— Senator Rand Paul [40:17]

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4. Conclusion

The episode concludes with Clay reinforcing the significance of the discussions held, particularly the need for accountability in governmental research and the revival of domestic industries through sensible policy adjustments. The hosts reiterate their support for initiatives that prioritize American jobs and national security.

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Key Takeaways

• Reviving the U.S. Film Industry: Trump's proposal to impose tariffs aims to bring film production back to America, potentially saving thousands of jobs lost to offshoring.
• Accountability in Research Funding: Senator Rand Paul is actively investigating Anthony Fauci's role in gain-of-function research funding, seeking transparency and accountability.
• Diplomatic Over Economic Sanctions: Emphasis on diplomacy over harsh tariffs and sanctions as a more effective means of addressing international conflicts and nuclear proliferation.
• Balanced Trade Policies: Advocacy for reciprocal trade agreements to lower tariffs, promoting economic growth without the detrimental effects of extreme protectionism.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "It's cheaper to do a show or a movie in Eastern Europe... than to use empty studio lots in Los Angeles right now." — Clay Travis [04:46]
• "Trump is saying that American movies set in America shouldn't be filmed on European sound stages, paying Europeans to make American films." — Clay Travis [09:09]
• "We know the NIH did it, but we want to know who met about it, who discussed it, and who made the final approval." — Senator Rand Paul [27:15]
• "The only realistic way of stopping them from getting a nuclear weapon is in all likelihood through diplomacy." — Senator Rand Paul [35:03]
• "If Trump is able to use as a negotiating technique the ability to lower tariffs with India... I'll be the first to compliment him on that." — Senator Rand Paul [38:09]

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show episode featuring Senator Rand Paul, providing a clear overview for those who haven't listened to the podcast.

Transcript

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[Clay Travis]

Buck Sexton Show Appreciate all of you hanging out with us. We are rolling through the third hour of the program, Tuesday Edition Center. Rand Paul just had to reach out. He has had a last minute issue come up on Capitol Hill. He's going to try to join us at the bottom of this hour. Just FYI. We'll take some of your calls and continue to break down everything that is moving rapidly in the world as we are rolling today. I did want to mention, I know we talked a little bit about this, Buck. Yesterday, Trump announced a idea for tariffs for movies and it has provoked a ton of response. And I think this is very interesting, the idea, and I actually don't dislike it. And let me explain why in a little bit more detail. Uh, interestingly, there was an article that came out, I think it was in the New York Times, and I'm betting Trump read it. And it was an article or his staff read, was an article that dealt with the collapse of jobs in the movie industry in the Los Angeles area in particular. And there were several people who had worked on film and television for years and years that basically said, hey, there's no jobs here anymore. And you mentioned, Buck, that you can now go to Europe and make movies cheaper all over Europe, which certainly has crazy tax rates than you can in the United States. Was it Hungary in particular, that you were citing Budapest, where you could go?

Well, it's actually, I think Rob Lowe in a podcast talking about this, a guy who's been in the business for like 50 years and he said it's cheaper to do a show or a movie in Eastern Europe. Think about that, though. It's not that you're using Eastern European crews maybe somewhat to fly all of the cast and the director and the this and the that and everything over there, put them up in hotels, do all of that, than to use empty studio lots in Los Angeles right now. Think about that.

Yes. So I think this is actually a good explanation of how offshoring has worked even for high end industry. And I want you to think about this for a minute. They're doing oftentimes this movie making and this television making in countries with much higher tax rates than the United States. So initially it was a lot of people started to move to Vancouver. Canada was giving huge advantages for making film and movies, television and movies in Canada. Even though Canada, as you heard Trump talking about earlier as a country, has much higher rates on average of taxes than people do in the United States and then European countries. England has, for instance, built up. I think they did all the Star wars movies and I think all the Harry Potter movies on huge studios that they have built outside of London. Well, we all know English taxes are much higher than they are in the United States. And so Trump looked at this and he is saying, well, this is not ideal. We need to be producing American movies in the United States. And I don't think he's wrong on that. And there has been some pushback because I think even people in Hollywood are kind of a little bit skeptical over this. But it is the same thing that has happened in Midwest with factory jobs. As I told you yesterday, a lot of these people that are working on movies, they're blue collar workers. They I know people think, oh, it's Hollywood, oh, it's movies. That's a lot of, you know, super rich limousine people. And yeah, if you're a movie star, you make a lot of money. But the monies that are spent on films trickle down in a huge way to the guy that's making a set and sitting there with a saw, to the person who's got to be pretty physically strong, that's running around with a mobile camera. And I've talked about, as a guy who did television in LA for years, I have met a lot of the cast and crew that are involved in producing television. I'm telling you all, a lot of them are big Trump supporters. So this has, I think, a really interesting conversation aspect to it Trump, because it creates unnatural or unexpected political alliances.

Well, if you think about somebody like the key grip, right, who is involved with rigging for camera movements and the physical mechanical components of the camera guys, the lighting guys and gals. But a lot of them are going to be more sympathetic to, let's say, the Trump and capitalist point of view. It's really the producers, the actors and the writers room where you tend to have much of the communist stuff.

So not surprisingly, many people have missed this aspect, which is Just, hey, we should be on shoring. That is making even more movies in America that are designed for Americans instead of shipping them overseas. Let's figure out how to do that in the most, the most capitalistic way imaginable. Right? Whoopi Goldberg is mad at Trump over trying to come up with a solution here on the View. She decided to instead say, hey, this is what's going to happen. Listen to this.

[Whoopi Goldberg]

Ok, look, you can't do that because what that equates to is you're going to tell me how to write the story I want to write if it happens in Europe. You're telling me that if my book comes out and I want to write it, you tell me how to write it. You're telling me you're going to charge me for that? Well, you know, could you, look.

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[Whoopi Goldberg]

You please lower the price of eggs before you start this?

[Clay Travis]

Okay. The price of eggs is their talking point. It's actually going to be near a historic low. They're at wholesale prices now. The prices that in grocery stores are coming down. But she just doesn't under. I mean, this is embarrassing, I think, for someone who should be in entertainment and making movies. Trump is not saying, you can't set a book in Europe, you moron. He's saying, hey, American movies that are set in America shouldn't be filmed on European sound stages, paying Europeans to make American films. The reason Los Angeles exists as a movie capital is historically because it rains so irregularly and the weather is so good, by and large, you could film on more days than almost anywhere else in the United States. And therefore Tinseltown developed. I think continuing to produce American movies in America is actually a really good goal because it gives Americans jobs to entertain Americans by producing these films.

Also, I would just point out clearly a lot of states are already hip to this, if you will. They get it.

They're competing.

There's.

Yeah, yeah.

Because they compete with each other for this business. Right. I mean, I think I, I have. It hasn't been something I've looked at in a while. But states like Georgia, I think South Carolina, there are states that give some pretty hefty tax breaks to movie productions because they realize it brings a lot of good stuff into the state, a lot of dollars, a lot of attention, you know, maybe too much attention. I feel like some of you who live in Montana after the Yellowstone series are like, stop buying up outside of Bozeman. But that obviously affects the real estate markets. I mean, there's a lot to be said for bringing these Productions into these places. And I think about something like New York City. So many great iconic movies and. And TV shows were filmed in New York when I was growing up in New York. And a lot of people film felt like they knew New York City from watching those, even if they grew up in Oklahoma. Right. That's not happening the same way anymore. And it's nonsense. And the fact that it's not even happening in California, the home of the movie industry, or really kind of the. The original birthplace of the movie industry, is something that is clearly indicative of how bad policy is. This is not a free market thing. This is a bad policy thing. And it's because California's wage and. And, you know, just job regulations and taxation are completely out of control.

Yeah, look, I think that's totally true. And California has got its own issues. I don't have a problem with Georgia deciding, hey, we're going to produce our own studio system. I think a lot of that actually emanated, if I'm not mistaken, from Tyler Perry, who had tremendous success making movies and television shows. And he said, hey, I'm from Atlanta. I want to build my own studio here. And I think there are going to be a lot of challenges. I saw quotes from Tyler Perry talking about, hey, man, I don't know exactly what needs to be built going forward, because I'm sure you've seen some of this buck, and certainly you guys have had fun with doing AI versions of us, but the ability of special effects with AI, it's going to make the making of films, in particular special effects, far more affordable. And that's different in terms of how the jobs are going to be associated there with a lot of the challenges that I think exist now, which is we shouldn't be competing with London for whether it's more affordable to make an American movie here or in London or in any other European country you want.

To talk about, in a sense, the incentives countries like Portugal and Hungary, and some of these are not. Portugal is not a rich country. A lot of Americans are moving there because it's actually such a good dollar go so far, it's become a popular producer. Ali just went there, she said it was amazing. I actually really want to go side note. But these countries, Clay, when they're giving incentives, it's kind of like a reverse tariff. Right. When you start to think about it that way, you see that this is a game that people are playing in a whole range of ways. If, if you bring a movie to, let's say you're going to Film a movie in Portugal, and they're going to say, hey, we're going to give you the following financial incentives for you to make your movie here. Well, it's very similar to the mindset of we're going to have a tariff on external movies so that you'll make them here in America. Right. They're just, this is just cash exchanging hands one way or another to create an incentive structure. And I think that with the, with the movie industry, the TV industry, this is the one thing, I might add, that just traditional America needs to make. This is where we really need to push now. Because the time has never been more ripe, more clear and more obvious, I think, for a film studio slash, you know, tv, some kind of a production house that's not going to make stuff that is necessarily like right wing or conservative, but that will appeal to, to the broadest possible audience, which will inherently seem conservative compared to some of the slop they've been putting out on Netflix and Hulu in recent years.

I agree with that 100%. And let me just say again to Whoopi Goldberg, you moron, no one is saying if a movie set in Paris that the movie shouldn't be shot in Paris. Right?

Clay, she doesn't even read the news story she talks about on the show anymore. I mean, she really, she's mailing it in. You know, I, I've just, I've heard things from people in and who are around that world on the View that she doesn't really want to be there anymore. No, I'm being serious. She doesn't want to be there anymore. Doesn't want to do the homework if she ever did. And it just comes across now because what she's saying is so dumb that it's not even wrong.

Well, you would. Yeah. No, that's. You would think of all of the subjects out there. Hollywood movies, given that she has been in Hollywood movies historically, would be something.

That should be good. I know it's been 40. It's been 40 years, but she was in some good ones.

You would think that she would be able to intelligently talk about that, but instead she's so reflexively anti Trump that even something that could make sense to help have more homegrown American jobs in the creative space, which I think is a good thing, she would be opposed to. It's just moronic. If anything, you can argue, and some of you may be of this position, I don't want to do anything for anybody that works in the movies because they're so left wing. And everything else. I understand that argument. I'm just telling you that having been out in LA a lot and having worked a lot in television and movies, I think you would be surprised. The act, the actors and actresses get all the attention. They're going to be fine. They're super rich. But I think you'd be surprised by the regular guys and gals out there working on movies who love Donald Trump and just want to have a good job so they can take care of their families. We should have more of those in America.

And this is also a time when if you had the right group of conservative. And again, I just traditional, I would say traditional entertainment. Not even, not even. It's not about the politics. It's just about stories that are meant to inspire and appeal to people in the broadest possible way. The only stuff that even comes close to that has been like superhero movies for the past decade. Please don't send me. I love Kevin Sorbo and some of these people that have worked on more, you know, independent projects and stuff and they're doing the best that they can. I'm saying the big studios, I'm talking about what's getting made by Amazon and Netflix and these are the places that are right. Apple tv. Clay. The time has never been better to get your, you know, undaunted Lois and Clark.

It's a no brainer series in the.

No brainer because I think someone like a Jeff Bezos could, could tell the head of content at Amazon, hey, how about we make a kick ass series that isn't about how you have to trans your 12 year old. How about that?

Let me give credit here. These guys live in my neighborhood. Andrew and John Irwin, Andy and John Irwin. They've been doing tremendous jobs making movies in a lot of the arena that you're talking about, Buck. And what they've seen is the math on these has really kind of taken off. They did the best Christmas pageant ever. They did American Underdog. They did. They've done a lot of different movies. I think we had them on. I can only imagine the Jesus music, the Jesus revolution. And they're involved in a lot of these, a lot of these different. The New David documentary that I think is just not a documentary, but I mean it's based on a true life history in the Bible. It's killing it.

I love that Trump has gone after the stranglehold on elite academia with Harvard, etc. That's critical and it's part of the long term play of putting this country, you know, back in a sane place. But Clay entertainment industry.

Yep.

It, you know, we, this is another place where we need to really make gains.

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All right. Welcome back into Clay and Buck. We got Senator Rand Paul joining us here. In just a few minutes, Senator Paul of Kentucky is going to get into all the news of the day. Some big topics to dive into with him. Might be able to get into this one here as well. Momentarily, breaking news. The Supreme Court has sided with President Trump and Secretary Hegseth allowing the transgender military service member ban to go into effect. This is from the It's a pending case. Ok. So this is an application for a stay. The application for stay presented to Justice Kagan and referred to the court is granted. The preliminary injunction entered into by the United States District Court is stayed pending the disposition. So it's not a final dis. I was going to Say lawyer Clay explained this, but we have like five seconds. But it's not final, but at this stage it's, it's going the way of the Trump administration. Right?

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[Clay Travis]

Back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton show. Appreciate everybody hanging out with us. We are joined now by Senator Rand Paul, a great state of Kentucky, uh, and Senator Paul. I know there's a ton of things we're going to get into with you, but I want to start with this. Anthony Fauci. The evidence continues to mount that he lied about gain of function research. You uniquely, I think, in the entire political class, have continued to hold his feet to the fire. What is the latest about that that you can tell us?

[Rand Paul]

We've been trying to get records on the deliberation of who made the call to send the money to Wuhan. The research, the lab, the league, who funded it. We know the NIH did it, but we want to know who met about it, who discussed it, and who made the final approval. We think that's Anthony Fauci, and we're getting closer to that. The Biden administration refused to give us any documents. They basically refused for years to give any. Robert Kennedy has opened up the books to us. Jay Bhattachary at NIH is also helping us, and we're sorting through it. We're going to begin interviewing everybody who's part of the process. So there's a committee over there that discussed it. When Fauci said everybody told him that it wasn't going to function. It's interesting though, that the committee has documents, and in the documents they have EcoHealth Alliance. This is a group that got the money that took it to Wuhan. They have EcoHealth alliance sending notes back to the NIH saying, thank you for lifting our gain of function pause. So they were paused. The government quits funding gain of function between 2014 and 2016. They thanked them for lifting their pause on the same research that Fauci said was never gained function. So how do you lift a pause in funding for a project that was never gained a function if it was never gain of function? So we've got evidence like that. But ultimately, once we've interviewed everybody, we will get to Anthony Fauci. That will be within a month or two, and we'll be having him come.

[Clay Travis]

In and testify in terms of that testimony, what are you hoping to be able to get final answers from Fauci? On and given the Senator Paul, given the preemptive pardon that he was given, which is still pretty remarkable when I say that out loud that that even happened. What are you hoping the final disposition of this whole situation will be?

[Rand Paul]

You know, you realize with a preemptive pardon where they don't even list your crime, that he's pardoned for anything. Stealing, you know, larceny, grand larceny, assault, you name it. He's pardoned for anything he could have done over a 10 year period. It's the craziest thing I've ever heard. I've never ever heard of a pardon that's preemptive and also includes any possible crime he committed over a 10 year period. I don't have high hopes that he's going to be ultimately held criminally responsible, but I think it's important that history judges him accurately and harshly. He made a decision that led to the million millions of people dying, basically a decision to fund a lab that was not up to safety stand and fund research that was incredibly dangerous. We also are concerned that this kind of research still goes on. So the President came out in the last day or so with a pause once again on gain of function research, importantly, not just in our country, but a pause on all funding we do around the world. Because of course, you know, Uncle Sam funds everybody's research lab everywhere in the world. And some of these, some of this, some people conjecture Anthony Fauci farmed out because he wanted less scrutiny. So he wanted, you know, for example, some of the most gruesome stuff that was done on beagles was done in Tunisia. They did in Tunisia hoping that their sensibilities about sewing their eyelids open and infecting them with sand fleas and then cutting their larynx out so you couldn't hear the dogs cry, that there'd be less sensibility for that somewhere else other than the United States. But same way with gain of function, we think some of it was farmed out. We need to know the degree of this and we need to get to the bottom of it. We're also very concerned with a couple of labs near Fort Detrick. Kennedy closed one down and the media reported he was anti science. I heard the accurate story from Jay Bhattachary. The accurate story is someone's hazmat suit was purposely cut in one of the areas dealing with Ebola and different very dangerous viruses. So getting that kind of disease out of a lab, if he were to have gotten infected is incredibly dangerous. And so next to that lab is an nih, No, a DHS lab, Department of Homeland Security, that we now have reports are doing experiments aerosolizing Ebola. We think that somebody, you know, somebody representing the taxpayer and the citizens of the country ought to be able to take a look at these labs and find out what experiments are doing. And really, should we be doing some of this?

[Clay Travis]

I think both. All of this you just said is really important because I think it answers two questions. One, it is backward looking in the context of Fauci should be seen as a villain of history and his full trajectory of stories and lies should be analyzed for years to come. That's backwards looking, prospectively, as you just laid out. The reason why this matters is if China created Covid, which I think it's quite clear that they did, partly based on having gain of function, access to American taxpayer dollars, we should be massively concerned about, as you just laid out, whatever the next iteration of the virus that could be created is, because it could end up far more deadly than anything that we dealt with with COVID I think that's kind of a synthesis of all of this for people out there who would say, okay, why are we still talking about COVID Well, you.

[Rand Paul]

Know, the next virus could be avian flu. Avian flu has a 50% death rate. Coronavirus, or Covid, was less than 1%. So avian flu currently, can you. Can a human can get it from chickens or from birds, but it doesn't go human to human. But there are experiments trying to get it to go human to human, mammal to mammal, through the air. These have been funded by nih. This is the kind of stuff that has to be discussed. Is it a death wish for humanity for someone to try to get avian flu and make it more transmissible among humans? I think we should be shouting this from the rooftops. This kind of research should not occur and the taxpayer shouldn't pay for it. But I don't know that we've actually gotten to that point yet. The Trump administration's ban, or at least temporary or maybe longer on this is a good step. I have legislation that would do this. We actually have gotten bipartisan support. I passed it out unanimously at a committee last Congress. Do it again in the next month or so, and then we're hoping it can be included in some kind of legislation that's going to pass soon. But this would actually let President Trump appoint a panel of scientists. And importantly, these scientists would not be ones who get NIH grants. So they can't be bribed to have an opinion. They will be independent voices, but experts in their field, and they will examine all government research, all classified and unclassified documents, and they will give their opinion on whether it should be funded and they will have the ability to stop funding. It will be a powerful committee, but it won't be a total ban. It would be, we're going to look at case by case. The reason you need that is if you just ban it and then the next people come in and say, well, that's not going to function. That's what Anthony Fauci did said, oh, yeah, we were, we were had special safety for getting a function. But this wasn't gain of function. Anthony Fauci to this day still argues that the research in Wuhan that led to the death of six to 10 million people, he said that wasn't gain of function, which nobody else believes other than Anthony Fauci.

[Clay Travis]

Speaking to Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky. Senator, on President Trump today, he spoke about the Houthis. I think he said there's a deal that they have now. Essentially it's please stop bombing us and we'll stop blowing up ships. But the Houthis are an extension and an allied with Iran. There's a lot of talk right now about one of kind of, I think you could say, a rare disconnect or disagreement at the senior levels of some of the Trump personnel. And it has to do with Iran and what we should do about Iran and its nuclear ambitions going forward. How do you see that? Where do you think Trump is on this and where would you like to see this go?

[Rand Paul]

You know, I'm encouraged by the announcement today. And Trump shows great strength and they back down. So I think that is a good thing, and I hope is that we can get to a point where international shipping is safe to go around the bend there and up through the Suez. With regard to Iran, my hope is that we can move forward. And this is where Trump is different than some of the neoconservatives. The neoconservatives never want to get to the next step of negotiations. So Trump goes in with a firm hand, but he does get to the next step of negotiation. He did it with North Korea. Didn't necessarily work out, but most of the neocons, from Hillary Clinton to Bill Kristol, would have never talked to North Korea. They would never talk to an Iran. Ultimately, getting to the point where we talk to them is good because really, the only realistic way of stopping them from getting a nuclear weapon is in all likelihood through diplomacy. I don't think you can bomb away their nuclear. I don't think once they have enriched uranium, you know, a cup full of uranium enriched to 95 or 98% is probably enough for a bomb. You know, you. Once you get six or eight or ten cupfuls of uranium, you're missed to that point. You have the rest of the technical knowledge to do it. You know, you can hide that thousands of feet below the ground where no bomb can get to. So, you know, I don't want that to happen. We want to stop it, but ultimately it has to be both stick and carrot. And. And so ultimately you have to talk to people and you have to. This is the same thing we should be doing with Russia. You know, they're wanting to put more sanctions on Russia. The Lindsey Graham bill wants to put a 500% tariff on everybody who buys oil from Russia. You know what that is? That's about 40 or 50 countries buy oil and gas from Russia. A 500% tariff would be a shutdown of basically all commerce in the world. I mean, it's a terrible idea. What we should be doing instead is going to Russia and say, you want to get back in the banking system, you want to get rid of some sanctions, bombing Venezuela and let's have a ceasefire and peace talks. I think we have the ability to offer stuff, but I think it's. I think you. We have so many sanctions already on these countries that really, to get to diplomacy and get to the peace, the peace should be offering to remove sanctions and allow Russia back into the banking world. But they have to do something real. It has to be real ceasefire and has to really ultimately be a peace plan.

[Clay Travis]

All right, I know it's a complicated topic, but I want to give you an opportunity to weigh in on tariffs and analyze this. Reports today that India might be willing to go to zero tariffs for American goods. It seems to me that there is dual arguments here. One is, you hear it from a lot of Trump people. Hey, we want to actually eliminate many of the tariffs and have more free trade. The other argument is we need to have more protectionist trade, potentially with China, other countries. How do you analyze this? What should we do? And bigger picture, how does it impact the big beautiful bill? I know that's a big question, but the tax cut bill that's currently making its way along with border security through.

[Rand Paul]

Congress right now, there's two camps on tariffs. They're all pro tariff in the Trump administration, but two camps. One is the Neanderthal camp. The Neanderthal camp says that we keep tariffs on until there's no more trade depth. Well, you think we're ever going to get to the point where Bangladesh buys as much from us as we buy from them? Same with Vietnam. We're a very, very rich country. And part of a trade deficit is when you're richer, you buy more stuff from other people than they buy from you. So it's just, that's a ridiculous Neanderthal sort of argument. The other camp says, well, we want reciprocal agreements, we want fairness, but we'll, you know, we'd like to see lower tariffs. That's a more reasonable camp. And I've actually said, well, I'm not for the tariffs and I think tariffs are misguided. If Trump is able to use as a negotiating technique the ability to lower tariffs with India and they get to a much lower level than when we started, I'll be the first to compliment him on that. But realize that the tariff bill or the sanction bill that Lindsey is proposing on Russia actually would tariff because India and China are the two biggest purchasers of oil and gas from Russia. And if you put a 500% tariff, that's going the opposite way. So I don't think we're going to zero. If we pass this new Russia sanction bill that puts a 500%. A 500% tariff is an embargo. It's almost like a declaration of war, basically. So it's a really, really, really foolish notion. But if, you know, they come up with a deal with India, I will be the first to compliment the president and say great job. You know, if he gets, if he gets lower tariffs, we'll see what happens. But I think that should be the goal really, with every country and I would say even including China, because I think the moment that we have no trade with China is the, that they become less predictable and potentially more militaristic.

[Clay Travis]

Senator, one more for you only got about a minute, but I just wanted to hear you weigh in on this because I know government spending and our unsustainable debt is something been for a long time, the doge cuts. I'm hearing there's been some cuts actually made a lot of cuts advised. What do you think? Where are we on that?

[Rand Paul]

None of them actually count until they come back to Congress. So if you say you've cut spending unless it's actually booked by Congress and Congress votes on it, it doesn't really, it hasn't been transmitted or accounted for. There's supposedly a rescission package. It can be voted on by a simple majority that's coming back to US of only 9 billion. That's a pittance. That's a rounding error. I'm for it. But I'll say send us more, please. We'll see. But right now we have. We've been hearing about that for two weeks and haven't seen that. And if that gets over here in the weak need, Republicans won't vote for that. Then I say, Katie, bar the door. You might as well plan on a full scale bankruptcy of the country if the Congress can't even cut 9 billion.

[Clay Travis]

On that note, Senator Rand Paul, thank you for being with us as always, sir. We appreciate it.

[Rand Paul]

Thank you.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, yeah, hopefully, hopefully he doesn't come to that. He's right, by the way, on the numbers and he knows it. And always such a good conversation with the senator from Kentucky. Few nonprofit organizations can make this claim. 350,000 lives saved. But that's exactly what Preborn has done over the 20 years of its existence. The preborn clinics nationwide welcome pregnant moms into their facilities when that decision is being made. Life or abortion. And here's what Preborn does. They welcome in all those moms. They give them love, support, attention, care and a free ultrasound. Because when that mom meets the tiny life growing inside of her. I just went through this with my own boy, going to those ultrasound check ins with my wife. It's incredible seeing that little heartbeat. And when mom sees that little heartbeat, the discussion is so much easier for oh yeah, life for my unborn baby. Preborn is on the line, saving lives day in and day out. This way they do it with just $28 expense per ultrasound. 28 bucks. You could save a life with $28 of donation to Preborn. Some of you have very fortunate financial situations and you can do $280 or even more. Whatever you can spare Preborn will use for this incredible mission of saving tiny babies. To donate securely, dial pound250 and say the keyword baby. That's 250. Say baby or visit preborn.com buck preborn.com b u c K sponsored by Preborn.

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