Why Sam Altman Spent $100M on 10,000 Viewers

Summary

The Colin and Samir Show (April 15, 2026)

Episode: "Why Sam Altman Spent $100M on 10,000 Viewers"

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Colin and Samir break down OpenAI's surprising $100+ million acquisition of the tech livestream podcast TPBN (Tech Podcast Business Network). Despite TPBN’s relatively small daily audience of 7-10k live viewers, OpenAI’s move is a watershed moment for the creator, tech, and business media landscape. The hosts explore what the deal signals for the future of media, the evolving role of creators as marketers and storytellers, and why live content and niche audiences have unprecedented value. The episode is rich with insights into the creator economy, the shifting definitions of media, and the importance of authenticity and narrative in today’s media ecosystem.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The TPBN Acquisition: A Head-Turning Move

• Summary: OpenAI’s acquisition of TPBN, a 16-month-old live tech show with a modest but influential audience, puzzled many at first glance.
• Why the deal makes sense:
  • TPBN’s influence in the tech business world far exceeds its live numbers, thanks to high-profile guests and massive clip distribution (average 200k views per clip).
  • The deal is compared to past landmark deals like Joe Rogan’s podcast on Spotify, suggesting a shift in how media properties are valued—more for influence and marketing ability than raw viewership.
• Notable Quote:

  "What turned your head? I think those guys do the best and most interesting job of covering what's happening with AI in a way that people understand, you know, they are genius marketers and I would love to have better marketing."
  – Samir (00:32), paraphrasing Sam Altman

2. TPBN as a Business Model Disruptor

• Live vs. Clips: Small live audience but massive impact through clips and segment distribution.
• Advertiser Integration: Treated like an F1 team, with sponsor logos on-screen and on clothing, and sponsored clips, making the ads business extremely profitable.
• Startup Background: Founders John and Jordi are seasoned startup operators and marketers, blending content experience with a sharp sense of branding and business.
• Financials: Projected $30M revenue in 2026, significant for an 11-person team.
• Notable Quote:

  "They treated it like a formula one team where even employees... are outfitted... with all the logos of the team, similar to sports."
  – Co-host (05:18)

3. The Real Reason for the Deal: Storytelling Is the New Moat

• Narrative > Scale: OpenAI’s interest is less about editorial journalism, more about hiring elite storytellers and marketers.
• Industry Context: Tech companies (e.g., Anthropic) are recruiting storytellers at huge salaries, reflecting the new premium on narrative skills.
• Notable Quote:

  "TPBN is a creative agency with their own distribution. And that distribution is more so proof of product than it is massive scale."
  – Co-host (06:49)

4. What This Signals for the Media and Creator Landscape

• Creators as Agencies: Modern creators function as creative agencies; their superpower is empathy with their audience and contextual mastery over internet culture.
• Marketing & Community: Companies now acquire creators not just for their media properties but to export their marketing expertise and build vibrant communities around their products.
• Notable Quote:

  "The creator as a creative agency... We are all basically the absolute best next wave marketers. So I think this sets a precedent and opens the door for a brand new type of deal, which is I like your show, but I need you as a marketer."
  – Samir (12:15)

5. Niche Maxing and the Decline of Virality

• End of Monoculture: True virality—where one thing captivates everyone—is rare. The new game is niche maxing: owning a specific, influential audience.
• Relevance of “Being Everywhere”: Daily presence in feeds through live or clips is more important than a weekly drop or mega-viral hit.
• Notable Quote:

  "Nothing is viral because everything is viral or... everybody lives on a different Internet, basically."
  – Samir (32:30)

6. The Power and Future of Live Content

• Live’s Rise: Audiences increasingly crave authentic, messy, real-time interaction—especially in an AI, hyper-edited content landscape.
• Clipping Economy: Live streams as source material fuel an ecosystem where creators, their teams, or even fans turn content into viral clips.
• Background Consumption: Live content’s appeal is that it can play in the background, requiring less than full attention—mirroring how people once watched TV/sports highlights.
• Notable Quote:

  "The messiness and the real time nature of Live is so much more exciting to watch as an audience right now... I want to see some of the pauses. I want the realness."
  – Samir (25:13)

7. Beyond TPBN: Industry Trends and Platform Shifts

• YouTube “Stations”: YouTube is trialing FAST channels—24/7 linear streams of curated creator content, further blurring lines between TV and digital video.
• Product vs. Media-First: Startups like TPBN build media first, then monetize or influence; big companies start with products and now seek creators to drive marketing/community.
• Notable Quote:

  "If fast channels were to take off on YouTube, that's a scenario where between YouTube TV and fast channels, they really are replacing television."
  – Co-host (43:28)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Storytelling as a Defining Company Asset:

  "Narrative control is now the core product requirement."
  – Samir, quoting Google Gemini (14:42)

• Why TPBN’s Model Works:

  "We can't be shooting something, editing it for two weeks... Instead, let me forget about editing. Let me go live, have other people clip it... once my live stream is done, I'm done, but I exist on the Internet."
  – Samir (29:32)

• On Authenticity and Creator Value:

  "The heaviness of that knowledge has changed what people create. When you're aware of the outcome, you optimize it. You don't share your craft, you share your well thought out product... Live is creating this setting where you have no choice but to share something real."
  – Samir (38:36)

• Live Performance Example (Justin Bieber at Coachella):

  "He pulled up old memes... There was a really raw realness to it. There was like buffering. There was him collaborating with chat... It was incredibly intimate and in front of 150,000 people."
  – Samir/Co-host (33:45 – 34:25)

• Prediction for the Industry:

  "I think we'll see a lot more that are angled towards... You're a creative agency, not a media property."
  – Samir (40:24)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00 – 03:56: News break—OpenAI buys TPBN, recap of show’s growth and reach.
• 05:18 – 07:00: The F1-style advertising approach and unique profitability model.
• 08:39 – 09:17: The new premium on storytellers; companies chasing creators for narrative skills.
• 10:15 – 13:03: Creators as internal marketing agencies for tech and product companies.
• 18:11 – 19:42: TPBN’s founders’ backgrounds and how their startup/creator mix supercharged the business.
• 22:35 – 27:16: The critical role of live, “hyper-present” content and why daily presence trumps weekly uploads.
• 31:35 – 32:30: “Niche maxing” and the diminishing returns of conventional virality.
• 33:44 – 36:17: The Bieber Coachella performance as a case study of “live realness” and new forms of online intimacy.
• 41:21 – 41:46: Advice for creators—know your core audience and embrace niche.
• 42:01 – 43:54: The future of linear/live content on YouTube via Stations/FAST channels.

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Takeaways for Creators

• You can build massive influence with a small but highly engaged audience, especially in a niche.
• Live, interactive content is gaining value in a saturated, overproduced content environment.
• Creators with marketing/storytelling excellence are becoming strategic assets for tech/startup companies.
• Industry deals will increasingly treat creators as agencies, not just media products.
• Constant presence (through daily live or clips) = ongoing influence; weekly shows or periodic virality are losing ground.
• Authenticity and being “real” on camera lead to the most resonant moments.
• It’s critical to know your audience—the days of playing for the biggest room are over; niche maxing is in.

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This episode offers a must-listen deep dive into the changing priorities in media, marketing, and creator careers in 2026—if you’re a creator, media strategist, or tech brand, these insights are crucial for staying ahead of the curve.

Transcript

[Samir]

Two weeks ago, I woke up to a text from a friend. It was a Wall Street Journal article that read, OpenAI buys tech talk show TPBN.

[Co-host]

We have some huge news. This is from the OpenAI blog. OpenAI acquires TBPN accelerating the global conversation about AI. TVPN is not going away. We're going to be live every day, three hours, as long as we want. Wait, wait, what? OpenAI bought TVPN.

[Samir]

So OpenAI just dropped hundreds of millions

[Co-host]

of dollars to buy a tech podcast. And Sam Altman now owns tpp.

[Samir]

Congratulations, Sam. You're now in media business. You acquired tbpn, the very hot tech online show and media company. What turned your head? I think those guys do the best and most interesting job of covering what's happening with AI in a way that people understand, you know, they are genius marketers and I would love to have better marketing. So if you haven't heard of tppn, it's a daily livestream podcast all about technology and business. There's about 7 to 10,000 people who watch the show every day. But it's reported that OpenAI paid upwards of $100 million for the show, not

[Co-host]

to mention it only started 16 months ago.

[Samir]

So at the surface level, this headline and article may not make sense to you, but actually I think it makes a lot of sense and I think it signals where the future of the media industry is going. All right, OpenAI buying a Twitter live streamed podcast. We're going to get into it. Okay, so it's been about two weeks since we saw this headline, OpenAI buys tech talk show TPBN.

[Co-host]

I thought it was April Fool's, but turned out it was April 2nd.

[Samir]

It was April 2nd. It was in the Wall Street Journal. I had to double take. But yeah, it's a crazy headline in our industry.

[Co-host]

Yeah, I mean, if you don't understand the role that TBPN plays in the tech world, how fast they rose, but you decide to go check out their viewership. The headline makes almost no sense in

[Samir]

terms of the size and scale of TPBN. They have 60,000 YouTube subscribers, about 300,000 followers on Twitter. They stream every single day. So essentially SportsCenter for the technology and business world. But the amount of people who watch it live is pretty. Is considered relatively small. So it's anywhere around like 7 to 10,000 people watch the show live across all platforms. They in real time, because they're producing live, are generating clips of their interviews and takes and news that are going out across every platform. And Scott Galloway did this analysis of their media output and showed that yes, the live is being viewed by 7 to 10,000 people in a session over the three hours they're live every day. But the clips have an average viewership of 200,000 views. And these are clips of them talking to Mark Zuckerberg, them talking to Mark Cuban, they talk to Travis Kalanick from, from Uber. So these are very notable people in tech that go out and the clips end up generating the traction and the audience.

[Co-host]

Yeah. And to paint you a picture of the show, it is SportsCenter for the LinkedIn business crowd. But even just visually, if you were to watch tvpn, if you have not before, they call it neo trad media. So neo traditionalist media, meaning when you watch tvpn, it looks like traditional media. It looks like something that could be on tv, it looks like cnbc, but if you actually sit for a second watch, it very much fits into the wave of new world media in that they are streaming live, chat is pulled up. It is a much looser made for the Internet show that just looks like television.

[Samir]

So we spent time with these guys about three months ago. Importantly here, this show's been around for 16 months. To go from not a show to a hundred million plus dollar outcome in 16 months is pretty crazy. It's unlike something we've seen before. And that number is only similar to the Joe Rogan deal we saw or those like mega Spotify deals we saw. So it's pretty unique. Now the question that a lot of people are asking too is like wait, why would OpenAI want an editorial platform? Or why would they want a news show? So just to just go inside the actual deal, TBBN has built this 11 person media company. So pretty small from a like media company perspective. In their first year they generated about $5 million in ad revenue. And then when we spoke with them, they were talking about how their sponsorships were trading at a million dollars each. They didn't fully confirm it, but they kind of alluded to it on our show. And they had 20 sponsors already locked in by December of last year. So when we walked out of their studio, we're like, oh my gosh, this is a 20 million DOL business. And by the time they actually sold OpenAI, it was projected that they were going to make $30 million in 2026. And the way they did their advertising was very different because they're live. They had sponsors on the screen the

[Co-host]

entire time and sometimes on their clothing. They treated it like a formula one team where even employees who Occasionally would show up on screen, are outfitted, you know, with the hat, with the ramp logo and with all the logos of the team, similar to sports.

[Samir]

So they built this incredibly profitable ads business. And the other thing they did is each of their clips was sponsored as well. So in a given day there could be 30 clips that went out. Each of them had a different sponsor at the, at the end of it. And so sponsors were serviced in a very unique way that was like very advertiser friendly and very forthcoming with the fact that they had these sponsors that made them incredibly, incredibly profitable. It also their whole structure made them so, so visible in the technology world. Like, you can barely open up Twitter without seeing these guys. And so all this to say, when I look at this and I look at the motivation of OpenAI, like it is not to pick up like the best editorial journalism in technology at all. That is not what this deal is at all. You know, the motivation, according to OpenAI's App CEO, Fiji Simo. He said it's to foster a constructive public conversation around AI and its impact. And then Sam Altman in an Axios interview said, these guys are genius marketers and we could use better marketing. That to me is like the most simple form of why this deal happened. Is that Sam Altman quote, yeah, TBPN

[Co-host]

is a creative agency with their own distribution. And that distribution is more so proof of product than it is massive scale.

[Samir]

Exactly.

[Co-host]

It's proof of their ability to storytell.

[Samir]

So this is a acquisition where the numbers kind of make sense here. If you go, okay, these guys were gonna make $30 million, at least 3x revenue. Or if you go based off the Spotify and the Ringers deal, that was 10x. Yeah.

[Co-host]

You wanna shut down their ads business, you're gonna have to pay them a multiple there.

[Samir]

Like I went from 5 million to 30 million, you're going to have to pay me 200 million bucks to shut this ads business down and come in house. But I think what you just said is extraordinarily important. Let's talk about this deal from two ends. One is what this signals to the industry. When I say the industry, I don't even know what industry I'm talking about anymore. It's a bit of the media industry, but also the technology and business industry. What it signals about creators roles in the future of business, I think is the first thing to talk about. And the second thing is what does the growth of a brand like this signal to creators who are building something right now? So a bit similar on these two but first, let's talk about from an industry perspective, what's going on. If you were on Twitter at all this week, you probably saw this. That Anthropic is posting job listings around video producers and storytellers. These jobs start at $250,000 and go up to 3, $400,000. And you really look at that and recognize the value of storytelling right now and the ability to craft a narrative.

[Co-host]

There was a Wall Street Journal article at the end of last year titled Companies are desperately seeking storytellers. And if you're a company and you're looking for a really high quality storyteller, someone who knows how to storytell on the Internet, understands the rules of the road to the Internet, who are those people going to be that are truly tried and tested creators that are actively.

[Samir]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Co-host]

Making and producing for the Internet every single day. Right. It's probably not someone from a traditional marketing background. It's someone who is hands on keys putting things out on the Internet every day. And those are creators.

[Samir]

So you look at how creators have been discussed over the past five to 10 years. It's been about the future of Hollywood, the future of media. And I think an under discussed part of creators is the marketing and advertising component. Of course, that is how we all make money. That is how the vast majority of creators make money. But we make money by making a show and allowing people to sponsor that show. This version of I'm a company that needs better marketing and storytelling. Let me just grab a creator and pull them in house. That is, that is, I think, going to be a growing trend. It's happened before. HubSpot bought the newsletter company the Hustle. HubSpot also bought the podcast Starter Story. It's like, if you reach my customer, then I want this media product. But I think what hasn't happened yet as much is you have a show, great, but you're also just a great storyteller. So come in and be my marketing department. And I think that's what's happening here with tppn.

[Co-host]

Yeah, I fully believe that's what's happening.

[Samir]

Yeah, it's like, help me with the next campaign around my product launch. How do I make this cool? They've proven they can make technology cool. Help me make my technology cool. Yeah, Keep going with tbbn. Keep going with their live show. It's obviously gonna change being owned by OpenAI. Is Mark Zuckerberg gonna come on? Probably not. Is Satya Nadella gonna come on? Maybe. But like it has a different tone to it. It's not the same show that it was two weeks ago before it was owned by OpenAI. But these guys proved how good they are at branding technology.

[Co-host]

I think it's important to touch on that what you just said. This show may very well not be the same show.

[Samir]

I don't think it is the same. It's already not the same show. And I love John and Jordi and I think they're amazing at what they do and they've done a great job of like not letting the show change over the past two weeks.

[Co-host]

But there is a very real outcome here where for the money that OpenAI spent in 2 years and 3 years, TBPN does not exist. I'm not saying this is going to happen, but if that were to happen where the show doesn't exist. But John and Jordi and their team have built up some infrastructure creatively and from a marketing perspective, it's probably still and more so what OpenAI is interested in. Does OpenAI. Yes. Sam Altman has a connection to these guys and to John because he invested in his first company he likes. It's his favorite show.

[Samir]

Yeah. So he also.

[Co-host]

That's a part of it too. Owning this is like an emotional asset for him. But at the end of the day, what needs to happen is the storytelling for OpenAI and their products being improved. And that's what this is about.

[Samir]

Yeah. Make it cool.

[Co-host]

It's the priority over TVPN now. Whereas pretty acquisition those guys wake up every day and the priority is tbpn.

[Samir]

Exactly. So the thing that we're looking at here is like the creator as a creative agency. That to me is what I'm looking at in this deal and even looking at ourselves in a lot of ways. A lot of creators operate as creative agencies. We're given problems and briefs, we're given stories. Our job is to be deeply empathetic to an audience and contextually aware about the Internet and how audiences receive messages on the Internet. We are all basically the absolute best next wave marketers. So I think this sets a precedent and opens the door for a brand new type of deal, which is I like your show, but I need you as a marketer.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Samir]

And that is a new deal that I think creators will be approached with tech companies, businesses. Right now. I think the other thing that we're seeing in that world is that everyone can make anything. Every day I wake up to some new tweet about how like an entire category of startups was wiped out because an AI company came over the top and launched something Right. And so because everyone can make anything now, like your software is probably not unique and can be recreated. Everything about the next era of business is story. It's all narrative and positioning. And so every company needs help with narrative and positioning. Again, back to the anthropic job offerings. Like they're hiring a ton of storytellers right now. They need storytellers. I have Google Gemini open right now and I just asked what does the TPBN OpenAI deal signal for the future of media?

[Co-host]

And it said, why are you asking me? You're calling it Samir.

[Samir]

It actually has really good insights here. Number one, the rise of platform owned media. I wonder if this is actually going to be a thing of like. Of course a lot of platforms produce media, but platform owned media properties. So like is Google going to have a cool media property that they own?

[Co-host]

I don't think so.

[Samir]

You don't think so?

[Co-host]

No, I think, you know, YouTube specifically, their DNA is like you. We incentivize you to make what is cool and we will have partnerships with you to keep you on this platform. I don't see why they would.

[Samir]

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

[Co-host]

Yeah, I don't think so.

[Samir]

Number two, media industrial strategy. This is really interesting. This deal signifies technical superiority is no longer enough to win the AI race. Narrative control is now the core product requirement. I agree with this one. It's exactly what I just said. I think that is fully true. And the last thing it says here is a shift that we're going to see is media as a loss leader. I think this is, this is what I was saying as well around like OpenAI has stated that TPBN is not intended to be a profit center. So that means like this, the show itself has no intention of generating revenue. This 11 person team is not responsible for generating revenue themselves.

[Co-host]

Yeah, I mean entertainment as a marketing strategy, look no further than Apple TV plus.

[Samir]

Yeah, exactly.

[Co-host]

Like reportedly losing over a billion dollars annually.

[Samir]

Right.

[Co-host]

Look, it's entertainment as marketing.

[Samir]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

And I think that TPPN signals a move in the creator economy where now that is a. As you were saying, it's a possible

[Samir]

outcome and it's not like it's not happening inside our own industry. Mark Rober and Crunch Labs, I would assume though, like his YouTube videos are profitable, but they don't really.

[Co-host]

Yeah. I think that's the difference is that a lot of YouTube creators have started Media first.

[Samir]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

There's a system for making media profitable.

[Samir]

Right.

[Co-host]

It's allowed us to intimately get to know our audiences and Build our communities and then there's the possibility that you can launch a product.

[Samir]

Right.

[Co-host]

Whereas OpenAI and a lot of these companies are starting product first and then they have a. A media marketing community building problem.

[Samir]

Yeah. Okay, so let's talk about what this means for creators because I think when we went there and spent time with them, I don't think this should be overlooked. The amount of influence these guys created in a short amount of time and with a very specific group of people. Now, before we go any further, I do think it's important to note these guys backgrounds. So both of them are startup founders through and through. John started a company called Soylent. He's been in and around the startup world in the past. Important to note that he's actually been a part of Y Combinator and Sam Altman invested in one of his companies and then John became a YouTuber. The first time that I came across John Coogan was as a technology YouTube creator who's making video essays. Jordy is also a startup guy and one of his most recent projects was running a creator agency where he was pairing creators with brand deals. So important to note that these guys a come from a startup background. They know how to build a product. They also know the world of technology and business. John has a lot of experience with content and YouTube and Jordy has a lot of experience with brands and how brands engage with media properties. This all gave this incredible mix of building a very successful media property. First, let's just talk format. So John and Jordi started this project thinking they were launching a podcast. And that's what they did. They started a podcast, they started recording once a week. Then they started recording twice a week. Then they started recording three, four and five days a week and then realized they wanted to experiment with live. And I think that to me, like that decision is monumental. The decision to go, this isn't a podcast, this is a daily live show. Podcasts are a dime a dozen right now. Everybody has a podcast. It is impossible to get someone to listen to your podcast. But when you change the positioning and the narrative of what a podcast is, quote unquote, what they did exceptionally, they made it look like TV, they made it look like SportsCenter or like news. They invested in the branding of tells

[Co-host]

a story of authority.

[Samir]

Immediately, immediately they wore suits every day. Like they made a brand out of this daily live show that looked familiar to legacy television. That neo trad media thing that you mentioned, I think is becoming more important as our worlds are combining. Right. Like it's hard for me to understand, you know, a great example, like awesome podcast Madeline Argie, her show, I don't remember what it's called, but she sits in the front seat of her car with a mic and talks to the camera. That feels very new media. That feels like creator. That feels, from an audience perspective, an intimacy. That has been what YouTube has promised.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Samir]

But when you look broader at the world, as these worlds are combining, when I can see something that looks familiar but it's done in a new, fun way, I can understand it immediately. Like, if I don't know Madeline, I don't know if I can immediately understand what the show is about, of her sitting in the front seat of her car.

[Co-host]

I do think we are saying familiar to older audiences.

[Samir]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Co-host]

Because I think some of these formats that are more traditional are unfamiliar. They're less familiar to younger audiences.

[Samir]

To younger audiences.

[Co-host]

Yeah. You know, I think about it fully in the context of when I am explaining to my parents or even someone our age, Sam Altman's age, we grew up on tv, TV and traditional media, and it comes with authority. So.

[Samir]

So I think then what I'm saying is that's specific to business media, too, also, because business media has not seen so much new. Like, new media and business media have not intersected yet, really. Except for in this context and maybe a few others.

[Co-host]

Yeah. So as a creator, it is important to think about what message are you sending visually within a split second of someone watching you, and does it matter? Does it matter? You know, if you're Madeline Argie, I don't think her audience wants her at a TV desk talking about the things she's talking about. There's a reason she's in that setting. Whereas tvpn, I think the audience does want that experience of news and authority.

[Samir]

The other thing that they did that I thought was so interesting is the first 50 episodes had no guests. It was just about them, too. And then even when they went live and started having guests, the first 90 minutes was always just John and Jordi talking. I think this is something I'm noticing in the world of podcasting, the world of content is that it is no longer at all a competitive advantage to book guests on a show. Like, almost any. Like, not anybody. But so many creators can book guests on a show. People will come on your show. People want to come on your show. There was a time where there was a low supply of podcasts, so getting a guest was like a really special thing. But even if you look at someone like Mark Zuckerberg, who's been on our show, like he'll make the rounds and go on a bunch of shows.

[Co-host]

It's just not a good long term strategy.

[Samir]

Yeah. And even something we've been thinking about is when we do interviews, it's like this very big ask for a collaboration. The most successful shows today are definitely collaboration based, but have a very small ask. So Subway takes. Hey, come do a take for 15 minutes with me. Track star, which we've talked about before. Hey, come do this music trivia show for 30 minutes with me. TPBN. I've been on it three, four times. Hey, do a hit from wherever you are. Join via zoom from wherever you are for 25 minutes. Very simple. Ask for the guest. The last thing is just that Live is seemingly becoming more and more important in this era of the creator economy. I think both from a perspective of content is getting out faster, clips are getting out faster. It's source material for people to clip. It's appointment viewing. It's every day you are flooding feeds when you are live. Yeah.

[Co-host]

People are opening their phones every single day they're opening their feeds and you're either there or you're not. And if you know, if you can make reels at a very consistent daily basis, great. But if you're only making an episode of your work once a week, you're essentially non existent.

[Samir]

Yes. We've been talking about is a weekly cadence even a cadence? I know we're a weekly show here with this podcast, but like I've been noticing, what can I latch onto from a weekly habit perspective? It's actually much harder than the shows that I think are extremely relevant right now that are showing up daily across my feeds or creators who are showing up daily across my feeds. And that's overwhelming as a creator.

[Co-host]

It's overwhelming. Yeah. I mean, I will watch Jon Stewart on the Daily show every week. I won't watch it necessarily when it airs. I won't watch it always the day after. Sometimes I miss it. But what I don't miss is Subway takes every single day.

[Samir]

It's in my feed every day.

[Co-host]

I see TBPN when I open Twitter every single day, even when I'm not looking for it.

[Samir]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

So from a brand perspective, they're hyper

[Samir]

present to me now to open up the aperture and talk about more than just tppn. I think Live from the audience's perspective is much more interesting. I am almost allergic to a really well edited video right now. I can't. I don't want it I just want to see something real. And we're starting to see an uptick of live across everything. MrBeast about a week and a half ago did this. 50 streamers trapped in a box. Which first of all is rooted in all people who go live all the time. Which is why it was such a big video for him. They have the biggest fandoms. They are so in touch with their audiences. But he did the finale live on YouTube and a million people watched that concurrently live.

[Co-host]

And he was also asking the live viewers to chime in and vote in polls that dictated what happened in the video. I voted for one of them. It was at the time half a million people voted for what would happen next in the video. And a million people, like you said, were watching. I thought that was unbelievable. And I actually thought a big moment for YouTube and YouTube streaming and YouTube UI, that he was able to do this in this way that felt very native to the platform. It felt very comfortable. You know, I'm not a traditional live viewer on YouTube, but I was able to take part in it seamlessly so

[Samir]

that what you just said is really important. Take part in it. There's a couple reasons Live makes sense and some of them may feel more obvious than others. The first one I think is the messiness of Live. I actually think the messiness and the real time nature of Live is so much more exciting to watch as an audience right now. I actually kind of want to see you stumble a little bit. I want to see you think. I want to see some of the pauses. I want the realness. Because we're in a world of hyper produced, of really slick AI generated content, of great graphics. Like this is the antithesis is Live. I just want to see something real. I want to connect in real time. I want to feel like I'm doing something with other people. I want to experience something at the same time as other people that creates community. Inside jokes. TBBN has done a great job with that. Is that there are. They wrote down every inside joke that came up and made sure that it was a part of their community during the build of the show. And then the interactivity, the fact that there's a relationship with even the term chat, the fact that I can say something and it will impact what's on the screen. I think my expectation as an audience member moving forward is almost always to interact with my media, to play with it.

[Co-host]

I think there's another reason though, that Live is taking off.

[Samir]

What is it?

[Co-host]

It's that we don't want to give you our full attention. We don't want to have to give you our full attention.

[Samir]

Wow.

[Co-host]

And live content does not ask for that. You can chime in, it plays in the background. You can still be on your phone if you're watching on your TV or your computer. I don't have to watch everything that happens for me to understand it. And I think like, we don't have time for full focus anymore. At least in these Internet settings, it's harder.

[Samir]

Yeah, that's a good point. That's a really good point. I remember living in my College House and SportsCenter was always on and you'd kind of plug in and out of it.

[Co-host]

Drop in, whatever, drop in.

[Samir]

Oh, top 10's on. We'll look at that for a second. What are they talking about? Oh, cool. Highlights, cool. And then just move on.

[Co-host]

Even a live sporting event, which is the ultimate tune in moment, is formatted in a way that if you miss a few minutes, generally the broadcaster will catch you back up with some high. They're like, yeah, yeah, here's what happened.

[Samir]

You know, I remember when we used to work in sports, you would always talk to athletes about their off the field life and what were the, what was the equivalent of the highlights? Like if on the field you have the live broadcast and then you have clipped highlights and that's how people know who you are. If you're on YouTube and you don't have the backing of ESPN or someone to produce that, what is your source material and what are the highlights? Which is actually pretty ahead of its time. We were talking about that in like 2012. That's what's happening here, right? Is like there's live source material that's essentially the game. And less, probably less people into the super bowl or something like that will watch the game. Then we'll watch the highlight that ends up on, you know, Twitter or Instagram. And I think this, this world of clipping is what is, is playing with what you just said. I don't need your full attention on the live. Look back at TPBN 7 to 10,000 people watching a live. That's not what it's about. It's about the clips and the highlights that are generating upwards of 200,000 each clip. So I don't even need your full attention there. Just could you watch a clip or two? Yeah, you know, then I'm good. And again, I think we talked about him in our last episode, but it's

[Co-host]

not even, could you watch a clip or two? It's my clips will find You. You don't have to do anything.

[Samir]

That's true. Yeah. You can't avoid that.

[Co-host]

There's no asking.

[Samir]

Yeah. If I'm posting 30 a day, you cannot avoid my clips. And from a quantity perspective, the number one streamer right now on KIK is highly controversial. Streamer Clavicular, who we talked about, he put out this report from Kik Clipping that shows that in the last 30 days, 1600 Clippers have clipped 69,550 videos out of his live stream to generate 2.2 billion views. Wow,

[Co-host]

that's overwhelming.

[Samir]

So he's going live and providing source material and then people are clipping. And of course, the clipping economy is rooted in, like, if I generate viewership, I make money. It's the gig economy of our world. But this is the model right now for creators, I think for a lot of creators, especially who make talk content or who have a craft they can do, or we're seeing an uptick of this. I mean, there's countless TPBN copies right now because of this model of I gotta get out of post production. I can't be shooting something, editing it for two weeks. Like, it's got to be incredible if you're doing that. It has to be incredible if you are taking the time to edit something. So instead, let me forget about editing. Let me go live, have other people clip it, have my team clip it, and then once my live stream is done, I'm done. But I exist on the Internet. Yeah. That's the model we're seeing right now. And I think that will only increase for creators.

[Co-host]

Yeah, I don't. I don't know if I see it turning the other direction ever. Potentially.

[Samir]

I. I think I can still see there are still people who are capable of making the great thing, who are going to make the great thing. Right. The live thing is very specific. And there was an article that I came across on Twitter that I think we should talk about, which was about the fact that views are dead and virality is dead. That there is no, like, there is no deep connection to large viewership. Or we may or may not see, like, increase, or we may or may not see, like, massive influencers, massive creators come about again, because the notion of virality is dead. And the alternative to virality is what he calls niche maxing, which is essentially what TPBN did. They went, here's a very small audience that we're going to own. They said it on our show. They said, Our cap is 200,000 tech employees and people Interested in technology and business. If we ever have 10 million subscribers, we did something wrong.

[Co-host]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, virality used to be a monocultural moment. If you think back to when something would go viral primarily on YouTube, and that person would end up on the Ellen show the next day, like the damn Daniel kid or something, right? Like, it was just so clear. Here is something with an enormous amount of viewership unlike anything else that came out yesterday. Nothing got the viewership that this specific video did. Okay. This person is viral. And that's just not the case anymore because everything is viral. Well, right. Like we've gotten to the point where on any given day, in any given community, there are so many videos that are surging in viewership or just historically have reached a point where they have mass viewership. Less things stand out.

[Samir]

I agree with you that nothing is viral because everything is viral or everything. Like, everybody lives on a different Internet, basically. Now, I will say, sitting here on the Wednesday, in between two Coachella weekends, Justin Bieber's performance was viral, right?

[Co-host]

If you leads to what we're saying, it was live.

[Samir]

Yes, it was not only live, it was like YouTube live. He was live on YouTube and on YouTube while he was live. And there was so much there to why this was culturally relevant. Even the fact that he was sitting on a stool. So, okay, if you didn't watch this,

[Co-host]

I think we need to explain it.

[Samir]

Yeah, if you didn't watch this, we should explain it. But he had line. It was highly anticipated. People haven't seen him perform in a long time. He's got new albums. He's also out of his record deal. There's a lot there. He started out in like a pretty minimal, cool set, just performing by himself. And then in the middle of the set, pulled up a stool to a laptop, went on YouTube and started pulling up his old YouTube videos and singing along to them. And then after he was singing along to them, he also just started pulling up cool YouTube videos.

[Co-host]

Like, he watched old memes.

[Samir]

Like, yeah, he pulled up Deez Nuts, Double Rainbow.

[Co-host]

Pulled up Double Rainbow.

[Samir]

He pulled up videos of him falling, like into the stage. Like, just. He just browsed YouTube and there was a really raw realness to it. There was like buffering. There was him collaborating with chat. Like, being like, chat. What do you think we should watch? What should I sing?

[Co-host]

It was incredibly intimate and in front of 150,000 people. And the camera that they had was a super wide camera sitting basically on his laptop. So you are essentially in between him and his screen. I Feel like new world intimacy is getting between someone and their screen.

[Samir]

Yes.

[Co-host]

Like even just starting a relationship with someone, if you can break them away from their screen and have them spend time with you, you are. You are intimate with that person. And that's what it felt like. It was like we are there looking at him in between his screen, just watching him pull up old videos.

[Samir]

Now, there was a lot of people. So I wrote an article about this and posted it on x and on LinkedIn. And a lot of people have responded to my article about, like, why he did that. Like, for me, I talked about the art of it and the nostalgia of it and the feeling that, like, we're all. We were all born into this world of, like, going down Internet rabbit holes. And it felt like this recognition that he was this young Internet kid and he's born from the Internet and born from YouTube, which I thought was really cool. But a lot of people were also commenting that, like, he sold his catalog, so he doesn't own his music. And so his only way of performing those songs was through playing them on YouTube in, like, short snippets.

[Co-host]

I also saw something that said that wasn't true.

[Samir]

Yeah. So I don't know. We talk about this and bring this up because it's in the same vein as tpbn. It is like, what we crave now is this live, messy, bring me into the world. That was what was exciting about it. And people called it lazy, which I think is crazy.

[Co-host]

I think that's nuts.

[Samir]

That's nuts. I thought it was totally one of the sharpest things to do in that context and one of the most contextually aware of where we are on the Internet right now.

[Co-host]

Yeah. I think it was the most interesting thing he could have done.

[Samir]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

I was at our local coffee shop the day after, and we were just talking about it, and a woman said to me, I was disappointed. I wish he brought out dancers.

[Samir]

Yeah. It's like, why?

[Co-host]

No, he's always done that. Everyone had dancers.

[Samir]

But that's the equivalent of what we're talking about, of this.

[Co-host]

There's no risk in that anymore. It's more interesting if there's that dead air.

[Samir]

Yeah. We have to watch something slightly risky. I think we do. Because it's so everybody can do everything. Everybody can make those slick graphics. Everybody can. But there's a couple of ingredients here.

[Co-host]

It's like everyone can't go to the moon and back. Samir. Which is why that was also interesting.

[Samir]

That was also viral, and it was that viral. Do you think Everybody knew about that, the Artemis launch.

[Co-host]

I would assume everyone on the planet knew about that.

[Samir]

Yeah, yeah, so. So virality is not dead, it's just in very specific instances. I think virality from like net new creators. Like I understand the premise that I don't know if we'll see another like mega creator breakout in anytime soon, but I think that's kind of liberating. I think there's a liberation to the intention is not to play for the biggest audiences, play for a very specific audience right now and to be more real and show a bit more messiness. I also think, on the note of not seeing another mega influencer, part of what I wrote about Bieber and my understanding of this performance was there was an acknowledgement here, or I felt it, that there was an acknowledgement that he is the last honest Internet sensation. And I explained this to you a bit just that like when he came about 19 years ago and he uploaded a YouTube video 19 years ago, no one knew what was possible when you upload a YouTube video at all. Like no one knew what that meant. And what I wrote here is we all know too much now. Everybody knows what the upload button can do. You can become a millionaire, even a billionaire, you can become famous and your life can change overnight. The heaviness of that knowledge has changed what people create. When you're aware of the outcome, you optimize it. You don't share your craft, you share your well thought out product. The thing you make becomes strategic, not honest. And that's why so much of what we see online feels the same. It's not that people aren't talented, it's just the awareness of what's possible has smothered the instinct to just share something real. I think live is creating this setting where you have no choice but to share something real. And I think Justin Bieber was the first true, like truly, we learned you upload a YouTube video and you, you can have all your dreams come true. Ever since that moment, we've all known way too much about what it means to upload something and it has limited the authenticity of what gets uploaded.

[Co-host]

I mean, I think some of our best work because of this reason happened in the first few years.

[Samir]

Yeah, of course we talk about the

[Co-host]

last time because we just didn't know what we were doing. We weren't playing to any strategy, weren't playing to any expectations.

[Samir]

We had no idea. Yeah, okay, we've covered a lot of ground here.

[Co-host]

So we're not going to talk about Bieber for the next 40. Because I could.

[Samir]

I mean, we basically. We covered a lot on him. So let's close the loop here. The TBBN deal is. Is a massive one for our industry, and I think it actually sets, like, a new precedent in our world, again, on both ends of the spectrum. One that if you're a creator or storyteller, you authentically know how to grab attention online right now, how to tell a great story, how to narratively compel an audience. You have become exceptionally valuable. And I think as creators, you need to look at yourself and go, am I in the media business, or am I just a really good storyteller? Or am I both? Meaning, am I looking for partners to jump on my show and help me make my show, or am I actually looking for ways to express my storytelling to help someone else in their problem? And both opportunities exist now at the same time. Yep. And that's a really interesting moment. I think we will see more acquisitions of both media properties and creator groups, but I think we'll see a lot more that are angled towards. You're a creative agency, not a media property.

[Co-host]

Yep.

[Samir]

Those are. Those are the outcomes I think we're about to see. And I think this deal sets precedent for some very high valuations for creators to join bigger companies if they want to. And then from a creator's perspective, I think it's all about understanding right now that, like, everything is good. We've talked about this before. It's all like, we live in an era of abundance. Everyone's good at making videos. Everything's good. What is the story that only you can tell? Back to Bieber. Only he can tell that story of showing himself singing at 12 years old on YouTube. That's only his story to tell. If he brought out dancers, you're like, cool. Another pop star can bring out dancers. But he did the thing that only he could do. Go on YouTube and be a YouTube kid. Yeah.

[Co-host]

And create a real moment.

[Samir]

And create a real moment. So I think as creators, we have to think about what format puts us in a situation where we're creating real, honest moments. Yeah.

[Co-host]

And what's your source material? What are your highlights?

[Samir]

It's hard. It's a new world. There is so much out there right now. The last thing I'll say is, who are you talking to? Like, who is the specific group? Are you niche maxing? Like, are you actually really clear on who you talk to? Because I think that's getting increasingly more important.

[Co-host]

Can we talk about something that's actually kind of exciting, that's relevant yeah, sure.

[Samir]

It's a headline that I've not been talking about things.

[Co-host]

No, no. I just. We're kind of at the end here.

[Samir]

But tell me.

[Co-host]

There's a headline that I think people may have missed, which is that YouTube's rolling out something initially internally called Stations.

[Samir]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Which is its version of fast channels. So these are 24. Seven linear streams that are made from existing YouTube videos on your channel. So essentially creators will be able to program their own linear TV channels and turn into 24. 7 television. So if you have a big back catalog, this is actually great for you because you can do compilations. Best of you can do BTS behind the scenes. And it just, it goes along with this trend of a rise in people wanting to sort of lean back again and not necessarily lean in.

[Samir]

It goes fully with what you said of being background tv.

[Co-host]

I don't want to give you my full focus.

[Samir]

Yeah, yeah. Like I just want to have it on.

[Co-host]

I just want to put Mr. Beast videos on in the background and let him go.

[Samir]

Super interesting. Yeah, I think, I mean, I would sign up for this for sure. I would do this.

[Co-host]

Oh, 100%. I think this is interesting.

[Samir]

I was thinking about it. Like, our catalog of interviews are really interesting, but I don't think you could play the full three hour interviews on a fast channel. I think you'd have to do like, we'd have to cut them to 15 to 20 minute bits, like a compilation that's running. Don't you think?

[Co-host]

Yeah, but what a cool future if on that fast channel we could also decide to go live.

[Samir]

Yeah, totally.

[Co-host]

And eventize that live.

[Samir]

I totally agree.

[Co-host]

I think it's, you know, YouTube people say YouTube replaced TV, but this would actually be, I think YouTube replaced some time that people spent watching TV. But if fast channels were to take off on YouTube, that's a scenario where between YouTube TV and fast channels, they really are replacing television.

[Samir]

Yeah, you're right.

[Co-host]

In a real way.

[Samir]

Yeah, it's definitely cool. Those are our thoughts on the megadeal that we saw between OpenAI and TPPN as well as this increasing importance of live streaming across the Internet. We'd love to hear your thoughts. We're also considering experimenting with some live ourselves. But we will also just be live in person on May 28 at Press Publish LA. Seats are filling up if you want to come. Press Publish LA and you can actually see us live. Like there's no screen, we're just there. Well, there will be a screen, but it'll be behind us. But we are there.

[Co-host]

You're making this confusing.

[Samir]

Just if you want to come hang out, we Got Press Publish LA Hollywood Creator Summit May 28 www.presspublish. does anyone say www.you made it sound

[Co-host]

like we were like holograms.

[Samir]

I am fully rambling at this point, so just thank you. If you're still here, comment if you're listening on Spotify and we'll see you next.