Derick and his Story

Summary

The Collage Podcast: "Derek and His Story" - A Journey from Adversity to Redemption

Released on March 27, 2025
Host/Author: Feed My Sheep, Temple, TX
Description: Produced by Feed My Sheep in Temple, TX, The Collage shares stories and experiences of people in our community, from all walks of life, showcasing our shared humanity.

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Introduction

In this heartfelt episode of The Collage Podcast, host Jeff engages in a deep and revealing conversation with Derek, a man who has navigated significant personal challenges, including a two-decade-long incarceration. Through their candid dialogue, Derek shares his journey from a troubled youth in Mississippi to serving 20 years in a Texas prison, offering listeners profound insights into resilience, the impact of environment on personal choices, and the enduring strength of family bonds.

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Early Life and Background

Derek begins by recounting his roots, stating,
"I was born in Natchez, Mississippi, and grew up in Port Gibson." (00:55)
He reflects on a "normal childhood," despite admitting to making numerous poor choices during his adolescence. These early missteps were not born from a lack of love or support but rather from the typical immaturity and rebelliousness that often accompany youth.

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Turning Point and Incarceration

The conversation takes a pivotal turn as Derek discusses the circumstances that led to his incarceration.
"When I got arrested, it was in a little small town, Central Texas... and I ended up serving 20 years straight." (04:02)
Jeff expresses astonishment, responding,
"20 years straight you were in jail?" (04:06)
Derek confirms, emphasizing the length and impact of his sentence, which began when he was 29 years old. This period marked a significant transformation in his life, forcing him to confront his past actions and their consequences.

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Prison Life: Challenges and Survival

Derek offers an unfiltered look into the harsh realities of prison life in Texas.
"Incarceration is nothing like the real world... you really can't stay safe." (14:00)
He discusses the constant threat of violence, the necessity of adhering to strict social codes, and the importance of maintaining one's integrity amidst chaos.
"You really need to mind your business and stay out of the way." (14:15)
Derek shares anecdotes about the camaraderie and conflicts among inmates, highlighting the delicate balance required to survive in such an environment.

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Reflections on Friendship and Family

A particularly poignant segment involves Derek's reflections on friendship and familial relationships.
"They weren't really your friends. They weren't doing things to help you." (31:02)
He contrasts fleeting friendships formed in prison with the unwavering support of his family back home. Derek speaks fondly of his grandmother, whose strength and resilience left a lasting impression on him.
"My grandmother was tough... She showed me you got to be tough through it all." (37:17)
Derek also shares the heartbreaking story of his brother's untimely death at the age of 14, an event that deeply influenced his perspective on life and loss.

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Lessons Learned and Personal Growth

Despite the challenges, Derek emphasizes the personal growth he experienced during his time in prison.
"It really is what made me the man I am today." (33:30)
He discusses how facing adversity taught him the value of integrity, respect, and the true meaning of friendship. Derek acknowledges that his past actions were instrumental in shaping his current self, fostering a sense of responsibility and a desire to rebuild his life.

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Transitioning Back to Society

Towards the end of the conversation, Derek touches upon the daunting task of reintegrating into society after 20 years behind bars.
"A whole lot of support, there ain't a whole lot of nothing." (44:55)
He highlights the stark contrast between the prison environment and the rapidly evolving outside world, pointing out the technological advancements and cultural shifts that make re-entry a significant challenge.

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Concluding Thoughts and Future Discussions

As the episode draws to a close, Jeff and Derek express their intention to continue the conversation in a future episode, delving deeper into Derek's reintegration experiences and the ongoing challenges he faces.
"We're going to continue this because this conversation is really interesting." (42:03)
They also emphasize the importance of community support and the value of every individual's story, reinforcing the podcast's mission to showcase shared humanity.

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Notable Quotes

• Derek:
  "I thought I knew everything, didn't know nothing." (02:44)
  "Incarceration is nothing like the real world... you really can't stay safe." (14:00)
  "They weren't really your friends. They weren't doing things to help you." (31:02)
  "It really is what made me the man I am today." (33:30)
  "A whole lot of support, there ain't a whole lot of nothing." (44:55)

• Jeff:
  "20 years straight you were in jail?" (04:06)
  "We're going to continue this because this conversation is really interesting." (42:03)

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Conclusion

"Derek and His Story" is a powerful testament to the human spirit's capacity for resilience and transformation. Through Derek's unguarded narrative, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the complexities surrounding incarceration, personal accountability, and the enduring bonds of family. This episode not only highlights Derek's personal journey but also underscores the broader societal issues related to the prison system and the challenges of reentry. Stay tuned for the next installment, where Jeff, Derek, and Casey will further explore the intricacies of life after incarceration and the path toward redemption.

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Timestamps:

• [00:55] - Derek discusses his birthplace and upbringing.
• [04:02] - Derek reveals his 20-year incarceration.
• [04:06] - Jeff expresses disbelief about the length of Derek's sentence.
• [14:00] - Derek describes the dangers of prison life.
• [14:15] - Emphasis on the necessity of maintaining personal boundaries in prison.
• [31:02] - Derek reflects on the nature of friendships formed while incarcerated.
• [33:30] - Importance of personal growth through adversity.
• [37:17] - Tribute to his grandmother's strength.
• [42:03] - Jeff and Derek plan to continue the conversation in the next episode.
• [44:55] - Derek discusses the lack of support upon reentry into society.

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This summary aims to capture the essence of the conversation between Jeff and Derek, highlighting the key points, notable quotes, and the overall narrative flow of the episode. It provides a comprehensive overview for those who have not listened to the podcast, offering insights into Derek's life story and the lessons learned through his experiences.

Transcript

[Derek]

Foreign.

[Jeff]

Hey, we want to welcome y'all to another edition of the Collage Podcast. Good to be back with y'all. And I am not gonna lie. Well, I can't say this. I'm excited about every podcast. Okay. I said that I'm really excited about today's podcast and possibly the discussion we're going to have, because this is a continuation of a discussion that I was having on Sunday. So without getting into any of that detail, we will start. And I would like to say. Okay, Derek's all right if you use your name.

[Derek]

Yes, sir.

[Jeff]

I just did. So we have got Derek here today. And where we are here is for all of y'all out there. Cause there's people that are all over the place that listen to this. So we're in a little place called Temple Texas. Okay. So it's in Central Texas, and we're at a place called Feed My Sheep. So that's the location where we're at today. We have Derek, and we also have lady with us. So Lady, Derek.

[Derek]

That's his dog.

[Jeff]

That's his dog. And so lady is not sure. So if you hear a dog, there's a dog in the room. And then also today. So you're gonna help me rate on this. This is ISA producing today, so if you don't like it, you're going to email isaac feedmysheeptemple.org all complaints would go there. So we will go. We're just going to start this conversation and get onto it, Derek. So let's just start with the nitty gritty. Tell us a little bit. Where were you born? Where's your family? Where do you call home? That kind of stuff?

[Derek]

Well, I was born in an old place called Natchez.

[Jeff]

Natchez, Mississippi.

[Derek]

Yes, sir.

[Jeff]

Oh, yeah.

[Derek]

Yes, sir. I was born in Natchez, Mississippi, you know, and I grew up in Port Gibson, Mississippi.

[Jeff]

Port Gibson, Mississippi.

[Derek]

That's where I grew up in. And my family is from that area around. In there.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Derek]

Yeah. And, you know, had a normal childhood, you know how that is, Mississippi. And got in a lot of trouble as a youngster. Didn't have to choose to. You know what I'm saying? Okay.

[Jeff]

Fair.

[Derek]

Fair and well, man, you know, my family from Mississippi, good family.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Derek]

You know what I'm saying? And I just made a lot of bad choices when I was young.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

That's what boys do.

[Derek]

Yes, sir. Very immature. You know what I'm saying? And I realized that not, you know, a couple years ago, how immature I really was, you Know what I'm saying? Thinking I knew everything in the world.

[Jeff]

I agree. You know, if I could. If I could go back, like, the. The single smartest time in my life that I believed was about age 15 to 18, I knew everything about everything, and everybody else was wrong and.

[Derek]

And really didn't know nothing.

[Jeff]

I didn't know nothing. Like, if I could go back to that dude. And I'm like, yeah, man, you didn't know nothing. And then even in 20s, I'm like, man, I thought I even knew it more. I know nothing. You know, not that I know anything now, but I realize. But now sometimes age gives you the understanding of maybe I don't know everything.

[Derek]

Yes. Yes.

[Jeff]

And so every day, I kind of get more going, man. 18, 17, 16, 15. I knew it all. And I do anything.

[Derek]

And like you say at that age, 18 years old, thought I knew everything, but that's when I was, like, entering the prison system.

[Jeff]

Okay, so let's just go ahead and jump on into this. Okay, so. And we're going to come back to talk to Derek is here in Temple. That's a logical discussion to go on. Mississippi, you're in Texas. How. But in it. What Derek and I were talking about, because I did not realize, nor do I ask, this is not my business, that you have spent some time in jail. Like, long time.

[Derek]

Yes, sir. To be exact, 20 years.

[Jeff]

20 years?

[Derek]

Yes, sir.

[Jeff]

That's what you told me.

[Derek]

Yes, sir.

[Jeff]

So 20 years straight, you were in 20 years?

[Derek]

Yes, sir.

[Jeff]

Okay, so 20 years straight you were in jail?

[Derek]

Yes, sir.

[Jeff]

So what jail were you in?

[Derek]

Well, when I got arrested, it was in a little small town. I don't know, just Central Texas. And y'all might not heard of Van Alstein?

[Jeff]

I don't know. Where's that at?

[Derek]

It's up, like, by Sherman.

[Jeff]

The Sherman area out east out there?

[Derek]

Yes, sir. It's right outside of Dallas.

[Jeff]

Okay. Okay.

[Derek]

Yes, sir. It's up there in the Grayson County.

[Jeff]

Okay. Okay. Grayson County's got some big deer.

[Derek]

Oh, yeah, they do.

[Jeff]

I know.

[Derek]

It's good hunting out there. Yeah.

[Jeff]

Good hunting.

[Derek]

Yes, sir.

[Jeff]

So somebody from Mississippi you got to know hunting, too.

[Derek]

Yes, sir. I know a little bit about hunting. Yeah. Okay, sir.

[Jeff]

So how old were you when you got the sentence to go to jail?

[Derek]

Let me see how old I was. I was around. What I'm on March. I would be 49, to be exact.

[Jeff]

That's a whole other discussion.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Cause he don't look. He looks way younger.

[Derek]

March 30th, I'd be 49. So I did 20 years. I've been out since 21. Okay, so that's what, 21, that's four years, right?

[Jeff]

Uh huh. Yeah. So we're in trouble if I'm doing the math.

[Derek]

Yeah. You know, that really was a dark time and I had to recollect my thoughts and stuff like that. Cause I don't really wanna forget about the things I went through. I want to, you know what I'm saying, learn from it. And I forget. But sometimes I'll be like, man, why did it happen to me? You know what I'm saying? I put things on myself like that. But I was in my 20s, you know what I'm. Sir. Yeah, yeah.

[Jeff]

So we won't go into whatever charge you got.

[Derek]

I don't mind. No, no, but I don't mind, I don't mind. You know, it was like burglary, overhabitation, okay? Yes, sir.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Derek]

Just making mistakes and a lot of other things to go with it.

[Jeff]

Yes, fair enough, fair enough. So we got that the discussion we had. Well, we started with he told me that he was about to be 49. And I didn't believe he was going to be 49 because he looks young, I mean, and he does like so. And nothing bad, I mean, but I'm like, no way. And then he said to me, well, you know, was in prison for a long time and you don't age in prison, you kind of just preserve you.

[Derek]

It preserves you, you know, like, you know, the jaws preserve. It really do preserve you. Like, you don't inhale all the toxins that you would if you was in the streets, you know what I'm saying?

[Jeff]

Okay, so that was, that started our discussion. And then, so then we said, okay, man, you went to jail for 20 years.

[Derek]

Yes sir.

[Jeff]

So then this part was. What really intrigued me is you gotta ask. And so I was like, man, tell me, what's it like to feel, to hear when a judge says, hey, and you got 25 years but you only had to do 21 or 20?

[Derek]

20. Yes, sir.

[Jeff]

Okay, so to hear a judge say, I hereby sentence you to 25 years behind bars, knowing as a 20 year old man, 20 years of your life are. They're gone as far as what you knew, they ain't no out on the streets and you got 20 years that soon as he says those words, that is way different.

[Derek]

Well, you know, if you haven't experienced real shock, it will put you in a. It's like this here. So when you hear that word, you just Blank, you know, and it's shock and shocks take over, you know what I'm saying? And it was very shocking because like I said at the time, I thought I knew everything, didn't know nothing. And so when I heard 25 years, that's what it did to me. I just went in complete shock. I was numb to everything. You know what I'm saying? So he said, 25 years, I was numb. I didn't know. I didn't feel anything, hear anything. My thoughts was my family, you know what I'm saying?

[Jeff]

This is the discussion here. So then out of that. Which is just. It is. It's got to be that, like, you would hear. You got this. You can't process it. Like you. It would be like, like it just. Your shock of. Doesn't really compute. Of 25 years. Even right now, somebody came into me and said, jeff, you're going to live, but the next 25 years, I'm putting you in this room right here, and you ain't never coming out. And I'd be like, what? I couldn't. You couldn't even grasp what that means. Okay, go ahead.

[Derek]

And it's like this here, too. Like, you have to work your way out of it. And the way you work your. I worked my way out of it is I thought about my family. Like, I put a very heavy burden on my family because I know the way I was raised, I was raised right. And I made the wrong choices, a lot of bad choices. And that's what I go to thinking about. Like, man, I hurt my family, not me.

[Jeff]

Okay. Fair.

[Derek]

My decision hurted my family, the people I love. And when you young at that time, thinking, you know everything, you don't think about that. You know what I'm saying? You just. You very selfish.

[Jeff]

Agreed.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Now, I'm not saying agree that you were selfish.

[Derek]

Oh, I was. Really, I was, sir. And I wasn't thinking about them while I was doing the things I was doing. I was thinking only me.

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Derek]

And really, I should have been thinking about them.

[Jeff]

Yeah. I mean, at a. At an 18 year old. No offense. Isaac's over 18.

[Derek]

Oh, yeah.

[Jeff]

He's not that way. But at 18, I sure didn't think my actions affected other people. Like what I did, man, that's going to hurt my mom, what I'm going to do here, that's hurting all these. I didn't even think about that. Everything was about me, what I wanted to do.

[Derek]

Yes. Because you really.

[Jeff]

And I ain't going to get caught.

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Like, yeah, I Mean, so like, what is, what does it matter on that? And then when you do, and then we're going to come back to that because I want to hear, so we're going into jail. And this is what was really intriguing to me is you told me that you realized when you're walking into the judge just said you're going, okay, you've been in the county jail and you're still an 18 year old, 20 year old, still might be thinking, oh, I'm gonna get off these charges. You know, they really ain't got nothing on me. I'm not actually going to go to jail sitting in the bell, the county jail or whatever. Not quite the same because, you know, I'm fixing to get out trials coming up. Okay. Judge tells you this, you can't really compute. There's no way to grasp you're going to jail for 20 years and really get what that means. Tell me what it was like when you're on the bus and they take into the real jail and you know, when that gate closes behind you, you ain't walking out the other way again for 20 more years. What did it feel like when you walked into the cell for the first time and realizing, this is where I'm going to stay for 20 plus years?

[Derek]

Well, you have to put yourself in a different mind frame.

[Jeff]

Okay?

[Derek]

Yes. And because incarceration is nothing like the real world, the free world as they call it, you know what I'm saying? And everything has to be now slowed down and thought about. Now this is when you really get to thinking. And that's crazy. Like, because you had an opportunity to do what you was put on this earth to do the right thing and help other people and you know what I'm saying, to do the thinking, then you lost that. So when they took that from me, that's when I started using it.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Derek]

You know, that's ironic. And, and now your life is on the line too, because the prison system is very dangerous. It's a very dangerous place to stay, sir.

[Jeff]

Okay, so can we ask that? I mean, like not. It's. It's legit dangerous.

[Derek]

Yes, sir.

[Jeff]

And things happen there.

[Derek]

And especially at the time I came into Texas, it was a lot of bad things going on in the prison system and to other offenders and stuff like that. And so they had to come up in the legislation, they came up with Safe Prison Act.

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Derek]

You know what I'm saying? And it helped a little bit. And then they start cracking down, really getting serious about that because they see the prison Systems as being overcrowded and they had to get more correctional officers to come in and script and things like that to really crack down on the crime that's was in the prison system in Texas.

[Jeff]

So in like not to. So somebody like me, this is neither that we would say, don't have a clue. Is it more dangerous than even I imagine in there at the time?

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Yeah. Because you're stout, dude.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Like, so I'm looking so like y'all can't see Derek. Derek's big old dude.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Like, I mean, big old hand looks like he could have been a boxer. Like he's got big old hands, like big dude. And so I'm looking at him for him to say is dangerous.

[Derek]

Yes, sir. Very dangerous. And now this was my second rodeo.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Derek]

Fair. I did, to be exact, I did three years in Mississippi. Three and a half in Mississippi. Right?

[Jeff]

Really? Okay.

[Derek]

Yes, sir. So I was. I'm not gonna say used to it, but I already know what to expect.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Derek]

So when I came into Texas, I knew what to expect. So now I gotta transform myself, transform my thinking. And everything has to be transform not only for me, but for other offenders and the authority in the system. Yes, sir.

[Jeff]

What's the game like in jail? Like, how do you. Is it. You gotta find a group just like, how do you stay safe?

[Derek]

Well, at this time, man, you really can't stay safe.

[Jeff]

Okay, fair.

[Derek]

You really can't stay safe. What you can do is, which a lot of people don't do. You can mind your business.

[Jeff]

Okay. Okay.

[Derek]

You really need to mind your business. Yes, sir. And that like you say, stay out of the way. And a lot of people don't stay out the way in there.

[Jeff]

Yep.

[Derek]

You know what I'm saying?

[Jeff]

Because again, you got 19, 20, 21 year old dudes.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Coming in tough, tough.

[Derek]

And then you got some older guys in there that's been there and they way tough. They way tougher. They know. And then they're more dangerous.

[Jeff]

That's right.

[Derek]

Because they use weapons, you know what I'm saying? Do they when you. Yes. Cause like when you young at that time, you coming in and think fighting, fighting. All these guys in here got weapons like 10, 12 inches sharp, you know what I'm saying?

[Jeff]

That they got stashed.

[Derek]

Yes. Because they lifers, they've been here, they gonna be here for a while. So this their house, this is how they live, you know. Really? Yes, sir. And that's the mentality when you know you going somewhere and you like you said at 25 years. And that's how I had to set my mind. Like, if I want to survive, just make it out. Thank the good Lord I did that. I have to mind my business and I have to do things that's uncalled for, you know what I'm saying? Like, things such as you have to fight for your life sometimes.

[Jeff]

Do you?

[Derek]

Yes, sir.

[Jeff]

So you had some scraps when you were there?

[Derek]

Oh, yeah. Yes. But, you know, they. I'm not a gang member.

[Jeff]

Okay, good.

[Derek]

Didn't enter a gang because I'm from Mississippi. Right. And I know it sound crazy, but when you enter the prison system like that, you got to. When you're alone, you have to make friends. You don't have to make friends. It ain't gonna have to be no gang. You know, they got church guys in there. They got groups, you know what I'm saying?

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Derek]

They got a lot of things in there. You know, they got Crips, blood. You know how they. You know. But you have to. You have to pay attention, okay? You have to observe because it's a fear you get. It's. I'm really good at it. Like, I'm really good at feels. And I go about. I'm a vibe person, so you got to feel the vibe. Like, you can get up certain mornings. You can know something gonna go on.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Derek]

Yes. It got to that point, like, it'll sharpen you like that. It really. Your senses heightens, and that's crazy.

[Jeff]

You knew something, man, that's gonna be a bad day. Yes.

[Derek]

Bad day.

[Jeff]

And I'd agree, like, so. Even here. Okay, so. Feedmatch. We're not a prison, but, man, you can walk in and you can't put your finger on it, but you're like, man, this ain't right today.

[Derek]

Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

[Jeff]

Something ain't easy and doesn't always happen. But you know that, man, we're so close. Something could go really wrong today.

[Derek]

And, like, you feed my sheep. This is a beautiful, wonderful place, man. And I thank the good Lord for it, you know what I'm saying? Because if it weren't for this place, I don't know where I'd be right now. Just like the job I used to have. I know, man. I wouldn't know where to be, you know what I'm saying? Like, you need more places like this, you know what I'm saying? That really genuine help and care about people. And, like, when you go in, you got to be like, I know. I was. I was. Like, I had friends like Cause sometimes you don't. Your family is not able to look out for you all the time.

[Jeff]

That's right.

[Derek]

So you got to do like hustle. You got to steal, you know what I'm saying, out the kitchen, you know, stuff like that. We called it tuck, like you called it what? Tuck.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Derek]

It's a bundle. Like you get about 30, 40 sandwiches, you wrap it up in cellophane and you tuck it. Like you get script out. Cause it scripts you out and you got to hide it. And then when you got to be able to walk with it between your legs, you know what I'm saying? That's called all the way back to the building. And they call it tuck. And so, you know, all kind of things like that go on. And people gamble. And you know, I seen a person seriously, okay, gets stabbed over a 25 cent bag of tattoo chip. Gets stabbed down.

[Jeff]

Seriously, he got stabbed down over 25.

[Derek]

Cent bag of chips. Cheese paws.

[Jeff]

A guy got stabbed.

[Derek]

Yes, sir.

[Jeff]

A 25 cent bag of chips.

[Derek]

Because he. Two for one, this other guy.

[Jeff]

Okay, what does that mean, two for one?

[Derek]

Oh, if I give you a bag of chips, you owe me two bag.

[Jeff]

Okay, okay.

[Derek]

That's a hustle too in there. Okay. You know what I'm saying? They use commissary like that. Like say for instance, you come and you got a sweet tooth and you like sweets. I'm gonna have the sweets and I'm gonna run me a store. That's illegal now, but it goes on. Yes, sir. And I have a locker box full of food and don't touch it. But I have it where I can make more. Cause I might eat me a bag of cookies one night, you know what I'm saying? So I got me about five bags of cookies. I can afford to eat me one and have four, and I can two for one of them. Four and have eight, you know, and that's how I was like, smart. Yes. And you know, it's a lot of engineering going on like that. It's small, but I understand it. And you messing with people livelihood in there, when you do things and don't pay them back. And there's a lot of that was going on, you know, a lot of that. And they try to crack down on it. Cause they know that that'll bring a lot of stabbing and violence.

[Jeff]

It's bad business. Like if you're in it. If I give you one and you owe me two.

[Derek]

Yes, sir.

[Jeff]

And you only pay me back one.

[Derek]

You shouldn't have paid me back at all. Because I'm going to get you like you never paid me.

[Jeff]

That's right.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Yeah. Because then it's bad business. Everybody knows, oh, Derek ain't gonna make me pay.

[Derek]

Yes, sir.

[Jeff]

You can't have that because business goes down, then you respect and all of that within everybody. Oh, this dude, he played him. He didn't have to pay back. Well then you gotta, you gotta make a lesson.

[Derek]

I like what you just say. Unless when you say the respect and that's the biggest thing.

[Jeff]

It is.

[Derek]

If they don't respect you, you're not, you got not going to never have anything in there, you know what I'm saying?

[Jeff]

And I would, I would even go on in our world out here, what you would see and I'm. I don't know, everything's about respect. Even out here it is different. And even the games, the same stuff. This one moving a little bit over here because you got respect. This one does this. This one gets this lady. This one gets it's respect. And to be treated with respect.

[Derek]

You're right. And in the prison system, if you know two dudes that will stab you down and kill you in one thing, none of it, you'll never see them get into it, you know what I'm saying?

[Jeff]

Oh, okay.

[Derek]

They'll never get into it.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Derek]

Because the simple fact they know if they have a problem with one another, somebody gonna die. You know what I'm saying?

[Jeff]

Yeah. Fair.

[Derek]

Somebody going, so they do their best when they conduct business with each other, it be on the up, you know what I'm saying? Or don't conduct business at all. And that's pretty much how it is out here, you know what I'm saying?

[Jeff]

Like, and I don't, I'm not equating humans to dogs, but you put two, sure enough, big dogs that are go getter. Oh man, you put two pits that are both big and stout, you put them in a pen together, they're going to realize probably got to get along. Unless something really bad because neither one of them really wants to take a chance.

[Derek]

Yeah. Because that's what it is. That's something left.

[Jeff]

That's it. And so it's when you run into problems is you put a really stout pit with this young one who ain't nearly as strong, they're going to fight because that young one's going to try on, doesn't realize how serious the fight.

[Derek]

Is going to be, how dangerous it is.

[Jeff]

That's right. Don't get it. And so it's the kind of the Same, I would imagine. There is them two guys and like, what you said, some dude that's there for life, what's he going to lose by stabbing somebody and getting more life on him? He's there forever. He ain't coming out, you know. And so you're like, dude has nothing to lose other than he can't lose the respect of the. This is his home. You said it. That's his house. And people are coming into his place. You're gonna follow his rules at the place.

[Derek]

And the respect is so serious until the guards, the authority respect them because they know they can lose their life too if anything go wrong. You know what I'm saying? So they respect more like people with a lot of time than they respect the people with two or three years, four years, because they don't care. You know what I'm saying? They, you know, you coming up with two or three years, you like, hey, I'm getting out of here, man. You know what I'm saying? But sometimes people have get the wrong hand there to them, and sometimes they can have two years and get in there eight months and get killed.

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Derek]

You know what I'm saying? Because I'm not gonna say it was destiny. It. Because you think he thought he knew everything and didn't know nothing. He didn't know how serious his life is on the line. And here it is, you know what I'm saying? So they come in with all kind.

[Jeff]

Of games and don't understand.

[Derek]

Don't understand.

[Jeff]

The game is different.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Like when you were in high school, you got in a fight, ain't nobody gonna really get. Now people do shoot. So that's not completely fair to say that anymore. But like when I was growing up, you went and got in a fight, maybe you get your rear end hand and you got beat up. Yeah.

[Derek]

So come back, I'm still the next day.

[Jeff]

Yes, that's right.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

So when you go to this one, it's a whole different game. And if I think I'm gonna go just fight and show somebody something. No, it ain't a fair fight. Like, I ain't gonna fight nobody fair because they're gonna make sure the numbers are right or they got a weapon.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Okay, so it ain't. It's not like, oh, we're gonna make sure we fight fair. Going to fight to win.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Okay. And it's this respect deal. Interesting. Tell me this, this was on a personal deal while you were in jail, the 20 years, how many of your family members passed away that you Saw for the last time when you went in.

[Derek]

Oh, man, I have where I had my mother.

[Jeff]

Your mother passed away while you were in.

[Derek]

Yes, my father.

[Jeff]

You didn't get to go to the funeral service?

[Derek]

No, sir. Your father, My father, my grandmother.

[Jeff]

Grandmother, yes.

[Derek]

You know, I love her to death. You know, she was really the only grandparent I only knew.

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Derek]

And they was there for me and my. I can thank the good Lord like my aunt. I had an aunt, man, I used to. When I was a kid, I used to love going to the house because of her children. My cousin. I got a chance to see her before she passed away.

[Jeff]

Did you really?

[Derek]

Yes. Yes, sir. The Lord blessed me on that. And what make it so bad. She was next to my mother. And that was my mother when she was young. I used to hear all kinds of stirs, like she used to meddle her. When they was growing up together, you know, they used to squabble, you know what I'm saying? They used to stay into it with each other because my mother was the baby, you know what I'm saying? And she used to pick on her bigger sister. And I really got a chance to see her. And I have the oldest and my oldest aunt out of all her. I love her to death, you know what I'm saying? She's still alive. Okay, but she can blind and you know what I'm saying, Deaf, but God got it, you know what I'm saying?

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Derek]

She preaches that all the time. Yeah. But really, you know, I got brothers, but, you know, they living their life and you know what I'm saying, I left at a younger age, and he left and did time and he did like two years for shooting at the police.

[Jeff]

And that's probably not your best idea.

[Derek]

Yeah. And McKinney, I was like. When he told me that and they sent me the paperwork, like he had to shoot out with the police, I'm like, man, bro, you better be glad they didn't kill you. Yes, he was. No, he was blessed.

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Derek]

Yeah. And I got him, you know, he in California, but that's about it. I don't have any help, you know what I'm saying? From. And I'm a type of person, like, I don't like to ask.

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Derek]

My pride is too big, and I'd rather give than receive. I don't know, you know what I'm saying? And by me being in a position, I was in. I was in prison, you know, And I got to receive my family, you know what I'm saying? Because my Mother was always there. And she used to tell me, this is how crazy it is when I first went to jail. Because I used to do things in the streets that I used to try to hide from my mother.

[Jeff]

Right?

[Derek]

I'm young. I'm not knowing. You know what I'm saying? I don't want my mother to know I'm doing this in the streets. And when I went to jail one time, this dude told me, you know, older head. He was like, bro, you don't. Cause he was talking about another situation. And he was like, you don't ever want to have your mother not knowing what you do in the streets. Because if something happened to you in the streets, it gonna be heavy on her heart. And she gonna be thinking, my baby. You know, my baby. No, you need to. Your mother need to know so she won't be thinking, like, you was good. You know what I'm saying? She always. You know, folks go hard with love, Y'all.

[Jeff]

I love you.

[Derek]

Yeah, but you don't want to hurt her and break her heart like that.

[Jeff]

To find out.

[Derek]

Then to find out. And then, you know, it's crazy. Cause when I went to jail another time for drugs. And she told me, out of all the people in the world. Cause I was still hiding things. She said, out of all the people in the world, you. I'm her oldest. She was like, I never thought that you. You know what I'm saying? And it really hurt me just hearing her say that.

[Jeff]

How bad did that hurt?

[Derek]

Man, it crushed me, you know? Cause I love my. Yeah, first of all, I respected her, okay? You know what I'm saying? You got to have. I respected my mother. And, you know, I was in the sixth grade, the same height my mother is. You know, she was short. And I respected her. Cause she beat the brakes off us, you know? Yes. You know, man, my mother came to school in the fifth grade and whooped me in front of the whole class.

[Jeff]

Did she really?

[Derek]

Yes. Had me running all around the classroom. And then when she left, all the kids in the class laughing. Me crying. I'm looking at them like, what y'all crying for? I get this album today.

[Jeff]

You know what I'm saying?

[Derek]

And my teacher told me. My teacher told me. She said, derek, I would never call your mother on you again. That's how bad it was. You know what I'm saying? I got it now. Don't think, lady. Come on. Come here, girl. Come here. Don't ever think. No, they didn't lay. My mother laid the wood down and that bring respect.

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Derek]

With me. You know what I'm saying? I respected my mother because I seen a lot of things when my father was there with my mother, like, you know what I'm saying? Growing up. But my father was never there for me to have respect for him.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Derek]

So, you know, and. But to see the things my mama did with it. She didn't smoke, she didn't drink, she didn't party. She didn't do none of that. And you'd be like, wow. But that's how she was. She was sturbing. Really disturbing. Like, she was stiff. She stand on, you know, she was scary now, like, you know what I'm saying? She was like. But she was real stern. She knew that she had to raise these boys in the millions.

[Jeff]

That's right.

[Derek]

She knew this. And she didn't play, bro. And. And that's brought, like I said, it brought the respect. And with the help of my uncle, that's who made me a man. He's the only man. God knows I'm telling the truth. That I was afraid of. Okay. I'm not scared of no man.

[Jeff]

No. Agreed.

[Derek]

You know what I'm saying? He was the only man that walked this earth that I was petrified of. And he helped my mother bring this up. Cause he tight broke too. He the one that. He really bring the hammer down when he gets serious. He was the one that moved the furniture, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, he was the one. And I. By me being petrified of them, the respect show was high, you know? And I still thought I could do things sneaky and get away with it, you know what I'm saying? That was the type I didn't hang around. Like when my mama do have her girlfriend come over and they talking, I would go in my room, you know, I don't want to be around, but my brother and them, they'd be mingling. I wasn't like that. I was always offish, you know what I'm saying? Thought I could do things and hide my hand, you know what I'm saying? And that's. That's how I used to think when I was interesting.

[Jeff]

Like, so, like here I'm gonna say people who don't know you or don't know situations, and they would think, oh, man, if Derek would just had somebody would have been strict with him growing up, man, he would have made better decisions. You had somebody that was making you route a tightrope.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Your mom was tight on you.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Okay. And so. And there was rules okay. And so you go, well, now, that's not a fair statement because Derek had somebody. Your mama came up to class and whooped you in class because you had done so. So let me ask. Why do you think you were more apt. Why do you. Why did you go and go do what you're going to do.

[Derek]

To fit in.

[Jeff]

Okay, tell me about that.

[Derek]

All right. You know, it's very important to have friends, like, you know what I'm saying? But I just unfortunately picked the wrong kind of friend.

[Jeff]

Agreed.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

So I would. I would say to that to go in. It don't know your whole story. I've seen. I work with kids for a long time. It's. You know what? I just wanna. I wanna fit in.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

I wanna be respected. And we're gonna find places that sometimes the wrong friends find us. And the things they're doing and the respect we get puts us in bad places.

[Derek]

And really, it wasn't my friends. I was really their friend.

[Jeff]

Oh, okay. You know, you're right. Good chance.

[Derek]

Yes. They didn't do me the way, you know what I'm saying, I would do them. They didn't stand for me the way I would stood for them. You know what I'm saying? That I did stand for them. And just to pick the wrong friends, that was partially one of the biggest mistakes, you know, saying.

[Jeff]

Wow, I like what you said that. That they weren't really your friends. They weren't a friend to you. Like, they weren't doing things to help you. And good friends, they're not going to lead you down this path. But we find ourselves in groups of people that really, at the end of the day, they ain't our friend. They doing nothing to help us, and they get us in places that are really, really not the best. Let me ask. Okay, so then. Now this is the. And I'm gonna tell you this. You know, we're gonna do. Derek, I'm telling the ne. We're gonna come back and we're gonna do part two of this discussion because I want to have you and Casey and me, we're gonna talk more about. Because Casey's been to jail.

[Derek]

All right.

[Jeff]

Okay. So Casey spent time and he said it on here. I'm not telling, but I'd be interested because the discussion we could have about that time. Okay, so where we're at now, because we're going to have part two, because I like your discussion. Like, this is good. And we're going to have more of this. Okay, let me ask you now if you could go back to that young boy before he got locked up to the first time or before he got locked up for the second time. What would you go tell that dude about what he should or shouldn't be doing? Like, what would you go tell Derek that you're now this Derek. Okay. And you're gonna go talk to that Derek. What would you tell him about where he's going?

[Derek]

Nothing. Because I know he's not going to listen.

[Jeff]

Okay. He ain't going to listen.

[Derek]

Yes, sir.

[Jeff]

Okay. So, like, for you to get to this place, you had to have gone down that path.

[Derek]

Yes. And really, I wouldn't go back and change the thing either.

[Jeff]

Okay? Fair.

[Derek]

It really is what made me the man I am today, you know what I'm saying? I swear to you that. You see right here. And see, I learned a lot of integrity by.

[Jeff]

Isn't that crazy?

[Derek]

Yes. You learn things like that because you don't know what integrity is. You don't know really what anything is until you go through it, you know what I'm saying? And it teaches you. It shows you who your friends are, who really loves you, you know what I'm saying?

[Jeff]

Oh, for sure.

[Derek]

It teaches you that. And it's crazy. Like, through these music, you know, rap lyrics, like, it tells you things like that. Like. But you not listening to that, taking on that aspect of what they're saying. Like, did nobody write me?

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Derek]

No one. No one go by to see my mother, you know what I'm saying?

[Jeff]

Right, Right, right.

[Derek]

See my family, check on them.

[Jeff]

Right?

[Derek]

You know what I'm saying? And yeah, my mother was grandmother, uncle. That's who was in my corner. Yeah, my family.

[Jeff]

That's right. All your buddies that y'all ran around and this and that, you get locked up, you got. You still got a mom that's. Now ain't nobody going to check on her.

[Derek]

Yes, sir.

[Jeff]

Okay. And all the. I bet you couldn't even keep. You just said you can't, huh? All your buddies that were all type, they stopped writing real quick, if they wrote at all.

[Derek]

Yes. And that what taught me what true friendship is.

[Jeff]

You're right.

[Derek]

I know that one friendship that did.

[Jeff]

They're gone.

[Derek]

That's not. I knew that was a lesson inside a lesson for me, you know what I'm saying? And like, I'm gonna say this here. My brother that passed away in Dallas, right? He got killed in Dallas in 2018. And his friend from Mississippi, he had a bunch guys, he used to run with us. But it was one true friend who Went to his funeral. Hey, man. Yes, yes. It was only one friend that a person you can call a true real friend that went to my mother and paid his respects. And out of all the people that we used to run with, hang with one. Hey, man, that's very rare. And hey, you don't find that, you know, but it teaches you too.

[Jeff]

What in the world.

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

To all that we ran with all of this and that the dude dies and only one of. Only one of his friends showed up and paid respects to come say your mother and say we're sorry about your loss. Come see that he's gone.

[Derek]

One that's a true friend, though I'd rather have that one than 100 million fake.

[Jeff]

Fair.

[Derek]

You know what I'm saying?

[Jeff]

Fair.

[Derek]

But like I said, and through that. That's like a lesson with insiderless.

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Derek]

You know, and I don't know how many. I don't think none of my friends, so called friends back home would ever come to my friend. Really. I don't want them to, you know what I'm saying? Because they really, like I said, they weren't my friend.

[Jeff]

No, you're right.

[Derek]

Yeah. They really were my friend. They helped us at the time. They was really destroying me.

[Jeff]

That's right.

[Derek]

My way of thinking, my way of movement, you know what I'm saying? But it was leading me to a path that I am here. I'm not no preacher, you know what I'm saying? I come. My grandfather on my father's side, I heard was a preacher.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Derek]

You know what I'm saying? But I really understand now. I really know now, you know what I'm saying? And I don't think if I'd have went through. Through that. I wanna know. Because my mother didn't raise us to be. What's the word I'm looking for? Emotional. Like to solve things and corral your emotion and solve things and think. She didn't raise us like that. Her worries and her thing was putting food on the table and clothes on your back, you know what I'm saying? We didn't have that emotional support that normal kids had, you know what I'm saying? My mother was. She was more emotional herself. She couldn't control her emotion. But my grandmother was really solid. Like, she was like, well, I'll tell you a story right here.

[Jeff]

Yeah, yeah.

[Derek]

So to explain my grandmother, my mother built a house right next door to my grandmother and she got her house built and boy, that's a story. But I'm gonna tell you this here. My brother, I was 15, he was 14. And kids. And he used to go sell drugs to this man around the corner. But he used to jump on him a lot. And one day, I guess the man got tired, he came up there and shot him in front of my grandmother's driveway.

[Jeff]

What?

[Derek]

Yeah, with a.32. My brother died three times that time at 14 years old.

[Jeff]

He got shot at 14?

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

And in your grandma's driveway.

[Derek]

Driveway.

[Jeff]

What in the world? Okay.

[Derek]

Yes. And you know, my grandmother's in the house I'm talking about. She's static, she's solid like everybody else, running around, emotional, you know what I'm saying? My grandmother. So I'm tripping now, you know what I'm saying? My brother's right now. Yes. And I run a house and I'm looking for a gun. And I know where it's at. It's in my grandmother's purse. So I shoot in the room and I'm going through a purse. Ain't no gun in there. Ain't no gun up in there. She always keep a gun in her purse, the.38, you know what I'm saying? And she over there still making salad, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. She was cooking at this time. It was the time of the evening. She was making a salad.

[Jeff]

And your brother's in the driveway.

[Derek]

Yes. And my uncle in the wheelchair and he's. He tripping with me. Cause I'm emotional loony right now and uncontrollable. Because if I'd have got a gun, I'd have shot him and killed him, you know what I'm saying? Seriously. And my uncle, he trying to calm me down, cursing me out. My grandmother's not saying it. I'm paying attention to making a salad, cooking dinner. I'm talking about just the coolest thing in the world. And it throws me, you know what I'm saying?

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Derek]

So my mother come over to usher. She throwing a fit too. She. And you know, and I look back on things like that, like, man, my grandma was tough.

[Jeff]

Uh huh.

[Derek]

Yeah. You know, and it showed me, like, she was the one more really into what, like stable. Like, well, you can't break me nothing, you know what I'm saying? Even though I noticed my grandson laying out there about to die, you know what I'm saying? I'm not shook. And that's how tough she was. And it showed me, like, it's hard for me to not. Like when they passed away and I shed a tear, but she showed me, you got to be tough through it all, through the thick and thin, the bitter and the sweet. You know what I'm saying? And if you don't, anything can happen. You know what I'm saying? Anything can happen. And I look back on that, and that was. Situation. I was like, I really saw. I really saw who my grandmother was. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeff]

Wow. What in the world? Okay, so that is. Well, I would just tell you, I. There's not many people that have that story.

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Like, I mean, like, your store, like, all of like. And these aren't made up. Like, this is.

[Derek]

It's genuine.

[Jeff]

It's like, that was just the same as you would say, hey, I went down to the creek and I caught four fish. You're like, yeah, I remember that time. My brother was 14, and he was the guy who was selling drugs with down the street, you know, got tired of it and came and shot him in my grandma's driveway. And she never stopped making salad.

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

You're digging through a purse to try to find the. Shoot the guy.

[Derek]

Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

[Jeff]

Normal.

[Derek]

Yeah, Just. That's it. And like I said, boys, it was. It was something else to see that.

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Derek]

You know what I'm saying?

[Jeff]

Well, then what we're going to do is we're going to continue this because this is. Your conversation is really interesting because what I want to hear the next. Like, we're going to continue on this because you've said what I want people to hear. Like, what's interesting. Okay. You went to jail and you came to realize what and who was really important to you.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Interesting. You went to jail and out of that, you learned about integrity. And you're like, interesting, like, what in the world. But it's true. And then you found out there what real respect looks like.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

For yourself, too. And then how to be tough and how to persevere. So we're gonna. Next time, we're gonna keep going with this discussion because it's interesting. I hope everybody out there is listening. You're going, I want to hear part two of this. Because for his brother, you said that's one of. Well, we know that he got shot at McKinney, right? Oh, no, he's different brother.

[Derek]

No, he was in Mississippi.

[Jeff]

No, but what about the one who.

[Derek]

He died in Dallas? He got killed in the same one.

[Jeff]

Same one. Okay.

[Derek]

Well, this was years later, but he.

[Jeff]

Had three times that he died, you said.

[Derek]

Yeah, he died three times. They brought him back. When he died the first time they brought him back, he. This on the Pavement. He died again. They brought him back and he died on the table.

[Jeff]

Oh, okay.

[Derek]

Yes, they brought him back.

[Jeff]

Did he ever tell any cool stuff about what he saw when he was dead?

[Derek]

No. Cause I really didn't ask him.

[Jeff]

Okay, fair enough.

[Derek]

You know what I'm saying?

[Jeff]

Fair enough.

[Derek]

I really didn't ask him. Cause he was more like, oh, he was some serious man. You know what I'm saying? And by him being shy, he walked kind of funny. It still didn't change who he was. You know what I'm saying? He was. He was that dude, man. Yeah.

[Jeff]

Okay, so then when what you and Casey and I are going to talk about, because y'all both had the same feeling, okay. You've been locked up for 20 years. And so that's. We talked about what it feels like to go in and how to survive in that. And then all of a sudden, one day is coming. Twenty years later, they let you out on the street.

[Derek]

I don't believe it. I didn't believe it.

[Jeff]

Okay. I agreed. So I want to hear. We're going to go. All of a sudden, somebody's going to go. Because in jail, okay, the world has changed. 20 years. Your 20 years is huge.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Like, so we would say a word that starts with an F and has it. But it changes.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

A whole effing lot in those 20 years. They didn't have. We went in. We really didn't have Internet much. Cell phones, all of this stuff.

[Derek]

Not. Not at all.

[Jeff]

Not much. That's right.

[Derek]

It was some young guys coming in, telling me, like, at the end of my. My time, like, by me making parole, come here telling me we talking about music and stuff like that. They said, man, they got all that on the phone. I'm like, what? Yeah, that went on the phone.

[Jeff]

You gonna watch videos on this?

[Derek]

Yeah. You know, it was unheard of to me.

[Jeff]

That's right. No, that is absolutely amazing to me to look at what you went in. This is what the world is. You come out and here's what it is, and they just let you out.

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

A whole lot of support. There ain't a whole lot of nothing. There ain't a whole lot of going, hey, here's what. Hey, Derek, we're going to spend the next six months because you're fixing to get out. We're going to kind of tell you what the world is like now. Okay. Here's how to use phones. Here's how to do this. Here's what. This is nothing. They just say, congratulations, gave me a.

[Derek]

50 check that's right.

[Jeff]

50 check. And hey, you can go to such and such place. They might give you some clothes.

[Derek]

Well, they didn't do it like that for me because the only reason I made parole, I feel in my heart like when I first went in, I went and got my ged. I did that. That was the best thing I ever done right there. And that was in 2000. That was like 2006, because I did two years at, you know, you gotta do two years transfer at a small facility somewhere and then they really to get you adjusted to go to prison. You know what I'm saying? And I did two years there and I was trying to get my GED there, but it never happened. And then I went and when I made it to the unit, I was gonna be on for a while. I did like what, seven, eight years over there. I did get my GED over there.

[Jeff]

Good.

[Derek]

And that helped me to make parole. I, I, I look back on that and, and that's what helped me make parole now because I was able to get go to school in 2018.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Okay, good. So we're going to look at the next one. What's it like getting out and trying to catch up to the world? That's changed 20 years. And then now, because in prison, the rules, whether I like them or not, pretty understandable. Don't mess with this, dude. You're going to get stabbed. This is what you're going to have to do to make it. This is how you make it. You follow the rules. The world far more complicated like I think. So we're going to look at, not in specifics of how, but how to make it, how to figure out the games, how to figure out how to make it and get back going in the world and to catch up and then what? It looks like that.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

You know, because don't want to go back at this. But so we're going to continue that. We're going to have it another discussion on that because we got to get on to lunch. I'm hungry.

[Derek]

Yeah, me too.

[Jeff]

Your dog did good and we got, we got plenty in there. We'll get Isaac to take you in that. We'll get stuff to go. So Marie ain't all rude to you.

[Derek]

All right.

[Jeff]

All right.

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Hey, so what we will say, and then I hope you found it half as interesting as I did with the discussion with Derek to look at this and that's a long way from Mississippi to here in Temple, Texas. And we're going to look at that and we're going to continue this. But everybody out there, we would say, like here, and Derek learned this like that. We would say, every person, they matter, and they are good.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Jeff]

And they have worth. And then we do that. And they deserve to be treated with respect. They deserve to be treated with dignity. That's what we do, and that's what we're about. And then, so he would say, every world is about that. And then what we'd also say is to everybody out there who's listening to this, wherever you are, you are a person and you matter, and you deserve respect and you deserve dignity. Not because I say it, but because God himself says it. And also in this, for all of us, you know, not a bad time to just take a little evaluation to look at all the people that you surround yourself with and to go, huh? Do these people really care about me? And are they really are going to be there when things get tough? Because we only find those things out when things get tough and we realize, oh, crap, ain't nobody here. Yeah, ain't nobody here. I'm on my own. And at the end of the day, you know, blood is thicker than water. Family is family.

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

You know, and so we got that. So hope everybody out there has a great day. I hope you've enjoyed this. This has been intriguing to me. Like, this one is just the world. And, lady, you did pretty good. So she did all right?

[Derek]

She did.

[Jeff]

She'll get used to it.

[Derek]

Other than using barefoot.

[Jeff]

Well, okay. Okay. So, Isaac, we are done. Thank you.