Loading summary
Transcript137 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Hey, we want to welcome everybody to another edition of the collage podcast. We're glad you're with us today. Okay. We're just going to jump right in it today, if that's all right. So we have Nancy with us today. We're going to continue down our journey that we've kind of been going down to look at this. This concept. We've been looking at it through. Through more of a institutional philosophy, lack of a better term, of this relief, recovery, restoration model of working with human beings. Okay? So this is. We're talking organizationally, we've been kind of looking at as an entity that deals with a lot of people, of this mindset, this. That we're trying to get towards, this empowerment mindset. We've looked at different questions of that. So we're kind of in that same realm that we've been in today. We're going to look at it slightly different. So we're going to look at more along the individual basis of healing, restoration, wellness. Okay, so we're just going to kind of break it down to a story here, and we're going to look at that. So any words for us while we get into this, Nancy?
- [02:01]
B
No. Ready to jump in.
- [02:04]
A
Okay, so there we go. So real quick, just for all of y' all out there, we're going to kind of look. And this is the basis of the topic discussion. Okay? So we're looking at a story out of the Bible. Nancy and I were talking about this, and it's an intriguing deal. And we're going to look at this story and then look at how it pertains to much of what we're talking about. And we're looking because we have gone in this journey. We've looked at people's right to make decisions for themselves. We're not taking away from that. We've looked at all of these different things and how we're hoping all of this and this and this, okay? So this story, it comes. We're looking in the Bible, okay? So the book of the Bible that we're looking at is this book called John. And the chapter that we're looking at is John 5. And the story is this in John 5, and it's chapter one. And we'll go down a little bit to, I don't know, five or six, something like that. We're going to go down. But it says this, okay, in the story. And this is what we're going to discuss and for you to ponder. It says, afterward, Jesus returned to Jerusalem for one of the Jewish Holy days. And inside the city, near the sheep gate, was a pool called Bethsaida, okay? And it had five covered porches where crowds of sick people, blind, lame or paralyzed, they lay on the porches. And one of the men lying there had been sick for 38 years. When Jesus saw him and he knew how long he had been ill, he asked him this, would you like to get well? I can't, sir, the sick man replied, for I have no one to help me into the pool when the water is stirred. When the water is stirred up while I am trying to get there, someone else always gets in ahead of me. Then Jesus tells him this, stand up, pick up your sleeping mat and walk. Instantly, the man was healed. He rolled up the mat and he began walking. And then we'll look at this, because I don't like leaving a word out of the scripture. It says, but this miracle occurred on the Sabbath day, which is a whole other discussion. Okay, so we're not going to get on whether Jesus. That is a discussion whether Jesus had the right to heal on the Sabbath, you know, because the religious leaders at that time believed he did not. Yeah, okay. So not going to go down that. What we're going to look at. What I found interesting on this for a little bit of clarity to make sure. So that we have this guy and this. The story we're going to look at this is a long time ago that this guy had been laying in this place for 38 years. Years, okay? Laying for 38 years. And in that culture, in that time, okay, people did not live as long as they do now. So now if you saw somebody who was 38 years old, you would not be taken aback and go golly. Well, maybe if you're a teenager, you're going to go, golly, that person's old. But no, it's not abnormal to see somebody 38 years old. You would not consider them old.
- [05:44]
B
Right?
- [05:45]
A
Okay. I'm saying that because I'm older than 38, so I would not consider. So we look at that in that culture at that time, this person that had been laying at this place for 38 years would be considered very old. Okay? Like, they would looked at it, and he would have been an old man, because we don't know how old he was there. All we know is he had been in this spot for 38 years. He was at this spot for 38 years. Because in their culture, this place, the well at Bethsaida, it was believed and it was known to be so that every time the Holy Spirit would Come down from wherever or enter into this pool. They would stir the pool up. And if you were the first one that got into the pool after it was stirred up, then you would be healed from whatever ailment that you had. So that's why people were there. That's why it says there were crowds of sick people there. There were blind people, lame people, paralyzed people laying all around on the porches of this, waiting for the pool to be stirred up, to be healed. That's why they're there. So then we got this story, okay? So then this is what is occurring. This guy had been there for 38 years waiting to get his term to get there, and it says he is paralyzed. So that will surprise none of us now to go, huh? Wonder why he didn't get there first. Couldn't move. He's paralyzed.
- [07:22]
B
Yeah.
- [07:22]
A
Okay, so he did not get there. 38 years of failure of. Okay, and this is where we're going to begin the discussion. 38 years of failure of trying to get healed. Correct. Okay, so this guy, he. We would like to believe he had been at the right spot that healing could occur. Okay? They knew this. They had seen miracles occur here. He'd been there 38 years. You'd have to go. Pretty decent perseverance.
- [07:56]
B
Yeah.
- [07:57]
A
I mean, he'd been to 38 years. You go, dang, that dude is pretty determined to get well. Wants to be healed in the right spot. Close to the answer, but still ill.
- [08:13]
B
Yes.
- [08:14]
A
At the end of the day, we get to this part of the story, Regardless of the qualities that the guy had, he's still sick, he's still paralyzed, period. So we draw this story, and then we're going to look here. Jesus sees him, noticed him. It says, I love this. It says, when Jesus saw him and knew how long he had been ill, he asked him this question, would you like to get well? He said, would you like to get well? Now we look at it and you go, man, that's really kind of a jerk of a question to ask the guy. Possibly because here's this guy, been there for 38 years outside this pool that healing occurred in. It seems if somebody else other than Jesus asked that question, it could be taken very wrong. Of course I want to be well. I wouldn't have laid here for 38 years waiting for this pool to be stirred up if I didn't want to get well. You could take and go, how dare this person say this to me, Yeah, I want to get well. Okay, but we won't look at it that way. So we'll look at it. And Jesus said, do you want to get well? Okay. And what does the guy say, Nancy Glover?
- [09:47]
B
I can't.
- [09:48]
A
I can't. He said, I can't, sir, in our translation. I can't, sir, because each time he says, for I have no one to help me into the pool when the water is stirred. Valid answer. We can look at this and go, huh, that makes sense. He's paralyzed. Somebody's got to help him in. Everybody's got their own problems to take care of. Nobody's got time to get him in the pool. That makes sense. Okay? Matter of fact, somebody probably, if they were kind to that dude, to go, hey, dude, you're never going to get in the pond because you're paralyzed and you're never going to make it on time. I'm going to do you a favor. I'm just going to carry you somewhere else because you ain't going to get no healing here. You might as well go over here and at least beg. You can get food over here or something like that, okay? Because nobody's going to help him there. Because each person who's around there, they might have a family member that they're going to take care of. They may have this, they may have that, that. They ain't going to have time, because time is of the essence. They got a rush. They ain't got time to help this dude, okay? So he said, man, nobody ever helps me, okay? And they probably aren't. But that wasn't the question. Jesus says, do you want to get well or would you like to get well? Okay, yes or no question. And he says, I can't, because. Valid excuse. Valid excuse. Okay, so let me ask you, Nancy Glover, why are we even discussing this? And how does it complicate or does it even complicate any of our discussion of relief, recovery and restoration for individual people? Not as organization, philosophical mindset, but for individual people. What does this have to do or does it involve anything as it pertains to the homeless situation in 2026, United States, Temple, Texas area?
- [12:09]
B
I would say just initial reflections on it. You know, you. You started off talking about how long he had been there, okay? And that that was a really long time. We have a lot of people in temple that have been experiencing homelessness for a really long time. We have a high level of chronic homelessness. And I would say, just as I've gotten to know the people that we're talking about, I can tell you that they are incredibly resourceful. And to remain in Homelessness that long really, I think, highlights their resourcefulness. Like the man by the pool, there was a lot that had to have gone into his existence in order for him to have remained there for that long. And I think the same is true for the people experiencing homelessness in Temple. It has they. There is a, I think, a level of. Of resourcefulness and survival, a survival instinct that kind of comes into play. With that said, I think it also. That same resourcefulness and survival instinct can be a detriment to them long term, too. So we've got one lady that we're helping right now, and we won't use her name, but that has literally said, you know, she's in housing right now, but she said, if I lose my house, oh, well, I'll be just fine. I'll go back outside and I'll sleep in so and so's backyard and, you know, everything will be fine. So her resourcefulness has become sort of a crutch for her, for lack of a better word, to face the responsibilities and the realities of what that healing would mean. And I think in this man's instance, when he says, I can't, you know, you could look at it two ways. You could look at it from the standpoint of physical restraints keeping him where he is. You could also look at it from the standpoint of a psychological trap that he's put himself in, that he can't fathom any other way of living, and that the thought of something different might be intimidating and scary. It's hard to look at change in that way and be completely confident in what. What's going to be like on the other side of it, especially after living so many years in that condition.
- [15:17]
A
Sort of it. Like, in it. So we kind of like. Interesting. And we're going to. We're going to dive into. Your initial response there is interesting that sort of his identity could be sort of in what his ailment is.
- [15:39]
B
Yeah.
- [15:40]
A
There's a comfort in at least whether you like it or not, of, I understand this. Oh, that's the paralyzed man who's outside of the sheep gate.
- [15:52]
B
Yeah.
- [15:54]
A
Oh, we know him. He also knows how to exist in this world. And so then you would say in it, okay, resourceful. He has learned how to survive because he's made it 38 years.
- [16:09]
B
Yeah.
- [16:10]
A
Okay. So we can't lose sight of that. And he's made it 38 years paralyzed outside of this place. He has survived a long time, whether I understand his existence or not. And I would have to land on. I do not Understand his existence because I have not been paralyzed. I have not been outside for 38 years. So I can't claim to say I understand it completely, but we'd have to. Interesting launching point you went into is that you'd have to acknowledge this dude has got strong survival skills and he is very resourceful. Yeah, he survived. Okay, so he has made it for 38 years with this condition. Now, it's absurd to me, but it is true that we would come to. And we will in a second to go. Golly, if you've been that way for 38 years, wouldn't you just jump at any millisecond of a chance to get out of that condition? But sometimes that is more comfortable than you don't even. I can't even fathom what it would be to walk. Never have. Okay, so, like, the known is better than the unknown.
- [17:39]
B
Right?
- [17:39]
A
Okay. And so in it, because we're talking, like, for entities and for people. And so then I would even say in here, in our world, like, kind of the topic here, it's not just the people that we work with and deal with are just homeless. Okay? So that is one of the life that many of us live and where we're at and what it confines us to and for the length it confines us to all this time. Okay? So I think there's some similarities in that all across the board for all of us, but here, because many of the people we do deal with, they are homeless without a house, or they are suffering from addiction, or they're suffering from. They may be paralyzed. We know one that we've mentioned, different one, but she's paralyzed. She can walk, but mentally, she is really, really, really, really stuck.
- [18:41]
B
Yeah.
- [18:43]
A
Okay. So in it. I mean, she would have sat outside on the curb last night. It got down to 30, but she would have sat outside on the curb.
- [18:59]
B
I don't know why, but she doesn't either.
- [19:03]
A
She doesn't either.
- [19:03]
B
Yeah.
- [19:05]
A
Like, I don't know. I don't know. And in it. And then pretty close like this. So then in it. This will take this story a little bit. So this one, she is pretty close. Like, we will walk outside today. I already saw her today sitting on the curb out in the sun across the street from Feed My Sheep. She is welcome to come in here anytime that she would like. She's welcome to come get food. There is people over here that approach her and also wait for her to come over here and would provide her and give her housing or give her any kind of assistance that could help her in any way, but she won't take it.
- [19:53]
B
Right.
- [19:55]
A
She's stuck. Like. So you look at this one and you look at her. Oh, did I say her name? No, no. Okay. Okay, you're good. Okay. It said it in my head. But you look at her and you go, golly. You kind of feel like there had to been other people that were sitting around with that paralytic for 38 years that were like, dang, what do we do with that one? Yeah, he's never gonna. He's never gonna meet the dude that's got just a mild limp or the dude that mute. Well, that dude's good. The guy who can't speak is gonna make it to the pond way quicker than the guy who can't move. You'd have to look at that and go, what do we do? Do you write them off like they would have to look at. Okay. Lack of a better term. And I'm not saying this to her. Okay, but you might, after 38 years, look at this guy and go, sucks to be you, but this is just where you're going to die.
- [21:12]
B
Yeah, it's. It's really funny that you. You bring her up in. In the context of this story. When I approached her yesterday about going in and getting a hotel room, the first thing out of her mouth was, I can't.
- [21:28]
A
Okay, agree.
- [21:29]
B
And I said, why not?
- [21:31]
A
Okay.
- [21:32]
B
And she said, I'm allergic to the money.
- [21:35]
A
Allergic to the money.
- [21:38]
B
And I said, well, it's going to get really, really cold tonight, and you really need to go inside. Is there any way that we can get around the allergic part? And she answered with, I can't. I'm just. I'm really tired and I can't. I'm allergic. I can't. Eventually, I was able to convince her to. To go, but her first words, the first words out of her mouth were, I can't.
- [22:17]
A
Okay, so then we will. We're going to pick up from there. I can't even tell you. Okay, so in it, the question that Jesus posed to the person is, would you like to get well? And he says, I can't. Okay, we will. We will agree that the question wasn't, why are you still paralyzed? The question was, do you want to get well? That's a yes or no question. Okay, yes or no.
- [22:49]
B
Yeah.
- [22:50]
A
Seems pretty simple to me from this side of it. Okay, yes or no, do you want to get well? Yes. No. We can look back and then there's still you. Go. Well, the guy might not have known this was actually the savior or whatever. Okay. He just said, do you want to get well here in this world? I can't even tell you how many times we've posed the question for various forms, various forms of help, resource or life changing possibilities. And hey, even simple would. And I wasn't even there. But if you'd have said, hey, Jeff, what do you think her answer was when I said, what about if we do this, I don't care what the scenario is, her first words are going to be I can't.
- [23:42]
B
Yeah.
- [23:43]
A
And then unheard. I don't mean it rude. And then insert an absurd reason why. Okay, so like we've had another time. We tried to get her into a place we have out in a farm. She could have her own place to stay. We're not even having this. I can't. Because I can't. I'm not allowed to get into cars. Yeah, she wasn't allowed. She's still not allowed to get in cars that go in the country. But mind you, she got in a car yesterday to go to a hotel room. Not with me. Nancy brought her not very long ride. But she does have the ability to get in a car. She is not allergic to money. She uses it all the time. But always her answer is going to be, I can't.
- [24:29]
B
Yeah. She's also told me that the police will shoot her on site if she leaves the area.
- [24:34]
A
Yeah. And they will not. So everybody out there, we know that is a fact that they will not. Okay, so let me ask you as human beings, okay, we can't speak for her. I'm speaking for us. Okay, we're going to look at this. Why is our first response always if I ask anybody here, okay, Regardless if I happen to know, and I am not that I am not the healer or the help. Okay. I'm just the poser of a question here. Okay? Christ was. He was the answer. Okay, so. But I'm not that person. Okay? He. If I ask anybody here 99.9% of the time, hey, would you like help with your addiction, whatever or I can't.
- [25:27]
B
Yeah.
- [25:28]
A
Would you like a place to stay? I can't. Would you like this? I can't. Would you like to have a possible life that you can't even imagine? I can't or I can't. If you just knew these things that I've done or if I've done this. I can't. I can't. I can't. Always. Always. And I'm saying that as ready people that work here, people that volunteer here, People that are served here, almost everyone and people that are sitting in this room, me included. My first answer, when somebody poses that true help and restoration is somewhere, we're always going to go to the place of I can't because of. And insert real valid good answer here. The guy's answer was correct. I can't. Now. Yr's answer was not correct. She's not allergic to money. But it was showing. Her answer was correct in that my mind is not working correctly.
- [26:47]
B
Yeah,
- [26:49]
A
I can't because my, my mind is not working well. I can't fathom what reality is or isn't. That's true. Why do you think we always come to the place that I can't so quickly?
- [27:05]
B
Well, I think that everybody probably is in a different place with their own struggle. And, you know, if you've been through something so long or if you've, you've reached a point of hopelessness like this man has, it's difficult to see that there is a possible way to be healed. But I would even say from my own standpoint, I have to pray, a specific prayer often to sort of remind myself of where I am in the whole grand scheme of things. And it's, it's a simple prayer. I can't. You can. You promised. I can't do it on my own. I know that in my heart. I know that. In my head, not so much. I still think that there are things that I could do if I just had, if I just had the resources to, to get into the water or if I just, if I just crawl hard enough, if I just try harder or, you know, find the way. It's my, it's my shortcoming that I can't get to the water.
- [28:30]
A
Okay, Agreed. So then like this, in this story, okay, and we're gonna, we're gonna fathom here that he was mentally well. Okay? So we're going to have in this story that it was just a physical impairment. Okay. So that we're not talking necessarily the same scenario of yr, that it was a mental. Yeah, okay. It was. Okay. Has to, has to reach a point. 38 years. He's. 04. 38 years.
- [29:06]
B
Yeah.
- [29:08]
A
365 times 38 is a whole lot of days.
- [29:14]
B
It's a lot of days.
- [29:15]
A
24 times 365 times 38 is a whole lot of hours. And at the end of the day. So where he is at, where he is sitting right now, at the end of the day, the world could look at him and the definition that they could Come to really quickly and that he could come to himself. Let's see if we're on the same wavelength. Even though my head doesn't really work. How would he define himself when he's looking at himself? And how would the world define him? Looking at him, they would say, what?
- [29:56]
B
He's broken and.
- [29:59]
A
Yeah, and he's a failure.
- [30:01]
B
He's a failure. Yeah.
- [30:02]
A
He would look at himself and you just said it. Okay. Dang it. If I just would have crawled quicker.
- [30:11]
B
Yeah.
- [30:12]
A
I could have got there. If I just would have done this. If I just could have convinced that lady that one time to help me get into the pool, I wouldn't be sitting here anymore.
- [30:25]
B
Yeah.
- [30:27]
A
If I wouldn't have done. Because then in that culture, keep in mind, back in that culture, he was suffering. They believe this because they did not have wonderful science. We won't even go down. Science word or whatever, but they did not have science and technology like we do now. And the society would look at him and they would say, oh, that dude deserves it. He must have done something. He sinned and did something to deserve that punishment. And. And if he didn't, they would believe his parents did.
- [31:03]
B
Yeah.
- [31:04]
A
Oh, dang. That poor dude. They would say in that culture, oh, man, that poor dude. I don't really know him, so I can't really say. His parents must have really screwed up because look at the ailment he has to live with his whole life because of what they did. So they would say it is justified whatever is coming his way. It's freezing cold out there and he's out there. That's what he gets, you know, that's what he deserves. He would have to start believing himself, going, I suck at getting well.
- [31:45]
B
Yeah.
- [31:46]
A
I really suck at this. Because him, keep in mind, would had to have seen success stories, Right. Do you think success stories were an encouragement or a discouragement for somebody like this?
- [32:02]
B
I think they would have been a kick in the gut.
- [32:05]
A
Okay. Kick in the gut. Tell me about that.
- [32:07]
B
To be able to see something so close that you just can't seem to grasp for yourself is. Is very, very disheartening.
- [32:18]
A
I would think so too. Possible. We can't. We can't speak for him, but possibly. You look, if you saw. You got Billy, who was on the mat next to you, and y' all been together for like 10 years.
- [32:30]
B
Yeah.
- [32:31]
A
As your buddy, and somebody drags him in the mat and he gets into the pond and he gets cured. At the end of the day, you gotta say you're happy for Billy. Are you happy for Billy?
- [32:45]
B
No.
- [32:46]
A
No. Why not?
- [32:48]
B
Billy's got something you, you want desperately and you can't have it.
- [32:53]
A
Okay.
- [32:54]
B
You want to keep Billy on the mat next to you.
- [32:56]
A
That's right.
- [32:57]
B
Now Billy's gonna go off and he's gonna live his life and he's gonna forget all about you.
- [33:02]
A
That's right.
- [33:04]
B
You're gonna be all alone.
- [33:06]
A
All alone.
- [33:08]
B
Mm.
- [33:09]
A
Okay. This dude could never. Can you verbalize that?
- [33:13]
B
Right?
- [33:15]
A
Oh, yeah, man. I'm so happy for Billy Bob game. His life is better.
- [33:22]
B
Yeah.
- [33:23]
A
So in it, you can. Look, it is sort of a self perpetuating type scenario. You really don't want anybody around that pond to really leave because it shows that what could be possible for you. You don't want to say the words, but you're sitting there going, crap. At least If I keep 200 other people, whatever number, pick, whatever. If I keep 200 other people that are really sick and they're blind around, ooh, I may be paralyzed, but least I can see color. Ooh, I'm better than that one. I may be paralyzed, but I can talk. That one can't even talk right. But they're all around together, okay? And there's a little bit of comfort in that. And you really don't want people to leave that world because it puts a little kick in the gut, like you said, of going, dang it, I suck.
- [34:28]
B
I suck at this.
- [34:29]
A
I suck at this. Okay. So we would look, many of the ones suffering from addiction. One of the struggles is you come to a place until you figure out really why I'm doing. I deserve this, you know, comfort in that, not that I deserve that. The homeless scenario, I mean, you've been in it so long here in our little world, they would tell you statistically, not that I believe statistics. Okay. If somebody's been on the street, living outside for six months. Nancy, let me ask you, because I'm not going to tell me the exact number, but is it a high probability that they will be able to get off the street or is it a very low percentage?
- [35:23]
B
Very high. I think it's 90% at six months.
- [35:26]
A
Are going to stay on the street?
- [35:28]
B
No, get off the street. We can convert.
- [35:32]
A
Oh, okay. So after six months, so like in it, you have a timeframe. If somebody is. If somebody's homeless for a day, is it fairly easy to help them? Understand? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Month a little bit harder. Yeah. Six months it is. If you haven't found somebody off that's on the street and find avenues out within six months. Statistically, after that, it is astronomically difficult to get them off the street.
- [36:09]
B
It gets harder the longer they're there, for sure.
- [36:12]
A
Okay? And then it goes. I mean, some of the stuff, it's more difficult. You get used to life and this and that, okay, so we get this and we could look at this and we get this. So then now we go to the world that we're in, okay? And we look and we don't want. People to be trapped in this place and be comfortable and to be good with. I'm all right with this.
- [36:55]
B
Yeah,
- [36:58]
A
I'm all right. This is plenty good for me. I deserve this for whatever atrocity that occurred. Because sometimes we're not going to say sin, but sometimes the decisions of others or things that happen to these people that are here, they make them believe I deserve this. Maybe I shouldn't have gone in my uncle's room when I was five. I deserve that now. No, you didn't. You know. You know you didn't. And some of these things, well, that's. We could. Look, even historically we got here in our area, many people generational of. They've been on the street, their parents were on the street, they're on the street, okay, so you go, oh, maybe they are paying for the sins of their parents. It doesn't have to be right? It doesn't have to be. That's not the world that we're called to be. So the question on this for all of us and even here, is we're still in this journey of looking, how are you? How can you be kind and good to people? Okay, so then out of this. So I will say this. Okay, so then where. Because this is the word I keep coming back to is what does kind look like to individual people? So obviously I'm not going to ever say that Jesus was unkind, because he was not. But let's suppose if Jesus just saw the man there, now he is the healer. So I'll get the logic of we're not the healer. But if Jesus saw the man and goes, huh? This Dude's been here 38 years. Dang, that's pretty. Sorry. Hey, here's two bucks and walks on his way. Was that kind or unkind?
- [39:10]
B
I guess it would depend on where the man was. Like if he needed, okay, some provisions or something like that. I don't know. It's hard to. It's hard to imagine a paralytic that's been there that long, I guess, in my mind. But I would say the kinder thing to do would be to help him into the water.
- [39:36]
A
Okay. At that. For us.
- [39:39]
B
Or have, have some, some sort of longer term plan for him instead of just dropping $2 into his bowl and walking on. Yeah.
- [39:52]
A
To figure out what could we do?
- [39:54]
B
Yeah.
- [39:56]
A
So maybe as human beings, we're not Christ himself that can go, hey, get up and walk. Yeah, okay. Is okay. You know what? Let's figure this out. Maybe what can we do to help you get into the water?
- [40:10]
B
Yeah,
- [40:13]
A
what could we do to help you and not just pass by, not grab the guy by the arm and go, hey, here's what you need to do. I'm going to go ahead and dunk you in the water and just put you in the water. Water's not stirred up. This isn't the healing right now. This isn't the time or the place.
- [40:36]
B
Yeah,
- [40:39]
A
okay, so. And then you would leave disappointed going, man, I solved the dude's problem. I drug him over to the water, dunked him in there, had to lift him out. Dude can't even swim. You know about drowned. And then leave going, forget it. I tried, I put him in the water, did nothing. He. He don't want no help. Did he not want help? Just wasn't the right time for it. And the help wasn't necessarily that person who drug him to the waters to do at that moment. Yeah, okay, so we look at that. But I will say, so then you go, maybe that wasn't the real help at that time. Maybe figuring out, hey, how can we get him in the water when it is the right time? That is help. I just can't see that not trying to help and initiate what was the problem that this person was facing and what could we do to possibly help with that, to bring him where the healing was. So like here again, we keep coming back to can't make anybody go here. And even here we're going to look and see in this. He didn't even say he wanted the help and still he got it. Yeah, you want to get well? He answered a terrible answer. I can't because blah, blah, blah, Jesus said, get up, I healed, you walk, and we'll go down. He's super excited because he walked and he goes and sees the religious leaders and wants to tell them about the miracle that occurred. We won't go down that. And of course the leaders say, oh my gosh, who healed you on the Sabbath? This is ridiculous. We can't be doing miracles and changing lives on a Sunday or whatever. Sabbath day. We won't get into that debate. Whether what day is the Sabbath and this and that. But you can't go down that path because it whole other discussion of, you know, again, we won't go down the discussion of how difficult it is for people that are stuck in these difficult places to watch somebody that healing and help comes their ways.
- [43:05]
B
Yeah.
- [43:06]
A
We get angry sometimes and we settle for. Okay, C.S. lewis says it. Why do we settle for wallowing in the mud puddle? It's because we can't envision the ocean that lies on other side of the hill. We just can't see. And it's not a fault. So this guy, he understood the limitations of what he could see and what he could understand, and he gave an absolute, solid answer that we could look back on it. And I'm going, it's the wrong answer. But it's the one I give day after day after day after day after day. It's the one our people that we're trying to serve here give day after day after day after day after day. Why have you been homeless for the last 10 years? I can't. I got a place, but lost it because of this. Had a job, lost it because of this. Nobody helps me. That's incorrect. Like, we don't know who. We don't know on this story. So all we know is that he got beat to the water. No one helps him more times than not. So in it, we're just kind of looking because this is another side of how difficult it is of trying to bring people into true healing and restoration. Because so much of it is that aspect of it. The healing and the restoration are outside of our control or our power.
- [44:55]
B
Yeah.
- [44:58]
A
So we have to understand that truth. Like, I am not. I can put somebody in substance use disorder treatment that even wants to go. I am not. The healing there. They will only find healing and restoration at that place if that is what they desire to find. We can put people in a house, drag them to a house, because we go, hey, I know this is the right thing for you. You need to be in a house because you're outside. Here's a house you don't have. You're not homeless anymore. Okay. If it is not the right time, if it is not the right place, okay. And if they are not ready for the help and the healing, it don't do no good.
- [45:44]
B
Yeah.
- [45:47]
A
Okay. So all of this is. We made a big circle is. It gets so difficult and so it's so complicated in these matters that we look at that you can't really make a blanket statement on all of these people that we come in contact with every day. That's the point. What we're trying to say. Why are you and I trying to fight this fight of. Of individual path to self sustainability? Big words to say individual people. Every scenario is different, right. Looking at what's occurring and what is going on and then really understanding the ability to look and see. Do you want to get well? And providing the options and the opportunities that put the person in the highest probability of meeting the true place where healing and restoration can occur.
- [47:01]
B
Right.
- [47:04]
A
So what gets so difficult and where you get into this complicated matter, which is not complicated, but it is complicated. We won't even go down that path. Whole other discussion. There's probably a whole other industry. There was industry and commerce and capitalism that was occurring around this pool of people. Make no doubt about it.
- [47:34]
B
Yeah.
- [47:34]
A
Very busy and people making money. And there was. There was all kind of things. There was a whole subset of industry that. I am over here. Somebody had to bring food to the paralytic dude. Somebody had to buy the food for the paralytic dude. Somebody had to keep them. Hey, I'm in the mat business. He needs a new mat. Hey, buy your mat over here. Get the Paralytica, Matt. Okay. Whole other commerce, whole other trade, whole other money occurring that's also perpetuating. If there's a whole lot. If you are the maker of mats around the pool of Bethsaida and you are really good at it and that's how you're supporting your family, do you really want all the people that are ill, lame and paralytic gone from there?
- [48:29]
B
No. No.
- [48:30]
A
You're out of business.
- [48:31]
B
Yeah.
- [48:34]
A
You're out of business. Now we won't go down that there's economics of it as well that complicate the matter. There's people that are there that really don't want the people that are there for the healing really to get well because it just puts a spotlight on the fact that they're not.
- [48:54]
B
Yeah.
- [48:56]
A
Okay. So they got that. So many factors that go into this. This world to see that it's complicated and that it's. Each one is. You must be looking at the individual person and what are the possibilities and options to provide the best support and care for this person that leads them to true restoration. It is not acceptable, I don't believe anymore, to look at people around this pond and go, ah, cool. Awesome. Here's your sandwich.
- [49:38]
B
Yeah.
- [49:40]
A
See you tomorrow. Okay. To. What could we do? How can we be kind? What are we doing that is leading people out of a paralyzed existence, into true life, into the unknown. Okay. How can we help facilitate that mentality? So, interesting discussion. We didn't make anywhere. And it's a complicated deal because we won't even go way down the path of how disappointed the paralytic guy could have felt. Even this. He had one simple question to ask. I mean, to answer one simple stinking question from the guy, that was the answer, and he answered it wrong even then. But luckily, the God that we follow and that we believe in would not find that as an acceptable answer. He didn't allow him to stay in that state. And so he said, no, get up. Not with that tone, because that's Jeff tone, not Jesus. He said, get up. Walk. Pick up your mat. This is not your existence anymore. So all that we do is, you know, you'd like to believe that the path that we're trying to go down is trying to lead people to healing. I don't believe it. You know, and to understand that we are not the healers, but we can help and to go and to look at this and to navigate what it looks like and what it is and what we're doing. So we're still going down this journey and looking at the story. Okay. And so I would tell each person out there, if you're listening to this, there's decent possibility that you're probably not homeless right now. And you go, well, that had nothing to do with me, because they were talking about homeless people. I'm saying, if you're listening to this, okay, I promise you this, that God himself is asking you the question, every one of us, do you want to get well? Don't know what's not making you or what is making you unwell? Don't know. Don't claim to. And maybe today you get maybe a millisecond that you sit there and you go, have I been answering this question with simply the reasons of why I am staying in the same place? Mmm. And to look at that and then to see that the commonality that draws us all together is not whether we have a house or don't have a house. It is this inability to get completely well on. On our own. Okay? Me, everybody here. And then also not necessarily sure that, you know, it is doable on our own, there's no fault. The paralytic did nothing wrong. It was not necessarily something he could do completely on his own. That's not bad. Okay? But that acknowledgement of that, for us to look at that and our own deal and to go, huh, interesting story. You know, interesting story. And to look at, how does it pertain here? How does it pertain to how we're interacting with individual people? How does it pertain? With each interaction we have during this day, we'll come across, what do you think? 200 people today, at least, that are very easy to look at and go, trapped, Trapped, paralyzed, blind, deaf. Not necessarily physically.
- [54:11]
B
Right.
- [54:14]
A
Pretty easy. So for us, it's a question you have to constantly be looking at and judging by. So did not solve anything. Interesting discussion, interesting story on that. And what it must felt like for that guy to take his first step in 38 plus years. That we know of. Yeah, that we know of. So out there, hopefully for you, there are some amazing steps that are in front of you that you can't even fathom yet. Whoever they are and whatever the steps they are, there's some incredible stuff. And sometimes as juvenile and as dumb as it is, they simply start with the question of, do you want to get well? So that is that. I hope you are out there and you realize that that question is posed to every person. And if you were listening to this, you are a person. And we would say here that every person matters. Okay? You matter. And like this, you would see that, like, just like in the story, Jesus looked and saw him in his infirmity. The guy did nothing to come to Jesus. Jesus saw him and came to him. So we would look at that. And that's still the same God that we are at today, that he sees us where we are and he comes and meets us where we are. And he meets us in our frailty, not in our strength, and knows the response before we even give it. So we would look, we're just kind of exploring here of what in the world. What in the world? Is the world gotten less complicated? More complicated? I don't know. But some of the same issues are still going on. So. Yeah.
- [56:27]
B
Yeah.
- [56:27]
A
And for all of you out there, we had a new guest that joined us today named Lily. We got Lily the puppy. So Lily is in Nancy's lap right now, asleep? Seems to be.
- [56:42]
B
Yeah. She's done pretty well for her first podcast.
- [56:46]
A
That's right. You didn't hear a word from her?
- [56:48]
B
No.
- [56:50]
A
So we will have her again next week and she will be sleeping again as long as Nancy has her. She is feeling really good.
- [57:00]
B
Yeah.
- [57:01]
A
Okay. So hope you're having a great day. I hope you are looking where you're at and what your condition is, and I hope you're really looking at what the questions that's being posed to you are and what the real answer is. Simple as that. Simple as that. So that is that we have lunch to go deliver here. A lot on the plate. Hope you are having a great week. Hope you are looking at this. Hope you look at the story again. This was John chapter 5 and it is like 1 to 7 ish that we went and looked at. So if you want to go look at it on your own and to look at the deal, I appreciate it and I hope everybody has a great day. Thanks a lot.