Podcast Summary: The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table

Episode: Tariffs, Ukraine and Trump with Nick Gillespie
Date: April 5, 2025

Overview

This episode features a lively conversation between Comedy Cellar owner Noam Dworman, producer Periel Aschenbrand, and their guest Nick Gillespie, editor at large at Reason Magazine and longtime libertarian commentator. The trio weaves through local New York politics, housing policy, the economic and social implications of tariffs, entitlement reform, and the evolving landscape of the American right, with plenty of humor and sharp banter. The conversation deftly explores serious economic matters—often through the lens of comedic New York grit—before diving into foreign affairs, particularly Ukraine, and the ideological rifts both in libertarianism and American politics at large.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Humor & Libertarian Satire in America

• Opening Banter: Nick immediately leans into the humor, likening being a recurring guest to "herpes" — “I like being recurring. It's... I feel like herpes.” (00:23, Nick Gillespie)
• Reflects on the contemporary difficulty of satire: “Truth is stranger than satire.” (00:49, Nick Gillespie)
• Reference to Philip Roth's famous essay on reality outpacing satire, highlighting how absurd current events feel compared to decades past.

2. New York City Politics & Anthony Weiner’s Candidacy

• Anthony Weiner’s Candidacy: Nick shares his frank impressions after interacting with Weiner.
  • "I think Weiner is pretty sociopathic, which is not necessarily bad in a politician..." (02:41, Nick Gillespie)
  • Yet, he acknowledges Weiner’s willingness to argue and deviate from some progressive dogmas.
• On Voter Attitudes: Noam points out that even with Weiner’s scandals, local voters seem open to forgiveness due to his visibility, saying:
  • “Name recognition in a local election is very, very important.” (10:03, Noam Dworman)
• Criminal Justice & Rehabilitation: Gillespie pushes against assumptions that sex offenders categorically reoffend, citing Thomas Szasz, and says Weiner appears to be handling his recovery seriously (07:39).
• Local Politics Pragmatism: The group agrees that in NYC, ideology should play less a role in local elections and that practical business-oriented solutions are most valuable.

3. Housing Policy: Austin vs. NYC & the Ezra Klein/YIMBY Movement

• Success in Austin: Nick recounts how Austin addressed post-pandemic rent spikes by allowing development:
  • "If more, if there's more demand for housing and then you build more housing, the prices go down...like no other city, seriously, like no other big city has thought of that." (11:57, Nick Gillespie)
• Progressive Embrace of Supply-Side Solutions: He celebrates the left’s new focus on supply rather than demand, with a nod to Ezra Klein:
  • "It's great to see people who identify as progressive saying... what we're talking about here constantly are problems in supply rather than demand." (13:12, Nick Gillespie)
• Skepticism of Top-Down Approaches: “Their solutions tend to be too top down for me and technocratic.” (14:10, Nick Gillespie)
• Noam and Nick reminisce about the "Wild West" era of American development and champion more deregulated, entrepreneurial urbanism.

4. Tariffs and the US Economy: Critique from a Libertarian Lens

• Tariffs as Hidden Taxes:
  • “They are a tax...that is levied on the importer...then ends up being passed on to the consumer. So it raises our prices.” (20:57, Nick Gillespie)
  • "There's really no social or cultural or scientific redeeming value..." (20:36, Nick Gillespie)
• On Who Pays for Tariffs: Discussion acknowledges that while portions may be absorbed by exporters or importers, the brunt nearly always falls on American consumers (21:32).
• Protectionism Breeds Inefficiency:
  • Points to the US auto industry as a classic cautionary tale: inefficient due to lack of foreign competition (23:09).
• Tariffs Don't Fix the Budget:
  • Nick casts doubt on the claim that tariffs meaningfully reduce the deficit: "You could Tariff everything. And you're not going to get enough money to make up for the costs of those other tax cuts." (27:03)
• Entitlement Spending and Budget Bloat:
  • Nick argues for urgent entitlement reform: “Social Security is, you know, it's not just that it picks the pocket of younger workers to pay for older workers. It is a bad kind of guaranteed retirement plan.” (31:06, Nick Gillespie)
  • On government spending growth: "We're spending $7.2 trillion instead of 4.4 trillion or $2 trillion or whatever." (25:46, Nick Gillespie)

5. Technology, Market Forces, and Resilience

• Gillespie expresses cautious optimism that technological advances could help soften tough economic landings by lowering costs across sectors (33:02).
• "I don't believe in apocalypse...when you look at this century, we've had so many terrible things thrown at us...and it's like we're doing pretty well, actually, in a lot of ways." (33:53, Nick Gillespie)

6. Trump, Populism & the American Right

• Trump as New York Archetype: Nick draws a line from Anthony Weiner's abrasive style to Donald Trump's, both being "gain of function New Yorkers." (35:29)
  • “Trump, his first term bullet points would have been pretty good...brokered the Abraham Accords, he oversaw a growing economy, the Trump court got rid of racial preferences, he supercharged the COVID vaccine production...” (36:36, Nick Gillespie)
• On Presidential Legacies:
  • "What are the three bullet points you want people to remember? And it's not going to be I deported a bunch of, you know, guys who hung out at Home Depot parking lots." (61:59, Nick Gillespie)
• Policy Critique: Noam and Nick both worry about the quality of procedural fairness, especially around issues like immigration enforcement and free speech. "Procedure is everything." (37:44, Noam Dworman)
• Trump and Economic Policy: Nick warns that if tariffs or MAGA policy tank the economy, Trump will reverse course—his primary driver is needing popularity and perceived success (61:41).

7. Ukraine, Libertarianism, and the Populist/Authoritarian Rift

• Trump, Biden & Ukraine: Noam speculates a Trump-led foreign policy may be preferable—at least more coherent—than the aimless drift under Biden or a hypothetical "Harris float."
• Nick on Libertarian Split:
  • Explains the movement’s divide between his Reason/Cosmopolitan wing and the Smith/Mises Institute/Populist/Anarcho-Capitalist wing:
    • "Part of it is also it's dispositional. And a lot of libertarians are...cosmopolitan...some people like living in kind of sloppy, heterodox places... and some people don’t..." (49:00, Nick Gillespie)
  • On Ukraine and libertarian values: “When you look at the optics of the picture, where there is, where there's a David and a Goliath, you would think that most libertarians are always going to be on the side of the David... that matters.” (51:47, Nick Gillespie)
• Anti-Zelensky Sentiment: Noam and Nick puzzle over the conspiratorial and, at times, antisemitic fixation on Zelensky by the populist right:
  • "Why in the world do they hate Zelensky like this? What is it's psychotic." (46:34, Noam Dworman)
  • Nick: “They hate him. I don't know.” (47:02, Nick Gillespie)
• Double Standards in 'Provocation': Noam sharply points out the contradiction in those justifying Russian aggression due to “provocation,” but denying the same logic in other conflicts like Israel in 1967 (54:29).

8. Libertarianism, Trust in Government, & the Strongman Temptation

• Gillespie warns that distrust in government, though long a libertarian critique, increasingly fuels demands for strongman rule instead of limited government:
  • "That doesn't lead to less government. It actually leads predictably...to people wanting more, like a strong man or strong governments that can, you know, stop the chaos." (57:42, Nick Gillespie)
• He urges his ideological allies to model effective, limited government—not anarchic chaos—to build public trust and limit government scope organically.

9. Free Speech and University Protests

• Gillespie and Dworman agree that even disgraceful political figures should not encroach on free speech, and government response to campus or protest activity must rely on standards of fairness and due process:
  • "I don't think writing editorials in a student newspaper is an incitement to violence." (64:19, Nick Gillespie)
  • “Be a professional, Write a document, present it to the American people… Have it ready to present to the people at the time you're deporting them. Sure. It's not like. Yeah, but they don't do that. Yeah, they put the cart before the horse. Throw them out.” (64:25, Noam Dworman)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Satire and Reality:
  “You just can't keep up with this kind of crazy reality. And it's like, Philip Roth. You had no idea what America was going to look like 60 years later.” (00:49, Nick Gillespie)

• On Housing Markets:
  "If there's more demand for housing and then you build more housing, the prices go down." (11:57, Nick Gillespie)

• On Entitlement Reform:
  “It's wrong for people like us who have the means and the money and the ability to pay for our retirements and to pay for our healthcare to make somebody's grandkids...pay for that.” (29:50, Nick Gillespie)

• On Presidential Legacies:
  “What are the three bullet points you want people to remember?...It's not going to be I deported a bunch of, you know, guys who hung out at Home Depot parking lots.” (61:59, Nick Gillespie)

• On Libertarian Cosmopolitanism:
  “A lot of libertarians are, I hate to use the word cosmopolitan…some people like living in kind of sloppy, heterodox places where all sorts of weird shit and weird people happen.” (49:00, Nick Gillespie)

• On Distrust in Government Feeding Authoritarianism:
  "We've won that idea, that argument of the idea that you shouldn't trust the government...But that doesn't lead to less government. It actually leads...to people wanting more, like a strong man." (57:42, Nick Gillespie)

• On NYC as the Ideal:
  “If he makes America more like New York, I think that would be a good thing. Because what's great about New York is everybody disagrees. And...that’s my vision of America.” (64:55, Nick Gillespie)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:00–01:52 — Banter on recurrence, satire, and Philip Roth
• 02:31–10:13 — NYC politics, Anthony Weiner's candidacy, voter attitudes on scandal
• 11:13–16:00 — Housing, Austin vs. NYC, progressive shifts on supply
• 20:16–32:23 — Tariffs, budget deficits, entitlement reform, economic policy
• 33:02–35:25 — Technological optimism, economic resilience
• 35:29–41:51 — Trump’s first term, policy legacy, administrative deficiencies
• 41:51–45:28 — Ukraine, shifting prospects, JD Vance/MAGA movement
• 48:46–51:47 — Libertarian civil war: Gillespie vs. Smith/Mises wing
• 53:32–56:14 — Foreign policy double standards, libertarianism & Ukraine/Israel
• 57:42–62:22 — Trust, strongmen, and the government’s evolving role
• 63:16–64:55 — Free speech, universities, NYC’s model for America

Final Thoughts

This episode is a vibrant and unfiltered exploration of local and global politics, economics, and ideology through a uniquely New York comedic lens. Gillespie brings in libertarian philosophy without shying from criticizing all sides, while Noam grounds the conversation in pragmatic business and civic concerns. Candid, funny, and at times provocatively insightful, this is a must-listen for anyone interested in the strange intersection of comedy, policy, and current events.