Episode 62- Laura, Part 2

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Collage Podcast - Episode 62: Laura, Part 2

Introduction

In Episode 62 of The Collage Podcast, hosted by Feed My Sheep from Temple, TX, Jeff welcomes back Laura for a follow-up discussion centered around their previous conversation. The primary focus of this episode is the exploration of hope, inspired by the movie The Shawshank Redemption. Released on February 12, 2025, this episode delves deep into the themes of hope, resilience, and the human spirit, drawing parallels between the film’s narrative and real-life experiences within their community.

Discussion on The Shawshank Redemption and the Concept of Hope

Jeff begins the episode by setting the stage for a focused discussion on The Shawshank Redemption, emphasizing its portrayal of hope amidst dire circumstances. He introduces the idea that the movie serves as a profound exploration of humanity, struggles, and the enduring nature of hope.

• Jeff [02:44]: "This conversation centers off that movie because I think it is an unbelievably good movie about humanity, about mankind, about struggles."

Laura shares her perspective on hope, contrasting it with the movie's portrayal. She emphasizes the importance of maintaining hope without harboring unrealistic expectations, acknowledging that while hope is beneficial, it must be balanced to prevent disappointment.

• Laura [03:48]: "I believe that hope is a good thing. But maybe hope with—you can't have expectations with your hope."

The discussion further explores the dichotomy presented in the film: one character believes that hope can be detrimental in confinement, while Andy Dufresne maintains unwavering hope as a means to survive.

• Jeff [06:04]: "Andy said the thing that kept him alive was there's this belief that this is not where I have to die. I am going to live."

Personal Insights on Hope and Resilience

Laura reflects on the notion that maintaining hope is vital for personal fulfillment, even if specific hopes do not materialize.

• Laura [09:14]: "I would rather even die knowing that I lived my life with hope in my heart."

She elaborates on finding joy and purpose through small, meaningful actions and relationships, drawing connections between hope and a positive mindset.

• Laura [10:20]: "Known that there's all these other children that are... making me not lose hope in all society."

Application to Community Work at Feed My Sheep

The conversation transitions to how the themes of hope relate to their work at Feed My Sheep, a community organization. Jeff articulates that maintaining hope is crucial for both staff and those they serve, especially individuals who have lost hope due to various hardships.

• Jeff [20:58]: "This struggle of whether believing there, in hoping that there is something greater and more for individual people... feeds into our daily work."

Laura emphasizes the role of community support in rekindling hope among individuals facing severe challenges, such as those dealing with homelessness or trauma.

• Laura [23:17]: "You're like that glimmer of hope to the people that walk in the door because you're serving them and feeding them."

Comparing 'Hope' and 'Wish'

The hosts delve into the nuanced differences between "hope" and "wish." They agree that while wishing often involves passive desires or comparisons, hope embodies a proactive belief in positive change.

• Jeff [29:50]: "I hope that someday this world can be as it's supposed to be and work towards that."

• Laura [30:05]: "I would kind of take it as if someone just says I wish, then that's more of a sit back agreement."

Personal Experiences with Hope and Hopelessness

Laura shares her personal journey of struggling with hopelessness, particularly through her work combating domestic minor sex trafficking. Despite witnessing pervasive suffering, she underscores the importance of actively choosing to maintain hope.

• Laura [54:10]: "Absolutely, I could have lost hope in society today because I know that there's more out there."

Jeff echoes this sentiment, highlighting that holding onto hope is not just about strength but about believing in the possibility of something greater.

• Jeff [60:17]: "It's just this belief that there's got to be something more."

Economic Success vs. Hopelessness

The hosts discuss the misconception that economic success equates to happiness. They agree that true happiness stems from mindset and relationships rather than material wealth.

• Laura [41:37]: "Money doesn't bring happiness. Yes, it brings temporary happiness... but real happiness comes from mindset and people around me."

• Jeff [43:46]: "Hope crosses all economic barriers. It is not poverty that only people that are suffering from poverty. It is middle class. It is upper class. It is super rich. Everybody."

Final Thoughts and Conclusions

As the episode concludes, Jeff and Laura reinforce the paramount importance of hope. They advocate for a proactive approach to nurturing hope within themselves and their community, acknowledging that while hope can be challenged by life’s adversities, it remains a fundamental element of the human experience.

• Jeff [64:00]: "Hope is a good thing. Maybe the bestest of things really is. And nothing good ever dies."

• Laura [67:22]: "I really liked it. So I definitely think it's something everybody should check out... there's a lot of meaning that you can take out of it."

Notable Quotes:

1. Jeff [03:48]: "Man, this struggle about trying to decide if having hope is a good thing or is it a bad thing?"
2. Laura [09:14]: "I would rather even die knowing that I lived my life with hope in my heart."
3. Jeff [23:51]: "The easier of the two camps to live in is there is no hope. This is just the world and it sucks."
4. Laura [41:37]: "Money doesn't bring happiness. Yes, it brings temporary happiness... but real happiness comes from mindset and people around me."
5. Jeff [64:00]: "Hope is a good thing. Maybe the bestest of things really is. And nothing good ever dies."

Conclusion

Episode 62 of The Collage Podcast offers a profound exploration of hope, using The Shawshank Redemption as a lens to examine its role in human resilience and community support. Through thoughtful dialogue, Jeff and Laura highlight the significance of maintaining hope despite life's challenges, emphasizing that hope is both a personal and communal asset that transcends economic and social boundaries. This episode serves as an inspiring reminder of the enduring power of hope in fostering positive change and sustaining the human spirit.

Transcript

[Jeff]

Welcome to the Collage podcast and thank you for making us a part of your day. If you enjoy the podcast, please like, rate and subscribe. Hey, we want to welcome y'all to another edition of the Kalaz podcast today. We are excited. We're always excited. But we are extra excited today because we are going round two. This is round two with Laura, and last time she was here, if you can remember, we were all over the map, which was good. Interesting discussion. But Laura had a homework assignment, so we are going to put her on the spot today. The podcast is to see if Laura watched a single movie that we asked her to watch out of the podcast. She doesn't know what we're going to talk about. If you listen to our last conversation, we don't know what we're going to talk about, but we do today, and I think it does matter. This is an interesting discussion out there. So, Laura. Okay, Good to have you.

[Laura]

Hi.

[Jeff]

Thanks. Okay, so today, what goofy homework assignment did we give for you to do at our last podcast?

[Laura]

You wanted me to watch Shawshank Redemption.

[Jeff]

We did. And so we said, hey, Laura needs to watch Shawshank Redemption. Bobby needs to watch Shawshank Redemption. And we will make it clear for everybody out there, Laura watched Shawshank Redemption, and Bobby did not watch the movie. So he dropped the ball on that one. But he is still here recording this. So the conversation we are going to have today is going to center off of a concept. It's going to center off of that movie because I think it is a unbelievably good movie about humanity, about mankind, about struggles. I think it's. It's really good. And so we're going to kind of center off that and see where it goes and see if it relates. And what I thought would be interesting because this is not gender, but to what to look and to see how we might see the movie differently. Okay. To see, but. Well, we see the same things in the movie and then these same concepts, or maybe we see them differently. Okay. And then how it relates to our individual lives, individual people that we come in contact, why the topic is. Is relevant. So fair.

[Laura]

Fair.

[Jeff]

We start from there, so we will go from that point and see where it goes. And for all of you, I'm not going to be the movie spoiler person and tell you every absolute minute of the movie of Shawshank Redemption. Okay. Will not. And I'm not even saying that I'm advocating everybody to go watch the movie because it's pretty brutal movie and certain aspects of it. So I'm not, you know, don't want to watch it. Don't watch it. You want to go watch it, Go watch it. Great. Okay. Do think it's a good movie, but. Okay, how about we begin? So, Laura, I'm going to ask you. This is the one on that movie that just. Just gets me over and over and over as I think the whole movie is this struggle about trying to decide if having hope is a good thing or is it a bad thing? Okay, so tell me. That's kind of. Did. Did you. Or what would you see the movie that you'd go, man, this was my thing. I took away from it? What is that?

[Laura]

Oh, I mean, I. I believe that hope is a good thing.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Laura]

But like I was saying, maybe I think, you know, hope with. You can't have expectations with your hope. I think, personally, I think. I don't know, it's kind of a tough one. But I know you're saying in the movie and in the movie they say maybe hope isn't always a good thing to have, but I believe it is. But again, with the expectation, because a lot of people can let you down.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Laura]

I don't know. It's kind of a tough one, I think, for me to wrap my head around.

[Jeff]

How about we try to first define. Tell me, what does hope mean to you?

[Laura]

H. I feel like that's probably something hard for me to explain.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Laura]

Trying to think how I could put it into words. I don't know.

[Jeff]

Fair. Okay, so, like, like, I. So there's. Because it's such a big, vague word. So I would say, oh, it's about this struggle with hope. Okay, so is hope. I hope I win the lottery, which I don't care about that. But that's a sentence that somebody could say. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? You could go. That's irrelevant in the host, maybe, but that somebody could hope I won the lottery. Okay. And you would also say somebody who is. They would say prisoners of war, people that have gone to, like, even. I don't know for sure because we haven't seen the literature yet out of the people that have been held hostage by Hamas. For all these people that survive very difficult, difficult, horrific moments that are over a long duration, they will always come to a place. And it would be something like, I was determined and I would. I hoped I would see my family one more time or I would hope that I would get to see one more sunset. And I was determined that, okay, that's a different kind of hope. And so I guarantee you, we come to those people that survived and they go, I was hopeful that I would hear my son's voice one more time, and I would not give up on that belief.

[Laura]

Yeah. Hanging on to a belief of something better. Something better is going to come. Something good will come. You deserve more, whatever it is, whatever situation you're in, I think.

[Jeff]

Because I would think that's a good. A good launching place for hope. Okay. It's the belief that maybe there's something better that. That I. Not. Entitled would be the wrong word, but there's something greater out there. There's. There's this thing that. That is out there for me that's even more than I can physically see at this moment. Okay. And so in that movie, they were. It's a prison movie. There's people trapped in prison that were there for life terms. It's not a judicial mov. But they're trapped in this place that they're never going to get out of. Okay. And one character, his theory is that what we just spoke of, this belief that there is something greater, there's something better for you out there, is what kills you when you're confined in jail. So he's like, he said, just go ahead and accept it. You're never going to leave here. You're going to die here. And this is the lot that you have been given. This belief that something greater is going to come is what's going to kill you.

[Laura]

Yeah. And that's such a weird, I guess, a tough mindset, I think, because if you don't have hope, then what do you have to hang on to?

[Jeff]

Agreed.

[Laura]

And then you kind of. If you lose all hope in a situation like that, I don't know, then what do they have to look forward to each day?

[Jeff]

So it. This is the, like, so for me, interesting struggle. Okay. So, like that. There's two different camps. Is. There's one. If you believe this is all I'll ever have, I will have no more. I deserve nothing more. And there's nothing more for me. Far easier to survive. I could live a long duration like that of going, yeah, this is just. Is what it is. And I don't. Nothing better is ever going to happen. And this is just my sentence. Okay. I might be able to survive. Okay. And then I put these things around me that helped me survive with that mentality. The other character, Andy, said the thing that kept him alive was there's this belief that this is not where I have to die. Yeah, I am. I'm going to live and there's going to be this place I'm going to go and I'm going to be free and I'm going to live. Any work towards that. So then other thing we're going to look at is in that movie, it wasn't solely enough that the character Andy Dufresne. Okay, that's the one who believed hope at this. It wasn't solely enough that he believed that he was entitled to something greater. His life was a slow and steady progression towards attaining that hope that was keeping him alive.

[Laura]

Yes. So that where I guess, I think hope is important. I would rather even die knowing that I lived my life with hope in my heart. And then, you know, whatever I was hopeful for, whatever I thought of, if it didn't come true, that's fine. Right at the end of, at the end of my life because I, I, I feel like that's where we kind of get back to the whole perspective thing. I can live with hope in my heart and choose to have hope that good things are going to happen, that there is something more out there. If, if I choose the other thing, then I'm, you know, with no hope, then, then I'm sad or I'm, I'm finding bad things to focus on or whatever it is. So even if my hope is just me just, you know, making something up and thinking that something is going to be good, it's a, it's a more positive way of kind of attacking this life because life is here. We're going to live this life no matter what. So you're going to choose to have some hope and feel like there's going to be something more for you, but you can't get disappointed when it doesn't come.

[Jeff]

Agreed.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

So like, agreed. So like in that, in this process. So then Andy, because the, the big turning point of the movie and we're not giving anything away is you got the two characters. Because Andy, many he thought he was man and he, he was unjustly in the sentence he was given.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

He didn't deserve anything that he had. And he finally had clarity. Like the answer was right there. That, that he finally had this, that there was truth that he could get free because he didn't do this. And the person who knew the answer gets taken out of the picture because yeah, okay. It would free him and he was okay. And then out of that it was crushing to him because he was so close. So close.

[Laura]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeff]

To this hope occurring. And so they're sitting out in this and he was really, really in a dark place.

[Laura]

Yep.

[Jeff]

Okay, really dark place. And he's sitting there because this hope. And he kept going, man, somebody's going to figure out, I didn't do this. I didn't do it. It was so close, and it gets taken away. And he realized that was his only chance that way. And so they're sitting out in the yard of the jail, the two characters, and the one of them says, you know, you got to decide either get busy living or get busy dying, you know, because. And in. Andy says, you know what? You're right. And he made a decision, and he kept proactively. Like so in his. In the movie, he is microscopically, day by day by day, working in the direction of the true freedom that he deserved to live in. Okay. And then nobody knew it. He wasn't advertising it there, but he never wavered. For this is a life of. I'm called to a life of freedom. I'm called to this. That is not where I am confined to. And he was keeping working towards that. Okay. And so it kind of goes with what you're saying. Interesting to me, because. So then out of a whole other discussion we could have is Andy did make it out of that.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

If he had not was his hope for. Not because he struck. Okay. Why not?

[Laura]

Well, I. I don't know. I mean, of course, I'm not in his shoes and in that position, so I can easily say, you know, that it's. It could have been better or something. But look at just the difference that he was making in the lives of the people that he was around. He was making such a positive difference to all of these different people. So if, you know, he thought that his freedom, that was his hope, was that freedom that he deserved and that one day he would get out, even if he didn't get out. There was this great purpose in his life for him being there because of all the, you know, the differences that he did working with Library, all the different things that he was doing. So, you know, even if his hope is something different, and it turns out, you know, his life turns out to be completely different than what he was hopeful for, I guess that that's where I kind of go back in. Without this kind of expectation, we don't know what's gonna happen. But if we're living with this at least some sort of a positive mindset of having hope in something, then we're making a difference somehow with that hope. Like, he was, you know, like all the stuff that he did for all the Other guys, like you were saying, playing the music and just the different things that he was doing could have completely shifted the life and the mindset of so many guys in that prison.

[Jeff]

Right, Yeah, I agree. Okay. And so then. And this is. We're going to transition. Not yet, but so then out of that. Okay, I'll ask one more question on that. Is hope in of itself without corresponding movement towards the hope? Is it. Could we maybe agree that. Just saying, man, I hope I get well and do nothing proactively to try to help myself get well?

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Is that a good thing or is that maybe not a good thing? Is that the kind of hope we're talking about?

[Laura]

Well, I mean, no, We. We also have to do the work.

[Jeff]

We have to do something.

[Laura]

I'm a firm believer. Yes. Not just to sit back and just say, well, I hope things get better.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Laura]

Without doing the work. You know, just like with our faith, we trust in God, we trust in his plan, but he also gives us the knowledge and gives us the ability to make these changes, to do these things. So I think it kind of goes hand in hand together. It's something that you have to. You keep the hope, but then you also have to put in the work for it too. Just like he did. He did the good things that he did. He didn't just sit there in his cell and say, well, I have hope that one day things gonna get better and life is gonna get better, and then did nothing about it. He was proactively doing all these things, these positive things. You know, Ollie was in jail and, you know, working on other things, but, yeah, he was working towards something.

[Jeff]

That's right. And so out of that, I find, like, in these other things were just byproducts of the belief that there's just so much more out there. Okay. And they. Not just, but like all of these other things that was like, it was a result of his constant, unwavering belief that there was more. And it would been such a travesty that if he just would have sat in a cell and he go, yep, man, I hope someday I get out. Yeah, man, I just hope, man, this sucks. I hope. I hope. And. But instead he did. And then he also shared hope all through the process, and nobody even knew what was going on. Like, they didn't even realize the true picture of what was occurring. Okay? And then what I find beautiful. And then we're going to launch into a discussion of how this even relates to here and to us, okay? And then I love at the end, because the Character who was sort of anti hope at the end, he does get released, okay? Something happens and he gets out of jail, okay? And again, we're not talking judicial system. So if you are all anti judicial system, whatever, that's your business, okay? But he gets out, and he is. Now, he knew a commitment he made to his friend, who was Andy Dufresne, and he promised him that he would go visit a place, okay? And he needed to go to the oak tree out under this farm out in, okay, such and such a county, and to go find a rock that has no business being in that field. And underneath that rock, I've got something for you. And Andy wrote him a note. And he says this. He says, you know what? If you're reading this letter, it means you've gotten out.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

And if you have gone this far, go a little further. Yes, come and meet me. And he had left him. And he knew this place that they had dreamed of.

[Laura]

Even Andy had hoped for him.

[Jeff]

That's right.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

So then again. So then he had. He did this knowing. And he left him enough money to get it. Left a lot of money, okay? And he had hope for him that his life could be even more. And so even him, it was sustaining him that maybe Red, someday get out, and maybe he'll come to this spot, and maybe he'll find this, and maybe he'll come see. And then he does find it, and he does get this money. And he does realize, you know what? I need to finish the obligation I gave to my friend and go see him, you know? And so then he buys his. His task was to buy a bus ticket to out of Fort Hancock, Texas, into Mexico.

[Laura]

You have this whole movie memorized, so. Well, I just watched it, and I'm still kind of piecing the pieces together.

[Jeff]

I'd like to lie to everybody out there and go, well, we've both watched it the same number of times, but Jeff has probably seen Shawshank, I don't know, six, seven hundred times.

[Laura]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Jeff]

So it's a little bit different, but.

[Laura]

I still just watched it last week, so trying to remember some of these.

[Jeff]

And so, like, that it is. Because I just, like, I watched that scene over and over. And he's sitting on the bus, okay. And he's going to this place.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

And he's an old guy, and he's sitting there and he says he's writing in his journal and he says, I hope. Basically he says, I hope my friend is there waiting for me, because he doesn't know.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Like, he's hoping. I hope he's it. He said, I hope. I love this one. He said, I hope the ocean is as blue as it has been in my dreams, okay? And because he's envisioned what this place would. I hope the sand is warm under my feet, okay? And then he goes on, and he goes on, and then finally he ends with this sentence, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope the thoughts that only a free man can truly have. And you're going, oh, that's magnificent. Magnificent. Good. And so you look at that, and then he comes and they. The. The friend was, okay, we're not going to ruin the movie. But, yeah, you go. And for Andy to get to his freedom. Yeah, okay. I love the sentence that he says. What he had to do, the amount of work, the amount of years, the amount of sacrifice that even get to this moment and for him to get to the possible freedom that he climbed through a sewage pipe and over a mile in this. And like, what the guy said, I cannot even imagine the vileness and the atrocity that he crawled through to get to freedom. And I'm going, holy, What a profound sentence. And in the midst of that. So it wasn't just enough to hope. It wasn't just enough to give himself the opportunity he still had to go through this unbelievable, horrific, bad, bad, bad place, okay. To get out and to go to where he truly was called to be.

[Laura]

Yeah, okay. Yeah.

[Jeff]

And so out of it. So then that's kind of the starting point for us, because why it intrigues me so much a. It's. It's a movie, okay? So already I'm not basing my life upon a movie, okay? I think the struggle that the movie talks about, the movie is centered around, is the core essence of what goes on here every day at Feed My Sheep. It's this true struggle of whether believing there, in hoping that there is something greater and more for individual people. Because I think so many of the people we come in contact with and maybe you could even argue have rightfully come to the place that they go. I give up. There's no hope.

[Laura]

Well, but who are we to say the timing on things of. Of when things are going to get better, right? To when our. The plan for our life is for things to shift and get better. So I'm sure a lot of people that come through these doors probably have lost all hope for good reason, you know, whatever the reason is why they're here. But then also maybe people kind of turning away from them because they've been this way for whatever it is, you know, then they really start to lose hope kind of over and over and again. But then you guys are like that glimmer of hope to the people that walk in the door because you're serving them and feeding them and smiling and talking to them and giving them hopefully, that, you know, little glimmer of hope that they've lost. I would imagine if they're here, there's probably a lot of hope that's been lost in their life, but I don't know, that's where you guys do such a good job here, because you're. You're giving that to these people, and hopefully that little seed of hope that they get from here can one day, you know, turn into something bigger for them, or it just gives them maybe a thought of, you know, it's going to be okay at some point somehow, you know, or these people have hope in me, you know, maybe I'll. I'll push a little bit harder or try a little bit more or whatever it is. I mean, I know that everybody coming through here is. Has a different story, but.

[Jeff]

No, I agree on that one. And so, like, it's such an easy and easy trap. And I would even maybe venture. And we're going to go kind of into your world of what you worked with before. I think the easier of the two camps to live in. Okay. In our world. Okay. So you can. This would be. You could disagree. I think the easier of the two camps to live in is there is no hope. This is just the world and it sucks. And just go ahead and get on with it and live in this terrible grayness.

[Laura]

Yeah. What a.

[Jeff]

What a.

[Laura]

What a horrible way to live.

[Jeff]

I think so, too. Yeah, I think so, too.

[Laura]

And even if you just have. I. I tell myself, even if I just have delusional hope.

[Jeff]

What is delusional?

[Laura]

Well, I don't know. I think. But even if I'm living in this delusion of something's going to get better and then it doesn't, at least I was living in happiness in that time period of having this hope that to me, that's my kind of. You know, I tell myself that, like, even if it's just this big delusion that I'm making up in my head that things are going to get better, things are better. Whatever it is, that's okay, too. Agreed to me.

[Jeff]

But can. Can you imagine not living that way? I can't.

[Laura]

No. I mean, I say no, but. Yeah, there. There's been plenty of times in my life where I feel like I didn't have hope.

[Jeff]

Tell me about that. What does that mean?

[Laura]

I don't know. Where you just, you don't think things are going to get better, so then you don't really have hope. I guess there, you know, you just, just think things are going to stay bad or cycles will stay the same or. But you know, like, like we were saying, it's also takes work from me. I don't know. I mean, there's, I could give a million different examples. I'm sure we all could.

[Jeff]

But then why did you not stay there?

[Laura]

I, you know, I don't know. I, I, that's kind of where it goes back to when I was saying. I don't know if I was saying this on the last one. There was never like just a, a moment of clarity in my head where I was like, this is it. Things are changing. I just slowly started making that change. And with each little change that I made then I maybe saw more of a glimmer of hope.

[Jeff]

That's right.

[Laura]

That then encouraged me to make another little change and then another little change. So kind of my, my life change and my shift in perspective and all these things was like slowly, step by step by step. I didn't just say, this is it, you know, this, look at me, I'm making this massive life change and everything is going to be perfect from here on out. It just was a step up and then, you know, fall backwards sometimes and then another step up. But having that hope, I guess, kind of giving, seeing these little glimmers of hope, you know, in the future probably pushed me more to then, you know, do more. Yeah, do a little bit more. Make another, A little bit more of a change in my life.

[Jeff]

And what I love, like in the, the Shawshank, is that Andy is in a prison cell. He gets free by digging a hole through a wall that took years.

[Laura]

You weren't going to give this away.

[Jeff]

Crud. I know that's a different movie, but like, so we won't go that. But it was this small process. And actually, yeah, it happened out of pure fluke. When they play it back at the end is he was throwing a little tantrum.

[Laura]

Oh, yes.

[Jeff]

And he noticed a little piece of the wall broke because the plaster was bad.

[Laura]

Yes. Yeah.

[Jeff]

That was the moment that he realized I have a chance.

[Laura]

And that was his little, you know, little by little, little by little, he.

[Jeff]

Was so it wasn't necessarily him that he was so much smarter than the circumstance at hand or so much stronger. Okay. Something just happened to give him a tiny, tiny microscope, and he's like, huh?

[Laura]

And that's where you kind of. To me, you know, you pay attention to the little things. Are you. Are you noticing these little things? Or are you so set in this negative mindset and having no hope that you can't see any good thing that's happening around you? And I think that happens to so many people. They just get in this. Whether it's a victim mindset or just a negative mindset, and then there's all these little tiny things that are around them that are happening in their life or around them or to other people or whatever it is, but they're just so focused on this negative mindset and having no hope that they don't see it. They're letting all these things pass them by. Because you can even find hope in someone else's life, you know, just. Just like him kind of in the movie. But I think if you. If you open your eyes a little bit, I think that's probably one of the first biggest steps is just to say, hey, I'm gonna try to recognize the good things around me that give me hope. You know, I. We can find hope from someone else's life. You know, look, this. This changed for them, or this happened, or look at this good thing that's happened. I think once you kind of get on that mindset, then you start to see, and then you can really, you know, you see the good things, and then that's really, I think, where your hope can kind of build at that point, because you're recognizing some good things. Just like, I'm a little bit different. But just to watch your excitement and talking about this movie, even though you've seen it an absurd amount of times.

[Jeff]

That'S a little weird. I get it. It's a little bit. Okay.

[Laura]

But just your excitement in the movie and the things that you've taken from it, rather than just watching this movie, like, oh, this was a cool movie about this guy, you have taken. You really have taken the deeper meaning of this movie because you've chosen to see that and that you're just so excited talking about it. That's awesome. Because even just you watching this movie and you getting excited about what you saw in this movie probably also gives you a little bit of hope just from a movie, because obviously you've watched it so many times because you love it, you know? Yeah, yeah, but it. But it's you. It's us kind of recognizing different things around us. Maybe it's something in a movie you know, because that story is being told either on someone's life or that came from someone creating that story. I don't know, I just, I just think kind of recognizing certain things also really builds our hope.

[Jeff]

I'd agree. Let me ask you. Okay, so this, this popped in my head and that's, that's scary. But. Okay, is there a difference in the sentence I wish and I hope?

[Laura]

I don't know, I mean, I would kind of, I guess I would kind of take it as if someone just says I wish, then that's more of a sit back agree of like, meh, I wish this would happen to me. Because most of the time. Well, not most of the time. A lot of times when you hear somebody say I wish, it's like, well, I wish I had a nicer house like they did. Or it's almost kind of like a comparison of I wish I had. I wish I had what they had. I wish I had your perspective. I wish I saw what you saw when you saw that movie rather than kind of like, oh, you know, I hope that one day I make a lot more money and can have a beautiful house like that. Or I hope that one day I. That's how I personally see it. That I guess that would be my difference.

[Jeff]

No, I'd agree.

[Laura]

Which would be more of a comparison in a sense.

[Jeff]

Yeah. I would say like that if I heard somebody say, oh, I wish my life was good. Yeah, wampum, yeah, my go, my gosh, grow up. Like. And I'm not saying that way, but yeah, you know, okay. I have somebody like, he comes, he has been relationships, they, they end at times. But he has been in a marital relationship that has ended, I don't know, six years ago. And if I go see him today, he will say the sentence to me today. Okay. Oh, I just wish I had my wife back.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Hey, I hate to break it to you, but I understand that.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

But that's relationship is, it's been severed.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Okay, that's not helping you. And so like, the wish to me is just somebody sitting back there and generally turns to compare. I wish I had a truck, like so and so. I wish I had this. I wish I had that.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Hope seems to have a little bit more sting to me, you know, because like, the things I wish for, I wish I could go to such and such place again. Okay. That's one thing. I hope I am remembered as a good person. I don't wish I'm remembered as a good person. So it seems more like for Me, in my head, it's a little bit a different thing, but they're the same place. So I hope. So there's. I hope that, like. So for me, like, what I would say, like, you kind of said, this is way weird. So, a. I'm gonna start off with. I do believe the tenants and that God is who he says he is.

[Laura]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Okay. So that is my single greatest hope. That. That. And I'm not even, like, so in it. Like, what we say is, if I get to the end and I go in the box and. And I don't believe this. I believe God is who he says he is, and I believe that. But if I got in the box and I'd go, well, dad Gummet, it really wasn't what I thought it was. Okay. I wouldn't say my life was completely wasted because so many things could have occurred based on this hope of where I would like to get.

[Laura]

Yeah. I mean, imagine you're in your last days, and you know that they are your last days. And then if you weren't living with any sort of hope, then what are you kind of looking back on?

[Jeff]

Right. So there's. There it is. Yeah, Right there. You just. So can you imagine, like, that I've gone to enough people on the final moment, like the. And I would even say this. I'm gonna say the weird sentence. Those that are given the gift that they know the finite num. Which we should all have that clarity because we do have the finite number. We don't know it, but our days are set. Okay. That. Those that I've gone to. When I worked at the church, you would go visit somebody in the hospital, and they were on hospice, and they're not making it another two years. They're not making it another six months. Okay. They are there on a finite number. I've yet to see one of those people that are like, wish. If I could just wish I could win the lottery in the next week. Gabe. They hope. I hope this. And then. Can you imagine trying to go on your final days and have. I have hope for nothing?

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Horrible.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Okay. And so then out of that place is. I do think people can get in such a bad place inside here that they're living at that place.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Okay. Obviously. So I would say in that. Obviously you could go to that. And I'm not going to go down that road. But people do take their lives because they have lost all hope.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Okay. And so you go, there's nothing even worth living anymore. And I deserve this penalty of Here. And they give up completely and give up hope. Give up hope.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

And so then out of this movie, it is what. So then it's that I see people, and I. I'm not the assessor of the hope parameter, but then you can see people that. That. And. And maybe they didn't give up hope. They could believe that hope was completely taken from them.

[Laura]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Okay. So, like, then. So it's not. I'm just sitting there. Somebody sits back, go. Okay. Yep. Bobby took all my hope today. I'll never get it back. Okay. It's possible that somebody could reach a place that they believe that time and time again. These little. I. When I was a kid, I loved my mom so much, but she got taken from me. And then I went to the next family, and I really believed this was going to be the answer. It got taken from me. Then I got in this relationship, and I really believe this person was good. And I had this feeling, and they started trafficking me, and I really had this, and I really had this. And next thing you know, they're like, I have nothing to even hope for anymore because I can't stand to be hurt like that again. And so then that was. The character would come to. He was like, yeah, if you get hurt in this place.

[Laura]

Yes.

[Jeff]

If you have something you hope for that you're never going to get, it just hurts you.

[Laura]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, right. I'm sure most of us have been through some really things where people have tried to steal the hope from us. But again, I feel like it always goes back to the mindset just of, you know, we could all say, I've been in a failed relationship. I've been in. You know, this person has hurt me. This person has hurt me. Every time I get into a relationship, somebody's cheating on me or hitting me or, you know, whatever it is. But if you. If you let them take that hope from you, then what do you have?

[Jeff]

Okay, agree. So then that was the sentence he says in the movie. Like, he's like, you know what? No, hold on. They put me in solitary confinement. Like, so they says, no, he paid a punishment for this.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

He says, man, how did you make it through that? He says, because I can't take this. There's a place inside of us that nobody can take from me.

[Laura]

Which. Which I. I do believe that it is harder for some people. I will always say, I know we're all wired very differently. Everybody's brain is different just in how they take things or if they're struggling with any Sort of mental health or anything. And it's harder for some people to hold on to that hope, especially when it's taken from them over and over again. But. And I don't know the right answer, you know, to solve everything for everybody. I do think that most people at, you know, at least lose some of their hope or get it taken away and sometimes temporarily. And then that's when people really give up, is they have temporarily lost their hope. Like we were talking about with me last time, or people that have given up. People that I've known was just having this conversation with my mom the other night. We were talking about all the different death that I had faced with friends when I was younger.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Laura]

And there. There were a couple suicides, There was a couple murders, but just kind of. Yeah. And how you kind of almost lose hope with things like that. But. And even, you know, with the suicides, that I feel like that was them temporarily losing their hope because I feel like it could come back. But it's just in that weak moment, we get there. We all can get there, I imagine, you know, where we feel like all hope is lost. And it breaks my heart for people, you know, when that happens, because I, I, you know, like, I look back on my life and think, if I would have taken my life, look at all that I have experienced and all that I have gone through now, you know, and it does get better, but it's having that hope, having that tiny little glimmer of hope. I don't know. I. Yeah. I mean, there's. Hope is obviously very important.

[Jeff]

I agree. And so then out of that, let me ask you this. And we're just. We're just talking. So we're not the experts on hope. Do you think it's possible for a person to be hopeless.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Permanently hopeless, or. Tell me.

[Laura]

Hopelessly in love.

[Jeff]

Oh, okay.

[Laura]

Cheesy.

[Jeff]

Hold on. What is that? Hopelessly. Oh, what is that skating song? Olivia Newton John. She. What did. She said?

[Laura]

I don't know why.

[Jeff]

Hopelessly devoted to you.

[Laura]

Yes.

[Jeff]

That was it.

[Laura]

Yeah. That's what it is. Okay. I. I mean, I'm sure maybe I. I could say yeah. To. To just completely lose all hope and it not come back. Maybe. But. But then that's where I say people who are struggling with mental health issues, because I don't understand what they're struggling with. So I don't want to say. I don't ever want to say, well, no, everybody can get hope back if you. This, this and this. You know, if I start to Lose hope in life. I'd go to the mountains or I, you know, do something, or I'll actively do something. I, I can't say that everyone can just up and do that and feel better. For me, of course it feels better. And I can tell you all day long, well, this is what you should do to get that hope back to, you know, read the Bible, go to church, go to the mountains, get outside in nature, go for a walk. That, that doesn't, it doesn't mean it's going to work for everybody.

[Jeff]

That's right.

[Laura]

Um, I, I, I don't know. I can imagine some people can fully be hopeless, but that's where we, as a community, I think, come in to play is even if we, some see someone that is just completely hopeless, whether it is their mindset, their mental illness, whatever it is that they're struggling with, or, you know, they just keep getting pounded over and over and over again with just all these negative things. Like that's where, you know, they've got someone in the community or someone somehow or like, feed my sheep that still is going to smile at them every time they walk in the door. That maybe will give them a tiny glimmer of hope. They may not take it and soak it in and apply it to their life and mindset. Maybe, but I don't know, at least kind of getting a little bit of an outside hope, I guess. Okay, how does that make sense?

[Jeff]

Next question. In the same room. Okay. Because we're staying in this place.

[Laura]

Yes. Okay.

[Jeff]

Okay. Is it possible that you can have overwhelming economic success and all these things that would be, oh, my gosh, you've, you've won the wish list of life. Oh, man, they're rich. You got this life. You got this life. In this life, can that person still be hopeless?

[Laura]

Oh, absolutely.

[Jeff]

How? They've gotten everything.

[Laura]

I've seen it with a lot of people that I have known in my lifetime that have a lot of money.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Laura]

That really struggle. You know, it's, they say money doesn't bring happiness. Yes. It brings temporary happiness, you know, as you're driving your nice car and in your nice house. But there's, you know, yes, it's, but it's a different type of happiness. It's not, I don't think it's a full, complete happiness. There's so much more with life. I would, you know, personally, me, of course I want to have a lot of money. And of course I would love to have, you know, a house in the mountains in Montana or whatever, but I know that that doesn't bring total happiness. What brings happiness is my mindset. What brings happiness is the people that are around me. Can I trust the people around me? Are they good people around me? Are they positive influences? Are they. You know, all that stuff coming together and if you've got people that have a lot of money and have all these material things, that does not bring happiness. It does. It brings like a. Like a surface level happiness to your life. That's not where the real happiness comes from. We all know that. Right. I mean that's. I would think my happiness doesn't come from the things that I own. Yes. It's great. Yes. I like my clothes. I get to buy or my, you know, my car. My van. I love my van.

[Jeff]

Very nice.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

We'll go on record that I get.

[Laura]

To travel and I love all that stuff and that makes me happy. But in the big grand scheme of things in life, that's not true happiness.

[Jeff]

It's not your hope.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Now and so that in this that we get on clarity for everybody out there. Because this is I would say and this is going to be a Jeff sent. But hope crosses all economic barriers. It is not an. It's not poverty that only people that are suffering from poverty. Not only people homeless. It is middle class. It is upper class. It is super rich. Everybody. This the struggle with what true hope and life and meaning in depth and all of these things because. But is a struggle that we all have. So wishing is compared. Okay. You can wish. I wish I just had a little bit more money. If I could just make X amount of dollars, I'm going to be happy.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Okay. Then I'll get to go to see the Amazon. Okay. Or whatever. So that's cool.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Hope is a deeper deal. And so what intrigues me on that one. And I would say. Well, I would say two. And they kind of go hand in hand and we won't go to the other one which is being truly alone. Not having community or belonging is devastating.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Okay. And then it. Let's pretend you were in that place. And then the next one that goes in this factor is you lose hope.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Things could get better. It's just you got to so out of that. And I'm like, you were not. This isn't surface level. Oh, you seem to be sad. You need to get hope. You seem to be had said. You need to get hope. You're not happy. You need to get hope. We're not saying that. I'm saying there is so much Depth and weight to the world and what is occurring there in that world and what we're saying in hope. It's a good thing.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

And it's a, and it's a active verb. So then when I go to bed at night and I would have two choices, I go, man, I wish the world didn't suck so bad. And I go to bed and I'm like, oh, man, I wish women were never treated the way they are and they aren't abused like they are. Okay. Okay. That's one word.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

I could also wake up the next morning and go, I hope that someday this world can be as it's supposed to be.

[Laura]

Yes.

[Jeff]

And work towards that.

[Laura]

Yeah. It's the thought of obviously something better.

[Jeff]

Something better.

[Laura]

Keeping that, I don't know, just keeping the thought process. I think hope and joy go kind of hand in hand. Like keeping the hope and then finding joy in the little things I think are so important. Like I, I, the other day I came across a photo. We had gone to Honduras for a mission trip with my work. We have now partnered with this organization in Honduras. And so they'll, they'll send, you know, I'll go out there. And so we were there and I saw this picture of the restrooms that I had taken when we had gone to this little schoolhouse. It was a little two room schoolhouse. We were helping them set up electricity so they had a light in there. And then their bathrooms were these two things that were built with cinder blocks, but it was totally open and it was just a hole in the ground. But it was this open, like beat down kind of cinder block, partially closed. The open part even facing the school. And, and I, that something about that, I mean, the bathroom just really got to me. And then just to look and turn and see all the kids just playing and having fun and having a blast. And to me that was them just. I don't know if you would use the word hope, but just finding joy in their circumstance and where they were, they were so happy and they were playing and kicking and then, you know, they have to get water from the, the little water setup kind of fountain that they've, that the organization I'm sure had put out there because they were out in the mountains. But just, you know, that's, that's them kind of knowing that that's their circumstances. And it could also be that they, they haven't even experienced anything different. This is all they know. But still just the happiness, you know, that they found in their circumstances was huge. So again, I Always go back to the mindset of what, you know, whether you're in a really broke position, you know, you don't have a lot of money wherever you are, or you have money or you don't have something. I think just a lot of it is your mindset. If you're just. If, you know. Yeah. If you've lost all hope and everything and, and can't find joy in anything and you're, you know, if you have nothing, I mean, there's. There's still. I guess I'm trying to say there's still so much more to be thankful for in this life and to find joy through in this life than money, than your circumstances. Because like we were saying, if I could know somebody that has tons of money, anything they ever want to buy, they could buy. But then they don't have those relationships. They don't have that trust, they don't have that true love. They don't have whatever it is. And then you see people that really, you know, materialistically, they have nothing, but they're so hopeful and full of joy. I love that because to me that's. They've got it right. Yes, of course. No matter what, it doesn't mean that you don't have joy, that you don't have hope. If you still are going to get down about things, you know, of course we're going to still get down about things. But I don't know. I don't know. I feel like. I feel like I always go off, I'll start talking about one thing and then it like branches in a million different directions. And then I don't know if anybody's keeping up with me or it just. In my head it's making sense and then it's not as it's coming out.

[Jeff]

But this is such a confusing thing as well. Okay, but I'm proud of. Because we have stayed fairly solid on topic. Decent. We've been wandered off, but we've stayed on this hope deal and I. So. And we're going to come to this place, okay? And this is, this is truth. I guarantee it. Well, maybe even in this room, somebody who's listening to this is going, man, forget that. I don't have any hope. Yeah, they maybe are surviving. They maybe are even fine with the cell that they are confined. This is just my sentence. I'm going to serve out this sentence. My life will be this great. That's just what I deserved. And maybe some of them, maybe some of the sentences in the jail where they were, maybe they earned Those sentences. And that's the time they had to do. So we do have. Okay, we're not going down that road, whatever. But we're talking a different deal. So that person. Okay, let's just pretend. Okay, you're talking to me and I'm like, hey, Laura, there is nothing worth hoping for. Or there's somebody's in such a place.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

That they've given up on hope.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

And everything. Every time they've tried to hope in something, it's taken away. It's taken away, you know. Oh, yeah. And in whether they had a lot or they had a little, or whether they've just accepted this life. Maybe they got a lot of money and they just miserable in their existence, but they got a whole lot. And they go do this. And they're like, just, this is what I got to do. I don't really have any hope that anything can ever change. Nothing is going to get better. This is just how it is.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Okay, what do you tell that person right now? They're sitting right here and you go, okay. And you're going to tell them what? Why should they believe anything? Why should they hope anything? I'm sitting here and I'm telling you, Laura, matter of fact, hope is a bad thing because it just sets me up for more and more failure and hurt. Why would I set myself up for that? I'll just settle for this. Why do I not just stay there?

[Laura]

Because you're at that point, I feel like then you're setting an expectation and preparing for the, you know, I guess already saying that the worst is going to happen before it is. So then you're choosing to live and of course. But you're choosing to live in this negative mindset. So I don't know. I mean, I don't know what I would really tell somebody to try to get them to fix it, other than you've got to shift your mindset.

[Jeff]

Why should they not give up?

[Laura]

Well, because there's always something more. There's always something more. And I can't say I don't know what's going to happen in Jeff's life in the future. I don't know. But all I can say for me is I can look back on my past and I can say all these times where I feel like I was losing hope, where I could have gone back and said, you know what? I've been in all these relationships, and everybody wants to hurt me, everybody's gonna cheat on me, they're gonna hit me, they're gonna verbally Abuse whatever it is they're gonna do. Whatever it is. I have lost all hope in a relationship now. You know, I mean, for the time being, I, I do choose to stay single, so there's that. But I haven't lost all hope and love. I mean, I, I cry at every single Hallmark movie. I, I am so. It's so bad. I watch them all over the holidays because I have not lost hope and love in general.

[Jeff]

Okay?

[Laura]

I have.

[Jeff]

What does that.

[Laura]

Temporarily paused. What do you mean? What does that mean?

[Jeff]

What does it.

[Laura]

Haven't lost all hope and love like, Because I see it all around me.

[Jeff]

What does it, what does it look like?

[Laura]

I don't know, just happiness, commitment, people being good to other people, people making the choice to work through hard things together. Just, I think all those things. So I find my hope. So let's say if we're talking about hope in relationship, obviously, I, if I'm just comparing Laura's relationships, I'm not seeing a lot of hope, okay? But if I'm looking outwardly and I'm looking at all these other people that I see, that I know, that I love that are in these relationships where, you know, they're loving each other, they're caring for each other, they're gentle with each other, whatever it is, I find my hope through their life. So I, I, but again, that's, I think that's a perspective thing. That's a. How are you going to choose to look at that? I could sit back and say, well, I've lost all hope and love because all my relationships have failed. Look at me now. You know, I'm single. And again, yes, I'm choosing to stay single. I've been on my own, really. I think it's been 11 years. And I'm choosing to stay this way and I'm very happy in this spot that I'm in. But, but again, I have not, I mean, I haven't lost all hope and love. I just. Because I see it in other places. Just like also the trafficking thing kind of how we were initially, I think, introduced. I worked for years helping fight against domestic minor sex trafficking.

[Jeff]

That's right.

[Laura]

And talk about an area of this world in society that can make you lose hope there. So, you know, kids are being trafficked and used and hurt and abused from infants to adults. Infants. So if, if, if, if we're going to lose hope here. Absolutely. I could have lost hope in this entire world by being involved in that organization and fighting against that. Because seeing it and hearing it and talking about These stories over and over and over again. Because I would hold presentations in town. I did them, I think every like four to six weeks, I would hold a presentation to pastors, doctors, to community, whatever it is. And then I would get phone calls all the time, all throughout town of local stories of people or hear local stories or have people reach out to me or whatever it is. And at that point, yeah, I mean, absolutely, I could have lost hope in society today because I also felt like sometimes I felt like I was running around town when I was really deep in this organization. There were days where I felt like I was running around town, flailing my arms around, screaming, just saying, please, someone help these kids. And then everybody's too busy, you know, everybody's kind of turning their head, or I'm going into the police station and they got a stack of papers and nobody can help or whatever it is. At that point, yeah, I feel like you can absolutely lose hope. But I have to make that choice to not let that let me lose hope in all society.

[Jeff]

Right.

[Laura]

I have to do the work internally and truly just make that choice and saying, I'm not going to let that let me lose hope. Because it could easily be done. Watching things like that happen and hearing things like, just like you guys hear, you know, y'all see just hardships day in and day out here, really sad stories of families and people and kids and all these things, it could. It could get you to lose hope. And in stories or in, like, you know, the community maybe not helping enough or whatever it is, we can all lose hope. Whatever we're facing. Just, you know, like the. The trafficking thing, When I said I was working there, I mean that. I don't know, you just have. I just had to make the effort to just say, I'm not going to allow this to happen. I'm not going to allow this to lose hope. With the relationship, with the trafficking, whatever it is, I am not going to lose hope in this life all, like, fully, because I know that there's more out there.

[Jeff]

That's right.

[Laura]

If I'm only focusing on these negative things that are in front of me, of course I'm going to lose hope. But I'm focusing on the negative thing and what can I do? How can I help it? How can I approach this whatever it is, or I have to walk away from it, whatever it is. But then I also am still trying to see the good that is also happening around me, which helps me not lose my hope. And of course, my faith, obviously my faith is number One. But separate from that, it is finding the, you know, looking for joy in the little things or whatever it is. Knowing that also there are all these other children, you know, that are. That people are able to save or that are doing good or whatever it is. It's just. To me, it's looking at the bigger picture. Like when I'm. When I say I go to the mountains and I just feel so overwhelmed and I'm just so happy, and it just brings me so much joy. It's the. It's. It's just looking at this huge, overwhelming place, you know, that to me, it's like backing up and looking at the bigger picture of things. That's what makes me so happy. Like, I could sit and focus in the mountains, like, oh, I'm so small and I am nothing, and I'm, you know, look at me, so tiny. But instead I'm looking back at the bigger picture, like, wow, look at how amazing this is. I don't know. I just think that we could all. We all have the potential to lose hope. We just have to actively make the decision to say, I'm not going to.

[Jeff]

That's right.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

And so I would agree 1000%. Okay. Even I'd like to believe. I'm very positive, hopeful. I have been in places that you're like, I give up.

[Laura]

Yeah, I give up.

[Jeff]

Yeah, Everybody. I mean, I would, but just even in those moments, it's not even necessarily a true. Ah, you know what? No, I'm not going to give up because, oh, this is so great. No, it's simply. There's got to be more.

[Laura]

Yes.

[Jeff]

It's got to be better.

[Laura]

The belief that there is more.

[Jeff]

Just this belief.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

And out of this, you know, and. And that. That this world that we live in on both sides of it, this is not the only world that we have to live in.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

I do hope and I believe proactively, like I do. I believe this. I will die on this one. Okay. That I do have the hope that if this community truly loved on each other in the way that it's supposed to, we could profoundly change lives in ways that we can't even imagine.

[Laura]

Yes. Yes.

[Jeff]

Okay. So do I. So, yeah. You would go, oh, if you're doing a psychological analysis on Jeff. Okay. Half of what I do is just this. I loved what you said way back when. A delusional belief in hope. And I desire that I never, ever am cured of this delusional belief and this hope of what the world could be and in it, that we Are we Are. Do. I don't just wish the world could be better. I hope. And then I am slowly doing. I don't even see many days anything of progress, but I'm trying. And I do not lose this unwavering deal. And I keep this delusion going.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

And to go out of it. So it's not a strength sometimes that gets us out of these dark places. I'm just stronger than some. It's just this belief that there's got to be something more.

[Laura]

Yeah. I mean, and like I was saying to the, you know, your last days that you're here, you know, that you're passing away, and say, you've got. You know, you're on your last day and you know it. You look back and say, well, I was. I was always very poor, but I. You know, I always had this hope that I would make more money and I would do better, I'd find a better job. But I didn't. I don't imagine that weighing very heavy at the end of your life, is it you. It instead said, you know, I. We stayed. I stayed poor. I stayed without a lot of things, but I always had the hope that there was something more that was coming. And so I lived a positive life. And I feel happy and I feel complete. I feel whole. I feel things were good in my life because I kept this hope. Maybe everything didn't turn out exactly like I was hoping, hoping it would, but it's okay because I was. I was happy and I was focusing on what could be, you know, and. And. Or I found joy in, you know, maybe it didn't happen to me, but it happened to my friend. You know, look. Look at what happened in her life and how wonderful that was. You know, maybe it didn't work out for me the way that it did for her, but I found hope and joy in other things in my life. And so I'm. I'm happy. I just. I can't imagine, you know, it being your last days. And then just thinking, you know, I don't know, I'm not there yet, but just kind of thinking, well, you know, didn't get what I was.

[Jeff]

Like, I'm gonna be on my death.

[Laura]

That car.

[Jeff]

I wanted be on my deathbed and go, man, I was hoping to become the manager of the custodial department, and I'm still just a custodian. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I can't see that being my last deal or I wish I would have had more money.

[Laura]

Yeah, that's where we got to focus on other things, I think, you know, just other people. Yeah.

[Jeff]

Hope. So out of this, I thought we did a decent job. So we're going to do on this one. We've tackled it because you ended it well. And out of that, if anybody out there is listening, okay, we're going to say this simple thing where we're going to both come to and I'm going to say this. I've got a new word is delusional hope. But we are going to say for everybody out there, hope is a good thing. Maybe the bestest of things really is. And nothing good ever dies.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

So even if you are in that place right now, that hope is a four letter word, just like other bad four letter words.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Like man. Okay. We're not going to sit here in front of you and say, oh, golly, gonna get. There's better. There is things out there and that is just simply movement, even for the sake of movement.

[Laura]

Yep.

[Jeff]

Yeah, that's it. And so sometimes on that, and the truth of it is, the only hope for any of our lives is it's in what the scripture says is that, that we were created by God and he is pleased with us. Yes, that is my hope. And he came so that we should have life and life abundantly. Yes, that is my hope.

[Laura]

Yes.

[Jeff]

And if I am delusional and believing those things, then I have delusional hope and I hope to die with that.

[Laura]

Yes.

[Jeff]

And so what we're going to do to make it fair, okay. For Laura. So then out of this, because. And not that she's weird like me, because I have other movies that I based my whole life upon. So. Okay, so the next assignment, she is going to pick movie, book, something that is your perspective and you're going to say, oh, this one means a whole lot to me. And she's going to task Jeff with the assignment of looking at something that maybe I wouldn't be as familiar with because I said, oh, you're going to watch Shawshank because that's a man. I'm playing with the house money because I've watched it a billion times, okay. And I know it inside and out. So she may come back with me of a different topic. So the next one we're going to have, you're going to lead and I'm going to have to answer your questions about this greater life metaphor that we're looking at out of this poem, this piece of art, this story, this movie. And you're going to go and have thought about It. And then I'm going to have to come here ill prepared and you're going to say, tell me what this tells you about this and to see what we see and how we see it slightly differently.

[Laura]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jeff]

So I enjoyed our conversation. Hope is a good thing. Okay. And that was good. We stayed, Bobby, wouldn't you agree? We stayed within. Pretty decent.

[Laura]

So proud of us.

[Jeff]

I am. We did so. So. And time wise, we did decent. But out of there, everybody who's out there, just remember this truth, and it is a truth, okay, Is that every person in this world, they matter. Okay. And then we'd even say the next step in it for this world to be okay. How it is supposed to be in the world that we want to all live in. I don't even care what anything there is this world that we would all desire to live in, okay. And it's not about economic. I would say for us to possibly ever even get a glimpse of anything remotely of that. Okay. We can't just sit and wish. We have to hope with expectations that we're working towards that world.

[Laura]

Yeah. Yep, yep. I like that.

[Jeff]

And we're moving towards that. And man, one day that we would look and we'd go, man, maybe it is. Yeah, but maybe it isn't. But we are still working towards that. And then all the lives that are possibly, possibly impacted along the way. Great.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Okay, so there we go. We will have another one. At some point she's going to tell. Lori's going to say, here it is. And we're going to go forward with that. And the. The shoe is going to be on the other foot. Fair. That's a decent, fair trade. Yeah. Fair treat.

[Laura]

Well, this is good. It. It really was a really good movie. I mean, truly, I. I really enjoyed it. And I'm sure I'll watch it again.

[Jeff]

Maybe not 300 times.

[Laura]

No, but it was really good. I mean, it was. Yeah, I really liked it. So I definitely think it's something everybody should check out. But you've got to watch it with the eyes that you see it with. I love that. Just. Yeah. It's not about the deeper meaning in it. Yeah. It's not just a movie. There's a lot of meaning that you can take out of it.

[Jeff]

100%. 100%. So, everybody, hope you have a great day. And thank you for joining us again. And we are done. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Collage podcast, a production of Redcord Media. For more information on this and other podcasts, please visit redcordmedia.org.