← The CMO Podcast
Loading summary
Transcript83 lines
- [00:00]
A
Before we dive into today's episode, we would very much appreciate a moment from you to make sure you're subscribed to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen, along with optioning to auto download the episodes. It really is the best way to never miss an episode, along with supporting the show and the amazing team that helps me bring it to you. And while you're there, leave us a rating or review. It only takes a minute and helps more people find the show and helps us learn. And of course share this episode with a friend or colleague who might enjoy it. We wouldn't be here six years later and still going so strong without you all our community. So thank you for being part of it. Now, onto the show. What if the smartest marketing play is not to move forward, but to zoom out? Deloitte believes the most powerful move a CMO can make is to look beyond the next step and see the broader perspective. That's what the Deloitte CMO program is for, a place to gain fresh perspective and connect with leaders who've stood where you stand together. Deloitte will help you see the bigger picture so your next move isn't just fast, but right. Learn more about the CMO program@cmo.deloitte.com hi everyone, it's Jim. I have Matt Spiegel of TransUnion with me. Matt, I want to start with what do you love about your job?
- [01:15]
B
Yeah, it's a great question, Jim. You know what I love? The fact that I get to be out at events and conferences and working with clients to really think about how marketers solve problem matter at scale. The job of a marketer is as challenging as ever and we get to do some interesting things to make their job easier.
- [01:30]
A
When you work with a client, where do you get the most satisfaction?
- [01:33]
B
You know what I think seeing ideas come to reality. We ultimately are an enable of great marketing. So we don't do creative, we don't do media planning. We provide the data, the identity insights, the measurement tools that make great marketing possible. So when we get to see the end product, sometimes later, it's really cool to see.
- [01:48]
A
Well, super to have you here. Super to be a partner. Thanks for joining us today.
- [01:52]
B
Thank you Jim.
- [01:53]
A
So if you want to turn data into understanding and understanding into growth, visit transunion.com clarity hi everyone, it's Jim. I'm here with Matt Spiegel, EVP of True Audience Growth Strategy at TransUnion. Matt, you've spent your career helping marketers understand people through data. And that's harder and more important now than ever.
- [02:11]
B
It really is, Jim. There's really just so much information out there, and unfortunately, it's often disconnected. Marketers typically see fragments, you know, maybe a purchase here or a click there. But what they really need is clarity. True full picture their customers are and ultimately how to reach them.
- [02:25]
A
Well, tell me how your solution strategy comes in and helps CMOs and their teams bring clarity to chaos.
- [02:32]
B
Well, Jim, we ultimately do that with a 360 view of the customer. So it's about ultimately combining data, truly trusted data, identity resolution, which is a deep analytical problem, and measurement that actually helps understand performance. So ultimately, we work hard to help marketers move faster, to deepen their insights to and to ultimately make every dollar work harder. We believe strongly that when you truly understand your audience, you can build a real brand and real relationships with customers that last.
- [03:00]
A
Where were you when I was a cmo? I don't know how to answer that. Learn more@transunion.com clarity that's transunion.com clarity what's the first brand you remember making an impact on you?
- [03:12]
C
The first brand that really stuck with me as a kid was Spam. Growing up in my Korean immigrant family, spam was a staple, and it meant comfort and home. But once I started school, completely different story. As a kid trying to fit into American school culture, opening my lunchbox and seeing a spam sandwich, it marked me as different. And now I love that spam is having this cultural glow up. So a brand that once embarrassed me in the cafeteria is now a cultural icon. It's the perfect reminder that brands don't have fixed meanings. People and culture give them meaning. And honestly, spam taught me that before any brand strategy ever did.
- [03:58]
A
Hi, I'm Jim Stengel. I've helped hundreds of major brands discover and activate their purpose. Because when a brand's purpose is clear, compelling and authentic, profit naturally follows. Each week, I welcome the CMOs, the chief marketing officers of your favorite brands, to speak to how their job is so much more than marketing. These leaders share their inspiration and challenges along with how they try to build a full, healthy, and happy life in and out of the office. And it's that energy that reaches everyone they touch. And we're glad you're here to feel that energy and to learn from these remarkable leaders. So here we go. Very few brands have undergone a transformation as profound and as culturally relevant as coach. And my guest today is at the head of that change. June Silverstein is the chief marketing officer at Coach and one of the most forward thinking leaders in fashion. Coach is part of Tapestry Inc. The New York based global house of accessory and lifestyle brands that also includes Kate Spade. This past fiscal year, Tapestry achieved a record $7 billion in annual revenue driven largely by double digit growth at Coach, underscoring the brand's strength and accelerating momentum. My guest June's impact at Coach spans more than a decade. She joined the brand in 2014 as SVP of global customer Experience and went on to lead digital, creative sustainability and North America Marketing. In 2023. June and team launched Coachtopia, coach's groundbreaking sub brand built with and for Gen Z. We'll talk about that today. Before joining Coach, June built her strategic chops at the Boston Consulting Group where she spent eight years and then sharpened her craft at Victoria's Secret and Louis Vuitton where she spent six formidable years. And we will discuss that. So here is my holiday conversation with the CMO who is leading the charge of welcoming new audiences to the Coach brand. Here's June. June, welcome to the CMO podcast. We are recording this, of course, in December, so let's kick off with how you and your family are celebrating the holiday season this year.
- [05:58]
C
Well, first, hi Jim. Thank you so much for having me. I'm a big fan of your podcast, so thank you. I'm really looking forward to this conversation.
- [06:05]
A
Super. So what about the holidays? You're a skier, right? You're going to get out in the slopes?
- [06:09]
C
Yes, well, I recently moved back to New York City from Colorado where we've been living for five years. And so for the holidays we're headed right back there with my family. We've missed it a lot and I cannot wait to be back in the mountains again and skiing. It gives me such a sense of balance. My husband and I are actually born and bred New Yorkers, but coming back to New York after Colorado, I have to say, has definitely been a reintegration. Yeah, you immediately feel the pace again, the intensity, the urgency, the ever escalating expectation of convenience and speed. And Colorado is just the opposite. It sort of slows everything down. Yeah, but I love both the intensity energy of New York and the grounding that, you know, comes from being in the mountains.
- [06:56]
A
What do you do in New York to get a bit of that grounding? Do you get out in nature when you can?
- [07:01]
C
Well, we've only been back a couple of months.
- [07:03]
A
Oh, okay.
- [07:04]
C
But yes, we're very much an outdoor family. I met my husband rock climbing, so we do a lot. And there is a Lot to get out around New York.
- [07:12]
A
Now, this holiday season, from a business perspective and a retail perspective, how's it been different?
- [07:18]
C
Holidays at Coach used to be our exception season. The rest of the year we'd hold firm on brand principles, focus on brand messaging, fewer discounts. And then Black Friday would come and we'd basically say, well, everyone else is doing it, so we have to do it too. And this year we broke that pattern. We went into the season with real conviction. If we believe Coach delivers amazing value, breaking the industry compromise between craft and price, and if we believe discounting undermines our brand promise the rest of the year, then why would we suddenly shout discounts louder than our brand story? So for the first time ever, we led Black Friday with brand first, promo second. When you build real brand desire, you don't need to compromise your principles to win during the holidays.
- [08:07]
A
Now that must, that's the first time you've done it. That has some risk to it. Right, so how did you, I don't want you to talk about the results, but how did you handle that internally to sort of align everyone that we're going to approach this differently and the business risk is, you know, reasonable?
- [08:22]
C
Well, it's really the sort of courage and confidence we've built over this past multi year journey. So it wasn't a light switch we turned on or a discussion we had overnight. But I think over the past few years, and particularly this past year of accelerating our brand transformation, we've really made purpose and brand led growth our operating model. So as we came to this holiday, it was an easier discussion to have across our leadership team that we were committed to driving growth through Brand. We had had many discussions around the deselection barriers created by being on discount. We are seeing the momentum we have with acquisition driven by Brand and so there was a lot more confidence. But it's still, you know, it still took conviction, you know, it is still still the biggest time of the year. Winning during this period doesn't guarantee success for the year, but certainly if you don't win, you know, it's hard to win the full year. So, you know, it's really a testament to the strength of all our global teams. The shared consciousness we focused on building, the shared commitment we have to our brand growth model.
- [09:34]
A
Well, we'll talk a lot about that in a minute, but I watched a lot of video of you in prep for this episode and I have to say, June, you have a tremendous charisma and clarity and confidence and warmth about you. So I want you to Talk a bit about how that has been cultivated in you over time, because that doesn't just happen. Right.
- [09:56]
C
It's actually kind of strange for me to hear that compliment, because the truth is, confidence and charisma weren't things I naturally had. No, they were things I had to build and earn with myself over time. Growing up as a second generation Korean American, I didn't always feel seen. I wasn't always sure where or how I fit in. And I certainly didn't feel I had a voice. Now, that experience made me an observer, someone who watched closely, listened intently, you know, tried to understand the world from the edges. And that's what ultimately drew me to anthropology.
- [10:33]
A
That was your major undergraduate?
- [10:34]
C
It was, and it was my first career calling after I graduated. But it gave me a framework to make sense of people and identity and, you know, honestly to make sense of myself, you know, taught me that people and culture are fluid, evolving, multidimensional. And for me, that was. That was liberating. But confidence didn't suddenly appear because I studied people. No, I had to build it the hard way. You know, throughout my career, I have often stepped into the roles where I wasn't the traditional choice. I didn't have the textbook background. I certainly didn't always feel ready. But I learned something important, that courage comes before confidence. You act before you're fully prepared. And each courageous step expands your sense of what you're capable of. And that idea, courage as a precursor to confidence, is actually at the heart of our purpose at coach. Courage to be real. Which is why it resonates with me so deeply, because it mirrors my own journey. And when I coach others, that's what I try to develop. It's not the performance of confidence, it's the foundation for real confidence, which is ultimately about self trust. I want people to understand their own strengths and tensions with the same curiosity anthropology taught me. And I try to give them opportunities to stretch before they feel ready, because that's how courage and then confidence is built.
- [11:56]
A
There was a lot there. June, Wonderful. Could you talk about, you know, a pivotal experience that gave you that awakening of. It's about courage, and after that confidence and good things happen. Was there a boss or a time in your career where that kind of took form? Maybe, maybe not.
- [12:17]
C
You know, there's not one pinnacle moment. I think it's been built over multiple moments throughout my career. But as I mentioned, I've often stepped into the roles where I wasn't the traditional choice and I didn't have the traditional background. You know, When I joined Louis Vuitton, I was hired to reimagine the Louis Vuitton customer experience despite having no experience in luxury, you know, and it was quite intimidating, I would have to say. I coach, I have moved across functions. I have led digital and E commerce, sustainability, now marketing, without having a traditional background in any of those functions. So I think it's each sort of successive, you know, opportunity and challenge that, you know, builds that confidence over time and you know, gives you a sense of, of what you're capable of. I think my anthropology background too, I mean there's that are grounding, you know, doing fieldwork and dropping yourself in the middle of some culture and experience so far from your own sort of hones that sort of instinct and sense of self reliance.
- [13:28]
A
Yeah. Now you mentioned that you try to teach this with your people, go there a little bit more with us in terms of courage leads to confidence. Courage leads to stretching yourself. Courage leads to business success. Courage is part of your brand purpose. So how do you help others on their journey? You know, as you've, as others have helped you in your journey to be the person you are?
- [13:51]
C
You know, as I mentioned, I think a lot of growth comes when you are in stretch roles. A lot of growth comes in moments of change. And certainly in the industry we are in, there is, you know, constant change. Coach has been through so many evolutions and you know, along the way, lots of reorganizations as well. And you know, I try to encourage the team to always think about those moments as moments of opportunity. You know, when it comes to career, I always encourage. My career has been one of surprising lateral moves as well. I know everyone's so focused on like getting the next level and getting promoted. It's the constant question like, what do I have to do to get promoted?
- [14:29]
A
Yeah.
- [14:30]
C
Rather than thinking about the types of lateral moves or mobilities that help, you know, open your perspective, that help build you as a leader. I mean, I have had some really surprising moves. I remember when I was, you know, at Louis Vuitton, I was vp, I was on the leadership team. But the one thing I didn't have was operational experience. And you know, I wanted to become a general manager. And while I was leading global customer experience and I was very close to the stores, I had never run stores. So I went to run the Louis Vuitton flagship, the Maison Fifth Avenue, you know, in New York. And it was a really surprising move for someone of my level to go essentially run a store. You know, I remember people calling me and being like, what happened? You know, like, was I demoted? Like, did I do something wrong? And I was like, no, you know, I wanted to do this. I consider it one of the most important steps I've made in my career that unlocked so much more because it gave me this experience of, well, one, you know, of being a general manager. The Fifth Avenue Maison is like a business in and of itself. You know, you're leading at top to bottom. But I was also managing hundreds of people who were totally different from me. You know, I'd been used to managing people like me, you know, like MBAs. And you know, here I was managing. Oh, the team had all, I mean, they were there for all sorts of reasons with all sorts of motiv innovations and, you know, it really grew me as a manager. Those are the types of moves that I think, while it may seem that you're sort of taking a pause because you're moving laterally, then just can really jumpstart your career as a kind of surprising rocket fuel. So, you know, I think it's around encouraging people to think a little bit differently about their career. So, you know, and take, take some risks.
- [16:10]
A
That's a great lesson in that. I mean, you can never go wrong by getting closer to the customer and closer to the team. And at retail, Everyone seems to be chasing the next big thing, the fastest answer, the quickest win. But great CMOs believe the real power isn't in the speed, it's in stepping back to see the bigger picture. That's why everything Deloitte does in their CMO program, from their industry leading capabilities to their connected network of CMOs is, is designed to help you zoom out and gain fresh perspective. Deloitte will help you see the bigger picture together. Learn more about the CMO program@cmo.delloitte.com how are you a different leader? I mean, you were at Louis Vuitton for six years, right? How are you different from that? Six years?
- [17:02]
C
You know, this was a really interesting experience because I sort of ended up working there before I could really afford no. And it was really a surprising opportunity. You know, they brought me in again to reimagine the Louis Vuitton global customer experience. And it was a role they essentially created for me, you know, partly because I wasn't coming from the traditional luxury world, but it was an unusual move to bring in to create a brand new position with someone of my background. I was based in the North America bu but ended up driving the vision and the change globally. And I remember my first interview with the North America CEO. And I gave him my really honest, outsider take on what the Louis Vuitton experience felt like. And he later told me it unsettled him because he didn't have answers to the questions I raised. And the questions I raised, you know, were those of an outsider. When I joined, to be honest, I was intimidated. You know, European luxury felt really far from anything I had grown up with. And I mentioned to you before, my anthropology background really kicked in and grounded me. And, you know, it is the lens with which I led there, and it's an important lens with which I continue to lead today. But I had this moment where I thought to myself, you know, okay, you know, if I can live with and understand the Berber tribes in the Middle Atlas Mountains of Morocco, I can probably figure out rich people, you know, and that experience taught me something that I carry with me today, which is that being an outsider isn't a disadvantage to be overcome. You know, it can be a real source of clarity and insight. And I would say over the course of my career, it's been my superpower.
- [18:42]
A
One of your early jobs before you moved to Louis Vuitton, was at bcg, right? And you were there eight years, which is a lot at that. You know, the average tenure, I think, is like four for a starting consultant.
- [18:53]
C
Well, they sponsored my MBA during that time, so I also.
- [18:57]
A
Oh, okay. Well, still. But that's, again, an outsider, right? That's the benefit. That's why you hire a consultant. You want some outside expertise, outside perspective, you know, people to raise issues and questions that you're not thinking about. So I suspect your skills got honed pretty well with eight years at bcg, including the academic experience.
- [19:18]
C
Oh, absolutely. I credit my time at BCG with a lot of the foundational capability. I mean, really, what it taught me, there is not any particular skill, you know, and as you know, in consulting, you're constantly working on different business problems, different clients. You know, it gave me, I would say, the ability and the confidence to tackle any problem, to figure out how to break it down into its component parts. You know, how to tackle it, how to figure out how to solve it, how to get up to speed quickly on things. It's this sense of resourcefulness that I think coming out of it, you know, you throw a problem at me, and I will figure out how to reframe it, how to break it down and how to tackle it. And I think that's something that's just. It's such an important mindset and skill set to have and something that Consulting really hones in you.
- [20:09]
A
You've been at coach a long time, right? 11 plus years and you've been CMO about a year. And it's tricky, I think sometimes getting promoted in the company to be CMO of the company that you spend a lot of time in. So talk a little bit about that transition. A year ago, how did you think differently, if at all about how you're going to lead and spend your time? You know, when you were promoted to cmo?
- [20:33]
C
Yes. You know, I think it's not only as I've moved into this new role, but I think as you know, the brand has grown and you know, we're in a different place we were now than a year ago, two years, three years ago. We have real momentum. And I think now what my team and the brand needs from me has evolved. You know, in the early stages of transformation, the work was about building belief, right? Belief in the vision, opportunity, in our ability to flip the script and write our own playbook. And you know, now that we're experiencing real momentum, my role is increasingly about sharpening clarity, you know, creating conditions where creativity and bold thinking can thrive. And we're really focused on a few things. I think my role in sort of shaping culture, internal culture, I mean, is increasingly important. First, shared consciousness. We're really focused on building that within the organization because when everyone deeply understands purpose, priorities, consumer truth, it creates alignment. And I think, you know something, alignment creates boundaries while actually it creates freedom, you know, because we can move with speed when we're not second guessing direction. And you know, that's a big unlock for creativity. Second, what we're doing across the company is where I'm focused on my leadership. We're really focused on celebrating courage, not perfection. You know, Todd, the CEO, he's been a big proponent about creating a culture where we accept imperfection, but our purpose is courage to be real. And that applies internally as well. Right. We want teams to be able to take risks, take bold swings, stretch, experiment, but all with the same north star of brand led Gen Z focused, you know, acquisition driven growth and then giving people meaningful ownership. You know, at Coach, our, you know, just our DNA and our values. As a democratic organization, we've always been merit based. The best ideas come from everywhere in the organization, not just at the top. So we really try to create an environment where people feel trusted, invited into the process. You know, when, when people feel ownership, they bring their most inspired selves. And then, you know, lately I've been thinking a lot about my own communication style. You know, and how I'm trying to evolve it. You know, I've always been the leader, sort of passionately galvanizing teams around that big, bold vision, you know, kind of that sort of internal startup disruptor. But, you know, as we've grown and as I grow, you know, I've become much more focused on, again, driving clarity, consistency, coherence. We have this mantra in our external marketing, say less, more often with better creative, you know, and that same applies internally. So we're reinforcing the same messages again and again, building clarity and confidence that we're marching toward the same North Star. And then lastly, I've also been working on, you know, being more open emotionally at work. Showing vulnerability does not come naturally to me. I grew up in a family and a culture that expected and valued stoicism. But, you know, I recognize it's an important leadership tool. And, you know, that when I show where I am trying to stret, I get it gives others permission to do the same and that builds a culture of trust and that's the foundation for creativity and experimentation and having courage and taking risks. So, yeah, I would say, I guess there's a lot I'm focused on.
- [23:58]
A
What have you learned about that process for you in terms of opening up more, maybe adjusting your communication style as you've gotten more senior and the brand is larger? So what have you learned that others might benefit from?
- [24:11]
C
I mean, I think so much of my role is shifting to thinking about how I become the best enterprise leader I can become. And that means I think about my influence differently. And as we think about driving influence across broader and broader spheres, how do I think about how I can still connect personally emotionally with that sort of breadth of an organization? Right, because, you know, people close to you, right, they see you, you're working with them, and, you know, they're sort of like your N minus 1 and 2 and 3. But as you think about just the massive type of global organization we are, like, I have to think about how I show up and how I'm able to show my openness and vulnerability in different ways. It's definitely been a journey. I think we're all working on becoming stronger leaders. And sometimes you have to flex into. Well, I know you definitely have to flex into the areas where you're not so strong, you know, where your, your real strengths can sometimes become Achilles heels. And it's all the process and it makes. It's not just the journey we're on at Coach interesting. It makes my own journey always interesting as well. And now it's been a year in the role, so it's a good time to reflect.
- [25:28]
A
As I looked at your year, you know, I pulled three things away and like to talk about all three of them. The one is the journey to be the brand for Gen Z. Right. And the second one is the launching of Coachtopia, which I know happened in 2023, but continues. And the last one is, I think the way your brand partners with other brands, organizations, I think is pretty special. So those are the areas that I think you've certainly made an impact on and I hope you agree with that. But I'd sort of like to talk about those three. And I read a piece that you put on LinkedIn about the flip the script, the mindset shift at Coach to attract Gen Z fans. And you cited seven principles and I think they were amazing and I'd actually like to recite those and get you to talk about them. The first one is to go from a brand for everyone to a brand for Gen Z. Second, from consumers as buyers, you've already talked about this. To consumers as humans. From retention to acquisition, from performance driven to brand driven. It's your approach to the holidays this year, which we've already talked about. From short term focus to long term focus, from product led to purpose led and from more is more to focus and scale. I mean, those are amazing. So I kind of like to start with, how did you arrive at those principles and have the, I don't know, the confidence and the assurance to state them that clearly as the drivers of what your brand has become?
- [27:00]
C
Yeah, well, you know, we didn't start our brand transformation with those seven principles. So clearly it's been a learning journey and we're learning every day, you know, and a lot of these principles have been sort of hard fought and hard won and it's taken courage and oh, there have been moments of fear, you know, like, you know, that first year when nothing moved, you know. But I would say this past year has truly been one of the most exciting chapters in Coach's modern history and the strongest in over a decade. I'll give you a little context. We delivered four consecutive quarters of double digit growth, accelerating to 22% in the most recent quarter. Record gross margins. We brought in more new consumers than ever before. We're laser focused on acquisition, two and three of them being Gen Z or millennials. And the brand gained incredible cultural momentum from ranking number five on the list index of the world's hottest brands to being named one of Fast Company's Most innovative companies. You know, when I look back on this past year, the idea, as you mentioned, that I shared in my LinkedIn post that defines it is flipping the script. No, an outsized growth doesn't come from doing more of the same. Right? It comes from having the courage to imagine something different. And so for us, that meant moving beyond legacy notions of accessible luxury or traditional luxury and giving ourselves permission to write our own playbook. And at Coach, that meant starting not with the industry, not with the category, but with the consumer, deeply understanding who they are, how culture is shifting, the emotional trade offs they're navigating. That shift unlocked our purpose, courage to be real, and ultimately the growth model we're operating today. And over the past year we sort of doubled down on this mindset and we made bolder choices. And I'd highlight two really important ones which I had also mentioned in my LinkedIn post. First, we made purpose the engine of our performance. So we no longer view purpose and performance as a trade off. Purpose is hardwired into our operating system. It guides how we build the brand, plan media, design product, choose partners and show up in culture. And that's what's creating the emotional relevance and desire that makes performance truly durable. Second, we redefine the market we compete in. We shifted our focus from retention, fighting for loyalty at the bottom of the funnel in a fixed market to acquiring new consumers at the point of market entry. You know, in our markets, 25 million women turn 18 each year. We want to be their first luxury bag. And that shift transformed our growth headroom from what had been incremental share gains to now almost unlimited consumer driven opportunity. And as I reflect on this past year, I think what stands out most is, is that transformation is never just about strategy. It's about mindset, flipping the script, grounding ourselves in the consumer, giving ourselves permission to rethink the rules, has unlocked completely new level of momentum for Coach. For me, as a leader, it's reaffirmed that courage, clarity and unconventional thinking are powerful accelerants. And our focus now as a leadership team is to keep building a culture that embraces those qualities and creates the conditions for this type of growth. You know, turning now to how we became a journey to be the brand for Gen Z. I mean we, that has been our sole obsessive, you know, laser focus for the past few years, you know, and it is something that, you know, I've thought very deeply about and we've thought very deeply about, you know, because part of how we continue to drive growth going forward is understanding and being really crystal clear on the narrative what's driven our growth so far. So you know, at Coach, the journey to become the brand for Gen Z didn't start with a marketing brief. Again it started with listening. And this is my mantra through the whole thing. The consumer listening, understanding them. And as I mentioned, you know, we made a deliberate decision to flip the script. So instead of studying our category, we studied people, especially Gen Z. And on a human level we did, and we continue to do hundreds of ethnographic immersions with our consumers around the world. And we weren't just asking what they buy. We're working to understand their identities, their values, the emotional trade off shaping their lives. What we heard consistently was that this generation is defined by dualities. They care about sustainability, yet also crave self expression on a budget. They are hyperconnected, yet deeply lonely. They challenge brands, yet want a seat at the table. And most importantly, they see identity as multiple and fluid rather than singular or fixed. That understanding became the foundation for everything we do. It unlocked our purpose, courage to be real, which is about inspiring people to explore and express their many selves. And led us to define our position of expressive luxury, a term we created to describe a cultural shift we saw early on in our consumer immersions. Today's consumers, led by Gen Z, are redefining luxury from something rooted in status and exclusivity to something rooted in self expression. They're not asking what does this brand say about me? They're asking does this help me express who I am? We saw that Gen Z experiences identity as fluid and multidimensional and they want brands that welcome their many selves, not ones that prescribe a singular ideal. And so expressive luxury is our response. And it's incredibly relevant right now, especially as consumers question rising prices, unattainable aspiration and outdated luxury codes. So we didn't double down on traditional models again, we flipped the script and we built something rooted in emotional connection, community and creativity. And then another critical insight was that Gen Z doesn't want to be spoken at, they want to participate. They don't see themselves as consumers, they see themselves as co creators and increasingly that's how we build. So Coachtopia is the clearest example. It was created with a Gen Z Beta community who shape product storytelling, even the circularity principles behind the brand. And we're now carrying that approach into Coach, collaborating with boundary breaking emerging talent, co creating our campaigns. A little tease for spring with Gen Z communities like Sunny's in our partnership with hello Sunshine and Then as I mentioned before, we transformed our internal culture and ultimately the journey to becoming the brand for Gen Z wasn't about chasing a demographic, it was about building a brand that that truly embraces them, their contradictions, their creativity, their courage and inviting them to help shape the brand with us. And I think this is so important because when you anchor your strategy in human insight rather than consumer insight and you build through co creation, you build a brand that doesn't just speak to Gen Z, you build a brand Gen Z wants to help build.
- [34:50]
A
We all want to stay ahead of the digital curve. And iab, the Interactive Advertising Bureau, invites you to do just that at the 2026 IAB Annual Leadership Meeting in Palm Springs on February 1st through 3rd. If you're a qualified consumer, brand or agency leader, you can access free passes and travel vouchers. And for everyone else, you can take $500 off your ticket with code ALL CAPS, ALM CMOPOD26. This is your chance to join a three day gathering of the industry's brightest minds and boldest voices shaping the year ahead. You'll hear agenda setting conversations, candid fireside chats and dynamic breakouts on the topics that matter most, from AI and commerce media to measurement and addressability. This year's lineup includes everyone from Kevin Bacon and Bozema St John to Creator Remy Bader, along with leaders from Forbes, Major League Soccer, General Motors and Meta. Visit iab.comalm to learn more and check out the link in the show notes to Register and receive $500 off your ticket. That's a great story by the way. You obviously have passion for this yourself, personally. You speak about it very naturally. How did you get the entire organization to have that passion for these people and for the mindset shift that you all needed to want the brand and yourselves to take. So because obviously everyone in the company has to believe in it, bring their creativity to it, want to be part of this brand as well. So how did you do that internally? Could you just click down on that a little bit more?
- [36:29]
C
I mean Coach, as a company we have always cared about the consumer, right? It's not new that we put the consumer at the center. It's what we pride ourselves on. It's the legacy from the days of Lou. I think what changed though was this real focus on really immersing ourselves into the lives of our consumer and our average consumer, our core consumer, you know, not the fashion forward, you know, person you see, you know, like the hip Brooklynite carrying the like cool coach vintage bag, not the super like trend setting, you know, consumer who cares about our shows. Like truly really our core consumer. Right? Our core consumer across every market, not just in top cities, but in second and third tier cities. And I think getting everyone out, I mean, of course we couldn't get everyone out, but showing it also through videos and visual and audio and just really listening to that core consumer and how they're changing was a big unlock and change driver. Right. We had to move away from this idea of like the segmentation and the archetype and like the muse to truly understanding that for consumer and just the tensions and the struggles, the reality of everyday lives. I would say that was, you know, one big, you know, unlock. I think that the second one was really building this sort of strategic understanding of what drives growth, meaning that acquisition drives growth. Because we were so overly focused on retaining an existing loyal consumer. I think over time, you know, the brand became like too inward focused and again, we were too focused on protecting and sort of retaining this loyal consumer. We were too worried that, you know, focus, like for example, we were very worried that focusing on Gen Z would alienate our core, you know, when actually it's done absolutely the opposite. Right? It's re energized every demographic. Every demographic for Coach is growing and of course it's, it's led by Gen Z. And that had a huge shift, right, because we had firmly in front. I mean, so much of what we were doing were invested in like loyalty systems and retention and CRM and client telling and really making that shift. And that was hard. I mean, it took, it took a, it took a couple of years of really continuing and we're still not, you know, we're still not there. We're still reinforcing those messages over and over. You know, a lot of change, you know, starts at the top. And you know, it was our leadership team and I give, you know, Todd Khan, our CEO, a lot of credit for, you know, leading us as a team around and rallying us, you know, around shared vision and a shared strategy. And we've built ourselves into a really effective leadership team that feels quite different from from before in terms of the kinds of debates and just the way we're able to sort of challenge each other while staying aligned as a leadership team. I mean, there's so many factors, it's hard to boil it down into a few things, but I do think the ones I highlighted are important.
- [39:42]
A
But Coach Topia, please go there in the context of everything you've been talking about. I watched your TED talk On it. It's excellent. I recommend that to our viewers and our listeners. It's a fabulous TED talk. Only about 11 minutes and you really get to the heart of this. But could you talk about how the idea happened?
- [39:59]
C
Yes. So Coachtopia, the circular sub brand we launched in 2023, was our most radical example of disrupting from within a legacy brand. You know, reimagining what's possible. And it was born out of a really profound desire to build a better future for our industry. It really began during COVID you know, I was at home with my young kids, you know, feeling increasingly anxious about fashion's future. In my own role in contributing to that future, we had already made meaningful progress with sustainability, especially through programs like Coach we loved. But the more we improved the existing system, the clearer it became that incremental change wouldn't be enough. And that if we wanted to truly transform our impact, we couldn't just optimize the current linear system. We needed to reimagine it entirely. And that's why we created Coachtopia as an internal startup. It's a space where we could step outside legacy structures, take uncomfortable risk, rebuild from scratch. So we started by reimagining how we make shifting from the linear take make waste model toward a circular one. That required challenging some of the most deeply held assumptions in our business and in luxury itself. We had to confront our own waste, re engineer our supply chain to be able to utilize that waste at scale, create products from an unpredictable stream of discarded materials. I cannot overstate how challenging this was. That meant designing backwards, seeing constraints as opportunities, and hard redefining the value and the beauty of waste. And then circularity isn't just about how we make, it's also about how we consume. So we grounded Coachtopia in deep human insight. We heard Gen Z articulate the increasing tension they feel between their desire for self expression and their values around sustainability. This is not hypocrisy. It's not hypocrisy that they care about sustainability and shop fast fashion. These are emotional trade offs they're making. I remember one Gen Z telling me he went to a fast fashion retailer, bought all this amazing cute stuff and he said, but walked out with my head held in shame. Right. Increasing recognition of the dissonance of those choices. We also heard that they didn't want brands talking at them. They wanted to help shape the future. They really wanted a seat at the table. And that's why coachtopia was built not for Gen Z, but with Gen Z. Our Global beta community. Incredible community. Climate activists, journalists, storytellers, fashion designers, entrepreneurs, stylists have shaped everything from product principles to storytelling to content or commitments around circularity. And then along the way, we also had to confront one of luxury's most cherished ideals, perfection. The pursuit of perfection leads to enormous amounts of hidden waste materials that are perfectly usable but discarded. Klutopia challenged that mindset both within our own organization, but also externally in culture, through campaigns like A Wasty Holiday, the Wasted Parts Road to Circularity, Most recently impeccable Waste. And then lastly, Coachtopia was never meant to live on its own island. The goal was always to incubate circular ideas that we bring into Coach. We reshape coach and coachtopia continues to move on, pioneering what's next. And with our alter ego collection we're doing that. We've infused Coachtopia's mindset and integrated circular products and processes into our core business, crafting bags not just from existing waste, but designing the system to work to eliminate waste from the outset. And so, for example, our alter ego shoulder bag is designed into and made from the waste generated in the production of our iconic tabby bag. This is what we're scaling now so humbly. It's a very small but hopefully meaningful step towards our long term North Star, which is to design out waste entirely and to pioneer circular fashion systems.
- [43:59]
A
We talk about the seven principles that have driven your journey to be the brand for Gen Z. If there was one big principle that's driven the journey and Coachtopia to the success you've had to date, what would that be?
- [44:09]
C
Overall, our mission is to rethink the linear system and pioneer a circular one. But I would say maybe philosophically, the one most important thing is the courage to take bold but imperfect steps. Because when it comes to sustainability, you never have the full solution. You never have even close to the perfect solution. And in the beginning, we were afraid that talking about progress would shed a light on the all the things we were doing wrong. And that kind of fear can actually paralyze progress. And so it's this courage to be able to take bold but always imperfect steps forward, because the alternative is essentially not to take any steps forward at all, right? And so I would say that is a big learning and it's something that is so relevant even outside sustainability.
- [45:01]
A
Foreign.
- [45:07]
D
Hi everybody, I'm Andrea Sullivan, the CEO of Vive and we have produced the CMO podcast with Jim Stengel for many years and I'm sitting in his seat right now. It's so exciting. I wanted to tell you a little bit about one of our programs. It's called Vive by Vayner. It's a 12 month program that's designed for C suiters and founders. And we want to help people to grow their businesses, also to grow themselves. And so we bring in people from Shark Tank to talk to our founders. But we also focus on wellness. We want to make sure that people are leaning into becoming their best selves, their best and happiest selves. So if you are someone that wants to learn how to grow your business and grow yourself, check us out at Vive Co. That's V Y V E. We'd love to talk to you.
- [46:05]
A
Now we're going to jump to the creative brief. First question I have for you is we've talked about your purpose a lot and it is a brand that encourages self expression, confidence. What's something that you do, June, personally, to express through fashion or creativity, who you are?
- [46:20]
C
Creativity has always been how I recharge. You know, growing up, I was an aspiring artist, for better or worse, did not have the courage to truly go that path. But during COVID I ended up reconnecting with something I hadn't touched in decades, the piano. So I was classically trained growing up. But after almost 15 years of playing, I completely lost the love for it. And honestly, I rejected it. It felt like something from a past life. Then during COVID I couldn't find a music teacher for my son, so I decided to try teaching him myself. So I sat down to show him some basics and suddenly my fingers just remembered. It was surreal. It's crazy. Like within weeks I was playing complex pieces I hadn't touched since I was 20. And I just couldn't believe it. I kept thinking like, where has this been hiding? And it was a powerful reminder for me that we all have creative parts of ourselves that get buried under adulthood. And expression is often about rediscovering them, not reinventing ourselves. And again, I think this is why I connect so deeply to coach's purpose, courage to be real. And rediscovering the piano, which I now play again today, felt like this little mini personal awakening. It was like a reconnection to a version of myself I hadn't even realized I was missing. But yeah, it was pretty wild.
- [47:42]
A
Well, from that story, we should go to what's the first brand you remember making an impact on you?
- [47:46]
C
So the first brand that really stuck with me as a kid was Spam.
- [47:51]
A
Yeah.
- [47:52]
C
So growing up in my Korean immigrant family, Spam was a staple. It was in our everyday meals, and it meant comfort and home. But once I started school, completely different story. As a kid trying to fit into American school culture, opening my lunchbox and seeing a Spam sandwich made me feel exposed and embarrassed. It marked me as different as an outsider. I remember wishing for any other sandwich that just looked more American without realizing that what I was hiding was something culturally meaningful. What's wild is how spam's meaning has changed over time. So it started out as an American military import, became a symbol of hardship in Korea, then a beloved staple woven into the cuisine, then traveled back to the US with me, where suddenly it made me feel like an outsider in the place it originated. And now I love that Spam is having this cultural glow up, you know, it sure is putting it on trendy menus, then the creators are celebrating it, and somehow Spam is cool. So a brand that once embarrassed me in the cafeteria is now a cultural icon. And, you know, it's the perfect reminder that culture shifts, identity evolves. The things that once made us feel other can become symbols of pride and belonging. Brands don't have fixed meanings. People and culture give them meaning. And honestly, Spam taught me that before any brand strategy ever did.
- [49:32]
A
It's a great story. So you lived in Colorado for five years, and that was an unusual location for a top fashion exec, right? So how did you make that work?
- [49:41]
C
So Colorado has been a really special place for my family. You know, for my family, it's been part of our lives for more than 15 years. I mentioned my husband and I met rock climbing. It was our base. That's where we went to climb, where we got married, where we brought our kids to fall in love with the outdoors. But we moved back, so we had a second home there. But we moved back at the start of COVID as a temporary move, and then just fell in love and couldn't move back. But, you know, in terms of making it work, once the world reopened up, I was pretty much constantly on a plane. I would say even since moving back to New York, my travel schedule is a bit unhinged. But, yeah, I mean, it was worth the trade off. And I'm grateful for having had five years to introduce my, you know, my two young kids to just the amazing beauty and passion of the outdoors. I love that my son is as comfortable with a compass, like in the mountains as he is on the New York subway, you know, so that's a pretty special, special experience for them both.
- [50:38]
A
You've had such A rich career path. We've talked about a lot of it in the last hour. Has there been a boss or a mentor along the way that's been especially meaningful for you?
- [50:46]
C
You know, I've been fortunate to have several key mentors throughout my career. But one who feels especially top of mind right now is Lou Frankfurt, our former CEO, the person who grew Coach from a $6 million humble company into a $5 billion global brand. And I had the privilege of working closely with him at a really pivotal moment in my career. It was the start of COVID I was leading our global e commerce businesses, and suddenly the entire world shifted online. Now, Lou came back into the business for a short time as an advisor, and he mentored me during one of the most intense and uncertain chapters the brand, and I'm sure many brands had, had ever faced. So we had already been pushing to accelerate digital, but now we had to compress years of transformation into months. We made bolder decisions, move faster, and operated with a level of conviction I'd never tapped into before. We grew digital net sales by a billion dollars in North America in a single year. I mean, it was unbelievably intense and exhilarating. But I think what made that time so meaningful wasn't just the results. It was what I learned from Lou. He pushed me to think bolder, to stop operating from a mindset of comparison and instead to think like an entrepreneur on a mission to grow the business. And one lesson he taught me that I still carry is this idea of skirmishes, battles, and wars and the importance of knowing the difference. Not everything deserves the same energy or escalation. Some things you let go, some you push. And a precious few are worth fighting with. Everything you have, and it's a really simple idea, but it completely changes how you lead, how you prioritize, how you preserve your own clarity. And looking back, you know, that year shaped me in profound ways. You know, Lou helped me find a bigger voice, bolder instinct, deeper sense of conviction. And working with him was one of the great gifts in my career.
- [52:53]
A
That's a beautiful story. I hope he listens to the show. Who's been the most inspiring person in your life? June?
- [52:58]
C
The most inspiring person in my life is definitely my mom. So I grew up thinking she was this very traditional, risk averse Korean mother, the kind who always worried I wasn't studying enough or eating enough. Meanwhile, she was quietly breaking every rule in the book. She was one of the first generations of female doctors in Korea, immigrated to the US with nothing but a Suitcase, raised three kids and then in retirement casually launched a quilting circle with a few ajumas in our basement that she somehow grew into a first of its kind multimillion dollar Korean community center serving thousands. So the woman I thought who was so conservative, turned out to be this undercover entrepreneur. And honestly, she was slipping the script long before I ever used the phrase. And as an adult, I've come to realize how much I carry her influence in my own leadership, her belief in service, her courage to start from nothing, and her ability to build community wherever she goes. She broke boundaries without ever needing to announce she was breaking them. And that to me is the most inspiring kind of leadership there is.
- [54:20]
A
She also sounds very whole brained. Right and left brain, right?
- [54:25]
C
Absolutely, yeah.
- [54:26]
A
Entrepreneurship, crafts, medicine, science. So it's a beautiful thing to see that as well flourish. And it seems like you have that as well.
- [54:36]
C
I'll tell her to listen to this podcast too.
- [54:39]
A
Super. We'd like that. We like that very much. June, this has been so fun. Congratulations on everything.
- [54:46]
C
Do you would like me to close with a few reflections?
- [54:49]
A
Well, sure, go for it. It's the holidays. What we're reflecting. We're going into the new year, so take us there.
- [54:55]
C
I was thinking about this in advance of our podcast, but if I had to sum up this chapter, I'd say this, that I've learned that real transformation takes courage. It asks you to listen more deeply than feels comfortable, to challenge assumptions you didn't even realize you were holding, and often to move faster than you think you're ready for or capable of. And that's really the journey we're on at Coach. We're staying incredibly close to the consumer, staying ever curious, giving ourselves permission to rethink the rules a bit or a lot maybe. And we're trying to build a brand that reflects where people are going, not just where the industry has been. It's not always linear, it's not always neat, but it's always meaningful. And honestly, it's been one of the most energizing and rewarding chapters of my career.
- [55:55]
A
I'll build on that if I may, for a moment before we break up. When I was promoted to P&G's global marketing officer, I had several months of quiet time to think about it before it was publicly announced. And there was a very famous coach at P and G was an outsider, but he coached a lot of executives and ones that were going through really tough stuff. And I asked him if he would have lunch with me to talk about, think about this new role. And of course at P and G, I had risen through the ranks. I was running line businesses, brands, blah blah, blah. And he just, we sat down at the table, we ordered something and he said to me, here's my advice to you. Be way bolder than you have ever been in your entire life and do things that make you uncomfortable. Boldness is the only way you're going to stand out and do what the company needs you to do at this point in the company's history. And we were not doing well when I was appointed cmo. We were in a funk and I kept those words in my head every day and had a pretty good run at it.
- [56:58]
C
You did? No. That really resonates.
- [57:00]
A
No. But courage, boldness and stepping out of the success model, right?
- [57:07]
C
Absolutely.
- [57:08]
A
And thinking differently. We use those words a lot, but they are powerful and they are real and they are true.
- [57:14]
C
Yes. And that advice applies to brands, to people, to teams, to our own personal journeys. So yeah, could not agree more.
- [57:25]
A
June, thank you. This is a beautiful episode going into the new year, so thank you for all this. Have a great holiday season. Hope you get out in nature a bit. Sounds like you will. And congratulations again to you and your team on a great brand story. I mean, I love researching this. There's so much learning and this has been a fabulous show.
- [57:41]
C
Thank you. Such a pleasure. I really enjoyed our conversation. I hope you have a happy Holidays and hope to see you soon.
- [57:49]
A
That was my conversation with June Silverstein. I'm not going to do three takeaways from this one because June summed it up beautifully. I just want to say happy Holidays to you and your family. Thanks for listening and supporting us throughout this year and tune in on New Year's Eve. We will have an episode to close out the year and it is a doozy. Happy Holidays. Enjoy your family, enjoy your friends. That's it for this week's episode of the CMO Podcast. As always, I would be grateful if you shared our show with your friends along with subscribing and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen. The CMO Podcast is a VIVE original production. The views and opinions expressed by podcast speakers and guests are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of our sponsors or its personnel, nor do our sponsors advocate or endorse any individuals or entities featured on the episodes.