The Brand Builder's Playbook // The Partnership Payoff: Picking the Right Collaborations // With Kristen D’Arcy (True Religion)

Summary

The CMO Podcast – Episode Six: The Brand Builder’s Playbook

The Partnership Payoff: Picking the Right Collaborations

Guest: Kristen D’Arcy (CMO, True Religion)
Date: November 21, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of The CMO Podcast dives deep into the strategic art and science of partnerships and collaborations from the CMO perspective. Jim Stengel, joined by co-hosts Ryan Barker and Lindsey Waking, explores how brands can leverage authentic collaborations to drive growth, cultural relevance, and innovation. The highlight is an in-depth conversation with Kristen D’Arcy, CMO of True Religion, who shares actionable insights into how her team operationalizes cultural collaborations—and how “math and magic” drive their playbook.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kicking Off: The Power of Partnership-Driven Brands

• LEGO as a Case Study ([00:27-02:15])

  • Hosts discuss LEGO’s masterful collaborations (Star Wars, Harry Potter, Jurassic World) as benchmarks for deep, integrated partnerships.
  • Memorable quote:
    • Jim Stengel: “I don't know if there's a brand in the world right now who collaborates as well as LEGO... it’s so integrated into their business model.” [01:15]

• Flamin’ Hot Cheetos and Megan Thee Stallion ([02:15-04:09])

  • Lindsey recalls work with Frito Lay, Megan Thee Stallion, and the importance of tapping real subcultural energy (“baddie culture”) for partnership relevancy.
  • Lindsey Waking: “...to do a song called Flamin’ Hotties... so perfectly captured the culture and the language and the aesthetic.” [03:47]

• Formula One & Netflix Partnership ([04:59-06:00])

  • Ryan emphasizes transformative results when F1 partnered with Netflix, doubling fanbase and increasing brand equity by 30 points.

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2. How to Evaluate Partnerships

• Strategic Criteria ([06:17-11:19])

  • Partnerships must align to clearly identified brand challenges: differentiation, relevance, awareness.
  • Ryan Barker: “If you know what is at the core of your essence, you help find brands that address perceptual weaknesses while reinforcing strengths.” [06:21]

• Deep Cultural Integration ([07:29])

  • Lindsey urges listeners to focus on how brands operationalize “cultural relevance.”
  • Lindsey: "How do they do that internally? How do they operationalize this thing that can feel magic and ephemeral and hard to operationalize?" [07:34]

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3. True Religion’s Collaboration Model—Kristen D’Arcy Interview

• Momentum Drivers ([08:14-09:34])

  • CEO’s return in 2019 refocused brand on its core consumer and original product heritage.
  • Marketing leans heavily into culture: sports, music, and celebrity influence.

• Three Pillars of Partnership ([09:46-11:19])

  • 1. Talent Partnerships (e.g., Megan Thee Stallion campaigns; ongoing collaboration)
  • 2. Influencer Partnerships ("Team True"—100+ athletes, stylists, musicians as “always-on army”)
  • 3. Brand-to-Brand Collaborations (e.g., Ford, Cookies, Belladonna for Women)

• Evaluating Partners: Math & Magic ([11:26-12:59])

  • Mathematics: Audience size, engagement, overlap with business objectives, timing (e.g., albums/tours).
  • Magic: Intuitive cultural fit, creative alignment, potential for surprise & delight.
  • Kristen D’Arcy: “It's really a little bit of math and magic... the objective of the partnership— is it scale... or to attract a new audience?” [11:28]

• Process for Attribution and Iteration ([13:35-15:41])

  • Annually reviewing what worked, compounding key cultural moments, and innovating for core business needs (e.g., women’s business growth via targeted collabs).

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4. Successes, Surprises & Lessons from Past Partnerships

• Not Every Partnership Is a Hit ([15:41-17:08])
  • Some collabs fall flat; others (Jada Cheeves for "Female Baddie" collection) sell out inventory in 24 hours.
  • Kristen: “We've seen it go both ways, where sometimes things don't quite take off and then other times it's just this wow moment because it just hits at the right time at the right place.” [16:30]

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5. Building a Collaborative Team Culture

• Diverse Talent & ‘Tea Time’ Rituals ([17:30-20:49])

  • Team includes both veterans and outsiders (music industry, no corporate marketing background)—all “tapped into culture.”
  • Weekly “tea” meetings to collectively surface trends, new ideas, and inform team-wide brainstorming.
  • Kristen: “What I love about that meeting is... nobody is watching the same thing, nobody is reading the same thing... what they learn in that meeting serves as the framework for incredible brainstorming.” [18:53]

• Structured Brainstorming & Strategic Focus ([19:50])

  • Diverse teams generate long lists of potential partners, winnowed against business objectives and cultural fit.

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6. Depth of Collaboration: Surface vs. Experiential

• Building Authenticity in Collabs ([21:12-23:22])

  • Examples of successful “vibe-meld”—e.g., Skims x Roberto Cavalli.
  • “Taking the best from both brands/personas; the product has to feel right for both.”

• The Product as Proof ([21:12])

  • Key: Co-create products where the blending of both brands is "apparent" and generates fan excitement.

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7. Measurement: Sales and Brand Equity

• Short- and Long-term Strategic Impact ([23:48-26:24])

  • Metrics: Immediate sell-through, new customer acquisition, repeat behavior, CAC to LTV ratio, email/SMS/loyalty engagement.
  • Kristen: “All of them are to do both of those things: to drive a sale... but also to build that long term equity.” [23:52]

• Paid Media vs. Partnership Distribution ([26:39])

  • Kristen: “You can’t have one without the other... when you partner with these celebrities, you also get distribution through their channels... They go hand in hand.” [27:02]

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8. Ford x True Religion: An Unexpected Collaboration

• Case Study & Cultural Proof ([27:42-30:30])
  • Origin: Anniv. of Mustang, “two American brands,” cultural overlap.
  • Launch at “Buddha Fest” during Coachella—line out the door for photo ops with branded Mustang.
  • Kristen: “...there was a line of at least 100 people... just to get their photos taken in front of this car... the product sell through... was definitely a hit for us.” [29:26]

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9. Fundamental Advice for Marketers

• “Know Your Customer” ([30:44-31:54])
  • Kristen: “Let alone this topic, know your customer... it makes everything easier. Picking the right celebrity face, picking the right B2B collab partner... it all starts from understanding your customer.” [30:44/31:48]
• Partnerships serve the present and the future ([32:00])
  • The right collab can re-engage loyalists and pull in new audiences.

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10. Panel Reflection & Takeaways

• Building Culturally Plugged-In Teams ([34:36-39:37])

  • Lindsey: “Hiring people who don't have any corporate background but just get culture or pulling talent from music industry.” [34:58]
  • On starting meetings with “the tea.” (culture check)
  • Lindsey on “vibe coding” and taste: “Most of how we're making decisions, especially in very aesthetically driven worlds like fashion and music, is just based on a vibe... you have to have a team with great taste to make work in a very vibe forward world.” [38:55]

• Process & Authenticity

  • Ryan: “A lot of partnerships go bad, and consumers are smart, they call BS on it. It’s not authentic. That coupled with math and magic—she had a process.” [37:28]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Partnership Selection:
  Kristen D’Arcy: “It’s really a little bit of math and magic.” ([11:26])

• On the Importance of Culture:
  Lindsey Waking: “Go inside the culture. She said, know your audience, and I want to take it a step further... Get in there. Go to a Megan Thee Stallion concert... Love the things they love.” ([40:17])

• On Collaboration Ritual:
  Kristen D’Arcy: “We start every weekly marketing meeting with tea. And the tea is about what they’re seeing in the industry.” ([18:35])

• On Team Design:
  Kristen D’Arcy: “It’s a combination of these incredible historians and... people... who just have such sort of diverse backgrounds. But... they are all very, very well connected to culture.” ([17:33])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• LEGO as Model Collaborator: 00:27 – 02:15
• Cultural Partnership (Megan Thee Stallion/Flamin’ Hot): 02:15 – 04:09
• Formula One x Netflix: 04:59 – 06:00
• Kristen D’Arcy on drivers of True Religion's momentum: 08:06 – 09:34
• Three-Tier Partnership Framework: 09:46 – 11:19
• Math & Magic—How True Religion Picks Partners: 11:26 – 12:59
• Biggest Partnership Wins/Fails: 15:41 – 17:08
• Building Collaborative Team & Rituals: 17:30 – 20:49
• How to Blend Two Brands Authentically: 21:12 – 23:22
• Measuring Sales vs. Equity: 23:48 – 26:24
• Ford x True Religion Case Study: 27:42 – 30:30
• Kristen’s Ultimate Advice – Know Your Customer: 30:44 – 31:54
• Reflection & Playbook Takeaways: 34:36 – 41:18

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Playbook Takeaways

1. Start with Deep Audience Understanding

   • “Know your customer”—ground every collab decision in rich, real-time audience insight.

2. Blend Math and Magic

   • Assess both quantitative (reach, relevance, sales potential) and qualitative (cultural, aesthetic, intuitive fit) criteria.

3. Build Diverse, Culturally Plugged-In Teams

   • Prioritize talent who are immersed in culture, even if they aren’t from traditional marketing backgrounds.

4. Make Team Rituals Around Cultural Curiosity

   • Regular “tea time”–style meetings invite personal perspective and fuel creative, authentic collaborations.

5. Operationalize for Both Quick Hits and Long-Term Equity

   • Structure partnerships to deliver immediate financial results AND build long-term brand resonance.

6. Authenticity Above All

   • Only pursue partnerships that ring true to your audience’s expectations and your brand’s purpose.

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For Marketers & Brand Leaders

• Go deep—not wide—on culture. Attend events, frequent the same spaces as your target audience, immerse yourself.
• Audit and assess your brand’s needs and cultural fit before seeking a partner.
• Activate the partnership so it’s more than logos—a true experience or product.
• Continue to fine-tune through data, customer behavior, and cultural signals.

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Next Episode Tease: The series continues with “Smart Spending and Mastering the Media Mix.”

[This summary captures rich dialogue, actionable insights, and direct takes in the authentic voice and language of the episode’s hosts and guest.]

Transcript

[A]

Models, influencers, celebrities. There's the what component and then there's the how.

[B]

Welcome to the Brand Builders Playbook, the show for modern marketers who are done with guesswork and ready to implement what actually works. Well, hello everyone. Welcome to episode six of the Brand Builders Playbook. We're having a lot of fun with this series. This is Jim Stengel.

[C]

I'm Ryan Barker.

[D]

And I'm Lindsey Waking.

[B]

Okay, so last week we had an intense discussion about brand and performance marketing. Right. This is an evergreen topic. I hope someday it goes away because they should be one and the same as Ryan is a firm advocate in. But this week's topic, I think is a perfect follow up to brand and performance marketing because we're going to talk to a guest who believes in both and they can happen at the same time. We're going to talk a lot about collaborations and partnerships with this guest. But before we do that, I'd like to, you know, kind of return to the little tradition we have on this show where we talk about the brand's playbook this week that is interesting for us, that we're paying a lot of attention to, that's relevant to the topic of the show. So I'm going to go first on this one and then I'll turn it over to Lindsay and Ryan. But this is really topical for me because earlier this summer I went to Portland with my family and just went to the most extraordinary experience and that was the LEGO Jurassic World, Rebirth, Brickman partnership. It just blew my mind. It was so fantastic, so interactive. You know, you could participate, you can build things, you could do videos, you can make videos. And it's like the fourth Jurassic park movie they've been a part of. I don't know if there's a brand in the world right now who collaborates as well as lego. Think about Star Wars, Harry Potter, Jurassic World, Rebirth. And it's, you know, it's not just one thing. It's like video games, it's museum exhibits, it's campaigns, it's special collections. So I think there is so much to learn by how LEGO thinks about partnerships and collaborations. We're about to talk about True Religion, which is also doing a great job. But the scale of what LEGO does I think is mind boggling and the fact it's so integrated into their business model. So I think it's endless learning. Maybe we should get them on the show later, you two, and talk about that.

[D]

Yeah, I mean, LEGO is incredible. I just saw their botanical series for the first time and like all of my adult friends are just going nuts for it. You're so right there. I feel like they're the masters, you know. Later we're going to talk about True Religion and Megan the Stallion. But, but I'm always very interested in like how to do really deep cultural partnerships. I think a lot of the risk you run with partnerships often is like just like slapping an influencer on it or slapping a celebrity and then those things, you know, maybe get you awareness. But it doesn't feel deeply integrated into the, into the culture of the audience. And we were doing some work for Frito Lay a few years ago and they hired us to study the subcultures that are obsessed with Flamin Hot Cheetos. So not just the customer, but what are like the cultures and the subcultures that in their own right have their own culture that are just really love, really love the product. And that led us deep into the world of like, I kind of call it like Southern hip hop and trap, like female Southern hip hop and trap. So it's like Megan Thee Stallion City girls, that whole world of honestly like baddie subculture, which we're going to talk about a lot more with True Religion because I feel like they're doing a brilliant job of tapping into bad bitch culture. But yeah, we ended up going very deep on, you know, what is kind of the worldview underlying that subculture and then what are all of the aesthetics and the signals and. And from that work, they ended up partnering with Megan Thee Stallion to create a new song called Flamin Hotties that like paid homage to the obsession that this subculture had with Flamin Hot. And I thought it was perfect because obviously Megan Stallion, a big name and maybe you would have come up with her regardless just because of her popularity. But I think to like do a song called Flamin Hotties, it just so perfectly captured the culture and the language and the aesthetic. I thought that was brilliant.

[B]

You and I have talked about this before. Didn't they even integrate the subculture insights into product development?

[D]

Yeah, yeah. So they are doing that subculture work as part of their innovation process. So how can you pull collaborations with subcultures so deep into the, you know, the innovation process that the marketing kind of writes itself as you develop the product?

[B]

So are you a flaming person?

[D]

Yeah, I love my mouth to burn.

[B]

My son in law is too. He, he has, I don't know, 40 or 50 hot sauces in the refrigerator. Mind boggling. It is mind boggling. Okay, Ryan, what about you? What Are you looking at this week?

[C]

Before I get, I have to comment on the Legos. We're a big Lego family. I love Legos. I wish they would have a Dr. Scholl's collaboration so that when parents have to clean them up at night that your feet wouldn't feel so bad. Other than that, I am deeply in love with Legos.

[B]

They do that, Ryan. They're very customer centric. Probably listening to this, you may see that in the next year.

[C]

I would love it. So blockbuster movies. I saw Formula one and then it got me thinking again. We went into the Barra database and when, when Formula One and Netflix got together in 2019, they launched their, their series. Till today, the brand has more than doubled its fan base, especially in the US let alone globally. And then as we look at the, the equity, this was a brand that was very niche. More the affluent youth wasn't watching it. It wasn't a cool brand. And then we look at the data and the brand has grown overall equity by 30 points from cultural shift. That's not 30 points growing in sports. That's 30 points growth across all brands, which is just absolutely amazing. And then not stopping there. And now doing the Brad Pitt formula movie, which was good by the way. It just keeps growing. It keeps growing. So they're, they're continuing to nurture that relationship using entertainment. And now all of these drivers, they're, they're celebrities, they're rock stars.

[B]

Now Ryan, let's, let's get into the process of collaboration and partnerships a little bit more deeply. I know you're looking at this with your database and you help brands and companies figure out which partnerships will make sense to grow both brands equity and hopefully their sales as well. So can you tell us a little bit about what you've learned?

[C]

So I think it starts with brands need to understand what is their challenge. Are they looking for differentiation? Do they need to become more culturally relevant? Is it an awareness issue? And you're looking to piggyback from there. Then it's all about positioning. If you know what is in the core of your essence, you help find brands that address perceptual weaknesses while reinforcing strengths. You want to make sure that those brands you partner with will bring the differentiation that you need. But it has to be authentic and therefore not difference for the different stake. It still has to have the core of your essence. Data can help you with that.

[B]

Lindsey, your reaction to that?

[D]

Yeah, I mean I think, I think Ryan hit it and I think that, you know, I want to put like an exclamation point on the point he talked about, like, relevance. You know, I think a lot of times we get really blind when we chase partnerships and really not thinking about, like, what is. What is relevant and what helps us experience the essence of the brand in, like, a new way or through a new culture or through a new aesthetic or to a new audience. And I think that's where you see partnerships that really, really feel like magic.

[B]

So we're about to bring True Religion into the show in a segment, but what's one thing you want our. Our audience to be super tuned to and pay attention to in this discussion we're about to have?

[D]

I think, for me, like, I mean, just as an observer, like, True Religion is killing it in the culture game. And I think, tuning into, how do they do that internally? How do they operationalize this thing that can feel magic and ephemeral and hard to operationalize, which is cultural relevance? I feel like that's what I'm. That's what I'm most looking forward to.

[B]

Well, this week, please welcome to our virtual studio Kristen Darcy, the CMO of True Religion and this brand. Kristen is having a moment, so congratulations on everything you're doing at your company, and. And thank you for joining us.

[A]

Absolutely. Thanks, Jim. Happy to be here.

[B]

Now, I want to start with a big mega question. What do you feel is the biggest, biggest driver behind this momentum on True Religion?

[A]

It's a good question, and I don't think it's any one thing. It feels like lightning in a bottle, that's for sure. First and foremost, we have an incredible CEO who came back to the brand in 2019, and. And he was laser focused on making sure we understood our consumer. That was years before I joined. He really revamped the product. So when he came back, the logos and everything that we were really known for, the big horseshoe, the Buddha, had been removed from the product. He made sure that that was put back on. The product is incredibly recognizable. It's fashion forward. There's some heritage pieces, of course, but the product is so fabulous. And I think then you enter this marketing, and my team is also laser focused on leaning into culture, in particular sports and music, which we know our customer loves, and sort of looks to celebrities in both of those arenas for, you know, fashion and styling advice and tips and so forth. And so I think it's a conglomeration of all of those things that's really helped drive a lot of the growth that we've seen over the last couple of years.

[B]

So, of course, Our topic today is collaborations and partnerships. So what's another big question before we start clicking down? What's been the role of partnerships and collaborations in your growth model, your playbook?

[A]

Yeah, we look at them in a couple of different ways. So partnerships might be with a celebrity. I could use Megan Thee Stallion as an example of that. She was the face of our holiday campaign last year. She was so happy with the outcome of the campaign, as were we from a sales perspective, that that partnership with the talent continued into this year. We dressed her head to toe on a Coachella stage. True Religion. You know, I just talked about the product, but True Religion and the logos front and center, which was incredible. And then we will continue that partnership. I'm going to keep it vague as we go into 2026. So talent partnerships would be one influencer. Partnerships would be another way that we look at that, and that would be Team True. So Team True right now is made up of just over 100 men, women, nil athletes, professional athletes, stylists, musicians, et cetera. I would say those faces range from 50,000 followers to 5 million. And they act as an always on army of, you know, fashion influencers. So that's another way we look at partnerships. And then the third would be collabs. So this year we launched a collab with Ford, followed by Cookies. In June, we launched Belladonna for Women. And so, you know, the brand to brand collabs would be another way that we look at partnerships. So those are the three different tiers.

[B]

That's a huge diversity of collaborators and partners. What's your top criteria when you're thinking about going forward with a partner?

[A]

It's really a little bit of math and magic. So top criteria on the math side is number of followers, engaged audiences, where are their audiences coming from? And does that map map back to where our sales come from or the biggest opportunities across the country where we want to drive more sales? It's what is in the queue. Are they. If they're a musician, are they going on tour, are they dropping a new album? What was so interesting about Megan is, you know, we really picked her at the right time. When we looked at the math of it, you know, across all the metrics I just mentioned solid, solid, solid. She did a Bud Light commercial right before our campaign launched with her, and that was to kick off the NFL season last year. She was a host of the VMAs, she had a Netflix documentary coming out. She was performing at Coachella. So check, check, check. But then on the other side, there Definitely is magic. Does this person or this brand, does that feel like something our customer would expect, would want? What is the objective of the partnership? Is it scale that would be the example of Ford, or is it to try to attract a new audience? That was the objective of the collab that we did with Belladonna earlier this week. So math and magic and I think also then making sure on our side that we're very, very clear what does success look like from the jump?

[B]

Math is a four letter word and Ryan is a four letter word. So Ryan.

[C]

So I love the math and magic. I woke up this morning, took a look in the Barrett data. The data is doing the talking for the true religion brand among Gen Z. Just in the last two and a half years, the amount of cultural relevance that grew was 23%. The perceived differentiation in the marketplace among that group, 31%. So the data is definitely doing the talking. And so it's interesting to see whether it's a long term executive perspective or short term. How do you attribute and realize I need to do more of this one and less of that one. What's that process, Kristen?

[A]

You know, some of it. I mean the headline actually goes back to what I mentioned earlier about how we pick the math and the magic. The math is we look at last year's calendar from a merch planning and marketing perspective and there are certain moments we know we need to anniversary. Then there are other moments that we've created. When I joined the brand over two years ago, it was, I think it was June or July and there was no big holiday campaign planned. And you know, I've been in retail a long time. Anyone who's in retail knows you need that incredible holiday campaign in order to get enough wind through your sales to drive growth for the rest of the year. And so that was an example of it was net new. You know, we inserted that in because it's a playbook that I've learned and I've executed before. And you know, and then as we moved into that holiday season, we saw traffic up to the website, over 50%. Traffic up to our own stores across the US up 20%. Sales were up 20, 30% throughout that season. So that's an example of something again net new. But what we try to look at is where do we need to comp some of these moments, you know, and then what is the broader business objective? When I joined, the women's penetration of the business was probably sub 40%. We know that there's a huge opportunity to grow and we have Been growing the women's side of the business. So there too objective grow women's net new. How do we insert the right women's support, whether it be a Megan Thee stallion and Anita, the global Brazilian pop superstar. We partnered with her in February of this year to launch the own youn True campaign or a brand new again net new women's collab with Belladonna. So it's having a very keen understanding of what we're trying to do with the business and then using marketing to actually help pull all the levers to drive growth.

[C]

Very interesting. Now, for future viewers and brand builders out there, have you had experiences in partnerships that have gone bad? Anything you could share with listeners on what you've learned from that and how do you course correct?

[A]

You know, I think there are some that perhaps didn't perform as well as we thought. But then from the macro perspective, this brand has been growing double digits. It's interesting you talked about the data and obviously we're relevant to our customer. I also look at the sales and so I don't think there's been a huge mishap per se, but there's definitely some where we thought there would have. We would have seen more brand heat. On the flip side, there's some that just take off in a way that we could have never imagined. We partnered with an influencer two years ago, Jada Cheeves, for our female baddie collection. And within the first 24 hours, we had sold through 30% of the inventory. She dropped a hidden lady link to her audience that was incredibly engaged. We put our marketing muscle behind it and all of a sudden we're looking at the numbers and you can't even plan for that. Of course, we did order more, but we've seen it go both ways, where sometimes things don't quite take off and then other times it's just this wow moment because it just hits at the right time at the right place.

[C]

Makes a lot of sense.

[B]

Kristen, you have a culture that obviously is good at collaboration and good at partnerships. So could you speak a bit about how do you build the culture to do this? Well, how do you design for it in terms of your organizational design? How do you hire for it? So could you give us a little bit of a look behind the curtain on what capability you built to do this so well?

[A]

I mean, I can't share all of our secrets, but sure you can. It's a great question. I think our team, the marketing team, is incredibly diverse. You know, there are people that have never worked in sort of a formal, formal corporate marketing organization before we have someone who joined us from the music industry and is so incredibly tapped into what is, you know, just coming up. She's always bringing new and incredible ideas. And then there's other people on the team that have been here, let's say, for years and years, but know the brand so well. And it's just this, they have the touch. They know by, you know, looking at another brand or looking at different celebrity opportunities. That goes back to the magic part, you know, there's. They. They just know. And so I think it's a combination of these incredible historians and then bringing in people, as I mentioned, who just have such sort of diverse backgrounds. But then on the other hand, the common thread is they are all very, very well connected to culture. They love music, they love sports. We start every weekly marketing meeting with tea. And the tea is about what they're seeing in the industry. So what partnerships are happening, who's fronting different brands, what's a campaign that they like, you know, and the team now is over 50 people. And what I love about that meeting is nobody is, you know, they're all tapped in, but nobody is watching the same thing, nobody's reading the same thing. And what I, and I think they learn in that meeting serves as the framework for incredible brainstorming. Then go forward. And that's the other piece is, you know, we have a really an incredible brand right now and a great business. And so from a recruiting perspective, that kind of opens the door to so many different types of talent. But then when they're in here, that brainstorming cross functionally and among the marketing team is critical because good ideas can't just come from one place or one person. And so we've been focused on our collab calendar for next year over the last couple of weeks. And I decided to bring together a team of about 10 different people in order to just brainstorm. And so we came up with a list of 50 different brands, 50 different people we wanted to work with. The 10 of us all went through one by one by one, went to their website, went to their Instagram, went to their tiktoks and really tried to decide where do we wanna lean in based on our business objectives for next year. So it took this small but very diverse and mighty team. We came up with it. I presented it yesterday to our CEO and there's some great ideas in there that are both niche, like we talked about earlier, and mass. And I think not only will drive new customer acquisition, which we've been seeing almost 100% new customers coming into the brand over the last year. But I think it will also continue to reignite that core customer that's been with us over the last couple of years.

[C]

Well, with all these tee times, we've seen a lot of partnerships where folks just think putting two brands together through osmosis, the magic gets released. Then you have an extreme where there's a co collaboration on actual functional or experiential integration. More expensive, more difficult. How do you think about the balance between those and are any trends shaping that you're seeing in part of your tee time?

[A]

The one that we talked about recently that we loved was Skims and Roberto Cavalli, which I've heard some of those key pieces have sold out. And it felt like such a perfect blend of two, you know, sort of similar brands. There's also a bit of a throwback there, which is a big trend. Right? Y2K, of course, is, is everywhere. Not only in fashion, but in music and so forth. And so we loved that one. The experiential piece, I think, came to life through an incredible influencer play within that collab. And I think, you know, for us, when we're looking at the right collab partners, similarly, it needs to be does this brand and their target audience feel like us? Then you start to do the, you know, how big are they from a business perspective? Are they additive, sort of to us, do they have broader reach? Do they have a totally different customer? And then how do we create a product? And that's really the most important thing that feels like both brands can, you know, come together in the most authentic way. And so when our incredible product design team, you know, does these designs and they work in tandem with another brand or with a celeb and it's really about how do you take kind of the very best, the things that each brand or person are so well known for, and bring them together? We have an incredible collab. Unfortunately I can't reveal yet who it's with, but that collab is coming out in November and the brand cues from us and from this collab partner are just so apparent. The melding together is awesome. We will be in conversations with them about experiential, how do we bring this to life even beyond the product in real life? And I think that's where a lot of the magic comes. So yes, tea time. We're watching this. We're always talking about what we're seeing out there that's interesting. And then we try to create that Here on our own as well, with.

[C]

Our partners engineering the best of both brands.

[B]

I have to ask a measurement question. Obviously you can measure the short term impact of all of this, right? You can look at your sales, if it's a special collection, whatever it might be, you can sort of see what happens in the stores. When you think about the long term impact on your brand equity and obviously it has grown, as Ryan talked about a few minutes ago. How do you think about that? Is it, are you measuring it? Is it a way to measure it? Do you have a point of view on that part of it?

[A]

I go back to the objective that we talked about, right. And really making sure that upfront it's understanding what is the purpose of this collab and to be honest, all of them are to do both of those things to drive a sale, to help continue to grow this brand from a sales perspective in that moment. But every single one of them also is to build that long term equity. And when we look at measurement around that, we look at ltv, so, so our CAC to LTV ratio is incredibly healthy. We look at, as I mentioned, all the new customers coming into the brand. We look at how much they're spending in year one with us, we look at what they're spending beyond the purchase, let's say, of a collab product. We personalize the experience through marketing for them. So if they come in with a slightly higher priced collaboration, they're not immediately thrown into a promo email cadence, for example. We're trying to expose the broader world of the brand to them. So there's a lot of personalization that goes into that. But it's really around the behavior of the customer. That's how we're measuring the success. And again, I'm excited because I do see it, I see it doing both of those things. I see it driving the immediate sale. You know, we launched Belladonna that collab on. We pre launched it to our loyalty members on Monday for exclusive early 24 hour access. Then we launched it more broadly on Tuesday. You know, the top five products for, you know, for women's that have been sold online this week have all been Belladonna. That's incredible. So check it did what it was supposed to do and hopefully will continue to. From a sales perspective, it's selling out on Belladonna's site already, which is amazing. But the equity play and the long term customer impact will continue to measure. But that's really the goal. They have much more of a Hispanic consumer. We know that's a Big area of opportunity for us. It's why we leaned in to Anita earlier in the year. And so now to follow that customer who's come in as a result of this Belladonna collab. And again we look at their ltv, see how many times are they coming back. How can we get them to engage with the brand in other ways? Sign up for email, sms, the loyalty program, et cetera. That's, that's really the objective of all of these.

[C]

Really interesting. You know, since you brought up some financial terms, if we were to talk about return on marketing investment and not revealing any numbers, do you believe or have you experienced that the right partner could be as effective as mainstream media or TV channel or social media?

[A]

It's interesting. They go hand in hand. You can't have, in my experience here, you can't have one without the other. The what is the campaign? The what is, you know, whether it's, I'm looking at our campaign imagery in my office here, whether it's models, influencers, celebrities, there's the what component and then there's the how. And the how is the media so that people see this incredible campaign person, whatever it might be. And as part of that, when you partner with these celebrities, you also get distribution through their channels. Right. So I think Megan Thee stallion, who knows now, but at the time we were looking at her, I think she had, you know, 30 million followers on Instagram. When you looked at Anita across all of her different platforms, she had over a hundred million plus. Again, this is across all channels. So then they obviously become a distribution channel as well. So I really, I think they go hand in hand.

[B]

A lot of these partners I would expect. Ford is not one I would expect. And that's an interesting one. Right, so tell us a little bit of the origin story of that one before we wrap up.

[A]

Yeah. You know, we did something similar last year where we plotted out what are the different B2B collab partners. There's always very, very intensive conversations internally around rationale goes back to the objective, what do we want to do? And when we looked at the calendar for this year, we had some smaller niche collabs. So that's cookies on the men's side in June, belladonna on the female side in July. And we thought, what about something slightly more massive? You know, we've partnered with Playboy in the past. That feels more mass. And then as we narrowed it down, why Ford? Well, we're both American based brands. We knew it was the Mustang's anniversary this year. We thought that could be really interesting from a cultural relevancy perspective. The Ford team seemed like they would be great partners. They absolutely are, by the way. Shout out to them. And what was so interesting is we launched the collab right around Coachella this spring. We had some of the collab product pieces there with us. We created a year or two of Budapest. So Buddha Fest is True Religion's adjacent takeover, if you will, happening over Coachella weekend. And we had not only we had influencers there, yg, the west coast rapper was a host. He brought his team through which was incredible. We had thousands of people come through this activation over the Coachella weekend. 1 But what I thought was so phenomenal is we had the collab product there and then we actually had a branded Mustang co branded I should say. So you had the True Religion logo all over it. Obviously the Ford logo, Mustang logo. It was a bright red car and we used it there as a photo op or an Instagrammable moment. And when I showed up to this event, there was a line of at least 100 people. It was very hot. It's in the desert obviously, but there was a line of 100 people to get their photos taken in front of this car. So I thought, wow, that's really interesting. Then you look at the sell through of the collection for both women and men's also really solid, exceeding our expectations. So it might have seemed like a not so expected partnership. But from a relevancy perspective, case in point, the 100 plus people standing in a line to take a picture with this brand and car. And then also the sell through on the product. It was definitely a hit for us.

[B]

So we're going to wrap up. We want one piece of advice from you to our listeners and our audience at large if they'd like to build the kind of system you have on partnerships and collaborations. What's one mega piece of advice from you?

[A]

That is a great question, I would say, and this is true of almost anything in marketing, let alone this topic. Know your customer.

[B]

It's a fundamental. All organizations spend time on that, I'll put it that way.

[A]

Yeah, I, I, I don't know where you would start if you didn't.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You would be shooting in the dark. As I mentioned, I was really lucky that when Michael Buckley, our CEO, came back to the brand in 2019, he did a deep dive consumer research study because he thought, and he was right, the customer for the brand years ago, probably the true religion that we would have remembered is totally different now. And he's very supportive of Ongoing research, which we do quite often to make sure that we're always dialed in and it makes everything easier. Picking the right celebrity face, picking the right B2B collab partner, the kinds of campaigns and storytelling who we put in in this army of Team Tru that we're trying to grow. It all starts from understanding your customer.

[C]

So, Kristen, is the partnership for the customer of today or for the acquisition of new customers for tomorrow?

[A]

It really is both. It really is both. The collab that we have launching in November, I think hopefully people will just go crazy when they see this. And it's a. Oh, that makes sense. Both for new customers as well as those that have been with the brand for a while. And it's interesting, right, because we always. We have core fits that we've had for years and years and years in our denim. Those core fits are for both women and for men. But then when you partner on a collab, for example, with another brand, that's where you can get really fun and you can play with the design and the co branding comes to life there. So again, if you knew us, you might know that you love a Ricky fit. But now you see the Ricky again with this incredible design brought to life by these two great teams. If you didn't know that we have a Ricky, we'll explain it to you if you're a brand new customer. But you could be coming into the brand because you just love the other brand that we're collabing with. So it's 100% both of those things.

[C]

Love it.

[B]

So we're about to bring Lindsay back into the conversation. And so I want you, if she's not in the brand right now, Kristen, she's a young, very hip, very fun woman who's very experimental, likes to try new things. What do you think we should outfit her in?

[A]

That's a great question. We have a campaign coming up that's tied to a new product collection. This is coming out in October and it is an evolution of the baddie. Baddie is a cool thing in culture for females and the collection is bold. It's fun. It's meant for you to stand out, to feel confident. There's a lot of leopard in there. There's a lot of crystals in there. Perfect. And I think she'd love it. So we'll have to send some her way.

[B]

We know what our Christmas present is for.

[C]

There we go.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And I'm sure if you want to send some, she would love it. She'd be a great brand ambassador by the Way.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

Anyway, Ryan, anything else?

[C]

No, this is great. Thank you so much, Kristen. Really appreciate it.

[B]

Yeah, so good. You're an amazing cmo, by the way. Thank you for sharing your insights.

[A]

That really means a lot coming from you. Who's the goat? So thank you very much. I appreciate it.

[B]

Wow, that was a great conversation with Kristen Lindsey. Come on back into our discussion here and let's start with you, Lindsay. You've been listening to this, reflecting on it. What was your take on what we just heard, which I thought was an amazing case study, if you will.

[D]

Yeah, what a ride. I mean, we were talking about baddie subculture earlier. Like, I feel like they have nailed how to tap into baddie subculture. And it's such a real. Like, we've done some research on, like, what I call bad subculture. And like, I think some of the things they're doing so brilliantly is there are different expressions of it. Like you have, like, Chicano fatty subculture, which they're really hitting with some of their newer partnerships. And I also just really love. You know, she talked about a couple things and how they really, like, build a team around this that I just, I thought were so refreshing. Like, she talked about, like, hiring people who don't have any corporate background. Maybe they've never worked in a corporate job, but they just get culture or pulling talent from things like the music industry. Like, I think all these other industries, music, fashion, you know, the arts. Often people who work in those industries have just more of a natural plugged in ness than people who have been in corporate America for 10 to 15 years. And so it seems like she's really open to kind of unconventional hiring in order to build a team that. That feels plugged into culture and then baking that into even like their rituals. Like, I love the. The ritual of starting every meeting with, you know, the tea of what you've seen.

[B]

And when we asked her for one piece of advice, I mean, this is something that plays to you and your company's reason for being. She just said, know your customer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So could you go there a little bit with us, Lindsay? I mean, we got her to expand on a little bit in the dialogue, but you said, how do you do anything without that?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So.

[B]

And I know you help companies do that. Could you expand a little bit on that advice for our audience about how to do that better?

[D]

Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things that feels so fundamental. You're almost like leaves you wanting more, you know, something more secret or more specific. But, you know, I think what. One of the things I noticed just in how she talks about how they know their audience is they do keep that cultural dimension so close to the work. I think a lot of major companies, even companies who do a lot of marketing research or consumer research and start with consumer research, the problem is a lot of times that research doesn't have belladonna in it. You know, it doesn't have Megan Thee Stallion. It doesn't have the attitude and the tone and the, you know, the esthetic. You look at True Religion stuff, and it looks like the people. And a lot of. I think a lot of the way we do research and a lot of the ways we begin with trying to know the customer often start from such a sanitized corporate place. It misses a lot of the. The gems that clearly True Religion's been able to plug into. So I think, like, how you go about knowing your customer matters a lot.

[B]

Ryan, anything to add to what Lindsey's sharing? Retrospect.

[C]

So she said, know your customer. I asked about both today and tomorrow, and that's hard to find a unicorn that can address both of those. And she really emphasized the importance of authenticity. I think a lot of partnerships go bad, and consumers are smart. They. They call BS on it. It's not authentic. That coupled with math and magic. So she had a process. She had a process. The army, like Lindsey said in there, they take it quite seriously. They put multiple folks, and it's a collaboration component.

[B]

You both work with a lot of CMOs. So what's your reaction to her as a leader?

[C]

The data's doing the talking. She's been wildly successful in a short period of time, and both from the financial success and the equity. The equity, the type of customers they're bringing in, rejuvenation. I think True Religion had some challenges over the years, and they've managed to revitalize, so that's not an easy task. So rock star in my book.

[D]

Yeah, I really love how, like, not precious. Precious. Not precious. She is about, like, where ideas come from. And she seems to really kind of have a reverence for hiring and arming her people in the way that. That keeps them close to the. The culture and. And, you know, everything she says is very simple, and I think there's something very powerful about that. The other thing I think I tapped into is she talked about the math and the magic, and obviously, there is so much math that goes into a lot of these decisions, but not letting that magic go by the wayside. You know, I think being able to make A lot of space for a lot of intuitive judgments, especially if you have a team who's really plugged into the culture or you're doing a lot of research that's really plugged into the culture, that intuition is going to be. Is going to be everything. And, you know, I've been very obsessed with this idea. I think Rick Rubin calls it vibe coding. That we are entering this era that is so aesthetically feeling driven that it's like it's vibes. You know, we make fun of that word. But, like, I think most of how we're making decisions, especially in very aesthetically driven worlds like fashion and music, is just based on a vibe. Like, it can't be boiled down to a formula or math. And you have to have a team with great taste, I think, to make work in a very, like, vibe forward world. And she feels very tuned into that.

[B]

Speaking of intuition, I described you very briefly to her, and she then proposed some. An outfit for our collection. How right on was she?

[D]

I want to see it. I will wear it. I think I aspire to be a baddie. We'll see if I'm.

[B]

I think this will help. Okay, listen, we always. We always close the show with the one thing that we would recommend our audience considers adding to their playbook from the topic of the week and the show. So, Lindsay, let's start with you. What's the one thing you would recommend our audience consider putting into their playbook?

[D]

Go inside the culture. You know, she said, know your audience. And I want to take it a step further because I think for a lot of marketers, audience and culture are still very segmented. And like, get.

[A]

Get in there.

[D]

Like, go to a Megan the Stallion concert if that's, you know, if that's the subculture you're tapping into. Like, where. Go to the nail parlor where they get their nails done. Like, listen to the music they listen to, love the things they love. And I think that's where you start to feel. Feel a culture at such an intuitive level that you can make, you know, bold and risky choices and partnerships that really pay off.

[B]

Ryan, how about yourself? I love that, by the way. Lindsay. Ryan, how about yourself?

[C]

One thing, you start with a brand audit to understand your brand challenges, your weaknesses, your strengths, and among the target you're going after. Identify brands that address those weaknesses while reinforcing your strengths. Coupled with. Don't just put the two brands together. Osmosis doesn't happen. The more you can activate it, whether it's functionally or experientially. The higher the return on marketing investment will be.

[B]

Love both. Mine is just have a tea time with your team, you know, wow, what fun that sounds like. And it's a ritual. They do it every week. Builds the culture. They all learn something makes them better marketers, you know, I'd love to learn more about that. I'm serious about it. Be fun to be a fly in the water, to sit in that meeting just to see what happens. Absolutely. How that culture works together.

[D]

Yeah, we got to go to tea time.

[B]

Yeah, I think we have. I think we have an invitation. Okay, listen, this is a great episode, by the way. Thanks. Thanks for everything you two brought to it. And we'll see you all next week for part seven, episode seven of the Brand Builders Play Work. We're going to talk about smart spending and mastering the media mix, which I think is a nice follow up to what we just talked about.

[D]

Are we all wearing leopard print next time?

[B]

I'm game. I have to dig deeply into my, my David Bowie collection in my closet. It is there, so I think I just have to dig a little deep.

[D]

All right.

[A]

All right, see you guys.

[B]

Okay, take care, folks. Thanks for listening to the Brand Builders Playbook, where we explore the real strategies behind resilient revenue driving brands.

[C]

If today's conversation sparked new ideas or helped you see things differently, do us a favor. Follow the show on your favorite podcast app, leave a review and give us a like or rating.

[B]

It really helps others find the show and keeps our conversation going, going.

[C]

And if you know a brand leader or marketer who needs to hear this, share this episode with them. And don't forget to check out the worksheets in the show notes.

[B]

We'll be back next week with more insights, more playmakers, and more of what it takes to build brands that last.