Transcript

Host (0:00)

Yes, that was David Kaufman. He joins us. Editor and columnist at the New York Post and a regular writer for the Telegraph, the Spectator, Air Mail and the Forward, and an adjunct fellow at the Tel Aviv Institute. Welcome, David. By the way, you mentioned, you know, I think the most. The best. I guess the best description of just how horrifying it was to be a slave was that I've read was 12 Years a Slave. The book, not the movie. I don't know if you read the book.

David Kaufman (0:30)

I didn't. I didn't read the book. I saw the movie, of course, but.

Host (0:33)

The book I would recommend to anybody that. So interested in that.

Co-host/Interviewer (0:37)

And by the way, it just made me think so I didn't. I didn't know that you were half African American till I. Till I just met you. Imagine.

David Kaufman (0:44)

Full of surprises.

Co-host/Interviewer (0:45)

Imagine if you and I had an argument about something.

David Kaufman (0:48)

Yeah.

Co-host/Interviewer (0:49)

And let's say it was a. What are you talking about? Normal. Show your sources.

David Kaufman (0:52)

Yeah.

Co-host/Interviewer (0:53)

And then the people on my side of the argument started calling you. The N word started. You know, what do you expect from my house then? And then uncle, like, just. And I. And I just sat back and allowed this army of vile racists to do my bidding.

David Kaufman (1:13)

Yeah.

Co-host/Interviewer (1:14)

Because we disagreed about something.

David Kaufman (1:16)

People. We live in a culture where people don't want to be challenged for their beliefs. They're this sort of. This idea that, you know, if they feel something or emote something or if it's a vibe, then it's legit. It's legit to them. That's their lived experience.

Co-host/Interviewer (1:28)

I mean, what would it say about me as a human being? I mean, there are.

David Kaufman (1:32)

It would say you're lame.

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table
Episode: David Christopher Kaufman – "Jews Defending Jews is a Revolutionary Act"
Date: March 28, 2025

Overview

This episode features journalist and commentator David Christopher Kaufman, who discusses Jewish identity, antisemitism in America post-October 7th, the dynamics of “sideline Jews,” and the unique challenges and transformative moments facing Jews today. Kaufman, whose background is both African American and Jewish, offers personal and cultural insights on the state of Jewish advocacy, intergroup tensions, and the double standards in how minority vulnerabilities are acknowledged and addressed in the US. The discussion is candid, unflinching, and often threaded with humor—true to the Comedy Cellar’s ethos.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Sideline Jew” Phenomenon and Institutional Responses

Column Discussion: Kaufman unpacks his recent NY Post column, "When Will Sideline Jews Finally Begin to Stand Up Against Their Haters?" ([03:24])
- He notes that many Jews are frightened or reluctant to speak out against antisemitism, partly due to a lack of institutional support.
- Kaufman praises recent strong policy actions responding to antisemitism, notably mentioning the Trump administration’s “top-down” stance.
- Kaufman: “If those people had been black or gay or transgender, none of this would have been allowed to happen.” ([04:21])
- The group debates the legality and wisdom of deportation as a response to campus threats, landing on the importance of properly vetting visa holders rather than blanket policies ([05:45]).

2. Fear, Blame, and the Burden of Advocacy

Kaufman recounts wealthy Jews in Miami who, even with significant resources, are afraid to publicly protest or confront events involving perceived antisemitism (e.g., Ta-Nehisi Coates speaking at a major Jewish-sponsored venue) for fear of being labeled racist ([08:14]).
- Kaufman: “There’s nothing racist about calling Ta-Nehisi Coates an antisemite. There’s nothing racist about calling his book, you know, a stain on the publishing industry.” ([10:47])

3. Parallels Between Jewish and Black American Experiences

The hosts and Kaufman explore similarities and differences in day-to-day minority insecurity.
- Host reflects that contemporary Jewish anxiety is akin to Black apprehension about policing—pervasive, subtle, hard to quantify but undeniably real ([16:09]).
- Kaufman: “As a black person in this country you constantly live with a fear... as a black man, the cops could come and start effing with me... with a sense of impunity.” ([16:09])
- For Jews, Kaufman argues the difference is that, "Jews are being told, this is your fault. You are the architect of your own oppression." ([17:58])

4. On Internalized Narratives and Double Standards

There’s a deep dive into the narrative that Jews benefit exclusively from white privilege and are thus less entitled to claim victimhood, particularly in left-leaning institutions and DEI circles ([36:11]).
- Kaufman: “Why must Jews atone for their success? ... Indians are extremely successful in America... nobody’s asking them to atone.” ([36:11])
- He expresses dismay at Jewish organizations publicly accepting the idea that Jews “must do the work” to address their “privilege,” a framing he calls dangerous and self-sabotaging ([37:46]).

5. Antisemitism in the Black Community — Nuance and Media Narratives

Both Kaufman and guests clarify that, in their lived experience, widespread Black antisemitism is largely a media mythology. Antisemitism is more complex and context-dependent.
- Kaufman: “Most American blacks are just not really thinking a lot about Jews, which is like fine for me.” ([33:30])
- Hasidic communities, in particular, are pointed out as insular and often challenging for outsiders of all backgrounds ([31:48]).

6. Racial Identity, Belonging, and Zionism

Kaufman reflects on his personal story as a Black and Jewish American, how his background influenced his worldview, and particularly, his strong feelings of belonging in Israel ([43:43]):
- “Israel is the only place in the whole world where I literally feel like everybody else.” ([44:00])
- He discusses the emotional impact of October 7th and Israel’s importance as a refuge for Jewish identity.
- Issues of racialization and the “white colonizer” trope are critiqued as distractions that ultimately serve anti-Jewish violence.
  - Kaufman: “Any talk of Jews and race is always basically a pathway to legitimizing our extermination.” ([47:30])

7. Jewish Education and the Crisis of Advocacy

Kaufman and the hosts lament that even Jews themselves are too often poorly equipped to make the case for Israel; the community is not educated on “the simple bullet points” necessary to argue effectively in public discourse ([50:04]).
- Co-host: “Anti-Semites know all about the Talmud and the arcane... We Jews... just want to go—‘Oh, you’re anti-Semites, you want all this dead?’ But what we haven’t done is educated ourselves and the general public on our very simple case.” ([51:25])

8. The Episode’s Thesis: Jews Defending Jews as a Revolutionary Act

Kaufman’s closing insight: the unprecedented moment in Jewish history is that Jews can now defend themselves. This, in itself, is a revolutionary act.
- Kaufman: “History is…there’s very few examples of Jews being able to defend other Jews. This is an ahistorical condition in the world today... Jews defending Jews is a revolutionary act and we as Jews need to be revolutionaries today.” ([51:55])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Fear of Speaking Out
- “We have multiple examples of people like Spielberg who are, you know, astoundingly wealthy and insulated from any sort of repercussions from taking bold statements. And they say nothing.” — David Kaufman ([07:37])
On Blame and Responsibility
- “Jews are being told, this is your fault. This…is being supported by the institutions that are supposed to be protecting us.” — David Kaufman ([17:58])
On the “Sideline Jews”
- “Jews defending Jews is a historical, unprecedented condition, experience, moment...Jews defending Jews is a revolutionary act and we as Jews need to be revolutionaries today.” — David Kaufman ([51:55])
On the Reality of Black-Jewish Relations
- “Most American blacks are just not really thinking a lot about Jews, which is like fine for me.” — David Kaufman ([33:30])
On the Israel “White Colonizer” Trope
- “Any talk of Jews and race is always basically a pathway to legitimizing our extermination.” — David Kaufman ([47:30])
On Personal Belonging and Zionism
- “Israel is the only place in the whole world where I literally feel like everybody else...it’s the only place where I truly feel like I can actually be myself.” — David Kaufman ([44:00])

Key Timestamps

[03:24] – Introduction of the NY Post column “Sideline Jews”
[05:45] – Debate on government responses and policy
[08:14] – Coates incident and fear of public advocacy
[16:09] – Parallels between Black and Jewish anxieties in America
[21:46] – Noting Jewish voices hostile to Israel
[29:54] – Kaufman’s family and religious background
[33:30] – The portrayal of Black antisemitism in the media
[36:11] – Double standards and expectations on Jews
[43:43] – Kaufman on being Zionistic and belonging in Israel
[50:04] – Jewish self-education and advocacy crisis
[51:55] – The episode’s concluding thesis: “Jews defending Jews is a revolutionary act”

Tone and Style

The episode is frank, spirited, and intellectually rigorous, balancing serious commentary with signature Comedy Cellar banter. Kaufman speaks with directness and edge, challenging both his interlocutors and the broader Jewish community to recognize a historic turning point for Jewish self-advocacy.

For New Listeners

This episode is an incisive window into post-October 7th Jewish discourse in America, shining a light on communal anxiety, the politics of identity, and the need for a bolder, better-prepared response to modern antisemitism. Whether you’re Jewish, Black, or simply curious about the intersections of identity and justice, Kaufman’s insights and the hosts’ challenging questions will give you much to think about.

wavePod

David Christopher Kaufman - "Jews Defending Jews is a Revolutionary Act"

Transcript

Summary

Podcast Summary

Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Sideline Jew” Phenomenon and Institutional Responses

2. Fear, Blame, and the Burden of Advocacy

3. Parallels Between Jewish and Black American Experiences

4. On Internalized Narratives and Double Standards

5. Antisemitism in the Black Community — Nuance and Media Narratives

6. Racial Identity, Belonging, and Zionism

7. Jewish Education and the Crisis of Advocacy

8. The Episode’s Thesis: Jews Defending Jews as a Revolutionary Act

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Key Timestamps

Tone and Style

For New Listeners