Wellness Unmasked: Detransitioning After Childhood Gender Transition: Claire Abernathy’s Story

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Wellness Unmasked: Detransitioning After Childhood Gender Transition: Claire Abernathy’s Story
Date: February 10, 2026
Host: Dr. Nicole Saphier
Guest: Claire Abernathy

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Overview

This episode focuses on the personal journey of Claire Abernathy, a young woman who underwent a gender transition as a child and later detransitioned. Dr. Nicole Saphire moderates a candid conversation that delves into Claire's motivations, experiences with the medical system, mental health challenges, and reflections on the broader trend of childhood gender transitions. The episode offers a raw, empathetic exploration of the complexities and consequences surrounding youth gender transition, highlighting the impact of home life, mental health, and the medical community’s approach.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Rise in Childhood Gender Transition

• Context & Data (03:00–07:30):

  • Dr. Saphire discusses the increasing number of children identifying as transgender, comparing it to past generations.
  • Cites CDC data showing higher rates of instability, unsafe environments, bullying, and mental health struggles among transgender youth compared to their cisgender peers.
  • Raises the question: Is this rise a new medical phenomenon, a social fad, or a response to underlying suffering?

• Quote (Dr. Nicole Saphire, 05:05):

  "About 3% of all high school students right now are identifying as transgender. How we get that statistic, I don't know, but, I mean, that seems like a very, very large amount compared to when I was younger."

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Claire’s Story: Early Discomfort and Social Influences

• Initial Discomfort (12:43–14:20):

  • Claire recalls developing early and experiencing unwanted attention, especially from boys, which triggered significant discomfort with her body.
  • Within her group of friends, several began identifying as transgender, which initially involved changes in hair and clothing style, and adopting new names.

• Quote (Claire Abernathy, 13:26):

  "Everything's got to have a new label. But they picked new names, and they started calling themselves boys... I was kind of curious about this, and one of them offered to lend me a chest binder to make my breasts look flat."

• Online Research & Identity Evolution (14:20–16:01):

  • Claire encountered online sources stating that you "don't even have to feel like a boy" to be trans, which broadened her perceptions of gender.
  • Progressed from identifying as “gender fluid” to “nonbinary” and finally as a “transgender boy.”

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Mental Health, Home Life, and Seeking Help

• Subgroup Patterns (16:01–18:43):

  • Claire describes her peer group as troubled: many with histories of trauma, autism, eating disorders, self-harm, and family instability.
  • Many peers from divorced families, with issues like drug abuse or even sexual crimes in the household.

• Quote (Claire Abernathy, 16:39):

  "A lot of us were children of divorce... One of my friends, her father was in prison for a sex crime against a child. Not her, but a different child. Troubled kids, troubled home life."

• Social Trends as Expression (18:09–18:43):

  • Gender nonconformity and declarations of trans identity were, in Claire’s words, “the fashionable way” to express distress and seek help at that time.

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Entering the Medical System: Affirmation and Hasty Decisions

• Therapy and “Affirmation” (20:29–23:58):

  • When Claire’s parents discovered her self-harm, she was taken to a gender-specialist therapist, who quickly diagnosed her as transgender, recommending affirmation and transition.
  • Second therapist and gender clinic similarly affirmed her within short time frames, with little exploration of deeper root causes.
  • Claire’s mental health issues—cutting and disordered eating—didn’t abate, despite social and family affirmation.

• Quote (Dr. Nicole Saphire, 21:13):

  "So it wasn't like when you were living as a girl then this suppressed boy inside of you is causing you to cut... you're suffering or. And you're still suffering. Now you have this therapist saying, classic textbook. You're transgender."

• Medical Interventions (25:07–30:06):

  • At age 13 began medical interventions: Depo-Provera to stop periods, then testosterone at age 14.
  • Testosterone permanently impacted her voice, body hair, and created reproductive issues. She reports not thinking about the long-term, only wishing to “look and sound different.”
  • At 14, she underwent a double mastectomy performed by a local surgeon, with no discussion of less drastic alternatives like breast reduction.

• Quote (Claire Abernathy, 26:47):

  "By the time I was 14 and going in for the mastectomy, I had like, triple D breasts. They removed almost 10 pounds of tissue."

• Complications:

  • Procedure led to severe, long, visible scars and complications (nipple graft rejection) that were not fully explained to her before surgery.

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Aftermath: Persistent Mental Health Issues & Detransition

• No Mental Health Relief (31:06–33:19):

  • Psychiatric medication doses increased after medical intervention; mood improvement was fleeting.
  • Ultimately, ongoing pain and worsening mental health prevailed despite transition and robust family support.

• Quote (Claire Abernathy, 31:06):

  "No, I remained on the anti depressants. The amount of psychiatric medication that I was on went up significantly after all of this..."

• Detransition (36:27–43:21):

  • Stopped testosterone around age 17 after almost three years; wasn’t aware of her true feelings due to being “numb” from psychiatric drugs.
  • Noted that most of her peers who experimented with trans identity “desisted” without medicalization; Claire attributes her path to being sent to an “affirming” therapist.
  • Began gradually returning to presenting as female after a genuine romantic interest in a boy and changing social context (relocation due to legal climate in Texas).
  • Sought breast reconstruction at 18, but was refused by multiple surgeons because of her age; eventually obtained the procedure.

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Realizations & Community

• Understanding the Systemic Issue (44:42–46:56):
  • Became fully conscious of systemic problems only after meeting other detransitioners, realizing the pattern wasn’t about individual bad doctors, but an overly affirmative, insufficiently cautious system.
  • Quote (Claire Abernathy, 46:28):

    "It was like we were all being made in the same factory. We were so similar...there was a fundamental flaw in the system."

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Message to Parents and Professionals

• Advice to Parents (47:44–48:52):

  • There is "no one answer," but emphasizes the need for parents to listen carefully, interrogate root causes, and provide stable guidance, not just affirmation.
  • States that children cannot truly consent to irreversible medical interventions.

• Quote (Claire Abernathy, 47:44):

  "Every child gets into this because they're hurting. And you have to have the strength, the bravery to listen to what your child is saying, and to what the culture is telling you is the correct thing to do... It's not a child's choice. It's not something a child can consent or agree to. You have to be the adult in the room."

• Current State (48:52–49:47):

  • Claire notes she is medication-free and, while the last year has been difficult, she is now confronting her underlying issues and is more at peace with her identity as a woman.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the transition trend:
  “It was sort of the fashionable way of doing that at the time... It became a trend. Of saying, you know, look, I'm hurting, I'm sad, and I need help.” - Claire Abernathy (18:09)

• On affirmation therapy:
  “My friends... were sent to therapists who took a more cautious approach... I got taken to a therapist who told me within a month of meeting me that this was for sure the right choice for me.” - Claire Abernathy (39:15)

• On the reality of medical interventions:
  “There are no amount of plastic surgeries that is going to ever make someone feel good about themselves... A lot of these transgender medical interventions are the exact same way. It's just another pathway of promoting body dysmorphic disorder.” - Dr. Nicole Saphire (51:07)

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Key Timestamps

• 03:00–07:30: Discussion of statistics, CDC data, and concerns about trans-identifying youth
• 12:43–14:20: Claire describes early feelings of discomfort and group dynamics
• 16:33–18:43: Exploration of Claire’s peer group, mental health, and family backgrounds
• 20:29–23:58: Experiences with therapists and rapid affirmation
• 25:07–30:06: Medical interventions; testosterone and mastectomy at a young age
• 31:06–33:19: Aftermath: persistent mental health struggles and side effects
• 36:27–43:21: Detransitioning, reasons for cessation of hormones, reflections on peer outcomes
• 44:42–46:56: Meeting other detransitioners and recognizing systemic flaws
• 47:44–48:52: Claire’s advice for parents and the need for careful guidance

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Tone and Language

The conversation is raw, empathetic, and forthright. Dr. Saphire approaches the subject as a concerned mother and doctor, seeking honest answers and practical wisdom. Claire speaks candidly, often self-reflective, never preachy or bitter, emphasizing the psychological pain behind her choices and the need for genuine support over affirmation.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a powerful, nuanced window into the often-misunderstood world of childhood gender transition and detransition. Through Claire Abernathy’s story and Dr. Saphire’s probing questions, listeners are encouraged to consider the mental health dimensions, the importance of family support, the pitfalls of hasty affirmation, and the systemic factors driving the current trend. The message is clear: Children need adults willing to investigate the roots of their suffering, not just pursue immediate surgical or hormonal solutions.

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Transcript

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Can you grab one more thing? I'll come back up for you.

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[Claire Abernathy]

Really?

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

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[Claire Abernathy]

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[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Welcome to Wellness Unmass. I'm Dr. Nicole Safire, and today we have a very serious and important topic to discuss, mainly because you're seeing it all over the news cycle. Right now, we're going to be talking to a young woman named Claire who believed that she was transgender as young as when she was in middle school. And we're going to really, you know, I'm going to take off my doctor cap. I just want to hear her story. I want to know what she was thinking, what she was feeling, what were some of the things that were going on around her? You know, did she wake up one morning and just believe that she was a boy? Did she always believe she was a boy? You know, we talk about these cases all the time. I talk about it on tv. I talk about it here on the podcast about being transgender. But at the end of the day, I don't really know what that feels like. And while I can cite statistics to you, I can tell you that, you know, about 3% of all high school students right now are identifying as transgender. How we get that statistic, I don't know, but, I mean, that seems like a very, very large amount compared to when I was younger. And we are only seeing a rise in the number of kids who are questioning their gender, you know, question questioning the sex that they were born. Is this just another fad, or is there something more scientific to it? I can tell you my personal opinion, but my personal opinion. You can take it as you want. My personal opinion is while there really are some people who maybe even from, you know, young childhood, truly do not feel comfortable in their own skin, in the sense that they just don't feel comfortable like they are the gender that they were born to. Now, this is different from those who are born with a certain set of chromosomes, but something happened in utero or something happened with their hormones, and they have different genitalia than from. Or. And different hormones than from what their chromosomes are.

[Claire Abernathy]

That's.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

That's scientific. Okay? But those are extremely rare cases when it comes to being transgender. This is, you know, you are born with the chromosomes of a certain gender. Your body looks like that certain gender. Your hormones inside are that certain gender, but your brain is just telling you, no, I don't want to be. I'm going to be something else. And so it's for those cases that I start to have some concern. And the reason that Is. Is because I have done a lot of deep dives into. I want to look at these individuals. Is there any sort of common factor of kids who are identifying as transgender? And I really just want to focus on the kids in this conversation because, you know, when it comes to adults, at a certain point, your frontal lobe has been developed if you want to make choices. If you're a guy, you want to wear a dress. If you're a girl, you don't want to wear a dress. Whatever. You can get tattoos, you can. You can drink alcohol. At this point, your brain is of the state where you can consent and make decisions. I don't necessarily agree with all their decisions, but you can do it. But when it comes to kids, one of the things that I get very concerned about is when you look at the kids who identify as transgender, a common thread that you see is the whole home life. And the most robust national snapshot came out of the CDC in 2023. Now, it doesn't directly measure, quote, unquote, family structure in detail, but it does capture things like housing instability and safety and violence, um, all things that are highly connected with, you know, stress hormones and just home stressors in general. And so when you look at the CDC's national analysis comparing transgender versus non transgender, or I guess the term is cisgender, I don't know why we have to keep coming up with new terms. But for either kids who identify as trans or kids who don't, if you look at those who have what they refer to as some sort of unstable housing, about 11% of those kids were transgender, compared to 2% in non transgender. And the gap widens even more so if kids were missing school because they felt unsafe in their home environment, 25% transgender, 8% non transgender. And then kids who, if you're looking at our bullied at school, 40% transgender, with about 15% non transgender. So these are big discrepancies. And then if you actually look at now the diagnosed mental health burden plus suicide statistics, it was also quite incredible as well. When you look at the transgender high school students, about 65% of them said that they had poor mental health. About 72% of them had persistent sadness or felt hopelessness. And over half of them seriously considered suicide in the past 12 months, with about 26% of them having attempted suicide. Now, the question is, were they mentally ill before they came out as trans, or did they come out of trans, and then they were dealing with some mental illness? And what I'm seeing over and over again is you have these subset of kids, a lot of them which have some sort of unstable home environment, some sort of home stressor. They're dealing with some mental health issues, maybe some depression, anxiety, even more severe, like a bipolar or borderline disorder. And one thing that they're grabbing onto, because it's a bit of a trend right now and there's a strong support for, is to be transgender. All of a sudden they feel like they are being pulled into a community. But what it seems is happening is, well, now they are coming out as transgender and sometimes they're doing the medications and the surgery, but the mental health issues that were there before they came out as transgender are still there. It wasn't that becoming transgender automatically cured them of what they were already suffering from. In fact, oftentimes it made it worse. And so for me personally, I think it's really important to have empathy for people who are dealing with these situations and not just criticize them because in my opinion, they're coming from a place of suffering and struggling. And so that is why I am very happy to have on today Wellness Unmass Claire Abernathy, who is going to tell us her story.

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[Claire Abernathy]

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[Dr. Nicole Safire]

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[Dr. Nicole Safire]

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[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Well, I'm very excited to have Claire Abernathy on to educate not only me, but everyone listening because this is a very important topic. And while, you know, a lot of people stay away from it because there's a lot of politicization of it, there seems to be a lot of extremes. I think the best thing we can do is educate ourselves so we can make our own opinions. Claire, thank you so much for joining.

[Claire Abernathy]

Thank you for having me.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

So, Claire, I'm going to take my doctor's hat off for a minute. I am just going to try and have this conversation as a mother, as member of my community. Obviously people talk about gender transitioning, transgender. It's gotten a lot of attention pretty much over the last decade, but some people still don't really even know what that means. When you were in, I think, middle school, it was you started having some thoughts regarding your gender. Can you kind of just talk us through that?

[Claire Abernathy]

So whenever I was in the fifth grade, so when I was 11 years old, I had some, some experiences with boys in my class that made me feel uncomfortable with my body. I developed quite early, so people started noticing me in ways that I wasn't used to and wasn't comfortable with. And I was part of a group of girls who were all friends and a couple of them, around the same time, started calling themselves transgender, which basically meant that they. They cut their hair short, and they started wearing, like, more androgynous or masculine clothes. And we used to call that being.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

A tomboy when I was 11.

[Claire Abernathy]

Yeah. You know, everything's got to have a. A new label. But they picked new names, and they started calling themselves boys, and everyone would call them, like, Emily became Colby, and now she's a he. I was kind of curious about this, and I was talking to my friends about it, and one of them offered to lend me a chest binder to make my breasts look flat. And I started doing research online, and I read that, like, you don't even have to feel like a boy. You don't even have to want to be a boy. You can just, like, feel different or not like a girl all the time. You could be non binary or gender fluid. And so I started. The first word that I called myself was gender fluid, and then I was non binary. And then a little after I turned 12, I started calling myself a transgender boy. Let's.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

I want to go back a little bit, because I just really want to understand when you said you developed early, who. I think I've read before that you essentially your chest developed more, maybe more than your peers around you. And I know as a girl who had larger chests when I was growing up, that, yeah, you. You know, it draws a lot of unwanted attention. And so from that, you were getting some of that unwanted attention, it kind of made you uncomfortable. But at any point, did you even feel a sexual orientation at that point? Like, you were attracted to boys or you were attracted to girls, or was it just a general state of being uncomfortable in yourself?

[Claire Abernathy]

I was calling myself bisexual, but I don't know that I even really had a sexuality at that point.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Pretty young.

[Claire Abernathy]

Yeah, I. I mean, like, I had crushes on boys and girls in my class, but, like, if I felt that same way about someone now, I would call that, like, I want to be their friend, not really, like, sexual attraction.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Okay. And so you were kind of feeling this certain way, and you then referred to it as gender fluid and non binary. Can you kind of just talk us through what are those differences and what did that mean to you?

[Claire Abernathy]

So someone who identifies as gender fluid might feel more like a boy one day or more like a girl the other day, and, like, somewhere in between on the third day. What it means to feel like a boy or a girl, that's more complicated. But non binary would be. It's sort of an umbrella term. That encompasses anyone that doesn't feel like they fit into boy or girl labels.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

And so you said you kind of went through both of those and then you considered yourself transgender. So take us through that.

[Claire Abernathy]

Well, I, I, I always kind of had short, shorter hair. Always kind of preferred playing with the boys, dressing more masc, a tomboy, like you said. And around that time, the sort of, the discomfort that I was feeling about my body started getting a lot more extreme, a lot more noticeable. And I was in this group of girls who were quite troubled. A lot of us were autistic or had histories of trauma. And before the trans thing, we all had eating disorders or were cutting ourselves.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Can I ask you, if you looked at that group of friends, what was, what was the home life like for those friends?

[Claire Abernathy]

A lot of us were children of divorce. My parents didn't separate until I was older, but most of my friends did not live in two parent households. A lot of them had drug abuse in the family. One of, one of the, one of my friends, her father was in prison for a sex crime against a child. Not one her, but a different child. Troubled kids, troubled home life. I wouldn't describe my home life in the same way. There was issues with alcoholism in my family. And, you know, they separated eventually, so it wasn't like the happiest. But neither of my parents were in jail for sex crimes.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

There's a big spectrum of home lives. It's not all perfect or not imperfect. There's, there's a big somewhere in between, and that's where most. But I guess my point was there is, when you look at some of the data, those who are trans kids who become transgender, if you look at the home life, sometimes they have higher rates of, as you're saying, divorce or drug use or an absent father or something. Some sort of stressor that, you know, that adolescence, pre adolescence, age is a crucial part of our development, which I want. We're going to get to your development specifically shortly. But it's a time where you really need that emotional support. And it seems like maybe this group of your friends didn't necessarily have the support that maybe they could have used during that time.

[Claire Abernathy]

Yeah, we all kind of were cycling through different means of seeking help, of trying to, like, signal that we were distressed and unhappy to the adults around us. Like I said, a lot of us before the trans thing, we had eating disorders or were cutting ourselves or a whole list of other things. And, you know, it was, that was sort of the fashionable way of doing that at the time of of became a trend. Yeah. Of saying, you know, look, I'm hurting, I'm sad, and I need help, basically.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Okay, so what was the next steps for you? Obviously, you. You wore the chest binder to try and hide your developing breasts. Your hair was maybe shorter. Even shorter. And what else?

[Claire Abernathy]

Well, I started calling myself Tyler, and all my friends did as well.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

How did you settle on Tyler?

[Claire Abernathy]

You know, I don't remember exactly, but the name that I was choosing between T and it was Brady. Brady came from my favorite Disney Channel movie, if that gives you any insight to sort of my thinking at the time. Okay, well, and then they were calling me he. And I had my teachers do that as well. And this was sort of behind my parents backs at this point.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Say, did your parents know anything about that?

[Claire Abernathy]

No. And then.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

And your teachers were fine with it. They were fine calling you Tyler. And he. And did anyone say, are your parents involved? Did anyone, like the school counselor, did anyone try to talk to you about this? Like, what is this? What does this mean to you? And how are you feeling about it? And why aren't your parents involved?

[Claire Abernathy]

My guidance counselor did ask me if my parents knew and were supportive, but that was sort of. It wasn't a. Should I be talking to your parents about this? It was like, are we keeping this a secret? Was basically the vibe I got from that conversation.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Guidance counselor. Counselor was essentially okay with keeping your secret?

[Claire Abernathy]

Yeah. And like, so they were calling me Tyler and he in class and in front of my peers. But my. My real name and she. In, like, messages to my parents, it was. It was a secret.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

And so talk us through the next steps. So it turned from just kind of some superficial stuff to kind of almost feel like game playing at school, keeping secrets. But things got pretty real for you.

[Claire Abernathy]

So When I was 13, my parents found out that I was cutting myself, and they took me a therapist who specialized in, like, adolescent issues. And they had noticed by this point that I was like, that I was binding my chest. I think they, like, they looked through my phone a couple times. They probably saw that I was talking about this with my friends, and so they took me to a therapist who specialized in this kind of issue, like gender. And I went to the intake session with this therapist. She told my parents that I was like, textbook. There was not a doubt in her mind that I was transgender and that my.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

You were cutting before you started being transgender and you're still cutting?

[Claire Abernathy]

Yes.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

So it wasn't like when you were living as a girl then you. This suppressed boy inside of you is causing you to cut. And now that you're starting to live as a boy, you're no longer cutting because you're doing better. The reality is you're suffering or. And you're still suffering. Now you have this therapist saying, class, classic textbook. You're transgender.

[Claire Abernathy]

Okay. I still had a pretty significant eating disorder. I was still cutting myself there.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Wasn't it just added on to you? It's not like it didn't help in any way.

[Claire Abernathy]

Yeah.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

And so from there, what did you do?

[Claire Abernathy]

Well, she told my parents that all of these issues that I was having were because they wouldn't affirm me, that they weren't calling me a boy. And, like, going along with what I said that I wanted. And I don't remember exactly the timeline here, but I stopped seeing this therapist eventually because she practiced, like, an hour and a half away from where we lived. And they took me to a new therapist who was closer. And basically the exact same thing happened. And within the first. So I started seeing this, the second therapist in September of 2018, and the same month, I had my assessment with the gender clinic for starting hormones.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

So your parents, at this point, were supportive of you?

[Claire Abernathy]

They were still somewhat skeptical, but they were calling me Tyler. They were calling me he were still.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Cutting and having eating disorder at this point still?

[Claire Abernathy]

Yes. Not as much. But that wasn't really because I was better. That was kind of just because I found new ways of channeling those feelings. And then. So my parents, they didn't really believe it until I had the assessment with the gender clinic. They thought, you know, these are the experts. These are the people who will know. And I've had many conversations with my mom about this. She was under the impression that I was going to go. I was going to have this assessment with the clinic, and they were going to say, no, it's. It's not. She's not trans. It's something else.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

So your mom had some. She was in denial a bit that this was really going to happen.

[Claire Abernathy]

Yeah, I mean, I wasn't. I. This had come out of nowhere. I was like a very traditional tomboy. I liked playing in the mud and, like, Pokemon. It wasn't. I was never distressed about being a girl until it became fashionable, until all my friends were. But the therapist. Psychologist at the. At the gender clinic, exact same thing. She talked to me for about an hour and a half, and she talked to my parents for about an hour and a half, and then she came back and she said, this is a textbook case of gender dysphoria.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Do you feel when you talk to some of these, the psychologists and the therapists that you're always honest with them, or do you feel like how you really feel deep down or at any point did you answer the questions kind of how you think that they may have wanted you to answer them, to kind of confirm and affirm the fact that you were trying to be transgender?

[Claire Abernathy]

Here's the thing. So I was always honest with my therapist. I never made anything up. But the way that these online clicks and like the. The friend groups work is that it entirely warps your self perception, both present and past. So, like me playing in the mud and preferring to be with the boys and not liking my period when I got who. What girl likes getting her period became something that it wasn't. It became abnormal in my mind. It became something that was a sign.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Distorted way of thinking, of taking stuff that are very normal feelings, twisting them. So you were at the gender clinic. At what point did you actually start taking medications or actually doing something to physically alter yourself?

[Claire Abernathy]

When I was 13, it put me on Depo Provera, which is a kind of birth control to stop my periods. A week after I turned 14, two months after I started seeing that first or the second therapist, they put me on testosterone. And that, you know, it permanently changed my voice within a couple months, caused, like, reproductive issues.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Did you like the way that this normal, the new hormones made you feel?

[Claire Abernathy]

It gave me a kind of energy. It made me feel like stronger and more testosterone. Yeah. But my goal with going into it, I don't think it was ever. I wanted to be a different person. I wanted to change who I was. So I wasn't really thinking about whether how my voice was changing or, like, my new body hair or the changes going on with my, like, anatomy were making me happier. That wasn't something I was really concerned with or thinking about. It was, I look different, I sound different. So I'm. That that was the goal in and of itself, was not looking and sounding like me anymore.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

When did you decide to go for the mastectomy?

[Claire Abernathy]

That was something that I wanted to begin with. I told the therapist and the psychologist at the gender clinic that I wanted that the first time I met with them. And mainly because you had already had.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

This, you know, you didn't. Weren't happy with your breasts for years at this point, before you even started having conversations about being gender fluid or whatever it is. You didn't like having your breasts?

[Claire Abernathy]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I started developing at nine Years old. It was fairly early and fast. And by the time I was 14 and going in for the mastectomy, I had, like, triple D breasts. They removed almost 10 pounds of tissue.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Any point did the plastic surgeon who performed this have any conversations with you about a reduction because you had such large breasts, saying, perhaps we start with a reduction to give you normal sized breasts for your age and go from there? Or was that ever a conversation?

[Claire Abernathy]

No, I didn't learn what a breast reduction was until almost two years after I had the mastectomy.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

This was a plastic surgeon? Just a local plastic surgeon?

[Claire Abernathy]

Yeah, he was. He was local. A renowned surgeon that I was aware of. Since sort of looking into this phenomenon more, I've learned that he's actually the third most prolific provider of transgender surgeries on children according to the do no Harm database. So he was. He was busy.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

So you had your double mastectomy. What was that like when you woke up?

[Claire Abernathy]

It was. I was on a significant amount of psychiatric medication at the time. Like, I was on Adderall for ADHD and Wellbutrin and Zoloft. I don't remember if I was on Zoloft or Lexapro at that time, but I was. I was on one of those. And the. The WellButrin and the SSRI were for anxiety and depression, and I was on fairly high doses of these. So I didn't really have many strong feelings about anything. I remember the day that I got the bandages taken off after the mastectomy because, you know, wrapped really tightly in ACE bandages and like sort of a post surgical compression shirt. And I cried that day, sort of. Everyone in the room assumed that it was happy tears, like relief, but I'm not sure really what I was feeling. It wasn't long after the surgery. Surgery that I started being ashamed of the way that it looked.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Mastectomy scars are quite. People think, you know, for some who get the reconstruction, it's just getting like getting a boob job. But it's absolutely not. I mean, they are Frankenstein scars all across your entire chest. Like it is. It's quite jarring.

[Claire Abernathy]

I looked like I was sawed in half. I mean, I had, like I said, I had very large breasts. My scars went from, like, towards the back of my underarms all the way, and they almost connect in the middle. And there was issues post op. The surgeon that I went to does drains free procedures. And so I had a lot of bruising and swelling because the fluid didn't really have anywhere to go. And that also caused the nipple grafts that I got to reject. And I didn't know that that was like an increased risk due to the drains free procedure. I knew that like there, obviously with any surgery there's a risk of like excessive swelling or like internal bleeding, but I didn't realize that the specific kind of surgery that I was having was a more serious risk of that.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

And he told you that there was a risk of losing those nipple grafts or them not working?

[Claire Abernathy]

Yes, but I was told on that it was around like 2% of surgeries that have this. It's actually significantly more common among the drains free procedures. And I was told that it's almost only observable. It almost exclusively happens among people who smoke. And I was 14 and had never touched a cigarette before, so I, I wasn't concerned about it. It wasn't, it wasn't really on my radar as a real risk.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

So after your scars healed and now you had been on hormones, so you've done chemical alterations now you've done some surgical alterations, were you able to get off all of those medications that you were on for your anxiety and your depression? You had your family accepting you. Obviously that's how you were able to get this done. Your school, your friends were all accepting this. You were reaching your goals of becoming, quote, unquote, transgender. Did all of those mental health issues miraculously go away?

[Claire Abernathy]

No, I remained on the anti depressants. The amount of psychiatric medication that I was on went up significantly after all of this. They took sort of surveys at each. I had to go to the gender clinic every three months so they could assess my blood work. And when I, when I would go to these appointments, they would give me a little questionnaire where it would ask me, have you had suicidal thoughts in the last 30 days? Have you thought of yourself as a burden or that it would be better if you weren't here in the past 30 days, et cetera. And like I, I've gotten my records now and I've looked at them and those questionnaires showed that my. At first it's, it's a score out of 10. At the 10 being the highest risk for like suicide, the most unwell and zero being the least. My first appointment, I was like a three. And then it went down to zero and then it slowly declined at the, this, the first follow up appointment when.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

I was like after your, after your surgery.

[Claire Abernathy]

After I started the hormones.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

The. After the hormones. Okay, okay.

[Claire Abernathy]

And then it steadily got worse.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Maybe the excitement of it, all of this new, something new helped those scores. But then reality set in and realizing.

[Claire Abernathy]

It didn't really affect and you know, from one to three months, zero to three months, there's not significant changes to the body whenever you start. At the dose that I was starting on, I was 14. They didn't need to put me on an adult dose. At three months, my voice was barely starting to change. There was barely a difference in like anything really. I just felt better because I was developing muscle faster and like I had more energy. And then reality started kicking in. I started there was pain a lot of the time. Like in my pelvic floor. There was serious cramping just randomly throughout the day. I would get hot flashes. My throat just hurt all the time. And they told me that this was all normal and that it would get better. But it never got better.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

You're listening to Wellness en Masse. We'll be right back with more.

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[Dr. Nicole Safire]

So at what point after some of these medical interventions did you start questioning them?

[Claire Abernathy]

Stopped taking the testosterone shortly before I turned 17. So a little bit before I was would have been three years on on them.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

How long after the surgery was that?

[Claire Abernathy]

I had the surgery six months after I started the hormones. So like two and a half years. Ish. That's when I stopped taking the hormones. But I didn't. I'm not really sure what I was feeling internally. I was still on a significant amount of psychiatric drugs. I was still like I wasn't in therapy at this point. I stopped seeing the therapist before I even had the surgery. So I was kind of just coasting and numb due to the medications.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Who was prescribing all these medications?

[Claire Abernathy]

I had a psychiatrist, but really those were just like 15 minute appointments every month or so to refill the drugs. It wasn't a therapeutic relationship. And whenever I stopped taking the hormones, I'm not sure what I was feeling internally about it, but what I told the Gender clinic. And what I told my parents was that I just liked where my voice was and I didn't want it to change anymore and I didn't want any more body hair and that I was concerned about being able to have children in the future. And so that's why I stopped taking them.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

So you stopped taking them because you were satisfied with how you looked at that time. But also it started, you know, you started wondering about having kids in the future.

[Claire Abernathy]

Yeah.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

What were your parents like when you decided to stop?

[Claire Abernathy]

This was never something that we talked about extensively together. I've never really had a very open relationship with my parents. They kind of outsourced that to my therapists. But, I mean, at this point I wasn't seeing a therapist, so I was kind of just talking about it with my friends or like thinking about it myself. I don't really have a documentation. I don't remember really.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

The friends that were in this friend group of yours who were also kind of going through at the same time, did they do the same thing as you go to the gender clinic, hormones, surgery, or, you know, where were you at level?

[Claire Abernathy]

There was like a little less than a year where my parents ignored it. Mostly that. That this was all happening. And that's mostly what my friend's parents did. They just like pretended it wasn't happening and assumed that it would go away on its own. And they were right. These girls that I was friends with, two of them still identify as non binary, but like, fully present as girls or women. Now there was. I had one friend who still identifies as trans and is medicalized now as an adult.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Why do you think you pursued it at such a young age and they did not. What pathway kind of pushed you to go to the gender clinic?

[Claire Abernathy]

And not that I was sent to the wrong therapist is really the only difference. My friends, their parents either ignored it or sent them to therapists who took a more cautious approach, who said, you know, let's wait a couple years and revisit, see how you feel about it then, or recommended against, tried to help them feel better about how they were. And I got taken to a therapist who told me within, within a month of meeting me that this was for sure the right choice for me. And that was really the only difference. No one I like. I was going to this support group for families with trans kids. You would not have looked at me compared to any of these other kids and said, this one's special in any way. You wouldn't have looked at me and said, this one is for sure. Trans and all the rest aren't. And you also would not have looked at them and me and said, this one's going to detransition in the future and the rest aren't. We were. We were the same.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

You said something very interesting right there, where you said, there's nothing special about you. Which, by the way, as a mother, I hate hearing a young person say that. But I understand what you were saying in the sense that if you looked around the room, you know, everyone was kind of in a similar state. I find it very interesting that you were in this friend group. You were all kind of trying out this fad and this trend, and it was all about who you went to. One, how the parents responded. And it seems like they all kind of did the same thing. They're like, we're going to ignore it, just like we do a lot of other things that our kids are doing at that time that we know are probably just a trend. But the therapist that you went to, instead of really just talking to you about all the things that you were going through, the eating disorder, the cutting, the medication you're on, they're like, we're just going to double down on this idea of being trans and kind of like leading you blindly through this venture instead of actually looking at the root causes of your suffering.

[Claire Abernathy]

Yeah, I mean, there wasn't. I wasn't the worst cutter. I didn't have the most obvious dangerous eating disorder. I. I wasn't. I wasn't uniquely suffering. I was. I was a particularly edgy teenager, angsty, but I wasn't unique in that way. All the kids around me were. And all of them, except one or three, depending on how you want to look at it, have desisted. They're only one of them is presenting as trans still. And this is out of like 20 kids, maybe.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

So you had been on the hormones for a few years. You had your bilateral mastectomy. You decided at that some point after a couple of years after that, you wanted to stop the hormones. You were okay with where your body was. Your mental health medications were higher doses than they had been before. You certainly didn't have a relief from your mental suffering. At what point did you kind of look at the situation or did you ever feel like maybe this was a mistake?

[Claire Abernathy]

I would not have used that language. At some point, I realized this wasn't for me. The point where I started presenting more as a girl again was shortly after I stopped taking the hormones. I was either 16 or 17 and I got my first crush On a boy. Like, a real crush. And I realized at that point that I wanted him to treat me like a girl, that I wanted to, like, be courted, I guess you could say.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Did he know you as Tyler when.

[Claire Abernathy]

He first met me? Yes. But shortly after I met him, I started going by a more feminine name, and I think I started calling myself non binary. But then I.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Your actual given birth name or did you come up with a different name?

[Claire Abernathy]

I came up with a different name that was kind of androgynous, but feminine for certain. And, like, I started. I started. I was kind of goth at this point, so it wasn't terribly unusual for someone that is seen as a guy to be wearing, like, eyeliner. But I started wearing makeup, and eventually I started wearing dresses and just progressively more and more feminine.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

So I have a question for you. Were you wanting to be feminine because you were wanting to be a girl, or, like, wearing dresses and makeup like Harry Styles and Bad Bunny do? Just to be ironic, I wanted to.

[Claire Abernathy]

Be seen as a girl, particularly by this specific boy. Shortly after this all started happening, there was. This was 2022 or 2023, not exactly sure. They. The Attorney General, Ken Paxton of Texas, put out a notice, basically, that transitioning children already counted as child abuse under the state's definition. They hadn't passed a law yet saying that it was illegal to transition kids medically. So it wasn't a crime for the doctors at this point. And so whenever you say that, what that means is that the parents are going to get investigated. And my mom worked as a guidance counselor at a middle school. And if you have an open CPS case against you, you can lose your job. And so we sort of overnight just packed everything up and moved to Maryland, where my older sister lives. And I started at a whole new school. And I was like. I was. I'd been off of the hormones for a good few months at this point, and I just started the new school as a girl.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

And what did you call yourself?

[Claire Abernathy]

Cast.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

So why didn't you go back to your original name?

[Claire Abernathy]

Because I was scared. I think I was scared of really acknowledging it. There were a lot of memories associated with the name as well that I didn't want to bring up. Basically, at some point when I was 17, I started looking into breast reconstruction, and I. I called three different surgeons, and none of them would have a consultation with me. They wouldn't even, like, talk to me on the phone because I wasn't 18, but I was three years post prostectomy. And then when I was 18. I ended up having the reconstruction. I mean, at this point, I still didn't recognize. I didn't see the forest for the trees. Basically. It was wrong for me. It wasn't the right choice for me. My doctors were too hasty. My doctors didn't assess me properly, not maybe this is bad to do to kids. That didn't come until 1920, December of 2024, I went to my first public event as a detransitioner. It was the Skremetti rally outside the U.S. capitol. And I met other detransitioners for the first time. Um, I met Elle Palmer that day and Laura Becker and Chloe Cole. And we all just like, hit it off immediately. We were. All of us had such similar stories. Like, we all. It was like we were all being made in the same factory. We were so similar. And at that point, I realized that it wasn't me. It wasn't that my doctors were bad because, I mean, Elle is from Montana. Chloe's from California. Laura's from. Well, now she lives in Arizona. I'm not sure where she's from originally. This is all across the country that this is happening, that the exact same type of girl is getting put down this pathway so fast. And at that point, it became impossible to deny anymore that. To just write it off as I had a bad doctor. I realized at that point that there was a fundamental flaw in the system.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Makes the line, this isn't just a moment, it's a movement stand true. It was pretty good realization, I think. So you've obviously come out. You're very. You're now public about this, and not in a preachy way of, you can't do this. You're not trying to seem superior to anybody else. You're just wanting to get the truth out there and talk about your stuff, you know, what is your message to parents? I mean, I have colleagues who have children who are. They consider themselves trans or they're talking about it. You know, I have friends who know. You know, for anybody listening here, like, what is your message when someone comes to them, particularly a child? You know, I'm not necessarily talking about the adults at this point. Adults can do what they want to do. I don't agree with what they do in various forms, but particularly when it comes to kids who are having the conversation about being trans. What's your message?

[Claire Abernathy]

There is no one answer. There's no one good course of action. Every child gets into this because they're hurting. And you have to have the. The strength, the bravery to Listen to what your child is saying and to what the culture is telling you is the correct thing to do. And you have to say that you know your child best. If you're a parent, you have to be willing to listen to what the actual cause of these issues is, is you have to interrogate that you can't just go along with what your child says. That's not. Children are still learning. They're testing the waters of, like, what they can get away with, what is acceptable. And you have to guide them in that. You can't let them take the reins on something as consequential as removing healthy parts of their body or like, permanently changing their. Their voice and the way their reproductive anatomy works. It's not a child's choice. It's not something a child can consent or agree to. You have to be the adult in the room.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Are you doing now with some of your mental health struggles as you have gone through all of these various transitions?

[Claire Abernathy]

Well, I'm not on psychiatric medication anymore. Have had a rough year, we'll say. But I am in a much better place than I was when all of this was going down. I'm living in reality now. I'm confronting the actual things that led me to this point to begin with. Instead of looking for a Band Aid solution that will, like, that was. That was what the transition was, and that was what really, the early stages of my detransition were as well. I was. I was trying to cover up my issues. I was trying to hide from them and not have to address the meat of the problem. And I've moved past that now. And I can say that I am a woman and that I always will be and that I'm happy the way that I am and that I like who I am.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

To hear that, thank you so much for being so raw and so honest with us today. I think it's just really important that people understand some of these terms and what people go through, because we. We kind of chalk it up and say, well, it's just a fad, it's just a trend, but these are people's lives that we're talking about. And it's just very important to approach them very cautiously.

[Claire Abernathy]

Thank you for having me.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

That was a very heavy conversation, but it was raw, it was honest, and it's reality, and it. It's not just. As Claire said, she's not the only one who's struggling with it. She actually met some of her people. She said it felt like they were made from the same factory. There's a lot of kids out there who are struggling. And unfortunately, there are silos right now of getting these kids into gender clinics and surgeries and all of these medical interventions that can be permanent. And in Claire's situation, you know, she had a bilateral mastectomy, and this all started really because she hated having such a large chest at a early age. Yes, she struggled from mental illness, but at what point, why didn't someone have that conversation with her about a breast reduction? Why was the only. The only solution for her was to take off her breasts entirely? It's very sad. And I'll tell you, it really broke my heart many times throughout that interview to hear her talk about how she didn't like herself. She kept wanting to change her name because of bad memories. And what I heard over and over again from Claire was that she was just trying to be somebody else. And as a mom, that just breaks my heart, because all we want is for our kids to be healthy, happy, and safe. And so if a child is feeling uncomfortable in their own skin, as a parent, as the adults around her, as the medical professionals, she needed to be worked with on a much deeper level to get her to the place where she feels comfortable in her own skin. There are no amount of plastic surgeries that is going to ever make someone feel good about themselves. That's why we have body dysmorphic disorder. And you see people who are addicted to plastic surgery. A lot of these transgender medical interventions are the exact same way. It's just another pathway of promoting body dysmorphic disorder. And we have to focus on the mental health in our youth. It has gotten so much worse than it was 10, 20 years ago. And a lot of this has to do with the online communities, social media, Covid. And if we don't declare mental health to be a national emergency in our youth, this will only get worse, and we will only see more people suffering. Thank you so much for tuning in to Wellness unmass with Dr. Nicole Safai. I am Dr. Nicole Safire. Be sure to tune in every week on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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