Wellness Unmasked: Scott Adams on Cancer, RFK Jr., and the Crisis of Trust in Public Health

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show – Wellness Unmasked: Scott Adams on Cancer, RFK Jr., and the Crisis of Trust in Public Health

Host: Dr. Nicole Saphier
Guest: Scott Adams (creator of Dilbert, author, social commentator)
Date: August 26, 2025

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Overview: Main Theme and Purpose

This episode centers on a candid, wide-ranging conversation between Dr. Nicole Saphier and Scott Adams, focusing on Adams’ journey with stage IV prostate cancer as well as larger questions of truth, trust, and resilience in American public health. The discussion also touches on institutional credibility post-pandemic, recent political developments—particularly around RFK Jr.’s appointment as HHS Secretary—and how facing mortality affects creativity and legacy. Throughout, Adams brings his characteristic mix of humor and blunt honesty, offering insights that bridge the personal and the societal.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Trust in Experts and Public Health Post-Pandemic

• Erosion of Trust: Both guest and host agree that in the wake of COVID, the public's confidence in experts and institutions has eroded significantly.
  • Scott Adams (11:23): “The biggest thing that changed is the public’s trust in all things expert… now people don’t trust any data about anything.”
  • There's a consensus that this crisis of trust extends well beyond medicine into economics, politics, and science at large.
• COVID as a 'Persuasion Crisis': Adams reiterates his viewpoint that the real pandemic was not only medical, but also about messaging failures and persuasion.
  • Dr. Saphier (12:19): “You said before that Covid wasn’t really a health crisis, but a persuasion crisis. I liked that...”

2. COVID-19: Messaging, Policy, and Personal Experience

• Conflicts of Interest & Policy Decisions: Discussion of how apparent conflicts—such as former FDA commissioner Scott Gottlieb joining Pfizer’s board—damaged public trust.
  • Dr. Saphire (13:58): “It was like, feel like we’re blurring lines there. And that really left me with a yucky feeling.”
• Uncertainty and Data Skepticism:
  • Both share skepticism over available COVID data. Adams notes, “I still don’t know if my odds were better or worse... I wouldn’t have certainty that it saved lives or that it killed people. I don’t know how you could at this point, because I just don’t trust any data in that domain.” (22:06)
  • Saphier points to misreporting and the “messiness” of real-world pandemic data (23:02).

3. RFK Jr., the MAHA Movement, and Health Policy

• RFK Jr.’s Appointment as Secretary of HHS:
  • Adams praises the appointment, noting RFK Jr.'s willingness to take risks for what he believes in, and the bipartisan nature of his selection.
    • Scott Adams (16:39): “One of the best American things that’s happened... people on different sides just said, ‘How about we just work together?’... He risked everything.”
  • Both agree that RFK Jr. has largely “stuck to the data” since his appointment—tempering some concerns from his more activist days.
  • Saphier: “He’s keeping those promises that he made to get his votes.” (28:23)
• Policy Approach and Dissent:
  • Debate about the evolving recommendations around MRNA vaccines for different groups and the challenge of “following the data” when trust is low.
  • Scott Adams (21:02): “If he departs the data we’re all going to have a problem. If he only follows the data, we’re all going to learn to live with it, and I trust that he will actually do that.”

4. Personal Journey: Cancer Diagnosis, Treatment, and Mortality

• Going Public: Adams shares why he came out with his own diagnosis following news about President Biden’s similar cancer. (29:40)

  • He hoped to “float in under the story” but felt the need to be open due to visible symptoms.

• Diagnosis & Treatment Choices:

  • Adams was diagnosed with stage IV prostate cancer with bone metastasis (October of prior year).
  • He initially rejected chemotherapy/radiation, planning to pursue physician-assisted suicide in California, but then responded unexpectedly well to testosterone blockers.
  • Scott Adams (32:30):
    • “I didn’t want to die twice... If you’re a man and you turn off your testosterone... I’m not really the same person... But that person is okay, it’s not so bad.”

• Pain, Suicide, and the Will to Live:

  • Adams details how unending pain led him to pursue California-assisted suicide.
  • Once pain was controlled by hormone therapy, he found renewed enjoyment in day-to-day life.
  • “It’s hard to make that decision, but not if you wake up in pain. You’re in pain all day and it doesn’t look like tomorrow’s going to be any better.” (35:34)
  • He advocates for these laws, having publicly supported their passage in California.

• Experimental and “Alternative” Treatments:

  • Adams admits trialing anti-parasitics (ivermectin, fenbendazole), noting their lack of effect for him, and skepticism at the miracle stories online.
  • “If I had taken ivermectin at the same time I took the testosterone blockers, I would have imagined they cured me.” (42:48)
  • Both he and Dr. Saphier stress that while people may try such drugs if there’s little downside, they shouldn’t be relied on as cures.

5. Legacy, Purpose, and Creativity After Diagnosis

• Changes in Self & Routine:

  • Hormone treatment fundamentally altered Adams’ emotional life and self-perception:
    • “It’s like being in a video game where I died and then I spawned back as a different character... but if that person is okay, it’s not so bad.” (33:18)
  • Despite changes, he continues drawing Dilbert daily, now for subscribers:
    • “I still do the comic. I’ve never missed a day... Now that it’s subscription only, I get to do the naughty stuff...” (46:35)
  • Adams reports his diagnosis has not negatively affected his creativity.

• Life Purpose and Reader Impact:

  • Adams recounts how losing his family after divorce made him reframe his life purpose as “donating myself to the world”—using his talents to help as many people as possible.
  • He expresses genuine satisfaction that his work—especially his book “How to Fail at Almost Everything and Still Win Big”—has tangibly improved so many readers’ lives.
  • “People told me it worked... and I wouldn’t have known if I hadn’t had the diagnosis that caused people to come out and reach out. So I had a feeling of calm... Like I’d done what I needed to do and if I could give myself a report card... I’d be mostly ‘A’s.” (48:47)

6. Personal & Political Moments

• President Trump Reached Out: Trump personally called Scott Adams after hearing about his cancer.
  • Adams (53:11): “I thought, that’s not a sincere offer because he’s got lots of stuff to do... Several hours later, the phone rings again... And sure enough, it was President Trump... He wished me the best and offered help.”
• 2028 Election Predictions:
  • Adams predicts J.D. Vance will win the 2028 presidential election.
    • “I feel like he’s earned it... communication skills are unbelievable, and he doesn’t have quite the provocative personality... I’d be surprised if he lost.” (56:06)
  • Little confidence in Democratic options, little belief in Gavin Newsom’s viability.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Adams on trust post-COVID:
  • “When I talk to people about the pandemic, mostly they want to talk about how they don’t trust the experts and they feel they have to guess... to figure out how to stay alive.” (11:57)
• On the blurring line between pharma and policy:
  • Saphier: “...left me with a yucky feeling.” (13:58)
• Adams on mortality:
  • “I didn’t want to die twice... If you’re a man and you turn off your testosterone... I’m just not the person I always was... but it’s not so bad.” (32:30)
• On alternative treatments:
  • “Not one [anti-parasitic] worked... So I got off of that and tried a different route.” (43:23)
• On legacy and public impact:
  • “I was donating myself to the world... And people told me it worked... So I had a feeling of calm, meaning that I felt like I’d done what I needed to do and that if I could give myself a report card, it would look pretty good.” (48:47)
• Trump's call:
  • “And sure enough, it was President Trump and he wished me the best and offered help.” (53:11)
• 2028 prediction:
  • “I feel like J.D. Vance is going to win.” (56:06)

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Timeline of Important Segments

• Intro & context – [03:01–05:26]
• Trust, COVID, and persuasion crisis – [09:42–16:39]
• RFK Jr., MAHA movement & health politics – [16:39–28:23]
• Adams goes public with cancer diagnosis – [29:40–31:59]
• Treatment journey & personal philosophy on mortality – [31:59–36:29]
• Alternative cancer therapies discussion – [42:04–45:50]
• Legacy, creativity post-diagnosis – [46:14–48:20]
• Trump's call & political predictions – [52:32–56:44]
• Final reflections & election predictions – [56:44–59:10]

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Tone and Language

The episode is candid, conversational, and at times irreverently humorous—true to both Saphire’s clinical realism and Adams’ sardonic wit. Serious topics (mortality, crisis in trust, cancer pain) are discussed with stark honesty and balanced with moments of lightness.

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Summary Takeaways

• The erosion of trust in experts, exacerbated by pandemic mismanagement and blurred lines with industry, is a profound challenge for public health.
• Scott Adams’ journey with terminal cancer exemplifies radical openness and pragmatism—in treatment, in facing mortality, and in reflecting on purpose.
• Both host and guest maintain skepticism toward “miracle cures” and stress data even when institutional credibility is shaky.
• Political predictions include strong support for J.D. Vance in the next presidential race, with doubt cast on Democratic contenders.
• Ultimately, Adams finds peace knowing his life and work have tangibly helped others—a legacy more meaningful to him than any public accolade.

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This summary covers all major topics, moments, and the spirit of the episode—serving as a comprehensive resource for those who haven’t listened.

Transcript

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[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Welcome to wellness unmass. I'm Dr. Nicole Safire and today's episode I am so excited for. It's one I believe is going to resonate deeply with many of you. My guest is Scott Adams, creator of the legendary Dilbert comic strip, social commentator, and someone who has really just spent decades helping us laugh at the quirks of, I don't know, just modern day life. But today, Scott is also going to join me in a bit of a different role, that of a patient navigating one of the most challenging diagnoses a man can face, stage four prostate cancer. Like he has for decades before, he has been strikingly open about his journey, whether it's his pain, his choices, and even his experiments with unproven treatments. We're going to get into all of this. Now, his response to conventional therapies maybe may make you think about some of these things, but today Scott joins me in a bit of a different role, that of a patient navigating one of the most challenging diagnoses a man can face, stage four prostate cancer. Now, Scott, unsurprisingly because we've known him to be this way for decades, he's being strikingly open about his journey, about his choices, his pain, his experiments with unproven treatments and his response to some of these therapies. He's going to talk about all of this with us. And he's also spoken candidly about physician assisted dying, a topic that he has long advocated for. In this conversation, we are going to go well beyond the medicine. We're going to talk about resilience, decision making, and truly how facing mortality can reshape one's view of life, their creativity and legacy. And don't worry, not only going to be talking about cancer, I'm going to ask him about a whole bunch of things, including his predictions for the next presidential election. Because if you have been following him, he certainly has opinions on these and his opinions tend to be true. I also want to ask him a little bit about RFK Jr and the MAHA movement. So my goal here is not only to give listeners some medical clarity about his diagnosis, but I also want Scott to share in his own words, the wisdom and hopefully some humor that he's finding in the hardest, maybe the hardest season of his life.

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[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Scott, I am so happy to have you on wellness and mass with me today. You know, for our listeners, I want to give them a little bit of background. You and I first connected during the height of the pandemic. You know, at a time where there was so much noise, a lot of conflicting opinions and voices, often on a lot of issues. You and I Seemed to land in a space that was pretty much in unison. You know, we asked some uncomfortable questions. Sometimes I don't think people can really tell which side of the aisle we are on because sometimes we agreed with the mainstream media narrative and other times we were absolutely against it. But we both tried to bring some clarity when emotions were running high. And so that initial connection led to some more conversations. And it's one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on today and just so happy that you're here. In honor of you, I did prepare a cup of coffee for this conversation because I can't imagine having a conversation with you without coffee. So cheers to you.

[Scott Adams]

All I have is water. We can do the simultaneously.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Yeah, hydration is a good thing. I've been hydrating all afternoon. Let's fast forward to now, few years later. World obviously looks very different, yet kind of a lot of things are still the same. We're still dealing with truth in medicine or media, trust and institution, and the balance between science, freedom, public health, all of that. I just want to. I have so much I want to talk to you about, but I do just want to briefly get your perspective on how things have evolved since the early days of the pandemic and where you think we are in comparison.

[Scott Adams]

Wow. I'll tell you, the biggest thing that changed is the public's trust in all things expert, and it goes beyond even medical stuff. But now people don't trust any data about anything from employment levels to, I guess, isn't there a new statistic that 60 of all the scientific papers are garbage and they're being produced by AI now?

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

And it's a real thing, Let me tell you.

[Scott Adams]

Yeah, there's a reproducibility problem. So I think that's the biggest thing. When I talk to people about the pandemic, mostly they want to talk about how they don't trust the experts and that they feel they have to guess basically or use their common sense, as they would say, to figure out how to stay alive.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Yeah, you know, I mean, you said before that Covid wasn't really a health crisis, but it was a persuasion crisis. And I liked that. I don't remember where I heard you say that, but I think the messaging was all wrong. The messaging, they continued to put up these experts, Dr. Fauci et al, who really seemed confident in everything that they were saying. And then if you were to turn on and I was on the tv, I was like, well, this is what we have. This may change in 10 minutes, but this is the best I can do. So I'm going to tell you what I know, take it with a grain of salt and just know that information is ever evolving. But unfortunately, they weren't necessarily doing that.

[Scott Adams]

Yeah. You know, I used to think that people wouldn't lie in public if they knew there was a high chance of getting caught. And so when I was watching all the pandemic experts, I said to myself, well, they've obviously looked at the data, so they would know for sure whether this is good for you or bad for you or just what the pluses and minuses are. But that didn't seem to be the case. It seemed as if people were telling us things that later we would find out were not true, and they should have known that we would find out. So that part is mysterious. Usually I trust people to at least lie well enough to get away with it, but there was just something about the whole pandemic experience that made me think, I feel like people are just lying in general now. There's no sense of getting away with it anymore.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Well, it certainly felt like the pharmaceutical companies had mouthpieces, even people who I have respected professionally, Scott Gottlieb, one of them, former FDA commissioner under President Trump's first term. I actually wrote a paper, an opinion piece on him, saying how much I respected him scientifically when he stepped down to pursue other things. One of those other things, sitting on a Pfizer board during the COVID pandemic, which, good for him, even though obviously that's a huge conflict. But during the pandemic, you know, he was, I think it was cnbc, but he's one of their medical contributors. And while he did disclose it, you know, every time he's like, just so you know, I do sit on a Pfizer board, but let me tell you why everyone should get the vaccine. It was like, feel like we're blurring lines there. And that really left me with a yucky feeling.

[Scott Adams]

Yeah, I remember there was one point during the pandemic when somebody said, I can't say this in public, but I've learned something that I'll tell you. And I can't tell you in public either. And I thought to myself, oh, my God, this is what's actually happening behind the curtain. It had to do with the tests, the, you know, the quick tests, but, oh, my goodness, the level of corruption that was involved there was through the roof, but I don't want to get sued, so I'm not going to talk about that.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Well, yeah, I had some off the Record conversations with people as well, one of them being because I have an autoimmune disease and I was a little nervous before taking the vaccine because obviously I was a doctor. I am a doctor, still work full time in the hospital, and it was mandated. And my rheumatologist is like, I think it's going to be okay, but I don't know. I'm like, oh, that's good to know. Let me. So I reached out to some people and off the record, they're like, well, see if you can just do a half of a dose. I'm like, that's not a thing. Have you gone to these lines to get the vaccine? Like, there was no conversation around it. And so I think it was just so black and white. That is where you lost a lot of people's trust. So you had, you know, Fauci, Randy Weingarten, you know, the school. I don't even know. I have so much negative feelings about her. These were the people who were front and center, who were making policy, and they didn't have our best interest at heart. But honestly, I don't want to dwell on Covid because I'm so Covid out, but I had to start there because that's how you and I got introduced. I'm curious where you think we are now. 5 years post Covid started, and it is all, Maha, what do you think about moh?

[Scott Adams]

Well, I'll tell you, I think Trump gets a lot of credit for picking people who would not be his natural base. So just the fact that RFK Jr got selected to have such an important job is incredible. One of the best American things that's happened, people on essentially different sides just said, you know what? Saving children and keeping them from having chronic diseases is just more important than all that other stuff. How about we just work together? So I'm very impressed with the human part of it. The people who have said, I think I'll risk everything to make this work. Because RFK Jr. He risked everything, everything reputationally. He lost his friends, his family was against him. And he did it very clearly for the benefit that he, you know, he's been chasing for 20 years or more, which is to try to fix the chronic disease problem. And nobody else was doing it. I would argue it might have been our biggest problem in the world, might still be, and the fact that nobody was sort of in charge and going after it, somebody who could make a difference. But now we've got that. So we seem to have taken a bad situation and somehow got Something good out of it, which is a much more capable government approach to health care.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Well, you know, I agree with that, but I honestly, I can't get a read on your opinion of RFK Jr. And maybe that's a good thing because you're not so in a vacuum where you only say positive things or negative things about whichever person. But you know, you've made some comments about RFK Jr. Well before he became HHS secretary, like when he was gunning to be an and a presidential candidate, you were very. Had a lot of favorable comments about him. He was likable. You commented favorably on several things you guys also shared. I think you also had spasmodic dysphonia. Right. Didn't you have a surgeon for that, just like RFK Jr. Had? So maybe there's some implicit bias there because you appreciated what he's going through. But then since he's taken on his new role, I've started to hear some. You be a little bit critical of him.

[Scott Adams]

Well, here's what I think. I think RFK Jr. If we look at his past when he was a lawyer and he was suing people for different things, that's a different world. But when you're doing things in front of the entire country for the benefit of the entire country, if not the world, you're going to stick to the data because other people are going to look at it. So I haven't yet seen him do something that would be counter to the science or counter to the data that we trust. Have you?

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

No, I haven't. The one thing recently that he came out saying that he was going to cut back on the funding to MRNA vaccines. And I think you said something, I have it, something along the lines of based on his actions and his rhetoric, he's fanning the flames that lead to situations like we saw at the cdc. And I think you're referring to that recent shooting.

[Scott Adams]

The recent shooting? Well, no, I was just thinking that every decision he makes has some data that backs it up. Or he hasn't made the decision yet, which I appreciate because the COVID shots for adults are still recommended, right?

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Yeah. I mean, I think they're getting criticism because they haven't rolled him back enough for a lot of people.

[Scott Adams]

Right, right. But he doesn't have the data to do that, I would guess. So I would imagine that he's trying to get that data and as well as as much data as he can about other topics that are all sort of in that domain. And if he, if he departs the data we're all going to have a problem. You know, we're all going to have a problem if he only follows the data. We're all going to learn to live with it, and I trust that he will actually do that. Follow the data.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Yeah. You know what? I think I was nervous about some things that he was going to do. And like you, I agree that he came in and right away, you know, they did away with some of the CDC committees, the advisory committees, looking at some. Some certain elements and certain things. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, is he really just going to get rid of some of these vaccines? Despite the fact that I have looked at a lot of the data and he's done kind of what I would have probably done, My. They're not recommending them for healthy young kids. I'm still astonished how long people have continued to do that. And, you know, I think he has Marty Makary as FDA commissioner. Marty's a friend of mine, colleague of mine, very smart guy, and he and I were constant communication during the pandemic, wrote a lot of papers together, and so they really do look at that data. So I'm happy with it. I know he's getting some flack by the. The people who are very against MRNA vaccines because they don't feel like it's going far enough.

[Scott Adams]

I'll tell you what's amazing is that I still don't know if my odds were better or worse. At my age and with my comorbidities when I got the shot now, I'm not sure I would believe any public data at this point. So it's not like I'm going to accept either the critics or the official word. But we've just divided into two worlds. If I talk to the people who are much of my audience, they'll say, well, the science has proven that they were only bad for you and gave you no benefits whatsoever. And by the way, it was just a cold. And I'll think, I don't live in that world. I'm not in that world at all. I don't know. I don't know what's true. I definitely don't know what's true, but I wouldn't have certainty that it saved lives or that it killed people. I don't know how you could at this point, because I don't. I just don't trust any data in that domain.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Yeah, honestly, like you, I feel the same way. Looking at the data, data was really difficult because hospitals were misreporting a lot of things. They were looking at cases, and, you know, the denominator was essentially just people who were hospitalized and, you know, people were being given a Covid diagnosis when maybe they were there for something else. Like, it was a lot. And so it's really hard to look at those numbers. But I can say from an anecdotal standpoint, my best friend working in the ICU in small town West Texas called me crying one night after working like, 36 hours straight and just saying, they're all drowning, they're all suffocating, and I can't do anything to help them. This is obviously, like, within the first six months of COVID And it was just devastating for her that she's just never seen so many people die and she can't help them. My husband, being a neurosurgeon, saw a lot of people die from COVID but also from their elective surgeries being canceled because apparently treating brain aneurysms is considered elective by hospital administrators. But I digress.

[Scott Adams]

But what about the most basic question? Maybe you can answer this one for me. I don't even know if getting the COVID shot reduced my odds of bad hospitalization.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Yeah, we'll just say.

[Scott Adams]

Do we know that for sure?

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

No. No. Well, we can say that people who had the COVID the original Covid shot, and through Delta, if you were 60 and older, it may have decreased your risk of hospitalization and death. But the majority of people who were hospitalized with severe Covid even after the vaccines came out were people who had been vaccinated, were over 60 with comorbidities. So it's actually very hard to say. I'd be hard pressed to say if we had a vaccine and you're a higher risk population, why not try it? If you weren't in that higher risk group with side effects like the younger kids and some of those signals? I don't know. I mean, you've said you got vaccinated and that you regret it later. You said that those who.

[Scott Adams]

Well, I don't know if. I don't know if I made the wrong decision, because I still don't know what the date is. But what I do know is that once the danger passed, that it would have been better not to have it in you.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

I don't disagree with that, and I don't think that we will ever really have that answer. We know that deaths and hospitalizations did decrease after the vaccine rolled out, and it's probably because we had primed our immune system a little bit, but it waned and what are we going to do? Booster ourselves into perpetuity? I don't think so.

[Scott Adams]

I. I can't even tell if it's true that there's excess mortality that we can't identify. Is that even true? Just sort of general excess mortality and we don't know why.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Yeah. So, I mean, there was excess mortality, but there were a lot of confounding factors. Right. We had increased alcohol use, sedentary lifestyles.

[Scott Adams]

But even now. But even now there's excess mortality. Right.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Worse or not, we are still having excess mortality, but I think there is quite the spike during COVID But I think a lot of that was due to confounding factors. But I do think that we're just getting sicker. Which brings us back to Maha and how we can make America healthy again. You kind of already answered this question, but leading us out of COVID and out of the negative place that we were in, not just from a health standpoint, but trying to bring the country back together. Do you think RFK Jr was the right choice for HHS secretary?

[Scott Adams]

Definitely, because you needed not only the commitment and the dedication, but you had to be absolutely fearless. Because he's in a job that it's hard to imagine that he'll get credit completely, but he will be just savage and his family is probably still mad at him. So I think the bravery had to be on top of the experience. He had a lot of experience in that domain from the lawyer side and the will to commit your life to fixing this thing. So he's as close as I can imagine to the perfect choice.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

I mean, you sound quite sure of that. I like that. I mean, a lot of people equivocate, but you sound like you're all for him. Would you have voted for him, you, if. If he made it onto the presidential ballot?

[Scott Adams]

No, I still preferred Trump, and I would say at this point, that would have been the right choice. I mean, at the time, we didn't know, but I did like a lot about RFK Jr. I don't know that his policy preferences across the board would have lined up with mine. I stay away from abortion, so we, you know, so that wouldn't have bothered me so much either way. My view on abortion is that men shouldn't have an opinion. I mean, we could have an opinion, but we should not be the dominant voice in that conversation. So I just sort of stay out of it and say, you tell me. You guys tell me what you want and I'll back you.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Well, soon after President Trump took the White House and Secretary Kennedy made it through his nomination process, which I'm not sure if you watched it, but those are some dramatic hearings. I mean, I, I didn't know which way it was going to go. I certainly think there was a lot of conversation about what he was going to do to that childhood vaccine schedule. And so far it seems like he's. He's keeping those promises that he made to get his votes. And, you know, I think that's a good thing. But, you know, what I wanted to bring you on today about really, is soon after that former President Biden shared with the world. Maybe he needed to because it was going to be leaked or he just decided to go public with it. But the fact that he had metastatic prostate cancer to the bone, and a lot of people were shocked by this. And then a lot of people pointed to the fact, well, we kind of knew he wasn't doing so well. A lot of theories as to whether he knew for a while and that's maybe why he didn't run for president or whatnot, and so forth. But you decided to actually come out in that moment and share with all of your listeners, all of us, that you yourself have been dealing with the same diagnosis. You want to talk about it a little bit?

[Scott Adams]

Yeah. So I mistakenly believed that because Biden had come out with that, it would give me some shade and I could just sort of float in under the story because I didn't want to make.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

It more about your diagnosis.

[Scott Adams]

No, I didn't want to make it my brand or the thing that people thought about when they thought about me, because it's just a downer. But I thought it was necessary to go public with it because people would start noticing I was already having quite a few symptoms by then.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

When were you initially diagnosed?

[Scott Adams]

I was diagnosed last October. I think that's when we started to see the. The PSA spike. And the confirmation took a while after that, but it was kind of obvious.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

When you were originally diagnosed, it was already had metastasized to your bones by.

[Scott Adams]

The time I got the biopsy and then I got the scan, whichever scan they do after that, they said, bad news. It's already in your bones and in your, what is it, lymph nodes or wherever the hell it goes. So, yeah, it was all over. So I had decided not to take the classic treatments they offer, chemo and radiation, but they're not really going to make a difference to your life expectancy with this particular kind of cancer. But later, when I was planning to exit this world in a California legal way, which was this summer. I had planned that at the end of June of this year, I would take the magic suicide juice that California allows you to take. I had already ordered it. It was in the pharmacy waiting for me to pick it up. And I had a date planned at the end of June. But before then, I got a chance to maybe do an experimental. Not experimental, but a newly approved drug. And you're not allowed to do it unless you've first taken the testosterone blockers. So I got in some testosterone blockers and learned that all my pain went away. All my symptoms just went away.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

You just unleashed so much there. I want to go back. You took the testosterone blockers meaning. I guess that means you are hormone sensitive, right? Your cancer was similar to Joe Biden. Stage four is not curable. We know that. But for some, you can live with it. It's not necessarily you're going to die tomorrow. Why did it take you so long to start the testosterone blockers that ultimately provided you some relief?

[Scott Adams]

I'm going to give you an honest answer, which I don't know that I've said to anybody before. I didn't want to die twice. And if you're a man and you turn off your testosterone and the presumption is it's not coming back, I mean, I could get it back if I stopped the pills, but it wouldn't help. I'm not really the same person, and it's very obvious to me, and it's even been obvious to other people. I essentially turned off the male part of my hormonal existence. To me that's dying because I'm just not the person I always was. And I can feel the difference now. It's not as bad as I thought it would be. Not nearly as bad. So if you're listening to this, the thing you don't realize until you do it is that once you've removed your libido and you've removed your testosterone, you're just a different person. But if that person is okay, it's not so bad. I mean, I wake up in the morning and I play with my new cats that I got, which is probably because I have no testosterone anymore. And I haven't been irrationally angry at anybody for weeks. And I'm thinking, huh, I'm usually irrationally angry at somebody. There's usually something that's making me yell or get canceled or some damn thing. But now I'm just kind of mellow. And I don't know if that's because of the lack of testosterone. But I am a different person. I've described it as being like being in a video game where I died and then I spawned back as a different character that's in the same movie, the same game, but I'm just now a different character playing a slightly different role.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

I've actually never heard it described that way and I appreciate that because as my day job is diagnosing a lot of cancer, specifically breast cancer, I see men with prostate cancer coming in for their mammograms because a lot of them have to go on anti hormone therapy and it does cause them to have their breast tissue hypertrophy and grow. So we also screen them for breast cancer because prostate cancer and breast cancer on the same gene. And I know people feel similar to the way you do. For some, you know, it means walking their daughter down the aisle, seeing grandchildren, you know, hanging with their friends, their cats. Were you a cat person before the testosterone?

[Scott Adams]

Oh, yeah. But I feel like I'm more of a cat person now. I feel like it took it up about 40%.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

So. But you, you said something very honest that you were not just considering. I mean, you were well on your way to physician assisted suicide because the pain was so much. You live in one of the few states where that's legal. What was that thought process for you like?

[Scott Adams]

Well, first of all, I was one of the advocates for getting that law passed. So I did some public work to try to make sure that that didn't get passed because I always imagined I might need the option that was part of it. I might need it for myself. And the pain makes it easy. You say to yourself, it's going to be hard to make that decision, but not if you wake up in pain. You're in pain all day and you go to sleep in pain, and it doesn't look like tomorrow's going to be any better, probably worse, because that's the nature of it. But once the pain went away and it only took a week being on the testosterone blockers, all the pain in my body went away. I've got some other issues. I just got scanned and there's some other troubling things happening inside my body, but at the moment, no pain. So I just have an ordinary day.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

More coming up on Wellness unmasked with Dr. Nicole Safire.

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[Dr. Nicole Safire]

So, other things popping up on scans, like hopefully, I'm sure if you don't want to share them right now, but when we say scan, I don't know the details.

[Scott Adams]

Yeah, I just know there's some irregularities there that Are probably cancer related, But I don't know. I'll find out today or tomorrow.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

I'm going to hope it's an incidentaloma, as we call it. And maybe nothing, but there's a name for that.

[Scott Adams]

Incidental loma.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Yes. Incidental loma. The random things we find when we're imaging people for other things. It's a real thing, let me tell you.

[Scott Adams]

Yeah, that's exactly why I didn't want to get scanned. I'm like, they're going to find something. They're definitely going to find something. We'll see how that goes.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

You decided to try. You said you didn't want to do the radiation and surgery and chemo and whatnot, but you did try some of the antiparasitics that you know that you see people talking about like ivermectin and fibendazole and trust me, I have patients coming in saying that they're trying it. What was your thought process on using those?

[Scott Adams]

Well, let me do a magic trick and I will read your mind. And I can tell that none of the people who are your patients who tried it had a good result. How did I do?

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Yeah. Have not.

[Scott Adams]

Not one. Right.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

I mean, I've seen a lot of people on social media say their cancer is cured. But. But I myself have never seen it in the everyday that I see patients with cancer.

[Scott Adams]

It's what I call the one patient problem that you've probably seen five different reports about the guy who was cured using those drugs. And then you chase it back and it's that one guy and you can't really find out everything you need to know about that one guy. But I suspect he might have been on testosterone epiblockers and maybe he just had the same worse I did. I mean, if, if I had taken ivermectin at the same time I took the testosterone blockers, I would have imagined they worked. Cured me. Yeah.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Yeah.

[Scott Adams]

So it's the first thing I tried because it wouldn't hurt me. And there were some positive anecdotal reports and I thought, well, you know, I'll try it first. And my PSA just went through the roof while I was on it. So I got off of that and tried a different route.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Well, I mean, the reality is a lot of the studies looking at those anti parasitics were done in places where parasite load is very high. And there are reports that cancer patients that are on them, they're doing better. It's like, well, yeah, if you have a high parasitic load and you have These parasites who are just feeding off the nutrition of your body, your body doesn't have the same tools to fight the cancer. So in addition to standard therapy, if you want to try some antiparasitics, I'm all for it. I probably would, too, to be honest. If I have cancer and I'm looking at my life and I'm going to do everything I can, the problem I have is when people say that this is the cure all, I'm going to ignore everything else. Despite all of the data showing it may work, despite potential side effects, I'm okay with trying it for sure. And I think probably we all could probably benefit from doing a dose of an antiparasitic if you're a meat eater like I am.

[Scott Adams]

If that had worked and I had actually cured my incurable cancer with it, the next thing I would do is I would be all over television. I would have my medical records printed out, and I would have my doctor sitting next to me and saying, all right, ask my doctor. This is real. Here it is. Here's what I did. Here's how I got fixed. Because how in the world do you not fix everybody else if it works and you have the experience? I mean, it's not like you have to be a doctor. If you had an incurable cancer and you cured it, I mean, you could test to make sure that it was cured. I would tell everybody, and I would make that my life's work from that point on. But I also looked around and I said, am I the only person who would do that, that all the other people are trying it? Because, you know, there are just, I don't know, tens of thousands of people who tried it. By now, not a single person got the cure and then said, I got to tell everybody about this. So here's my medical record. Here's my doctor. Ask me any question you want. So the lack of that was kind of obvious.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

I mean, I know everybody's wanting the cure. Everyone's wanting to get away from some of the traditional cancer agents. I get it. We're working on it. So there are fewer side effects. But I don't think this is going. This is not the cancer cure all. But again, maybe an antiparasitic should be added to the regimen. It would help a lot of us who have some level of parasite load.

[Scott Adams]

I know. I got rid of my parasites. My parasites. They didn't have a chance.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

They didn't have a chance. So a lot of people know you. Well, I mean, I know you mostly from the last decade. Of your life. But initially, I mean, you became a household name from the Dilbert comics. Do you still draw and write?

[Scott Adams]

Yeah, I got canceled from all proper newspapers. But it was right at this time I wanted to retire anyway. And for me, retirement doesn't mean not working. I can't really even imagine that world. For me, retirement meant doing what I wanted, when I wanted to and there might be some money involved. So I still do the comic. I've never missed a day. So even when I got canceled, continued every day. But it's behind a subscription wall. So now you'd have to go to locals or you would have to be on X and subscribe to it and you could still see it. So now that it's subscription only, I get to do the naughty stuff that I couldn't do in the newspapers. Yeah, it was really restrictive. You had to be just family rated G rated. And now I can go, you know, PG 13. It makes a whole difference. So it's a different.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Has your diagnosis altered your creative process at.

[Scott Adams]

Probably not. Yeah, not really. I run for the people who subscribe. I show them the comic I drew exactly 10 years before the date I published the new one. So you can see what I used to look like and what I look like today. 10 year difference. And I always check them to see did I used to be funny, but now I'm not because you know I would. Nobody's going to tell you. Your friends are not going to say, oh, you know, I meant to tell you, I noticed you used to be good at this, but now you're not, now you're old, so they're not going to do that. So you have to sort of monitor yourself. As far as I can tell, about the same as I was. But sometimes it's funnier because I could do more topics now than I used to be able to.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

You've obviously had some very serious internal reflection facing mortality recently, even having the medications at the pharmacy waiting for you. When you're thinking about that, what would you kind of want just reflecting back on your decades upon decades of accomplishments. What do you want your readers, your listeners, just everyone to remember most about you and your work?

[Scott Adams]

Well, when I was in college I thought I was going to be a lawyer and I was sort of pre law in my mind anyway. And at one point I realized that lawyers are sort of a win lose situation. If you win as a lawyer, probably the other team lost. And I thought I don't really want to be in a situation where anybody loses because of something I did So I thought, wouldn't it be better to do something like entertainment where people can ignore you or they can have fun with it, but everybody wins. There's no loser in that transaction. So doing a cartoon fit my needs very well. But at one point I got divorced, my first two. And if you have a step kids, which I did, you lose everything at the same time because the step kids, it's not like they're shared custody or anything like that. So your life just blows up. And I realized I had no purpose. Like I'd wake up and I'd think, well, I can make money and I can do this fun thing, but why? Like, what's my purpose? And so I actually said out loud by myself that I was donating myself to the world and that I would just, instead of working for the benefit of a family unit, I would try to help as many people as I could with whatever gifts I had. So that's when I wrote my book, how to Fail Almost Everything and Still Win Big, which has become quite influential in the self help domain. And the books that followed had the same quality, which is it's going to make your life better if you pay attention. And when people found out my diagnosis, thousands of people reached out and they said some version of because of you, I quit drinking or because of you, I lost 80 pounds because of you, I got a promotion, I got married, I've got two great kids now, and apparently I've cured a bunch of medical problems that I didn't even know about. You know, people had more than I have, people had mental problems, etc. And they were saying, you changed my life. And I thought to myself, that's what I was trying to do. I dedicated my life to doing that. And people told me it worked. And I wouldn't have known if I hadn't had the diagnosis that caused people to come out and reach out. So I had a feeling of calm, meaning that I felt like I'd done what I needed to do and that if I could give myself a report card, it would look pretty good. It would be mostly A's. And I thought, you know, I'm comfortable leaving under this situation. I got mostly A's, self graded, but I seem to have helped enough people that was worth me being here. And it was tremendously satisfying. It's hard to explain.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

I wish for anyone who's dealing with anything that they get to that place in their life where they actually can feel, not that they're ready to die, but satisfied with where they are in their life. And I think in today's environment, so many people are always going, going, going. Grass is always greener, never satisfied. That's a pretty amazing feeling. One of the people who did reach out to you, I mean, yes, I reached out to you, but also President Trump reached out to you. What was that like?

[Scott Adams]

Yeah, one day I was sitting in my kitchen just doing my drawing and the phone rings and I didn't recognize the phone number. It was some Florida Palm Springs phone number. And I thought, ah, let that go to the voicemail. So I let it go to voicemail. And then later I'm like, ah, I better check that. And I check it and the voicemail comes on and says, hi, this is your favorite president. And I'm looking at it, I'm thinking, no way, there's no way. And then, you know, he goes on, you know, he heard about my diagnosis and just wanted to talk. And then he says, call me back.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

He gave a call back. Are you going to share that with us?

[Scott Adams]

Well, he said, call me back on this number. So I had the number because he had called me. So of course I did not. Because you don't. I mean, well, I thought that's not a sincere offer because he's got lots of stuff to do and even if it's very nice and even if he meant it, I'm not going to take his time when he's ending wars and trying to deal with tariffs and everything. So I didn't. Several hours later, the phone rings again. He called me back. He called me back and I'm looking at it and I'm like, no way, no way. And sure enough, it was President Trump and he wished me the best and offered help. He said, if you need any help, let me know. And I honestly, I believe him. There was nothing I particularly needed from him. But if there had been some company that was blocking me from some treatment or something, I actually had the feeling that I could call him up, say, could you drop a phone call to the CEO of this company? And I feel like he would have done was the strangest feeling.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

I'm sure he would have done it.

[Scott Adams]

Yeah, I think he would have. That's a great him to call.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Well, you have a way with predicting politics, although you're a self proclaimed, I think libertarian. Isn't that the last thing?

[Scott Adams]

Libertarian's a little bit too crazy for me. I'm more like an independent. I'm a registered Democrat. I just like Trump in particular.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Well, you predicted Trump would win his first round way before the pollsters caught Wind of that freight train, which was then soon to be President Trump coming. Would you have any predictions for the 2028 election? Any idea on the candidates?

[Scott Adams]

Well, I'm Pretty sure it's J.D. vance.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

You don't think Trump's gonna try and stay in office? Hillary thinks he's going to.

[Scott Adams]

I hope he's just having fun with it, but I would not rule out the possibility. I would not rule out the possibility that he's thinking, you know, if something happened, you know, something that changed everything, when he was joking about Zelensky canceling elections, he was joking that, hey, maybe I could do that, too. The fact is there might be some situation completely unforeseen, where even the country itself would say, you know what? We can't have an election now. We got this big problem we're dealing with. So it's not impossible. But I don't think he's taking it too seriously at this point, and I don't think his base would be for it. Unless we were in a war, for example, and then they might. They might. But I don't think. I don't think you'll start a war just to stay in office. I don't think.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

So we go around. It seems like you think J.D. vance will be the candidate. Is that who you would like to see?

[Scott Adams]

Yeah, you know, I feel like he's earned it. You know, he's. He's been a really solid vice president. His communication skills are unbelievable, and he doesn't have quite the provocative personality. So he's got most of what's good about Trump. Nobody matches him. You can't really compare Trump to anybody, actually. But he's got enough of the good stuff without enough of the provocative stuff that he should be able to just slide right in there. So I'd be surprised if he lost.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Who do you think about on the Democrat side?

[Scott Adams]

I feel so sorry for them. They really have nothing. Well, a little bit. A little bit. They really don't have anything. You know, they don't have anything that would stand up to Trump, but they also don't have anything that would stand up to J.D. vance. You know, even if you say, well, he's only 75% the power of Trump or whatever you want to put on it, I don't think they have anything.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

What about Gavin Newsom's push on social media right now?

[Scott Adams]

I feel like Gavin Newsom, they haven't unleashed the full. What do you call it, the adversarial research. I feel like he's had an interesting life and we're going to hear about that. So I don't.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

There was like that one picture of him with like a tiger rug or something in front of him. I think I saw something random of. All I know is from the very basics, looking at Gavin Newsom is there have been. There's a mass exodus of people leaving California since he's been governor as it's gone into this massive debt, like, and that's who we want to run the whole country. Like, we'll have nowhere to mass exodus to.

[Scott Adams]

It's hard to imagine that he could use his record as his stepping stone to the presidency. But the only thing he's got is he has the look and he's got the talk. He looks like exactly who you'd expect to be your next president. He's got the slick back hair, he's tall, he's got the whole package. But he doesn't have a track record. I think anybody's going to want to take to the national level. I hope.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Well, you heard it here first that Scott Adams predicts J.D. vance is going to take the 2028 election. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Scott.

[Scott Adams]

I'll make that an official prediction.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

I like it. Okay. I like it. Do you think Rubio is going to be with him? Is he going to have a running mate?

[Scott Adams]

I feel like Rubio is a really strong player, but it feels like JD Would beat him in a primary. So they might, they might do a primary. But Yeah, I think J.D. is going to win.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Thank you so much for being so honest with all of us and talking about things. I loved your message about your diagnosis. I think, I mean, I'm not surprised so many people have benefited just from listening to you. You're just so honest with people. And I think that's the way forward for us as a society is to just continue to be honest with people about what we know, what we don't know, and what we're doing and learning ourselves.

[Scott Adams]

We're trying.

[Dr. Nicole Safire]

You're listening to Wellness en Masse. We'll be right back with more.

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[Dr. Nicole Safire]

Why don't you just say you look.

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Shout out to Sonos for supporting today's show at home. Whether I'm watching Monday Night Football or I'm flipping between all the games on Sunday, sound quality matters. And this is where Sonos comes in. Their speakers bring your sports experience and entertainment to life. So whether it's in your own home there or you are out streaming music wherever you might be in your headphones, Sonos is the company for you. Sonos makes it easy to bring all your entertainment into every room in your home with their home theater speaker system. It's amazing. You want to feel like you're in the game. Every crowd moment, every hit. So no speakers. That's the way to do it. Home theater, cinematic sound. You want to bring those films to the next level. Guess what? That's how you do it. You have the ACE headphones too. Amazing sound quality with crystal clear highs and powerful bass. You don't just hear the content in those headphones, you feel it. Trust me, I've got a pair. I know what I'm talking about. And you get up to 30 hours of battery, 3 hours of playback with a quick 3 minute charge. It doesn't get better than that. So if you're serious about great sound for football, podcasts or music, you've got to check out Sonos. Visit sonos.com to learn more and explore the full Sonos lineup.

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[Dr. Nicole Safire]

I can't again tell you how grateful I am that Scott was able to join Wellness Unmass. I have been a fan of his, I have listened to him, I have learned from him and and I was just genuinely heart filled when he came forward and shared his diagnosis with everyone, his struggles and the hope sounds that he has found along the way. Scott's story is a reminder that health it's truly, truly more than the scans, more than a diagnosis or your lab values. It's about how we choose to live love and how are we going to leave our mark. Thank you for listening to Wellness unmass on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow Wellness unmasked with Dr. Nicole Safire and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast and I'll see you next time.

[Scott Adams]

Looking to buy your first car or home? Understanding your FICO score is key to achieving your life goals. Knowing your FICO scores helps you apply for loans with confidence and avoid surprises. With MyFico you get to access access to your FICO score credit reports 247 monitoring and alerts on the go Take the mystery out of your score and get your FICO score for free today. Visit myfico.com free and discover the score.

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Lenders use most As a parent, you wear many hats. At dinner, you're the chef. When your kids play, you're the ref and let's face it, you're basically a full time chauffeur. Fortunately, when it's time to wear your teacher hat, Abeka makes things easy. Our proven flexible homeschool curriculum is designed to let your kids retain and build on the knowledge they acquire setting them up for success later in life. Abeka Learning for Life begins with the right homeschool education.

Learn [e-mail] Oral health goes beyond just aesthetics.

[Scott Adams]

It's deeply connected to your general health and well being.

[Commercial Announcer]

That's why preventing oral health problems before they start is so important.

[Scott Adams]

When you use the Colgate Total Active Prevention System, you're not just helping to prevent oral health problems like cavities and gingivitis, you're laying the groundwork for overall wellness. Colgate Total's three product routine includes a reformulated toothpaste, an innovative toothbrush and a.

[Commercial Announcer]

Refreshing antibacterial mouthwash that all support a healthy mouth.

[Scott Adams]

In fact, the three products were designed.

[Commercial Announcer]

To work together to be 15 times more effective at reducing bacteria buildup in six weeks starting from week one compared to a non antibacterial fluoride toothpaste and flat trimmed toothbrush.

[Scott Adams]

Take control of your oral health and.

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Get the Colgate Total Active Prevention System today so you can be dentist ready.

[Scott Adams]

Visit shop.colgate.com Total.

[Commercial Announcer]

This message is sponsored by Greenlight. With school out, summer is the perfect time to teach our kids real world money skills they'll use forever. Greenlight is a debit card and the number one family finance and safety app used by millions of families helping kids learn how to save, investors and spend wisely. Parents can send their kids money and track their spending and saving while kids build money, confidence and skills in fun ways. Start your risk free Greenlight trial [e-mail] iheart that's greenlight.com iheart.

[Scott Adams]

Looking to build before next spring? Order now with Morton Buildings and get site Prep savings by October 31st. Get ahead of winter weather and save big through the end of October on select projects during Morton Buildings Winter Build Sales event. If you need a garage, a stall barn, a storage building for an RV boat or other vehicles, a shop for your farm hobbies or car restoration projects or anything in between, Take advantage of this special savings now. Morton Buildings uses quality materials and expert craftsmen with an industry leading warranty to ensure your addition is built stronger, lasts longer and looks better. We'll be working all winter along, but the building spots are limited. With offers this great, why wait? Visit MortonBuildings.com and click Get Started Today. Certain restrictions may apply. Savings offer on new building purchases by October 31, 2025. Building delivery required by April 30, 2026. Contact your local Morton office for more details.