Co-host (possibly the main host) (1:59)

Fair enough.

Michael Ian Black (2:00)

And the money in my pocket, any money that I bring to Las Vegas, that is my budget. Once that's gone, I have to figure out how to get more money without my wife finding out.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (2:12)

Hey, listen, that is. Yes, I have a separate PayPal account is what I do. And that PayPal account, I just squirrel away a little bit here and there, and that's my fun money. So when I go to Vegas, I tell my wife, I say I'm gonna spend $500 and then I have an extra 500 in the PayPal account. It's all gone. Before I even leave the airport, I was telling a story about how last time I went to Las Vegas for a conference, there were two guys on the airplane and they were literally gambling on their cell phone, like, you know, online and watching the Football game live on tv. And then they didn't even make it out of the airport. They were at the slot machines as we were all leaving. Yeah, they were ready to go. They were just like. They couldn't. They couldn't handle it. Are you that enthusiastic about poker, or is this just something. Once in a blue moon, you show up and you play some hands.

Michael Ian Black (3:00)

Somewhere in between.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (3:03)

Fair enough.

Michael Ian Black (3:03)

I definitely, like, if there was poker at the airport, I promise you, I would still leave the airport.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (3:12)

But you would probably play a hand.

Michael Ian Black (3:16)

I might play 12 hours, but no more than that.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (3:18)

Yeah.

Chrissy (3:18)

Yeah.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (3:21)

Have you ever won a lot of money?

Michael Ian Black (3:23)

I'm a regular poker player. I play anywhere from once a week to every couple of weeks when I'm home in school.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (3:28)

Okay, so you must. So you must know what you're doing. That's the thing that scares me about the poker tables is, though, I know how to play poker. Yeah, but I play. I've played poker, like, incredibly drunk with my friends, right? And if I. If I pony up and get serious with the big boys, I feel like I'm instantaneous. They're gonna know who I am. Right? They're gonna. I'm a mark. And I know it's all about the.

Michael Ian Black (3:48)

Cards, but I would suggest to you, let's. Let's go back to your original statement, which was, I know how to play poker.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (3:55)

Yes.

Michael Ian Black (3:55)

I would suggest to you, you do not.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (3:57)

Fair enough. There you go. I think you're right about that. I don't think I know how to play poker. I think I'm scared of rules.

Michael Ian Black (4:03)

I think you know the rules.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (4:04)

I do.

Michael Ian Black (4:05)

Yeah.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (4:05)

But I don't know how to play because anytime I've played with any people who actually know what the fuck they're doing, I get chewed up. I get chewed alive because I don't have a good poker face. I tend not to put my cards face down. You know, I put them face up. That's a big boner move.

Michael Ian Black (4:20)

Wouldn't you rather have an attractive face than a good poker face?

Co-host (possibly the main host) (4:24)

Yes. While the boys were playing poker, I was stealing their girlfriends. And that's. And it worked. So in that way, I do have a poker face. Yes. There you go. So, Michael, you. We've known you for a long time. Known you through the screen for a long time. You started in our hearts and in our heads. I think the. Is the state. You're, like, first, like, breakthrough. Hey, this is it. Or is it wet hot American? Some. I can't remember which one came first.

Michael Ian Black (4:49)

The state was a sketch Troupe of which I am still a member. We started in college, my freshman year of college. So that. That is the first thing that I ever.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (4:59)

And that was on mtv. And that was. That was of my time. I loved it. I loved it. I thought it was very brilliant. And how do you get a show?

Michael Ian Black (5:10)

Did.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (5:11)

Did MTV come to you? Or did some producer come to you? Or do you pitch them? Hey, listen, this is because you're a freshman in college. Like, then you get a dream job.

Michael Ian Black (5:18)

By the time we did the TV show, we had all graduated college. Okay, the group started in college, and then right after college, we had the TV show. How did it happen? It's. It's sort of a long story, but it basically comes down to MTV needed. They were just getting into original programming, and so what they needed was a bunch of teenagers to work practically for free.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (5:45)

I think that's still their business model. Mike Lee and Black says, I do it well. I mean, you get a chance to be on mtv. I think every improv troupe, you know, ever probably has this vision that this is what we want to have. I'm gonna be on Saturday Night Live on weekday.

Michael Ian Black (5:59)

Well, that's so funny, because that was exactly our vision. We're in college. We're spending every available moment rehearsing, like, sketches that we're going to perform maybe twice in front of a bunch of sophomores. But we're so devoted to it, and we're thinking to ourselves, well, we're going to make a career out of this. How stupid do you have to be to think to yourself, my college sketch group is going to go on to fame and fortune? I mean, how stupid is that? But that's what we did. I mean, minus the fame and the fortune.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (6:34)

But it turned out okay for you, I think. Was it? I got to imagine. Okay, so, like, you literally, like, pouring your heart into this. And I can see, because I was a kid once in a band, you.

Michael Ian Black (6:46)

Know, thinking this is the same exact thing.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (6:49)

Yeah, I mean, I'm the next Eddie Vedder. You know, I'm practicing these songs like they're, you know, Led Zeppelin's second album, right? And everyone's going to know these words and lala. But the truth is, is that like almost every other band ever, I played to 16 people one time in a club where the sound guy didn't was asleeping or high on cocaine. And I'm never again going to play these songs ever. No one cares. But you guys kind of realized the dream. You realize the dream on MTV where you little. Did you Know you'd be part of the downfall of music television as they went into all original programming and no more, no more videos. But it was when they made that.

Michael Ian Black (7:27)

Turn the Mike Lawler of this story.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (7:30)

Mike Lawler, Yeah. Yeah. I got to imagine that moment for you is like, wow, holy shit, we just closed a deal with mtv. We're going to be on mtv.

Michael Ian Black (7:40)

Yeah, it was.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (7:43)

Here's the thing, it's a double edged sword.

Michael Ian Black (7:47)

No, I mean, yes, we were all incredibly excited. At the same time we were also so incredibly arrogant. We were like, well, of course they're giving us our due 21, 22. We're just idiots. We were just assholes. So we had the worst attitude about the whole thing. We were excited and we loved the opportunity, but we were also such entitled dickheads about it.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (8:16)

Did you guys run around town just thumbing your nose at the other improv comedy groups?

Michael Ian Black (8:22)

Oh, yeah.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (8:23)

Did you get a brand new Chevy and just ride around town? Well, MTV paid you nothing for this.

Michael Ian Black (8:29)

By the way, when I say they wanted young people to work for free, literally it wasn't literal. But I'll give you, I'll tell you exactly how much we were making. So we were the writers on the show, we were the performers on the show, we directed the show.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (8:42)

Holy shit.

Michael Ian Black (8:43)

We, we, we, we edited the show to a degree, individuals in the group and obviously we created the show and we. I was taking home $400 a week.

Chrissy (8:56)

Wow.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (8:56)

What? You had a, you had a television show on MTV and you were taking home 400 a week and you had four different credits on that show. Wow. They weren't joking when they said work for free. Holy. Here I thought those teen moms were making a bunch of money and I don't think they're making anything. That's why they're selling baby clothes on the side.

Chrissy (9:16)

Right?

Co-host (possibly the main host) (9:17)

That's.

Michael Ian Black (9:17)

The 400 was my take home.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (9:20)

Oh, yeah, yeah. That's crazy. But then he, but then you, you, the, you specifically go on to kind of, you know, do. This is like a springboard for you to then come into our heads and our hearts. Wet hot American summer. I am sure that everybody and their mother. This is like, because it's such a great, great movie. So many great lines, so many great moments in the movie. It's just one of those quotable love. And everything about it is, is great. Did you guys realize that magic. Do you have like magic on set? When do you realize there's something magical going on here? We're making a really great, funny movie.

Michael Ian Black (10:00)

Yes. And no, here's. Here's the way I experienced it. I knew. So Michael Showalter and David Wayne, who were in the State. The sketch group. Yeah, they. They wrote the film and David directed it. And then all of us, you know, so many of us were in it, along with so many other cool people. And I remember. I have a very specific memory of being on set and David and Michael expressing the opinion that they had finally figured out how to make something mainstream America was going to love. And I remember thinking, you're out of your goddamn. This thing is. Is gonna. This thing is not gonna do well in the theaters.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (10:46)

Yeah.

Michael Ian Black (10:46)

But. But I did believe that it would find a life after its theatrical release because I did think people of a certain ilk would find it and really like it. And that has proven to be the case. Although it ended up being, I think, way more popular and enduring than any of us would have imagined.

Chrissy (11:07)

Yeah.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (11:07)

Yeah. It's kind of one of those movies that if you watched it the first time and you loved it, like, I'm saying, cult favorite. Right. But it's like a little cult niche.

Chrissy (11:17)

Yeah. You're gonna keep watching.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (11:19)

But then everybody else I knew also felt the same way. So I was like, well, it's not that culty. Like, everybody else I know loves this movie too.

Michael Ian Black (11:25)

You knew some awesome people, bro.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (11:27)

I did well. Of a girl that I was dating introduced me to the movie, and instantly we. I was like, this is. I love this girl. And then I love this movie. And now I can't wait for the next one to come out and do. Do you get recognized on the street? Do people. I'm sure they do. They must come up to you and say, oh, my God, what's the one. What's the one line that you wish or the one thing that you've said in any of your career that people come up to you and they say it back to you and you're like, I wish you would never say that again. I mean, I'm sure that there's a.

Michael Ian Black (11:59)

You're wildly overestimating my fame.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (12:03)

I would say hi to you if I saw you.

Michael Ian Black (12:05)

Okay. That's one.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (12:06)

Yeah.

Michael Ian Black (12:07)

Okay.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (12:07)

Maybe I wouldn't quote anything to you, but I'm not a. I don't.

Michael Ian Black (12:10)

Thank God I don't have, like, some famous catchphrase, because that would be terrible.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (12:15)

What you talking about, Willis?

Michael Ian Black (12:16)

Yeah, I don't have that. And I'm grateful. I don't have that. So generally, when people come up, they say things like, I loved you on Kids in the hole, right? Oh, my God.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (12:29)

This is Michael. Okay, let's talk. Okay, we're just gonna be serious. I know we're just meeting each other, but let's pretend like we've known each other for years, and we're friends, so don't take offense to this. So Chrissy and I are having a conversation with a friend about two weeks ago, and we say, they're asking us about TCB's endless day. And we say, yeah, we're interviewing this person and that person and Michael Ian Black. To which they respond, I love Michael Ian Black. He was great in Kids in the hall, one of my favorite shows. And I said, you are 100% wrong that Michael Ian Black was ever in the Kids in the Hall. And they. They demanded. They commanded the room. They said, no, no, no, no. He's my favorite character on Kids in the Hall. And I Googled it, and I found at least two instances where Google itself has wrongly connected you to Kids in the Hall.

Michael Ian Black (13:16)

It is the show I am the most recognized for. No joke.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (13:24)

That's crazy.

Michael Ian Black (13:25)

Fully loved you on Kids in the Hall. Sometimes I get loved you on Mad tv. Sometimes I get loved you on Saturday Night Live, but most of the time it's Kids in the hall, and never is it the State, which is the actual show.

Chrissy (13:38)

Yeah.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (13:40)

Because they were both on around the same time at the same time.

Michael Ian Black (13:43)

And here's the thing. My vibe. My sort of soft Canadian vibe.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (13:48)

Fair enough.

Michael Ian Black (13:49)

Very well. With the Kids in the Hall.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (13:51)

Fair enough.

Michael Ian Black (13:52)

So I understand why people might think that, but. And what's weird is nobody else in the State gets mistaken for being in Kids in the Hall. I'm the only.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (14:02)

That is so crazy. That is so crazy. Then we have the same interaction happened with someone we were talking to, and they were. They were pretty. They were pretty sure that you aren't Kids in the Hall.

Michael Ian Black (14:13)

And I said, no, it's gotten to the point where I believe I was in Kids in the hall come up to me and they say they love me. Kids in the Hall. I say, thank you so much.

Chrissy (14:21)

Yeah, I would do.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (14:23)

Thank you so much. Call Netflix and ask for that, you know, Kids in the hall reunion. Check. Cash. Was it Netflix that they were on? I think that Kids in the House. Yeah. Amazon.

Michael Ian Black (14:33)

By the way, in the years since, we've all become very good friends with. Well, I would say very good friends, but friendly with the Kids in the Hall. Lovely guys.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (14:39)

Like, why wouldn't. Then why wouldn't there be, like, a Kids in the Hall State? Man, show like a mix up. Oh, really?

Michael Ian Black (14:44)

We've talked about doing a Kids in the hall, like a, like a Monster Monsters of Sketch tour. Yeah.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (14:50)

Oh my God, that would be great.

Michael Ian Black (14:51)

It would be great.

Chrissy (14:52)

That would be amazing.

Michael Ian Black (14:53)

But it's hard. There's five of them and 11 of us. So you can tell that pie slices.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (14:59)

Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't. The math isn't mathing. Like just getting hotel rooms with 22 people having to split it equally is probably very difficult. It's very hard to make money doing live. And so, you know, when five guys in a band can't make it work and they're selling 5,000 seat arenas, I can only imagine when it's 22 people trying to. Trying to split and schedules. Yeah, schedules. Wives, children, all that stuff. Do you, do you miss, like, do you. Do you still do on occasion, live stuff? Do you go out there and you're with the state still?

Michael Ian Black (15:28)

So I'm sure you guys toured last, last year, maybe a year and a half ago. We toured when showbiz was on strike because we've been talking about touring forever. And so when showbiz was on strike, we sort of said, well, now's the perfect time. So we booked a tour. We did, I don't know, maybe a dozen cities all over the country had a great time. It was, it was nice reconnecting with everybody and working with everybody in the same room at the same time again. So that was, that was awesome.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (15:55)

Yeah. So you guys played 12 cities and did you like. Is that's where you started? That's kind of the, the juice. That's where the adrenaline is. That's where the magic happens. That's where God lives. Whatever you want to say was that. Did you love that? Did you want to go do that again?

Michael Ian Black (16:11)

I loved it because for the reasons you said and because as I indicated earlier, you know, when we, when we were in our 20s, we were dickheads and that included being dickheads to each other. We weren't like, you know, we weren't always fighting or whatever, but there were, there was always just things and egos and someone bruised.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (16:37)

Yeah, someone. Someone bulbing. Someone bruised. I get it.

Michael Ian Black (16:40)

Exactly.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (16:41)

It's a family for me.

Michael Ian Black (16:42)

And I think for a lot of the, A lot of us who did the tour, we felt like this is a chance to kind of right some wrongs, you know, to sort of reconnect as adults and behave like, be emotionally mature and make. And just slightly sweeten the taste of that experience in our mouths. Not that it was ever bad, but that it just. It felt like a resolution. That's what was important to me about it.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (17:10)

Yeah, you was a cathartic question.

Michael Ian Black (17:15)

Are you allowed to talk on this podcast?

Co-host (possibly the main host) (17:16)

Yes, I am.

Chrissy (17:20)

I'm the emotional support.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (17:21)

She's the emotional support.

Michael Ian Black (17:24)

I just want to understand if I had.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (17:27)

If we had a dollar for every time someone said this.

Chrissy (17:30)

I don't want to interrupt either one.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (17:32)

Do you have a question, Chrissy? If we had a dollar for every time someone said that in the comments section on the reviews. Let me give you a little background on the commercial break, Brian started a podcast and invited his friend to come on just so he could. So I had someone to list.

Michael Ian Black (17:51)

In.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (17:52)

Five years later, in 800 hours and 800,000 episodes, here we are. And I'm still.

Chrissy (17:57)

You guys are doing a great job.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (17:58)

Thank you very much. Thank you.

Chrissy (17:59)

I'm enjoying this very much.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (18:01)

Michael Ian Black is probably the first guest who's pointed this out, but if you have a question to ask, hit me.

Michael Ian Black (18:07)

Is it weird? I think it's weird.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (18:09)

Is it weird to you?

Michael Ian Black (18:10)

You've got a great co host who.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (18:12)

Oh, my God, you don't even know to do nothing. You don't even know. Without her, this show doesn't fly. It doesn't go anywhere. And here's the crazy part. While I do 90 of the yapping on this show because I just can't stop talking, Chrissy gets 90% of the accolades. People love Chrissy so much more than they love me, and I accept that as my fate.

Michael Ian Black (18:34)

Right. And by the way, I feel exactly the same about Chrissy.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (18:38)

Thank you. It's wonderful.

Chrissy (18:40)

Less is more.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (18:41)

Wow. You have a friend in Michael Ian Black. Well, now you have to come up with a question.

Chrissy (18:45)

Now I'm very like, you know who I am.

Michael Ian Black (18:47)

How's she going to come up with a question?

Co-host (possibly the main host) (18:52)

She thought you were in Kids in the hall, too. I was. You were.

Chrissy (18:57)

You were. At this point, you were.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (19:00)

How did you get to Savannah, Georgia?

Chrissy (19:01)

Yeah, we're in Atlanta.

Michael Ian Black (19:02)

Yeah. Oh, you are?

Co-host (possibly the main host) (19:04)

Yeah.

Michael Ian Black (19:06)

The wife and I had been living in the wilds of Connecticut for the previous 20 something years. And during the pandemic, we just got it into our heads, like so many people did, that life is short. Let's have adventures. And so we were sort of casting around for the next adventure and turned out to be Savannah, Georgia. So we've been there for about four years, and other than the, like, stultifying heat and hordes of cockroaches, it's been a Great experience.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (19:37)

Oh, God, those palmetto bugs. Cockroaches is what they should be called. They sometimes said palmetto bugs, but I give them a way too friendly name. Yeah, me too.

Michael Ian Black (19:46)

I'm not going to honor. I'm going to dead name palmetto bugs.

Chrissy (19:50)

Yes. I hate those things. Ooh, I can't think about it.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (19:53)

You know, we went to my daughter and I had the daddy daughter day, and we went to go see the animal. Like, the guy, like a zoologist brought animals. And one of the animals he brought was the hissing cockroach, the world's largest cockroach. And he said, oh, you can pet them. And I said, oh, I have such a fear of those things. I hate them. But he also explained that of all the 4,500 different types of cockroaches, this is the cleanest one. They don't carry the kind of germs that you normally associate with a cockroach. They're very clean. They live in the jungle. I said, you know, not for me still. He said, it's the ones that you have in your house that are the dirtiest and nastiest and the ones that carry the disease. And I thought, well, I got a bunch of them in my house, so I can only imagine in Savannah, down on the coast, that that's probably. Oh, what's that? I don't know. That was like.

Michael Ian Black (20:32)

That was me.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (20:34)

Okay.

Chrissy (20:35)

But it was your sound bowl, Brian.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (20:37)

Do you guys know my sound bowl? You have taken this. This job with a Daily Beast. A couple of years ago, I remember reading an article and I thought, that's well written and funny, but you never look at the art, you know, you never look at who the author is. And then I look at the author, I go, it's Michael Ian Black. The same guy that I know from. From television. How did. How did you get that gig? I think you're really good. I think your writing is really good. I think it's poignant. I think it's needed. I think you say the right things.

Chrissy (21:05)

I love that.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (21:06)

At the right time.

Chrissy (21:06)

Organization.

Michael Ian Black (21:07)

Yeah, that's very kind of you. Well, I had. I had previously written several books.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (21:13)

Yeah, you're an author, too, Both for.

Michael Ian Black (21:15)

Adults and for the wee ones. And I have been very vocal on social media about my feelings about this and that. And then I was unemployed, as I so often am. Approached me and said, hey, do you want to do something for the election? And I said, well, why not? And so I started writing a weekly thing for them, which has been kind of a nice Outlet and just, it makes my brain work in a slightly different way because I also publish almost every day on my own substack. But writing for like an actual organization has, I think, forced me to think a little bit more cogently about my writing and my writing process. So it's, it's, it's, it's, it's been a nice structure. Structure, yeah.

Chrissy (22:02)

I'm a little muscle. Different muscle.

Michael Ian Black (22:05)

Say that again?

Chrissy (22:06)

A different muscle.

Michael Ian Black (22:07)

Yeah, exactly. And thank you for segueing to the analogy which I'm about to use, which is that writing for me is like going to the gym for some people. Like, I just have to do it every day. Like I just have to get my reps in every day or I don't feel like I did something you have.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (22:24)

Spoken about, I believe you've written about kind of the scourge of what a lot of people refer to as toxic masculinity. This brand of. I think of it like this, I think of it like people are taking a boy or a man's natural inclination to feel like they are warriors, protectors, people who can inflict violence to solve problems. Because that's kind of the, the way that genetically we're, you know, it's just the way we are. It's the difference between us and the female form. And they've taken that and they've weaponized it in a way against other groups, people, you know, who are less than, who don't have as much, who are already picked on, they've weaponized it and they've pointed to other people and said, this is the reason why you can't be that. This is the reason. So instead of being defenders and protectors, we're now offenders. And I don't know, we pick on the. It's like almost like pick on the weak because that's what we're bred to do. And this kind of repetitious bullshit that comes out of so many different corners of the Internet and now mainstream media, quite frankly. Do you have. You have children? But I think they're both. Are they both. Do you have two children? Are they both girls?

Michael Ian Black (23:48)

No, I have a son.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (23:50)

Okay, how do you, how do you teach your son the kind of the rules of the road?

Michael Ian Black (23:56)

What you do is you write a best selling book called A Better Man. A mostly serious letter to my son.

Chrissy (24:03)

Publisher.

Michael Ian Black (24:05)

I forgot who the publisher is already. Oh, what a work workman. Working workman. Workman publishing. So I wrote a book. I wrote a whole book about it. And. I try not to use the Term toxic masculinity.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (24:21)

Yeah, it's a weird one. Yeah.

Michael Ian Black (24:23)

Because I feel like. And it's not because of the word toxic exactly. It's because we don't have a model in our culture. To me, that expresses a kind of healthy masculinity. We don't even. I don't even think most of us could define what masculinity is. It is an amorphous trait of characteristics that people sort of foist on men and say, well, if you're a man, you do X, or if you're a man, you do Y. And they will say things like, be a man, as if you are not already. So I don't feel like we have a sense of healthy masculinity against which to label masculinity, which is toxic. And so masculinity as a whole, when we think of those. Those traits that you just listed, we. We've now been conditioned to think of that as toxic. And I don't think it is. And it's clear you don't think it is. No, to me, masculinity. I'll discuss masculinity the way I think. Women have been talking about femininity for the last 60 or 70 years. The women's rights movement, which began, you know, you could argue 200 years ago, but I'm just talking modern women's rights movement, was predicated on the idea that women, these delicate flowers, who to this point had never lifted themselves from bed longer than cooking their man breakfast, that these people somehow also had the ability to go out in the workforce and to run for office if they want and to fulfill whatever dreams they had. And so in this burgeoning movement of women's rights, what happened is the notion of what femininity was expanded gradually. Now women were no longer just caretakers and helpmates and raisers of children. They were lawyers and truck drivers and firefighters, and they were strong and they were brave and they were Wonder Woman. And we saw that women can be all of those things, and now we don't even think twice about it. But that's. But that. That effort took arguably 200 years, but let's say 60 years. Men have not invested that same. Those same time and resources into figuring out who we are. Men are protectors and defenders, but guess what? We're also caregivers. We're also hairdressers. We're also, you know, we also want to look pretty sometimes, and sometimes we want to be macho as fuck. Like, we just need to expand what it means to be a man in the same way that women expanded what it means to be a woman. We're all, all of these things. We are all full spectrum human beings. And that's what I tell my kid. And that's what the message of the book was. And so when I think about masculinity or toxic masculinity, what I think about is people like, you know, the normal cast of characters. Somebody like Andrew Tate, who is just a vile rapist.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (27:27)

Yes.

Michael Ian Black (27:28)

But is being esteemed as this paradigm of masculinity because he's unabashedly a rapist and probably a racist.

Chrissy (27:37)

Yeah, probably.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (27:39)

I think that's a brilliant way of describing where we stand in our culture. And I think that the messages that are coming from all different corners of the universe and especially online and in podcasting and new media and YouTube and wherever Twitch and all this other stuff puts our young men in a position where they are more isolated, more lonely, and have less ability to communicate how they're feeling those feelings and thoughts because that is looked upon as weak or you're not, you know, you're not getting it, you're not part of this, you're not alpha, whatever you say. And that is becoming a disease in and of itself. That loneliness is a disease that is wreaking havoc on our culture. And we are becoming those young men especially are becoming more isolated. And I think they are more dangerous when they are more isolated. Because anybody who is, it's like an animal. You put them in a cage and you lock them away and you say, no communication, no ability to express, no ability to roam free and do your things and find your thing, then they're going to become dangerous. They're going to become angry and dangerous. And so I think this is a disease that we have got to. Men have got to start communicating about and reaching out to the ones that are below us and the ones that are above us and saying, you know, you can go to the gym, you can work out and you can beat the bag and you can have a cool car and you can get the hot chicks and all that stuff is cool. Right? But you can also defend the weak. You can also step in when you right or wrong. You can also, you know, be open minded that not everybody and everything has to look exactly the same way as you. You can do those things. And you need to have people around you that love you and you have to have the ability to express that your fear and your pain and all that other stuff. And I think that that's your way of putting it is brilliant. We have to expand the definition in either direction of what masculinity is, or we're going to find ourselves in a real. I mean, a society full of lonely men. You know, that's troublesome. That's troublesome. I think Professor Galloway. Prof. G. If you know who I'm talking about, talks about this a lot, and I think he's spot on.

Michael Ian Black (29:55)

Yeah. Because it's important to look at the whys and wherefores of how we arrived here, because there was a time not that long ago when men's women. When men's roles and women's roles were more clearly delineated and that worked to the great advantage of men, that was entirely to men's benefit. And so what happened is, as the women's rights movement gained traction and people recognized that, oh, yeah, women actually are human beings, women started entering the workforce in greater and greater numbers. And that. And I mean, let's go even further back. They got the vote. Okay. Then they started entering the workforce in greater and greater numbers.

Chrissy (30:45)

Then they got a checking account.

Michael Ian Black (30:48)

Oh, I didn't know that was legal.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (30:49)

You can do that.

Chrissy (30:50)

Yeah.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (30:51)

Geez.

Michael Ian Black (30:51)

I'm gonna have to look into that. I'm actually not sure that's legal. Yeah.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (30:54)

Her husband is progressive. He might be breaking laws.

Michael Ian Black (30:57)

I don't. I don't like that. And so women started gaining autonomy and independence. And then concurrent with that, technology started changing. So we have moved out of the industrial revolution when men were sort of manning factories and sort of doing this hard, dirty work. And we've moved into this sort of information age where the jobs that are now online and that people are really. That are making money and are prestigious tend to be collaborative jobs, creative jobs. They tend to be jobs that require teamwork. These are jobs that would traditionally have lived in a more feminine sphere and feminine space. And women are excelling in them. Women are excelling in school, and boys are falling further and further behind. And there are all kinds of complicated sociological reasons for why this is happening, but we have to look at sort of the root of it. And if we want to have a society that's thriving, we actually need to implement these changes. For men, we need to make it. We need to give them a permission structure to say, hey, I'm really struggling here. We need to have them not be afraid to walk into the gas station and say, hey, I'm lost. Can you help me? We need all of that. For very practical reasons, the economy now runs on those kinds of jobs. Runs on Cooperation, creativity, collaboration. If you want to have just a functioning society, men need to step up and figure out how to be their full selves. It just has to happen. And the problem is that has been cast among reactionary voices as feminizing the culture. And what do you. The worst thing you could say to a man or a young man who was caught in this kind of moment of indecision and not knowing who he is is to say, oh, yeah, you're. You're. You're. You're being a girl, you know, bro. And that's. That's going to shut him off entirely. And so now you have these legions of young, angry white men listening to Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan and all these other, like, dude bros who are telling them no. All you got to do is take Ivermectin and work out three times a day, and chicks are going to love you. You know, it's like, it's this bizarre caveman mentality. But what it does is it offers a promise to men, and it's an easy promise to men. Do these things. Eat red meat, work out. Listen, Andrew Tate, you know, get a cool haircut and all your problems will be solved.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (33:54)

Yes.

Michael Ian Black (33:55)

And it's. It's just. It's superficial and it's dangerous.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (33:58)

I totally agree with you. It's superficial is dangerous. Instead of expanding the way that we think about masculinity, they are narrowing the definition.

Michael Ian Black (34:06)

They're constricting it. Because it makes it easy. It makes it so easy.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (34:10)

Absolutely, Absolutely. It's like, you know, it's like, you know, no knock on it on any particular religion, but it's like promising nine. Nine virgins. Right? And it's just on the other side, and the grass is greener. And all you got to do is do these three things to get there and listen to this and do that, and it's just. It's dangerous. And, you know, if you want to listen to Rogan, okay, listen to Rogan. But don't take that as. As chapter and verse. There are lots of other voices out there, and there's lots of other ways to express yourself than just eating red meat and working out. Do those things.

Michael Ian Black (34:41)

I like Rogan. Like, there, There. There's plenty of episodes of Rogan.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (34:44)

I agree. You know, I agree. I don't like Andrew Tate, but I like Rogan. Right? And at moments, I like Rogan. There are some things that I. That he said where I'm like, whoa, bro. And, you know, listen. But it takes all kinds. That's.

Michael Ian Black (34:57)

Yes, that's actually my point is take all kinds. It takes all kinds of men. And by the way, the kind of man you are today might be different than the kind of man you are tomorrow or in an hour from now. And not only is that okay, it's great. Like, we are all multifaceted human beings. We don't have to react to stimulus in one way because. Because traditionally, men are really only allowed to express two things. Silence and anger. Everything gets sort of funneled through those.

Chrissy (35:31)

That's true.

Michael Ian Black (35:32)

Those lenses to reactions and why we don't have to be that way. Like, you know, like, look at me. I'm hilarious.

Chrissy (35:43)

Yes, you are.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (35:44)

You are. And by the way, hilarious. And you've kept your baby good looks this entire. All the time.

Chrissy (35:52)

Yeah, I agree.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (35:53)

You look almost no different than you did when you were.

Chrissy (35:56)

Maybe it's the Vegas.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (35:57)

What is it?

Michael Ian Black (35:59)

I have had so much fun.

Chrissy (36:00)

Did you? Wow.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (36:01)

What is your favorite? Is it the lip filler? Is it the Brazilian butt lift? What is the. What is the secret?

Michael Ian Black (36:07)

Here's what I do. I fly down to Brazil and I say, just give me the smorgasbord. Four weeks later, I wake up looking gorgeous.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (36:16)

Yeah. Hey, listen, a lot of people do that sometimes. They wake up in the hospital and go, we had to take your Brazilian butt lift out.

Michael Ian Black (36:25)

If you look at pictures of me from, you know, 30 years ago, I look much younger.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (36:30)

Well, you think you look much younger, but I think the way we look at ourselves is different. I realize that you are older, but I'm saying that you have that face. You have that kind of face.

Chrissy (36:39)

It's the Vegas sun. You know, that morning sun that's giving you that glow.

Michael Ian Black (36:43)

He always says how good dry desert air is for this.

Chrissy (36:46)

Exactly. You know what? Well, it might be the Savannah humidity.

Michael Ian Black (36:52)

Let me tell you something. My wife, as much as she hates the heat, she loves that plumping. Savannah.

Chrissy (36:59)

Me, too.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (37:01)

Do you guys. Do you live near the water? Don't tell me where you live. Do you live near the water in Savannah? I mean, everybody lives near the water in Savannah, but Savannah's on a river.

Michael Ian Black (37:11)

Yes, river. And then 20 minutes away, you can be at the ocean. Yeah.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (37:17)

Yeah. Tybee's beautiful. I love Tybee.

Chrissy (37:20)

I've been to Savannah many times, but Tybee.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (37:22)

Oh, yeah, I love Savannah. Yeah. Savannah's just a hop, skip, and a jump away. I don't remember some of the trips to Savannah, but I'm sure they were fun. I'm sure they were fun. It was a big place to go when I was a, you know, teenager in my early 20s.

Chrissy (37:34)

Everyone had to go to Havana. The whole home tours and the ghost stuff and.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (37:38)

Yeah, yeah, it's fun for sure. You're on a brilliant CNN program called have I Got News for your? And I'm going to. Let's just touch on this. The. As we're recording this today, not as it's being published, but as we're recording this today, the Republicans have now gutted or have passed a vote to advance the bill that will look to gut health care for a good chunk of the people that really need it. Let's put it that way. Agree or disagree on a lot of different points of minutiae, attitudes, moods and ways to go about it. Gutting health care, taking away certain parts of public education, you know, decimating parts of the government that I think people will quickly figure out they need and use on a daily basis. These are things that feel to me like easy ways for some people in the Republican Party to be heroes, but they aren't there. And I know you're very outspoken about this, both in your column and then when we join the call today, what can Democrats do? What can we do? What can Democrats do to kind of stop this onslaught of. I, I don't know. I, this onslaught of.

Michael Ian Black (38:58)

You can say onslaught of. You can say yes, tsunami of. If you.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (39:02)

Tsunami of. It's just insanity is really what it is every day. And I know that most Republicans will agree they did not vote to have their, or someone they love health care cut.

Michael Ian Black (39:14)

Oh, no, no, no, no. You, you, you didn't, you didn't look at the vote tally. They, that, that's exactly what they did. They literally vote. Voted to have their loved one's health care cut.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (39:23)

Yeah. No, I, in fact, but, you know, I'm sure some of them are sitting around, right. You see all these videos, you know, like I saw the other day, a farmer, a dairy farmer was sitting there in the middle of her dairy farm where the cows were un milked, saying, I am going bankrupt. I will, I will last another couple of weeks because every single one of my employees has not showed up in two weeks. They got scared, they ran away. They went back home because they were, they were either undocumented workers or workers who were in fear that they were going to get deported.

Michael Ian Black (39:58)

They may have been going through the immigration process perfectly legally and they could still get rounded up and thrown out.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (40:04)

Absolutely.

Michael Ian Black (40:07)

What can Democrats do?

Co-host (possibly the main host) (40:08)

Yeah. Or what can anybody do? What can we do?

Michael Ian Black (40:11)

I have an answer for you.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (40:12)

Okay.

Michael Ian Black (40:13)

Not a goddamn Thing.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (40:16)

I know, I know we're truly in a corner where, listen, we don't get too political on this show, but I will say this, no matter who you voted for, if you cannot see right now that democracy, the very foundation upon which this country has existed for almost 250 years, is crumbling in front of our eyes, and every way that there is a guardrail is being demolished, then you are not, your eyes are not open. You're not paying attention to what's going on. And if we get to vote in the next election, if we get to vote in the next election, we need to put guardrails on this. I agree with some things that Republicans do, I agree with some things Democrats do, but this is different. This is a opportunity to stop a dictatorship from happening. And if we get to vote, I think people should really take a long, hard look at their friends and their neighbors and all the things that are going on inside and outside of government and wonder if this is what they want for themselves and their children.

Michael Ian Black (41:22)

Just to play devil's advocate for a second, because I mostly agree with you, which is to play devil's advocate, everything you said is true, but I want you to consider on the other side how many billions of dollars Trump is personally making.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (41:35)

So, yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true.

Chrissy (41:37)

It's a balance.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (41:38)

You know, it's a balance. I do want Trump to make more billions of dollars. So in that, listen, if Trump doesn't get at least one more 747 before the end of his term, then I am not happy as a, as a voter. That's all I got to say. And, you know, I think we all should agree that our president should be taking, you know, Qatari airplanes free of charge. That's just. Well, where in the Constitution does it say that's wrong?

Michael Ian Black (42:04)

You say free of charge, but he's, he's got to do the maintenance.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (42:07)

That's true. He does have to do the maintenance. And that could cost the taxpayers a lot of different. A lot of money.

Chrissy (42:13)

Yeah.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (42:13)

And I'm sure he'll find some way to make the taxpayers pay for it after he's out of office, too. If he's ever out of office. That's the question, right? That's the question. He's already up for his, his third term. Who's your favorite guest that you've had on, on the show? I know you're gonna say, come on.

Michael Ian Black (42:30)

Brian.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (42:32)

Is it Mike Lawler?

Michael Ian Black (42:35)

Do I want to say my favorite guest? You're. Here's the thing. Mike Lawler From New York's 17th congressional district came on have I Got News for you. Pleasant fella sat right next to me, did a funny Trump impersonation, and then lied to my face.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (42:52)

Unbelievable.

Michael Ian Black (42:53)

He said, I'm not going to vote for a single cut in benefits to Medicare or Medicaid. And so I said, so, Mike, when the bill comes up that says there's going to be cuts to Medicare and Medicaid, you will vote. And then I pointed at him, and he didn't say anything. And I said, and you will vote. And he didn't say anything. And I said, mike, you just said, you know you're not going to vote it. Cuts to benefits. Cuts to benefits. And I said, okay. And he gave me the impression, because he said it to my face, that he would vote no for any bill that cuts benefits to Medicare and Medicaid. And then that next week, he voted to advance the bill that would cut $800 billion from Medicaid. So I made a little video and I posted it online saying, mike Lawler, you lied to me. Fuck you. And Mike Lawler got very mad at me for that because I had called him a liar. Well, yes, Mike Lawler turned around and voted to cut billions from Medicare and Medicaid. So now I'm aggravated, not only because he lied to me, but because he fully activated my Jewish guilt.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (44:12)

That I.

Michael Ian Black (44:12)

Had somehow misrepresented him or that I was being mean to him. And so all I can say, and from my heart, and I mean this with as much generosity as I can muster. Fuck Mike Lawler.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (44:28)

Fuck Mike Lawler. I think that's a good point on this interview. Michael Ian Black, you are welcome back anytime.

Michael Ian Black (44:36)

Thanks.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (44:37)

I hope that you win much money. Yeah. So nice to meet you. I've always wanted to meet somebody from Kids in the hall, and now I can say that I have.

Michael Ian Black (44:44)

I'm crushing your head. He gave me that one for free. You know what I mean?

Co-host (possibly the main host) (44:48)

Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Michael Ian Black (44:50)

Because you guys. You guys are the best.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (44:54)

I always thought of the state as, like, the edgier version of kids and all, if I'm just being honest.

Michael Ian Black (44:58)

We thought of ourselves.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (44:59)

Yeah. And Michael Ian Black writes for the Daily Beast. He's on have I Got News for you on cnn.

Chrissy (45:08)

And Substack.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (45:09)

And Substack. And Michael Ian Black, thank you for joining us on tcb's Endless Day.

Michael Ian Black (45:16)

My pleasure. I hope you get. Oh, and he has.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (45:19)

Yeah, thank you. And he has many books. I will. I will link to this in the show notes on how you can buy those books. Thank Mike Lean Black. We appreciate you being here.

Chrissy (45:27)

Good luck at the tables.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (45:28)

Good luck at the tables.

Michael Ian Black (45:29)

Bye, guys.

Chrissy (45:30)

Bye.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (45:30)

Thank you. Wow. He had our number.

Chrissy (45:38)

He sure did.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (45:39)

He had our number.

Chrissy (45:40)

Let me see.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (45:43)

Get Chrissy out of the cage. Let her. Let her go, Brian. Let her go. That was amazing. Hey, listen, I think we handled it well, but that was touch and go there for a second. Michael Ian Black called me out and as he should have, but he also has to understand we're on episode number four of 12, so.

Chrissy (46:02)

Yeah, it's a lot.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (46:03)

Chrissy's just taking a rest. Her brain is off right now. It's hard to talk when Brian's talking. It really is. It is.

Chrissy (46:12)

It's a delicate dance.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (46:13)

It is a delicate dance. And I think you do really well. I think you do really well. But sometimes the guest episodes do get away from us a little bit. Brian all of a sudden is just having a phone conversation with one other person.

Chrissy (46:25)

You're always so very excited.

Michael Ian Black (46:27)

I do.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (46:27)

I get very excited. Hey, listen, if it makes you feel any better, when I'm in a room full of Venezuelans, which is like six months a year, I am the one who talks the least. Yeah, I bet I know how you feel. I never get a word in ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. Michael Ian Black. What a gentleman and a scholar. And a good poker player, apparently. Here's to winning. Michael, I hope you're out in Vegas.

Michael Ian Black (46:51)

Yeah.

Chrissy (46:53)

Michael.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (46:53)

Yes. Michael Ian Black. All the things the Daily Beast have. I got news for you on CNN with our other good friend Roy Jones. And yeah, all these all. He's got books, he's got movies, he's got television shows. He is not from Kids in the Hall.

Chrissy (47:12)

He's a Renaissance man.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (47:13)

He's a Renaissance man. A Renaissance man. That's not from Kids in the Hall. I just repeat that. That bears repeat because you Google it and it says he's in Kids in the Hall. Even Google has it wrong.

Chrissy (47:24)

Yes.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (47:24)

Anyway, okay. All right, episode number four. Now in the book tcb's Endless Days, sponsored by our good friends at Five Hour Energy, go to five hourenergy for special flavors and occasions. They even have a hot sauce they make out of five Hour Energy, believe it or not. Thank you to five Hour Energy for bringing you the endless day with limited commercial interruptions. You'll notice only one commercial inside. So There you go. 2 1, 2, 4, 3, 3, 3. TCB. Call now. Call now to talk to us at the commercial break on instagram. To see if we go live later on this afternoon@tcbpodcast.com for all the audio, all the video and your free TCB sticker. Okay, Chrissy, that one's in the books, but I love you.

Chrissy (48:05)

I love you.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (48:06)

Best to you.

Michael Ian Black (48:07)

Best to you.

Co-host (possibly the main host) (48:08)

Best to you out there in the podcast universe. Until the top of the hour, Chrissy and I will say, we do say, and we must say goodbye, Sam.