Podcast
The Creative Penn
Hosted by Joanna Penn · EN
Writing, self-publishing, book marketing, making a living with your writing
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Creative Clarity: Focus, Self-Care, And A Little Bit Of Tough Love
Dec 23, 202400:47:54Tap to summarizeHow can you create when there's an overwhelming list of things to do and too many competing priorities? How can you balance self-care with achieving your creative goals. In this episode, I’ll share some tips from previous podcast guests to help you step back, reassess your priorities, and hopefully help you let go of at least some of the things on your list. In the intro, Author branding [Self-Publishing Advice Podcast]; Example prompts if you want to explore your author brand; Google Gemini Advanced with Deep Research; How to Write Non-Fiction Second Edition; Tips for writing non-fiction, I'm on The Biz Book Broadcast with Liz Scully; Q&A on how to write non-fiction [Apex Author]; 7 Steps to Write Your Non-Fiction Book in 2025 — me on Reedsy Live, 15 Jan. This episode is sponsored by Publisher Rocket, which will help you get your book in front of more Amazon readers so you can spend less time marketing and more time writing. I use Publisher Rocket for researching book titles, categories, and keywords — for new books and for updating my backlist. Check it out at www.PublisherRocket.com This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn Show Notes (1) Tackle overwhelm by focusing on your ‘circle of influence' — with Mark McGuinness (2) Be kinder to yourself — with Ellen Bard (3) Sort out your sleep — with Dr Anne D. Bartolucci (4) Protect your private creative practice — with Austin Kleon (5) Overcome Resistance and adopt the attitude of a professional — with Steve Pressfield (6) Make the most of the limited time you have — with Todd Henry Creative Clarity: Focus, Self-Care, and Letting Go (1) If you’re struggling, focus on your circle of influence Life can be overwhelming with work and family commitments and health concerns, even as the waves of change grow ever higher — with political shifts, technological change with generative AI, financial changes and of course, all the things we have to do as authors, if we want to get our books finished and out into the world, and reaching readers. It’s easy to feel overwhelmed with everything, especially in difficult times. In April 2020, back in pandemic times, I talked to poet and creative coach Mark McGuinness about how to stay creative in difficult times. He reminded us of how to keep things in perspective, and why focusing on your circle of influence is the way forward. “Here's another thing that I'm using a lot with clients and remembering to use myself is Stephen Covey's circles of influence and concern. Imagine a big circle, right? And in this circle is everything that affects you and the people that you care about in your life. It includes the economy, the weather, the environment, it includes what other people are up to. It includes, I dunno, your sports team. And of course it includes all the stream of news and information that's coming at us. Now we need to be aware of this because by definition, it's a circle of concern. It affects us. But now I want you to imagine inside of that, there's a smaller circle. It looks like a fried egg. And Covey points out, this is in his book, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. He says, the circle of influence will always be the smaller circle. In other words, there's always more stuff happening in your life that affects you than vice versa. But here's how we use it. The more time and attention you give to that big circle, the more anxious and disempowered and frustrated and overwhelmed you will feel. And also the smaller the inner circle gets, 'cause you're not taking action on it. Now we need to be aware of it. But. I would say definitely ration that and ration social media because there, there's so much anxiety coming at you from that and beyond a certain point, you've got the information and you're just mainlining anxiety. Covey encourages us to focus on the small circle, the circle of influence, and ask, okay, what is in my small circle right now? What can I actually do that's going to make a positive difference? So stuff to take care of yourself. The restorative practice stuff to take care of your family, , people you care about, , stuff that will take care of your work and your business. And the idea is that the more time you spend in this circle of influence, the more empowered you feel. And in fact, the more empowered you are because you're doing stuff that makes a difference. So that small circle can get quite a bit bigger. You can have a fried egg with a really big yoke in it, relative to the other one. Definitely keep that image in mind, sketch it on a post-it, and stick it up above your desk. And keep asking yourself when, particularly when you feel overwhelmed, say, well, what is in my small circle here? If there's nothing, it's just a news item you're worrying about, then distract yourself from it. Go and do something else. But ideally you want to find something, ‘Okay, I can go and do that right now, and then I will feel that I'm making the difference that I can.” The question for you here is — How are you getting derailed by things that are out of your control? What is in your circle of influence and how can you focus on that instead? You can find Mark on his podcasts, The 21st Century Creative, and poetry show, A Mouthful of Air. (2) Be kinder to yourself Back in 2016, I talked to author and consultant Ellen Bard about balancing self-care and productivity, something I struggle with and I know many of you do, too.Too much self care feels lazy and too much productivity can burn you out. How do we balance it all? “I think that we can be very tough on ourselves as indies and, you don't have to look at the kind of popular books around, , write 5,000 words and which, you know, I own all those books and I love them because I love productivity stuff. , but sometimes I do step back and think, whoa, just, relax. It's all good. For writers in particular, I think there's a few different aspects where we can definitely be kinder to ourselves. The first one and the most obvious one in many ways is the physical. So often as writers, we see ourselves as a brain. Maybe a brain with a pair of hands. If we're on a good day, but do we remember that actually that brain comes in a body and there's a whole load of other stuff around the brain that needs looking after? And so the basic stuff around getting enough sleep, eating the right foods, not over caffeinating or over sugaring, in your day when you are got the cookies or the biscuits down in the kitchen. Keeping an eye on them , and balancing them out, so caffeine alone isn't gonna get any of us to write more words. It should be an enjoyable thing that we en...
Transcribe →Book Proposals, Writing Non-Fiction, And Supercommunicators With Charles Duhigg
Dec 16, 202400:53:45Tap to summarizeHow can you write a book proposal that will make a publisher want to buy your book? How can you write a successful non-fiction book that both interests you and attracts a lot of readers? How can you improve your communication in person and online? Charles Duhigg gives his thoughts. In the intro, HarperCollins CEO Brian Murray on audiobooks and AI [TechCrunch]; OpenAI's 12 days including Sora and o1; Google Notebook LM expansion; How Creatives Might Survive and Thrive in a Post-Productivity World [Monica Leonelle]. Plus, How to Write Non-Fiction, Second Edition. Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, self-publishing with support, where you can get free formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Just go to www.draft2digital.com to get started. This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn Charles Duhigg is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist, a reporter at The New Yorker Magazine, and a multi-award-winning author whose book, The Power of Habit, spent three years on the New York Times list. His latest New York Times bestselling book is Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection. You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. Show Notes How the writing process differs between books and magazines Balancing what readers want to read and what you want to write Research that comes before and after a book proposal Tips for conducting successful research interviews The process of organizing research for a nonfiction book Improving the art of written communication Dealing with the fear of miscommunication and judgement The importance of connection in communication You can find Charles at CharlesDuhigg.com. Transcript of Interview with Charles Duhigg Joanna: Charles Duhigg is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist, a reporter at The New Yorker Magazine, and a multi-award-winning author whose book, The Power of Habit, spent three years on the New York Times list. His latest New York Times bestselling book is Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection. Welcome to the show, Charles. Charles: Thank you for having me. This is such a treat. Joanna: I'm excited to talk to you. So first up— Why did you get into writing books when journalism has clearly been such a success for you? Charles: Well, it actually started when my wife was pregnant with our first child, and we didn't have any money, and so I thought, okay, I'll go write a book. Maybe that'll give me enough money so that maybe we can find a decent place to live. My first book was The Power of Habit, about the science of habit formation, and it really came out of my own problems and questions. I wanted to figure out how to improve my habits, how to be able to lose weight and exercise more easily. The process of writing a book, I found, is such a total joy and also overwhelmingly hard. You get to get so deep into the material, you get to understand what's going on. Not only what experts are telling you and what stories you ought to tell, but also you get to think about the ideas in really profound ways. So that just kind of became an addiction for me. I've really enjoyed writing books. Even though if you asked me in the middle of them, I would tell you it's the worst thing I've ever done in my entire life. Joanna: Well, yes, all of us listening understand that. It is interesting because, I mean, there's a lot of comparisons to your journalism. You interview a lot of people, and you include a lot of that. How is the process of these longer form books different to your journalism pieces? Charles: So it's a little akin to writing magazine pieces, because oftentimes for the magazine piece, I'll write 8,000 to 12,000 words, and each chapter of a book is about 7,500 to 9,500 words. So it's not that far off. The difference is that when I'm writing a magazine piece, I can just write a magazine piece about whatever the topic is. I can write about AI, or I can write about politics. With a book, you're writing the equivalent of, let's say, eight to ten magazine pieces, but there has to be something that ties them together. There has to be an overarching argument or an overarching idea that every chapter reflects in a different way, and finding that idea can take a long time. The two hardest parts, I think, of writing a book are, first of all, deciding what topic to write on. Oftentimes, it takes me a year or two to really figure out a topic that I think is going to be interesting and that I think readers are going to think of as interesting. Then it oftentimes takes another year or six months to figure out what the overarching argument is. Oftentimes it's not obvious from the reporting what that connective tissue is, but it's my job to find it. Joanna: That's really interesting that it takes you a year or two to figure out what you want to write. You mentioned there what you're interested in, but also want the what the readers want. So what is that process? Because this is something we all struggle with. I write fiction as well, and much of my audience do. How do you find where those two things — what you want, and what the readers want — interconnect? Charles: I think a big part of it is you just have to indulge things and then be prepared for them not to be successes. So take Supercommunicators, my most recent book, which is about the science of communication. It originally started with me trying to figure out why some people were better listeners than others. I thought it was a book about listening, but the thing is, that as I talked about it with my editor and as I did research, I realized listening is a little boring on its own. Most people don't wake up saying, “I really want to be a great listener.” They say, “I want to be a great listener and I want other people to listen to me.” So it took a little while to figure out, okay, this is actually about communication. Then once we started figuring out it was about communication, it also got a little bit boring to me. It just seemed like there was so much research and so much advice out there on, “This is how you should hold your arms,” or, “This is how you should repeat back what the person said.” After a little while, and particularly after talking to neuroscientists about why communication works within our brains, what I realized is it's actually not a book about communication, it's a book about connection. How do we connect with other people? <h3 class=...
Transcribe →Building A Business Ecosystem Around Non-Fiction Books With Michael Bungay Stanier
Dec 9, 202400:52:41Tap to summarizeHow can you build a scalable business around non-fiction books? How can you turn a book into multiple streams of income? How can you delegate in order to scale? Michael Bungay Stanier shares his thoughts. In the intro, Bookfunnel's Universal Book Links, and How to Write Non-Fiction Second Edition; ALCS survey results of writers on AI, remuneration, transparency and choice; AI Translation is the Game-Changer’s Game-Changer [The New Publishing Standard] This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn Michael Bungay Stanier is the bestselling author of five books, with a million copies sold, including The Coaching Habit, How to Begin, and How to Work with (Almost) Anyone. He's also the founder of training and development company Box of Crayons, a podcaster, speaker, and coach. You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. Show Notes Michael's publishing journey and why he likes the control of hybrid publishing Creating a business ecosystem beyond the book — multiple streams of income Tips for successfully delegating in your author business and improving professional relationships The challenges of creating a premium print journal How journaling can help you figure out what you really want You can find Michael at MBS.works or BoxofCrayons.com. You can get the journal at DoSomethingJournal.com. Transript of Interview with Michael Bungay Stanier Joanna: Michael Bungay Stanier is the bestselling author of five books, with a million copies sold, including The Coaching Habit, How to Begin, and How to Work with (Almost) Anyone. He's also the founder of training and development company Box of Crayons, a podcaster, speaker, and coach. Welcome to the show, Michael. Michael: Jo, I'm so happy to be here. It was earlier this year that you and I were hanging out in a field together, and this is warmer and less damp, amongst other things. Joanna: Yes, indeed. We were at The DO Lectures in Wales, which we're going to come back to. First up— Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing and publishing. Michael: Well, the seed was planted by having a grandmother who was a writer. So my dad's mum lived in Oxford, England, and she wrote columns for the local newspaper, kind of gossip columns. Her pen name was Culex, which is Latin for mosquito, which I love. She also wrote kids’ books, and memoirs, and plays, and radio scripts. She was a really prolific writer. So I think that was probably the early seed, along with my dad being a great storyteller. He would tell stories at night of Sir Michael. I was meeting Sir Nigel, Sir Angus, my two brothers, and we'd head off and have adventures. So this idea of loving stories and loving writing, I think was planted pretty early on. I found in university and in my first careers after university, I would inevitably end up writing the newsletter. In university, I was part of the law newspaper and the English department newspaper. Writing and writing and writing has just been part of the practice for a long time. Which, as you know, is all part of putting in your 10,000 hours, finding your voice, learning how to write a sentence. Starting off copying other people's styles and then trying to find your own style emerging from that. The first time an actual book idea showed up in my head, and this turned into an actual book that I published called Get Unstuck & Get Going. I had this idea that I thought about coaching, which was a profession I just started in. I was like, you know, there's a way of doing this that can be more efficient than actually having a coach. I had this idea of like the kids’ flip books, where you have like a ballerina's head and a scuba diver's body and a soccer player's legs, and you kind of combine them into these kind of different combinations. I had this idea that you could create a book with different questions. So you'd bring a problem to the book, and you'd open it and randomly generate some questions, and voila, you'd have a self-directed coaching practice. So I had this idea, and wrote some stuff up, and went and made some prototypes. Then I honestly just couldn't figure out how to publish it because no publisher wanted this, and self-publishing felt impossible. So I kind of put it in a drawer, until my cousin Robert went, “You know that book you were telling me about, this kind of self-coaching book? I noticed you're not doing it, and I was telling my boss about it, and he thought he his company could do it.” I was like, “Wait, no, what? Ah!” So that was kind of the catalyst to me getting a first book published. After that — I just realized that writing books and producing books and getting them out in the world is one of the best expressions of the way I try and serve the world. Joanna: I love that, and it's a really interesting story. Just give us a sense of the timeline because you said there that self-publishing would be difficult. I mean, self-publishing that kind of book would be difficult. You've got five books now with, I presume, different publishers or self-publishing. Tell us a bit about that publishing journey and the timeline. Michael: So, let's see. Get Unstuck & Get Going would have been around about 2006, so before Amazon and others kind of made self-publishing a regular book normal. Then I self-published another book called Find Your Great Work, and did a print run of like a couple of thousand copies. I was super excited about it. A friend of mine went, “Oh, this is good,” and he sent it to his editor at Workman, which is a New York publishing house. They came back and said they'd like to publish this. I was like, well, I've already published 2000. They're like, well, soon as those are done, we'll redo this book for you. So in 2010, I think, I published a book with Workman in New York. So that was a regular publishing experience. <p...
Transcribe →Writing The Other And Self-Publishing in South Africa With Ashling McCarthy
Dec 2, 202400:55:13Tap to summarizeHow can we write from the perspective of others while still respecting different cultures? How can a children's book author make money from bulk sales? How is self-publishing in South Africa different? With Ashling McCarthy. In the intro, Spotify for Authors and Katie Cross on self-narration and email marketing; How do I know when to leave my publisher? [Katy Loftus]; and Claude Styles. Today’s show is sponsored by FindawayVoices by Spotify, the platform for independent authors who want to unlock the world’s largest audiobook platforms. Take your audiobook everywhere to earn everywhere with Findaway Voices by Spotify. Go to findawayvoices.com/penn to publish your next audiobook project. This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn Ashling McCarthy is a South African author and artist, as well as an anthropologist, graphic designer, and non-profit founder. Her latest book is Down at Jika Jika Tavern, in The Poacher's Moon Crime Series. You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. Show Notes How Ashling's background in anthropology helps in writing books How research can help us write from other perspectives The importance of empathy when writing “the other” Debunking South African stereotypes and tips for visitors The book ecosystem in South Africa Difficulties of selling direct in different countries Marketing your book to schools and creating teaching opportunities Find out more about Ashling at AshlingMcCarthy.co.za. Transcript of Interview with Ashling McCarthy Joanna: Ashling McCarthy is a South African author and artist, as well as an anthropologist, graphic designer, and non-profit founder. Her latest book is Down at Jika Jika Tavern, in The Poacher's Moon Crime Series. So welcome to the show, Ashling. Ashling: Hi, Joanna. Thanks so much. I'm really looking forward to it. Joanna: Yes, great. So first up— Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing and publishing. Ashling: Well, writing and publishing has come quite late to me. It wasn't something that I'd ever actually intended on doing. I started off as a graphic designer in South Africa and did a bit of work in the UK, then came home when I was completely homesick. I got into a really interesting craft development program for people who had a three-year qualification in design, and we would be working with women who lived in rural communities in an area called KwaZulu-Natal, where I live. As long as you had a three-year design qualification, they'd match you up with women in rural areas who were very skilled at craft. The idea was that then we would work together to match those skills to create high-end product. So it was really that experience that allowed me to see South Africa in a very different light, and I went on to become an anthropologist and a nonprofit founder. So that took a good probably 15 years of my life and writing a book kind of came out of running the nonprofit. We're an education nonprofit, and we work with rural schools. So children who go to really poorly resourced schools in rural communities in in South Africa. I wanted to write a book for the young women in our communities who didn't have any examples of themselves in books. We would get lots of donations from overseas companies for books, but there was nothing that reflected their lives, their experiences. So I thought, oh, maybe I'll start to write a book that kind of reflects that. So Down at Jika Jika Tavern is actually the first book in The Poacher's Moon Crime Series. I, last year, published the second book, The Leopard in the Lala. How that came about, in terms of writing a crime series versus an educational kid’s book, was that my family was very involved in a game farm with wildlife. Just one day I was thinking about the fact that so many people who live on the outskirts of these game farms have no access to them. So the only chance of them seeing a rhino or an elephant or any other kind of game is from the other side of the fence, and I kind of wondered what that would feel like. So I started to write a story that would bring that to light. It was during our time on the game farm it was the height of rhino poaching, and we had six rhinos poached over a period of time. I really started to get a feel for what the book would be about because there were so many interesting incidences that took place. So for example, a traditional healer was arrested on the neighboring game farm for being involved in rhino poaching. I wanted to understand better, why would somebody who effectively has a calling to do good, why would they be involved in such a heinous crime? We just had so many little interesting things happen that I was able to then weave these real life stories into fiction to better understand why people become involved in rhino poaching and wildlife crime. Joanna: Yes, because being an anthropologist, I mean, obviously that means you're interested in people and what different people do. Talk about what the job of an anthropologist is and how much you use from your career in the books. What are some of the interesting anthropological things you weave in? I mean, you mentioned the traditional healer. Like, what are the other things? Ashling: So I must say, anthropology plays a really big part in my writing. I studied Anthro, got a master's degree in HIV/AIDS and orphan care, and really it was looking at what kind of cultural practices lead to people becoming infected and affected by HIV. It was really those experiences of understanding how culture can have such a huge impact on the way people respond to certain things. So now in my books, I mean, obviously, as a South African, we have 11, in fact, now 12 official languages. We are multi-faith, multicultural, so it's very hard to try and tell a story from one perspective. For me as a white female Christian, how do I write a story that involves many different cultures, different faiths, different belief systems, without it coming across as judgmental or bias? So I really do use the methodologies that we learnt in Anthropology, of curiosity, listening, observing, and trying to understand somebody's perspective from the world that they've come from without bringing in my own thoughts and feelings about that. So it's really interesting and fascinating. I think it helps to better understand why people do things. Then we can look at—I mean, obviously we want to end rhino poaching and wildlife crime, but just telling people not to do it isn't good enough. We have to try and help them work with the systems that they have in place that could lead to a reduction in those actions. Joanna: I love that, and I think that's so good in terms of whatever we're writing, whatever genre, taking the perspective of someone else. I mean, just your examples there, say poaching and HIV, there are some people who might write a story that's like, “Well, they are evil. They're the criminal. They're the bad ...
Transcribe →The Intuitive Author With Tiffany Yates Martin
Nov 25, 202401:06:57Tap to summarizeHow can you manage the competing priorities of an author career? How can you deal with the demons we all have to wrestle with along the way? Tiffany Yates Martin talks about the role of intuition in decision-making, the challenges of feedback and rejection, and the importance of reclaiming creativity during difficult times. In the intro, Amazon Music Unlimited will now include a free audiobook a month [The Verge]; When to pivot or quit [Self-Publishing Advice]; Thoughts on sunk cost fallacy, and how do you know when things are ending? Are they spiraling up, or down?, Quit: The Power of Knowing When To Walk Away by Annie Duke. Plus, HarperCollins AI licensing deal [The Verge; The Authors Guild]; and Seahenge is out everywhere, as well as at my store, JFPennBooks.com. Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, self-publishing with support, where you can get free formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Just go to www.draft2digital.com to get started. This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn Tiffany Yates Martin is an editor, speaker, and teacher with over 30 years in the publishing industry. She writes contemporary women's fiction as Phoebe Fox, and her latest non-fiction book is The Intuitive Author: How to Grow & Sustain a Happier Writing Career. You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. Show Notes Overcoming the “writer demons” Setting priorities to help manage overwhelm Honing into your intuition in relation to your author career Distinguishing intuition from hype or peer pressure Defining goals that are within your control Staying resilient when dealing with feedback and rejection Reclaiming your creative spark in difficult times You can find Tiffany Yates Martin at FoxPrintEditorial.com. Transcript of Interview with Tiffany Yates Martin Joanna: Tiffany Yates Martin is an editor, speaker, and teacher with over 30 years in the publishing industry. She writes contemporary women's fiction as Phoebe Fox, and her latest non-fiction book is The Intuitive Author: How to Grow & Sustain a Happier Writing Career. So welcome back to the show, Tiffany. Tiffany: Thanks for having me again, Joanna. Joanna: So we talked about your background when you were last on the show in April 2022, so today we're going to jump straight into the book. Why did you write this book? What problems did you see in the author community that led you to want to write about happiness and sustainability? Tiffany: I know, it's kind of a departure for me. I've spent all these years as an editor working on hard skills, craft skills, and teaching about that. Then I was actually in the middle of writing what was to have been the follow up book to my first, Intuitive Editing, which was a deep dive into character development. I just kept writing and thinking and talking about these other ideas because I was hearing from a lot of authors that they were feeling overwhelmed by all the changes and the constantly evolving publishing environment. I think it's a fortunate time to be an author because I think we have the opportunity to have more control and autonomy over our careers. We have more avenues than ever before. Publishing has become democratized, but that also brings with it a lot of overwhelm. I was hearing a lot of discouragement, so I started in my blog, where I used to focus a lot on hard skills, I started writing more about this stuff. I just wanted to try to help authors based on what I was hearing and seeing, and they got huge response. So the character book just kept balking at me, and I finally realized that one of the things I kept talking about in my blog posts was to pay attention to your motivation, to what you want out of your career. That's the part that we really have control over, is what our day to day life looks like as authors. So I decided to follow my own advice and turn my attentions to the book that really wanted to be written right now, that I felt like authors probably need more than ever. Joanna: I think that's so important, as much as I'm sure your character book will be amazing if you do do it. I think this is something I felt very much last year, which is the more prescriptive—you call it hard skills there—the prescriptive, “do this, do that.” I mean character development, there's a lot of books on that. Your take would have been different. Also similar, my last nonfiction book, Writing the Shadow, it's like the personal stuff, the mindset stuff, the lifestyle stuff, all of that actually is something that AI and the machines can't share. I mean, they can share it, but it's not their experience, whereas it is actually our experience. So I agree, I think that's so important. Just on that overwhelm and the changes that are going on, what are some of the things that people are saying to you? Because I think that will resonate with people listening as well. Tiffany: I was startled by how many—particularly in traditional publishing—how many authors were feeling discouraged by what seems to be trends in the industry. I'm a fan of any kind of publishing path that fits an author, so I'm not slamming on traditional publishing, but advances do seem to be going down, in general. There is a fascination with the debut author. So if you're not that shiny new thing, I think that it feels as if traditional publishing doesn't help an author build a following and a career over the span of their career in a way that it used to focus on. So it's like, come on, make a big splash with your book, or else they're moving on without you. As a result of that, a lot of authors—I just talked to one yesterday—are being encouraged to try new genres, to write under a pen name so that you can kind of disown disappointing sales in the past. Competition is higher than ever. There's more than two million books published a year. So I think authors are feeling like it's harder and harder to pop out of the slush pile. Even with indie publishing, with all the opportunity that it offers and the greater...
Transcribe →Writing Memoir And Dealing With Haters With Natalie Maclean
Nov 18, 202401:02:45Tap to summarizeHow can you write memoir with deep sensory detail? How does terroir in wine equate to the writer's voice? How can you manage your online presence while still protecting yourself from the haters? Multi-award-winning wine writer Natalie MacLean shares her tips. In the intro, initial thoughts on Author Nation 2024, photos from Death Valley @jfpennauthor, Folk horror on The Nightmare Engine Podcast, Walking the Camino de Santiago on the Action Packed Travel Podcast; Introversion and writing the shadow on The Quiet and Strong Podcast. Today’s show is sponsored by FindawayVoices by Spotify, the platform for independent authors who want to unlock the world’s largest audiobook platforms. Take your audiobook everywhere to earn everywhere with Findaway Voices by Spotify. Go to findawayvoices.com/penn to publish your next audiobook project. This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn Natalie MacLean is a multi-award-winning wine writer, named World's Best Drinks Writer at The World Food Media Awards, as well as a sommelier, TV wine expert, and host of The Unreserved Wine Talk Podcast. She's also the bestselling author of multiple nonfiction books on wine, including Unquenchable, named as one of Amazon's best books of the year. Her latest book is Wine Witch on Fire: Rising from the Ashes of Divorce, Defamation, and Drinking Too Much. You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. Show Notes Challenges of writing memoir compared to journalistic writing Using memoir to tell your Truth Tips for sensory writing from a ‘super taster' What is terroir and how to use it in your writing Maintaining boundaries while still marketing your author brand Dealing with crisis management and managing your mental health How to reach and engage with book clubs Connecting multiple streams of income Utilising podcasting for book marketing in your author business You can find Natalie at NatalieMaclean.com. Transcript of Interview with Natalie Maclean Joanna: Natalie MacLean is a multi-award-winning wine writer, named World's Best Drinks Writer at The World Food Media Awards, as well as a sommelier, TV wine expert, and host of The Unreserved Wine Talk Podcast. She's also the bestselling author of multiple nonfiction books on wine, including Unquenchable, named as one of Amazon's best books of the year. Her latest book is Wine Witch on Fire: Rising from the Ashes of Divorce, Defamation, and Drinking Too Much. So welcome to the show, Natalie. Natalie: It is so good to be back here with you. We've had an initial chat on my podcast [about biodynamic wine and Blood Vintage], but I am so looking forward to this, Jo. Joanna: Oh, yes. So first up, just— Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing and publishing. Natalie: Sure. So my career path was probably like a lot of folks. I didn't plan to be a writer. I didn't have the confidence to be a writer. I was brought up by a single mom, single parent mom. She was a school teacher, so she really pounded it into me, make sure you get an education that will get you a job. So I wanted to study English, but no, no. So it was PR and an MBA, and right into the workforce in high tech marketing. Along the way, I was working for a super computer company that was based in Mountain View, California. I'm Canadian, and I still live here, but the head office was down where the campus of Google now is. So I started arranging all of my meetings there when I had to go on Fridays so I could stay over the weekend and drive up to Napa and Sonoma. While I didn't have time to learn golf or pottery or anything else, I was dining out a lot with clients or whatever. So I really grew to love wine. So that sparked my interest in wine. Then while I was off on maternity leave, I thought, well, I have to keep my brain active somehow. I had taken a sommelier course just for fun because that's what type As do. It was a good thing I wasn't taking golf lessons because, you know, long iron clubs and type A, that's just not a good combination. So wine worked. So while I was off on maternity leave, I pitched the editor of a local food magazine because I noticed they had all these gorgeous recipes, but no wine content. I knew just enough about wine to be a little dangerous. She said, yes, okay, have you published before? I said yes, praying that she would not ask me to send samples because all I had was my high school newspaper. So she gave me a chance. The first article or column was “How to Find Wine Food Pairings on the Internet.” That was the headline back then, it's gotten much more specific since. That led to a regular column, which gave me the confidence just to cold call other editors. Then I started landing columns in some of our national newspapers here in Canada and magazines. I didn't know anybody. I was a nobody from nowhere who made a career out of nothing. I loved it so much that by the time my maternity leave was over, which is generous here in Canada, was almost a year, I decided not to go back. I had found something that really sparked a passion. Wine gave me the confidence to write. I had a hook. Otherwise I would have never thought someone's going to pay me to write. Also, I could be home with my son. So it just all worked, and that's kind of how it came together. Joanna: Just on that, should we just be clear that you were not swigging bottles of wine during your maternity! Natalie: Yes. No need to call child services. Mommy doesn't drink while she's pregnant. I had finished the sommelier course while I was pregnant. In all seriousness, I never took a drop, and that remains the health guidance. There are a lot of tips in my book about cutting back on drinking. I didn't mean to write a self-help book, but it kind of turned into that for some people. Definitely, no, I was not swigging. I was not giving my little guy Pinot Noir early on. Wine just touched all my senses. I often say you could do a liberal arts degree with wine as the hub because it ties to all facets of human endeavor. History, art, religion, commerce, science, war, politics. So it just fascinated me, beyond the buzz of it. Joanna: Oh, and let's add dating and sex to the list. Natalie: Oh yes, absolutely. There's a reason why it's a better social lubricant than, say, orange juice. Joanna: Absolutely. That's fantastic. Then, again, just so people know, when was that? It wasn't like last year. How long have you now been doing this? Natalie: So my son was born at the end of '98, and so it's been 25 years. It's been a time. Joanna: I think that's really important because what you just described there, starting out and having nothing, and now you're multi-award-winn...
Transcribe →Dark Tourism And Self-Publishing Premium Print Books With Images With Leon Mcanally
Nov 11, 202400:45:31Tap to summarizeWhat is dark tourism and why are many of us interested in places associated with death and tragedy? How can you write and self-publish a premium print guidebook while managing complicated design elements, image permissions, and more? With Leon Mcanally. In the intro, level up with author assistants [Written Word Media]; and Blood Vintage signing pics. This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn Leon McAnally is the author of A Guide to Dark Attractions in the UK. You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. Show Notes The definition of dark tourism and what types of places it includes Public opinion around dark tourism sites Self-publishing to keep creative control of book design and content Researching historical sites and keeping an organized system How to obtain permissions for publishing images Working with a designer on a photo-heavy book Using book signings and social media as part of a book marketing strategy Managing expectations for research- and design-extensive projects You can find Leon on his Facebook page: Dark Attractions in the UK. Transcript of Interview with Leon McAnally Joanna: Leon McAnally is the author of A Guide to Dark Attractions in the UK, which is brilliant. My quote is on the back, and I said, “A fascinating book for all the dark little souls out there.” So welcome to the show, Leon. Leon: Thank you, Joanna, for having me. Joanna: I'm excited to talk about this topic, and you and I are both dark little souls. First up— Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing and self-publishing. Leon: Well, I studied travel and tourism in college. That's where I first learned of this term called dark tourism, places associated with death, suffering and tragedy. I came away looking into these places and was really fascinated with the tourism aspect and the history aspect. My university touched on this topic more, so I went and studied Travel and Tourism at the University of Northampton. I focused a lot around the motivations of dark tourism and the ethical issues around dark tourism. After uni, I wasn't sure what to do, but I wanted to travel to a lot of the places that I'd been writing about, like Auschwitz and the Catacombs of Paris. Then I got into writing because I came across yourself, actually. When I was researching dark tourism, I think you popped up on a website. I started reading your ARKANE thriller series and looked into yourself a bit more, and I was like, you're just an inspiration. Joanna: Thank you. Leon: So it seemed from that, and then yourself. Then I was in Paris visiting the Catacombs at the time, and that evening I sat down and was like, what do I do with myself now? Then I thought to myself, there's no book that covers like dark tourism across the whole of the UK. So, yes, it set me off on a journey, really. Joanna: First of all, I'm really thrilled to inspire you. I'm glad I turned up on some website, that's excellent. Let's just return to this idea of dark tourism. You mentioned places associated with death, suffering and tragedy. You mentioned two places that are quite different, Auschwitz, which of course, is modern horror, really. Then the Paris Catacombs, which, if people don't know, are full of plague dead, but it's bones that are arranged in different ways. I find the Catacombs an awesome place. I'm sure you enjoyed it as well, right? Leon: Yes, definitely. It was really eye opening. Joanna: Exactly. I think those two places are disturbing in different ways. People are like, why are the pair of you interested in this stuff? So what do you think? You mentioned studying the motivations. Why do people visit these places? Why do you and I find these ‘dark tourism' places interesting? Leon: I think there's a number of factors at play. It depends on the place you're visiting because dark tourism is an umbrella term for loads of places, and that's what a lot of people don't realize. So it could be that you go to a memorial to remember people who have tragically died. It also could be a totally different place, and it makes you perceive life differently and how you wish to be known in life, as well as after life. The Victorian cemeteries that are within my book, The Magnificent Seven cemeteries in London, I visited them. So one, they gave me a kind of inspiration and motivated me with my book. Also, I look at the people who are buried there and how they are known after life. Like they were known back when they were alive, and they're still being known, and their story and their life history is being retold. Joanna: I mean, you're still in your 20s, and I'm nearly 50, but— We share this idea around Memento Mori, “remember you will die.” By going to these places, it's almost inspiring—you mentioned the word inspiration—inspiring you on how to live your life. Leon: Yes, that's one thing from each place I've visited, while they are different, it still drives that determination in getting my book out there and getting these places known. There's so many simple memorials to massive tragedies. There's one in Barnsley, a memorial to a coal mine disaster, I believe it killed 361 people. I look at that and think of the Aberfan in Wales, that is an awful disaster as well, and that's a kind of well-known disaster. It tragically killed a number of children, and that's really well known, but I feel like this other one in Barnsley should just be as well-known as that one. Joanna: Yes, if people have seen The Crown, they show that Welsh tragedy on The Crown. I can't remember which series. I get what you mean, like some of these things are more famous than others. For example, Auschwitz, obviously that's not in the UK, but many people will have heard of that and the deaths that went on there. There were so many other camps, that was not like the only camp, but that seems to be what people think of. So as you say, it's remembering the past, but also helping us live in the future. So I did also want to ask, what reactions have you had around this? So do your family think you're weird? Do your friends think you're weird? What are the reactions of people who kn...
Transcribe →Self-Publishing A Second Edition Of A Non-Fiction Book With Gin Stephens
Nov 4, 202401:05:34Tap to summarizeHow do you approach writing a second edition of a non-fiction book? How does self-publishing compare to working with a traditional publisher? Can you build a viable business without active social media use? Gin Stephens shares her tips. In the intro, the end of Kindle Vella [Amazon]; Lessons from week one of the book launch for This is Strategy [Seth Godin]; Seahenge is out now on my store, and on pre-order elsewhere; ChatGPT launched Search [OpenAI]; How Generative AI Search Will Impact Book Discoverability in the Next Decade. Write and format stunning books with Atticus. Create professional print books and eBooks easily with the all-in-one book writing software. Try it out at Atticus.io This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn Gin Stephens is the New York Times bestselling author of Delay, Don't Deny, Fast. Feast. Repeat., Clean(ish), and other health-related nonfiction books. She's also a podcaster at Intermittent Fasting Stories. You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. Show Notes Pros and cons of publishing a second edition of a nonfiction book Tips for bringing a heavy subject alive Breaking through the noise when misinformation surrounds your subject Reasons for going the indie route after traditionally publishing The power of word of mouth marketing How a small paywall can create a more respectful community Social media's impact on mental health Creating an ecosystem — podcast, community, and books You can find Gin at GinStephens.com. Transcript of Interview with Gin Stephens Joanna: Gin Stephens is the New York Times bestselling author of Delay, Don't Deny, Fast. Feast. Repeat., Clean(ish), and other health-related nonfiction books. She's also a podcaster at Intermittent Fasting Stories. So welcome back to the show, Gin. Gin: It is so great to talk to you again. Joanna: Yes, it's been a few years [Gin's previous interview here]. Now, you have recently released the second edition of Delay, Don't Deny, and I completely get the pain of a subsequent edition. It's just a bit of a nightmare. So I wanted to start by asking you— Why did you feel like you wanted to do a second edition of that book instead of writing something new? Gin: Well, that is a great question. I have written new things since writing the original Delay, Don't Deny. This original book that I wrote in 2016, Delay, Don't Deny, and self-published, is just really the bedrock that everything else has been built upon. I've learned so much more about the topic since I wrote it in 2016, and this book just needed a refresh. It needed some love. I really didn't understand how some people love this one the most. I was speaking at an event a few years ago, and someone in the audience said, “Which of your books should we start with? Delay, Don't Deny or Fast. Feast. Repeat.?” Fast. Feast. Repeat. was a New York Times bestseller. It's comprehensive, it's thorough, it's thick. It's every question you could possibly ask about intermittent fasting. It's well referenced. So I said, “Of course start with Fast. Feast. Repeat.“ Then someone in the audience said, “Can I disagree?” I'm like, “Well, go ahead.” She said, “Delay, Don't Deny. I love that one the most.” That got the wheels turning in my head because ever since I moved towards traditional publishing, I hadn't self-published anything. So I thought, people love that original book. I never talked about it anymore, but it kept selling, and people kept buying it. It did need to be updated because some of the advice I did not necessarily agree with anymore. From 2016 to 2024, things are going to change. There were just some things that were out of date, so it deserved some love. You know what kept me from revising it sooner? The audiobook. I didn't want to rerecord the audiobook, and of course, you want them to match. Finally, I just bit the bullet. First I offered it to my publisher, and the amount that they wanted to give me for an advance was so itty bitty. I was like, well, forget that. I'll redo it myself. Joanna: That's interesting. I want to come back. So you said there Fast. Feast. Repeat. I've got these books, I've got several of your books, and Fast. Feast. Repeat., you said it's comprehensive, it's thick, it's well referenced. You're a scientist. You do a lot of research. You are very knowledgeable. Do you think that people don't want the heavily researched book, they just want the story-based book? Gin: Well, it depends on the person. There are people who resonate with each kind, and that's what I realized. I would like the one with all the references in there, definitely. I want to be able to look at them. I actually do that, by the way, when I read a book written by a scientist or a doctor. I'll turn to the reference section, especially if something doesn't sound right, I'm like let me look at that myself. I've actually found places where they did not actually represent the study the same way—after I read it—it's not what they said about it. I also want to correct, I am not a practicing research scientist. I have a master's degree in natural sciences and a doctorate in gifted education. At my root, I'm very much a teacher. I had to write a dissertation, I learned how to research, I learned how to share all of that research as a part of going through my doctoral program. So I just wanted to make that clear. So some people just want the basics, and that's what Delay, Don't Deny is for. So it really needed to be updated, like I said, because the people that preferred, you know, just tell me the quick part, give me the stories, they needed Delay, Don't Deny. Then I actually am now recommending everyone start with Delay, Don't Deny because it might be all you need, but if you want more, that's when it's time to turn to Fast. Feast. Repeat. I also think that once you've lived the lifestyle for a while, everything in Fast. Feast. Repeat. will click, if that makes sense. You'll understand it better, and you're ready to dig into the science more than maybe on day one. Joanna: Yes, I totally agree. I discovered you on the podcast years ago, and I still am IF. It's so funny though, I almost don't say I'm IF anymore because I never eat breakfast, or very occasionally, but mostly I start after lunch sometime and have sort of an 18:6 type of lifestyle, as you say. It's almost like I don't even consider ...
Transcribe →Writing Horror With Boris Bacic
Oct 28, 202401:04:34Tap to summarizeWhat are some of the key elements in writing horror? How can you be successful writing and self-publishing in the genre? With Boris Bacic. In the intro, ISBNs made easy [Self-publishing Advice]; Written Word Media’s 2024 author survey; Taylor Swift self-publishing [Morning Brew]; Thoughts on audiobooks [Seth Godin]; This is Strategy: Make Better Plans – Seth Godin; Plus, Orna Ross and I talk about our response to Google NotebookLM, while the AI hosts discuss indie author myths [Self-Publishing Advice Podcast]; Seahenge: A Short Story available now and on pre-order. This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn Boris Bacic is a bestselling horror author from Serbia, with more than 30 books and short stories. You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. Show Notes Unique platforms for publishing horror short stories Subgenres of horror and how they have evolved Catering to an English-speaking market Finding inspiration from personal experience and place Deciding whether an idea is best for a short story or full-length book Different channels to earn an income from short stories Why some books succeed in KU and others flop Considerations when writing a horror series Networking and community for horror writers You can find Boris at AuthorBorisBacic.com. Transcript of Interview with Boris Bacic Joanna: Boris Bacic is a bestselling horror author from Serbia, with more than 30 books and short stories. So welcome to the show, Boris. Boris: Thanks for having me here. Joanna: I'm excited to talk to you. So first up— Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing and publishing. Boris: I started writing when I was a kid. Back then, it was fantasy. This was before the era of computers and whatnot. I was writing in my notebook. I guess somewhere along the line, it just kind of morphed into horror. I didn't get into publishing until I was in my late 20s. I had started writing short stories for Creepypasta.com, for Reddit's NoSleep forum, and after about 20 or so unsuccessful stories, one of my stories went viral. This was a big thing for me because so many people wanted to collaborate. YouTube narrators, Creepypasta animators, and so on. So this was a big thing for me. Somewhere along the line, one of them had asked me, like, why don't I publish a book? I said, no, no, that's not for me. I'm not cut out to be a writer. After some time, after more successful stories, I said, okay, I'm going to take the plunge. I knew nothing about publishing, and after unsuccessful attempts to find agents and publishers, I ran into 20Booksto50K. This gave me a completely new perspective on self-publishing, because up until then, I had thought that self-published authors did not earn any money at all. So this was a new thing for me, and that's eventually how I got into publishing my novels. Right now, I have more than 30. Joanna: Wow. Okay, a few questions to come back on. First of all, explain to people what Creepypasta is. Because I think a lot of people won't know. Boris: So Creepypasta.com, this used to be very popular back in the day. This was a website where lots of scary short stories would be hosted. So anybody could write, anybody could post them there. If they were good enough, they would be approved. Eventually, a similar sub-reddit came out, which was NoSleep. This is exactly what it is, how it sounds. It is a forum where people can post short stories. This was very popular back in the day because so many YouTube narrators started adapting them into narrations, and they start adding creepy music over there. This was a very good way for aspiring authors, and even established authors, to reach new audiences. Joanna: I thought Creepypasta stories also had a sort of internet meme thing, in terms of the sort of tropes. Are there tropes specifically for these forums? Boris: There are definitely lots of tropes over there, and one of the popular ones that arose from there was the type of horror where there are rules you need to follow. It became so oversaturated with this after a while, that it's like if you enter a church, don't look over your shoulder. Don't enter after 3am and so on. So this became very popular. It was very scary back in the day, and so many stories arose from it. Even my first published anthology was exactly like that. A security guard, because I used to be a security guard, who is working in a paranormal place, and he needs to follow a set of rules. There are lots of these that are sort of outdated now, but I can see that even trad authors have started using some of the Creepypasta tropes. Joanna: You've said “back in the day” a couple of times. So is this not a viable place now? Is Reddit kind of—well, it's not done, is it? Is Reddit still somewhere that somebody starting out now might have a look at? Boris: Oh, absolutely. Reddit is an excellent place. Creepypasta, not so much. The last time I checked, it was just not the same. I can see that most of the interest is coming from NoSleep. We've even had a lot of aspiring authors, like me, who wrote short stories to Reddit, then they had them published into novels. I've even seen a few authors who actually got really big movie deals. So NoSleep, Reddit generally, and stuff like WattPad, these are very good platforms for that sort of thing. Joanna: Interesting. So let's just take a step back into horror in general. In fact, as we record this today, my folk horror novel, Blood Vintage, finishes on Kickstarter. I've had so many people—I mean, it's folk horror, which is a very small sub niche—but people say, “Oh, I never read horror.” Then I say, oh, well, it's more a sort of eerie sense of place with folklore. Then they're like, “Oh, okay. Well, that sounds interesting.” So I wondered if you'd come across this in terms of...
Transcribe →Scaling An Author Business With Rachel McLean
Oct 21, 202401:03:18Tap to summarizeHow do you successfully scale an author business? How do you delegate to your team as well as continue to research and write the books you love? With award-winning crime author, Rachel McLean. In the intro, new Kindle devices [Amazon]; new European markets for Spotify audiobooks [Spotify]; customisable audio with Google NotebookLM; Amazon Ads launches new AI tools for advertisers; Enhancing Creativity with AI Tools [ALLi]; My Lessons Learned from 10 Million Downloads of the show; and Blood Vintage Kickstarter wrap-up. Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, self-publishing with support, where you can get free formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Just go to www.draft2digital.com to get started. This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn Rachel McLean is the award-winning author of the Dorset Crime series, as well as other crime books, and has now sold over 2 million copies. You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. Show Notes Making the decision to scale your author business Hiring multiple freelancers with different skillsets Money and lifestyle as a source of motivation Writing with multiple co-authors and creating a small imprint How to write what readers want to read Moving your readers from KU to other platforms Selling audiobooks direct using Shopify and BookFunnel Using AI tools for location research Publishing videos on socials to humanize your brand You can find Rachel at RachelMcLean.com. Transcript of Interview with Rachel McLean Joanna: Rachel McLean is the award-winning author of the Dorset Crime series, as well as other crime books, and has now sold over 2 million copies. So welcome back to the show, Rachel. Rachel: Thank you for having me. Joanna: I'm excited to talk to you today. Now, you were last on the show in November 2022, and we talked about how you pivoted into crime fiction. So we're just going to jump straight into things today. You started out with your Dorset Crime series, but you now have five series in total, and you work with multiple authors under your imprint, Ackroyd Publishing. How has your business changed over the last few years? Rachel: In some ways it hasn't changed that much, and in other ways, it's changed massively. So the core of my business, which is about writing crime books that readers want to read, I write in a very similar style. Obviously, my craft has developed over that time. I'm really like doubling down on engaging with readers, I see that as actually, after the writing, my most important job because that's the thing that I can do, and my team can't do for me. So that hasn't really changed, apart from the fact that it is scaled because I've got so many more readers now. In the sort of day-to-day management of my business, that has changed hugely. I've now got a team of seven people who work for me. They're all freelance. They each work a couple of days a week, and they do various roles. I've got a publishing and production team, and they project manage all the books, do the cover design, pull all the files together, manage the editorial and so forth. Then I've got a marketing team who help me run my shop and do advertising and data for me. I've got somebody who liaises with bookshops. I've got somebody who does AV work for me. I've also got a number of co-authors who I work with now. A lot of my books are co-authored with people who I've known for years and who I've been working with as part of my writing group for years. That enables me to sort of manage a bigger business, which takes up more of my time, while still producing more books now than I was able to produce without them. Also, it's really good fun, particularly on the creative side when you're generating ideas for a new book or a new series, I get to work with other people. So we'll go for a trip to the location that the book's going to be in, and we'll walk around, and we'll sit in cafes and things. We'll chat about what's going to be in the book, and we'll come up with ideas. It's really enjoyable. Joanna: Oh, so many follow up questions. The first one I have is—and this is quite a personal thing for me, and also people listening—because I feel like what you have done is you have gone from being an author to essentially being the CEO of a much bigger business. Like you said, you have seven people you're co-writing. So at some point, you made the decision, I am going to scale the size of my business and the income, obviously. You decided that there was something you wanted to do around running a bigger publishing company. How did you make the decision to scale your business? Obviously, it is a much bigger deal than, like me, I have not made that choice. It's something I come up against over and over again, and I always step back from. It's like I actually don't want a bigger business. So what was that moment, so other people listening might be able to figure that out for themselves? Rachel: Yes, it's interesting because I always thought I didn't want a bigger business and I didn't want to manage people. I think that's because my experience of managing people in the past had been in huge organizations. I worked for government agencies and all sorts where it was very process driven. You had to do performance management on a certain day, and you had to manage people in a certain way, and you and they didn't really have all that much freedom over what you did. Whereas I'm finding that managing people within my own business is very different because A, I get to recruit them, and I get to find people who are a really good fit for my business and have got the skills that I need and skills often that I don't have. Then B, I get to work with them in a way that works for us, and it's really flexible because we're such a small business. It's not like one person has a particular job title and th...
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