When Helping Hurts Pt. 2

Summary

---

The Collage Podcast

Episode: "When Helping Hurts Pt. 2"

Host: Feed My Sheep (Jeff)

Guest: Nancy

Date: April 20, 2026

---

Brief Overview

In this powerful continuation of their discussion, Jeff and Nancy dig into the deep complexities of helping individuals facing homelessness and trauma in Temple, Texas, focusing on the ongoing story of "YR." The episode moves beyond solutions and celebrates small (but critical) victories, while wrestling honestly with confusion, doubts, and the limits of what helpers can accomplish. The conversation is raw, humble, and driven by authentic care, recounting personal experiences, emotional moments, and the lessons learned about the nuanced nature of “helping” in a community where hurt runs deep.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Recap and Context (“YR’s” Story)

• YR’s Journey So Far ([02:02]–[03:31]):
  • YR has been on the streets of Temple for nearly a year, facing significant mental and emotional challenges.
  • Housing options were repeatedly offered, eventually leading to YR having her own apartment.
  • Parental involvement (from Waco) was a key turning point, though the process was fraught with unexpected outcomes and trauma.
  • Nancy: “It has been quite a struggle…The real sort of turning point was getting mom and dad to help us get her moved from the hotel into her apartment. And just sort of how that played out, not as we expected it to…”

Struggles After Housing

• Adapting to Change ([10:41]–[14:28]):

  • YR struggled to adjust to her new apartment; the emotional trauma of the move lingers.
  • She experiences difficulty with change, avoids communicating, and shows visible sadness, despite now having a safer living situation.
  • Nancy: “She’s had a really hard time grasping the concept of having her own place...she’s not speaking at this point.”

• Logistical Hurdles

  • Treatment programs require YR to come to them—barrier given her state.
  • Nancy seeks creative ways to reach her, such as getting a phone just for her to open up lines of communication.

The Complexity of Helping

• Emotional Impact on Helpers ([17:52]–[19:10]):

  • Both Jeff and Nancy acknowledge feeling concern, confusion, and uncertainty about whether the interventions are beneficial.
  • Nancy: “I don't think I did right by her completely by putting her there. I don't know.”
  • Jeff: “Would it be fair to say a possible accurate word would be...confused?”

• Community Responses ([19:20]–[21:20]):

  • Many listeners report the same confusion—grappling with what to feel, and whether the outcome is “success.”
  • Jeff: “Almost every one of them says, ‘I am so confused...It's such a wonderful thing that somebody cared about her...but I don't know if it's right.’”

The Ethics and Limits of Helping

• Questioning Saviorism and Expectations ([22:24]–[24:47]):

  • Nancy reflects on the temptation to “know best” for someone else and to assume authority over their life.
  • Nancy: “I will tend to think I know best for somebody...and what I have learned...is that I don’t know the history, the trauma...I don't know where they're at really.”

• Dangers of Oversimplified Success Stories ([25:21]–[28:53]):

  • Both criticize "feel good" stories and social media posts that end with a photo of someone entering housing, with no follow-up or real relationship.
  • Nancy: “Probably half of them are not going to make it...housing somebody is step one...if even that.”
  • Jeff: “How do you measure success? Is it a roof overhead? ...So complicated.”

Family, Relationships & Boundaries

• Family as Both Solution and Challenge ([28:54]–[34:51]):
  • The complexity of involving YR’s parents, the pain and history invisible to outsiders.
  • Helpers wrestle with whether to step back, despite their own judgments about family dynamics.
  • Nancy: “For me to think that I know best...to drive a wedge between them...is wrong. That's not my place.”
  • Jeff: “It’s their family.”

What Real “Helping” Looks Like

• Moving Away from Quick Fixes ([41:14]–[54:10]):

  • The team’s mantra: “We fix no one. We love everyone individually.”
  • The deepest help is presence, consistency, and letting people know they're loved—not changing their circumstances overnight.
  • Jeff: “If you believe that your job is to go fix everybody else's problem and you are the help for everybody's problem, you are sadly mistaken.”
  • Nancy: “The greatest help you did for her was consistently show her over a long period...that she had a place in your heart.”

• Walking With, Not Ahead Of

  • Helping is about supporting someone in their process, not dragging them through it.
  • Nancy ([54:01]): “I can offer support and help them in their own journey if I have the resources to do that for them...getting to the point of her being willing to allow me to walk with her has been a process. It has been a long one.”

Recognizing Complexity and Continuing

• Avoiding Overgeneralization ([46:22]–[51:51]):

  • Not all clients want the same thing; “secure” for one is “trapped” for another.
  • The team reflects on how their perspectives have changed over years, exchanging certainty for humble presence.

• It's Not About Outcomes, but Love ([62:29]–[64:01]):

  • Despite heartbreak, disappointments, and wrong turns, the one thing the team insists on is that people know they are genuinely cared for.
  • Jeff: “All we can do is the person should leave with the understanding that they really did care about me.”

Core Beliefs and Final Reflections

• The Absolutes ([68:32]–[71:10]):

  • Jeff and Nancy land on two truths guiding their work:
    1. There is a God.
    2. I am not Him.
  • The work is about showing love, not fixing, not saving—just loving relentlessly and sacrificing pride.

• Unreciprocated Kindness ([61:33]–[62:29]):

  • True community starts with “unreciprocated kindness and care,” offering presence in absence of thanks or visible progress.
  • Jeff: “How we truly change this whole world and this community… is profoundly caring for people in a way that they can’t even understand.”

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "I don't know that I did…right by her completely by putting her there. I don't…know."
  – Nancy, [18:49]

• "Almost every one…says, ‘I am so confused. What should I be feeling after listening to this?’"
  – Jeff, [20:04]

• "Housing somebody is step one. If even that."
  – Nancy, [26:53]

• "We fix no one. We love everyone individually."
  – Jeff, [41:30]

• "If you believe that your job is to go fix everybody else's problem and you are the help for everybody's problem, you are sadly mistaken."
  – Jeff, [41:14]

• "I can offer support and help them in their own journey if I have the resources to do that for them…the process…has been a long one."
  – Nancy, [54:01]

• "All we can do is the person should leave with the understanding that they really did care about me."
  – Jeff, [63:59]

• On foundational truths:
  Jeff, [68:59]:

  • “There are two absolutes in my world…There is a God. And I am not him.”

---

Memorable/Emotional Segments with Timestamps

• Trauma Story (“Ocean” and the foster home abuse): [04:58]–[08:29]
• Nancy's Doubt about ‘Helping’ YR: [18:22]–[19:01]
• Listener Feedback on Confusion: [19:20]–[20:59]
• Reflection on Fixing vs. Loving: [41:14]–[42:29]
• Dialog on Care, Relationship over Solutions: [54:01]–[55:08]
• Admitting Changing Perspectives: [50:01]–[51:51]
• Final Takeaway: Two Absolutes: [68:32]–[71:10]
• Pleas for Prayer/Community Involvement: [66:29]–[68:29]

---

Flow & Tone

The conversation is candid, humble, and at times raw—often circling back to confusion, humility, deep care, and the ongoing process of learning. Both speakers are open about past certainties fading as they accrue experience. Humor, vulnerability, and even dialogue about donuts and eclairs lighten the heavy material. The language is direct and conversational, affirming the value of presence and love over quick solutions.

---

Useful for Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

• This episode is a masterclass in the realities of community aid work—emphasizing how intention, outcome, and “help” don’t always align.
• The stories and emotions ground the principle that, at the end of the day, it’s about caring for people as individuals, not projects.
• If you’re a helper, a volunteer, or simply someone who wonders how to engage homelessness or trauma in your community, you’ll leave with more questions—but also with the sustaining truth that loving presence is the foundation.

---

Takeaways

• Helping is good, but assuming you have all the answers is not.
• True help is relational, patient, and rarely clean or Instagram-able.
• Accept confusion, uncertainty, and the lack of easy metrics for success.
• Stay committed to loving—fixing is not in our job description.
• Absolutes: There is a God. I am not Him. Everything else is complicated.

---

For ongoing stories: Pray for YR, HD, ‘Old School,’ and the helpers themselves—because everyone is in this together, learning and loving as best they can.

---

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Hey, we want to welcome everybody to another edition of the Collage podcast. We are glad to have you along today. I hope you're having a wonderful, wonderful day. Well, if you know or don't know, what we are going to do today is we're going to continue part two of the story we went in last week. So if you listen to that, then you'll know where we are. If you haven't at the end of the day, I mean, you can still take up today, and that's just fine. And the topic we're going to look at is there's an individual story that we kind of outlined last week and we being got Nancy in here again today because she was in part one. Hello.

[B]

Hello, Jeff.

[A]

Good to see you, Nancy.

[B]

Good to see you too.

[A]

Okay, so she was in part one and we were talking about a story, and Nancy was outlining this story of a young person here we call yr. She has a real name, but we're just, we're using that here. This is how we would know her between us and the people here, because we have a yr, we have an or, but just initials. It's a respectful way to talk about this person where we are not embarrassing this person because nobody knows.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. So kind of catch us up, Nancy. So somebody hasn't heard. Just give us a quick synopsis of where we were in part one of this story.

[B]

Okay, so part one, we talked about how she came to be in our world here and that she's been here almost a year. And over that time, just how we got to know her, some of the struggles that we had with housing with her initially and I guess just throughout the year, it has been quite a struggle. We've offered several options and finally have her in housing now after all this time. And have also been in conversation with her mother from the very beginning as well. And that, I think was the, the, the real sort of turning point with us and her was getting mom and dad to come to temple. They live in Waco, and help us to get her moved from the hotel into her apartment. And just sort of how that played out, not as we expected it to or not as I expected it to, but ultimately we were able to get YR into housing.

[A]

Okay, so that is. Is where we're kind of starting here to catch everybody up. YR has lived on the street here in. We're in Temple, Texas. Okay. So if you're out there. So that's where we are at. She's lived outside on the street here for A long time.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

She is not well, mentally. I'm not a doctor. You're not a doctor. So we're not making some diagnosis of her, but she has some difficulties, it would seem. Mentally, has a hard time. The story, we had some very sad interactions with her family. We looked at that. So we're not going to rehash that. And I will go on record. Okay, Nancy. Okay. In all the times that we've done these things, I've cried twice and I think we've done, I don't know, several hundred of these. Should cry. I mean, every day we should cry here. I cried once in the podcast a long time ago. The sound was terrible. We didn't know what we were doing. But the story was devastating. And it was about a young lady named Ocean.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was really sad in that one because it was just absolutely horrific to me. Because Ocean shared that when she was four. Yeah. Because her sister was two. She was four. She was sitting in here just as calm as could be. That they were at foster care and the foster mother at that time in the house that she was at was going to punish her because her and her sister and her was four years old. Sister was two years old. They had played with some toys that belong to the biological kids of the family. Have you heard this story?

[B]

I have not.

[A]

Oh, it's horrible. Horrible. Okay, so we're sitting here, we're same as we're having this interaction right here. Okay. She's sitting here and we're just talking because I asked the question was, tell me about one of the saddest times in your life. This was it. Okay, so the, the little two year old kid had had this little toy. Two year old kid had this toy and was playing with it and the foster mom came in. They weren't supposed to play with the biological kids toys because they weren't theirs. 4 year old kid had enough sense to realize, oh crud, my sister's fixing to be in bad trouble. I've got a protector. Four years old.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Okay. This is no made up baloney, okay? No made up baloney. Okay. This is as legit as anything we're going to get to. And so out of that she said, I was the one who took the toy. She took the punishment. And the punishment, same as we're sitting here. You know what the punishment was? What? She said the mother grabbed her hands and broke every one of her fingers.

[B]

Oh my gosh.

[A]

Okay. Exactly. And I said, what? And she said, oh, you've never noticed that about me. And she held up her hands and she said, look at this. And she held up her hands like this. I'm holding up my hand to you. Every one of her fingers right at the joint here is slightly diagonal because the mom grabbed each one of them right at the base. Broke it, broke it, broke it, broke it, broke it. Everyone. All of her fingers are slightly off kilter because they go at an angle because every one of them got broken that way. Four year old kid had every one of her fingers broken because she was agreed. Okay, I thought that. And it is. It is one of the cruelest things I've ever heard of. And you're sitting here and this is plain as we're talking. This. Well, yeah, no, that's. Yeah, it was really sad. Okay. Oh, yeah. All ten of my fingers got broken. And that wasn't even the worst of the travesties. Like, I mean, we're not even going to. We're not doing her story. About year and a half, they ate food out of a dog food bowl on the ground. Horrible. Horrible. I cried at that. And all I could say to her, sitting here, that was the only thing. Oh, my. Same. What did you say?

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. I'm so, so, so sorry. Yeah, that happened to you. It shouldn't happen. Second time not doing the podcast because the weight of what you said, I don't know if it didn't hit me as hard. I actually listened to the podcast. I don't know what that makes me. Like listening to your own podcast. I guess it makes me a viewer. So. Hey, we got one. So we. I listened to the podcast and when you talked about the moment of the dad sobbing his eyes out and the mom ripping into him, I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is horrible. Yeah, horrible. It shouldn't be like that. So we're not going there. But out of the story we left it and the gist of it, which is interesting. Okay. So interesting. That doesn't matter where you're listening to. But that was a week ago we did the podcast. Roughly. Okay. And now many people have asked me that, have heard this and have come to some of the same places we said these same things, which is, well, this story is good, but this story is bad. The story is really confusing about what in the world should I feel? So people are asking, okay, we're now a week ish from this story. Catch us up and tell me a little bit more about what you're feeling or what is going on and what

[B]

should people think I think that's the million dollar question. I am struggling with the same thing still as well.

[A]

Fair.

[B]

So she is still in her place. I've gone almost daily. I think there were maybe two days in the last week that I haven't gone by there to check on her. She's still there. I think the first night she went back to the hotel to try to. To stay there. And the owner, he's the one that

[A]

you had got her out of?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, got it.

[B]

The owner is, I would say, a good partner with us.

[A]

Fair.

[B]

And he told her, why are you need to go back to your apartment, you can't stay here any longer. So she did, and I think that was the last time she went to the hotel. But she's had a really hard time grasping the concept of having her own place. And I know just from experience with her that she doesn't do change well. So it's just a hard. Any sort of change is difficult for her to deal with. And then I think just the trauma of how we moved her was also difficult for her. And I think she sort of now associates that place with the trauma that she had to go through. Through to get there on some level, I think. And I'm having to really dig deep and try to figure out where her mind is because she's not speaking at this point.

[A]

Not speaking right now.

[B]

She's not. She hadn't been eating. I think we talked about that on the last podcast that she had not been eating. She is eating now and I only know that because I've been taking her food. And then when I get there, there's an empty food container. So I. I know she's eating something, but she's not talking. Usually when I go there, she's either sleeping or pretending to sleep.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

There have been, I think, two times that I've gone and she's been awake and she's just sat there and not said anything to me. So I don't really know what to make of that. I've had a hard time, I guess, navigating the relationship with her mom. Now I've been communicating with her via text a lot and she really wants us to get her into treatment. And the problem with that is the treatment won't come to the patient. The patient has to go to the treatment.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Just a part of the system. So unless I can get her to get in the car with me, which we know is a problem, I will not be able to get her to treatment because they won't come to her room. I also can't get her phone turned back on without her physically there with me.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

And I can't get her in the car to do that. So now I'm faced with just out of my pocket buying her a phone. I think that that would be something that would be like a breakthrough kind of moment for her, that we could. We could at least talk about things. If I give her the phone and strike up a conversation about how to use the phone or what the number is or literally any way that I can connect with her at this point is. Is really what I'm groping for. But there's no. There's not been any real communication with her since she's been in her apartment.

[A]

Okay. And just for people out there to understand. Okay. Because we know. I mean, I. I know the spots. You know the spots. Okay. The hotel she was in. Let's just say it's a 20 by 20 room, if it's even that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Bed, just in a bathroom.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. So it's. It's standard, very. Whatever. I won't say whatever. But it is a very small, older hotel room.

[B]

Right, okay.

[A]

Where we have moved her block and a half. Yes, Block and a half. So it's on the same street within a block and a half within view of the same place she was staying. So just for everybody out there, she didn't get moved to a whole other town. She didn't get moved to a whole other environment. Okay. She is in the environment. She knows. It's in a place that she knows. In a room that is comparable. It's probably a tad nicer and cleaner, but. Yeah, okay. But in the same realm, there's not a huge, big change. Night. Night. We didn't put her in a house in a whole other town. And she's now reeling and going, okay, it's. She went from oranges to oranges.

[B]

Right. It was. The apartment that she's in used to be a hotel room.

[A]

Yeah, agreed.

[B]

So it's laid out almost identical to the room that she was in.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So everybody out there, like you go, okay. It wasn't a huge environmental change.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay, so we got that. I just want to make sure. Because you go golly, she's in a whole other town. That would make sense. She doesn't have same people, same environment, the same everything right here. But not communicating with you right. At this time.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because of. We don't know. We can't answer. But possibly because it was a traumatic event that led to getting there. It was, it was.

[B]

Now, granted, over the time that I've known her, we've had this sort of off and on kind of relationship. Sometimes she's in a communicative mood and sometimes she's not. And I just kind of have to go with her flow of, you know, where. Where are we at today with Rach? Where are we at today with yr?

[A]

At least you're consistent.

[B]

And how can. How does she want to be communicated with?

[A]

Yeah, so.

[B]

So it's not anything that is unusual for her, but I would say the unusual part of it is the sadness that she has right now is there's more sadness than I've ever seen with her now.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes. And that's been over before we moved or even she was all the time. Yes. In a very, very dark place.

[A]

Very dark place.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so if you had to pick one word to describe your emotions today as it pertains to this moving of yr, at this point, the word that you would use to describe your feelings are. What would be the single word?

[B]

I would say just probably concern, maybe or. I don't know. It's hard to put one word on it. I'm very concerned about her. I'm really unsure that it was even the right thing that I involved myself in it at all.

[A]

Okay, fair.

[B]

I don't know that I did any. I don't think I did right by her completely by putting her there. I don't. I don't know.

[A]

Okay, so in it, what's interesting, would it be fair to say a possible accurate word would be Confused.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

Okay. We're still a little bit confused, perplexed, worried, concerned, but just uncertain.

[B]

Unsure.

[A]

Yeah, uncertain. You're going. Okay, so what is interesting is out of this part one, I have had numerous, numerous people that have contacted me. And almost without exception, almost without exception, they don't know each other. We got people from Louisiana, people from different areas of state. They don't even know this person remotely. And they come to the same word is. Almost every one of them says, I am so confused.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What I should be feeling after listening to this. And they almost all said, it is such a wonderful thing that she's in a place like she's safe. That is. That's wonderful. And it is such a wonderful thing. And then we'll say this. And people have said it. So you're going to love this one. They said, man, it's such a wonderful thing that somebody cared about her as much as Nancy did. I wish everybody in the world had a Nancy that was watching after and fighting for her. Almost everybody said, I'm so sad for the hurt that the father felt. I'm so sorry that yr had to feel this much hurt.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they all land almost to the same spot. I don't know if it's right. You can't say that it's not right because she's inside and she's safe. You can't argue possibly. Golly. Did it possibly do more damage than good? I don't know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Be hard one maybe to go to that place because, you know, if she stayed outside much longer, she's gonna get arrested in this town. I don't see her making it in jail well at all.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

I mean, that just would not. It just wouldn't work good for her. So out of this, are we trying to discourage people from helping? Is that the point of what we're doing here? Why do you think we're even telling why our story? Because somebody could get. They could misconstrue what we're even talking about. Like, so then in it, Knowing where you are now and how you're feeling. Okay. Not looking because we're still uncertain about her personal hurt. Would you do it again?

[B]

I would, but I would not go into it. And, and I think that this is really, you know, if we look back at all of the podcasts that we've done about helping people and it can sometimes hurt them, the common theme, it seems to me, and I, I will say just from my own experience, I will tend to think I know best for somebody.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

More than what they know best for themselves. And that I should be the one to make those decisions for them and involve anybody I think should be involved. And I think that everything is going to go the way it appears in my mind.

[A]

Fair.

[B]

And what I have learned, really, not just with rate, not just with yr, that one has sort of put an exclamation mark on it for me, but with others as well that I don't know. I don't, I don't know the, the history. I don't know the, the trauma that could be involved with getting these folks in, you know, involved in any way, shape or form. I don't know where they're at really, psychologically or emotionally. I think I can, I can draw from my own limited experience and maybe make some conclusions that I think I know where they're at in the spectrum of, you know, moving towards what we would call stability, but I really don't know. And I think that having the, the ego involved with it, that we're gonna get this person off the street and we're gonna do this and we're gonna do that and you know, look at us go. We're getting all these people into housing and running really cool reports with lots of pictures and all of that jazz that has the potential of being extremely destructive.

[A]

Agreed. That and destructive. Yes, I would agree. So you're getting into my whole realm of pet peeve. Absolutely. Drives me crazy. Drives me crazy. Is you want to. The point of all of this is not to look at one story. Is to just show how layered and difficult each individual story is here that we deal with.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Period.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. So this just happens to be one. We happen to be talking together. We happen to be here. I thought maybe it'd be interesting for people to see. Okay. So it drives me absolutely bonkers. Okay. Is you go look on other entities, whatever, nonprofits, whatever. Here it is. Social media. Woo hoo. Look at this. Here's gonna be a picture of her walking into apartment. This is so great. Look what we did today. This is awesome. In a place. This is great. This is wonderful. And then that's the last you see of the picture.

[B]

And I can, I can even point that finger at my department. Like we've had this tenant based rental assistance program and we've been getting people into housing and you know, have 33, I think housed at this point mostly from the line here at Feed My Sheep. But you know what? Probably half of them are not going to make it.

[A]

Going to be so in it. This is where it gets confusing.

[B]

Yeah. Now not saying that all 33 of them didn't deserve the opportunity. Not saying that at all. But what I'm saying is, and like with yr, that is only the beginning.

[A]

Agreed.

[B]

Housing somebody is step one.

[A]

If even that.

[B]

If even that.

[A]

Like so in it. And we're not discounting that at all like that. So in it will not. I mean there is this discussion. At least we can. There is some sleep tonight. Because I can't say this enough times. Her door open, locks like nobody can get in there uninvited on the street. That is not true.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. Not ever. Are you going to hear an argument from me going whoo. Nope, don't do that. Because no. Got a safety and protection for those that are unable to protect themselves.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

Huge.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

But in it, it's interesting to look at far more so out of these 33 that need to be great life changing opportunities that got presented to Them. You can't make anybody. Like, we've already had this. You can make somebody. You can't make them take advantage of the opportunities if that's not something they want to do.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. So. So we're looking at that. Because mine is like, oh, it's so easy, you know? And I keep coming back somebody, how do you measure success? Well, is it a roof overhead? We've said this, I guess. Was that a success or not? If she's in the place this week and not next week, is that a success? Is that a failure? So complicated.

[B]

So complicated.

[A]

So complicated.

[B]

And mom wants to come back to town.

[A]

Okay. That's a whole other complication.

[B]

And I feel like I have to get out of the way of that. Which.

[A]

Agreed. Which is so, like, on that. Okay. If anybody's listening to part one. Okay. So you and I have had this. We had this discussion earlier, and at the end of the day, like, you and I said, yes, whether I like it or not, that's their family.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and so there was no physical abuse that you'd go, oh, my gosh.

[B]

Right.

[A]

She has no right to be. She didn't beat her. She didn't break any crime. She just wasn't nice. Yeah, she wasn't nice.

[B]

And there again, you know, I. I went in with my own set of expectations of what I thought a mother, daughter relationship should look like and how that interaction should have gone. And there's 38 years of history in that relationship that I am completely unaware of. And for me to think that I know best how everything should go and think that I should have the authority in this situation to drive a wedge between them or, you know, or get in between them in any way, shape, or form is wrong. I mean, I. That is not my place.

[A]

And how easy is it to come to be able to say that sentence?

[B]

Not at all.

[A]

Agreed.

[B]

I see her as this just broken, sad girl that needs love and nurturing. And I. It's. It's really, really hard to come to that conclusion.

[A]

Yeah. Because you and I talked about it today, right? Oh, heck, no.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Don't let her come into this picture.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Was first sentence. And then like, crud, yeah, that's her mother. And then we would say here. The thing then where you get even more confusing is that we would say one of the biggest things that we are dealing with with these people is catastrophic loss of family and belonging. And then now you've got a mother and a father who. Father cares about her.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So you'd go Deeply hurt in this. Can't argue on him. There's no criminal record that we have that would say they've abused her in any form or fashion.

[B]

Right. Nor has she ever mentioned.

[A]

Never, never, never ever. So we're not putting her.

[B]

Speaks very well of her parents.

[A]

That's right. And they are middle class America.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Very strong spiritual people in their belief system. They have a lot of other siblings that they're taking care of. Well.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

We just happen to see one that is not right in our eyes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so like even today, mom was going to come down and we're like, no, don't let her come down, man. That's going to put why over the edge. You can't have her belittled again.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But then we're like, is it our place to say no, it's your daughter.

[B]

And for the last almost year we've been praying.

[A]

I agreed.

[B]

God, please let this girl's parents get involved with her. They live 30 miles away.

[A]

How many times you think we've said that?

[B]

Oh my gosh, so many.

[A]

Okay, agree.

[B]

So many.

[A]

So in that we have said that sentence, I can't even tell you. I mean, like Nancy, good gosh, get this lady to drive stinking 20 miles down here. I said it over and over.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why is she asking you to go get her a phone? She's 20 miles away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Drive down here. Why are you trying to get this girl off the street? This lady needs to come over. This is her daughter. Drive the 20 miles down here and come take the girl yourself. It's your daughter said it over and over and it was a right answer. And then today, what did I say? No way. Don't let her get down here. She doesn't have any. I'm like, hold on. Yeah, confusing.

[B]

Confusing. Yeah, confusing. Using is definitely the right word.

[A]

Yeah. And so you look at this and complicated and concern and trying to navigate because we're talking about a human being that is in a very delicate fragile state.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Really hurting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so we got that. And then. So that's something for people to see. It's just, it's so confusing. I can't even speculate what a month from now looks like six months now. I couldn't tell you a year from now. Absolutely couldn't. There's not a chance that I could look and say, hey, this is what it's. Oh, man, one year from now, this is what it's going to be.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is what the answer is.

[B]

I definitely do want to just backtrack for a second and say it is good to help.

[A]

Oh, great. Okay.

[B]

Now it is good to try to help people to get into housing and safe.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

However, I think what I have learned, and I won't speak for anybody else, but I think what I have learned, and I'm still learning, I learn every day here. Every day I learn something, is that I don't have all the answers. I don't know the best route for people to take. I don't. I should never assume to know that family members should be invited into a situation, and I certainly shouldn't try to intervene in some point on their behalf in that. In that realm. And I won't do that anymore. So I think. Helping. Yes. Assuming you've got all the answers and assuming that you know what's best for somebody else.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

Absolutely not.

[A]

There's some avenues that clarity is fair game to present. You know, somebody who is addicted to meth. It is fair game, I think, to present. There's better options out there for you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. I can't make the person take the option, but it's fair game to say you don't have to live like this. There's better.

[B]

Yeah. And I think the fruits of whatever the thing is will also be a good indicator as well. Like, we had a pretty alarming situation yesterday speaking of drug use causing mayhem.

[A]

Oh, you're gonna go there.

[B]

I mean, that's okay.

[A]

Agree.

[B]

That's a big part of. Of the conversation that, you know, you know, we have to. There has to be a point where we can look at somebody and say those words like, you don't have to live like this. You don't have to be here in this situation doing these things anymore.

[A]

Yeah. What's interesting, like, even in this journey that we've been on here, we've been discussing this stuff, we started this little deal because it's got me perplexed to no end is what does it truly look like to help somebody? And what does it look like when you think you are doing something for somebody and you're actually hurting them?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's where we started. We're a gajillion podcasts into this little jaunt because it started with we had a young lady here who's now different young lady that I was passionate. Still will stick to that. That what we were doing in entities and individuals here was hurting her. It was putting her in terrible spot by allowing her to stay exactly where she was in enabling some poor decisions that we were helping facilitate. Well, yeah, you can Sleep underneath this building and I won't tell anybody. I will do this for you and I'll do that for you. We called that helping. And it was truly hurting her. I know for a fact. I mean, I know on that. The finite truth is in this. Hey, here's extra bottle of water for you. Hey, here's the meal I'm going to deliver on Tuesdays to you. And eat up. We allow these things to occur. The lady in that genre, time, she got raped, she got ravaged in horrible ways. That occurred was not helping her. We stepped in and were able to make some changes for her. Different story that helped get her possibly back online and off of the streets. Not by choice. Different story. Very difficult story.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. She got arrested because we know her. And with just a little bit of clarity and away from stuff here, she was able to get her head straight. She's now in a whole other town. She's working. She has her own place. She is clean. She's doing like she is doing. Story's not over. Doing well. And she came back. Now she's decently well. She came back and not. That was unprovoked and unsolicited. Came back and gave me a big hug and said thank you. Because I wouldn't have got myself out of this place on my own. Okay. That's help again.

[B]

Relational.

[A]

Relational.

[B]

It took you a long time.

[A]

A lot of years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But even in that. Even in that. So I would say. I would look at that story and say, man, we helped. Real help. There's others that think I was diametrically wrong for what we did and I'm evil. They're not even here anymore because of the decisions that we have to do this and we did it this way. They choose to go help in a different place.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They have every right to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So what we're saying here is if anybody comes here and in this pop in humans, I'd say humans as a species, if you believe that your job is to go fix everybody else's problem and you are the help for everybody's problem, you are sadly mistaken.

[B]

That is absolutely right.

[A]

Sadly mistaken.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So we have a sign around here that you may see. Not that we have the end with all and we have it. And now it makes it even more clear to me, we. We fix no one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We love everyone individually. Not a blanket, oh, you know this. Now it gets more and more complicated, but more and more simple at the same time. Blanket statement of I love the homeless. What have you said?

[B]

Right.

[A]

I love yr. Like you said last week, whole other sentence. They're not even saying remotely the same thing. Oh, I love the homeless. Every time I see one at a street corner, I give them $5. Oh, I love the homeless. You know, I saw one written on a car. Oh, so and so loves the homeless. She gives us a sandwich every week. Is that loving the homeless? If. And it may be. I can't answer for the people. Okay. I just don't see it as such.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm saying if somebody out there thinks that you only help people because you believe you're going to have some feel good moment tied into it and you're going to have this Hallmark, everybody, lovey dovey, come and run and hug and kiss. And we're going to have this beautiful balloons going in the air and stepdad or dad from 50 years ago pops in the picture and grandpa comes in and hugs on the girl. And all these relationships are now tied up well at the end of the two hour Hallmark movie.

[B]

If only it could be that easy.

[A]

If only it was that easy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So if you think you're coming in. Ooh, okay. And we even said it, man, I believed. How could it not be?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That they would come and they would have this beautiful moment and they would share and they'd be so glad to see their daughter again and know that she was. Well, she got her own place. You'd like to believe this week she recovers from the bad moment there and she is now able. She should be, there should be a part of this going, hey, when I walk in that room, she should be jumping up and hugging me because I did this for her. It ain't so. No ain't so. You know, and then in it, it can almost feel slightly like a beat down a little bit and anybody out there listening going, oh my gosh, you got to go into this room. The girl won't even speak to you anymore. Because at this particular moment today.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Her perception is maybe you haven't done right by her.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which couldn't be further from the truth.

[B]

I don't know though.

[A]

Okay. Fair.

[B]

Is it, Is it further from the truth?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I don't either.

[A]

I don't know. And so but what we're, we're getting to is, is I think the grandest disservice we could have done to her is nothing.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

If we did nothing and we looked upon her and said, ah, I'm going to pretend I don't even see you. Worst thing you could do or she's

[B]

too far gone, she's beyond help. I'm sure all of those things have been said about her at some point. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And so in it, sometimes you do the right thing simply because it's the right thing and there's no expectations of reward or any of these things that are going to come along with it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Should we would like to believe in this world, it's sort of like you got a six year old daughter at the house and she's wanted a pony her whole life and you walk into the house with a pony, how is she going to respond? She'd go, oh my gosh. That moment you'd like to believe somebody who was without a house and now has a house that's bigger than a pony. You would think, you would think. You would like to believe after day one, maybe too big. Because you see some of these kids, they're like, you know, you can't process what has just occurred and they kind of freeze up. But then all of a sudden they realize, oh crud. Maybe the day later, this is my pony.

[B]

Yeah. I think that's a, that's another thing that I've really struggled with as well, you know, from my limited field of experience. Having a house is a good thing. Being able to go home someplace and sleep in a bed and close the door and lock it and feel secure is a good thing. But for our clientele, that's not always the case.

[A]

Fair. What does that mean?

[B]

They have a different understanding of what secure is and what, what safe is. Why are. While she does have a lock on her door, I would say five times out of seven that I've gone over there, the door's been open.

[A]

Yeah. She doesn't shut doors.

[B]

She does not shut the door.

[A]

Okay, agreed. Whole other.

[B]

So she's got, there's something in her, in her field of experience that says not being able to get out of this place is a bad thing.

[A]

Okay, agreed. So this one perplexes me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And we do know her track record a little bit.

[B]

A little bit.

[A]

There is some violent sexual crimes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That have been perpetrated on her.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

In her past. Like some men have done really wrong by her. That's a fact.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's charges on that. We alluded to. We believe something has occurred recently around here. We don't know that. But there is fact that in her past something very bad is. I say the sentence because I'm again, using my lens of understanding. I forgot about that tidbit. Even at the other Hotel. The guy that ran it would always come and tell me, like, and she was there. Every time she's in a room, she would never shut the door.

[B]

Right.

[A]

She left it wide open. She would not shut a door.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Why you think that is?

[B]

In my she shed, she was the same way. I think it's just not wanting to be closed in.

[A]

Agreed. And what do you think might have happened in a locked room, possibly in a hotel, to her?

[B]

Something really bad.

[A]

Something really bad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That she couldn't get out and she couldn't get away from, and she ain't gonna let that happen again. So me, I'm going, oh, at least she's got a room that locks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She ain't locking that door.

[B]

And I think we've had clients that have said as much. You know, I would rather be outside in a tent. I would rather be sleeping in someone's backyard. I would rather be out on my own without having to be responsible or answer to anybody because it's just too much pressure. It's too much responsibility. It's too much whatever. So what we see as being, you know, this awful. Yeah. Being outside exposed to the elements and not having a roof over your head or a soft bed to sleep in is just the end of the world. But that's. That's a blanket statement. That is incorrect.

[A]

Okay. Can I pick on you? Of course.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Fair. Okay. I have to chuckle. What I chuckled about is I look back on some of the conversations we had. Let's go. Four years ago.

[B]

Yeah, man. Would you have given the same answer, different Nancy Glover? I would not.

[A]

No.

[B]

I would say we need to house them all. We need to build tiny homes for every one of them, give them all a key, have a housewarming party. They're gonna love it. That's what they all need.

[A]

It'd be cute, period. Yep.

[B]

No if, ands, or buts about it. And the future would work itself out.

[A]

Agreed. And there's going to be ramifications if they don't follow the rules to a T. Right. Okay. We got to do that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then, hey, let's get them all. We got to do this. Problem solved. Done. On to the next one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I'm not saying I'm far off from that. I'm like, okay, now with it. We're not. We're not discounting that. There's got to be options for people. Yeah, there must be. Now with. We're not discounting that. We must provide the options. We are going to build a homeless community to live In.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. So that will occur. We are doing at the farm what we are learning and seeing is this topic is so complicated and it is an individual by individual basis.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. And so what I want people to see is not. We are not saying. We are not even remotely alluding to it. Okay. A matter of fact, if anybody would go up. I don't. Whatever. Nancy's not saying don't help. Nancy is saying I believe passionately about this. I'm retiring from this job to be even more committed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

About putting personal investment in people's lives. Okay. So we're not telling if anybody's listening to this and saying, oh, cool. They are saying got the green light to not truly help or invest in people deeply. We're not even remotely coming that way, are we?

[B]

No, not at all.

[A]

Not at all. We're not saying that. We're saying it is confusing and complicated.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

We're not the end with all. We are not the answers. You know, we can care. We're today like Nancy is. We won't even go down name. So we went from that one and the one she's working on with today. Maybe even more complicated and difficult even than the other one.

[B]

Yeah, I'm afraid so.

[A]

Agreed. And then that one and then the other one that we had. You're going even more complicated and difficult than that one and this one over here who can't come on the property anymore. Even more difficult and complicated than the. All different.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But all needing so much help.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. And so then all we're going to end and come to the place of. Okay, I will say this. So this is a nice easy question. Just softball pitch for you. Ready?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

When you come into. When you come into work here tomorrow or wherever you're going to work because you're still working at another office as well. So when you come to feed my sheep at some point, are you going to buy yourself or even with help from others, are you going to fix anybody tomorrow?

[B]

No, not going to fix anybody.

[A]

Not even going to fix anybody.

[B]

No.

[A]

No. Can you help somebody?

[B]

I can sure try.

[A]

And what does that mean?

[B]

I can offer support and help them in their own journey if I have the resources to do that for them. This the client that you were talking about just now, as of for instance, she has to make the decision to follow through with this process. There are lots of parts of the processes of all the things to get an I.D. it's a process to get your income verification paperwork is a process to get your housing application Submitted is a process to gather all of the supporting documentation that's needed and to trust somebody with all of that is a process. It's not. There's nothing that's going to be cut and dried with this. And getting to the point of her being willing to allow me to walk with her has been a process. It has been a long one.

[A]

Okay. So that's one of the tenants that we must.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

We must establish is these things are not quick fixes.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They take time. They take relations. It's almost like human interaction. Whoa. Crazy concept. Crazy concept. And maybe even more so in that a lot of the people that we are working with are dealing with some terrible traumas and terrible things that have occurred to them. That they are not apt to trust people or believe that. That their sentiment is true.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So you got some obstacles in the way. The one that we just were alluding to, she's been. So many things have not worked out. Her initial take on you is, I ain't gonna trust you because everybody else promised me all this and that and nobody done nothing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. Relationships. Okay. So I would say in it, somebody out there listening, you go, well, crud. What can we do to help? Okay. Providing donuts. That's good. I guess we need donuts. You know, somebody providing meals. That's good.

[B]

If we could have a more nutritious breakfast, that would be great though.

[A]

Like. Like apple fritters. No, no eclairs because those are like French and they got that yellow stuff inside of them. They're really good. So out there. Swear down. So like that to disregard. We're gonna. Hey, Aaron, can you edit that last sentence where Nancy said we want more nutritional stuff than donuts? Because she was mistaken on that sentence. But ready. What we're saying is you want to help somebody here. Financial. That's great. We need that. Okay. The greatest thing you did to help yr is whether or not she stays in the places and the options that we think are the best for her. Can't control that. But what we can do. The greatest help you did for her was consistently show her over a long period of time that you truly cared about her and that she had a place in your heart.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She was loved. What did we say on there? You left this thing and it was. She saw an example of care and concern and hurt for her.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Best thing you could do to help her.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The one you're working with today? Can't tell you. Matter of fact, I could. Well, I've been wrong. I told you she wasn't going to show up today and she did. Okay. The process to get her to get the many steps that are necessary to get into a place gonna be huge.

[B]

I think with her, I am even more determined to break the barriers. Yeah. She's got a lot of things that she holds really close to her and she doesn't want to let anybody in. She doesn't want to trust.

[A]

Agreed. She doesn't want to wonder why that is.

[B]

Allow. Yeah. That. That opportunity for someone to hurt her again. And that's really what I want her to know at the end of the day is that she has a safe space with me, that I want to be a friend for her. I want to be someone that she can come and talk to. Like today she just asked me for random advice, which I loved and I

[A]

thought, not about donuts and breakfast foods, correct?

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Okay. Puppies.

[B]

Not about that either. But she did offer to dog sit for me.

[A]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[B]

But I do want her to know that she's. That she is cared about. Like, like you said, that. That. That's really the. At the end of the day, what we want all of these folks to know is that we really do genuinely care. And if they need housing, we want to try to help them.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Find their way to housing. If they need medical care. If they need substance use. Yeah. If they need to try to reunite with a family member.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

That is a constructive good relationship for them, then by all means we want to try to help facilitate that.

[A]

Because we care about it.

[B]

Because we care. Yeah.

[A]

Not because they're broken and I want to fix them.

[B]

Right. And certainly not for some report at the end of the year.

[A]

True. Interesting.

[B]

And no. The Nancy of four years ago would not have said that.

[A]

No. No. Interesting. Nor would the Jeff. Complicated. What? Being kind and caring about to a person. So complicated.

[B]

Yeah. Very.

[A]

Even in our all relationships, you start looking. It's so complicated. But the way the game changes and it's juvenile sounding so stupid. I understand it like if somebody's listening to this, they're gonna go, that's stupid. That's so easy. Dumb. How we truly change this whole world and this community that we're at is profoundly caring for people in a way that they can't even understand.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Well, that's dumb. You're just going to love the homeless problem away, huh? If we say the number one thing that we are addressing, and I am getting stronger and stronger and stronger and stronger in this Camp is we are about providing community and belonging. You cannot provide that without an understanding of providing at the start unreciprocated kindness and care.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You open yourself up on this side and allow hurt to come in at some moments, Disappointment to come in at some places. We have yet to have hardly anything that we've done. Some moments you just start thinking about, oh, we got this one. Her boyfriend beat the ever living tar out of her and went to the bathroom over all her clothes and she's going to leave him. And we got the great answer.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We're gonna go put her out at the farm.

[B]

That was disappointing weekend.

[A]

Disappointing weekend.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was such a right thing to do. You went and the house was decorated nice and it was beautiful and we had everything set up to go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Lasted a day, I think two. Okay then. But back in the week and no more.

[B]

Again, right.

[A]

Back with the boyfriend.

[B]

Yeah. Still.

[A]

Still. I know. And you're like, why?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So disappointing. Does that person know that you cared about her?

[B]

She does. She does.

[A]

Yes, she does. So then you would go, did we do all that we could do? All that we can do? Okay. We're going to come to. All we can do is the person should leave with the understanding that they really did care about me.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

That's all we can do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I've had some bad, bad interactions and discussions with people and say, by the way, whatever. Even on the negative side, you can't come back here because of this. Even with that, they may not like my decision. They may not like this. I guarantee it. Even in those interactions, I still talk to some of the people. I guarantee in those they're still going to go, hey, he cares about me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't like him. Everybody knows then there's always treats me square. Yeah, I screwed up. I deserve that. All we can do is show these people that we work with that they are people. And we're saying we're trying to cure and work on community and loneliness and these things that are catastrophic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In our world right now. We were not even going to go into like. It's devastating. We live like as we record this. We don't know. Okay. This is the day that suppose that 8pm our time tonight. We're not going to go into politics, but this is the world that we live in. 8pm tonight we might as a country, we are proudly saying we are going to destroy a whole civilization.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then we have another group that's saying we're going to get all of our children and women in our community to form human chains around these, our power systems.

[B]

Targets. Yeah.

[A]

All our targets. So whenever you do this, you're going to kill a whole bunch of. That's the world of unkind that we live in. And you're like, what in the world?

[B]

Yeah, what in the world?

[A]

What in the world? So here all of this is to come. It's everybody out there. And if nothing else, out of the YR story. I've also gotten tons of people, lots of people that said, I am praying for her now. She's not alone.

[B]

Now that is success.

[A]

That is success.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Her story is known even if you don't know her name. She is not a Facebook circus animal that you can put out there and present to anybody. And, oh, look at this picture of this lady.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Great success. Great success. Hey, click on the donut button. Donut button. Donate button. Because donuts are bad, according to Nancy Eclair's good. Donuts bad. Okay. So kolaches.

[B]

Kolachi is better than a donut, I would think.

[A]

Breakfast tacos.

[B]

Not breakfast tacos. Yeah. Could do breakfast taco.

[A]

Nice. Breakfast sandwiches.

[B]

Mm. Especially the ones from Cafe Soleil.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Oh, my goodness. They know how to do a breakfast sandwich at Cafe Soleil.

[A]

They do. Okay. So out of this, everybody out there. YR is in her room still.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And she still loves her deeply, very much. Nancy's still going to fight the fight tomorrow, but we're learning.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's tough

[B]

trying to learn.

[A]

Trying to. That's it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Every day, you know, I've. Well, all I can say is, out of all of this stuff, when I first started, I knew it all completely.

[B]

Yeah, man.

[A]

I knew it. Solid. I was.

[B]

Those were the days, weren't they?

[A]

Weren't they? I knew it. Right? 100%. 100% right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the more I've done it, okay. The more confused I sometimes get, you know? And then I've landed on the simple thing. Okay. Only thing I come to is two irrefutable truths. Because I do believe there must be truths in this world. Absolutes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. There are two absolutes in my world. And then outside of that, everything else is a little bit of a variable depending on what the absolutes that I build everything upon simply are this. There is God, right? There is a God that is a truth, that is an absolute. I live with. That is the cornerstone premise of everything. And then I also live with a variable of that. So then in it, that God defined himself as love. But then that gets a little bit variable. So the absolute is there is a God number two. I'm not him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Everything outside of that. And so then I know that there is a God. I know he desires for people to. To live life and life abundantly. I know these things to be true. Variable.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. And so here we would look at that and you go, golly, I don't know. Okay, so then I would. Then if my absolute is, there is a God, and I believe that we're supposed to love others, so then I at least have to go, okay, what does that mean? Well, then I would say this is how we know what love is. Christ laid down his life for us, and we should lay down our lives for others. That's how you know what love is.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

We live in that. We're not in the fixing business. We're in the loving business. We're trying to be kind. We're trying to figure out what that means. We're trying to figure out how to keep this God where he would somehow feel he is being reflected. Well, yeah. You know, and stay within that absolute. Because there's some that are going to go, you're not. And some that are going to say, you are in this town could care less. Could care less. So we just stay consistent to the path. And the gift that we gave yr is you gave her your heart and you gave her the biggest move that was is she had a place to come and feel safe. And that was within you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The one that you're working with today. You know, how was it on the weekend? She was like, you ain't got nothing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You ain't got nothing you can give me.

[B]

Not having it agree on Saturday.

[A]

And now we're at Wednesday. And it's not to the promise of what you're going to do for her. It's you're beginning this relationship of, yeah, I guess I can trust her a little.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's called care.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

It's care. So that is that. Okay, Nancy, we did this. We now realize that if we just would have stopped four years ago, we'd had everything solved by now. So we are trying and we're looking at that and we're going to try to maybe the next little bit get some other people to try to come and say, what in the world, you know, we got Brian who's come and said, we got but different people to come. What can we do? You know, and to look at this and all of you out there pray for yr. Yeah. And hope that that things crud I don't even.

[B]

And please pray for hd.

[A]

Oh, yeah, That's a good initial for her.

[B]

Uh huh.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah,

[A]

I will like that. Okay. She makes me smile every day.

[B]

And can we pray for old school?

[A]

Oh, yeah. Well, that's a whole other story.

[B]

Yeah. But just suffice it to say that one needs prayer.

[A]

Nancy got to see. This might be your first time.

[B]

It was that.

[A]

She got to see how horrible our world can be. And an older gen. He's old. Don't mean any offense to that. He's upper 70s.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And two young dudes up here decided in the street that they're gonna beat him and kick his head in, bust out his teeth.

[B]

Mm. It was awful.

[A]

Horrible, horrible. And then I got to try to stop the bleeding, get the paramedics here, try to find his teeth, try to get him to press charges with the police, try to do all that stuff. Whole other deal. Whole other deal. But gosh, dog, just pray for him. Agreed. It's a butt kicking.

[B]

Like I would say. I would say pray for the staff.

[A]

Agreed here that every day.

[B]

Every day.

[A]

Yeah, every day. Every day. And it ain't like if we got a day that is just one horrific story that you witness. And you not just. Oh, no, you see them. Faith to faith, like it's. And these are people, you know, if you had one that never occurs. There's numerous. Yeah, numerous every day. And you're like, So many people need to know that they are cared for and need to know that they are loved and need to know that they have sort of a place that they can be safe. So we're trying.

[B]

Yeah,

[A]

we're trying. But yeah, we pray for old school. That's a whole other discussion. That would be an interesting one.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Because, man, what I wanted to do.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

It ain't right. Some of the things that go on here.

[B]

Yeah. We've talked a lot about how. Helping. How to help people, and I think a good one would be what is real justice.

[A]

Oh, my gosh, don't.

[B]

And how to. How to achieve that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So that's a whole other discussion. Justice

[B]

topic for another podcast.

[A]

Yeah. Probably won't put that on the podcast because I don't want the evidence to be used against me in the court of law. So that. But just for the record, this is just joke. This is humorous. Okay. This situation, we had it. We know who. We know who did it. We know. We saw the video. We know it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And.

[B]

And came back today, apparently.

[A]

Agreed. This is gonna get handled I'm fixing. So. But just. This is humor. This is joke. Okay. We did call the law because that was the right thing to do. And I. Jokingly. It's a joke.

[B]

You've said that several times. For the record.

[A]

For the record. Joke. Ha ha. I said, casey, who works here, Casey, did you call the police? And he's like, yeah, they're coming. And I said, crap. We might not have. Should have called the police on this one and we could handle it. Wrong. That was a joke. Ha ha. There's a police report. That was a joke. You know, but you get some. Again, confused.

[B]

Yes. And we've talked some about righteous anger.

[A]

Oh, righteous indignation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is there. Should we. Man, you're getting us. We're going to be two hours later on this one. That's a whole other. Okay.

[B]

We'll start making a list of podcast topics.

[A]

Well, we need to discuss righteous indignation. There should be things in this world that anger us that you couldn't just tolerate and go, oh, that's all right. Oh, that's so sweet. No abuse to children in the sexual nature or physical nature should anger every person in this community.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

You should not be able to watch and think of these things and go, ah, yeah.

[B]

And abuse of elders.

[A]

Agreed. Righteous indignation. Things that you should. I would even argue it is unjust to watch these things and not be angered.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We can look at some biblical stuff,

[B]

but abuse of women.

[A]

Abuse of women of.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Selling drug.

[B]

People that are mentally incapacitated.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Preying upon the vulnerable. Popul. These things should anger us for sure.

[B]

And there are predators around here.

[A]

Agreed. Agreed. Whole other top. That'd be a whole other. Maybe we'll have a heated one and we'll talk about righteous indignation and we'll bring some people in because I have to get somebody to keep me calm. Because you watch about all the wolves that pray around in this area.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's horrible.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm not the judge in the jury, and I am not God. So then again, I have to come back to the absolute truth, which is there is God, and I am not him. So I am not, at the end of the day, the one who has the right to pass judgment and to do what I think is right to do.

[B]

All right. Unfortunately.

[A]

Unfortunately. Because I would have the. Dude, I would have. I would. If it was a different world. Okay, how long we been going? Oh, dad, come. It's time to go. Well, we will cut it on that. This. An hour on this one. Okay, so apologize for the random wandering on. Nancy's got to get on to church. It's Wednesday, isn't it?

[B]

I think it's Tuesday.

[A]

Oh, good gracious. I don't know. Okay, well, we appreciate everybody out there. Hope you're having a good day. Sorry for this rambling. Keep praying for wire and keep helping, but help by loving.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and then everybody out there, start at the place of realizing that you are worthy of being loved because you can't love others if you can't love yourself first.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and so start with there and going, you know what? I can find that place. And then to realize your job is not to help everybody. Your job is to care.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

To care. That's all we're saying. Look. See what's going on. Care. Next week, we're going to look Righteous indignation, and we're going to look at. Maybe you should be disturbed. Maybe we're going to move on from being kind to saying it's not all right to be all right with everything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm not all right tonight with thinking about a whole civilization might have the right to. To be blown up. No, That's a whole other discussion. I just can't get it processed in my head right now that that's all right.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

And I'm not all right with the fact that people do bad things to people here in Temple, Texas. And I'll start there. So that's it. We are done. Nancy's going to get on, and you got to take it to the house, and we're done.