“I’m not saying Israel Did It…”: The Charlie Kirk Conspiracy Chorus and its Enablers - With Ross Barkan.

Summary

Podcast Summary:

The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table
Episode: “I’m not saying Israel Did It…”: The Charlie Kirk Conspiracy Chorus and its Enablers – With Ross Barkan
Date: September 19, 2025
Featured Guests: Ross Barkan (writer, novelist, columnist, editor); Host panel includes Dave Smith, Dan Natterman, Noam Dworman, and Perry Al Ashenbrand

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Episode Overview

This episode provides an in-depth, often humorous, and sometimes acerbic roundtable discussion about the recent wave of conspiracy theories surrounding the assassination of conservative commentator Charlie Kirk. The main focus is the proliferation—primarily on the right, but with echoes on both ends of the spectrum—of rumors and allegations that Israel, Netanyahu, or “the Jews” were behind Kirk's death, possibly in response to his waning pro-Israel stance.

Notably, the panel, featuring guest Ross Barkan, systematically dissects how figures like Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, and Max Blumenthal, through tactics like paralypsis (making pointed insinuations while disclaiming them), have fueled these conspiracies; they also critique the normalization of such discourse by intermediaries like Megyn Kelly. There’s a recurring theme of concern over how old antisemitic tropes are being given new life in today’s media landscape, and whether mainstream media figures are complicit in this by failing to challenge them.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Optical Illusion" of Good Faith vs. Insinuation

• [00:00] Dave Smith opens with a metaphor: sometimes political disagreements stem from people sincerely seeing the same 'image' differently; other times, something more insidious is afoot—in this case, the anti-Israel conspiracy rhetoric "dirtying" mental associations with all things Jewish.
  • Quote: “Why is the conversation about Charlie Kirk's murder intertwined like a rope with conversations about his change of heart about Israel...? In my opinion, the intention... is Pavlovian. It's to dirty the mental association that we have with anything Jewish.” – Dave Smith ([01:41])
• Introduction of Christopher Hitchens’ view that the inability to stay off the topic is a telltale sign of obsessive antisemitism.

2. Paralypsis and the Genetic Metaphor for Right-Wing Conspiracism

• [12:20] Smith introduces 'paralypsis' (asserting, then disclaiming), and the “founder gene”/“founder mutation” concept—a recurrent susceptibility within conservative media to conspiracy narratives.
  • Quote: “Paralypsis is saying you won't assert X while furnishing everything you need for X. ...I would like to put a stake through the heart of paralypsis, which I think paralyptic expression is a scourge right now.” – Dave Smith ([12:41])
• Both metaphors are invoked throughout to analyze how outlandish theories ("I'm not saying Israel did it, but…") take root.

3. The Kirk/Israel Conspiracy Chorus: Who Said What

• [15:56 – 23:44] Clips and examples from Megyn Kelly’s show featuring Candace Owens, Fifth Column’s Michael Moynihan, and coverage of Ian Carroll’s claims.
• Kelly is characterized as defending Owens as “brilliant,” but also acknowledging the conspiratorial turn; Dave Smith and Dan Natterman highlight how even Alex Jones and Dave Smith himself pushed back against the idea of Israeli involvement, to little avail with their audiences.
  • Quote: “Even Alex Jones was like, guys, all of this conversation about this, why are we having a conversation about Charlie Kirk's commitment to Israel and immediately after he was assassinated?” – Dan Natterman ([19:35])

4. The Recyled Tropes & Their Spread Online

• [21:18+] Max Blumenthal, Candace Owens, and others are critiqued for weaving unrelated anti-Jewish tropes (Epstein, globalists, cabals, "Frankist cults," Bolshevik-Jewish connections) into current events.
• Ross Barkan observes that multiple conspiracy threads are running parallel—either Israel or the "radical left” is responsible—and that these can’t even internally align.

5. The Ben Shapiro/Conservative Divide

• [44:42] Ben Shapiro's views are played, emphasizing his pushback against conspiracy-laden isolationism and antisemitic dog-whistles emerging from some ostensibly right-wing quarters.
  • Quote: “Unfortunately, there's a grievance culture that has become the dominant strain on the left... And you see that sort of mirrored on a weird horseshoe part of the right...” – Ben Shapiro ([45:00])

6. The Mechanism and Consequence of Platforming Conspiracy Theorists

• Repeatedly, the hosts interrogate why reputable media figures (especially Megyn Kelly) do not more aggressively draw a line between mainstream debate and the world of Alex Jones, Candace Owens, and their ilk.
  • Quote: “We in the intellectual community that fancies itself to have some integrity ... cannot pretend that the likes of Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson are not smuggling in the patently ridiculous views of people like Alex Jones and Harrison Smith.” – Dave Smith ([40:24])
• A large portion is devoted to hearing (and sometimes lampooning) primary source clips: from talk of demonic attacks and underwater aliens (Tucker Carlson, Alex Jones), to the laundry list of classic antisemitic myths, to Clinton/Trump/Epstein conspiracies.

7. Ross Barkan's Perspective

• Barkan describes these narratives as "intellectually embarrassing" and essentially a symptom of the Trump/MAGAization of the right, where reality tests are subordinated to maintaining in-group loyalty.
  • Quote: "It all just revolves around Trump and his whims. How can it be both the radical left and Netanyahu killing Charlie Kirk? ...Did the radical left do it? The answer is none. No to both.” – Ross Barkan ([25:01])
• He offers historical context for assassinations and mass shootings, noting the prevalence of young, often unstable men as perpetrators, and cautions against over-simplified or ideological explanations.

8. The Danger, Spread, and Impact of these Theories

• [95:56+] Dave Smith draws a through line from “Jews killed Charlie Kirk” to a history of violence perpetrated against Jews, worrying about the impact of saturating public discourse with antisemitic and conspiratorial fantasies.
  • Quote: "If you start feeding a lot of people the notion that the Jews are behind killing our presidents, banging our children ... at some point you are going to provoke somebody.” – Dave Smith ([96:05])
• There’s notable frustration that prominent right-wingers resist decisively debunking these narratives, preferring to keep their audiences comfortable.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Antisemitism is a prejudice that... can seem to explain a lot. ...A dead giveaway ... is an inability to stay off the subject.” – Dave Smith quoting Hitchens ([01:21])
• “I learned two new words this week: paralypsis … and founding mutation ...” – Dave Smith ([12:20])
• "There's something in the conservative DNA which just is susceptible to conspiracy theories." – Dave Smith ([14:10])
• "I'm not saying Israel assassinated Charlie Kirk ... but their following goes nuts ... because they understand that's just the peel of the banana, that to be thrown away, and the meat of the banana is what they feast on, which is Israel killed Charlie Kirk." – Dave Smith ([58:57])
• "She is undermining the firewall ... between certain types of unfounded, ugly, conspiratorial thinking and the rest of the respectable world." – Dave Smith ([100:33])
• "Killing is awful ... but I am not impressed by a person who spent at least their final years being a party functionary. That's what he was." – Ross Barkan ([105:39])

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Important Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–03:38 | Opening monologue: “Optical illusion,” antisemitism, and premise of episode | | 12:16–14:47 | Concepts: “Paralypsis” & “founding mutation” as frameworks for analysis | | 15:24–23:44 | Discussion of Megyn Kelly, Candace Owens, and the “Israel did it” claim | | 24:37–26:14 | Ross Barkan on right-wing conspiracy splits and intellectual embarrassment | | 32:41–39:39 | Dissection of Max Blumenthal and Harrison Smith’s claims — antisemitic content | | 44:42–46:59 | Ben Shapiro clip: Pushback against new right antisemitic "horseshoe" | | 57:41–61:38 | Candace Owens, Holocaust deniers, Alex Jones: Outlandish claims aired, deconstructed | | 73:57–76:54 | Megyn Kelly’s (partial) return to reality; show’s critique of equivocation | | 78:01–81:47 | Dave Smith on Tucker Carlson, WWII, and baiting guests toward antisemitic takes | | 95:56–96:39 | Impact of conspiracies: Threats to Jews and normalization of antisemitic narratives | |104:53–105:39| Barkan’s appraisal of Kirk as a “MAGA functionary” and the dangers of hero-worship|

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The Hosts' Tone and Method

• Wry, occasionally caustic, with plenty of inside-joke-style banter
• Relentless in playing source material—often to excess (self-acknowledged)—to avoid accusations of quoting out of context
• Methodical in attributing quotes and tracing the network of “who is citing whom” in both mainstream and fringe right-wing media
• Deeply critical of both conspiracy theorists and media enablers, but consistently return to first principles (empiricism, logic, history)

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Conclusion

The episode is both a sharp, often darkly funny critique and a serious warning about the normalization of conspiratorial, antisemitic, and dangerous rhetoric in the mainstream American right (and beyond). The hosts, with Ross Barkan’s journalistic perspective, make the case that the Israel/Kirk rumors are a symptom, not a cause: they’re enabled by media personalities who, rather than challenging destructive narratives, amplify or ignore them for personal or commercial reasons. The show calls for more rigorous boundaries between evidence-based debate and the growing “paralypsis” universe of innuendo, dog-whistle, and overt bigotry—especially when these ideas are increasingly finding a home in the ‘main tent’ of public conversation.

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For listeners new to these discussions, this episode offers a comprehensive, both serious and satirical, guide to understanding how internet-fueled conspiracies—especially those touching on Jews, Israel, and the ‘global cabal’—gain a foothold, who enables them, and what is at stake when the line between fringe and mainstream is intentionally blurred.

Transcript

[Dave Smith]

Usually when I do a podcast that I think is going to get me in trouble, I like to start with a few observations at the top. So let me just go through a few notes that I have here. First of all, I'd like to get emails about this one. Podcastomedyseller.com I've made the analogy many times that when people have good faith disagreements, one way to look at it is as an optical illusion. You've seen this image. Is it a right hander or a left hander? Some people see a right hander, some people see a left hander, they see exactly the same image. The disagreement is absolutely good faith based on exactly the same facts. The podcast Today we're going to discuss whether or not all the people who seem to be implying that Charlie Kirk was murdered by the Israelis, are they acting in good faith or is something else going on? Is it just an optical illusion? Do they see a right hander? We see a left hander. Or is it deeper than that? Are the people who are excusing Candace Owens, Ian Carroll and the like, are they acting in good faith as well? All right, I want to also, let's, let's read into the record here my favorite Christopher Hitchens quote about anti Semitism. Antisemitism is a prejudice that may sometimes be, but it usually is not lightly worn. It has great appeal to pseudo intellectuals because it has great gossipy power and can draw on history and mythology and concepts like blood and gold. It can seem to explain a lot. It can form a bond between upper crust types and the plebeians, a bond of sturdy race and nation against the clever and the tricky and the hard. To place. A dead giveaway in distinguishing the obsessive or morbid anti Semite from the garden variety is an inability to stay off the subject. An inability to stay off the subject, by the way, I don't know if it's plebian or plebeian. So why is the conversation about Charlie Kirk's murder intertwined like a rope with conversations about his change of heart, about Israel, about Netanyahu, about the Mossad, about all sorts of things that have Jewish overtones. Why are they treated as Siamese twins in the public discourse? In my opinion, the intention of Candace Owens and others is not actually to prove that Israel was behind the Charlie Kirk murder. The intention is Pavlovian. It's to dirty the mental association that we have with anything Jewish. Scott Adams, very smart on some things, by the way, has written, when you associate any two ideas, people's Emotional reaction to them will start to merge over time. In a game of word association, what percentage of Candace and Tucker's audience would now answer jewelry to phrases like pedophile groomers, cabal globalists, great replacement media control, financiers, dual loyalty, blackmail porn. Who ordered the hit? JFK, 9, 11 Bolsheviks, Zelensky rodents, rat like persecutor of Christians genocide even during COVID vaccine deniers love to refer to the Pfizer company as Fizzreal. Everything is about the Mossad. Candace Owens yesterday was talking about how the New York Post is a Mossad.

[Max Blumenthal]

Operation, but they ran with the New York Post. Right. Outfit of the Mossad. I feel that a normal person's instinct is to make sure their loved ones are okay in their immediate vicinity. Make sure they are okay, obviously, and then to call and alert everyone who would be concerned that you're okay. Right. You're not going to get on the phone with, with tmz. Why are you giving it to like tmz, which covers celebrity gossip out of Hollywood. Right. The New York Post. That's supposed to be a local paper, a local news source. Why would you hit up the New York post?

[Dave Smith]

As of September 14, four days after the murder, the Jerusalem Post was already reporting that there had been more than 10,000 posts on X using the phrase Israel killed Charlie Kirk. This to me is all very, very deep. You may think it's paranoid. Please watch email me at podcastcomedysellers.com no rants scholarly or intelligent, well thought out emails and I will read them next week on the show. So. Oh, one more thing. There was a little technical glitch here and but the conversation during the glitch, it's early on, was kind of interesting. So I left it in, it's like five or seven minutes. But if you don't want to hear it, I just encourage you to skip it and get to the heart of the matter. Enjoy our conversation with Ross Barkin, the great Ross Barkin about Charlie Kirk, Candace Owens, Megan Kelly, Tucker Carlson and all of them hit it.

[Max Blumenthal]

There is a reason they're doing this. Trump is controlled by Zionists.

[Dan Natterman]

This is live from the Table, the official podcast of the world famous comedy seller available wherever you get your podcast available on YouTube, which is the best way to do it. And this is Dan Natterman here along with Noam Dorman, owner of the comedy seller.

[Dave Smith]

Hello, Dan. I'm just fumbling on my way.

[Dan Natterman]

We have, we have Perry Al Ashenbrand with us. Yeah, yeah, I'm drinking wine, which I.

[Dave Smith]

It's good for your Pop.

[Dan Natterman]

Never done. But I, I, you know, it's already. I've had two sips.

[Dave Smith]

You know that line, Dan, Feel it's.

[Dan Natterman]

Having an effect, Dan, you know, I don't know.

[Dave Smith]

I like wine more than I used to. It's good for you, Pop.

[Ross Barkin]

No, I don't know.

[Dave Smith]

So I'm the Godfather.

[Dan Natterman]

Yeah. I don't know as you do. You're obsessed with the Godfather. I prefer Goodfellas. Can have both, but. You can have both. But your obsession with the Godfather is quite something we have.

[Dave Smith]

Very unique. Yeah. I'm the only one.

[Dan Natterman]

Well, I think the Godfather obsessed with it as you are. You're not the only one, but you're one of. I think you're in the top percentile in terms of your level of obsession. We have with us Ross Barkin. He's been with us before. He's with us today. He's just come out with a novel. It's called Glass Century. And he's the editor in chief of the Metropolitan Review, a contributing writer to the New York Times Magazine, and a columnist of New York Magazine. Please welcome once again to our show, Mr. Ross Bark and Ross. How do you do?

[Ross Barkin]

I'm good. Thank you for having me back. I always love being here.

[Dave Smith]

I'd like to personally extend a very warm thank you to Ross, who I was never been so happy to get an email in my life. All right, so before we, before we start and get into the Charlie Kirk thing and the debacle that is tearing apart every last bit of credibility on the right that Ross never thought they had, we did have a little conversation pre show, for some reason we got into it about the percentages of shooters in the past who have been trans and things like that. And it reminded me of something I just looked up that, that Mike Pesca. You know Mike Pesca?

[Ross Barkin]

Yes, I do know Mike very well.

[Dave Smith]

Sent to me years ago, there was an article in, in some journal based on some Princeton archives about slavery and the various roles of men and women in slavery, blah, blah. And it had the following line in the trigger warning section of the article. The reimagining of archives is urgent because the legacies of the history of racially premised slavery propel contemporary structural racism and the policing and exploitations of communities of the African diaspora around the world. The primary sources in the archives might be misgendering people. And Firestone Library of Princeton University stands in Lenape territory with an institution with historical ties to racialized slavery. So Princeton at one time was Very, very nervous about discussing male and female slaves without acknowledging the fact that some of those males may have been transgender and so might some of those females. So when you discuss the history of murderers, I want you to be open to the idea that you may be misgendering some of these murderers. Some of these murderers that you think may have been transgender male in the past, they might have been transgender women. So now very carefully make your point. Go ahead.

[Ross Barkin]

My point was the vast, vast majority of mass shooters and assassins, as far as we can establish, have been CIS non trans men and young men in particular. I think that the one generalization you can make about both the mass shooter and the assassin historically and in contemporary times, that with few exceptions, they are men either in their late teens to early to mid 20s.

[Dan Natterman]

You surprised me before the show when you said that Oswald was 24. Yes, because I always thought he was older.

[Ross Barkin]

Yes, he was 24. Wilkes Booth was 26. Almost every. And you look at the mass shooters of recent years, they were all teens and twenties. Thomas Crooks, who tried to kill Trump, I think was 21, 21 years ago.

[Dan Natterman]

Yeah. Brio Princep. I'll be very impressed if you. You get this one.

[Ross Barkin]

Yeah, he was 19.

[Dan Natterman]

Wow. He was the guy who shot Archduke Ferdinand.

[Ross Barkin]

Yes, he was 19. They're young. I mean, young, young men are in most cases, with the real exception was the Las Vegas shooting, which was a late 50s paddock, which made that one so strange. To this day, we have no idea why he killed all those people. No one knows. There's no matter.

[Dan Natterman]

No one knows why Oswald killed.

[Dave Smith]

David Callum, a recent guest on a Tucker Carlson show whose name I think we'll be bringing up in this show, has speculated that actually that whole Vegas shooting was a bunch of character actors.

[Ross Barkin]

Okay.

[Dave Smith]

Of course, that was one of Tucker.

[Ross Barkin]

Carlson's recent character actor thesis.

[Dave Smith]

Well, even Oswald, that might explain it.

[Ross Barkin]

But Oswald, though, had. Oswald had a lot of conspiracy theories attached to him. So one can speculate on Cuba, on the mob, on the CIA. Like, there are many tangents. You can go. What made the Las Vegas so strange is there weren't even tangents. There's nothing. It's a void of no real understanding.

[Dave Smith]

This is very interesting. It's not the subject today, but I want to say that question is whether it's a. We should really be talking about the fact that young shooters, mass shooters, are CIS men, as opposed to the fact that just young, violent criminals in general of every stripe of violent crime are young, straight men. Right.

[Ross Barkin]

Tend to be men I mean, I mean, I can't speak to straight and gay. I can't. I don't know the sexuality of all the mass shooters. Cis identifying as male. Identifying young men are the vast majority of mass shooters, assassins. And even just look at like petty, petty crime. Gang violence. Right. Gang violence in cities like New York and Chicago and la. Who is in the. Who is in this, you know, this realm? It's young men. It's. It's the argument, if you want to make the criminal justice reform argument, it's the argument against indefinite life sentences that unless you want to serve justice, obviously. But men, when they enter their, you know, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, are not a threat to society the way they are in their youth.

[Dave Smith]

All right, before we start today's. Yeah, we can have another show about this. It's a, it's an important discussion, especially because there was a. There is an anti trans wave, deep, deeply coming about this and people have been correcting me on Twitter that there actually is a violent, you know, breathing fire, violent trans movement like a JDL of the trans. I'm sure there is, but this is obviously also fueling just general.

[Ross Barkin]

Well, I think.

[Dave Smith]

Wait, wait, don't, don't, don't even respond because I'm gonna. So, so before we go on, I. I learned two new words. Two new concepts. No, to the right. A little bit to my right. Scooch to your right. Yeah, I learned two new concepts this week.

[Dan Natterman]

You learn the words or the actual concept?

[Dave Smith]

Well, you'll be. I don't know how to. I'm not sure. I learned two new words and concepts. Phrases this week, both because I was searching to be able to express analogies which I felt would be apt. And let's see if Ross knows what this is. Paralypsis.

[Ross Barkin]

Paralypsis.

[Dave Smith]

Okay. Paralypsis is going to come up. I would like to put a stake through the heart of paralypsis, which I think paralyptic expression is a scourge right now, paralypsis is the most famous example is when Mark Anthony in Julius Caesar said, I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him, but actually he was intending to do exactly the opposite. And chatgpt saying you won't assert X while furnishing everything you need for X. So quite often in this Charlie Kirk thing, we're hearing people say there's absolutely no reason to think that Israel was behind this at all. There's absolutely. I would never say that Israel was involved in killing Charlie Kirk. And then they go on to make all give you all the reasons why you should probably think Israel definitely had a hand in Charlie Kirk. And then they'll say, what are you talking about? I specifically said I came to bury him, not to praise him. How can you possibly accuse me? So that's one thing, Paralypsis, and the other one is a founding mutation or a founding gene. Do you know what that is?

[Ross Barkin]

More so.

[Dan Natterman]

But that sounds like an actual scientific concept being analogized in the social.

[Dave Smith]

It is the concept. It is like Tay Sachs or Sickle Cell. It's a mutant gene, usually that runs at a very high frequency within a certain small population that they are constantly susceptible to. And what's that called again?

[Dan Natterman]

A founding mutation.

[Dave Smith]

I've seen it both ways. A founding mutation or founding gene. And I think there is something in the conservative DNA which just is susceptible to conspiracy theories. We see it again and again and again. The most outrageous conspiracy theories. And both these concepts, I think are helpful to understanding what we're seeing today in terms of the right wing reaction to the Charlie Kirk thing. So now I know Megyn Kelly a little bit. Very little bit. But I've had a good relationship with her. She's very kind to me. She's praised me.

[Dan Natterman]

Not buried you.

[Dave Smith]

But I'm not going to be a wimp. I strongly upset about where she's been going lately. Not about Israel. I don't care what she thinks about Israel. About embracing these conspiracy theorists. On the right, Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens. I want to start by playing a clip yesterday from her show. This will launch us in. This is Megyn Kelly and the Fifth Column guys. My friend Michael Moynihan in particular. This is number one, Stephen Sot. One, as they say on the big shots.

[Dan Natterman]

That's Mike. He has glasses.

[Dave Smith]

Okay, you got the sound working and everything. So we'll just cut this part out. Don't worry.

[Dan Natterman]

Hit it.

[Dave Smith]

No, he's trying to figure out the sound.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wanna pause?

[Dan Natterman]

Very attractive woman, that Megyn Kelly. You look like Natasha Henstridge. Remember Natasha Henstridge? She was a big actress back in like the 90s.

[Dave Smith]

Megan looks like that in person, like close up.

[Dan Natterman]

Well, you know, Northern, European, I mean.

[Dave Smith]

But you know who's even better looking than Megyn Kelly? Her husband, Doug.

[Dan Natterman]

Who's Doug? Doug Kelly. Is he a Kelly or is he another name?

[Dave Smith]

No, I can't remember his last name. Five minutes later.

[Dan Natterman]

You went to where? Columbia?

[Ross Barkin]

No, I went to Stony Brook with suny.

[Dan Natterman]

Oh, Sony guy. SUNY Guy makes good SUNY Guy.

[Ross Barkin]

No, Columbia. They didn't let me in Columbia. I never got to have the Columbia guilt because they never. They didn't admit me.

[Dave Smith]

They didn't admit you. You must have done well in your SATs.

[Ross Barkin]

I did very badly in math. I did very well in the verbal. Got a close to perfect score. My math was horrendous. So my total SAT score was middling.

[Dave Smith]

Are you bad at math?

[Ross Barkin]

Yes.

[Dave Smith]

That's interesting.

[Ross Barkin]

I'm very, very bad at math. Yes. I don't dislike it. I'm like, actually math disabled, I think.

[Dave Smith]

Does it disturb you? Periel is bad too, but she's bad at English also.

[Ross Barkin]

I try. I like. If math is applied to sports, I'm okay with it. Like percentages. I like.

[Dave Smith]

No, you're thrilling me right now because Gnome has this concep that if you're like, you can't really be.

[Dan Natterman]

I mean, are.

[Dave Smith]

There are brilliant if you're bad at math. And you're obviously proving that wrong.

[Dan Natterman]

You know, really.

[Ross Barkin]

I could barely get through algebra. Like geometry. I remember taking 9th grade geometry test in 9th grade. I got the test, I'd studied. I stared at it. I literally no idea how to answer any of the questions. I just pretended I was sick and went to the nurse. I said, I can't do this. I left.

[Dave Smith]

I do have the feeling that it may not be true. No, it's not true. I've told you this a hundred times. Yeah, I need to hear from Ross. I do have the feeling that if you're not good at math, you're an idiot. Well, because logic is a big part of math. So what I've explained to you a hundred times that you could be a genius in something creative or artistic. The problem is I'm not able to explain to you five minutes later. All right, so this is my friend Michael Moynihan on the Megyn Kelly show. It's like a four or three and a half is. Go ahead.

[Dan Natterman]

I've been involved in these things when it comes to a million different issues. It becomes conspiratorial when. When. When Israel's involved and you know, people who are. Have Israel's back, it can, you know, and I think that Candace Owens is a. Is a very, very dodgy witness in this considering she doesn't have a ton of credit credibility amongst.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, but wait, let me just say. Let me say this in Candace's defense. First of all, she's brilliant. Candace is brilliant. I realize she's controversial, but she is very smart. She's too smart to f around and say that she's got like the letter. She seems to have either the letter or recordings that, that she doesn't have. She just tweeted out. More is going to come out. The truth is inevitable. They're lying. But rest assured, these people were deranged enough to put their anger and demands in writing.

[Dan Natterman]

Why is it about the pet issue that she's been talking about? I think obsessively for every time I tune in to like, in these totally crazy ways. I mean, the guy, Ian.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, I don't know if this is true of Candace, but I do some people.

[Dave Smith]

No, no, no.

[Megyn Kelly]

But I was just going to say, but some people obviously were wondering whether Israel had a hand in this. I mean, that's clearly why it's come up. And there's zero evidence Yahoo was responding.

[Dan Natterman]

I mean, I mean, I don't think that in any other circumstance, if this had not kind of taken over like a prairie fire on the Internet. You know, this guy, Ian Carroll's Joe Rogan's show, he was a guest host of, of Candace's show this summer. You know, was on, on Twitter saying the Israelis did this. And even, you know, you have someone like Dave Smith who has a lot of problems with me, and we disagree on almost everything, but even he responded, he's like, dude, what are you talking about? Where is.

[Megyn Kelly]

He said that was crazy talk.

[Harrison Smith]

It's crazy.

[Dan Natterman]

And like, even Alex Jones was like, guys, all of this conversation about this, why are we having a conversation about Charlie Kirk's commitment to Israel and immediately after he was assassinated? Because there's so many ghouls out there who are trying to suggest that maybe because he was wavering on this. And as Charlie said to you, I didn't know the guy.

[Harrison Smith]

I met him, I think one time.

[Megyn Kelly]

Here's what I don't understand.

[Dan Natterman]

He was wavering on it. He said he.

[Megyn Kelly]

I don't understand under that theory. Here's what I don't get under that theory. Like, Candace is very influential. She's got a very popular show. Tucker same. And obviously neither one is feeling very supportive of Israel in this war. That's for sure in Tucker's case and for sure.

[Dan Natterman]

And the conversations that Candace Owens has about this stuff, I don't believe to be normal. I believe them to be completely insane.

[Dave Smith]

And they're really, really deep in blood.

[Dan Natterman]

Libel in really gross old conspiracy theories. Can I ask you a question on that?

[Megyn Kelly]

Let me just, Let me. An honest question for you. An honest question for you on that. Because I see the clips that they share of Candace online and every once in a while I'll Go and just kind of check the clip to see if it's, like, real and more than once in her case. And the same thing with Tucker, by the way. And many times in his case. When I go back to the original source, I'm like, this was taken out of context. Now I'm a busy person and I don't have time to do, to listen to every podcast, like, whatever. If it's not a segment we're going to do on the show, I'm probably not going to go back and watch the whole thing. But I have seen Candace taken out of context many, many times. And you can, you know, times that by 100 on Tucker. So do you listen to her show? Like, do you actually know that the little clips you've seen online are not taken out of context?

[Dave Smith]

All right, so what's been going on here is Max Blumenthal, Judge Napolitano, Candace Owens, Ian Carroll, all the usual suspects have all been saying, implying, using paralyptic presentation, that clearly Israel is behind this killing of Charlie Kirk. Because there was a story, and the story may have a lot of truth to it, that Charlie Kirk had had it up to here with these kind of boorish Jews who were, I'm putting in his words, I mean, his, like, mentality that when he was getting a little squishy on how he felt about Israel and how Israel was conducting the war and he began to want to express it, they kind of descended on him and put pressure on him and tried to convince him otherwise. And Kirk sent out invitations for some event in the Hamptons which had influencers that Bill Ackman paid for. And this clearly did get under Kirk's skin because he went on Megyn Kelly's show the next day, maybe I'll cut it in. And he bitched and moaned about how, you know, I've been a supporter of Israel all this time and I say one or two things wrong, and they're all calling me anti Semites, whatever. So this is.

[Megyn Kelly]

You and I are both supporters of Israel and have defended Israel since the beginning of this conflict and spoken out about the anti Semitism that has erupted on these college campuses many, many, many, many times. And something's happening, though, with this whole debate that is really bothering me, and I wonder if you're feeling it, too.

[Harrison Smith]

I'm so glad you brought this up, and I would second that, Meghan. I think I have a bulletproof resume showing my defense of Israel both on campus, on social media, to great, you know, let's just say mockery and scorn at times where I. Cuz I believe it, right? I believe in the scriptural land rights given to Israel. I believe in fulfillment of prophecy. And I, and I will say this, the behavior by a lot, both privately and publicly, are pushing people like you and me away. Not like we're going to be pro Hamas, not like we're going to. But we're like, honestly, the way you are treating me is so repulsive. I have text messages, Meghan, calling me an anti Semite. I am learning biblical Hebrew and writing a book on the Shabbat. I honor the Shabbat, literally the Jewish Sabbath. I visit Israel and fight for it.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's been so unfair. They were coming after you after a turning point. For among other things then you had Dave Smith. There was. Dave Smith is allowed to criticize Israel. You had both sides. The Israeli side was not allowed to, though.

[Harrison Smith]

No, you're not allowed to. It's even worse than that. Again, I just want to repeat for the fifth time, I love Israel. I want Israel to win. But my moral character is now being put into question, Meghan, not my decisions. Not like, hey, are you doing this? Is it smart or is it dumb? But no, I am a bad person if I do this.

[Dave Smith]

They're making the leap from this to Israel had him killed. Now, what's so disturbing to me is that Candace Owens, clearly, she has never been taken out of context. And I'm going to go through a lot of it. But let's just stop there since Ross is our guest. Do you have any knowledge of all this? Have you been following it, feeling about it a little?

[Ross Barkin]

Yeah. I mean, I think it's strange that you have two strands of conspiracy theory that can't actually align on the right. One is Israel did it. The second is the far left in it, the radical left. And that's been the Trump MAGA line. So I'm wondering, for someone like Kelly who's now MAGA aligned, she made her conversion, they all bend the knee. I mean, I find.

[Dave Smith]

Not anti Israel, by the way. She's never been, but go ahead.

[Ross Barkin]

Right. I find that whole world quite embarrassing intellectually, to be honest, because it's all just revolves around Trump and his whims. How can it be both the radical left and. And Netanyahu killing Charlie Kirk? Right. Did the radical left do it? The answer is none. No to both.

[Dan Natterman]

Well, are the same people saying both or is it different people saying it's.

[Ross Barkin]

Well, it's the people in the same universe. Like maybe, maybe Kelly doesn't think the left has Anything to do with it.

[Dave Smith]

It's worth underlining here that Megyn Kelly clearly said that she thought the conspiracy theories about Kirk's death were crazy talk.

[Dan Natterman]

You know, this guy, Ian Carroll has been on Joe Rogan's show. He was a guest host of, of Candace's show this summer. You know, was on, on Twitter saying the Israelis did this. Where is.

[Megyn Kelly]

He said that was crazy talk.

[Ross Barkin]

I mean, that's why. I don't know for sure. I'm saying in the, in the right wing universe, you have the left gets most blame. That's the Trump line. But then you have this also this other strand of Israel is behind it too, which you hear, which you can hear on the left as well, to be fair.

[Dave Smith]

But Ross, there's something deeper going on that really deserves me. You're Jewish, right?

[Ross Barkin]

Yes, very much the question. Yeah, very much the.

[Dave Smith]

These crazy people and their views are getting normalized within the sphere of, of respectable conversation. Like, like, you know, it was Rogan, now it's Megan Kelly. It's like they're being body snatched. And it's like my life's mission now to make everybody stare in the face what it is and how wacky and how crazy these people really are. Because this is how I see it. When you see and I'll play it. The things that these people are saying, you have to say to yourself, well, either I think the things that they're saying, like Tucker Carlson says, we're studying alien weapons systems at the Pentagon. And also we also have satanic beings that live underwater, and we're aware of those too. And either you believe all this stuff is possibly true or you have irrefutable evidence of the standard of proof of these people before they report something, before they believe something. And once that standard of proof is demonstrated, which falls not even near the range of what's acceptable for a journalist like, then that should be the end of your embrace of this person. When Candace Owens implies that she has evidence that, you know, Charlie Kirk was feared for his life, whatever it is, you should say, well, this is the person who told me that Christian babies disappear every year on Passover. This is the person who told me that Dr. Mengele was a fraud. This is the person and you say, I'm not. If you need to cite Candace Owens to make your point, maybe you need to reconsider your point. That's what any, that's what any responsible person says. Listen, if all I've got is Candace Owens and Max Blumenthal, maybe I need to go, you know, Hit the pavement. But that's not what's going on now. And now there is a. What's the word for it? Like a gaslighting, I guess is. I hate to use cliches, but a gaslighting of us that we're supposed to all pretend. Oh, sure, Candace Owens is reliable. So let's just go through a little bit of. To make the case of what she's saying. Can you bring up this? It's the Candace Tweetstorm ping file. So this is just. And you guys tell me if you think I'm being unfair to her, just open that file. So I don't know if you can make it big. I can read it here. So she has, like, a tweet storm. The first tweet is Tucker Carlson just exposed everything Charlie was going through with his Jewish donors and what his true feelings were towards Bibi Netanyahu. Watch to comprehend how sinister the lies are. The Zionist crowd is trying to tell right now, message exists. Stop lying. Next tweet. Sorry, guys. You murdered my friend. You unlocked the Inigo Montoya in me. We're not stopping until we get to the bottom of this thing. You now who is you? Next tweet. All Bibi Netanyahu had to do was not lie on Charlie's name in the aftermath, and we wouldn't be here. But he was never able to meet the challenge. Next tweet. Awesome Jew was also at the Hampton Senate, of course. I'm just sitting here looking at this list and attempting to spin them as a totally casual fling that was not about Israel. Next one. Some of these. This is a repost. Candace Owens flat out says the text messages of Tyler Robinson released by United States government are doctored and false. In other words, she's saying the party line, which is very clear, that this guy was, you know, a guy who was turning to the left, has relationship with a trans woman. They have the text messages between them. Candace is saying that these texts are not legitimate. They've been doctored. So the plain meaning of this. Who is the you? Isn't it clear? The you is the people in the five tweets surrounding it. In this. Yeah. So she is saying somehow that Israel was involved in killing Charlie Kirk.

[Max Blumenthal]

I'll tell you this. Something is not right. Something is not right. And I am going to need you, whoever it is that's listening to this podcast right now, to wake up. What just happened to my friend Charlie Kirk is a battle of sheer evil versus the indictment against Tyler Robinson was just released. And I have A lot of questions that I think need to be answered regarding his trans boyfriend, Lance Twigs. Well, I just spoke to a family member who told me a lot about Lance Twigs because the media is kind of presenting him as this Do Gooder. You might be interested to know that his family has a different perspective. Also, Turning Point employees are contacting me, a lot of them. Okay. And I am not liking what I am hearing.

[Dave Smith]

She doesn't believe the story.

[Max Blumenthal]

Things that took place leading up to that Hamptons event. First and foremost, what always stood out to us about this shooting was decoy Boy. Never in my entire life have I seen a situation when a shooting happens and then somebody completely unrelated to the shooting that just happened jumps up and down and says that they did it. And now we learn that he's been harboring images. He has kiddie porn. What I'll tell you about George Zinn, what that signals to me about George Zinn is that I've. I mean, I've read a lot about Jeffrey Epstein. I've read a lot about blackmail operations. The people they tend to go after are people who are in Two Children. Everybody watched my episode yesterday. Okay. I never said the sentence, bill Ackman blackmailed Charlie Kirk. That never happened. But of course, he's doing the typical, like, you know, Israeli I'm a victim, and let me tell you why I'm a victim. So he just sets it up. And I don't know why he's putting these things in parentheses of Charlie's supposed evolving stance. Okay. We can watch clips of that in a little bit. It's not supposed. And I'll also point you in this direction. You guys, remember Bibi recently was on a PR blitz, despite the fact that he was fighting this 96,000 front war because Israel didn't do nothing. Okay. He was doing a ton of podcasts in America.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, that's obviously. That's all edited right now. Let's just add into that also the number 10, Max Blumenthal, who you probably might, because you're an anti Israel guy, you might have some following my September 20th. So this is. This is. And then we'll talk about. This is three and a half minutes of Max Blumenthal. He also wrote an article. I have some quotes from the article. And let's see what he says here. Go ahead.

[Dan Natterman]

Max Blumenthal is here with a report of his latest investigations on the events leading up to the murder of Charlie Kirk.

[Dave Smith]

And by the way, he cites Candace Owens.

[Dan Natterman]

You'll see following my September 12th report, which provided background about the pressure, the mounting pressure that Charlie Kirk was under from pro Israel forces, from Netanyahu's cutouts in the United States. People were talking to me, and these were people who had knowledge of a tumultuous, stormy meeting held in the Hamptons during the first week of August, convened, according to multiple sources, with knowledge of this meeting, intimate knowledge of this meeting by the billionaire ultra Zionist financier Bill Ackman, who was close to Netanyahu and his kind of network in the United States. Charlie Kirk was summoned. Ackman, according to multiple sources, had this meeting to basically bully Charlie Kirk into submission. Charlie Kirk walked away, according to one person, feeling like there was an attempt to blackmail him. He refused any offers of funding and also refused the offer to travel to Israel, so alienated by this crowd of pro Israel enforcers that he was moving away from the Protestant church. This is what I've been told. Candace Owens just disclosed this on her live stream.

[Dave Smith]

Candace becomes his source.

[Dan Natterman]

Why do you think Netanyahu felt the need to go on national television and.

[Harrison Smith]

Expressly deny Israel assassinated Kirk?

[Dan Natterman]

I mean, who does that? Yeah, why? Why do millions of people. I mean, you see it all over social media. They think Israel had some involvement because of the way they've been conducting themselves around the world. So, you know, people are taking the reality and to another level where it's an unsubstantiated theory. I have no evidence that Israel had any role in Charlie Kirk's assassination. I wrote this story was because I was able to get this background about Charlie Kirk and what was happening in his life and what was coloring his final days and the kind of pressure he was under, which tells a larger story about Israeli influence in the United States.

[Ross Barkin]

Did you get the feeling that he.

[Dan Natterman]

Was only a few afraid of reputational.

[Harrison Smith]

Damage or, you know, losing money, or.

[Dave Smith]

Did his fears extend to his life?

[Dan Natterman]

Well, that's what Harrison Smith, who is a personality at infowars pro Trump outlet, has said. Almost a month before Charlie Kirk was killed. He said Charlie Kirk fears that Israel will kill him. I can't see any hard material evidence that Israel had him killed.

[Dave Smith]

Power Lipsis.

[Dan Natterman]

But there's this fear when you go against the Israel lobby and you're that powerful. And it's a fear that I've been told Donald Trump shares. I mean, think about it.

[Dave Smith]

What would happen.

[Dan Natterman]

If he suspended arms, if he suspended arms to a country that carries out assassinations all across the globe, that specializes in assassinations, that has an entire wing of its intelligence services that conducts assassinations? Including with household goods like pagers. Would you not be scared? You go through your personal courage and your understanding of all of these profound issues and interrelated actors here. I can't thank you enough.

[Dave Smith]

So they're interrelated but not related. There's no evidence that Israel tried to kill, but they're all very interrelated. And of course, Trump was scared and Charlie was scared. And you know who wouldn't be considering to have a wing of people dedicated to assassinating. Yeah, like it's because Israel kills, assassinates terrorists, they're going to assassinate President United States. So. And let me just go on with this Blumenthal, because they're all attached at the hip. This is some of his writing is even worse. The headline, charlie Kirk refused Netanyahu funding offer was quote, frightened by pro Israel forces before death friend reveals. I don't have any evidence that it happened. Kirk had become the target of a sustained private campaign of intimidation and free floating fury by wealthy and powerful allies of Netanyahu figures he described in an interview as Jewish leaders and stakeholders. He was afraid of them. The source emphasized the conservative youth leader was not only alienated by the hostile nature of the interactions, but, quote, frightened by the backlash. He went on to complain to Kelly. I have less ability to criticize the Israeli government than actual Israelis do. And that's really weird how it builds on itself. The guy that Max Blumenthal cites is a guy named Harrison Smith. Now the guy, Harrison Smith is a guy who tweets things like Jews themselves celebrate the contributions of pornography, mass immigration, transgenderism and finance. He also does, he does a video, I don't have it, where he reports on pastel, like biologically engineered structures that grow in the veins of people who have taken Covid vaccines. And they actually have the video of maybe I'll cut it in.

[Harrison Smith]

This is coming out of people who were formerly alive. People are walking around with these things.

[Alex Jones]

Growing inside their arteries and blood vessels.

[Harrison Smith]

Okay. I mean, it looks like, like some sort of rubbery seafood. These are, I call them engineered biostructures.

[Dave Smith]

Right.

[Alex Jones]

So something in people's bodies is programming them.

[Dave Smith]

He says that Monica Lewinsky was a CIA plant. And he tweeted also, Jews are overwhelmingly responsible for communism, cultural Marxism, feminism, critical theory, pornography, hate speech, legislation, gender theory, mass non white immigration to Western countries, left wing judicial activism, the destruction of traditional Christianity, normalization of sexual deviancy, interminable warmongering in the Middle east goes on and on and on. And he's. And Harrison Smith says, literally this now Harrison Smith works for Alex Jones.

[Harrison Smith]

The more you attack Israel, the stronger it gets because the cult that runs it manipulates and controls the white supremacist and all the. The groups that then come in. Not, not, not all of them.

[Dan Natterman]

So.

[Harrison Smith]

So there's a bigger dialectic here. And there's good people in Israel, too.

[Dave Smith]

And it just stacked one on top of another, on top of on top of another. Now, am I wrong that Megan Kelly should separate herself like that? Like, is there some reason that she can make the case that this is not prima facie, like, summary judgment type? These people are not credible journalists.

[Ross Barkin]

Yeah, well, they're not credible. That's true. Can she do that? I don't know.

[Dave Smith]

She used to. As I'm editing this today, it occurs to me that Megyn Kelly would argue I never endorsed Alex Jones or Harrison Smith. I'm arguing that we in the intellectual community that fancies itself to have some integrity and to be more rigorous, cannot pretend that the likes of Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson are not smuggling in the patently ridiculous views of people like Alex Jones and Harrison Smith. That the whole of Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson cannot be separated from its parts. For instance, here Tucker Carlson argues that Alex Jones, who denied that the Sandy Hook shooting was real and claimed that the parents were actors, that Alex Jones is actually a supernaturally inspired prophet. Clearly, the Sandy Hook thing was incorrect. You know Alex.

[Alex Jones]

I know Alex personally, so I know what he was going through. And, you know, everybody wants to talk about mental health and they want to praise people for being honest about their mental health issues and support them on their mental health journey, wellness.

[Dan Natterman]

Alex has gone through some real issues.

[Alex Jones]

And one of the reasons why he's gone through some issues is because that guy is uncovering real. That's terrifying every day.

[Harrison Smith]

Well, and he's also channeling some stuff. There's. You can't call 9 11.

[Dave Smith]

He did not call 911 in detail.

[Harrison Smith]

Because you're super informed.

[Dan Natterman]

Let's just.

[Harrison Smith]

That's all we know about Alex Jones. Let's just say that's the fact set. How'd that happen?

[Dave Smith]

Right.

[Dan Natterman]

How did he do that?

[Harrison Smith]

No, that's super. That is real. The supernatural is real. And I don't know why it's so hard for the modern mind, just because it's a materialist mind to accept that. But what you. And that's not a new phenomenon. It's happened throughout history. There are people called prophets, and there are people who were prophets who weren't called prophets. But there are people who have Information or parts of information, bits of information, visions of information come to them and.

[Alex Jones]

Then they relay it.

[Harrison Smith]

It's not from them, they received it. This is like the, you know, one of the oldest phenomenon in human, in human history. So.

[Ross Barkin]

She'S in the, you know, she's in her world now. I don't know what her incentives are. I don't know her at all. I don't know her. Don't know her personally. I mean, there's, there's no, I mean, even the, you know, even the sort of people propagating this admit there's no hard evidence. So for me, if you don't have evidence, don't spread a theory. So I don't think Israel was behind it. I think it was an alienated young man who took a shot. By the way, if you talk to anyone who knows a bit about guns and shooting, which I don't, but I spoke to those who do, it wasn't that difficult a shot. You didn't need a CIA/ Israeli army.

[Dave Smith]

Training a Mossad assassin.

[Ross Barkin]

No, you not need a Mossad assassin. It was a conventional shot that a kid growing up in Utah who knew a lot about weapons could take.

[Dave Smith]

Do you find these videos interesting? Because I'm burdening the show with the videos.

[Ross Barkin]

I mean, they're interesting to me because I'll admit it's a strain of the right, or not just the right, because Lumenthal's not quite on the right, but it's a strain that I am less familiar with versus what I see in conventional maga world, which is radical left. Radical left. That's the party line from Trump and Bondi. So in Vance as well. So this is kind of, this is notable in that they're not taking that party line. They're going this way.

[Dave Smith]

And so let's go all in and play a few more, and then we'll be done with them. So just. Also in the Max Blumenthal article in the Gray Zone, he says, four days before the assassination, frustration among pro Israel commentators bubbled over in public during a Fox News interview in which Ben Shapiro launched a chilling attack on Kirk without naming him. So can you play the number seven? This is the part. One second. This is, this is the part of the interview that I think he's referring to. So you tell me if it's chill, if this sounds like a chilling attack. By the way, I think Ben Shapiro is right on here. Go ahead.

[Dan Natterman]

When it occurred to me, Ben Shapiro, we, you and I had people who we thought were conservatives sound a lot like The Marxist Islamists who were attending this event last week, don't they?

[Ross Barkin]

I think it's exactly right. Unfortunately, there's a grievance culture that has become the dominant strain on the left that says that all people in the world who are poor, who have bad lives, that is the fault of the west, that is the fault of Israel, it's the fault of capitalism, it's the fault of the Jews, it's the fault of anyone except for themselves. They have no agency, and thus all the systems must be torn down from the rooftops all the way down to the ground. And you see that sort of mirrored on a weird horseshoe part of the right that is now arguing sort of the same thing, that the problems that the people have are intractable, that there's a shadowy group that's. That's manipulating all of this, that America actually was never great, America was wrong In World War II, America never landed on the moon, and these kind of two forces are now bizarrely joining hands in the middle is very strange.

[Dan Natterman]

Do you think there's enough of an effort to push back? I find that conservative groups and conservative organizations that have these weekend events and these seminars, whether they're for young people or think tanks or that sort of thing, they sort of sprinkle these events with these kooks. They sprinkle these events with these American haters who claim to be American firsters and are fake maga and even stab the president in the back.

[Ross Barkin]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's definitely an attempt by some of these organizations to, quote, unquote, maintain the big tent. But the reality is that, as many have said, the problem with a big tent is that you may end up with many, many clowns inside. And the most fundamental thing is that just because you're saying somebody votes Republican, that does not mean that they ought to be the preacher at the front of the church. They're not the person who ought to be leading the movement if they are spending all day criticizing the President of the United States as covering up a Mossad rape ring or being a tool of the Israelis for hitting an Iranian nuclear facility, a thing he has said literally his entire career that he was going to do. And so it seems to me that if we are to hold anything in sort of reverence, it ought to be the fundamental tenets of the American republic, which I believe to reside in conservatism. And if conservative organizations are simply going to give up the ghost on that in order to maintain a sort of pseudo coalition that is a gigantic moral and political Mistake was that a chilling.

[Dave Smith]

Interview by anybody's standard. Like, what the hell is he talking about? I mean, it's psychotic. And again, I can understand that. Charlie Kirk. Well, I mean, I think Charlie Kirk's attachment to Israel was threefold. One is that it's biblical. You know, he's a religious and they believe that Israel, you know, has the favor of God in some way to be in Israel.

[Harrison Smith]

Two.

[Dave Smith]

He'S anti Muslim. And three, it was expedient in conservative circles to be pro Israel. I shouldn't say perhaps. Four, he has on the merits. He believes Israel is right. But a lot of these people who are at the top sitting on an elephant is John Height's analogy. You know, sometimes they steer the elephant, but sometimes they go where the elephant wants to go. Just like Trump. I mean, to his credit, not as much as you think he might have. But Trump doesn't talk so much about how great the vaccine is anymore. He hasn't gone and denied the vaccine, but he followed his followers. They don't like the vaccine. Trump stopped taking credit for it. Charlie Kirk saw the writing on the wall. I'm sure that he might need to bend his position on Israel to be a little bit closer to what seems to be the position that's bubbling up on the right. Otherwise, he might be become a marginal figure. Ben Shapiro, to his credit, he's like, no, I'm not bending. I'm going to make my case even stronger. But there is going to meander around like, I didn't want to say anything about Charlie Kirk. I was never a big Charlie Kirk fan, although I did go to his inauguration party. I'm going to play this video now of something that Charlie Kirk said.

[Harrison Smith]

Israel, many times, the whole country's a fortress. When I first heard this story, I still had the same.

[Dave Smith]

Pause it there, Steve.

[Harrison Smith]

Gut instinct that I did initially.

[Dave Smith]

This is an interview he did, I think, on October 10 or 11, right after what happened in Israel. And these are the reports that we all know that Hamas was running around there for hours before Israel managed to root them out. So go ahead, play it, Stephen. Okay, go ahead.

[Harrison Smith]

Israel, many times, the whole country's a fortress. When I first heard this story, I still had the same gut instinct that I did initially. I find this very hard to believe. Right. The whole country is surveilled. And so let me just kind of go through this. We don't talk about Israeli politics very often and most Americans don't know this. The last nine months, Israel was on the brink of civil war. This judicial Stuff. There were hundreds of thousands of Israelis taking to the streets because Bibi Netanyahu was basically redefining the Israeli constitution. There were protests planned this week against Netanyahu where they anticipated tens of thousands of people to take to the streets. That's all gone, Patrick. Netanyahu now has an emergency government and a mandate to lead. I'm not willing to say to go so far that saying that Netanyahu knew or there was intelligence here, but I think some questions need to be asked. Was there a stand down order?

[Dave Smith]

You heard his parallel stand down order.

[Harrison Smith]

I'm not saying six hours. I don't believe it. They're live streaming the killing of Jews. Was that somebody in the government say stand down? That is a legitimate non conspiracy question. I just want to make sure my position is clear here, but I would. So, Patrick, there are other explanations. It's possible that the Netanyahu government was double crossed by bad agents. Okay, that's dark, but it's not as dark as what we're talking about. Okay. Another aspect is that Netanyahu might have traitors in his government, like legitimate traitors that have infiltrated. I was texting with some senior people in the IDF and they said, charlie, can't say too much, but let's just say the same problem you have with the left in America, we have here in Israel. So there's something to think about. Just something to think about.

[Dave Smith]

Right.

[Harrison Smith]

But there are some serious questions here, Patrick. And let me tell you, my pattern recognition over the last five years has become pretty sharp. Covid, Maui fires. You know, Epstein, when I see a story and it doesn't click, our guts are usually right, see. Do you think there's any intel community involvement in this?

[Megyn Kelly]

I wouldn't be surprised, Epstein. I am convinced, based on my own sources and my own reporting on this story, he wasn't one of ours, so.

[Harrison Smith]

He was an American. Which leads basically three options. MI6, Saudi or Mossad.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yep.

[Harrison Smith]

Which one would you choose?

[Megyn Kelly]

I guess Mossad, given his connection to Ghislaine Maxwell.

[Harrison Smith]

So what does that mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, I mean, it's possible that that's the reason everything's getting buried, that there is some treasure trove and it's getting buried because.

[Harrison Smith]

How many people here believe that? Raise your hand. Okay, I'd say about half. Half the hands think that it's being buried because of an Israeli thing.

[Dave Smith]

All right, let's take them in order. First of all, let me. The second thing, so I know people who know Charlie Kirk who adore him and been very Upset with me. I've had some arguments with kind of important people who are defending him and know him. I don't know him. And they say it's not true. He was, he was pro Israel. He became more so as he learned more about the conflict post October 7th. I have no reason to doubt that. And yet, if I'm honest, I have a trait where from time to time somebody does something and I feel like unless they, you know, are contrite and they, you know, explain themselves, I feel like it defines a person in a way. It gives me a glimpse of them that I can't erase from my mind and I'll never have again. If you make lists, okay, there are the pro Israel people. Ben Shapiro, who is a pro Israel person. In a million years, when he heard that Hamas Israel was late for six hours trying to get Hamas out of Israel, it never occurred to him maybe Israel is doing it on purpose. Maybe Israel meaning it's not just one person. Maybe the IDF and all the people and the people watching the live streams and the soldiers and the people giving the orders and the opposition leaders in the cabinet, maybe they are all purposely allowing Hamas to rampage through Israel, rape people, kill children, torture, take hostages, take rip babies from their parents. Maybe this is all part of the plan. Now, a reflexively pro Israel person just doesn't come to toying with that idea very easily. Kirk is the only person I know that I can think of who fancied himself pro Israel. Who would have uttered that at that time? Plenty of anti Israel people, sure, in Aaron Mate and Max Blumenthal like this is right up their alley. But. But if you do a Venn diagram, he is a circle of one that overlaps with the anti Israel people who believe that. And by the way, plenty of anti Israel people would never imagine such a thing. So this is an insight in some way into the founder gene. It's the founder gene, the founder mutation. They can't resist these fucking conspiracy theories. It's a sickness.

[Dan Natterman]

This video is shortly after October 7.

[Dave Smith]

A few days after. Now, of course, this then extends to the Epstein thing. Now, the thing I had my beef with Megyn Kelly about this because, yes, it's true. This woman, Vicky Ward, reported that she heard that this guy Acosta, who was the prosecutor, whatever, laid off Epstein because he was told Epstein was intelligence. You've heard this story. Now, Meghan makes a lot of this, as do they all. But what they don't tell you, and Meghan knows this, is that the Office of Professional Responsibility during the I Guess it was during the Trump administration at this investigation. They looked into it. They interviewed Acosta. Acosta, this is under oath, under penalty of perjury, can go to prison. People did go to prison for lying to such organizations, such organs of the state. He denied it. He said, there's nothing to it. Nobody, I don't know if he said, nobody ever told him. He just said, like, I don't know anything about it. And then they offered him. This is very important. They offered him a classified setting, like a skiff, where he could divulge what it is that he was told in a top secret setting so that he wouldn't, you know, be accountable or anything like that. And he said, no, I don't need it. I declined to do that. Now, this is what bothers me so much. You can believe it's true. Wouldn't be the first time there was a spy. But it's journalistic malpractice. To tell your followers, your listeners about this remark and about this, this strand of evidence, and to withhold from that. Withhold from them. Is that my phone. Withhold from them the knowledge that this has been looked into by the government under oath, and the person has outright distanced himself from it. There's absolutely no evidence. And as a matter of fact, Vicky Ward, the one who actually reported it at first, she has said she doesn't believe it. They're feeding their followers a bunch of, you know, unsubstantiated crap. And it's spreading. And it's spreading and spreading. Candace Owens has 7 million followers. That's about the number of Jews there are in the United States of America. Now, of course, some of them are people who follow her like I do, but of course, a lot of Jews are not pro Jewish, but it's tremendous influence, right? Tremendous. She has a tremendous hypodermic needle that she can use to inject anything she wants into the American bloodstream. And people who are concerned about, as Douglas Murray called it, the hygiene of our information universe ought to be distancing themselves from her. Calling her out, not talking about how she's been taken out of context or Tucker's been taken out of context. Now, I know Candace has not been taken out of context because every time I see something she said on Twitter, I say, that can't possibly be true. Because I'm.

[Dan Natterman]

I'm.

[Dave Smith]

I'm always a person who says that, you know, I. I don't hate my enemies that much. They. They couldn't have really said that. Sure. So I look into them all. They're all true. Everything she's and, and worse. So let's, let's, let's play Candace. Which one is it? So you get a, a sense for Candace and Tucker. And then we're basically done with the videos. There's, there's going to be clips here by also Ian Carroll. I think Ian Carroll is her person. She has guest hosting for her. He's a Holocaust denier. He was the first person to come out and accuse on Twitter that accuse Israel of being behind the Kirk murder. It was so quick that even Dave Smith said, listen, I don't think you have any evidence for that. And interestingly enough, Dave Smith's following wasn't having it.

[Alex Jones]

I'm sitting here saying, look, I don't see any evidence to believe that this is an Israeli conspiracy, that Israel was involved in Charlie Kirk's assassination. And in response, overwhelmingly, I just saw people posting. Well, they, they posted the chat. Well, that was one. That was one assumption. But then a bunch of people were just like going like, did he even read the Max Blumenthal article? And I'm like, yeah, like, did you catch the line in it where he said there's no evidence that Israel was involved in the assassination? Like, I. Yeah, I think that was a very relevant part.

[Dave Smith]

Now, this is very important. Let me just comment on it now. It's very important because it shows how the paralypsis is so proforma. It doesn't really matter that every single one of them will say, I'm not saying Israel assassinated Charlie Kirk. Because when somebody like Dave Smith says there's no evidence that Israel assassinated Charlie Kirk, their following goes nuts. Because they understand that these comments are just disclaimers meant just to give camouflage. They understand that that's just the peel of the banana, that to be thrown away and the meat of the banana is what they feast on, which is Israel killed Charlie Kirk. Now, this is, of course, everything I presented so far is edited. I'm not the person to take things out of context. Out of context, to me means that if someone were to see the entire clip, they would say, wait a second, that's different. That's not what you led me to believe. That's not. How could you leave out this part? If I had known that, I wouldn't have had that reaction. I don't do that. As a matter of fact, sometimes these clips get longer because I want to give the benefit of the doubt to any argument that I can think of where someone might say, how could you leave out that sentence? No. So these are not out of context. And by the way, anybody listens to this, you send me any email of something that I left out, I will put it up on Twitter and say somebody said I left this out. It was out of context. I'm not trying to to win my argument by below the belt tactics. Go ahead.

[Max Blumenthal]

Moons ago, before they decided to establish Israel as a country. I know you've read like the short version in the classroom and it was like, oh, the Holocaust happened and then we realized that Israel needs to stay. No, that's not how it went down. That's not how it went down. At the F all, okay? Catholics and Christians were going missing on Passover. Then they would find bodies, okay, across Europe and they were able to trace them back to Jews. Blood libel. This Frankish cult which is masquerading behind Jews, still participates in this shit to this day. Okay? Why would you want the pedophiles to flee there? Why would you want the pedophiles to be procreating? Unless the nation of Israel may have been established by some frankists as looking like Theodore Herzl's family was from the exact same area in Moravia and in Bohemia where the frankist cult was founded. Maybe he was not actually a Torah worshiping Jew. Like, I don't know. I'm just throwing out some ideas here. And by throwing out some ideas, I mean, I've read a ton of books and I figured it out, okay?

[Harrison Smith]

Jeffrey Epstein was the world's most prolific and evil sex trafficker that we know of so far. He very clearly was a Jewish organization of Jewish people. And so that's a dark stain on Israel and on the Jewish people if you own it. And so the, the Mossad has this weird other angle where they have this like cultural, racial, religious angle with which to approach people. And again, remember, they don't necessarily have to approach someone. Be like, hey, we want you to.

[Dan Natterman]

Be a spy, or hey, we want.

[Harrison Smith]

You to subvert your country on behalf of Israel. They might just approach someone and be like, hey, you resign.

[Dan Natterman]

You love Israel, right?

[Harrison Smith]

We have this project and we could really use your support helping Israel. It's easy for it to sound like you're saying all Jews are in on some global conspiracy, which is not what I'm saying.

[Dave Smith]

Paralypsis. Who's really in power now? Oh, this guy. I mean, this is Tate. One of the ways. Oh, what about the Jewish question? Don't Jewish people control the world? And this is maybe what you're digging at. And Andrew may not have alluded to, but you don't have to be a massive conspiracy theorist to know that all the founders of the Federal Reserve bank and the current system of financial control in the United States government, all their founding members were Jews.

[Harrison Smith]

Something happened for sure, right? But I know that the narratives around the Holocaust that I was taught in school, they were forged in the era of controlled information. I try not to, like, go overbearing on, like, everybody has to be Jewish.

[Dave Smith]

It's just like, that will make you, like.

[Dan Natterman]

Yeah.

[Harrison Smith]

And it's like. And that's not the point. The point is not that, like, all Jewish people are in on this thing. The point is that, like, yeah. Is that Jewish people are susceptible to being approached by this organization. And, like, and we need to support the Jewish people that reject it. Like, we need to encourage them to.

[Dan Natterman]

Be on our side. So, yeah, these people that are, oh, Jews bad. They're. They're a big problem.

[Harrison Smith]

Exactly. Because we need to bring Jews to.

[Dan Natterman]

Our side, not push them away, not be like, oh, you're.

[Harrison Smith]

We need to heal. We don't need to, like, create more divides, because the last thing we need is to create another Holocaust of sorts, whatever that was.

[Max Blumenthal]

I started digging up Sigmund Freud and realized he was pedophile. His dad was a pedophile. His grandson was a pedophile. A family of pedophiles. And this is. Gets into that broader point about what Alex Jones was saying, that Stalin was Jewish, which then kind of gets into the question of the media, who for a very long time tried to convince us that Stalin and Vladimir Lenin were anti Semitic. And then I learned. Wait, Stalin was married to.

[Dave Smith]

Yes, they were. They were literally a part of the Jewish cabal that you know and credit.

[Max Blumenthal]

When I talk about crushing history, where if you even say that. Which I'm saying it because I looked into it and I found a friend who understands Georgia. Like, everybody knows that Stalin was Jewish.

[Dave Smith]

And, like, biggest anti Semite suburbs. LBJ was Jewish.

[Max Blumenthal]

People I don't think knew this, that LBJ was Jewish.

[Dave Smith]

Kamala Harris is not black, but Jewish.

[Max Blumenthal]

And the evidence is pointing to. And there's no question. It's not even evidence. Like, nobody can dispute this. Snopes can't dispute this. Kamala Harris is Jewish.

[Dave Smith]

But aipac was behind the Kennedy assassination.

[Max Blumenthal]

We know that there was once a president who wanted to make AIPAC register as foreign. And he ended up shot. Coincidentally ended up shot. So we've got this friend and ally, and we're not allowed to ask questions about JFK's shooting. Yeah, the Mossad there on the day that JFK was shot. And so it's quite shocking to know that information to realize that JFK got killed and to also know that the person who allegedly shot him, Leo's Walt Harvey said he didn't shoot him, didn't kill him. And then he was shot by a guy named Jacob Rubenstein. Ruby Jacob Rubenstein, Muammar Gaddafi alleges was also an Israeli national.

[Dave Smith]

That Zelensky was an evil Bolshevika Jew.

[Max Blumenthal]

People think that the the greatest mass murderer was Adolf Hitler and no, actually if you want to talk about genocide, the fact that people in America don't know.

[Dave Smith]

Pause it there for a second.

[Max Blumenthal]

The Bolsheviks posit Christians.

[Dave Smith]

We're just. This is the people listening. There's a tweet overlaid there. Bolsheviks was the Nazi. Go to that. You know. And her tweet there is. Thank you for the book recommendation. You are talking about the Bolshevik party. I am talking about the actual administration. So basically the people elected with real power, 447 of the Bolsheviks out of 525 were Jews. She's talking about the communists in Russia was really just that Soviet Russia was a Jewish conspiracy. So go ahead, continue.

[Max Blumenthal]

Concentration camp come from the Bolsheviks. The reason why we're not allowed to learn about these people, we don't talk about Henry Kagoda is because he's a Jew. I mean, locking down churches. And people tell me to go support Zelensky as he's shutting down churches. You want me to support this Bolshevik? I'm not doing it.

[Harrison Smith]

Ukraine, as you may have heard, is led by a man called Zelensky. Sweaty and rat like a comedian turned oligarch, a persecutor of Christians, a friend of blackrock.

[Dave Smith]

While we're there, play number nine. Now let me just get like, these are the people Megan is defending. I can't. Okay, this is great. This is the best one of all. Good.

[Harrison Smith]

In my bed at night and I got attacked while I was asleep with my wife and four dogs in the.

[Alex Jones]

Bed and mauled in a spiritual attack by a demon.

[Harrison Smith]

Yeah, by a demon. Claw marks on my sides. Four claw marks on either side, underneath my arms and on my left shoulder. They're bleeding. No one has to believe me. I don't care. The US government has physical evidence of crashed non human made aircraft as well as the bodies of the pilots who flew those aircraft. An alien species is flying hypersonic aircraft over our city. So they're from here and they've been here for thousands of years, whatever they are. And it's Pretty clear to me that they're spiritual entities, whatever that means are supernatural. In other words, UFOs are actually real, and apparently so is extraterrestrial life. Now we know. So these are spiritual phenomenon. There's no evidence they're from another planet. I mean, I think that's the op. That's the lie that they're from Mars. Look, space, the atmosphere is really well monitored. It's a binary. They're either, you know, you're on Team Good or Team Bad, meaning you can assign any name to it you want. But, like, what are these things? Evil, satanic, are they good or bad? And. And I think some of them are bad. And if the US government knows that, or elements the people within the US.

[Alex Jones]

Government know that, then, you know, then.

[Harrison Smith]

They'Re serving a bad force. In a normal country, this news would qualify as a bombshell, the story of the millennium. But in our country, it doesn't.

[Dave Smith]

It's insane. Okay, seriously. I'm sorry. I have spent a not insignificant amount of time around severely mentally ill people who suffer from delusions. And this guy should be institutionalized. Like, for real.

[Ross Barkin]

For real.

[Dave Smith]

Like, the fact that people take him that seriously and he has millions of followers is indicative of, like, a very sick country that we live in. Like, Tucker Carlson should be in a mental institution. I mean, I've said many times, if you go to the hospital bleeding, and the nurse says to you, how did you. Why are you bleeding? And you say, I was mauled by demons. They do not let you go home. They will keep you for observation. Because obviously if you think you're mauled by demons, you're probably a threat to yourself or others. This is absolutely normally interpreted as mental illness. Now, unless you think he was mauled by demons. But when you know somebody's saying such things, and you could just go through the list, like, does anybody actually think the government knows about spiritual beings under the water that have been there for thousands? This is so crazy. So I just keep coming back to it. So why would anybody take these people seriously on anything?

[Megyn Kelly]

Why?

[Dave Smith]

What? I mean, it's not left or right. It's just basic methods.

[Ross Barkin]

I learned a lot from those clips. I didn't know about the spiritual beings underwater. I'm excited to know about that.

[Dave Smith]

It's insanity, right? And. And so. And they're all joined at the hip and they go all the way to Rogan.

[Dan Natterman]

I would just say that there's people that believe crazy shit that aren't mentally ill. I mean, I guess it depends how you define mental Illness. But, you know.

[Dave Smith]

Well, you know, that's delusion. Like what he. What Carlson is talking about is absolutely delusional. This is the thing. There are. There are people who believe in religion, and it's not mental illness. We know. We just know it's not. Not mental illness because empirically we know that people who believe this stuff are not mentally ill.

[Dan Natterman]

So they can function, you know, well, but they.

[Dave Smith]

And they can be extremely rational. That's. That's a different group of people than people who say, I'm bleeding because I was mauled by demons. Right. That's something else. You're actually bleeding. Maybe his people say his dogs did it, whatever it was. But that is much more likely to be mental illness. But then it's. You know, there's. I mean, I. You could go on for a long time putting up the other stuff that Tucker Carlson has said. So. Look, I didn't want to. As I said, I think earlier, I didn't want to say anything bad about Charlie Kirk, because the fact is, it really doesn't matter what you think about him, what I think about him, what anybody thinks about him. He was murdered. And it's every bit the same. It should. You should react to it every bit in the same way, whether you liked him or didn't like him, because it's morally right to react that way. And because, by the way, if you get weak on that principle, it will come for you. Right. So for practical purposes as well, so. And Moyna had. Had said something like this, too. So I really didn't want to pollute any conversation about Charlie Kirk's murder by talking about how I felt about him, because inevitably people will take that and somehow feel that I'm diluting or in some way giving a nod to the people who are happy about his being killed. What they're doing is 10 times worse if they want to make the story that. Which is, as I said, there's probably some truth to it, that there was a fissure. Is that the word growing between Kirk and the Bill Ackman, Ben Shapiro types in the conservative movement for whatever reason. And listen, when Glenn Lowry began to become sort of anti Israel, I drove up to Providence two times to speak with him to try to plead my case and why I thought he was wrong. It's not offensive that somebody like. To me that somebody like Bill Ackman would want to have a meeting with him and kick it around with him. Blackmail would be a different thing, but there's no evidence of that. Withholding funding. We don't even know how much funny he gets from these things. He seems like he gets a lot of money anyway. I mean, Turning Point doesn't seem like it's is hungry for money. But having said all that, fine, talk about that. But to mix it in, in this insidious way with these questions about whether or not Israel killed him, this is a fucking outrage. And I don't understand why Megan would pretend it's not. Why she would pretend not to see, that's what they're doing today. She woke up on the other side of the bed. I heard her today. She's like, it's ridiculous what these people are doing. Trying to undermine the case that this. What's the name? Tyler Robinson. Jesus, that is ridiculous. Tyler, we have the text messages, we have the testimony. It's very clear that he did this. It's very clear. He was cooking for many days. She's completely clear eyed about the fact that Tyler Robinson did it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show. We are continuing to follow the latest developments in the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Yesterday, the alleged killer, Tyler Robinson was formally charged by Utah authorities who confirmed they are seeking the death penalty for aggravated murder. The media reaction has been shocking, but not surprising, again with reporters and pundits claiming the motive is unclear, despite alleged shooter Tyler Robinson telling his parents there's too much evil. And he referring to Charlie, spreads too much hate.

[Dave Smith]

So here to my mind, Megan is righteously contemptuous of the people who would question, as she puts it in the Chiron sidebar, the obvious political motivation of the man who killed Charlie Kirk. But she only excludes from that contempt, it seems, the people who question it based on a suspicion that Israel might have been involved. To be clear, she doesn't exclude them because she thinks that Israel was involved. I'd almost stake my life on that. She excludes them because she's afraid, in my opinion, of alienating a large segment of her audience and perhaps angering some friends.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's according to the charging documents. And in text messages to his male roommate, quote, transitioning to female, which cannot be done, Robinson wrote, referring to Kirk, quote, I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out.

[Dave Smith]

Well, okay, but that's not compatible with the stuff that you were open to the day before, that all these other people are saying.

[Dan Natterman]

Unless he thinks that Tyler Robinson was somehow recruited by the Mossad.

[Dave Smith]

Well, that's. Yeah, that's what, that's what they're going to try to say. First of all, I want to say that I watched a clip from very shortly, taped before Kirk was killed, in which he said that, you know, he was being critical of Netanyahu, didn't mean that he was changing his position, position vis a vis Israel, and that it was really being like twisted and that. Yeah, but I just think that, I know a lot of people are circling the wagons around that and I, my feeling is I'm gonna stipulate he was changing his opinion on Israel. I don't care. Now. Yeah, I mean, it's not, it's not.

[Dan Natterman]

Relevant, but as you mentioned, he was suspicious of Israel even back in 2023 when he was talking about.

[Dave Smith]

But then there's a whole body of work where he's very, very supportive of Israel and makes arguments in Israel's favor. And if he changes position, he's inhabiting now the position of Ehud Barak, Ehud Olmert, Yoav Gallant Israeli patriots. It's not like there's a short, I don't mean left wing, anti Israel Israelis and Jews, I mean patriotic Israelis who supported the war who are now feeling that they, they are diverging from Netanyahu's plan here. So if Charlie Kirk has moved to that camp, that's certainly possible. Like so what? Right, so what? And, and the conversation should, should not be any, you know, more complicated than that. Yeah, I don't understand what's going on. I don't understand why, as I said, another person's been body snatched. Now Megyn Kelly is pretending that these people are not modern day old time anti Semites like Father Coughlin and everything that we heard about from our parents.

[Dan Natterman]

Or at least lunatics.

[Dave Smith]

No, they're embracing all the old conspiracy theories, all of them of Jewish control, Jewish orchestration of wars. And by the way, the other thing we didn't get to about Tucker Carlson is that he also is flirting with David Irving theories. He brought on Daryl Cooper, martyr maid, specifically to get Daryl to make the point that the Jews orchestrated World War II. This is, I mean, I should, should play it in case anybody doubts me. In the interview, Daryl says Churchill's a madman. He played with, he played with toys. He's the, arguably the worst villain of World War II. And then he says, and, and he was installed by Zionists financiers to do their bidding. That's how Churchill came to power. And then he backtracked from it. So I asked him about it and he blamed it all on Tucker.

[Dan Natterman]

Go ahead, play it better.

[Dave Smith]

But the biggest audience you ever had was you telling people that the reason the worst thing in human history happened was because the Jews put Hitler.

[Harrison Smith]

In fact, look.

[Dan Natterman]

I've told you before, I didn't know we were gonna talk about World War II. I wasn't prepared to talk about that. I definitely know we were gonna talk about Churchill. And if you watched. And I know you watched it. If you watch the thing. And there are a couple instances like this, like, that you mentioned earlier when he was like, what about Japan? Why is Japan doing fine? And so forth, where I felt like he's. He was trying to draw me into, like, deep waters that I was not comfortable with. And you can. I think you could see it in the interview where, like, I start to get a little shifty in my seat and less articulate because I'm.

[Dave Smith]

A wry smile. Yeah, yeah.

[Dan Natterman]

And that Rice smile, by the way, was like. You know, it was. It was sort of taken as, like, a knowing smile when, you know, really, what.

[Dave Smith]

What.

[Dan Natterman]

It was a smile of like. Like, what are you trying to do to me here? You know? And so by the time I got to the David Irving argument, which is where that comes from, you know, the.

[Harrison Smith]

The stuff about Churchill being bailed out by financiers.

[Dave Smith]

Can you pause it there?

[Dan Natterman]

40. Which did happen.

[Dave Smith]

David Irving. You know, David Irving is. Ross. Right. David Irving is the father of conspiracy theorists. He has acronyms on his website like arsehol, which is. Stands for. I forget how it works out, but for. For Jews who pretend they were victims of the Holocaust. And he believes there was. There were no gas chambers. I mean, he's. He's. He's the. The motherlode. Wasn't he sued by Deborah Lipsche? And. And the court concluded he was. Had lied in his books and that he was. Well, that he. That he. She sued her for libel, and the court found for her. And in the opinion, they went into great detail about the flaws in his scholarship. There's a book about it called Lying About Hitler by Sir Richard Evans, which I recommend. So go ahead, continue the thing.

[Dan Natterman]

You know, he had already asked me, like, twice, like, well, why would Churchill do this if it didn't make any sense for the British Empire? And I kind of walked around and gave, like, a meandering answer. He said, well, why else? I did it again, kind of again off the top of my head, because I wasn't planning on talking about this. He's like, well, why else? And I'm like, well, you know, people.

[Harrison Smith]

Have written about this.

[Dave Smith]

So what you're describing is Tucker's baiting you to blame The Jews. You realize he's setting the trap. He says, why else? Why else? And you could have said, tucker, I'm not going there. If you're implying that it was the Jews.

[Dan Natterman]

No, no. Well, look, yeah, maybe.

[Harrison Smith]

There'S a reason.

[Dan Natterman]

I don't do interviews very often. We spent the last 70 years, I.

[Harrison Smith]

Mean, in Europe's case, like literally throwing.

[Dan Natterman]

People in jail for looking into the wrong side. So there's so.

[Harrison Smith]

And even, even, particularly in Austria, that's.

[Dave Smith]

Just a little bit that was clipped at the end. So there was a little bit of that Tucker interview which didn't go notice. We're talking about the deterioration of free speech, respect around the world. And Tucker makes this remark about how well, particularly in Austria, I'm like, austria, I looked it up. Austria had prosecuted David Irving. And then if you go to Daryl Cooper's substack, he recounts that the night before the interview, they were having a conversation at dinner about this stuff. And then it just carried over into the interview. So what more does one need to know about where these people are coming from? I know, I know I'm preaching to the leftist here, so I know you're happy about this. But, you know, I would say this, I used to say this about the left. This is not my left.

[Ross Barkin]

Right, yeah. No, I mean, conspiracy theories have sprung on all ideological spectrums. I don't think any particular party or bent has a monopoly on conspiracy theories. I really don't. I think you see a lot fomenting on the right now. You see some on the left too. I think what's interesting is when even they watching those clips, how even they concede that they don't have the hard evidence. And again, when you look at this shooting of Kirk, the assassination, the shot that was taken was not extraordinary. There's no reason Tyler Robinson had to be trained by outside forces or been some sort of plant. He was from a gun family, he knew weapons. And you speak to people who know weapons, it was a very makeable shot. So there's literally no evidence. And that's the thing you come back to is there's no evidence he was part of a Netanyahu is real conspiracy. And there's no evidence that there's any far left organization around him, whatever his views were. And the general bent of it is that he's from a conservative family and he became anti Kirk and he was motivated by hatred of Kirk. So obviously he was shifting left, I suppose. But really we don't a. We don't know very much about him yet. And B, if you look at the history of most assassinations and killings, the justifications that the usually young men create are post hoc. They're ways to inform their own madness. And usually if you look at whether it was Thomas Crooks or you look at a lot of these killers, there's not a clear ideological through line. I think each side, the left has wanted it at times and the right wants it now. They want easy answers. The thing about conspiracy theories is they're simple. I mean, they're not simple, but they flow from logic. It's made up logic, but it makes life seem more tolerable. It makes life seem more comfortable. When you can look at the world and say, I found the theorem, I found the answer, X equals Y equals Z instead of. History in the present day is quite chaotic. And there are people with deep seated mental illness who have access to weapons. There are people who feel motivated to. Either they have delusions of grandeur or just they're delusional and they commit acts of spectacular violence. And that's the history of.

[Dan Natterman]

Is it possible that this guy, that this guy was completely irrational? Like I think John Wilkes Booth was completely rational? I think. Is it possible this guy was completely rational, thought he was doing the world a service by taking out Charlie Kirk and thought furthermore that he could get away with it?

[Ross Barkin]

I, I don't know if he thought he could get away with it. I mean, it's clear that didn't last very long. That's the thing with a true rational person, have been caught so soon, turned in by their family. No, I mean, I don't, I don't think anyone who is of. Even if you have a political justification like Wilkes Booth. No, I don't, I don't think Wilk.

[Dan Natterman]

Booth, but I think was perfectly rational. You know, in that case.

[Harrison Smith]

Right.

[Ross Barkin]

But also there are many other men who felt like he did and they aren't the ones going out to commit murder. Even in the 1860s. I'm saying to take the act, it's one thing to have a through line and ideology. And some assassins do, a lot of them don't. Some do. But even then, right. You can feel I'm motivated to do something, I'm angry, I want to do something. But to actually take the step of getting the gun and killing that. I think rationality is out the window, especially when it's, in a way you are. It's not a crime. Maybe it's a crime of passion. Obviously, you know, people inadvertently kill, we know that. But when you're so Driven by anger and hatred that you're willing to kill another person. That's a rare act. Very few people kill.

[Dave Smith]

Do you think it's a result of a manifestation of the high temperature of our rhetoric over the last 10 years?

[Ross Barkin]

No, no. I mean, I mean maybe, but again when you study history, I mean the whole 20th century was filled with assassinations that the late 19th century, I mean you had politically motivated anarchist killings and you could say, well, were those rational bombings? I mean the whole 20th century, I mean it's a recurrence of.

[Dave Smith]

I want to ask you a question.

[Ross Barkin]

About maybe, maybe, I don't know, maybe the rhetoric is up. So maybe you could say that's those.

[Dave Smith]

Those old killings, some of them at least happened within the lifetimes of people.

[Ross Barkin]

Who.

[Dave Smith]

Would duel like killing in those days as extra judicial.

[Ross Barkin]

I'm at the 20th century, though, forget the 19th into the mid 20th, the middle late Gerald Ford had two assassination attempts on him within 17 days.

[Dave Smith]

Right. So, so then. Right, so then that's when I was.

[Ross Barkin]

A kid and then Reagan is shot and also killed.

[Dave Smith]

The thing is the issues, this is what I was thinking about. The issues when I was a kid were very, very important and real college age kids were being sent off to Vietnam and dying. Black people were fighting to be treated with a minimum of dignity in the world, in the public life, ride the bus, people to vote, go to restaurants, be spoken to properly. So in some way I understand more that these issues were so intense that violence popped up today despite the fact that we're apoplectic and going crazy about everything, we don't have big problems comparatively.

[Ross Barkin]

Yes. Compared to the 1960s.

[Dave Smith]

You know, and so violence about these problems.

[Ross Barkin]

Yeah.

[Dave Smith]

Is, is bizarre. It's ginned up. You know, it's one thing when you're, when you're fighting to not be sent off to war to die and you're fighting for whatever people think they're fighting for today. So I, I, in some way I do think I made this analogy. Global warming is real. But of course in any particular hurricane, no matter how bad it is, we really don't know.

[Ross Barkin]

Right.

[Dave Smith]

Global warming, because we've always had bad hurricanes. Right. And, but we do know that unless we, unless we attend to the carbon in the atmosphere, we're going to have more and more hurricanes.

[Ross Barkin]

Yeah.

[Dave Smith]

I don't know. Nobody can know whether this guy was going to kill somebody. And by the way, sometimes it's political violence, but the people who commit political violence, they might have just killed somebody non politically like they could just Be want someone else to kill somebody. Right?

[Ross Barkin]

Yeah.

[Dave Smith]

This is a little bit more attention seeking. But I do feel that if we don't, as it were, lower the carbon in the atmosphere of our rhetoric, we are going to see more and more.

[Ross Barkin]

Well, I think we're in. I should clarify and say we're in a very volatile era politically. I think that's very true, and I don't want to dismiss that. I meant more that we have a long history in this country of these style of killings. But yes, we are currently in an era where we're very polarized. The political rhetoric is very hot. It's been that way now for a decade.

[Dave Smith]

And we have algorithmic accelerants, you know.

[Ross Barkin]

And you have social media. So no doubt there are ways one can be more quickly radicalized. I think that's all true. I think it's very true. I think there's something now in the mood and the culture and the currents, and I'm curious to see if there's more of a movement away from the mass shooting to the targeted political killing. It seems like we're moving there. Mass shootings haven't ended, but there have been fewer of them, at least in the spectacular fashion of the 2010s. You look at the 2010s between Sandy Hook, between Aurora, then into 2022, the Valde, there was, I mean, a parkland in 2018, there were so many Las Vegas.

[Dan Natterman]

I think it was a social contagion.

[Ross Barkin]

Well, I do think there's a memetic element to this. I do think there is something to the fact that Columbine inaugurated the era of the mass shooting of a very vulnerable population. You didn't see that as much in the 20th century. You saw the targeted killings, you saw the bombings. I mean, Oklahoma City, obviously, terrorist attacks. But the idea of just walking into a school and just shooting completely defenseless people, Columbine really begins that. And you see from Columbine to Virginia Tech, that was in 2007, and then really into the 2000 and tens, which had this rash of really awful continuous mass shootings. I do think there's something about one alienated mentally ill person sees this as a way forward. I think for a while there was a lot of infamy bestowed upon the early mass shooters. You look at the Columbine kids, James Holmes with Aurora, Adam Lanza for Sandy Hook, even a guy like Elliot Rodger, people sort of forget him, but he was kind of like the inaugural Incel. He left behind this Incel manifesto. And he shot Up.

[Dan Natterman]

Which one was he?

[Ross Barkin]

He was the California one in 2014. He shot up a bunch of people. It's like at a college campus. And he went around and he left behind this very detailed manifesto. Hating on women sort of at the beginning of that kind of really deep, dark misogyny. And then it continues. Right. And so I do. I do think there is something about alienated young men in particular, see something happening. They have no outlet for their various, you know, real, real mental struggles. Guns are easy to come by in America and you go act on it. Right. And it's easier in a way than a targeted assassination. For an assassination, you do have to take a tough shot. You have to plan it out. The school shooting was simple. You walk in with a gun and you start killing people. And now you see whether it was with mangione crooks and now the Charlie Cook shooting. We're now moving back into targeted political killings. I don't know exactly what that means. It feels like there's a shift.

[Dan Natterman]

The mass shootings were often suicidal in nature, whereas the assassinations don't seem like these people want to die.

[Ross Barkin]

Yes, some. Some definitely were suicidal. A lot of them were suicidal in nature. Somewhere. Somewhere the Parkland guy lived. James Holmes was completely Doreen. He. He lived. Yeah. No, there were definitely suicidal elements to it. Some were just killed by police as well. You know, I. I do think that. I do think there. I have one theory that is not proven, but I've wondered about this. Is that because we've had so many mass shootings for those who seek infamy, who seek recognition, I don't know if I'd put the Charlie Kirk killer in that category. I think if you're seeking infamy today, mass shooting is not the way to go because there have been too many and Americans tune them out. I think that's the dark truth. We've had so many. Now, if you want infamy, it's the targeted political killing. That's how you get.

[Dave Smith]

The law of diminishing returns has kicked in.

[Ross Barkin]

I mean, it's. The sad truth is. Yes. I mean, that's the reality. They've happened so many times in such gruesome fashion between Sandy Hook, between Aurora in a movie theater, between all these killings. I mean, Las Vegas, was he shot 800 something people. I mean, it's absurd. Yes. I think now if you are seeking infamy, the mass shooting, you will not get it. Especially also media outlets treat them differently. Now you see that the killer is not elevated as much as they what.

[Dan Natterman]

About the fact that Luigi got so much adulation especially might have motivated this guy, Tyler Robinson?

[Ross Barkin]

Well, that's where I talk about the mimetic element of this. Yes. And that's where I think there is something to the idea that trends happen. A would be killer sees something happening and they get the idea. So, yes, I think with Mangioni, with crooks and Trump, though, crooks didn't. If crooks had gotten the kill shot, he would have been Lee Harvey Oswald territory. Instead, he's forgotten because he didn't kill Trump. So that's also the reality of all this.

[Dave Smith]

So, I mean, we can wrap it up soon. I'm. I'm very concerned about, as you know, the. I relate to it as a, As a Jewish parent. I mean, I was always into this. I was always upset by these conspiracy theories. Always. My whole life I was upset about the conspiracy theories about COVID Russia, gay, like, you name it. Obviously election denial. They're all bad. I mean, Russiagate is a different category because there was, so to speak, evidence. There was, you know, so to speak, something that people could, could massage in their minds to be able. If they, if they zoned, tuned out and refused to look at.

[Ross Barkin]

Yeah, the counter here at the Netanyahu just seems like Charlie Kirk had a meeting with Ackman. That's all they got. There's not, there's not much else but the.

[Dave Smith]

And I don't know if it will lead to violence against Jews as this spreads more and more and more. It wouldn't shock me. We've had violence at synagogues already. But if you start feeding a lot of people the notion that the Jews are behind killing our presidents banging our children, like, you know, you just stack on every single thing bad and say the Jews are behind it killing Charlie Kirk. At some point you are going to provoke somebody. But I'm more concerned about just the atmospherics of my Jewish kids. Your Jewish kids growing up under that cloud.

[Ross Barkin]

Yeah.

[Dave Smith]

Of. We are the, the. The. The people that. And this is where my father grew up. Anyway, do you want to hear before you go, Dave Smith read some of the text messages between him and Charlie Kirk shortly before he died. And they are actually interesting. And they. You do. Do I have that as number eight?

[Alex Jones]

But yeah.

[Dave Smith]

Go ahead.

[Alex Jones]

Really did. And we started right away talking about like thinkers and books and this and that. And so as soon as we start talking about it, I'm already like, all right, Charlie. So you know what it is already, dude, Right. You know that the Lakud party got us into the last seven wars. So what the are we talking about here? You know. And then he would kind of just like laugh and chuckle and like, look, wait. And he'd go, I. Well, he goes, look, I know what you mean. I know what you mean. He goes. And then he would say something like. He'd be like, look, I'm a Christian man and it's really important to me that we preserve these holy sites and that they be.

[Dave Smith]

Oh, can you pause there?

[Alex Jones]

Western civilization. And then I'd be.

[Dave Smith]

I said earlier that he. There was. There were multiple pillars of Charlie Crook support for Israel. It's interesting, I didn't even notice that he. The holy sites. He's concerned about the holy sites being in Jewish hands, not in Muslim hands. So go ahead. This is one of his motivations.

[Alex Jones]

Like, yeah, but like couldn't we maybe find a happy medium between that and genociding all the people in the surrounding areas? But. So this is. This was Charlie Kirk, unprompted, texted me about the Douglas Murray debate. Now just like kind of keeping in mind and I want fully disclaimer, Charlie Kirk is really nice guy. You could chalk a lot of this up to him being nice. Charlie Kirk wrote to me Sunday, April 13th at 8:01pm Listen to you on Rogan. You did well. Despite me being more on the pro Israel side, very little. I disagree with what you said. One point when Douglas was going on about you using arguments from authority. It's a ridiculous claim. You were using original source quotes to prove their motives, all capital and motives, not their analysis of geopolitics Etc. Two totally different things. You were right on that point, 100%. Keep up the good work. Hope to cross paths at some point soon. And I think that's not completely insignificant. Like I think that does at least demonstrate that this wasn't Ben Shapiro. Ben Shapiro was not sending me this text message, unfortunately. Let's just say here's the other one that I thought was. I just had a post about like, you know, how wrong political violence is and how anyone who thinks you're helping the poor Palestinians by murdering some embassy workers, you're not. This is just a really interesting tweet. I haven't read this till right now. I didn't click on it, but he sent me it in our text thread. This is Charlie Kirk, by the way, talking about this stuff. Pretty relevant to today. He said I must push back against one thing. All over X I see claims that some people have, quote, blood on their hands simply because they've made Tweets attacking Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israel government, or the war in Gaza. No. And then he goes off on a whole thing. You can look up the tweet if you want to say it, but he's, he's making the point that it was horrible what happened to them, but it's also messed up to like blame anybody who was criticizing Israel for now being responsible for them doing this. So he sent me that tweet and I responded back as he sent me. He sent me this at noon on May 22, and I responded back at 1201. I said, I was literally reading it as you text did. And then I said, thank you. I really appreciate that. We need cooler heads to prevail here. It's a very dangerous situation. And he said, he said totally. And then he said we should do a podcast in person and have a fun, light hearted, contrasting conversation on Israel. I bet we actually agree on most of it now.

[Dave Smith]

What's interesting is that I have communications with Daryl Cooper when we were kind of friendly and I really, I'm not going to expose them, but one of them, he tweeted publicly it was about Israel and he, I was trying to get him on my podcast and he wrote to me, we probably disagree less than you think. Which is very similar to what Charlie Kirk said to Dave Smith. And in a private conversation, when I brought up, I think I can say this, he wouldn't care. When I brought up the, the subject of how he used T.E. lawrence in fear and Loathing in New Jerusalem, where he kind of quoted him in a pro Arab way, but left out how he dumped on the Arabs and their, and their mentality, he wrote, he acknowledged the point and he said, yeah, if I had Fear and Loathing to do again, I would do a lot of things differently. So, you know, between people who disagree but want to engage in a friendly relationship with someone they think is formidable on the other side and worth their time, what Charlie Kirk was saying there and how he spoke to Dave Smith is familiar to me because it's the way I would. It's nice. I mean, I like that they had that conversation. I wish that Darryl hadn't taken such a turn to the right as he had. People couldn't understand why it was that I was soft on Martyr made at first, but if they saw our DMs, they would understand. It was. It was a very different conversation. And he was, he was quite more open to a fact based discussion anyway, so that, that's that. I don't know. Megyn Kelly's probably be mad at me. I just, you know, this is not a paralypsis. Is that. What was that the word? I can't remember the word now. Yeah, paralypsis. I'm not saying she's anti Israel. She's clearly not. Even throughout all this, she makes the point of saying, I support Israel. They have to win. Hamas needs to be defeated. And certainly there's no evidence of her being anti Semitic. But what she is doing, whether she realizes it or not, is that she is undermining the firewall that there used to be between certain types of unfounded, ugly, conspiratorial thinking and the rest of. And the. I don't know. How would you put it? The respectable world, the mental respectability. And that's not a bullshit distinction. It's not a bullshit distinction. It's like there are reason. There are editors for the New York Times, and often they get it wrong. But we can't just pretend that Candace Owens and Ian Carroll and Alex Jones and Harrison Smith and Max Blumenthal, who. Max Blumenthal has been right about some things. But, you know, I always say that they're kind of. There's like a chain, and they all. They all know their place in the chain. They'll never turn on each other. Max will be a little bit more careful about his standards, but then he will cite the one below him, who will then cite the one below him, who will then cite Dan Bilzerian, who, you know, who says the Jews are the worst thing, the worst threat to planet Earth, and they will never say a bad word to each other. And this is a fucking dangerous world. And I don't understand. I think that Megyn Kelly's career has reached escape velocity and that even if she were to raise the hackles, get the ire of her, of a large portion of her audience by blasting Candace Owens, she would still be a huge star and. And she would gain some new audience. So I would ask. I know she'll ever even. This is like a pissing in the wind. She'll never hear it or know about it, I don't think. But if people are taking Candace out of context, she should demonstrate that, like put up or. Or say, you know what? I looked into it, and actually I was wrong. They're not taking her out of context. She really is engaging in this lowest form of activity, of intellectual activity and dangerous form. So that's. That's all I have to say about it. I had some other stuff about Charlie Kirk, but I. I don't. I don't want to do it. What was your general feeling about him?

[Ross Barkin]

About Kirk? Yeah, I mean, I didn't know him at all.

[Dave Smith]

No. As a, as a. Were you aware of him as a public figure?

[Ross Barkin]

I was fairly aware. I was definitely very much aware of him. To me, he's a MAGA functionary. So I mean, I like that he had this sort of embrace of debate culture. It seemed a little phony to me in that you're going around, you know, you debate college kids who don't really know much better. You know, I know he had debates with non college kids who were a little more formidable, but a lot of it was trolling 19 year olds and then posting YouTube clips about it, but.

[Dave Smith]

You know, with very provocative thumbnails.

[Ross Barkin]

I mean, he's an impressive organizer. Left has no equivalent. I'll say that. He built up a machine, raised hundreds of millions of dollars. He was obviously very talented. I was not impressed by his intellect. That's just how I feel. And I think he got a very.

[Dave Smith]

High score in math.

[Ross Barkin]

I said, I'm sure he did. And I think he ultimately, whatever principles he held were secondary to Donald Trump. That his whole reason for operating and existing became serving maga. And so anyone who is so subservient to one person, I take less seriously. So I'm very sad he was killed. I think killing is awful. I think gun violence is awful. No one should die like that. But I am not impressed by a person who spent at least their final years being a party functionary. That's what he was. As in this were a Soviet dictatorship, he'd be a Soviet apparatchik. Yes, apparatchik. So there wasn't much evidence of public independent thought. And if he ever had independent thoughts like an Epstein or the Iran strike, he quickly fell in line. That's what he did. So I don't view him in the vein of like a William F. I.

[Dave Smith]

Don'T think he fell in line at Epstein, by the way, but he wasn't.

[Ross Barkin]

Going to criticize Donald Trump.

[Dave Smith]

Are you an Epstein believer?

[Ross Barkin]

I don't care very much, I'll be honest. I mean, I think. I'm sure Epstein. Epstein is a very bad person. And obviously his tentacles extended to Democrats and Republicans alike.

[Dan Natterman]

I need to use the word tentacles, given its association historically with anti Semitism.

[Ross Barkin]

Oh, okay. Oh, you're making like a tentacle porn.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, I thought you were saying.

[Dan Natterman]

No, no, I'm saying tentacles is like the word tentacle. It's like you reacted to, to Zelensky being characterized as rattling.

[Ross Barkin]

I don't know.

[Dan Natterman]

There's certain, certain words.

[Dave Smith]

Candace Owens called a Jew that commented a rodent the other day on. I mean, she doesn't give a.

[Ross Barkin]

No. Yeah, but no, I mean, I mean, I, I'm sure you know, it's a bipartisan scandal involves elite Democrats and Republicans.

[Dave Smith]

I actually don't, I don't actually, I'm with, I'm in the Michael Tracy school.

[Ross Barkin]

Yeah, I've enjoyed Tracy's writing on it as well. I'll say that.

[Dave Smith]

I think there's almost nothing there except.

[Ross Barkin]

That he's probably not a smoking.

[Dave Smith]

He's. He's a horrible criminal.

[Ross Barkin]

He's a terrible children. Yes.

[Dave Smith]

Or not.

[Ross Barkin]

You know, the predator. He's a predator. But the smoking gun. I don't think, really.

[Dave Smith]

I don't think Bill Clinton was involved in any kind of sexual crimes with Jeffrey.

[Ross Barkin]

He hung out. I think they all hung out with a popular seeming rich person. They like to go to the parties and go to the, and look the other way. I'm sure they all knew, but they looked the other way.

[Dan Natterman]

Well, I don't even know if. I mean, looking the other way when somebody's having sex with children. I don't know about.

[Dave Smith]

No, no. But Trump, Trump was on record making some comment about he likes him young. I mean, listen, it's, it's weird because it wasn't that long ago in my lifetime when, when grown men would have a 17 year old girl on their arm. You know, it was, it was done so.

[Dan Natterman]

But we're not talking 17 in the case of Jeffrey Epstein.

[Dave Smith]

No, we're talking. Well, a lot of them were talking about 16, 15, you know, where'd you draw the line?

[Ross Barkin]

I don't know.

[Dave Smith]

But, but yes, I think, I think they did look the other way and he did clearly belonged in jail and he clearly played it down to a lesser charge. So he probably did what he did. Actually, it was worse than what he did time for. But that's all clearly true to me. But the notion of a vast conspiracy.

[Dan Natterman]

And that he committed suicide. You believe he committed suicide, as do I.

[Dave Smith]

Yes, I believe he committed suicide, yeah. All right.

[Dan Natterman]

Well, he certainly had every reason to commit suicide.

[Dave Smith]

I have to figure out how to do these podcasts because obviously there were too many videos, although every one of them is important. You know, like I talk.

[Dan Natterman]

Well, then why do you think there's too many if they were all important?

[Dave Smith]

Because I feel maybe, maybe you could shorten the burden. That's right. It's hard. I don't want to shorten them because I don't want to be accused of taking them out of context. I think part of what is convincing about them and inculpating is that they go on and on and on. It's like, oh, he clearly didn't take 10 or 15 seconds. Like this is a long rant that she's doing about the Jews. And here's another one. And by the way, there's more. It's like anybody can get into it. There's more and more and more. And this guy, Harrison Smith, she goes.

[Dan Natterman]

On and on about Leo Frank, you know.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, well that's just her way of, you know, talking about the Jews but pretending she's now talking about the Jews. Let's end with the last one. Harrison Smith. It's a short one. This is the guy, number three. This is the, this is Max Blumenthal's source.

[Harrison Smith]

I've had two people reach out to me that are in positions to know, that are very highly connected.

[Dave Smith]

From two.

[Harrison Smith]

Different branches of government at the highest levels to tell me it was Israel. Now, you know, again, I don't know if that's true. I'm just saying I've had two people reach out to me on their own, say, hey, I can't, I can't really get into it.

[Dave Smith]

But.

[Harrison Smith]

Yeah, they think it was Israel.

[Ross Barkin]

Everybody here thinks it was Israel.

[Dave Smith]

So this, this is a low kind of interesting. Yeah, this, this guy is a load bearing.

[Dan Natterman]

This dude.

[Dave Smith]

That's the guy who Max Blumenthal base is reporting on, who Candace Owens and bases reporting on. You know, they're, they're all as I my go to phrase, been load bearing. Now like load bearing in a sense that if you knock that one out like a Jenga tower, everything, everything falls. He's one of that. And these people just, they all say, I spoke to people, I have sources.

[Megyn Kelly]

Since when is that okay?

[Dave Smith]

And by the way, even, even the people on the Megyn Kelly show, I think Megan herself, like a lot of people are calling me anti Semitic.

[Megyn Kelly]

Who?

[Dave Smith]

We live in the friggin age of text messages and emails. Post it while you're protecting the people that you're angry at. Right? I don't know.

[Dan Natterman]

All right, Ross Barkin, Glass Houses Century. What's the name of the book? Century Glass Century.

[Dave Smith]

I like Ross Bargain so much that for his sake, I hope Mom Donnie.

[Ross Barkin]

Wins because I know he's going to win. That's it.

[Dave Smith]

If it's one on one, mom, diamond versus Cuomo, what are the odds?

[Ross Barkin]

I think Toronto's the one, but. Oh, I'd give it like 70. 30 to Saran 101.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah.

[Ross Barkin]

65. 35.

[Dave Smith]

At that point happen, because again, there'll be a debate. And. And.

[Ross Barkin]

Yeah, but Cuomo's weak. That's the problem.

[Dave Smith]

He was terrible in those debates.

[Ross Barkin]

He's weak. He's not. He's not a good politician.

[Dave Smith]

Arrogant.

[Ross Barkin]

Arrogant. Lazy.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah.

[Ross Barkin]

Entitled.

[Dave Smith]

Entitled. Yeah. All right. Thank God he's not Jewish. All right, good night, everybody.

[Ross Barkin]

All right.

[Dave Smith]

Was that a bore for you?

[Ross Barkin]

No, I learned a lot. You gotta do a read. Seen many all those clips.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, you should.