406 - HoF - Fireworks Phobia Over the Phone

Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: The Cone of Shame Veterinary Podcast
Episode: 406 – HoF – Fireworks Phobia Over the Phone
Host: Dr. Andy Roark
Guest: Dr. Lisa Radosta, Board-Certified Veterinary Behaviorist
Date: July 2, 2026

This Hall of Fame episode revisits a highly practical and timely discussion between Dr. Andy Roark and Dr. Lisa Radosta about managing fireworks phobia in pets—especially when concerned owners call in panic just before the 4th of July. The conversation focuses on what veterinary teams should say and do when time is short, offering real-world communication strategies, drug recommendations, and insights into behavior management.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Responding to Last-Minute Fireworks Anxiety Calls

Timestamps: 03:01–05:45

• Scenario: Client calls on July 3rd about their 3-year-old, female, spayed German Shepherd, which is suddenly panicked by neighborhood fireworks.
• Dr. Radosta’s Stepwise Approach:
  • Reassure the Owner: Let them know this phobia is common to reduce stress. (04:07)
  • Set Expectations for Next Year: Advise early planning in the future for better results.
  • Medication Guidance: Explain needing higher doses and possible sedation due to late timing. “I'm going to go a little higher on the dose and your dog might be sleepy. It's going to be okay. This medication is very safe.” – Dr. Lisa Radosta (04:23)
  • Communicate Drug Reliability: Clearly state that these medications can behave unpredictably.
  • Provide Resources: Direct owners to her website (flvetbehavior.com) for detailed handouts.

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The Reality of “Unreliable” Medications

Timestamps: 05:45–06:53

• Unreliable Effects: Both the host and Dr. Radosta agree on the necessity of telling pet owners that medications like trazodone can be “unreliable.”
• Client Analogy: Dr. Radosta uses vivid, relatable analogies:
  • “Do you have that unreliable friend…? That is Trazodone. Sometimes Trazodone works really well at 3 mg/kg. Sometimes I give the dog 18 mg/kg and he's cruising around chasing a ball.” – Dr. Lisa Radosta (06:11)
• Communication Tip: Use analogies for better client understanding, even over strict medical language.

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Why Firework Phobia May Suddenly Appear

Timestamps: 07:26–08:18

• Typical Onset Age: Dogs usually present with storm and noise phobia around 3–6 years old.
• Reasons: Owners often miss early, subtle signs, and phobia can take years to fully develop with only infrequent triggers (e.g., July 4th, New Year's Eve).
• Quote: “It takes a while sometimes for a phobia to develop… it takes a couple years for that full-blown phobia to develop.” – Dr. Lisa Radosta (07:58)

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Does Spay/Neuter Status Affect Anxiety?

Timestamps: 08:18–09:14

• Controversial Topic: Some evidence suggests spaying/neutering may accelerate progression from mild to severe anxiety or fear disorders.
• Guidance: If the dog were intact, Dr. Radosta would discuss whether and when to spay/neuter, with handouts and references also available on her website.

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Nutritional Supplements & CBD: Should You Use Them for Firework Phobia?

Timestamps: 09:14–12:00

• Short-Term Efficacy: Dr. Radosta does not recommend any supplement (including CBD) for acute, next-day anxiety relief—none are reliably effective on short notice.
  • “CBD, fairy dust in a bottle, whatever. I don't have a reliable supplement that will do what I need it to do tomorrow [for] the 4th of July.” – Dr. Lisa Radosta (09:40)
• Exam Room Conversations: Happy to discuss these options during appointments for long-term management, but not for same/next-day crises.
• Predictable Events: Supplements like Zylkene, Soloquin, or melatonin can be part of advance planning—melatonin is the only supplement acting quickly enough for same-day calming.
• Professional Stance: “I need something that works. I can't be messing around with a maybe. So I do not recommend any of those.” – Dr. Lisa Radosta (11:35)

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Short-Notice Medication Guidance & Client Communication

Timestamps: 12:00–14:41

• High Stakes: Err on the side of over-sedation rather than ineffectiveness. Warn owners explicitly about possible drowsiness and set expectations for both the current event and future planning.
• Know Your Client: Some owners may need different approaches—a lighter hand, more reassurance, or stricter warnings.
• Drug Selection:
  • Trazodone: Often the safest first-line, especially with limited history—low risk, usually not ataxic, but needs a healthy liver.
  • Clonidine: Another safe option with less sedation.
  • Benzodiazepines: Effective but risk “disinhibition” (aggression, paradoxical excitement) in about 20% of cases, so not first-line for urgent unsupervised use.

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Long-Term Prognosis & Management Mindset

Timestamps: 15:17–16:05

• Chronic Condition: Firework phobia tends to worsen over time—it’s not a temporary blip but a condition to manage long-term.
• Empowering Language: “An ongoing disorder that we will manage. Not that we will struggle with... I have endless resources. I have solutions. I can help you.” – Dr. Lisa Radosta (15:41)
• Comparisons: Management akin to chronic conditions like diabetes or arthritis.

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Resources & Further Learning

Timestamps: 16:06–16:47

• Handouts & Support: Dr. Radosta’s resources are freely available at flvetbehavior.com.
• Contact: Site includes a contact form for professionals or pet owners seeking more information.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “This is really common. Take her stress down.” – Dr. Lisa Radosta (04:07)
• “That is Trazodone. Sometimes Trazodone works really well at 3 mg/kg. Sometimes I give the dog 18 mg/kg and he's cruising around chasing a ball.” – Dr. Lisa Radosta (06:30)
• “I need something that works. I can't be messing around with a maybe.” – Dr. Lisa Radosta (11:35)
• “As a doctor, I'm not going to struggle with it. I have endless resources. I have solutions. I can help you. We're going to manage it. Just like diabetes and just like arthritis.” – Dr. Lisa Radosta (15:41)

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Important Timestamps

• Scenario Setup: 03:01–04:07
• Dr. Radosta’s Stepwise Urgent Response: 04:07–05:45
• Unpredictability of Medications & Communication: 05:45–06:53
• Development and Age of Onset for Noise Phobias: 07:26–08:18
• Supplement/CBD Discussion: 09:14–12:00
• Medication Recommendations: 12:37–14:41
• Long-Term Management Perspective: 15:17–16:05
• Resources and Handouts Location: 16:34–16:47

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Takeaways for Veterinary Professionals

• Calm, clear communication with frantic pet owners is as important as clinical advice.
• Use analogies to help clients understand unpredictability of short-acting anxiolytic meds.
• Prepare owners for both immediate and future management of noise phobias—direct to reliable web resources.
• Rely on safety-first medication choices when little time or history is available (e.g., trazodone, clonidine); treat “supplements” as longer-term tools, not emergency solutions.
• Adopt an empowering, solutions-based approach: these disorders are chronic but manageable.

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Resource:
Dr. Lisa Radosta’s handouts and clinical resources: flvetbehavior.com

Transcript

[Zoetis Representative]

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[Dr. Andy Rourke]

To the Kona Shame Veterinary Podcast, I'm your host, Dr. Andy Rourke. Guys, I am here with a Hall of Fame episode. That's right, one of my episode favorites that I love so much that I wanted to bring back. Dr. Lisa Radosta is amazing and this was a great conversation with her about what we can do with when pet owners call on the phone and they're freaking out because their pet, they just remembered their pet is afraid of fireworks and the 4th of July is right on top of them.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

What do we do with these people

[Dr. Andy Rourke]

and how do we best help them and help their pets? Gang, great episode here.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Let's get looking.

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[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Get into it.

[Podcast Intro Voice]

This is your show. We're glad you're here. We want to help you and your veterinari merry career. Welcome to the cone of Shame with Dr. Andy Rourke.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Welcome, welcome. Dr. Lisa Rasta. Thank you so much for being here.

[Dr. Lisa Radosta]

Thank you for having me.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Oh, my pleasure. First of all, you are a busy doctor and you're making time and I really do appreciate it. I just got the podcast episode you did with Dr. Dave Nichol on his blunt dissection.

[Dr. Andy Rourke]

It is wonderful.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

I encourage people to check it out. First of all, Dave does a wonderful job. So his butt dissection podcast is something that vet people should listen to and you are wonderful on it. So thanks for jumping on and doing this with me. Thanks.

[Simparica Trio Advertiser / Side Effects Informant]

Okay.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

I.

[Dr. Andy Rourke]

Well, actually.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

So let's Give a little bit about your background. You are a board certified veterinary behaviorist and you're in Florida.

[Dr. Lisa Radosta]

I am. I'm in southeast Florida. It's 103 degrees today, so that's pretty cool. And 1,000% humidity. Yeah. And I practiced down here. I've been down here since I got bored in which was 2006.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Where did you get bored? Were you a gator?

[Dr. Lisa Radosta]

I was a gator for vet school but I went to Penn so I'm a pen wee for my, for my residency. Yes.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Well, a fellow Florida alum. I'm glad to have you here. Let's, let's get into this. Time is of the essence because we're going to play. How do you treat that? I have a pet owner on the phone and it is the day before the 4th of July, commonly known as the 3rd of July. And you know what she's calling about? She is calling because she has her 3 year old female spayed German shepherd and some of the neighborhood kids have started popping off a couple of fireworks in the days leading up to the fourth and her poor German shepherd is pasted to the roof. She is calling me. She says this hasn't happened before. What can I do right now the day before the 4th of July? Are there natural supplements that I can give? What about CBD oil? And so that is the phone call that I'm getting right now. And so I've gotten that much information. She's on hold. I'm going to need to go back and I want to make sure that I'm telling her the right things. How do you treat that? Where do you start with. With this case?

[Dr. Lisa Radosta]

So I'm going to pretend like I'm on the phone with one of my primary care vets because I get these calls at the auction on my cell phone or text. Number one, I want you to go back on that phone and explain to her that this is really common for her. Okay? Take her stress down. Number two, you're going to tell her next year. Let's make a mental note to get together about a week in advance because we are so close to the time period where I need to have this medication work. I'm going to tell you a couple of things, Ms. Jones. Number one, I'm going to go a little higher on the dose and your dog might be sleepy. It's going to be okay. This medication is very safe. I'm not maxing your dog out. But I'm concerned that I don't have enough time to really try these medications because Psychotropic medications, they're not very reliable. Right. Sometimes they're very sedated, sometimes not sedated at all. Next, I need you to go to Dr. Adosta's website. No lie. I have a handout [e-mail] I'll put

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

that, I'll put the link down in the show notes as well. So perfect.

[Dr. Lisa Radosta]

So really, I tell my primary care, send them to the website. There's a handout that they can look at that tells them what to do for fireworks. So in that moment, you have given her verbiage that decreases her stress. Super, super important. You've warned her that her dog will be sedated. Super important. Because she's writing a negative Google review on Monday morning because you made her dog sedated. Right. And you've explained to her that these are unreliable meds. Her dog might not be sedated at all. You've prepped her for next year. You've sent her to a website that can give her the information she needs to tackle this.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Dr. Lisa Radosta]

Okay.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

You kind of blew my mind there for a second. The phrase unreliable meds. I know. Feels so counterintuitive. Like I don't want. Do I want to tell her that?

[Dr. Andy Rourke]

And it's.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

When you say it, you're exactly right.

[Dr. Andy Rourke]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Like all of us with clinical experience are going, yeah, they're. They are wildly individualistic in what they do. And they are, they are unreliable. The idea of articulating the pet owner is kind of mind boggling. Can you. Yeah. And unpack. Unpack that for me.

[Dr. Lisa Radosta]

Yeah. So when I talk to my clients, it's different than when I would talk to you of one or one of my residents or one of my primary cares. I use analogies. So I tell her, do you have that unreliable friend that you helped her shop for her wedding dress? But she can't help you and she says she's going to come and then she never shows up. And you're standing there in the dress by your.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Do I ever?

[Dr. Lisa Radosta]

Yeah, do I ever? That is Trazodone. Sometimes Trazodone works really well at 3 migs per kilo. Sometimes I give the dog 18 mgs per kilo and he's cruising around chasing a ball. That's why you have to test them out. So I always use analogies with my clients. And I wouldn't use the wedding dress analogy with you. I might use another analogy, but I wouldn't. A woman.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

No, it's. It's per. I love. I. I was Teasing. I love, I love that. It's so great. What a wonderful analogy. Golly, I so real. I. Let me just say I love analogies. The more analogies we use the pet owners, the better off we are. It just helps them understand the concepts. I think if I had the choice between speaking with medical accuracy versus using an analogy the pet owner is really going to get and understand. I'm going with the analogy because that's what's going to affect them and change behavior. Okay, are you, is it odd to you this dog's three years old and she said she hasn't seen this before.

[Dr. Lisa Radosta]

Now this is predictable, right? Because we know from the studies that have been done that dogs that present with storm and noise phobia, we're just going to group those for now, are generally 3, 5, 6 years old. I suspect that's because two factors. One, people ignore the signs that aren't truly in their mind, important. So they're ignoring trembling, they're ignoring the dog coming to find them, they're ignoring the dog refusing to go out to the bathroom on the night of fireworks. So then it's got to get bad enough that it really affects the pet parents quality of life. Except for those very astute parents. Number two, it takes a while sometimes for a phobia to develop. And fireworks happens twice a year for most of us on New Year's Eve and fourth of July. So it takes a couple of years for that full blown phobia to develop.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Talk to me about the so spaying and neutering. So this is a female spayed German shepherd. Does that play a part in the presentation in this?

[Dr. Lisa Radosta]

Do you think it does? Sort of. Maybe. Probably. I really think so. Okay, here's the thing. If you had five veterinary behaviorists on here, we'd all be duking it out about this issue. Here's the thing. There's enough evidence, there's enough good evidence that spaying and neutering can make the progression of an anxiety or fear disorder move more quickly to that of moderate or severe. Okay, so we want to be thinking about, is this dog affected? If this shepherd that you just described came to me intact, I'd be talking to the owner about that issue. And this is also a handout on my website. It's referenced so that people can start to be thinking about, you know, should I be spaying and neutering? When should I do that? What's the evidence for or against?

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Gotcha. Okay, that. All of that makes sense. She is asking me about nutritional supplements and she Specifically mentioned cbd. Apparently she, you know, it takes the edge off for her is what. At least anecdotally, that's what she's reporting.

[Dr. Andy Rourke]

Where do you go with that?

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Are you leaning towards that in the first time through? Are you open to the idea at all or are you shooting this down where, where's Your head on the 3rd

[Dr. Lisa Radosta]

of July for this phone call? I'm shooting it down for the long term. It's a conversation we can have in the exam room. Right. But for this phone call, I don't have a reliable supplement. Cbd, fairy dust in a bottle, whatever. I don't have reliable supplement that will do what I need it to do tomorrow 4th of July. If we want to have that conversation in the exam room, I'm always open to talking to people about anything.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Okay. All right. That makes a ton of sense in the short time frame. We don't have time to, to, to play with that. Are there again. Well, I guess let's just, we'll just stick the, to the, to the fireworks. So the nice thing about firework phobia is we generally tend to know when we're going to encounter them. Maybe unlike thunderstorm phobia, where I'm at work, I have no idea this is going to, this is going to be what's happened. But I generally know the 4th of July is coming and there are things I can do to prepare. Do you look to supplements for something like that at all?

[Dr. Andy Rourke]

I mean, I guess I'm just sort

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

of trying to get, get my head around, is there a role for supplements in something that is predictable like fireworks, even if they really want to do it? You said you're open to the conversation. To what end, I guess is what I'm asking.

[Dr. Lisa Radosta]

Yeah. So if we have to have time to prepare, we have various ways to use supplements. So we have those veterinary supplements I hope everybody has on their shelf. That's going to be Zilkene Soloquin. You certainly have access to melatonin, which we're going to label a supplement for this conversation. Melatonin is the supplement that's going to work right now for sure, in about an hour and a half. And you can use dermoid ranges. Whatever you use for your derm disease that's responsive to melatonin, you can go ahead and use those doses. It's not going to cause a high level of sedation, but you're going to get some anxiety relief and some sedation from it. I can prepare by two weeks ahead, preloading my patient with either Zilkene or Soliquin depending on the presentation. They are not the same. They don't work the same. Right. So that's an option. There are OTC supplements that your pet parents can purchase that may work in an hour or two. The thing is that in my patient population I need something that works. I can't be messing around with a maybe. So I do not recommend any of those. If they want to use them, rescue, remedy, whatever they can, but it's not going to come out of my mouth because I need effective products. Perfect.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

No, that, that, that completely makes sense to me. Okay, so we, we walk through this. We need to be aggressive because this is the 3rd of July. Warning her about sedation. Going, going a bit heavy. Air, air on the over sedated side. Because you don't want to get this wrong. Correct.

[Dr. Lisa Radosta]

Right, Right. And you have to, you have to know your client. You've got to know who you're talking to. There are some clients that I could. Not that I know them well enough to know I can't go on the heavy side. And instead I'm going to go on the light side and warn them. I don't think this is going to sedate your dog. It's okay. We're not going to give up on this med for next year if it doesn't fully sedate your dog. You got to know your people for sure.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Okay, that, that completely makes sense. What medications are you your go to at this point? You said Trazodone. Highly unreliable. There's a lot of good things about trazodone. It's, you know, we're generally pretty comfortable with it. It's not something like alprazolam or something that we're highly regulated and we have other sort of legal issues and things like that. What else do you reach for? I guess what are your, what are your favorites?

[Dr. Lisa Radosta]

So I am one of those. As anybody listening heard me lecture, they know I don't have any favorites. I love all the drugs the same.

[Dr. Andy Rourke]

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[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

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[Dr. Andy Rourke]

I love this event. That's September 15th. Medical directors head over to unchartedvet.com to get signed up today.

[Dr. Lisa Radosta]

Okay. So the thing about Trazodone is that you will probably do no harm. That's why I reached her at first. Even if you sedate the animal, it's unlikely that the animal is going to be ataxic. Right. So they'll still be able to get up and go to the bathroom. So if everything else is unknown, it's a good med to start with. We need a healthy liver if we're going to use Trazodone. That's something to think about. So that is my go to for that reason in this situation. Another possibility is quanidine. Unlikely you're going to do harm with clonidine. You will not get the sedation of Trazodone. But you have not been given the privilege of examining the pet and speaking to the pet parent you don't even know. I mean, you have examined the pet in the right.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Yeah, we're gonna work behavioralid relationship here.

[Dr. Lisa Radosta]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you haven't been able to ask the proper questions to really know what medication to choose. So the first two no harm medications are probably gonna be trazodone and clonidine. We love benzodiazepines. Love, love them. But the problem is the disinhibition. Even though it's only in about 20% of the cases, let's say, that have been given Valium, for example. The problem is if that is one of the 20% she is fighting mad at you and she and her dog have had a horrible fourth of July. So we can't go there with that prep time.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Right. That, that makes so much sense. Perfect. Is this dog destined to get worse over time? Is that a foregone conclusion?

[Dr. Lisa Radosta]

Oh, yeah.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Okay.

[Simparica Trio Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Dr. Andy Rourke]

Okay.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

So just prep her for that too. You know, prepper, that this is the beginning and we're going to manage it. But this is going to be an ongoing, an ongoing issue that we are going to struggle with. It's not going to be just this is the worst it's going to get at age three.

[Dr. Lisa Radosta]

Right. And I'm going to tweak if I can just a hair of what you said. An ongoing disorder that we will manage. Not that we will struggle with because as a doctor, I'm not going to Struggle with it. I have endless resources. I have solutions. I can help you. We're going to manage it. Just like diabetes and. And just like arthritis, right? Yeah, we're going to manage it.

[Simparica Trio Advertiser / Side Effects Informant]

Perfect.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Dr. Radasa, you are amazing. That's exactly what I need. This is so wonderful. I have, I have personally sucked up so much that I'm going to be using. You mentioned your website. I'm going to put links to some of your resources in the comments on the podcast and so people are welcome to get that. Where can people find you? Or if they have questions or they want to read more from you or they want more information, like to see your handouts. Where can people go to learn more about you and learn more about your service?

[Dr. Lisa Radosta]

They can go to our business website, which is fl vetbehavior.com Flet behavior.com and that's the way to get me. There's a contact Us form. They can see everything we have there.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Excellent. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you again for being here.

[Zoetis Representative]

Thanks.

[Dr. Andy Rourke]

And that's what I got for you guys. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you got something out of it. Thanks so much to Lisa Radosta for a great episode that I could share with you guys. Again, gang, take care of yourselves. Have a wonderful fourth of July. Talk to you later on. Are you an early career veterinarian, a new graduate, or a vet Student? This is Dr. Andy Rourke. And guys, I wanted to put something together just for you. I've got a brand new totally free newsletter. It only comes out once a quarter. It's definitely not meant to fill up your inbox, but I wanted to go ahead and just consolidate all of the information that me and the Uncharted Veterinary Conference are doing for early career veterinarians into one place. I'm going to be writing especially for this newsletter.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

We're going to have podcast episodes that

[Dr. Andy Rourke]

are in here specifically for early career vets, new grads, vet students. We're going to have training resources, we're going to have certificate courses, we're going to have special discount codes that are just for you guys. And so if you're in this boat and you want some content that's going to help you have an easier career, enjoy your time in practice, be more effective and happier as a veterinarian. Guys, this is for you. It's totally free. I'm happy to give it to you. Head over to Dr. Andy Rourke.com careervets that's Dr. Andy Rourke.comcareervets or you can find the link in the show notes. I hope this is really valuable for you. I hope that you'll check it out.