Courtney Harrell (4:29)

You know how you always want to know about everyone else's money? You do, right? Like you'll see someone buying something you want or taking some amazing vacation and you think, how can they afford that? Or you meet your friend's new girlfriend and she has some very impressive job and you think, how much money does she make? I think when it comes to money, even if you don't want to admit it, we're All a little nosy, but I don't know. I actually think that's good. I think we should be talking about money more and all the ways, big and small, that it impacts our lives. On this show, we are actually going to do that. We are going to go somewhere that we almost never get to go deep into the heart of someone else's finances. Here's how this is going to work. Each week, I'm going to introduce you to a new person from somewhere across the country, and they are going to tell tell us everything about their finances, how much they make, how much they want to make, what they worry about, or if they don't worry at all. And then for one week, we'll follow them through their daily routine. Every day, they'll record an audio diary with all the nitty gritty details of how they're spending their money. I mean, the coffees, the groceries, the rent that's due, the car accident that suddenly upends everything. And after that, we'll talk about what the week brought up for them, what it's made them feel. Because whatever you're buying or not buying or saving or spending, at the end of the day, money is always about more than your balance. I'm Courtney Harrell, and this is what we spend. How much school debt do you have?

Kelly (6:16)

I have 150,000. I had more. I had 300,000 after my master's. I had a great uncle pass away who was an artist. And my parents chose with their share of that that they would help pay off all my private loans. And so that was a crazy night. I remember pressing submit on $150,000 payment and just being like, holy shit. And they were like, yay. Doesn't that feel so much better? And I was kind of like, it feels like 50% better. And it still feels like I have still $150,000 of debt.

Courtney Harrell (7:01)

This is Kelly.

Kelly (7:02)

I turned 32 in one week, and I live in Salt Lake City.

Courtney Harrell (7:06)

Kelly is One of the 42.8 million Americans who has student loan debt. And also, like a lot of her generation, she wants to buy a home and have a baby. And she's trying to figure out if it's possible to make all that work. Kelly married her husband about a year ago, and eight months ago, the two of them moved from Tennessee to Salt Lake City, Utah. Ben is an engineer for a software company. Kelly's a director of client experience at a medical spa, and she's also an online mental wellness coach.

Kelly (7:35)

I used to be a therapist, and for lots of Reasons I'm not right now, but I will always have therapy or coaching in my life, and I will probably go back to that full time at some point.

Courtney Harrell (7:49)

Kelly is paid hourly, but she makes about 50k a year, and Ben makes about 78k. That's before taxes and health insurance together. That puts them just under the average income for married couple families in Salt Lake City. How would you describe your relationship with money consuming?

Kelly (8:12)

Oh, I would describe it as all consuming. Yeah. The thing that keeps, like, coming to mind is, you know when someone has, like, an addiction or a struggle and they call it like the monkey on their back. Yeah, because you just can't get away from it. It's just clinging, and it's present with you all the time. It feels like that. And I try really hard to, like, be in control, like, maintain my control.

Courtney Harrell (8:35)

Yeah.

Kelly (8:35)

But it's kind of this tug of war.

Courtney Harrell (8:40)

What do you do on a weekly basis to manage your expenses?

Kelly (8:44)

On a Sunday, I will sit down and look at the budget. And I made a spreadsheet.

Courtney Harrell (8:52)

Okay. Yeah. So walk me through your spreadsheet. So I would love to hear what all of your regular expenses are and, like, what you kind of typically pay in each category.

Kelly (9:02)

So rent and utilities. $2,800. That's pretty expensive for rent. Anytime I tell someone that, they're like, that's more than my mortgage. I'm like, yeah, I. I know. Please don't tell me what your mortgage is. I don't want to know.

Courtney Harrell (9:18)

Two gym memberships, 108. Car insurance, 254.

Kelly (9:22)

Gas, 125.

Courtney Harrell (9:24)

Do you have a car payment?

Kelly (9:26)

No, we just buy used cars.

Courtney Harrell (9:28)

Nice.

Kelly (9:29)

Ben's car, basically, the. The roof flies off, but, you know, just don't take it on the highway, you know, we don't have a car payment.

Courtney Harrell (9:37)

Who needs a roof?

Kelly (9:38)

Yeah, who needs that? It's a convertible.

Courtney Harrell (9:41)

Phone payment, 75. Pet insurance, 76. And physical therapy for 250. It helps with Kelly's chronic back pain and osteoarthritis.

Kelly (9:50)

And then groceries. This one sucks the most right now, and I really feel like everyone will understand. I put 600amonth for our groceries. And I mean, that include includes, like, toiletries and stuff, too.

Courtney Harrell (10:02)

They have a Costco membership, but they pay that yearly fee with the cash.

Kelly (10:06)

Back they get from their credit card medications and supplements. Like, Ben works out, so he has, like, this huge bag of protein powder that he gets from Costco. So Ben's is mostly workout supplements and just one medication, and mine is, I think, like, four Medications and like, a probiotic and some multivitamins. Total for that is 650 streaming platforms. No, we mooch off of our families.

Courtney Harrell (10:37)

Some of the subscriptions are on them, though. Dropbox for 12, SoundCloud for 6, Spotify for 10.

Kelly (10:43)

Hair, my hair. I put $40 next to my hair, and that's so I can spend that $40 and get my hair washed by somebody else one time every month. And it is like the gift to me to have somebody else wash my hair every once in a while. And isn't that shitty that, like, even now, just reading my own budget, that it really is just my business? I still feel the need to justify, like, I just need to treat myself sometimes and have my hair washed.

Courtney Harrell (11:13)

What does that make your expenses altogether.

Kelly (11:15)

Your regular expenses, around 4,800amonth. But then you get to debt.

Courtney Harrell (11:21)

How much debt do you have?

Kelly (11:23)

A lot. If you are. Including my student loans, we have $202,728 in debt.

Courtney Harrell (11:34)

Where did you go to school?

Kelly (11:35)

I went to Belmont University in Nashville, Tennessee.

Courtney Harrell (11:39)

Why did you go to school?

Kelly (11:42)

I thought I was supposed to because I was told that, you know, this is. This is the next step. And I think this is part of, like, the. The dream or the lie that was sold to my generation was like, if you don't go to college, you're going to end up working at McDonald's, you know, and, like, you're going to be a deadbeat and you're going to have to live with your parents and you're probably going to use marijuana even, and, like, you're going to be a bad person essentially, if you don't go to college.

Courtney Harrell (12:12)

Kelly's degree cost about 40 grand a year. And after undergrad, Kelly went on to grad school at the same university. She has a master's in mental health counseling. But as Kelly sees it now, the math doesn't make much sense. I want to ask you something about that, and I mean, no judgment with this. How did you think you were going to pay off that amount of tuition? Or were you at the time, like, I know I can't pay this off. Like, how did you think about it then?

Kelly (12:41)

Oh, no, it's a good question. I didn't. I did not think about it. I had no clue what I was doing. It wasn't like, I wonder how I'm going to pay this off when the, you know, average annual salary for a therapist is 40 to 60 thousand dollars a year. I was not thinking about that. I had no idea what I was doing. And I didn't really have anyone around me who was explaining what I was doing. Like, your prefrontal cortex is not developed when you are making those decisions.

Courtney Harrell (13:20)

Yeah.

Kelly (13:24)

Ultimately, I don't regret anything because I am who I am and I'm happy, but I'm financially trapped.

Courtney Harrell (13:35)

So that's Kelly. And this week, instead of just tracking it in her spreadsheet, she's going to tell us about every dollar she spends and every feeling that comes with it. How are you feeling about tracking your finances for a week?

Kelly (13:49)

I'm feeling nervous because maybe I will just realize through tracking every expense that I'm actually just a dumb, dumb. And I'm very irresponsible and this is all my fault. But I'm feeling curious. I'm just curious to see what comes of it.

Courtney Harrell (14:09)

Yeah, me too. I will check in with you on the other side of your week. Okay.

Brian (14:19)

Like butter cutting through a knife. Listening to that, I recognize myself in it. I recognize my emotions in it. I recognize my thoughts and fears around money. I recognize this specific verbiage monkey on my back. All consuming. Listen, it doesn't take a genius to figure out. Nor do you have to listen to 658,000 episodes of the Commercial Break to understand being an independent creator and being an entrepreneur doesn't always mean multimillionaire or financial comfort. I'm sure that that clip resonated with a lot of people. And as tough as some of that is to hear, there's a certain level of comfort that comes with knowing somebody else is out there tossing a turning at night thinking about the same thing. Plus, let's be honest, Courtney has that, like, calm, reassuring voice. I feel like everything's going to be okay for Kelly. And now I feel like everything's going to be okay for me, too. What We Spend is available now wherever you're listening to this podcast or on the free Odyssey app, you can go download it from the App Store. Go take a listen to a full episode of what We Spend. This is one of those shows where we will leave entertained, but we may also leave feeling better and smarter. What We Spend by Courtney Harrell, available now. We'll see you on the flip side. Bye.