Christian Mucha (4:08)

Thank you so much, Jim, for having me. And it's a great opportunity, obviously, but you're right. Yeah. I mean, it's a busy time for a couple of weeks now for me and my team, but we are on our way.

Jim Stengel (4:17)

What is life like for you two weeks out? I mean, is it calm? Is it hectic? What kind of issues are you working through?

Christian Mucha (4:24)

First and foremost, I prefer to be in my home office these days and not being on the road anymore. So I get most things done when I'm sitting in front of my own laptop. But I'm heading over to Miami very soon next week. It's not hectic. I mean, we are not doing this for the very first time. And the team is so experienced, which is great. On the other hand, and this is a beauty, maybe because of our industry, maybe because of the event industry. Every morning when I wake up, you know, I have something else surprising me in my in my inbox or the team is approaching me with something new. People are coming up with new ideas every day and till the last minute. And that's the biggest challenge, right? To still identify where is still a great opportunity for us, where can we still make things happen or whether it's simply too late. Right. And we need to focus on next year. I think that's the biggest challenge these days.

Jim Stengel (5:16)

That's a good challenge, right? People are coming with ideas, opportunities, energy that's what you want. What are you most looking forward to this year in Miami?

Christian Mucha (5:23)

As I said in previous talks, yes, we are running a business, and that means we are looking for some growth potential in terms of. Yes, having more people out of the industry coming to Miami. But this is not the priority number one goal for us. It's not about numbers itself. It's about having the right people in the room. So I'm looking forward to seeing everybody who really plays a role in that wider industry, which includes a lot in today's marketing world and if they have a good time. And what does it mean, having a good time? It's not an entertainment event. Yes, we are in Miami. It's. It's not too bad to be there, obviously, you know, and we do a lot indoor and outdoor, so it is definitely a different environment than, let's say, Vegas or another city. But I would like to see people going home with, you know, something in their hands with a lot of benefits taking out of this. And if this happens, then I'm happy, my team is happy, and then everything is good.

Jim Stengel (6:16)

Your purpose for this conference is very ambitious. Right. To define the future of marketing, to turn connections into tangible business results. I know the numbers are part of it. Right. But how do you know you're making progress on that?

Christian Mucha (6:27)

First and foremost, we found ourselves a sweet spot between the. I call them boutique events, the small events, intimate events with maybe 100 or 200 participants, which makes highly sense specifically for CMOs. And because you're having different conversations there. But also then in between those events and the mass events, I call them mass events. Nothing wrong with that. I did it before. I did it with the Mexico. We blew it up to 60,000, 65,000 people. Yeah, but these are other type of events. You get other things out of this. And I believe there was something missing exactly in between those type of events. And this is where we see our sweet spot. And this allows us to still create more people being on site content, create connections, meaningful connections between the participants in a more meaningful way than the bigger events. Because it's, It's. I mean, I think it's obvious that you can't do it with 100,000 or 60, 70,000 people on that scale than with a couple of thousand people. And this is exactly where I believe we will be successful. And obviously, looking back, for the first three years, that was the case so far.

Jim Stengel (7:33)

This is your fourth year. By any measure, that's a huge success already. I've seen all of your numbers and what I really Admire. Christian, I want you to talk about this is you decided to do this, whatever, five, six years ago, and it's four years old. This is a cluttered category you've entered. Right. There's a good marketing event almost every week, yet you figured out a way to make a differentiated event platform that people find very relevant. Right before this podcast recording, I was talking to a client who's bringing a number of people to possible. She's super excited about coming. So could you talk a bit about what was your strategy four years ago or five years ago when this idea came to you and your team and what was the strategy then? How has it changed? What do you attribute this success to? Because you do have a differentiated event platform brand in a tough market.

Christian Mucha (8:24)

Yeah. Firstly, there were a lot of people who told me we shouldn't do this, I shouldn't do this, because we already have a lot of events. And this is true, we have a lot of events. As you said, the type of events as described before is different. Second, I believe that in today's world, and of course we see these massive changes and transformations every day across our organizations, across the entire business, new business businesses develop every day, which further extend our broader marketing world, which includes more technology than ever, which includes culture topics more than ever, creative aspects coming from the creator economy more than ever. And there was no event which embrace all these different businesses paying off into the marketing world at the end. So therefore coming from designing something from and for marketeers mainly, but also bringing everybody who provides value to brands, you know, together. And this was. It sounds pretty simple when I, you know, hear myself, but this is obviously which didn't exist in that case and at this scale. And I would say that was the main differentiator and still is.

Jim Stengel (9:33)

What was the catalyst? Was it a conversation you had? Was it something you thought about? Was it a mentor? What kind of tipped you over into doing it? What was the catalyst?

Christian Mucha (9:42)

It was during COVID we were all sitting at home or nearly. It came to an end, but it was sometimes in 21. And I had a lot of conversations with my network, specifically in the us a couple of people who are now also still involved, who became more investors, advisors, mentors as well. And the feedback was always the same, but nobody could really say what we need. And because of those conversations, I felt there is something. And then I looked into it a bit more. I worked closely with the mma, which is the industry body for marketeers. They were heavily supportive of that idea and agreed that we, we need something new, something fresh. So with that background, with this backing from so many individuals, influencers, I felt very confident to do this step during COVID leaving my country here under proper lockdown, not knowing if I can go back to my own family, leaving us to do the funding, bringing a lot of, you know, influencers on board because I knew if I get their backing then, then we will be successful doing it solely on my own, maybe I could do it as well. But with that backing and the belief into that concept and there was nothing else, just the concept and the vision and we all were very much on the same page and that was the initial start at the end.

Jim Stengel (11:05)

Now you have nine tracks of content this year at Possible and I know it's a lot of words, but I do want to read them out because I think it's an interesting reflection of the marketing industry today. So the nine tracks this year are future of creativity and brand building, second, Media innovations and storytelling techniques third Data analytics and measurement strategies. Fourth Gen Z insights and emerging social trends. Fifth, Social impact and purpose driven business. Next, the intersection of business and culture, AI, AdTech, MarTech, breakthroughs and innovations, the rise of the creator economy and last, startups and entrepreneurship. It's a great list. How do you arrive at that? How do you choose those tracks and not others at the end?

Christian Mucha (11:46)

We are listening to the market. It's not our own belief. Yes, of course we will monitor all year round. We will listen a lot to our market partners and this is what they come up with. Also do an analysis, what kind of business developed, how well they're doing, talking to the marketeers as well as the core group, what are they looking for, what type of businesses they need to, well, survive, to do better, to stay connected with the audience in tomorrow's world. That all comes together and then I have a wonderful team who spends tons of hours and hours and hours to look into other events as well. What is missing maybe at other events because of the size of those events. In other words, what are the needs but who can provide these insights in a good way? And second, what pays off with our original thinking to embrace the wider marketing world? As you said 10 years ago, we wouldn't talk about creator economy. AI is somewhere part of every discussion, but you need to narrow it a bit down. You need to focus on is it a pure tech discussion or are we are now talking about AI as an infrastructure and no longer a tool, which I think everybody is getting tired of it, you know. Yes, we know about the potentials. We heard this now for a couple of Years now it's time to do the step further. These are the beliefs or the thoughts behind that kind of agenda. But again, it will change. Pretty sure it will change for next year. And this is where we focus on. We don't come up with a theme every year because I don't believe into this, you know, I don't believe there is a theme which covers everything in our today's world, business world, and everybody forgets as soon as you're on site. At least I see it for myself every time. So possible is its theme. Of course, we came up with the name on purpose. We want to provide a positive momentum for the entire industry. Everything is possible. We can turn every challenge, every problem into possibilities, which I think it's really true with that industry. But yeah, it's sometimes it's tricky. And we would like to guide people and create also with such an agenda or range of topics so that creation happens per individual session, per connections, per agenda, through the agenda. That's the idea.

Jim Stengel (13:58)

Where do you think the most energy will be this year of those nine tracks? Is it impossible to say or what's your thinking?

Christian Mucha (14:04)

I'm just reflecting what people tell me and a lot of people told me so far is that level of energy when you're on site is so unbelievable and you won't experience this anywhere else. And why is that? I believe because of that concept to bring the entire wider marketing world together in one spot. But here it comes. It is still one central place. Yes, we're expanding this year from Fontainebleau into the Eden Rock and Noble hotel next door onto the beach as well. But it's still in walking distance. It's one minute walk from A to B to C. And if we look into other big events, you have to jump in a car, in a cab and drive 20 minutes to one hotel to another, from one hotel to another. Or you walk a mile up and down the street to go from A to B. This provides that dynamic. You're running into each other three days in a row. And despite that central place, we have so many different formats and I think this is so unique. And this, this is. I. I already have goosebumps talking about this because I can, I can already feel it, you know, going into this, into the venues and see the people connecting and talking and creating business opportunities. Are you really buying a car online on autotrader right now?

Andrea Sullivan (15:26)

Really?

Christian Mucha (15:27)

At a playground? Yeah.

Andrea Sullivan (15:28)

Really? Look at these listings from dealers.

Christian Mucha (15:31)

Wow, your search can really get that specific.

Andrea Sullivan (15:33)

Really.

Christian Mucha (15:34)

And you just put in your info and boom. Cars in your budget.

Andrea Sullivan (15:37)

My budget. Mom needs a second.

Christian Mucha (15:38)

Honey, you can really have it delivered.

Andrea Sullivan (15:40)

Really? Or I can pick it up at the dealership. One sec sweetie. Mommy's buying a car.

Jim Stengel (15:46)

Mommy, look.

Christian Mucha (15:47)

I think your kid is walking up the slide.

Andrea Sullivan (15:48)

Kyle again? Really?

Christian Mucha (15:50)

Autotrader, Buy your car online. Really?

Jim Stengel (15:57)

As the co founder of this, how do you spend your time in those three days? You have a strategy going in or do you have serendipity take over?

Christian Mucha (16:05)

It's relatively simple. Normally you would be easily caught in meetings and press conferences and things like that. I'm walking the floor. I do a few of these meetings but over three days I would say 70, 80% of my time. I'm moving around, I'm sitting in a session, I'm moving around. I'm going to the activation spaces of all my partners. I'm joining an intimate peer to peer conversation around table between CMOs which we provide with the CMO lab. I'm spending time just in the lobby where thousands of people are coming together and of course with our side events as well, creating our selected guests. That's how I do it. I'm visible, I'm not hiding in meetings behind doors. I want to be part of that. I also would like to enjoy it in some way like the attendees, but also listen to them, you know and

Jim Stengel (16:53)

what's going on now you get around. We're going to talk about that in a minute. But you talk to a lot of senior marketers in your travels and of course that possible and preparing for it. What do you see as the common kind of characteristics in the best of the marketing people you work with? So if you're talking to CMOs or senior marketing people, what to you stands out of those that you admire most?

Christian Mucha (17:16)

Honesty. What I experience is that we all know and I think that relates specifically to CMOs and brands because everybody wants to be connected with brands and get their feedback from CMOs directly. And of course we see that it's not necessarily happen on in a panel discussion on stage in front of hundreds or thousands of people, having the opportunity to spend time with CMOs on site but also all year round and get the honest feedback what's on their agenda and see the different, partly very different situations across industries, across organizations. And I admire most those who are honest with me as a neutral counterpart or platform at the end and share a lot of insights with me which helps me a lot to serve the industry with what we're doing. As you can imagine that that range of feedback is very broad. Everybody seems to be in a very special situation within an organization. Of course, it makes a huge difference if you talk to an enterprise CMO or a startup CMO or tech CEO. But that is what I would highlight most and where I take most benefits out of this for myself to better understand what's going on. And of course, for the event, how we serve the industry.

Jim Stengel (18:29)

What do you sense they're struggling with most? I mean, is there a commonality? Is it talent? Is it handling transformation?

Christian Mucha (18:37)

Honestly, I think it's a mix of. Yes, how to set up the organizations. It's a lot about their own role within organizations. What I can say. We all know there are CEOs, there are CDOs, there are CFOs, and obviously that role of a CMO changed a lot. And I believe it's the mix of how to set up the organization in the era of AI and other things to be considered, but also their individual situation, how to. I wouldn't say survive. That's not the right word, but how to perform, how to improve the role as a cmo. Where we come from. I think this is the most fascinating and challenging thing for all of them.

Jim Stengel (19:16)

And it's evergreen. Right. It's never going out of fashion. They'll always be wrestling with that because everything's changing.

Christian Mucha (19:22)

Absolutely. The dynamics are different. Obviously, it's more dynamic than ever. Pace is different, complexity is different. But as you said. Yeah, I think that's not specific to CMOs or to organizations. It's more or less part of our life today.

Jim Stengel (19:36)

Now, from what I've read about how you spend your time, you seem to be on planes a lot. You go to a lot of conferences, you get out and about looking at what else is happening in the industry. So I often get asked this question, Christian, and I'm not as. As qualified to answer as you are. I get this question a lot. What conferences should I go to? I can't go to all of them. I can pick a few. You're the guy. So when you get that question, of course, possible, it has to be up there in your top three. But how do you handle that? What do you tell people when they ask you your advice on that? Because I bet they do.

Christian Mucha (20:06)

You're right. Possible it has to be in the top three. Possible first, possible second, possible third, and then. Well, as you can imagine, it's this really. And honestly, it's. For myself, it's tricky to highlight a dedicated one because this is exactly why I believe possible was needed. I cannot see one single event which Provides everything for me and therefore, I believe for everybody else. It's a combination of events and I believe into those smaller events, boutique events, how we call them, which. Because the type of that event is so different than a ces, for example, or Mobile World Congress or Ken Lyons with tens and tens of thousands of attendees, your agenda is automatically different. You have to be differently prepared to go to those events. It's a mix of those. But what I can see is it's all about budget for. For many. But more important, it's about time. People are more selective. Senior executives, probably brands and CMOs are more selective than ever where to go and where to spend their time. I think time is definitely something more valuable than asking just for budgets. And if somebody comes to Miami, in this case possible, that's the biggest ask I can have to ask for somebody's time to be with us. So the answer is it's a mix of events, I would suggest, but less in terms of total numbers.

Jim Stengel (21:27)

Yeah. Are there any events that you never miss that you go to every year other than your own?

Christian Mucha (21:33)

Yes, but this is definitely also under the perspective, of course, what type of other industry events, how the. How do they develop? It's more under the competitive. What our clients do with other events. I barely can really sit at other events and really learn for myself. That's the downsides. You know, I'm, I'm. I'm. If I go to Cannes, if I go to ces, if I go to more events like the MMA Summit or the. And others, I have to observe other things than just listening to all these great content. I would love to do it more, but that's. That comes along with my individual job. And when I go to those events, but those ones I've mentioned, I love to see new events also in very different regions. I spent years ago a lot of in Asia. Those events which are covering the Asian region, but not necessarily the global, be there on a global scale. Yes. I've seen, I think, every single event in the industry. Does it mean I need to go back to each of them every year? No, because most of them, they, I would say, do not change a lot. Is it good? Is it bad? I mean, that's everybody's decision. I tell my team every year, again, we need to review everything. Everything we did last year needs to be reviewed. Is it still valuable enough? I believe we should keep with our core positioning and concept and character of the event, but how to execute, how to adjust with new formats to serve your audience in a better way that needs to be reviewed every year. And you cannot just take it for granted. You know, what you did last year or what we do this year in two weeks will be successful next year.

Jim Stengel (23:05)

Again, I'd like you to reflect on. You've been in the conference business, event business for about 20 years and before that you were going to events because you were at AOL and Yahoo and other things. Can you think about a very meaningful event experience you have had that sticks out in your memory? Maybe it's a first time or maybe it's something where you met someone that led to something.

Christian Mucha (23:28)

I would say it was definitely similar to you. I would say, you know, my first Cannes Lines was in the 90s when we know it was a purely creativity festival. It happens only at the Palais de Festival and all these things. And of course, then coming back in the early 2000s and see this shift as it developed, that was very interesting to see and how those worlds came together in some way. And that was, yes, early 2000s when we started back in Germany. I was based in Germany at this time working for Yahoo, representing the growing interactive, digital kind of advertising sales world, which we call, how we call it at this time. And then I believe a market like Germany needs something similar. And that was the idea, by the way, for in early days for DMexico. I think that was something important for me to see that this becomes relevant when also such a traditional event with so much legacy and history like Ken Lyons turns into what it is today. Yeah, I would say that this provided a lot of inspiration and ideas.

Jim Stengel (24:31)

I guess I had a small part in that. I brought P and G to Cannes Lyons in 2003 and then everybody followed.

Christian Mucha (24:37)

Yeah, of course.

Jim Stengel (24:38)

But it was a very different conference even in 2003 than it is now. Very different.

Christian Mucha (24:42)

Right. And I think this is the beauty to see and also for me how to predict and independent from an individual event platform. There are changes, there are developments. I believe it is necessary. Those ones who stick for what they did for years won't be successful over the time. But how much change is reasonable without losing your core part, your core belief in what you represent? I think that's a challenge for us running that business every day or every year. Yeah, that's absolutely the biggest challenge for us as an event organizer.

Jim Stengel (25:17)

Foreign.

Andrea Sullivan (25:23)

Hey everybody, this is Andrea Sullivan, the CEO of Vive and we produce the CMO podcast and are so excited to have partnered with Jim Stengel for so many years. Wanted to tell you a little bit about something that could be right for You Vive is a program for entrepreneurs and business leaders who want to get more out of their life and become their best and happiest selves, both personally and professionally. We have a 12 month program that allows people to meet up with some of the best business leaders out there and additionally experts in the wellness sector so that you can learn how to nurture yourself. So we teach things around sleep optimization, meditation, all those good things as well. Please reach out to us at Podcastive Co to get more information. That's P O D C A S T S at Vyve Co. Thanks for listening to the CMO podcast and hope to talk to you more about Vibe.

Jim Stengel (26:23)

I want to talk a bit about your career path. We sort of are already going there. You've had such an interesting journey. You were at AOL and Yahoo in the early 2000s when they were big brands, right? Big important brands, innovative brands. Then you decided to start the Mexico, which we talked about in 2008, which became a very large digital marketing conference expo held in Cologne, Germany. I met you there in 2015, so 11 years ago. We both looked great back then. We both look great right now.

Christian Mucha (26:49)

We're still looking great. We're still looking great.

Jim Stengel (26:51)

A little different, but great. So take us back to the early days of Mexico. I asked you what was the catalyst for possible. But you were not in the event business, right? You were in the Internet commerce business. And what was the origin story of.

Christian Mucha (27:07)

Yeah, yeah, it's a good question. You're right. I was coming from the industry, right. I was one of the first guys back in the 90s in Germany who sold an ad banner. And then I saw that opportunity and I got hired by aol. The merger between Bertelsmann and America Online for Europe. And then Yao hired me to run their European business. I moved over to Wendy Harris Millard's unit over to New York to run the global FIFA partnership at this time. So that was super exciting. And then I've met a guy, Frank, who came up with the idea for the German market. We need an industry event and we need something, you know, what happens now in other countries as well. We need something to represent our growing industry and we spend a lot of time together. And with his event background and my industry background, we decided it's time to do something like dmexico. And that was the initial start. And then I moved over to the event business. But representing very strongly the industry world. Right. I knew what the advertising marketing business wants, what we needed at this time. First for the German market Then European, and then we became a truly global event. So that was my move into that world.

Jim Stengel (28:17)

You seem to have found your calling. Right, Because New Mexico grew to be enormous. 50, 60,000 people, whatever. Impossible is a very different sort of thing now. But you obviously love this. What is it about this kind of work, Christian, that gives you energy, that you're passionate about it? I can tell. What is it about it?

Christian Mucha (28:35)

Yeah. For somebody not being in that industry, it sounds crazy to work all year round for an event which only happens a couple of days a year. I remember I told Frank, my co founder for New Mexico, I told him, okay, now we did the event, now we can go on holiday for six months and then we start again. And he said, not really. And of course he was right. That's fascinating. You work all year round on so many ideas, on your own, with your team, with your partners. And of course, not everything can be realized or executed, but a lot. And this is every year it feels like you create something brand new from scratch again. And this is the fascinating thing. It's not business as usual. You're not just saying, ah, I have to do it again. And working with so many different cultures because it becomes not just bigger, it becomes more international. The entire industry, as you can imagine, working with brands, working with agencies, creative media agencies, creator economy, consultancies, tech companies, smart tech companies. The variety of expectations is so broad. This is the fascinating part, and I think you still hear it, right, that this is not becoming boring.

Jim Stengel (29:48)

That's the reason why it makes sense. No, it's fun. I'm not in your line of work, but I certainly enjoy your line of work.

Christian Mucha (29:54)

Thank you.

Jim Stengel (29:54)

I go to a lot of events, I go to a lot of conferences and they all have something to offer, of course, but it's also up to the attendee, right? How you come into it, your mindset, how much you engage. And that's all. That's a big part of it.

Christian Mucha (30:07)

Yes, we set the framework with the best knowledge we have and everything. But then it comes down to the attendees and the partners, how they execute, how they connect, how they dive in. If you do it right, then you immediately feel the difference and that people obviously enjoy to come back. It's not just business, it's also a small part of enjoyment, especially the location in Miami. Right. You don't need to travel around the world. It's in our own country. It's a perfect spot. The weather is good. It's a good timing in April, in between other events. So, yeah, it works well now you

Jim Stengel (30:42)

chose to make New Zealand your home, I think back in 2007.

Christian Mucha (30:46)

That's correct, yeah. 19 years ago now.

Jim Stengel (30:48)

And you're still there?

Christian Mucha (30:49)

I'm still there. I'm currently also, if my background does not indicate this, it's a virtual one. But no, I'm still here looking out to the sea. And what we've chosen, what we've chosen 19 years ago as our new home, which is Nelson on the South Island. And that was a lifestyle decision. Right. That was the time when I left Yahoo. My wife was working as well and we both decided now it's time. We're still young enough. Our son was two years old. He was born in Munich, he's a Bavarian, but of course was two years old and coming to New Zealand. He's now 22 and obviously more Kiwi than German, if you can say it. But this is our home. And the plan was slightly different. So we wanted to move for lifestyle reasons. And then three weeks after our move, I told my wife, I'm flying back to Germany. I have a new business idea which became New Mexico.

Jim Stengel (31:34)

Wow. So you made the choice for lifestyle. Is it to be in nature? Is it to develop different hobbies or skills or passions? When you say lifestyle, what do you mean?

Christian Mucha (31:45)

It's definitely nature. I mean, think about it, compared to the us it's a so much smaller country. At this time we had only 4 million population. I think when we arrived it was still 30 million sheep, 4 million people. Now it's 5 million and 20 million sheep. Still good ratio. It's the mix of cultures here you are so much welcomed if you come from outside the country. It's a very international community, so open minded. And then the Kiwis and the mix of other cultures, it brings you down. It's so much more relaxed but not lazy. Right. And this is what we were looking for. I mean, as you can imagine, around the 2000s, working for those big Internet brands. It was, you know, it was 24 7, you know, as we all did and still do. And we were looking for something else for our family, which was the key reason. Yeah.

Jim Stengel (32:36)

So most of your business is though, in the US and Europe, I assume. How do you, what's, what's your hack for managing that? You must be on planes a lot.

Christian Mucha (32:45)

I still believe that it's people's business. This is, by the way, why we still believe in events. Right. Despite all the digitalization, obviously. And this is true, independent from COVID blah, blah, blah. It will never go away. So people want to be in the same room. And I believe we haven't seen each other for some time now, couple of years, but we've met several times in person. And now being reconnected and having this conversation, it is a difference because we've met before at some stage. And also if it's just for a coffee, it changed a relationship. And this is what I believe. So therefore, yes, spending a lot of time being on the road, being with my clients, my network, talking to people, listen to people. I do it now for 19 years or prior with the US brands as well, but especially, you know, from New Zealand. So at the end, Covid was not a big change for me in terms of working remotely and also creating something new from the other side of the world. When we launched New Mexico, it was during the financial crisis. It wasn't easy. At this time, I was in New Zealand. I had a partner being in a business partner being based in Germany. Possible it was me with my network in the us But I had no team. So obviously, yes, it means a lot of commitment. You have to jump on a plane during your lockdown in your own country, not knowing what happens when you want to come back. The government told me we cannot guarantee this. Also if you're a citizen, which was a bit weird, but it worked out. So it's a lot of commitment and energy and support from your partners, but also from your family. It works. And then you have to find your rhythm. Still being on the road, still being visible. You cannot hide, you cannot say, no, it's done and it's will go forever. But of course, the rhythm has to change. You cannot do it every week. But I'm back in the US nearly every month, every second month later. I think that's important to still have this personal relationships, being in the same room from time to time. I believe into this.

Jim Stengel (34:46)

What's your favorite avocation in New Zealand? Is it hiking? Is it bicycling? Is it surfing? Is it skiing?

Christian Mucha (34:53)

I love to be on the water. Not necessarily sailing or surfing. If I have an engine underneath, that's. I like that. And then hiking a lot. Yes, hiking a lot, Biking a bit. Not so much. I still have a regular mountain bike, not an E bike, you know, doing the traditional way and really being here in nature, walking around, hiking. Yeah, a lot of hiking.

Jim Stengel (35:28)

All right, we're going to go into the creative brief, which we're kind of already there to close out the show. You've been a podcast host for, I think the past three years. You're in your third season. Of hosting a show.

Christian Mucha (35:37)

That's correct.

Jim Stengel (35:38)

Do you enjoy it?

Christian Mucha (35:39)

Absolutely. It's always super exciting to be on the other side of the desk. Of course you know it better than everybody else that it depends, you know who is with you. And the conversations are so different also if you have a framework and an idea in mind. But I have to say, you know, I'm talking to people mostly from our industry, from all kind of different businesses. But that is such a life industry, you know, you need to be prepared on one hand, on the other hand starting talking to people in our world. It's an easy way for a great conversation. So yes, I definitely enjoy this.

Jim Stengel (36:12)

Have you learned anything about yourself as a host?

Christian Mucha (36:14)

Yes. In terms of that you should not be over prepared first thing. And the same when you go on stage, for example, etc. It is with some experience now and of course having good people to talk to. Running a conversation and also changing topics is the most fascinating way for me. And again listening also in a podcast, asking questions is one thing, but having a real conversation and therefore this is where you where you learn most from others, from other individual people, from their businesses, from their beliefs. This is what I would like to get out from every single podcast I'm doing.

Jim Stengel (36:52)

Yeah, it's a nice blend of. I mean I've been doing it even longer than you. It's a nice blend of being prepared but also being open to serendipity and to following interesting leads in the conversation. It's a combination of thinking and listening. Thinking and listening.

Christian Mucha (37:07)

Yes. And also think about what is in your own interest as a host. But also does it cover your listeners needs or recurrence?

Jim Stengel (37:14)

Yeah, that's right.

Christian Mucha (37:15)

That's sometimes a bit tricky. But again I believe if it's interesting for me and you're the host and people can make a choice, right. There's no obligation. And then I think if it's good for me and interesting for me, then hopefully it's for the audience as well.

Jim Stengel (37:30)

Christian, you're two for two in event platforms impossible. Do you have a third one in you?

Christian Mucha (37:35)

As you can see, I'm not 20 anymore and I promised my wife, you know, 19 years ago when we moved to New Zealand. I simply don't know. I don't have any plans. It's all about possible. And again, I'm not 20 anymore. I did it then twice and it doesn't mean that it comes to an end soon. So the answer is no, nothing else planned. But you never know. I'm stopped planning for the next five, 10 years because as we all know, so much things happen.

Jim Stengel (38:01)

How do you use your time on airplanes we talked about? You're in the US maybe once a month. That's a very long flight. I've taken that flight. What do you do? Do you use time to read, reflect, watch movies, sleep?

Christian Mucha (38:15)

It's interesting. When I'm leaving New Zealand means going away for business purpose, obviously. Then it's more about getting prepared and finding these quiet hours on the plane to get into details, reading a brief, prepare meetings which, which will come up soon after landing. When I'm flying home, it's all about sleeping well because this is of course the most healthiest way to survive that kind of life. I can now sleep well as soon as I am hopping on a plane. I therefore prefer the longer flights when everything calms down instead of these just six, seven hour flights. I prefer the 12 plus hour flights because then you're okay, you come back into the different time zone and then you're fine with that. But therefore it's different if you fly over to the US for business instead of flying back. And then of course I'm always getting younger flying over because of the deadline. When I'm coming back, I'm always getting a day older. So I'm trying to figure out how to skip this, but I couldn't so far.

Jim Stengel (39:15)

When you figure it out, let us know.

Christian Mucha (39:17)

Yes.

Jim Stengel (39:18)

What's the first brand you remember making an impact on you as a young boy?

Christian Mucha (39:22)

Wow, that's a really good question. And if I would think more through, maybe others come up, but I would say when I had to choose my first own, when I bought my own first owned car and obviously it was around when I was 18, I immediately wanted to have a car and I was very much in this Golf generation VW Golf.

Jim Stengel (39:43)

Sure.

Christian Mucha (39:44)

That was my dream car at this time. So I was very much into this brand. Yes. And I spent a lot of time to figure out which one is exactly the right one for me. Of course a used car, not a new car obviously. But that would be my initial response when I was around 18 years old. Obviously there were other brands when I was younger, but to be honest, I cannot recall immediately.

Jim Stengel (40:02)

Are you still a Volkswagen fan?

Christian Mucha (40:05)

No, but it's still a German brand. Yeah, I'm driving a BMW these days.

Jim Stengel (40:10)

Yeah, I've had BMWs across my career. Not, not right now actually in driving I have a Ford Mach 3 electric, which I love.

Christian Mucha (40:18)

Well, I also have a, you know, I bought a nice Vespa the other day and Luckily, I can use this here in that region, which is still. We are now in fall, but it's still warm enough to use the Vespa, and it's more economical, you know, especially these days, instead of driving the BMW. So that's good.

Jim Stengel (40:37)

Christian, who's been the most inspiring person in your life?

Christian Mucha (40:40)

Definitely my son. He's now 22. I think I've mentioned this before, how this generation not just grew up, but also with these different cultural backgrounds. You know, born in Germany, family still there, but growing up here in New Zealand. Second, that generation who had to go through Covid when it was normally the most exciting time for a young adult, and how he came out of this and then performing at university, and now live his own life in Auckland, but still in New Zealand, but a different city. And of course, a lot of more things. But, yeah, it's my son, you know, he's now teaching me more than I can teach him. Obviously, there was a time when it was a bit different, but now it turned and I enjoy this.

Jim Stengel (41:26)

My children are older than yours, but I have had the same philosophy as you. You learn so much from them.

Christian Mucha (41:31)

Yeah.

Jim Stengel (41:32)

So include them in your life and they will add tremendous things to it.

Christian Mucha (41:37)

Yes. And it's not the most obvious thing with tech and all these things, but it's more how they make decisions. Right. How. And to see that this process of decision making is slightly different. And it's interesting to figure out, is it just because they're younger, which would mean it would be the same with us and our parents, is it? Because obviously that type of generation, in terms of how they grew up, and then it comes down to this individual person, this individual character. And this is fascinating to see. And, yeah, this is how I really enjoy it, to talk to him. Not every day, but, yeah, regularly. And also if it's just a quick chat on screen, that's my answer. So it's definitely my son.

Jim Stengel (42:21)

That's a beautiful answer, and I relate to it. Christian, this has been a great conversation. We're releasing this in the middle of possible, so I hope you're having a great conference by the time this podcast is released. I'm sure you will. I have lots of friends coming. I'm sorry I can't be there this year, but I need to get it on the calendar for next.

Christian Mucha (42:40)

Absolutely. And thank you for having me. I really enjoyed that conversation. It was different. Absolutely outstanding. Thank you so much.

Jim Stengel (42:47)

That was my conversation with Chris John. That was a good one. Three takeaways from this one for your business, brand and life. And I would put the accent on life here. And my first takeaway is live in a cool place. I mean, come on, the guy picked up his two year old and his wife and moved to New Zealand almost 20 years ago because they wanted to be in nature, lifestyle choices. And he's made his life work and he seems to be awfully happy about it. Second takeaway. Relate it. Find a career that gives you energy. Christian clearly loves doing what he does. His first one was to Mexico and it grew into something very large. He loves convening people, he loves the ideas, he loves the fluidity. He loves that they change every year. And so I think the guy is really turned on by what he does and I think it's very inspiring for all of us. And the last takeaway, and this is a fundamental one, Christjan's business is to bring people together for an amazing experience in real time, in person. There is still such an important place for in person meetups, both within your company and outside your company to network, learn, benchmark, find new ideas, find new partners. So I think this was a great conversation about the power of that and the importance of that. And by the way, and how to navigate it. That's it for this week's episode of the CMO podcast. As always, I would be grateful if you shared our show with your friends. Along with subscribing and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen. The CMO podcast is a vive original production.