Navigating Lent: A Journey of Growth

Summary

The Collage Podcast
Host: Feed My Sheep
Episode: Navigating Lent: A Journey of Growth
Date: March 5, 2026

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Overview

This episode explores the complexities of the Lenten journey as experienced through goal-setting in spiritual, personal, and professional arenas. The hosts and guests discuss the deeper motivations and challenges behind practicing Lent—not just as a checklist of religious activities, but as a nuanced and often difficult journey toward spiritual growth and self-understanding. Drawing on personal stories and real-world analogies (like sports and business), the conversation examines what makes spiritual goals uniquely hard, the dangers of self-criticism and judgment from others, and the foundational truth of unconditional love in faith.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nature of Lent: Tasks vs. Transformation

• The episode opens by outlining the group’s Lenten practice: completing 46 daily tasks or sacrifices. The central question is whether accomplishment of all these tasks directly makes one a "better person."
• Nancy (03:33): “I don't think that it would necessarily make you any better of a person than if you hadn't... If you hadn't have done them.”
• Achievement is acknowledged, but personal transformation is not guaranteed simply by perfect completion.

2. Accomplishment, Identity, and Value

• Drawing parallels with sports (an All-American athlete) and business, the hosts discuss whether achievements define worth or character.
• Caleb (05:53): “Just because I stuck to a certain goal that I had doesn't mean that it makes me better than... Maybe I just got a better opportunity, who knows.”
• The group distinguishes between healthy pride in accomplishment and the misconception that doing more makes one fundamentally “better.”

3. Goal-Setting: Personal, Professional, Spiritual

• Personal Goals: Generally seen as easiest to accomplish (8-9/10 on a difficulty scale) because they rely mostly on self-discipline.
  • Nancy (10:47): "For the most part, personal goals would be easier than goals that weren't dependent on somebody else."
• Professional Goals: More difficult (5-6/10) due to reliance on factors outside personal control.
  • Caleb (12:57): "There's a lot more that comes into the equation than just yourself."
• Spiritual Goals: Considered the most difficult (2/10), often vague, and outside direct personal control.
  • Nancy (20:03): “It's so easy. And I'll just speak for myself. It's really easy... To get in my own way a lot with that.”

4. The Uniqueness of Spiritual Goals

• Spiritual goals (holiness, selfless service) are hard to define and even harder to measure.
  • Nancy (21:04): “It's not about me anymore.”
  • Caleb (23:17): “There's not like that clear definition of... what it looks like.”
• The hosts agree that while spiritual growth is “the most important,” it feels the most unattainable.

5. Control, Results, and Self-Worth

• Unlike physical fitness or business outcomes, spiritual “results” are largely beyond one's own control.
  • Nancy (27:15): “The net result we can't control.”
• Success in spiritual development is not measured by accomplishment but by continual pursuit and obedience—simply “showing up.”
  • Nancy (36:21): “Obedience. The only thing we can really control is to keep coming forward, keep trying.”

6. External Judgment & Internal Criticism

• Spiritual journeys are especially vulnerable to criticism from both outsiders and oneself.
• Nancy (33:17): “You will fall short and you will do it, quote, unquote, inadequately.”
• Harsh judgment—whether from church or society—can discourage people, driving self-doubt and potentially leading people away from faith practices.

7. Barriers to Spiritual Engagement

• Many avoid deepening their spiritual lives due to past wounds from religious institutions, feeling unloved by God, or their own sense of unworthiness.
  • Nancy (37:07): “They have been rejected by some religious organization somewhere. Like they've had a bad church experience.”
• The team explores both philosophical and emotional challenges in believing, “God loves me,” especially in the face of trauma or injustice.

8. Grace & The True Nature of Success in Faith

• The ultimate message: no one “passes the test” of faith by virtue, effort, or achievement. All fall short, but faith teaches that God’s love and acceptance transcend our failures.
  • Host (55:09): "There’s one heck of a curve… What we deserve is trumped in this faith journey in that Christ came and said, while you were yet sinners, Christ died for us so that we should have eternal life with Him."
• The journey isn’t about “checking boxes,” but about embracing a place of belovedness and acceptance.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Nancy (22:24): “Yes, the most important.”
• Host (24:29): “I can control what I eat to a degree. I can control what I drink to a certain degree... We would say if we're just looking at this scale, these are three components that would make up a decently healthy life.”
• Host (30:20): (on spiritual achievements): “Not me. And that's where it gets confusing.”
• Nancy (39:03): (sharing a personal anecdote) “He had been praying for God to help him to get him out of this situation. And the church said... there's nothing we can do for you. And they sent him away back to that. And he says, now if there's a God that loves me, how could he let that happen?”
• Caleb (47:40): "Just because you failed doesn't mean you didn't become better."
• Nancy (48:45): “Well, I mean, I guess it's just from my upbringing, but failure is burning in hell. Okay, at the end of the day...”
• Host (54:29): “There’s one heck of a curve… But we’re not going to even stop there because that’s flawed.”
• Host (63:50): “So complex and difficult to live in that truth.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:22 – 07:08: Defining accomplishment and self-worth through Lent tasks and sports achievements
• 08:01 – 15:14: Personal vs. professional vs. spiritual goals: Definitions & difficulties
• 20:03 – 27:15: The challenge and ambiguity of spiritual goals
• 33:17 – 37:09: External judgment, church hurt, and the impact on faith journeys
• 39:03 – 44:03: Personal stories of trauma, rejection, and questions of God’s love
• 47:40 – 55:11: The fear of failure, hell, and the difference between “earning” faith and receiving grace
• 63:47 – End: Closing thoughts on acceptance, self-critique, and the centrality of dignity and love

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Takeaways & Final Thoughts

• Spiritual growth is less about performance and more about persistence, acceptance, and grace.
• All people, regardless of achievements or failings, are worthy of love and dignity—an idea central both to Feed My Sheep’s ethos and the Christian message of grace.
• The journey is not walked alone; community and the right support can help counteract negativity and self-doubt.
• Host (67:13): “We’re always on this journey, you know, and just to see you're not alone, maybe, in your thoughts, and you're not alone.”

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Summary for New Listeners

Whether you’re religious or just contemplating the deeper parts of human experience, this episode thoughtfully and honestly unpacks how we measure growth—especially during a season like Lent. The real challenge isn't ticking off to-do lists, but embracing one’s own shortcomings, the limits of control, and the radical idea that you’re already loved, failures and all. If you’ve ever felt weighed down by expectations (from within or without), this episode is an invitation to begin again, with honesty and grace.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Hey, we want to welcome everybody to another edition of the collage podcast. We thank you for being here. We're excited to do this again because that means one thing and one thing only, that we're still alive. Okay, so if we're recording this, that we are still here, and there's a plan and a purpose for us to be here today. So we will get started. We have been talking a little bit. Doesn't matter if you heard or not. So we are now in the middle or the front side of middle of the Lent type season because we mentioned some of the other. Whether you heard them or not, some of the other podcasts are kind of explaining what Lent is in this journey, what it means on the church calendar, and that we're in the middle of this Lent experience where we're asking people in the community to do a little things, some things extra or give up some things. So just that kind of stuff. So if you haven't done that, you can go look on the Facebook page and see what we're doing. All that. Okay. So that's what we have been talking about. So today we got a little. We're going to switch gears maybe. So I had a friend of mine from a while that popped into the office today, and I grabbed me and said, hey, we're fixing to go do a podcast. Come join us. So he doesn't know what we're talking about. We've got Nancy, who's been doing these for the last. It's been five or six in a row that we've been doing that. So she's here with us as well. And, like, normal. So, Nancy, what are we talking about today?

[B]

I have no idea.

[A]

So she's at least calmer than Almonda because she doesn't know. And then also in that same light that Jeff is going to say, I don't know. Okay. But what we're going to do today, we're going to talk about. We're going to switch gears just a bit because we can get a bit off in this idea. Maybe we're going to. We're going to present something out there that we have all these Lent tasks for people to do and all these different activities. Okay. And we're going to kind of look at this thing. So I'm going to ask. Because we'll start. Nancy. Okay, if there's like 46. Lent task.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. If I do them all perfectly good, like, I knock it out of the park. I mean, I went 40A. I do 46 out of 46, which is not going to happen because I'm not the most dialed in. Okay. So. But I do 46 out of 46 and I do them really well. Okay. At the end of it, can I say that I am really good because I have done all of these things really well

[B]

from the just perfection of doing them all part. Yeah. I would say that that would be something that you could be applauded for.

[A]

Okay, agreed.

[B]

But I don't think that it would necessarily make you any better of a person than if you hadn't. If you hadn't have done them.

[A]

Okay, so that does. So you would say in that, hey, here was your goal.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You set forth. You said you were going to do 46 out of 46 and you did that. Congratulations.

[B]

Because you stuck to something committed and you finished.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But in the end of it, you. You could not necessarily justify in an argument that you are any better or worse of a person than you were at the start of the journey.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You may have learned some more about yourself and you're more in tune with yourself and more comfortable with yourself, but still, at the end of the day, you still are not some greater person than who went 40 out of 46. If the one who went 46 out of 46, are they a better person than the one who went 40 out of 46?

[B]

No.

[A]

No, they were able to finish their goal. Okay, so Almanza, on this, if somebody. You don't even know what the lent task we went. Because I've known. Crud. I'm not. Okay. So I'm not going to say his. Okay. But I've known. I've known Caleb for a long time and he's a grown adult. Like, he's a grown adult now and we all are. But I knew him in a sports metaphor, and I'll brag on him. Okay, so in the sports world, Caleb, in the sport that he chose to play was an all American, Correct? Yes. Okay, so I'll brag. I mean, so we're going to brag on it. Okay, so he was an All American and one of the first ones we ever had. If not the first, you and Caleb would think with the first.

[C]

I think it was. I think it was. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So at. And if you're not out there, sports, you don't understand. All American is like the best of the best. Okay, so he got picked to be saying you your senior year. You are one of the best of the best. Okay. So stuck by his goals, very determined. Did this accomplished a whole lot as A team. Were you a better person than somebody who, on that same team that was sat on the bench the whole time?

[C]

No, absolutely not. That doesn't make me. I mean, it depends on, I guess, the, like the context. But I mean, no, it doesn't make me a better person. You know, I mean, just in general. Just because I stuck to a certain goal that I had doesn't mean that it makes me better than. Maybe I just got a better opportunity, who knows, you know? So, I mean, I guess it depends on the context, but sure.

[A]

Okay. And so we're going to kind of look at this today, like this concept, because we've been having some interesting discussions on serving on sacrifice on these different things. Because it's not a trap. That's not the right word. But it's easy to fall into these things and look at your accomplishments and believe that defines you as a person. Which on the positive side of it could be very good because like Caleb has, in the end of the day, he was a soccer player and at the end of the day, he is one of a very small percentage, half of 1%, if even that. I don't even know that can say I was an all Americans. An accomplishment.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To be proud of. Okay, so we're going to look at. Okay. How easy you could, you could look on the positive side of it. These things are very good. If I went self sacrificing and did 46 out of 46 things, I read scripture every day that I was supposed to read. I did these things. And at the end of 46, like, here was the goal, here's the task, here's the summit we were just talking about in the soccer deal. Okay. That if I make it there, then, man, look at me. So tell me the positive side on a person. If you are very goal driven, you're very focus driven, I am going to do this. Tell me the positive side of it. When you do accomplish what you set out to do. Tell me the positives.

[B]

I would say obviously you would have a sense of accomplishment. Like there's a sense of pride that you were able to persevere in the midst of probably some challenges. Because committing to something and sticking with it for that long is challenging. So there's that sense of just being able to overcome the challenges and to persevere and reach your goal.

[A]

Okay, Caleb, what do you think? The positive.

[C]

No, I agree 100% and say that, you know, it just gives you a confidence aspect to kind of continue to push yourself in the right direction. Other than maybe not Accomplishing what you set out to. And that kind of sets you back personally a little bit to where you maybe not don't have that confidence. So I think that's a big thing as well.

[A]

Okay, so then out of that, then we're going to go down that direction. So then that. That's a positive. Okay. There's nothing wrong with. This is how we're wired and we. There's no. You could argue not having goals and working towards them. That's positive. You know, if you don't have something you're striving towards, you're just wandering around, you're floundering. Okay. Caleb runs a business. If he doesn't know. I want the business to be here in six months, I want it to be here in a year. If you don't have goals you're striving towards, you don't know where you're going to go. Okay, so in it, let's then dial it back. Okay, to a bit. So let's say your goals are professional. Okay, so goals. I'm going to ask you this. Okay, so goals, personal E. So we're just going to kind of say on a scale of 1 to 10, one would be absolutely impossible to do. 10 would be really easy to do. Okay, so rate in the scale of this. Okay. Personal goals, Solely personal goals. I am going to not eat meat for 40 days. That's a personal goal. I'm going to work out every day and do this so I can get half as big as Caleb. Okay, so I'm going to do that. But that's a personal goal. They're good. Okay, so they're not generally, probably you wouldn't have a personal goal that would get you into a very bad. They're generally to better the person. How easy is it to accomplish personal goals? One, impossible. Ten, super easy. Where would you rail it?

[B]

I guess it would depend on the goal.

[A]

Okay, fair enough.

[B]

Some are harder than others, but I would say for the most part, personal goals would be easier than goals that weren't dependent on somebody else.

[A]

Personal goals, 1 to 10, you would

[B]

give it 8 or 9.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, that's right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You can do like, you probably are not going to put a goal that is impossible.

[B]

Right?

[A]

I mean, you're going to go, I. This is going to be a lot. This is going to be a challenge. But it's doable with enough sacrifice, enough determination, enough work. Who can do it? You can do it. You, you, yourself and I. And if you don't do it, who doesn't do it.

[B]

You. You don't do it.

[A]

Okay, but you would say doable. Okay, Caleb, where would you think one to ten? She says eight. Nine. Yeah, we're gonna say nine. Eight or nine. Eight and a half.

[C]

I'd probably just agree, honestly, because it's, it's. That just seems right because when you can control the outcome yourself, I mean, it just, it makes it that much, that much easier. So I, I agree.

[A]

100. Personal, professional, great goals. Professional and relational. I'd put those. Or let's, let's say professional. Okay. Just the only professional. Professional goals. One to ten. How easy?

[B]

I would say that would be more five or six.

[A]

Okay. Why?

[B]

Because it depends on other people too.

[A]

Okay. They have to buy in to what you're trying to do, so you're not solely dependent on it. But if you're the leader in a professional sense, if it does not succeed, whose fault is that?

[B]

Mine.

[A]

Okay. So the leader would feel responsibility even though they don't control all of the variables in the equation. Caleb's business, not that it's. Or Bobby Joe's business over. I'm not going to pick on Caleb, but Bobby Joe's business over here. If he doesn't succeed, it may not succeed because people didn't really buy into what he was doing and they didn't make the sacrifices necessary to get to the goal. Still, it fails. And then out of that failure, he's responsible for it. And there's people that are suffering because he didn't make the professional goals that he thought he should do. Okay, Caleb, what do you think? Professional goals.

[C]

She's not missing very much right now. I think, I think it's going to be pretty close as well, because it all just kind of depends on multiple. There's a lot more that comes into the equation than just. Just yourself. So I mean, you know, it's. It's people, it's. It's customers, it's whatever. Whatever it is that you're actually setting goals for. And so there's a lot more, A lot more things that come into the equation. So. And if you're not bought into it, then, I mean, that's another thing too. So obviously I think you're, you're probably right out of five. Yeah, it's, it's harder to. Harder to control, for sure.

[A]

And then let's say in this deal, like professional. Okay, so you just said we won't go way deep in this if you don't truly believe it is possible. Do you think anybody on your team is going to Believe it's possible.

[B]

No, no chance.

[A]

Not a chance. And you go through the motions and then you see how long we can keep on this path. But nobody is going to believe this is going to occur. You may want to believe it's going to occur. Yeah, man. We. We really. I want to be the top whatever, the top cereal making business in the world. I don't even know what. Okay. But I know it's not possible because I don't have the tools in place. I don't have this in place. I don't have that in place. I'm just saying the words because I want to believe it true. Because I like the. The plus side that comes out of this. Because if I become that, then I'm really rich and the business is really big. So there's some pluses of it. And I also feel like I have to say these things, you know, because if I don't say these things, then I'm not being a good leader because I'm not trying to lead people into a place that they. So. But I don't really believe it's possible. We just doing it. And I hope in the ship's going to go long enough for it sinks and then everybody be fine or we're going to just settle on this spot. Okay. So professional. Took a little bit bump back from personal. So personal. Because that's just me. I want it bad enough. It's going to happen. Whatever the goal is that you put probably into this to certain level. Okay. Like if I wanted to be Michelangelo, no matter how bad I want to be, I will not be that because I don't have some of the giftedness that comes with it. So there's limitations.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Okay. Professional drop down pretty good, you know, because of there's other variables. So then we're going to loop back to just an individual. Okay. Spiritual. Spiritual goals. Okay. How easy are spiritual goals? Or let's just say spiritual goals because you can get misguided in that and make it. My goal is I'm not going to miss church for one time in 2026. Whatever. I'm not saying that. So that's great. But that could be classified as a spiritual goal.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Okay. Maybe even attainable, because that's something again, I can control. What if your goal in the spiritual realm, let's make it less concrete, is that your personal goal is holiness?

[B]

I think that that's too broad of a word.

[A]

Okay, then tell me. So tell me on this. Okay, I would agree. I'd agree on that. Why is it Too broad of a word.

[B]

I think my definition of holiness might be different than Caleb's definition of holiness and that might be different than your definition of holiness but mine is the right one.

[A]

So like it's irregardless of what your definition is. Okay, so I'll be glad to help you on what your definition of holiness is. Okay, so I'll be glad to tell you. Well Nancy, you are mistaken because this is what holiness means.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this is what you need to hit.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I'll be glad to tell you.

[B]

And every church has a different or every denomination has a different definition of what. Of what holiness is and what.

[A]

Agreed. So then what would you in the spiritual aspect. So then the question is going to be. Because much of life, whether we go to church or not is a spiritual journey. We're trying to find truth that is greater than ourselves and we're longing for this. We would desire to serve for motivations other than just strictly economics I think and of its essence. We would like to have a purpose that is bigger than just solely myself. I would believe people whether now how that lives out in your life. So then that's what I'm classifying is spirituality. So then these things a we start off that are very difficult to define because the definition is different to a certain degree. Maybe we would agree with that, maybe we wouldn't different to a certain degree for people. Okay. So then that gets difficult. But then again we're talking solely us personal goals. I'm going to run 2.5 miles a day. I know what that means. 2.5 miles run every day for every person. A mile is a mile. Run is a run. Okay. The pace we can go. Well Caleb's going to run it in a five minute mile and I'm going to run it in a 50 minute mile. But maybe it looks a little different. Well we did. Now we're going to talk about spiritual this aspect of another form of living. Because there is, I would say there's personal, there's professional and there's spiritual.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In our life. Okay. So we'd say personal goals. Decently easy. Decently. Okay. Professional goals a little bit more difficult because they involve people. And if you're not the leader that's even more difficult because your goals and the leaders goals may not align. So they're kind of the heck am I supposed to get my professional goals right moved forward Because I don't even really have any say in it. Okay. Because this dude over here is making all decisions and he's a dumb Butt like he don't even know what he's doing, you know, And. And he won't even give me the chances I need. So I'll never accomplish my personal. My professional goals. We get that. Spiritual goals, and then we're going to look at the challenge there within. That's the question at hand. Okay. Is striving towards spiritual goals. This realm of. Towards holiness, knowing that has different definitions. This realm of serving others well, this realm of, you know, loving others more than you love yourself and even beings that you don't even understand. How easy is that to do, Nancy? Glovy, one to ten.

[B]

Oh, man. I'd say that's probably a two.

[A]

Okay. We've knocked down a little bit. Why?

[B]

Yeah, well, I think it's so easy. And I'll just speak for myself. It's really easy.

[A]

Speak for Caleb, please.

[B]

For me as well. It's easy for me to get in my own way a lot with that. That I can become my own stumbling block. So it's almost like with my personal goals, I'm. I'm really. I'm a help. I'm a. You know, I'm the one who's sort of in the. Driving the driver's seat and I'm pushing myself. And, you know, being that. That encouragement and that motivation, I can motivate myself in that way, whereas spiritually I can get my ego. That same ego that's pushing me towards these personal goals can be a stumbling block spiritually because it's not about me anymore.

[A]

Tell me what that means.

[B]

Well, it means it's. It's not. This isn't about Nancy so much as it is about how God can use me for a bigger purpose like that. That, to me, is the ultimate spiritual connection, is understanding that God is God and I am not. And you. You say that a lot, that those are the two things that, you know, without a doubt. And I. It's hard to wrap your head around that. That the spiritual aspect of it is the polar opposite of a personal aspect. That it is. It is not you anymore. And pulling yourself out of that and understanding that. That it isn't you, that this doesn't revolve around Nancy, that this isn't, you know, this isn't how I can be anything other than a tool for him. That's hard. It's hard to get out of the way.

[A]

And do you understand how confusing all of those words were? Yeah, like so in it. And. But what would you say? Important? Is it important?

[B]

Yes, the most important.

[A]

Okay. So we would say Maybe the most important possibly. Caleb, what do you think?

[C]

1 to 10 and can I copy her number again?

[A]

Yeah, I mean she's been pretty spot on.

[C]

She's been spot on. And so I mean there's a lot that makes it complex. You know, it is definitely the hardest and there's not kind of like you were saying earlier, it's really not a good way to. To you know, have that. That scale, you know, like, you know, like it's not like there's these. These goals that I can. I'm running two miles. Like there's not like that clear definition of. Of what it looks like. And I think that it comes down to a lot more of your environment and kind of, you know, who you. Who you choose to be around and you know, and you not to say that you can't change an environment but you know, it will definitely have a.

[A]

Have an effect.

[C]

I think so. I think, I think two is definitely the. Definitely the number again. And it just becomes hard.

[A]

Okay. So the interesting to me because this is the discussion point. Personal goals read an eight or nine pretty solid professional goals. Five or six depending on some very. But that to a solid six. I can get those done. I just do a good enough job and believe hard enough in it and do these things outwork the competition, get the team to buy in and we can get this done.

[B]

Sheer will cast the vision.

[A]

Cast the vision.

[B]

Everybody gets it.

[A]

That's right. More clear of the vision if it doesn't quite work. I wasn't clear enough on the vision. I wasn't determined enough. I didn't believe it enough. My plan wasn't good enough. I didn't work hard enough. So then that one you would go. I'm going to control all the variables I can control. There won't be a competitor that will outwork me. There won't be a competitor that will do a better quality of work than I can do. There won't be somebody who doesn't believe this anymore. I can control these things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

On the personal side, I can control what I eat to a degree. I can control what I drink to a certain degree. I can control how many reps I do. I can control whether I go to the gym or not. I can control. I can control. I can control. We would say if we're just looking at this scale, these are three components that would make up a decently healthy life. If you're. If your personal life on all realms. I mean I put relationships in the but on this. Okay, so your personal goals, if they're going pretty decent, and your professional is going pretty decent. You're doing all right. Okay. And I'd say spiritually and living a purpose that's bigger than yourself. If you're doing those three things, wouldn't you agree if you're knocking those three things out of the park, you've got a pretty solid life.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Okay. So we would say that. And then we have just said in sentence that out of those three, the one that may be the most important. Most important would be the spiritual part of it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Something more than just you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But yet we've said also the most difficult. And we. So we would say the most important in this discussion format is spiritual. But we gave it a two. We gave it a two. I would agree with that. I would give it a two as well. But I'm knocking it out of the park a three. But there's days that it's a one.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

Okay, so then average would be a two. I don't think there's a day that there's a zero.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. So that I'm going, you know, whatever. I don't think that day exists. But some days when I'm really good, that's a three. Man did some good moments also. Good moments. Average two. So let me ask you on this stuff, what's the difference in the three? Why is that one so much more difficult? There's no other people involved per se, in your journey. Okay. There's cumbersome outside as you're trying to live out holiness and spirituality. And this deeper meaning, it does involve other people. That does complicate it. So the net results of that one are difficult to control, or are they even possible to control? The net result of spiritual living, would you say that is something we can control or not control?

[B]

The net result we can't control.

[A]

Agreed.

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay, so like the net result, we may believe and we may even see some things that we believe we created. The net result.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. But at the end of the day, on spiritual realms, I cannot control the net results.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Often unseen.

[B]

And I think that that's. That's the point. Like, I think the reason why that's the hardest is because God doesn't want us to think that we are the author of anything that we. That any of it could be said that we did it or we accomplished it, or we, you know.

[A]

Good. Okay, let's think about that. What do we say if you accomplish a personal goal, what happened?

[B]

Feeling of accomplishment and who did it?

[A]

If you ran a marathon, Caleb who did it? When you cross that finish line fetched.

[C]

But yes, it would be that accomplished it.

[A]

They pat you on the back and they go, golly. And you got the little thing did the metal. The metal, and you got it on the wall. And somebody comes in, he got little sweetie, you know. And for all y' all listening out there, even though most of our listeners. Oh, that was Caleb's phone. Good gracious. But so that may be already somebody jumping the gun. Keep this in mind while you're listening to this. Caleb is on the market right now. So

[C]

phone's blowing up, as you can hear.

[A]

Yeah, that was somebody jumping the gun right now. Hey, I want to talk to the Caleb guy real quick.

[C]

Marathon runner.

[A]

Yeah, marathon runner, Weight lifted, personal goal. Business owner knocking it out of the park. But you come to the end of the marathon run, they pat you on the back and they go, man, good job, Caleb. Look what you did. And then you look back on the race and you're like, yeah, I wanted to quit at mile 20. Cause that's when it gets really hard. But I did it right. I climb a mountain, I get to the top of it. What do I say? Look what I did. Agree, Nancy Glover.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Okay. She's multitasking right now.

[B]

I'm not multitasking.

[C]

I'm sure you always multitask.

[B]

I really do. Yeah, I do.

[A]

Okay, so then, professional. Who did it? You're the leader of the team. You're going to be a good leader.

[B]

But I would say with that, you would have to say, we as a team, did it, but pulled it together.

[A]

I agreed. But who steered the ship?

[B]

I steered the ship.

[A]

You're still the key. Key, key, key. Yeah. And so we did it. But we was led by I. Yeah, okay. Not bad. But again, that is things so spiritual. Where do you end at?

[B]

Not me.

[A]

Not me. Not me. And that's where it gets confusing. Yeah, it's where it gets confusing, because it is me. But I must allow myself to be used by something that is not me, that is out of my control. And I will not see tangible outcomes necessarily that make it easier to keep going.

[B]

And to make it even worse, like in today's gospel reading, you've got the Pharisees all kind of standing around judging you based on who they think you are.

[A]

Ah, fair.

[B]

And they're throwing all of their commentary at you as well, sort of interfering, like their definition of who you are at the same time. So you're trying to figure out, you know, how do I navigate through this process? Of something that is completely beyond my control that I really can't affect, while also having to deal with all of the bystanders who are throwing out judgments

[A]

left and right, telling you what you're doing wrong.

[B]

They know.

[A]

Yeah, agreed. Pointing out. Okay. So in it very confusing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then, like, if you're not into the Bible stuff, again, another church word like Pharisees and Sadducees in the Bible, that's religious leaders. Yes. Okay. So lack of a better term. Okay. So like that people from the outside that are going to point out how everything that you're trying to do in the spiritual realm or in this whole, like, you ain't doing it right. You ain't doing it good enough.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. You're not kind enough, you're not loving well enough, you're not faithful enough, you didn't pray enough, you didn't. They're going to find something that you are not doing well and point out how you are falling short.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And these are the ones that are, in theory, supposedly the ones that are supposed to be lifting you up and helping you accomplish this goal. But they tend to be the ones in this scenario that are going to go. No matter what you try out of this. In this realm, no matter. I will say this, and this is just a sentence, could be wrong. No matter what you try in this realm, you will fall short and you will do it, quote, unquote, inadequately.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Fair.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So it opens up when you go in this realm. The minute you even walk down this road, you've opened yourself up for everybody else to point out how you're not good enough and you suck at it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

How easy to start believing that?

[B]

Very.

[A]

Okay, and what happens when you do that? Tell me what that looks like.

[B]

Start doubting yourself, and then you stop doing the things that you had been doing because you think that maybe they're right.

[A]

Okay, maybe they're right.

[B]

Maybe you aren't good enough.

[A]

Are you good enough?

[B]

That I think, is it. That's the question.

[A]

Is it possible to be good enough?

[B]

No, I don't think so.

[A]

No. We make a complicated question where there was never even a question.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Was that the question? Okay, so, like, I would never go into lifting weights and say, okay, this is where I'm at and I'm destined to have to stay right here. Would I. That would be a terrible model. Okay. I could go, well, I can change some nutrition. I can do some form. I can do these things. I can help. Okay. And I can move forward and then weightlifting you at least get to see progress, man. Look, I could only bench, you know, I don't know when I was weak. 303 and a quarter, you know, I can't bench three and a quarter.

[B]

When he was week.

[A]

Yeah, like, I was like a lot stronger. Okay. But I can see tangible results. I start at 150 and then in two weeks later, I'm like, dog on. I'm doing 155. I see these things and then it's an encouragement to keep going. And then you got these dudes at the gym or whatever, man. Dude, you're looking good, man. Like you're getting swole. You got. Okay. And you get these positive affirmations. Okay. You don't see that in the gym. If you go lift for a month and you see nothing, how after you going, you're going to go back. No, no, this don't work. I'm just destined to be fat. Not. Or whatever. That's not that I'm destined to be unhealthy. Or maybe weightlifting is not for me, you know? Okay. So whatever. Spiritually, it is so easy in this realm that we can get caught up because we are this animal that two out of the three things that would make us on earth feel full, we control. Personal, professional, and now the spiritual one, which make us the fullest of the three, we have very little control. What is the one thing we can control in that realm? Is there anything showing up, showing up? Obedience.

[B]

Obedience.

[A]

The only thing we can really control is to keep coming forward, keep trying, you know, the results. Not in charge of that. Okay. And then in it, I find it so interesting because so many people do not go deeply into that realm. What do you think the number one thing that would keep people from even going deeply into. I want to search out how to live a more spiritual filled life. What do you think the number one obstacle on the front side?

[B]

I can tell you just what I've heard from people here at Feed My Sheep. They have been rejected by some religious organization somewhere. Like they've had a bad church experience.

[A]

They've been hurt.

[B]

Done with it.

[A]

Done with it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But at the end of this deal, okay, let's just circle back because I would agree that there is some legitimate hurt that has occurred in a church or faith institution.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Forget that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then in it, we would then say for us in this room was a pursuit of holiness. Ever solely about a church institution.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Easy to get confused.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

Because that is a part in it. So like lifting weights. If Caleb Almanza is a member at gym X or this or that. That helps to go to a gym that has all the tools. But can you still accomplish some of the stuff without that? Yeah, yeah, you get your own weight.

[B]

I have a she shed in my backyard.

[A]

Oh, look at her showing off. Look at that. Outmanda. Like what? I'm just saying. I got a pull up bar, I can do pull ups all day long. Got a five, huh?

[B]

In sets of five.

[A]

She can do sets of five all day. She said she cannot stop. Like she can do. But so Nancy does have a she shed so she can take care of that. So we can look. So one would be, I've been hurt by this deal and this is a very sacred and a very sensitive place. If somebody ventures out and goes, I want to really live a more deeper life and then they get hurt. Cuz somebody goes and says, hey dude, why you even bothering? Cuz you're a sorry dude.

[B]

Or like one of my close relatives, I don't mention names at I guess he was maybe 12, abused at home.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Went down the street to the church near his house to ask for help. He had been praying for God to help him to get him out of this situation. And the church said, you can't, we can't help you, you have to come with an adult, there's nothing we can do for you. And they sent him away back to that. And he says, now if there's a God that loves me, how could he let that happen?

[A]

Holy moly. So that's a whole lot like. Agreed. Yeah, fair.

[B]

And I think just in the context of the people that we work with here, that's probably the common question is how could God allow, if he loves me, how could God allow some, something this traumatic to happen?

[A]

Agreed. Much of that. And then so I would say then we're going to go even further on the spiritual realm. So like that, yeah, you could go, how could God allow that to happen to me?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If he loves me? Because then you got the philosophical argument like this is the 101, the philosophical things, all three must align equally. So God is all powerful.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. God is all loving. Evil exists. All three can occur simultaneously. Either God is not all powerful. So then there's some of the philosophical stuff that you could look at and go, well, maybe he's not all loving because bad things happen. Maybe he is not all powerful because bad things happen. Okay. So then not going down that, because that's a whole other deal. But you could look and then out of this in the Spiritual, spiritual realm. And to go, dang, why did this happen? So then first is we could possibly come to this place of saying why we don't even go down that road. God doesn't love me. We would say in here. I would say, well, that's not true. And I'd love. Okay, we could look down that. But somebody would come to that place of saying, God doesn't love me, so why should I even go down that path? Even though we would say this is the most important path of all. Three of those.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you could look at that 12 year old. Valid. It would be different. Difficult, Very, very difficult to sit with that person and not say, I could see that. Yeah, I hurt for you. I hurt for that 12 year old. I mean, I mean my parents, they got divorced when I was, I don't know, whatever second grade is, summer of second grade, whatever that is.

[B]

10 or 9.

[A]

9, 10. 9 or 10. I can't remember going to a church, but I can remember. And I didn't know if I was enough. I wasn't strong enough my faith to say that I was praying to God, please don't let this happen. I do remember sitting there going, I don't want this to happen. I don't want to go to this place. And my dad's at this place. I don't understand this. I don't get this. I don't want this to be.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I can remember that hurt and it occurred. I can even still in my life look and go, well, dang, that sucks. Why'd that have to happen to me? Even though it didn't happen to me. I get it. Whatever. Adults make decisions. Relationships don't work out. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Okay, so one is maybe he doesn't love me. I mean, we can go downstairs. So that's one why somebody would do is the path. Maybe. What about this one? That God knows you. So maybe you're at the place that you go and there's this God and he does know me. But then you're tasked and you come to this place. But yeah, he knows me and he couldn't possibly love me because he knows me. He knows what I've done. He knows how much I have fallen short. He couldn't possibly love me. Yeah, one over here. Look what he let happen to me. He couldn't possibly love me or that wouldn't have happened. Mom wouldn't have passed away. This wouldn't have occurred. This wouldn't have occurred, didn't love me. And two is Even sadder to me is he does know me, but in my own mind, he couldn't possibly love me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you think that happens?

[B]

No, but I think.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

Think it. Oh, yeah, yeah, I think we definitely think that. Yeah, I've thought that myself.

[A]

I do, too. There's not a day that goes by. Yeah, I would say maybe in that I'm not. I can't answer for God. I couldn't argue some of my actions. She probably doesn't love a whole lot. I mean, like, so you're like, hey, man, I ain't too fond of that one. Jeff, Come on, slick. Okay, but the essence of who Jeff is, does he love less or more based on my net outcome from the day? Does he love Jeff less or more at the end of the day by what I did or didn't do?

[B]

I think God loves you infinitely every day, no matter what.

[A]

Okay, so again, out of this, so we can come to this place and it's so difficult. And we even begin, you know, and we begin with luggage already that we're carrying along, that A, God doesn't love me because look what he did, or B, God can't love me because he knows who I am.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then we go down this journey, we begin this path and we can knock out some of the parts of it, which is, okay, I'm going to pray every day. I mean, and that's good. I mean, I'm not saying that's not good. That's good, that's a start. But that's really not the journey. And in of itself. Okay. And it's so easy in that. Okay, so then if we lifting weights, we don't see net results. We got people at the gym. I got Steroid Joe over here who swollen up everywhere and I'm trying to work out. I'm an old man and I know whatever. And he points out every day, look how sorry you are. Why are you even doing this? You ain't getting no. You think I keep going?

[B]

No, no.

[A]

But we do it every day to other people that are striving to move forward in their journey with faith and drawing closer to this true meaning of what life means. We sit around and we go, look at that. Sorry, dude, might as well quit. Why do we do that?

[B]

Well, I think just as a human trait, if we're tearing other people down, that makes us better. Better. Yeah, that's right.

[A]

I know my shortcomings in that, so I point out theirs. So it makes me feel that I'm not as short right at Least I'm not that person.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And then it leads us to this place of, well, why even try? Because I'm going so at the faith deal. Okay. In our own perception, not a reality of what occurs, because in our own perception it is, I think, a defender, decently safe place. And maybe you'll argue with this sentence, okay, why even journey down this path? Because ultimately we are going to fall short. Fall short, in our words, means fail.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why go down that path that's ultimately going to lead to I didn't do it good enough and I failed. Why?

[C]

Well, just because you failed doesn't mean you didn't become better.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I think, you know, even if you didn't reach the goal that you originally sought out for, I mean, doesn't mean that you didn't become a better person. You didn't grow in your spiritual. I mean, it just. I think that it. At least you were moving in the right direction. And so it's better than backwards.

[A]

Can you fail in this?

[C]

No.

[A]

How?

[C]

Well, I mean, because there's no, there's no real. I mean, there's no real, like, you know, this is exactly where you need to end up at. I mean, there, There's. It's hard to fail at something whenever you never have a absolute finish. I mean, it's like it's always. You're always pushing for more. And as long as you're always trying to grow your spiritual growth, I mean, there's. It's hard to. It's hard to say that you fail. I mean, I could be wrong on that, but I mean, it's just my thought.

[A]

No, no, your thought is right. And it's like, I would say maybe that line of logic is the only. Failure is not trying. Fear of failure is failure. Okay, Nancy, what do you think?

[B]

Well, I mean, I guess it's just from my upbringing, but failure is burning in hell. Okay, at the end of the day,

[A]

we're gonna throw that card in the deck.

[B]

I mean, that's all that the line.

[A]

Sorry, Caleb, you were wrong. Caleb's like, as long as we're moving forward, Nancy comes and bust out with the. I don't know, I'm gonna say, failure is burning in hell. She just dropped, man. That one dropped out. Woo. That came out. I'm sweating. She just dropped that. I don't know if it's my upbringing or what, but I think failure means burning in. Not laughing at that. But I'm like, I don't know. We're long versus driving.

[B]

It's true. There is a. There's a fire and brimstone kind of.

[A]

Oh, you know that.

[B]

That line is what they. They, you know, use to.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Got to do this right. Or pay the ultimate price of eternal damnation and, you know, this awful thing. So then, you know, someone like me, type A personality that's gotta. She should check the boxes and do all the things to me that's like, okay, what's the recipe then for me to not go there?

[A]

Fair.

[B]

How do I.

[A]

Good.

[B]

How do I accomplish that? Avoiding that. If I can just be good enough to not end up there, then that's my goal.

[A]

Success.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so. And then ultimately, like we would agree. Caleb probably agree with this too, and he's still going to move forward with the path and that's it. But at the end of the day, you want to check the box.

[B]

And I do think you were absolutely right.

[A]

Oh, my God. No, I do.

[B]

I do. I think you're right. Just for the wreck here, just.

[C]

I'm also not trying to burn in hell.

[A]

Here's an aside. Hey, just side note, appendix A states over here don't want to burn a hell. I think we could agree on that. We would agree. Ah, but we got that one is also in that realm.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A path. I just want to know how many of these boxes I got to check off to make sure when I breathe my last. I don't want this bad thing. And I. It drives me crazy. Okay. Like this is one. And I don't. I don't know. And I'm not claiming to be right. There's a billboard. I can go drive by on the way home. I think it's on the way home. Okay. I see it all the time. It says, are you sure where you're going, Heaven or hell. Yeah, that's all it says. I will tell you this. I mean it nicely. And there's some out there. I won't say her name, but they're pretty sure where they know I'm going. Okay. So. And they're rooting for the eternal hell part. Okay, I get that. So I'm fine with that. Sorry. I don't know what whole milk looks like. I apologize. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, so I apologize for that. Okay, So I am going to burn for that one. But so we would go. I don't know. I don't know if that's. If it's about checking boxes. Okay. At the end of the exam, I will say this. Okay. At the end of the exam, if it is about answering questions and checking Boxes. I have to. If I have a brain in my head, I have to come to a place looking at my life. If I am the judge, which I am not. If I look at my life, I look at my body of work, look at my spirituality, look at the things I have accomplished. I would have to come to the place that I'd look at the score. If I added up myself, I'm going to go. Crud. I failed the test. I failed the test. Son of a gun. I didn't answer enough. Correct. Dang it. Look back here. I wish I'd have done this. I should have done that. I knew the answer to that one. How did I miss that question? I studied for it. Eight gillion. I missed it. I missed it. I missed it. And I even add up my score. I know the things I got wrong. I know the ones that I missed. I know all this stuff. And it is an F. Now, we may could argue in this room that Jeff may fail it with a 40 and Nancy's going to fail it with a. What's an F is below a 60. Right. Nancy knocked it out of the park. She only failed it with a 59. Caleb got a 58. Jeff got a 40. We all failed. Okay. We all failed the exam on that. But then what's really cool. So then we'd all acknowledge this is the score I deserve. This is the one I earned. But then there's this cool thing that there is one heck of a curve.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Heck of a curve. We think we under. I'm learning this like my son's at law school. Okay. You may. That. That's always the variable at the end of the test. Okay. Is an A. He just took an exam. There was one A given out. He happened to get it. Proud of him for that. Okay. But it was basically like you got a D on the test, but that was an A because the test was so hard. Okay. So then if you're using the scoring system, so there's a roundup curve and you can go, okay, but we're not going to even stop there because that's flawed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. That I'm going to live this life. I'm going to fall short. But then I hope that the curve is big enough to pull me through. That ain't much way to live because you're gambling eternal damnation on this thing. So, like, you got a whole lot riding on this curve. And you're like, okay, I'm hoping 40 gets me up there. Give me to. Give me two a D. Give me to a D. Give me two a D. I just went in the door. Okay, I did. D is for diploma, you know. Give me an H. I want an H. Give me a heaven. Give me a heaven. Give me a heaven. K. That's not it. Okay, so what we deserve is trumped in this faith journey in that Christ came and said, while you were yet sinners, Christ died for us so that we should have eternal life with Him. So in this journey, what we have to come to and land to, we will never score high enough on our test, well enough on our examination that we will get into this place that we are desiring to on our own accord. Right? Period. So then we live in the peace that we strive to love deeply this God who does love us, that knows us more than we know ourselves, and says ascendance, even though we don't say it about ourselves in the spiritual realm often enough. He loves us even though he knows us more than we know ourselves. We don't. Yeah, we don't. We dislike ourselves often. And we look at that. I would also say, like, if you ever doubt, you can look at Lazarus Tomb. Okay? He knew the story. And people looked at that story of Lazarus and they said, why did he let him die? Jesus came and saw him. Like, look, if he cared about him, what did they say? If he cared about him, he wouldn't have let that happen. He could have done something about it. And he didn't. He stayed away. Even Mary and Martha in that story said, jesus, if you just would have been here, you could have done something about this. He said, take me to him. And they said, we can't, because he's going to stink. He's been in the tomb three days. He's going to stink. Like so we get nothing, but he's going to stink. He's dead for three days. Okay, so take me to him. In John 11:36, I think it's 36, 36, 35, whatever. Shortest verse in the Bible came. The shortest verse in the Bible is, and he wept. Or. And Jesus wept. He cried. Yeah, he cried. Okay, we got to back up a little bit in the story. And it says, they took him to the tomb. Took Jesus to the tomb. Okay. And he felt the wailing and the crying and the hurting of the people outside Lazarus Tomb. And then this verse that pops up all the time, okay. We even talked about it earlier in Hosea. The thing right before 11:35 is he says, and Jesus heart overflowed with compassion. And then the next verse is, and then Jesus wept and Then he walked inside the tomb and he raises Lazarus from the dead. In some versions, he apologizes for Lazarus, because keep this in mind, Lazarus was in heaven. Like Lazarus had lived a good life. He was with. He was in a better place. There's nobody can argue that life is good. Like, this is the ultimate answer that you're always desiring to come back here. He apologized to Lazarus, said, hey, I had to do this for them. I want them to see this sort of saying sorry brought you out of heaven to teach him a lesson. But out of that, there's no way that somebody could. It could feel as such. I would not doubt that at all, would not look somebody, you know who has been raped that comes and says, hey, where's this God of yours that said he was going to love me when these guys did this to me? And I begged them and I begged them, but they still did it. And in our world, Nancy and I see it, then that lady, then she, whatever she comes out of that situation, she prays, please don't let that happen to me again. And it does. And it does. And it does, and it does. I can see I would never, ever, ever sit in front of that person and say, I could not possibly understand how you could say God didn't love you at that moment. But I could say for all of us, I could say here to Nancy Glover, to Caleb, in this journey, when we are looking at ourselves and we say, God knows us and he knows us well, he could not possibly love me, I would say, you are wrong. I would also look at that same person who says, look, I went through this. How dare you tell me that God loved me in the midst of that. And I would say, I don't even understand the hurt that you have been through. I don't even understand this stuff. But I can tell you you are wrong that God does love you. So all of that to look at, we just made a big journey. Is this faith stuff. It matters. It's huge. But it is so, so, so difficult, so hard. And like Nancy said, we oftentimes in this thing that we would say and whatever it means to you, we also would come to the place that more times than not, we are our own worst enemy in it for sure. And we beat ourselves up terribly when we fall short of a thing that Caleb even acknowledged here that we're never going to reach. And we come up with all kind of cool sentences. You know, John Wesley would say, oh, we strive for perfection and we settle for excellence. Who wants to settle for anything in Your faith journey on your personal. You don't settle for your business, so we won't keep going. But it's an interesting journey for everybody out there to look at where you're at in this thing that we would say it's a 2 out of 10. It's very difficult to accomplish, and you cannot do it. So made a big circle to come to the place of, okay, guess what? Where we do everything at? Feed my sheep. All that we're about, all that we do is to come to a simple truth, is that we believe that all people matter and they deserve dignity and they deserve worth. So we would say that. And then I would say, if you're listening to this, okay, the only thing I know for certain is you are a person as well, and you deserve dignity and worth. And I can say this with 1000%. Only thing I can say with 1000% certainty is that God truly loves you in a way that you can't even imagine. And he desires for you to have life abundantly. So out of that, it is not any more complicated than that. And that's absolutely as simple as. But it is so, so, so, so, so complex and difficult.

[B]

Yeah,

[A]

so complex and difficult to live in that truth. So out there. It is good to have Caleb got stuck in here on this. That's pretty deep topic right there.

[B]

It was, yeah.

[A]

Pretty good.

[C]

That's a good topic.

[A]

Decent topic. Decent topic. And just the last brag on Caleb is. So we'll end with this. So all of y' all out there, Caleb was on the first, first men's soccer team at UMHB that won a conference title. Got that going for him. Business owner, all that. So he's got that. And Nancy Glover, we're gonna leave y' all out there can do pull ups in sets of five all day long. All day long, all day. Can never stop. Okay. Correct.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

That's true. The truth is the truth. Set to five. I don't know what, four or six. No, you get the six. Four, five. Gotta be five. So out there, just remember on this, in this faith deal, so much of what we do here every day and feed my sheep, we. The physical and just doing things is fairly easy in a very difficult way. Doing it out of the realm of faith, really tough. And then also the joy and the wonderful deal of having everybody look at what you're doing, what you're doing, and everybody's more than glad to tell you how much you suck at it and how wrong you are at it. It's tough. It's tough. And everybody's in that journey. We're all in it together. I don't understand why we all want to beat each other up so bad in that realm, but we do.

[B]

Well, I think it's like Caleb was saying earlier, if you surround yourself with the. With the right people, it makes the journey so much easier, you know, having you to point out to other people. And I've seen you do it so many times. You're just gifted at seeing someone's heart when they can't even see it and telling them about who they are when they don't even know, you know, that that counteracts all of the negative commentary that.

[A]

And I've learned. I will tell you this, Caleb, so I will keep Nancy really close, and I will say, hey, what do you think about that? And I've always got the precursor. She's gonna say, I think you're gonna burn in hell for that. Okay, we're gonna switch gears because I thought I was drawing closer and on this path. Or nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. And don't speak about milk. Keep that out of the podcast. So everybody out there, I do, you know, hope that it's just a discussion. We're always on this journey, you know, and just to see you're not alone, maybe in your thoughts, and you're not alone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So hope you have a great day, and we will talk to you later. Sam.