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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Wellness Unmasked: Healthy Snacking, Sugar Guidelines & Lipedema Awareness with Switch CEO Susie Boshoff
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- [00:00]
Angie Hicks
Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S and P. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available@public.com Disclosures hi, I'm Angie.
- [01:10]
Hicks, co founder of Angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair done well Kitchen sink install done well Deck upgrades done well Electrical Upgrade done well. Angie's been connecting homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years, so we know the difference between done and done well. Hire high quality pros@angie.com did you know.
- [01:40]
Dr. Nicole Safire
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- [02:17]
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- [02:49]
Dr. Nicole Safire
Welcome to Wellness on Mass. I'm Dr. Nicole Safire and today we're talking about nutrition guidance. It's been all over the news. I'm sure you've heard about it. The new food piece pyramid. It's great thing. I support it widely. I'm so glad to see that we're flipping the script. We're talking about eating whole natural foods again, healthy fats, pure grains, and getting rid of these sugars and ultra processed foods because as we know, those have driven up obesity, metabolic disorders and others. But the reality is one size does not fit all. Not everyone is created equally and not everybody can metabolize and digest food the same way. So even with this new and improved updated food pyramid, especially those dealing with metabolic conditions such as lipedema, these guidelines might fall a little short. So we're going to break down what the pyramid gets right where it misses a little bit and why understanding fat biology, inflammation and hormone signaling matters far more than counting grains on a plate. Very excited today to have on Susie Bashoff, who is the founder and CEO of swich, which is a company that is trying to get unhealthy things out of our snacks and present healthier options so you don't feel like you're missing out. It's been a huge news cycle, Susie, the last few weeks with we have all the milk ads, now we have the new food pyramid. What's your take on it all?
- [04:18]
Susie Bashoff
I'm kind of loving it. As a mother and a grandmother, I have four kids and I have six grandchildren. And honestly, the food and dietary guidelines I've been fighting against for so long because they have so many allowed things that really humans shouldn't be eating in terms of processed ingredients. And also being in the food space now, I'm finding a whole different kettle of fish. So the wording in this, in the guidelines, I really love and I hope people take it to heart. In terms of the added sugar.
- [04:57]
Dr. Nicole Safire
In which wording? What do you mean?
- [04:59]
Susie Bashoff
The wording and the wording in the new dietary guidelines. It's a really easy read. I don't know if, if everybody's going to dive into it or they're going to assume it's really complicated, but it's not. They reduce the guidelines on the limits of added sugar, which I thought was pretty exciting because, you know, I, I run into this battle all the time of like, sugar in moderation's fine. So a granola bar, for example, might have 12 or 16 grams of sugar. People don't realize that 4 grams of sugar is a teaspoon. And the human body handling, especially a little body. You know, I have a granddaughter who just turned five, and if she has a granola bar and it has 12 or 16 grams of sugar in it, she's getting three to four teaspoons of sugar for her little body. And she's so little, like, it's just not, it's just not a healthy option. So the idea that there's a little more education in there is kind of exciting to me. And then Whole Foods, please. Yes, more Whole Foods. Like that is the most exciting thing to me even. Which sounds weird coming from a, a company that like creates a packaged food. But the truth of it is, is we live in a society where convenience is gonna matter. You know, my kids are all grown, as I mentioned before, but my, my youngest daughter, like in her early 30s, and she's always on the go, go, go. And she'll call me and be like, mom, I don't know how to eat healthy when I'm running from one place to the other across the city. And I'm like, okay, here's some things you can take with you. But it's like, it's limited. Even when we travel. I don't always, I'm not always perfect when we travel if I didn't pack enough snacks, you know, so creating, that's the thing, right?
- [06:50]
Dr. Nicole Safire
Snacks, especially for kids. Like, we always have to have snacks for them. And having fresh fruits and vegetables. Packing snacks are hard.
- [06:58]
Susie Bashoff
Yeah, well, and everybody knows, I mean, as a mom, I know, you know, when you put a banana in a lunchbox. Stop. It's just everything else in the lunchbox is going to smell like and tastes like bananas. So, like, what are you going to put in these things when they're, when they're quick or they're on the go, or if you're going to take your kids to a theme park or you're going to the movies or, or. And you want to limit some of those processed ingredients. I love that they specifically called out petrochemical additives. I had an interesting conversation and I think it's worth having because I, I think that we are used to words in our food system that we become numb. Like artificial flavors. Okay. We've always had artificial flavors. What's the problem with that? Or artificial colors. Okay. Like. No, these are colors and flavors that are derived from, from coal tar, from petroleum based chemical ingredients that somehow manage to taste or look pretty. Right? Taste Good. Or look pretty? I have a question. Which processes in your body are designed to utilize and be nourished by petrochemicals?
- [08:06]
Dr. Nicole Safire
None, actually.
- [08:08]
Susie Bashoff
Right, Exactly.
- [08:09]
Dr. Nicole Safire
At least I didn't learn of any in medical school.
- [08:11]
Susie Bashoff
No, for sure. So that's. So that, to me, is. It's just an education point that we're always fighting against anyway. But now the gu. Make it a little easier, I think.
- [08:20]
Dr. Nicole Safire
All right.
- [08:20]
Susie Bashoff
I don't think it's perfect, but I think. But I. But I'm delighted with it.
- [08:24]
Dr. Nicole Safire
And you. You actually kind of alluded that you thought it was missing something. What would you. What do you think it falls short of these new dietary guidelines?
- [08:33]
Susie Bashoff
So there's a lot of. There's a lot of talk about the cholesterol issue and things like that. I also think that in terms of current research, as far as the metabolism goes and metabolic health, which affects so many disease pathways that we are experiencing today, I do believe that it has a lot to do with insulin, and it has a lot to do with blood sugar management. And I would have liked to see a little more nuanced discussion on that, because this is what we're dealing with, is we're dealing with a metabolic issue, you know, and as somebody who's in the field that you're in, I'm sure you get to see it firsthand also on the ground. And there's so many different components to our health in an environment where we have so many toxins and we have so many. We're. We're getting bombarded by so many things that a human body was not designed to be bombarded by. So whatever we can do in terms of feeding the body in a way that's more nourishing and helps to give it its own little armor, if you will, would be amazing. So I do think that there could be a little bit more in there on the metabolic thing. Um, I wasn't delighted by the cap on the saturated fat, because I personally don't. That's not where I live. But I think that it's a good guideline to give somebody as a base that they can kind of go from.
- [09:59]
Dr. Nicole Safire
Yeah, I. I agree with you. In terms of. It's. It's still a little bit carb heavy. So one of the big things that I noticed is, you know, the old food pyramid, it would stack it into food categories. Grains, fruits, and vegetables. Whereas here, they're like, let's. Let's throw out this whole food pyramid category and let's just look at your plate. You should have A quarter this, a quarter this, a quarter this, and a quarter this. The problem is having like a quarter of grains. I mean, if you're talking about intact whole grains, that's very different than ultra processed grains. And ultra processed grains are high, way too carb heavy, especially those with insulin resistance, obesity, and metabolic diseases. You're saying so. And then also the meats as well, you know, they just lump together proteins. But obviously a steak is very different than a filet of salmon. And so, you know, I think it's important to kind of have some of these caveats. Like someone with renal disease cannot eat a lot of that red meat. And we do actually have adequate data that shows smoked red meat does result in a rise in colon cancer. So, you know, I think it's a balance, and I don't think we can generalize it as much. You know, people aren't created equally, meats aren't created equally. And so it's a good starting ground. I was very happy with it. But, you know, is it perfect? Absolutely not. But, you know, you have been very outspoken, and one of the reasons I wanted you to come on is because I like introducing new topics to people. You personally have suffered with a condition that I've heard about and I know about, but I think the majority of people walking around out there don't know about it, even some people who may have it. Can you talk to us a little bit about it?
- [11:41]
Susie Bashoff
Yeah. So I was diagnosed, gosh, I think in 2011, maybe 2012, with Lipedema. And real quick.
- [11:52]
Dr. Nicole Safire
And lipedema is not lymphedema. I have talked about lymphedema being someone who works in breast cancer. And lymphedema is when your lymphatic channels block up and you get swelling. So from surgery, radiation, whatever, be lymphedema, very different. Continue.
- [12:09]
Susie Bashoff
Yeah, but what's amazing about that, I actually.
- [12:12]
Dr. Nicole Safire
Lymphedema can cause lymphedema.
- [12:13]
Susie Bashoff
Yeah, I'm. My. My official diagnosis is lipolymphedema, meaning that I have primary lipedema. And so lipedema affects one in nine women. It's estimated it has genetic components, but. And it usually hits women during. It affects primarily women. In rare cases, there are men with lipedema, actually, but it's mostly something that affects women. And. And the way you kind of can tell is our body shape is a little bit different, and it'll usually hit at puberty and then other major hormonal moments. So.
- [12:50]
Dr. Nicole Safire
So lipedema, like, what are your. What are symptoms.
- [12:53]
Susie Bashoff
So some of the symptoms are the way, the way the body shapes. So after I hit puberty, my thighs got like big enough that it was alarming for me. And yes, very curvy, but also intimidating because I was only, you know, 11 and a half, almost 12, and suddenly I had this, these like very dramatic curves. But my legs actually hurt. And as I got older and the lipedema progressed, it changed the shape of my legs. So sometimes you'll see a woman who's got legs where they don't have a defined knee area, that's most of us. And then sometimes they won't even have a defined ankle and it'll almost be like an ankle cuff. And all of that is tissue that's different. So what's really interesting about lipedema specifically is it's not even that it's weird fat, which is what they used to think it was, but it's a, it's a tissue disturbance that actually is intercellular. So there's this inflammation that's driving so intense that it actually can over time damage the lymphatic system. And we're definitely soggier, we weigh way more than other people. But then you start getting tenderness in your legs and it could be something as simple as a cat jumping on your lap and suddenly it hurts or spontaneous bruising. And so that was kind of how it started with me. But it had gotten to the point where my actual mobility was at risk. Like genuinely, I was in so much pain systemically that I was having difficulty walking. And at that time I was a whole food plant based vegan trying to just figure out how to get my body feeling better. And I wasn't even eating processed foods or anything then either. It's like I was trying to eat very, very clean. But yeah, it was rough on my body. And then I got diagnosed by a leading authority and I was shocked because I had never heard of lipedema. And we're really good at hiding our legs. So as women with lipedema, we think we're like this weird anomaly, but we're really not. And the more women share their legs, the more you kind of see. I have a blog called Lipedema Living, which is just my journey with lipedema and my effort to try to educate people on it more. So, and I shared. There's a picture of me in a bathing suit, which was a really humbling moment. And at one moment I almost didn't post the picture. And my husband was standing behind me and he was like, why aren't you going to post it? And I said, because I'm baring myself to the Internet like the whole world. And he was like, but if you don't share it, other women like you won't know that there's other women like you. And I was like, okay, publish. So there it is.
- [15:39]
Dr. Nicole Safire
You're listening to Wellness Unmass. We'll be right back with more Support.
- [15:44]
Angie Hicks
For the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you try transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member finra SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comdisclosures Now I'd.
- [16:53]
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- [17:55]
Angie Hicks
Co founder of Angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair done well. Kitchen sink install done well. Deck upgrades done well. Electrical Upgrade done well. Angie's been connecting homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years. Years. So we know the difference between done and done well. Hire high quality pros@angie.com.
- [18:25]
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- [18:56]
Dr. Nicole Safire
Well, let me give a put my doctor's cap on for a second and just give people rundown. Lipedema at the very basic sense is just an abnormal accumulation of fat cells, particularly in the lower extremities. So someone could have very large legs, but their upper, their arms and their waist can seem very normal. A lot of people don't know that they even have this because they just consider themselves overweight. But no matter what they do, they can lose weight and they can get very thin up top. Their legs don't respond. And that is because, you know, as we're hearing from Susie, that it's really an abnormal accumulation of these cells and these cells retain water and they create inflammation and then it can compress the lymphatic system and you can get a lymphatic, you know, backup, which can create even more swelling. And it is a very difficult and painful emotionally and physically condition to have. And women, you know, we're very hard on ourselves and you know, especially our legs. I was a gymnast. I've always had larger thighs and so I've always, back in the day, I've always covered up my thighs because we're self conscious about it. But unless you talk about some of these things, you know, you may have a medical condition that's undiagnosed. Now, unfortunately there's not actually a lot of treatments for it, right Susie?
- [20:16]
Susie Bashoff
Oh, there are now. It's kind of exciting. There was a standard of care that was released and then I really and I haven't actually read all of it. Cause it's pretty technical and it's pretty amazing. But there is just a groundbreaking study in the last couple of months that just came out. There was an international congress on it. Because obviously it doesn't only affect Americans. I've had multiple surgeries. So there is some stuff that you can do. First of all, you want to minimize inflammation first and foremost, because that is the biggest driver for sure. My theory is that lipedema is somewhat protective. Meaning even though many women with lipedema may be obese or morbidly obese, we don't tend to get diabetes and we don't tend to get the normal markers that you would expect from that kind of weight differential. It's so interesting. And we always. We do weigh more than people think we weigh because we're so. We're so filled with fluid. So we do wear compression. That's one of the things. And obviously dry brushing, all of the stuff that you would do for lymphatic care. Because the reality is, is that as it does progress, the lymphedema itself can be pretty intense. And I have found that by limiting my carbs and not having sugar, I don't experience the lymphedema aspect of it. In conjunction with wearing my compression, I try to get into a pool or a spa because of the volume of compression for that kind of movement is a little bit incredible. I'm also part of a monthly panel. I'm a repeating guest. I've been for over five years. That's from Lympha Press, which is a lymphatic pump that you. You may or may not be familiar with it, but it's pretty fascinating to me. But they do that pneumatic compression device so that women can help to alleviate all of that extra fluid and pressure. So for me, it's a multifaceted thing. I try to tackle it with good diet. I try not to. I try to avoid obesogens. We don't have to get into all of that, but is, you know, it does interrupt the hormone process, which is the last thing that we need as somebody who's already has this disorder. Lipedema can also. Is one of the other comorbidities that's not uncommon is Ehlers Danlos, the hypermobile Ehlers Danlos. So there's something wrong with our subcutaneous tissue. We get.
- [22:48]
Dr. Nicole Safire
We're.
- [22:48]
Susie Bashoff
We're leaky veinage as well. Leaky veins. It's very. It's very interesting. And I. And if it's not managed. You can't eat the standard American diet if you're a foodie. And you just.
- [23:01]
Dr. Nicole Safire
I don't think anybody should eat the standard American diet.
- [23:04]
Susie Bashoff
Oh, for sure. But I think some young people, and they're getting more savvy with this generation, which I'm kind of excited by. I think that they see the progress that's happening with the generation right before them. So, like, my grown kids are more interested in like, okay, how do I avoid some of the complications that I watch mom go through? Because obviously, you know, when I was younger as a mom, we had the food guidelines. So I was always like, oh, I need to make sure I buy bread and I need to make sure that I'm using a whole fruit jelly with the peanut butter. You know, carving my kids out and then sending them to school and being like, have a good day.
- [23:46]
Dr. Nicole Safire
Well, I think it's great. And as you mentioned, you know, this does run in the family. So by, you know, people acknowledging that they may have this, knowing that there is a medical component to it, may help with some of the mental health aspect as well. And as you're saying, there are treatments. When I went to medical school, didn't. There weren't very many treatments for it other than compression and trying to lose weight. But, you know, they seem to have a better understanding now. I think there's still ways to go. But I'm very grateful that you spoke up about it. You posted that picture of you because by embracing, you really does help other people. So I appreciate it.
- [24:21]
Susie Bashoff
Yeah, I hope so. And also, just as a fun thing from a view viewpoint of palpating and understanding for yourself, if somebody suspects that they may have it. One of the things in the early stages is like, if you're palpating the area, you can find that sometimes it'll be lumpy and in the beginning stages when the tissue starts changing, it'll be like grains of rice. And then later it'll be like a bag of beans, literally. I had surgery where they actually removed some of the lipedema nodules because over time that turns into nodules and it messes with the fascia and the whole loose connective tissue disease aspect of it is what it's called now more than anything else. But it will create these little fibroid things. I had surgery in 2023 and they were manually removing some of the nodules and like, one of them shot out of my shin, my shin, which is not a high fat area. And it hit the camera and made a knocking Noise. And it was the first time my husband was like, oh, is this why you're in so much pain? I was like, well, yeah. It'd be like having a dozen, you know, bullet size things under your tissue so you can kind of see how it would damage the delicate lymphatic system over time if it progresses. But there are beautiful things that we can do. And then we have a really amazing community. So if women find themselves curious about that, we have resources we did not have a decade ago. And it's kind of phenomenal.
- [25:54]
Dr. Nicole Safire
Well, that's great. Susie. Where can people find you if they want to learn more about you?
- [25:59]
Susie Bashoff
Well, they can. I mean, they can read that blog that I was telling you about, but they can also. I also blog at 365 Days of Awesome. And it's just my effort to create a more awesome life. And I just share random things on like sustainable non toxic living and you know, my thoughts with the Internet. And then my company, which is a sugar free candy company and all of that, that's called switchsweets.com and that we have. My big thing is making sure that there's no blood sugar impact in any of the products and that there's no ingredients that drive inflammation. So I was pretty intense in the formulation of each of my products. And then that kind of led me into this space because I was like, our food system is so dirty, but not even just the end foods, but what goes into making them. So that's kind of what led me into this whole journey of trying to create a snack food or convenient foods that are better for you, but not just that, but also to inspire other founders that have great ideas. Because I do think that there's always gonna be a place for convenient foods. I don't know how in this modern life that that's gonna go away completely and it needs to be accessible for everybody. So I'm hoping to create a better path in that arena, but also help other founders that want to do similar things, because I think we can. There's always a path to something that's better, but it's a matter of taking the time to research it and maybe not being so profit driven that we're willing to forego human health as a byproduct of that.
- [27:35]
Dr. Nicole Safire
Well, you just summed up Big Food in a nutshell. Yes. I mean, it is very profit driven, all about decreasing expenses at the expense of human health. But that's a whole nother conversation. So, Susan, thank you so much for joining. For all you're doing and for sharing your story because I'm certain it's helping others.
- [27:52]
Susie Bashoff
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.
- [27:54]
Dr. Nicole Safire
Okay, so my takeaway nutrition guidelines, they're a starting point, but they're not a diagnosis and not something that we need to follow to the max. And if you're dealing with something like lipedema or just stubborn weight that doesn't respond to, you know, standard diet and exercise, it's probably not a failure of willpower. It's your body working against you physiology. You may have lipedema. Food should be supporting our metabolic health. We should also use food to reduce inflammation and work with our bodies, not against it. But if you find yourself doing all the right things, you're following the new food pyramid. You're cutting out those ultra processed crap. You're exercising and you still have stubborn fat, especially in your legs, especially if it's associated with pain, tenderness, bruising. You may have a medical condition and if your doctor doesn't know what it is, don't blame them. They just don't know. Find someone else. Go on the Internet, Find resources, but make sure that you're seeking medical care. Because as we heard from Susie, there are actually some things that can help you feel better. Thanks so much for listening. I'm Dr. Nicole Safire and this is Wellness on Mass. Make sure you listen to Wellness on Mass on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts and I'll see you next time.
- [29:17]
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- [30:41]
Angie Hicks
Co founder of Angie. One thing I've learned is that you buy a house, but you make it a home. And for decades, Angie's helped millions of homeowners hire Hire skilled pros for the projects that matter. Get all your jobs done well@angie.com youm see it instantly.
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