Podcast Summary

"Gaza and the World's Greatest Bank Robber with Liel Leibovitz"

Podcast: The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table
Date: February 27, 2025
Guest: Liel Leibovitz (Tablet Magazine editor, Hudson Institute fellow, and podcast host)
Main Theme: An engaging, wide-ranging discussion on Gaza, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the impact of October 7th, morality of war, cultural divides, and an astonishing story about Leibovitz’s father—one of Israel’s most famous bank robbers. The conversation traverses geopolitics, gun laws, American and Israeli identity, Trump, immigration, and the shifting tides of public sentiment.

Guest Introduction & Tone Setting

• Dan Natterman introduces the cast: himself, Comedy Cellar owner Noam Dworman, author Periel Aschenbrand, and special guest Liel Leibovitz.
• Banter sets an irreverent, witty—but sharply intellectual—tone throughout.
• Liel jokes about guns and antisemitism, immediately blending personal narrative and big themes.

Segment 1: The World's Greatest Bank Robber — Liel's Father (00:30–14:35)

• Liel Leibovitz recounts the wild saga of his father, once Israel’s most infamous, non-violent bank robber, who became a folk hero.
  • Story Highlights:
    • His father, from a wealthy family, decided to "follow his passion" for robbing banks—successfully, methodically, and without violence.
    • Used a motorcycle and van for getaways; would brazenly return to the bank to deposit stolen money amid responding police.
    • Community saw him as a Robin Hood figure; police were oblivious for years.
    • Eventually, his father "wanted to get caught," returned the money, and served over a decade in Israeli prison—visitation included family “weekend furloughs” (08:13).
    • Liel describes dressing up as his dad for Purim before knowing the truth. The story is “funny… until it’s not. But parts of it are hilarious.” (Liel Leibovitz, 10:06)
    • After prison, Liel’s father became a celebrity and did advertisements in Israel.
  • Cultural Note: The tale is set against a uniquely Israeli background—lack of gun access, prison reform focus, and a lightly chaotic legal system.
• Notable Quotes:
  • “He was kind of a folk hero. The guy who did it, though no one knew it, was my father.” (Liel, 06:07)
  • “Visiting him in prison was my childhood. Prison in Israel is the funniest thing you have ever seen... bring your kid to jail day, which is my absolute favorite day of the year.” (Liel, 08:12)

Segment 2: Gun Ownership in Israel vs. America (14:26–16:10)

• Discussion about strict Israeli gun laws versus American gun culture.
• Liel’s View: Supports strict licensing and training. “If you want to get a gun in Israel, it requires a whole lot of licensing, training, and ongoing renewal... That's what we need.” (Liel, 15:09)
• Contrast: Hosts joke about what "true gun nuts" want in the U.S. (total freedom) compared to Liel’s “responsible” position.

Segment 3: Gaza, October 7th, and the Palestinian Question (16:13–41:24)

Liel's Evolution & Hardline Thesis (16:44–19:56)

• Liel explains his shift from Israeli leftist to advocate of "pulling out all the stops" post-October 7th.

• Recounts Israeli euphoria at Oslo accords; describes the shock and optimism of early 1990s peace efforts.

• Notable Quote:
  “Maybe you were disillusioned at some point along the way, but if you weren’t, I think certainly October 7th did the trick.” (Liel, 17:32)

• Palestinian Polling:

  • Post-October 7th, support for Hamas actions in Gaza rose from ~30% to 60%+.
  • Cites polling: significant percentage want “all Israelis dead” or expelled (18:23).

Israeli Restraint & PR, Moral Limits of War (21:39–24:46)

• Israel’s care for human life is asserted: “No one in their right mind in the state of Israel has ever even remotely advocated [total war]. This war is being fought with the utmost care for human life...” (Liel, 21:42)
• Host pushes back: Israel has “lost the PR war” and public perception does not reflect these claims. (23:13)

"Why Do Gaza Civilians Support Hamas?" — Deep Cultural Divide (25:37–29:12)

• The Fey Fallacy:
  • Liel argues it’s Western "arrogance" to assume all people desire peace over glory/religious fulfillment. Draws provocative religious/civilizational analogies.
  • Claims Palestinian society’s defining goal is “the eradication of the Jewish invader. Nothing else brings them joy. … Maybe let's listen to them and believe them.” (Liel, 27:40)

Morality of Population Movements, "Denazification" & Historical Parallels (32:04–34:00)

• Liel floats "repopulation" (population transfer) as a historical, if grim, option—cites Sudeten Germans post-WWII as precedent.

• Notable Quote:
  “There are not a lot of options. I think this one of repopulation…is something we have seen happen again and again… to make sure you do not have a bloodbath on your hands.” (Liel, 32:04)

Segment 4: Solutions for the West Bank, Nationhood & Federation Concepts (33:57–44:15)

• Liel distinguishes between Gaza and the West Bank, noting the latter’s clan-based, not national, structure (per scholar Mordechai Kedar).
• Suggests a federation of local “emirates” might be more realistic than an independent state.
• Skepticism from hosts: “Why would they accept that?” (Dan, 39:07)
• Liel: “If they want to continue fighting, no problem, we'll continue to fight them. … October 7th must change everything.” (39:55)
• Discussion of federation with Jordan, and why this isn’t feasible due to Jordan’s political anxieties.

Segment 5: Trump, American Foreign Policy, and “Covenant Nations” (44:15–59:44)

• Liel sees Trump as a “plague… a divine force sent to us to teach us the error of our ways.” (45:43)
• Praises Trump’s unpredictability and instincts, especially regarding Israel and the move of the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem.
• Hosts and Liel debate Trump’s erratic, cavalier deportment—useful for shaking up stale policies, but dangerous in matters of war. (48:36)
• Liel defends Trump’s “American spirit,” drawing comparisons to Reagan and the value of disrupting broken norms.
• Sincere concerns about score-settling, “loyalist” administration appointments, and pardoning January 6th defendants.
• Liel remains optimistic, arguing some of Trump’s appointees are “serious people” and that a “fresh” approach is required.

Segment 6: The Bibas Family/Hostages – Morality, Negotiation, and Grief (59:53–67:46)

• Context: Bibas family, kidnapped on October 7, murdered by Hamas according to Israel. Periel provides moving, detailed context about their lives and the brutality.
• Dan asks: Why would Hamas kill hostages valuable for future exchanges?
  • Liel: For Hamas, a dead hostage is nearly as valuable as a living one due to Israel’s determination to retrieve even bodies.
  • Broad consensus among the group: Israeli society pays a steep psychological price in negotiating for hostages.
• Notable Quotes:
  • "The thought of not having a grave is the most inhumane, just mind boggling thing that could be imagined." (Liel, 63:05)
  • Debate: Should Israel exchange prisoners for dead bodies? Liel reluctantly agrees the answer is complex and heart-rending.

Segment 7: Morality, Celebratory Violence, & the Irreconcilable Divide (67:18–73:59)

• Hosts and Liel draw a stark moral line:
  • “I can process any human anywhere being sadistic. I cannot process the culture that cheers this, that celebrates it, that is exalted and rapturous in their response…” (Host 2, 67:27)
• Group ponders how diaspora Palestinians, living in the West, often shed this aspect of group dehumanization and violence.

Segment 8: Unpacking Hamas Support, Polls, Social Structure (70:22–74:55)

• Periel pushes a counter-narrative: most Palestinians just want to “eat a sandwich” and live peacefully—oppressed into supporting Hamas by violence.
• Liel disagrees: other Arab societies have overthrown tyrants; Gazans, by polling, have shown increasing support for violence and Hamas.

Segment 9: American & Israeli Identity, Immigration, and The Fate of the West (75:01–81:43)

• Liel and Noam discuss what binds nations together.
• Liel offers the theory that America and Israel are “covenantal nations,” founded on ideas and divine mission, not just ethnicity.
• Concern is voiced that new waves of American immigrants may not share the deep, almost mythic American identity and reverence for the “founding fathers” common to earlier waves.
• Liel: “If this administration does nothing else, the border is the single most important thing that they could do.” (79:34)

Segment 10: Right-Wing Populism, Tucker Carlson, & MAGA (82:05–End)

• Rising concerns about the "woke right"—MAGA, Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens—and its effect on support for Jews/Israel.
• Liel: “The woke right is not better than the woke left. … Trump is not MAGA. In MAGA, when you see Tucker interviewing this human … my heart sinks.” (82:08)
• Dan jokes about being blocked on Twitter by right-wing pundits.
• Liel and hosts agree: politics is now extremely unpredictable; both left and right can turn against Israel.
• Ending on a sober, humorous note: “On that we could agree—everyone hates the Jews.” (Liel, 84:01)

Notable Quotes

• “He was well-known in the community because he fucked the banks over, which everyone was very delighted with. And he never hurt anybody. So he was kind of a folk hero.”
  – Liel Leibovitz (06:07)

• “I grew up in the warm bosom of the Israeli left... but if you weren’t [disillusioned], I think certainly October 7th did the trick.”
  – Liel Leibovitz (17:14)

• “Maybe let's listen to them and believe them... Their goal is the eradication of the Jewish invader. Nothing else brings them joy.”
  – Liel Leibovitz (27:40)

• “I cannot process the culture that cheers this, that celebrates it, that is exalted and rapturous in their response to [violence]…”
  – Host 2 (67:27)

• “Trump is not maga… the woke right is not better than the woke left.”
  – Liel Leibovitz (82:08)

Timestamps Key Segments

• 00:30–14:35: Liel’s father: Israel’s bank robber folk hero; childhood, prison visits
• 14:26–16:10: Guns in Israel vs. America; licensing and responsibility
• 16:13–41:24: Gaza, October 7th, and hardline Israeli perspectives on Hamas, civilian support, and morality of war
• 44:15–59:44: Trump, American policy, immigration, identity, MAGA, and media
• 59:53–67:46: Hostages, the Bibas family, negotiation, grief, and morality
• 67:18–73:59: Cultural divides around violence, celebration, and empathy
• 75:01–81:43: American/Israeli identity, immigrant integration, “covenantal nations”
• 82:05–End: Populism, right-wing media, and the unpredictability of future alliances

Overall Tone & Takeaways

• The conversation balances dark geopolitics and tough criticism with comic timing and family anecdotes.
• Liel’s blend of personal story and grand political theory is unique—combining Israeli folk history, rigorous analysis, and provocative, sometimes controversial, proposals.
• The Comedy Cellar hosts keep discussion lively—probing, skeptical, at times challenging, but always sharp and incisive.
• Above all, the episode is a snapshot of contemporary anxieties about Israel-Palestine, American politics, immigration, and the shifting sands of Western identity.