Wellness Unmasked: Unpacking the Omega-6 Epidemic with Chef Andrew Gruel

Summary

Podcast Summary: Wellness Unmasked: Unpacking the Omega-6 Epidemic with Chef Andrew Gruel

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
• Description: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton delve into the most significant news, political, and current events stories with intelligence and humor. From border crises to the complexities of cancel culture, they navigate headlines and hot topics through engaging conversations and opinions.
• Episode: Wellness Unmasked: Unpacking the Omega-6 Epidemic with Chef Andrew Gruel
• Release Date: May 20, 2025

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Introduction to Omega-6 and Health Implications

[02:58] Dr. Nicole Saffire:
Dr. Nicole Saffire opens the episode by addressing the pervasive issue of cancer, emphasizing its prevalence and the urgent need to explore factors contributing to cancer risks beyond genetic predispositions. She introduces the focus on Omega-6 fatty acids, particularly linoleic acid, and their potential role in cancer development.

The Link Between Excess Body Fat and Cancer

[05:15] Dr. Saffire:
Dr. Saffire discusses the well-established correlation between excess body fat and an increased risk of cancer. She explains that adipose cells (fat cells) secrete pro-inflammatory cytokines like Interleukin 6 and tumor necrosis factor, leading to chronic inflammation. This inflammation damages DNA and inhibits apoptosis (programmed cell death), creating an environment conducive to cancer development.

Quote: “Excess body weight is linked to a higher risk of cancer. It is what it is.” — Dr. Nicole Saffire [05:25]

Cornell University's Study on Linoleic Acid

[09:40] Dr. Saffire:
Referencing a study from Cornell University, Dr. Saffire explains how linoleic acid, an essential Omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acid found in seed oils, was shown to accelerate tumor growth in mice with triple-negative breast cancer. The study also found elevated linoleic acid levels in human patients with this aggressive cancer subtype.

Quote: “Those that consumed the oil, the linoleic acid, their tumors grew larger and faster.” — Dr. Nicole Saffire [10:05]

Understanding Omega-6 vs. Omega-3 Fatty Acids

[12:50] Dr. Saffire:
She contrasts Omega-6 with Omega-3 fatty acids, highlighting the importance of maintaining a balanced ratio. While Omega-6s are prevalent in vegetable oils like soybean, corn, and sunflower oils, Omega-3s are essential for brain and heart health and are primarily obtained from fatty fish like salmon and sardines. The ideal Omega-6 to Omega-3 ratio should be around 5:1, but the Western diet often skews this ratio to approximately 15:1, exacerbating inflammation and related chronic diseases.

Impacts of High Omega-6 Intake

[14:30] Dr. Saffire:
High intake of Omega-6 fatty acids contributes to chronic inflammation, alters the gut microbiome, and impairs the immune system. This imbalance not only increases cancer risks but also heightens susceptibility to infections and metabolic disorders.

Chef Andrew Gruel’s Insights and Practical Tips

[21:44] Chef Andrew Gruel:
Chef Gruel shares his personal journey in recognizing the adverse effects of seed oils in his diet and restaurants. He transitioned to healthier fats like beef tallow, grass-fed butter, and avocado oil, noting significant improvements in his health and culinary quality.

Quote: “I realized what's in all of my foods... there’s seed oils in absolutely everything.” — Chef Andrew Gruel [24:50]

Making Healthier Choices in the Kitchen
[30:53] Dr. Saffire:
Dr. Saffire emphasizes the importance of home cooking and being vigilant about ingredient choices. She encourages listeners to make their vinaigrette and mayonnaise at home to avoid hidden Omega-6s found in store-bought versions.

[31:32] Chef Gruel:
Chef Gruel provides practical advice on creating homemade vinaigrettes and mayonnaise using healthier oils and natural emulsifiers like Dijon mustard. He highlights the simplicity and cost-effectiveness of these alternatives.

Quote: “It's a five-minute process that will cut out so much of those bad fats from your diet.” — Chef Andrew Gruel [31:45]

Substituting Unhealthy Ingredients
[33:59] Chef Gruel:
Addressing common kitchen staples like mayonnaise, Chef Gruel suggests alternatives such as compound butters with herbs or homemade mayonnaise using avocado oil and egg yolks. He shares strategies to make these substitutes appealing, especially to children.

The Food Industry's Role in Omega-6 Prevalence

[38:49] Chef Gruel:
Chef Gruel critiques the food industry's reliance on seed oils due to their cost-effectiveness and long shelf life. He explains how these oils became ubiquitous in processed and restaurant foods, often at the expense of health quality.

Government Incentives and Path Forward

[43:12] Chef Gruel:
Discussing solutions, Chef Gruel advocates for government incentives to shift the food industry's focus from cheap seed oils to healthier fats like beef tallow and grass-fed butters. He argues against outright bans, suggesting that financial incentives can encourage the adoption of healthier alternatives without disrupting businesses.

Quote: “Change the entire incentive structure.” — Chef Andrew Gruel [43:20]

Educating the Public and Personal Agency

[49:25] Dr. Saffire:
Dr. Saffire highlights the importance of public education and personal responsibility in making informed dietary choices. She praises ongoing efforts to make nutritional information more transparent and accessible, empowering individuals to take charge of their health.

Conclusion and Actionable Steps

[50:10] Dr. Saffire:
Dr. Saffire wraps up by emphasizing moderation and selectivity in diet. She encourages maintaining a healthy weight through balanced nutrition and regular exercise as key strategies to reduce cancer and chronic disease risks.

Quote: “Everything in moderation and selectivity.” — Dr. Nicole Saffire [55:49]

Final Takeaways:

1. Understand the Impact of Omega-6s: Excessive consumption of Omega-6 fatty acids, particularly linoleic acid from seed oils, can contribute to chronic inflammation and increased cancer risks.
2. Balance Omega-6 and Omega-3 Intake: Strive for a balanced ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3 fatty acids (ideally 5:1) to support overall health.
3. Adopt Healthier Cooking Practices: Replace processed and store-bought condiments with homemade versions using healthier oils and natural ingredients.
4. Be Informed and Vigilant: Read ingredient labels carefully and be aware of hidden sources of harmful fats in everyday foods.
5. Advocate for Industry Changes: Support policies and incentives that encourage the food industry to adopt healthier fat alternatives.

By integrating these insights and practical tips, listeners can make informed decisions to enhance their wellness and potentially reduce their risk of chronic diseases, including cancer.

Transcript

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[Dr. Nicole Saffire]

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Wellness en Masse. I'm Dr. Nicole Saffire, board certified physician, mom, and forever truth seeker. Well, as someone who delivers a cancer diagnosis just about every single day, as my day job, of course, I have to talk about cancer. Everyone knows someone who has either themselves or a family member or a friend or someone who's been affected by cancer because it really is just so prevalent. And while we could talk about cancer probably for a year straight, that's not necessarily what I want to get into today. One of the big things for me when it comes to wellness en masse, I really want to shine a light on the science that really matters. There was exciting research that came out of Cornell University looking at something very specific from a molecular level when it comes to cancer risk. But again, this episode is going to touch on cancer, but it's not entirely about cancer. One of the questions I have had is how is being overweight related to cancer? Undoubtedly, we know that the more excess body fat you have, it can increase your risk of cancer. In the United States, about 74% of adults are overweight or obese. About 21% of kids, adolescents, are also overweight or obese. That's a pretty terrible number. And in fact, I think that's underestimated because as I look around at our kids, everyone's kind of packing on a little extra weight just like the adults. So one of the biggest questions that I have is, is it the fat in the body and its effect on our body that's leading to cancer? Or is it something specific in our food that not only does it make us fat, but it itself is toxic and is resulting in cancer? Or is it a little bit of both? And what can we do about it? So let's kind of review what we do know. It is settled science. Excess body weight is linked to a higher risk of cancer. It is what it is. And the fact that the United States is the most overweight country in the entire world, it's not surprising that we also have higher cancers. Why is that? Well, fat cells themselves, the fancy term is adipose cell, but we can just call it fat cells. This excess fat tissue secretes pro inflammatory cytokines or hormones. Interleukin 6, tumor necrosis factor. These are, these are hormones that as they go throughout the body, in your bloodstream, in your tissues, it just causes chronic inflammation. What does chronic inflammation do? Well, it damages DNA and It can inhibit something called apoptosis. Apoptosis, the way I remembered it in medical school, pop. Pop is when a cell explodes on itself and it kind of dies. And you want that to happen. Your body is supposed to be able to see when cells are going rogue or cells are getting too old, or cells are going bad and they pop on their own. They kind of get rid of it. They have apoptosis. Well, if you have chronic inflammation, it's not necessarily recognizing those bad cells and, and that whole program, cell death isn't occurring. And that can facilitate cancer development. We also know those adipose cells are hormonally active in themselves. So yes, they secrete some chemicals that can lead to inflammation, but they actually convert androgens in your body into estrogens because they have a specific enzyme in them. So these fat cells create more estrogen in the body. Estrogen is linked to certain cancers, hormone sensitive cancers like breast cancer, endometrial cancer and ovarian cancers also can be linked to liver cancers and others. And then on top of it, the more cancer or the more fat cells you have in your body, the more insulin resistant your body is. So now you have higher levels of circulating insulin. It's not really working on your body. And this also can stimulate tumor cell growth. There are other things that excess fat does in your body. It alters your metabolism. Higher levels of insulin, like we were just saying, also inhibit that apoptosis or the programmed cell death. It can change your microbiome. The excess body weight can change the composite of your gut microbiome. We will be talking about gut microbiome a lot on this podcast because your gut is kind of the center of your health. So if you get rid of the good bacteria and you have all the bad bacteria, that's also going to lead to more inflammation, could also lead to more cancers, and it also impairs your immune system. Having more fat cells dampens the activity of your immune system. Let's think about COVID What was one of the first things we noticed with COVID People that weren't doing well early on, during the COVID pandemic, the elderly, severely immunocompromised and those that were overweight. Why is that? Well, I just laid it out for you. Having excess, excess body fat is terrible for you. Your body is in a state of chronic inflammation. And so when you get an infection or you're sick from whatever it may be, that chronic state of inflammation makes it so you can't fight things off. So excess body weight, bad for you bottom line, excess fat can lead to excess cancer. We know this. Like I've said, it's settled science. But what is less settled is does the foods we eat directly cause cancer in addition to indirectly causing cancer by leading to the excess fat? Well, that's one of the things that Cornell looked at. They took it to the molecular level to look at whether a particular substance, and in this case linoleic acid, was able to cause cancer to develop and grow. So again, we're talking about, are the foods we eat not just poisoning us because they make us fat, are they actually just poisoning us as well because there's something bad about them? So this study was funded by the nih. It was done by postdoc researchers at Cornell. My colleagues, I'm on staff at Cornell as well, they do some great research there. What they discovered they were feeding mice linoleic acid. Linoleic acid is an omeg fatty acid. We'll talk about that later. So they were feeding linoleic acid. This is a fatty acid that we get from our diet. Our body doesn't make it. So the only way we're ever exposed to this is by consuming it. What they did was they took mice. They fed mice who already had a triple negative breast cancer. Triple negative breast cancer is the most aggressive, difficult to treat breast cancer. It's a really difficult from our perspective. And when you see someone with a younger person with breast cancer, they tend to have triple negative breast cancers, deadliest form of the disease. So they took mice who have triple negative breast cancers, and they fed them a diet high in linoleic acid, and then they compared it to a placebo group. So mice who had breast cancer, but they weren't being fed this high linoleic acid diet. What did they find? Well, they found those that consumed the oil, the linoleic acid, their tumors grew larger and faster than those that didn't consume linoleic acid. They also looked at humans too. So there was a link to humans as well, that there was elevated levels of that linoleic acid in the blood samples from triple negative breast cancer patients. So what does that mean? Okay, well, let's talk about what exactly linoleic acid is. Because if I were just to read that, I would have no idea what it was. Linoleic acid is an essential omega 6 polyunsaturated fatty acid that again, that we have to get from our diet, meaning we don't make it ourselves. The only way we're exposed to it is through consumption. And in the United States, our western Diet, we have allotted added oils. I know you've heard RFK Jr talk about it. That's where we're going with this. Yes, we're talking about those vegetable oils, those seed oils. Polyunsaturated omega 6 fatty acids are found abundantly in those vegetable oils. Soybean oils, corn oils, sunflower oils, safflower oils. I don't even know what safflowers are, but apparently that's one of them. But again, those are all of those seed oils that you hear RFK Jr talking about. And all of a sudden you're hearing the fast food restaurant saying, oh, maybe we should take some of these unhealthy oils out of the diet. Listen, there are benefits to some of the fats in these oils, but we have to balance them. So you have omega 6 fatty acids, which come from like, linoleic acid and these seed oils, and then you also have your omega 3 fatty acids. When you hear someone, me, for instance, saying, hey, you gotta get in your omegas, I'm saying you have to get in your healthy omega 3s because those fats are so crucial for your brain health, for your heart health, and just overall wellness in your immune system. You get those healthy omega 3 fats from salmon, sardines, other things just like that. You're supposed to have a balance in your body of omega 6 to omega 3 balance. The healthy place to be is having a ratio of five to one, meaning five of the Omega 6s to one of the Omega 3s. The problem is, in our western diet, we have exceeded that ratio threefold. We, we're at like 15 to 1. And this is why our inflammatory processes are all skewed. This is why we have so many metabolic conditions, so many more cancers, so much more overweight. It's a problem. And so while a moderate intake of linoleic acid and those omega 6s supports our normal physiological functions, very high intakes, especially if you don't have an adequate amount of those omega 3s that we are talking about in study after study have shown that you have increased markers of inflammation and higher risk for chronic diseases, including certain cancers, which we're talking about today. So bottom line, excess fat leads to excess cancers, but also, we are what we eat. If we are intaking high levels of, in this particular case, linoleic acid. Linoleic acid itself is probably fueling tumor cells that are just waiting to grow in our body. So. So not only is it causing excess fat, but it itself may be causing these cancers to grow rampantly. That's what we saw in the mice studies, and we also saw women with these highly aggressive breast cancers. They had high levels of linoleic acid circulating in their bloodstream. So if they had had a lower consumption of these unhealthy seed oils, the question is, would their cancer have been so aggressive, or would they even develop that cancer at all? I mean, that's where the research is still ongoing. And we need to know that while we've gotten so good at detecting cancers, Finding them at earlier levels, We've gotten great when it comes to treating a lot of cancers. People are living longer with cancer. You can have stage four cancer these days, and you can still live 10, 20, 30 years because of our treatments. It's really quite remarkable what we've done. There's still a lot of work to do because there are some cancers, Pancreatic cancer, glioblastoma multiform in the brain, that we still have very limited treatment options for. The quest continues to make sure we can treat all of these cancers, but we also need to focus on how can we be preventing these cancers, because we want to make sure that we have enough funding for people who still get the cancers that we don't know how to treat. Right now, we are spending a lot of research on treating cancers that maybe that could have been prevented. In my book, make america healthy again, which came out in 2020, I have an entire chapter talking about how over 50% of all cancer may be prevented if we had just adopted some very basic lifestyle changes. Sometimes it's a little too late for that. The damage can be done, but looking ahead, we have to find ways that we can decrease chronic, chronic inflammation in our body and try to prevent the risk of disease, specifically cancer. I am so excited today that I am able to bring on chef gruel. He is a restaurateur, he is involved in his local politics, and he is all about healthy living. He was one of the first people I've ever heard talking about how these seed oils and omega 6s are unhealthy. He was talking about it before the whole make america healthy again movement. A kind before it was cool to talk about it. He was in the forefront in this, and he started removing seed oils from his restaurants, from his cooking again even before COVID So excited to bring him on. Today we're going to talk about these seed oils, and we're going to give you some tips on what you can do to just replace some of the basic things, because you may have some things that have high levels of linoleic Acid, whether in your pantry, in refrigerator, you don't even realize it that you have these potential toxins because we use them every day. And why do we use them every day? Well, they're cheap and they last long. They have long shelf lives and we're so used to using them, but we don't realize the potential danger that's lurking. Luckily, Chef Gruel is going to give us some tips on what we can do to easily swap them out for healthier alternatives. Coming up next, Chef Andrew Gruel is going to give us some tips and tell you everything you need to know.

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[Chef Andrew Gruel]

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[Nicole Saffire]

Ew or the right relationship.

[California Psychics]

But whatever your life dilemma, at California Psychics, we'll give you the guidance you need to feel certain about your life choices. And because we only connect you with the very best, we guarantee if your reading isn't life changing, it's free. California psychics call 1-800-PREDICT today and get 20 minutes for just $20.

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[Dr. Nicole Saffire]

All right, well there is no better person to help us kind of cut through all of the toxins and everything that we're talking about. We are what we eat, right? So the things that we are eating, is that what's making us unhealthy? I can tell you study after study about being overweight and not exercising and certain things that you consume. You know, maybe it's not going to make you unhealthy, but how do we actually take that information and live a healthier life? So I am so pleased to introduce chef Andrew Gruel. You all know him. If you've been watching Fox News, you see him, he's all over the place. I mean, he is so active these days. Restaurant owner, city councilman in Huntington, California, did some incredible work after the wildfires. Chef Andrew Gruel, I'm so happy to have you today on Wellness Unmasked.

[Chef Andrew Gruel]

It's an honor to be here. Thank you so much.

[Dr. Nicole Saffire]

So, Chef, we've been talking about lifestyle and how it is directly correlated with some chronic illness. And one thing specifically that I find myself stimulating, still even getting a little bit confused about is when we're talking about essential omega polyunsaturated fatty acids. First of all, what are they? Do we need them? Talk a little bit about them, definitely.

[Chef Andrew Gruel]

Well, you've got the good fats, right? And I always talk about the good fats. I think when we ask anybody on the street, what are the good fats? Most people know the fats you find in seafood and olive oils, et cetera. But then we start creeping in the Omega 6s and trying to understand whether those are the good fats or not. Things like seed oils and sunflower seed oil, vegetable oils, also certain types of nuts. And then furthermore, where it can get a little bit confusing is the meats that we're eating. Because, you know, carnivore and keto has been huge. Some of those meats, are they higher in the omega sixes? Right. Theoretically. The more unhealthy fats when they're, when you eat too much of them in relation to the Omega 3s that are in the feed of a lot of the commercially processed meats that we eat, chicken, beef, et cetera. Um, which then would lead me down the conversation about more grass fed meats. So, you know, I'm not a doctor, I'm just a chef. So I, you know, I can't get into the granular particulars and the chemistry as to how it all kind of reacts in your body. But what I bring to the conversation is, you know, I have a background in a world of seafood and understanding seafood. And it came to my attention early on. I started a nonprofit. Actually, first time I moved from California out to. Or, sorry, from New Jersey out to California was to start a nonprofit in the seafood world. And, and that was where I learned about this imbalance of your omega 6s and your omega 3s and how it's leading to a lot of the chronic inflammation and metabolic issues that we've seen in the western diet.

[Dr. Nicole Saffire]

So that's right. So there is supposed to be. You're supposed to have some Omega 6, Omega 6s, and you're supposed to have some Omega 3s, and there is kind of a sweet spot ratio, from what I know, it's like a 5 to 1 ratio, but if you look at our American diet, we're like a few 15 to 1 ratio. Like all of a sudden, we have so many omega 6s in our diet now, it's important to remember we don't make Omega 6s. Like our body doesn't produce them. The only way we're exposed to them is by consuming them. So you mentioned some of those hotspots of where we actually get those omega 6s. And by the way, omega 6 is that linoleic acid that we've been talking about. So where do we find that in our foods?

[Chef Andrew Gruel]

Everywhere. And I think that's the point that we should probably emphasize everywhere. And that's where I started to have this eureka moment. And I said, wait a minute. These illnesses have gone up over the years and I've personally experienced it myself with just a lot of stomach issues and body issues. And I'm an athlete. I've always been into fitness. So when I watch what's happening to my body and I'm working out and I'm doing all the right things, but it's not getting better. I kind of had this moment where I said, well, what's in all of my foods? Because naturally, when you go to any doctor and you say, hey, look, I've got this stomach issue or I don't feel right, a lot of times they move you into this food elimination stage where you're looking at everything you're eating and you're kind of removing some, removing an item or an ingredient. And when I go across the portfolio of products that I was consuming at the time, and most Americans do, I realize there's seed oils in absolutely everything, right? Processed food, all the seed oils. I mean, you even go to go to get a bag of nuts and there's seed oils, right? They're roasted in canola oil. Like, everything has this high in omega 6 fatty acid seed oil in it. And it's not just the seed oils, right? Like, it's also a lot of what I mentioned earlier, where the animals are feeding on the grains or the low quality products that are higher in these omega 6 fatty acids. So it's coming through in their feed. So when we were studying the seafood in the aquarium and I was going through this whole health element, trying to get people to eat more seafood, our goal of this entire program was to get people to eat more seafood and also more of the right types of seafood, which gets you more into kind of the sustainability element, which was a big piece of my culinary manifesto. And I realized so many of the leading causes of death can be alleviated by some degree by consuming more omega 3 fatty acids or at least breaking that ratio down, as you mentioned. And so while I was having these issues personally, while going through the kind of seafood element of this conversation, I realized, whoa, it's not just, we can't be eating salmon and sardines breakfast, lunch, and dinner. So there needs to be an amalgamation from a strategic perspective of not just increasing our healthy threes, but decreasing our sixes. And then it was at that point that I realized, wait a minute, I'm consuming all of these unhealthy omega 6s in products that I would think would be healthy. Right. Low fat vinaigrettes or just generally purveyed or pitched as healthy processed foods. Right. The almond crackers. Right. Things that you go to whole foods and you get and you're like, oh, I'm getting the better choice.

[Dr. Nicole Saffire]

But no, they're foods. It's supposed to be healthy. Right?

[Chef Andrew Gruel]

Right. But that's so. And we laugh, but that's really been the North Star, I think, in so many ways, especially for working parents and people who are trying to start a career, it's like, well, as long as I'm shopping at this better outlet, then it's going to be better for me. And that's always obviously not the case. So it's funny, when I started to cut out all the seed oils and the Omega 6 is way back in 2010, my stomach problems got better, My body started to feel better, I actually started sleeping better, my skin got better. And then for me, it was like, okay, even though it's anecdotal, I've got this evidence for something that's working in my body and then really dove deeper into that.

[Dr. Nicole Saffire]

So here's a question I have for you. So you are obviously very well educated and you put in the research, you probably did a food diary to figure out what it was you're eating. And you were really able to look at that for people listening who probably are not going to sit down and create a food diary. Although I'll tell you, I think that's one of the best things that we as individuals can do because we talk so much about living our healthiest lives and trying to be better versions of ourselves. But you are what you eat. And so if you don't know what you're consuming, then how could you even start the journey of trying to live healthier? But if for people who are just kind of looking at their diet, what do you think are like the five biggest culprits out there that most people are probably. That's where they're consuming the most amount of these, you know, unhealthy omega 6 fatty acids.

[Chef Andrew Gruel]

Great question. So I would say just generally processed food, because all processed food has got the Omega 6 is by virtue of the seed oils in there, right? Because they want to fulfill that nutritional profile that the processing requirements mandate and the nutritional requirements, if you're a food manufacturer. So it's like you got to have these omega sixes, also fattest flavor. So a lot of times these food manufacturers put the Omega 6s in there by way of these different seed oils to make the food more appetizing and to give it more of that kind of wholesome finish by way of the fat on your palate, right? So any processed food, and by that I'm talking like granola bars and these quasi healthy crackers, chips. Going out to eat fast food, anytime you go out to eat at any restaurant, and I hate to say this because in a way, I'm kind of hedging against my own industry, but anytime you go out to eat at any restaurant, they are caking everything in soybean oil. They call it liquid margarine, which to me is kind of ironic because margarine is actually just solidified seed oil. So it's effectively liquid margarine is just seed oil. But it's these baked butter products that restaurants are using because they're cheap and they're not doing it because they're trying to get you sick. So anytime you go out to eat at a restaurant, everything is caked in those, those omega sixes, even things that taste rich and buttery. A lot of times they're like a margarine butter combo. So, you know, you're having these mashed potatoes thinking it's whole butter and it's healthy and it's just potato and butter, which is rich and decadent. But a lot of times that seed oils in there, I say going out to eat, right? All these highly processed foods and then even things, even meats, right? You know, a lot of these fattier cuts that we, we love because they're so marbled, and that's what gives you that unctuous bite and that beautiful finish. When you see that rib eye with like the beautiful marbling on the inside, those are highly grain fed animals that could be high in omega 6s by way of all that grain that they're eating. You know, soybean refuge, what, what have you in a commercial setting. So that's where I started moving to more of the kind of healthier it can be grade, grain fed or grass finished even will actually bring down that six profile. So, you know, chips, processed foods, restaurant foods and then like things like vinaigrettes, right? Vinaigrettes, sauces, condiments. These are the things that we consume every single day that we don't think about. But that's where you're going to find a bevy of these, these unhealthy oils. You know, if you broke down like a hidden valley ra. I just saw a reel on Instagram or something. It was like they took the bottle and they actually built the ingredients without it being emulsified and they poured everything in there and it was three quarters of the way. It was just straight, low quality canola oil and then a bunch of xanthan gum and carrageen and some of these other chemicals in there that could also be questionable.

[Dr. Nicole Saffire]

Well, so if we start looking at these ingredients and actually really pay attention because you're absolutely right. If you look at a vinaigrette, you're like, well, this is perfect. It's an oil and it's a vinegar. How can this be bad for you? But as you're, you know, these are these mass product, you know, industrial production from low cost, long shelf life. If it's going to stay in your pantry and not go bad for a long time, it's probably not healthy for you. Yeah, but what can we actually do? Like what are, what are just easy to do replacements that are maybe healthier versions? Like, I mean, I would guess so instead of like the store bought vinaigrette, just get your own olive oil and vinegar.

[Chef Andrew Gruel]

Yeah, I mean it's really that simple. And this has kind of been the, the genesis of my more approachable content towards getting families in the kitchen and getting individuals in the kitchen and really just having one more meal a week or having one ingredient that you make at home that you utilize throughout the week, whether it's a vinaigrette, whether it's a sauce, whether it's a condiment, because those are the things that we put on all of our foods. So once again, even if you were keeping a food diary a lot of times, because I caught myself doing this, I'm writing, you know, chicken sandwich. Right. But I'm not Thinking like, oh, well, there's probably an ounce or an ounce and a half of mayonnaise on there, which is realistically 90% just soybean oil. Right. So when you're chugging a shot of soybean oil five times a day, that's adding up. Picking some of those ingredients that you can put back in your fridge that you make at home. So using a vinaigrette as an example. And once again, I should say on the vinaigrette, a lot of times most olive oil that's marketed as like an olive oil vinaigrette, it's 90% canola oil, 10% olive oil, because there's no mandate, like you can call it an olive oil vinaigrette as long as there's some olive oil in there. So you're hard pressed to find a pure olive oil vinaigrette. So that's something that you can do at home. Olive oil, avocado oil, which is much lower on that linoleic acid scale. And vinaigrette is the simplest thing in the world. It's two parts. I used to do three parts oil to one part vinegar. But in my later days, where my palate's gotten more specific, I'm doing about two, two and a half parts oil, an extra virgin olive oil or one of those healthier oils to any high quality vinegar. Just put it in a jar. A little dash of Dijon mustard, which will actually act as a natural emulsifier. Most of the commercially produced products have like xanthan gum and other artificial emulsifiers in there. But I'll use Dijon mustard, which is an emulsifier. Fresh herbs, any herbs in there that you want to add, shake it up, it'll come together and that Dijon will hold it and stick it right in the fridge. I'm not even kidding. It's a five minute process that will cut out so much of those, those bad fats from your diet.

[Dr. Nicole Saffire]

Well, everyone listening knows that I'm a huge fan of natural herbs. You know, we're both from or I live in Somerset county, you're from Somerset County, New Jersey. So I have huge herb gardens and I absolutely love it. But I need to put my mom hat on for one second. I'm going to remove the doctor one, put my mom one on. Because you just mentioned mayonnaise, which, I mean, I've never thought mayonnaise was healthy for you. I mean, let's be real. But I didn't realize how unhealthy it was for us. And I have One kid who, who refuses to eat sandwiches without mayonnaise on it. So what can I do to substitute that?

[Chef Andrew Gruel]

That's a great question. I have four kids who refuse to eat a sandwich without mayonnaise on it. So I'll tell you what, I did trick two of my kids into eating sandwiches without mayonnaise by making compound butters. So I would take just a good grass fed butter, soften it a little bit, then I mix in like some chopped garlic and some fresh herbs. One of them didn't like the herbs in there, so I just started doing like a little bit of lemon juice to make the flavors pop. And as long as I spread it on the sandwich at room temperature, they don't necessarily know the difference because it's fulfilling that role of kind of coating the palate and making all the flavors a little bit richer for the other kids that I couldn't dupe, if you will. I just started making mayonnaise at home. I mean, it's really easy to do. It's the exact same approach that you would use for the vinaigrette. Right. So mayonnaise is really nothing more that it's an emulsion between vinegar and oil. Right. And that's what I just described with the, with the vinaigrette. The only difference is that you actually use an egg yolk as the emulsifier because the egg yolk will pull it together and it'll also add richness. So making a mayonnaise at home is really easy. You can do it in a blender, you can do it in a bowl. I do one egg yolk and then I do like one lemon and roughly a cup of avocado oil. And I just whisk it until it's fully emulsified and pulled together with once again, I'll add a little bit of Dijon mustard in there, and you've got your own mayonnaise with the avocado oil. It's really simple. I've got it all over my channels because I was trying to impress upon everybody how easy it was to make. And it costs, you know, I mean, it ends up costing like $253. But, you know, one of those jars of avocado mayonnaise is, is, is like $9 or $10. And it's actually a much higher quality product too. My kids absolutely love it. I taught them how to make it, which is fun because it's a two person job. One can whisk, whisk the oil in and the other one. And you know how much Kids love kind of playing in the kitchen, whether.

[Dr. Nicole Saffire]

It'S fresh made and making a mess in the kitchen.

[Chef Andrew Gruel]

Making a mess. Making a huge mess. But you know what? You know what I've realized? There's going to be a mess inevitably. Like, you can have an empty kitchen and somehow they make a mess.

[Dr. Nicole Saffire]

Sure. But you know what? Then they get to clean it up. And that's another lesson learned. You make a mess, you get to clean up. Parenting tips galore here on Wellness Unmasked. You know, one more thing I wanted to talk to you about is because I've heard you talk about this before, and I honest to goodness, I had never heard about beef tallow prior to the last few months. I mean, I know, I know. I don't know why I don't know about this, but all of a sudden I'm hearing about beef tallow everywhere. Can you please just give me a rundown on what this is?

[Chef Andrew Gruel]

Well, it comes down to that six and three that we're talking about, right? Everything comes back to this, it seems like. So for us. I'll give you a little story and then. And then answer your question. So we actually switched in all of our restaurants way back in, like 2018, 2019, away from all the seed oils, the soybean oils, the canola oils, because of what I realized, and I knew I needed, like, more of the saturated high quality fats, animal fats, right? So butter, ghee, duck fat, we were using a lot schmaltz. We were using a lot of our rendered pork fat from different products. So like a natural lard. And then the beef tallow was incredibly cheap at the time. And I'm like, oh, well, it makes complete sense to cook in beef tallow. So we tried frying in all these different oils. And I liked beef tallow the most because it actually was the lightest in the finish, in the flavor, but it also was pretty rich. So that was what we started doing years ago. Which is why I love now that finally things have caught up. I felt like I was a crazy guy doing this in 2018, 2019. So what it does is, is that because you're not getting that bitter aftertaste that you otherwise would get from the omega 6 fatty acids, all those oils are so highly processed. And you can, I don't recommend you do this, but if you want to, you can do a taste test where you actually taste like butter and then rinse your mouth out and then do like a little bit of seed oil and your palate will be finished with this. Acrid, highly processed, bitter taste in your mouth that will linger for probably five minutes. Well, from a chef's perspective, we're trying to get rid of those types of negatives when it comes to the palate and the taste finish. So I switched over to the beef tallow. And no unnatural lingering off flavors. It was just the cleanest. Strictly from a culinary perspective, for me, that was the right fat to use. It was higher quality, much cleaner. So we made the switch. But then I started having customers come to me immediately, and they're like, why can I go to your restaurant and eat your fries, eat your fish and chips, whatever it is that's being fried, feel heavy, and I don't feel full afterwards. You know, they feel full, but they don't just kind of drag themselves through the rest of the day. And then I was like, it's the beef tallow. And so I think a lot of people have, because of this conversation about the seed oils, have moved over to these animal fats, and they've tasted and they've realized the change that they feel in their body and both the palate and then ultimately kind of the culinary mind. So it's moved America into this quasi obsession with the beef tallow, which I frankly believe is a good thing.

[Dr. Nicole Saffire]

Well, you know, it kind of reminds me of, like, when I. So this last year, we took our. Our kids to Italy for the first time. It was an amazing trip, obviously, the food and the sights. But you could eat pasta three meals a day there. Yes. You're walking more, but you don't feel that same heaviness. Because, I mean, it has to be the fact that obviously the pasta is made fresh, the dough's made fresh, the vegetables are fresh. I mean, they're literally, like, in a garden out back. So you're not having that heavily processed stuff that we see here in the United States. But, you know, one thing that you said earlier that really caught my attention, you said, you know, the restaurants and the food industries, they're using all of these unhealthy seed oils. But you said, they're not trying to make us sick. Right. I mean, and that's kind of the conversation right now. You start hearing a lot of people saying, oh, the industry, they're trying to keep us sick, because, you know, the healthcare industry just likes to treat disease. And unfortunately, I can. As a physician, I can appreciate what people are saying. We certainly do practice reactive medicine. We're all about treating the disease, and we're less focused on preventing the disease in the first place. But Just like you're saying, it's like the food industry specifically here in the United States adopted these seed oils, kind of industrialized them because they're cheap and they last long. Unfortunately, there's just consequences.

[Chef Andrew Gruel]

It's all bottom line, right? So you know, it's not triple bottom line. I say triple bottom line is people, planet, profit. It's single bottom line. So you're right, it's the shelf life which ultimately leads to a better bottom line. Less turnover on inventory. And then for the restaurants, it's like always trying to keep that cost of goods in line. And you know, we get marketed too. So starting when I started owning and operating restaurants all the way back in 2006, 2007, you know, we were just getting he these wonder oils that were only $15 for a jib, which is a jug in a box, 45 pounds. And it's like, wow, we can really, you know, we can use this on everything now. We can replace our olive oils and we can replace our butters. And then we had the kind of medical industrial complex telling us, no, this is great, these are wonderful alternatives because the saturated fats are going to lead to heart disease and high cholesterol, et cetera. We can speculate as to the conspiracy behind any of that. I'll leave that up to other people. But strictly from the restaurateur's perspective, I mean, we weren't thinking about the health at the time. It was always about really serving the best food or what we were educated upon as being the best food at the best price. Now, once again, you know, some of the, some of the, I don't want to call it evil, but perhaps some of the negative intent was coming through the supply chain by way of the massive food manufacturers that were marketing it to us. We don't have times as chefs who are working 14, 16 hours a day, seven days a week to be able to go into these deep nutritional deep dives on all the products. So I think that's where it just became kind of the muscle memory, if you will, or the culinary muscle memory to just constantly be using those seed oils. Now fast forward to today where a lot of restaurants are trying to switch over the supply chain is so broken that many of them, we've been doing it for years, so it was already in our, in kind of our business calculus. Many of them are now not able to operate at a, in a profitable or even a break even setting by using some of these highly saturated fats, which are, we're now learning, are higher quality Even from a culinary perspective. So that's kind of the quandary that we're in right now from a food service perspective. And that's why I say it's not like restaurateurs are out there trying to make you sick. They don't, they don't want to. And they want to be on the front end of what's right. But we just need to be able to clean up the supply chain to make those products available.

[Dr. Nicole Saffire]

Well, so what is, I mean, obviously you're a chef, but you're also a councilman. So you are someone who's tasked with making change. Like what is the path forward? How do we, other than, you know, the government stepping in and saying you're not allowed to serve this anymore. But as you're saying, that doesn't necessarily fix the problem because then you're going to have restaurants going out of business and people out of jobs. So how do we fix this? What is the path forward? Because I can tell you from a scientific research perspective, it is clear to us that there is some correlation between these seed oils and some of the other unhealthy, ultra processed foods that we're consuming and chronic illness. The science is there. It's a known fact. Okay, there's correlation between disease and our consumption. But what is actually that path forward?

[Chef Andrew Gruel]

Well, I don't think the government should step in more than they've already done. Right. Because the bigger the government's got, the sicker we've gotten. So I think we need to recognize that perhaps the government is part of the problem and that could be ineptitude or part of it could be intentional or there's just some financial incentive within that kind of decision making process. Well, I would say the government also should not be banning any products because I think that's a slippery slope and it sets a pretty dangerous precedent. What I think the government can and should do is they should look at it strictly from incentivizing. Change the incentive structure. Right? You want to fix a problem, Change the entire incentive structure. So why are we incentivized to only use seed oils? Well, because it's cheap and it's readily available. Well, there you go. Right? Those are the two things that we need to target in on. So if we can take all these other healthy fats, which funny enough now are byproducts, they're not, not available because they're expensive. It's because they've now been stitched into so many other industries, pet food, biofuels. Right. That they're being used in those industries as byproducts, cheap byproducts. So the government can actually incentivize financially a way in which we get all of those products back into the food chain. Not all of them. Right. We can still fulfill the demand for some of those other industries, get them into the food chain so that we increase the supply of those products, make them get it, so that they're easier to receive from a restaurant tourist perspective, which is. And you're probably thinking right now, well, how do you do that? Very easy, right? I mean, the government, literally, whether it's through the USDA or any subsidiary agencies, they can actually get those products right. Pork fat or lard, beef tallow, get to the ranchers, get to the farmers and the processors of those fats and get them directly to one of the three massive food purveyors in the United States, which is Cisco, US Foods and PFG perhaps, or some of the other guys, and make them available within the next month, which can be done to the restaurant community and the food service community, especially the large food service, the Aramarks of the world, you know, the airports, the hospitals, et cetera, which hospitals. We can have a whole nother conversation another time. So that's number one. And then number two, if they have to subsidize this, subsidize it. Because I've always said, right, like, especially now being in city council, it's so funny. I'm like a libertarian at heart. But now here I realize in my role as a city councilman, we get our revenue through taxes. So I'm just consistently conflicted. But you know, we can subsidize certain industries as long as we can prove that there's going to be an equal offset with a little bit of, you know, a little bit of a, Of a gain. Right? And I think just the per. For the purposes of looking at our health care costs, right. If we get healthier, right now we're spending 20% of our entire federal budget on healthcare, and that's only going up at a rapid pace. If we get healthier, those costs are going to come down and in the long run, we're going to save a ton of money. So if you've got a, if you've got a subsidized the fat industry within the restaurant or food service world and food manufacturing to get the right fats into the right products to make them more approachable for the manufacturers and the US Producers. Well, then you do that because that's how we got into this problem in the first place was by subsidizing all of these commodity products, corn, soybeans. Right. And creating cheap byproducts. That's exactly how we got here in the first place. So if anybody in government wants to tell me, well, I don't know how we're going to do that economically. You know exactly how you're going to do that.

[Dr. Nicole Saffire]

Well, I mean, I think it's really interesting that first of all, talking about incentivizing when it comes to people's health and health care, I mean, you're preaching to the choir there. One thing is that for me personally and my family and kind of some of the stuff that I like to publicly talk about is you have to do what you can to eat healthy at home as much as possible so that you can go out to restaurants and you know, maybe that is not where you have to overly regulate. You can go and you can have your everything in moderation meal as long as you, the rest of the days of the week you're at home not having the seed oils, not having the ultra processed foods. You know, I don't think that we need to eradicate things altogether, but we need to be more transparent in the things that we are consuming. People need to be educated on that and we have to make sure that it's affordable. And specifically people who, you know, are in the lower income areas that they have access to the healthier foods because unfortunately they rely more on these processed foods because they're cheaper because the longer health shelf lives and the fast food. So I mean, it's a big problem right now. It seems like RFK Jr. And the administration, obviously this is in the forefront of make America healthy again. They're tackling it, as you're saying, by they're kind of going after removing some of the things from the industry. I also worry about government overreach a little bit, but I'm glad to at least see that the conversation is being had. Yeah.

[Chef Andrew Gruel]

And I think that the things that they're changing are actually they're removing government overreach. A lot of times people are like, well, you know, kind of some of the hard right, anti government folks are saying, well look, look at what they're doing to change this and change this. That's government overreach. No, they're undoing government overreach. I mean, look at the gross loophole. I think that's amazing that that was already that they're closing that gross loophole because that was really the window through which they were slipping in so many of These bad products. And for those watching the gross loophole, which was generally recognized as safe, was kind of a way in which you could get basic products into foods without having to go through the government, the regulatory gauntlet of getting them approved. But originally it was intended for things that we know, right? Generally recognized as saf, flour, vinegar, salt, pepper. Right? Like those very basic pantry items. And then they started slipping in more and a little bit more. And then ultimately the food manufacturers realized, hey, if we write some of our own studies, we can slip some of these chemicals in there under the gross loophole. And that's how all of those products got into the food. The government kind of turning a blind eye. If we make the research more transparent and we kind of have an even playing field and we remove some of the special interest, we're actually decreasing the size of that government kind of construct and we're getting people healthier at the same time. Because I think what's lost in all of this, and that's a great point you bring up about just pay attention to what you're cooking at home. I think that people forget we have agency, right? Like this personal agency, this ability to decide for ourselves and make decisions for ourselves and our families. We don't need kind of an a priori government to be our secondary brain. We can do it ourselves. So long as the information is clean and transparent.

[Dr. Nicole Saffire]

Absolutely. And you just hit the nail on the head there. The fact that in Europe, when it came to food, they had to essentially prove that substances were safe before it was allowed to go into the food. Here in the United States, because of the loopholes, we essentially said anything can be added into it. If it turns out to be not safe, then we'll have that discussion. I mean, it is so backwards. And here we are. And as we have seen, once something gets through that loophole, it's really hard to undo that. And I finally am feeling optimistic that maybe we're going to be doing that. And as we continue to get more data, talking about the things that we consume and how they are directly correlative to disease, I think people are finally going to start taking charge of their health and hopefully be able to make some informed decisions about their health.

[Chef Andrew Gruel]

Yeah, I agree. The food marketing machine has been, you know, they've done well, I got to say that. But I think like, just packaging and marketing and all of the claims that we see on the outside, right, like all natural and low in saturated fats and, you know, those things sell, right? Like that. My parents, like, you know, who are constantly asking me like, should I buy this? Should I not buy this? And what we grew up on as kids, I grew up in, you know, the 80s, and it was like, oh, well, this is healthier, right? Like this TV dinner. It says it's nutritious and it's healthy. And I had two working parents and, you know, eating pizza every single night in New Jersey. It was like, oh, well, it's healthy, right? Like, it's the way to. It's the way to be. Funny enough, I was actually a runner. So it was like we grew up on high carbs. It was like bagel and waffles for breakfast and pasta lunches and pasta dinners. And it was like carb, carb, carb. So that could have also had something to do with my metabolic issues.

[Dr. Nicole Saffire]

Well, chef Andrew Guru, thank you so much for joining us today. I am certainly going to make my own vinaigrette now. I'm going to try that mayonnaise. We'll see if I can slip it into some sandwiches. But I'm telling you, as a food connoisseur, you have to put together a cookbook to tell us what we can do to get rid of these seed oils and these healthy alternatives. Because let me tell you, when it comes to, like, mayonnaise, it wouldn't occur to me to make my own mayonnaise. And you make it sound, sound so simple. Although I'm sure it's not as simple as you may think it is. But I'm willing to give it a try.

[Chef Andrew Gruel]

All right, wonderful. I appreciate that. Well, I. And I'll send you, I have Andrew Groul's family cookbook. We did 50 recipes that are just for, like, the family. The kids did them all seed oil free. I'll make sure I get one out to you.

[Dr. Nicole Saffire]

I can't wait. Thanks so much. You're listening to Wellness Unmass. We'll be right back with more.

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[Dr. Nicole Saffire]

So listen, after having this conversation I think everyone's probably a little scared of these omega 6 fatty acids linoleic acids. Bottom line, the findings of the study, they do not warrant blanket avoidance of all seed oils. But just like I've said at nauseam, everything in moderation and selectivity. Especially for those with high risk individuals, those who are trying to decrease their risk of cancer and disease and get to a healthier weight. Maintaining a healthy weight loss weight via balanced nutrition, regular exercise. It's one of the actionable steps that you can take to not only improve your cardiovascular and metabolic disease risk, but also your cancer risks. I want to thank my colleagues at Cornell for doing this important study and bringing light to some of the toxins that we have in our everyday food prep. Also, I want to thank my friend Chef Andrew Grup for giving us some tips on how to avoid this potential cancer causing and collaboration ingredient. I'm Dr. Nicole Safire, your host of Wellness Unmasked.

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