Episode Summary: Building A Business Ecosystem Around Non-Fiction Books With Michael Bungay Stanier
Podcast Information:
- Title: The Creative Penn Podcast For Writers
- Host/Author: Joanna Penn
- Episode: 784
- Release Date: December 9, 2024
- Guest: Michael Bungay Stanier
Introduction
In episode 784 of The Creative Penn Podcast For Writers, host Joanna Penn engages in a comprehensive discussion with Michael Bungay Stanier about constructing a robust business ecosystem centered around non-fiction books. The conversation delves into strategies for scaling a business through multiple income streams derived from book publishing, effective delegation, and future planning as the literary world evolves.
Michael Bungay Stanier’s Journey into Writing and Publishing
Michael begins by sharing his early inspirations, tracing his passion for writing back to his grandmother, who was a prolific writer, and his father, a great storyteller. This foundation cultivated his love for stories and writing, leading him into the world of publishing.
Notable Quote:
"The seed was planted by having a grandmother who was a writer... Her pen name was Culex, which is Latin for mosquito, which I love."
[16:28] Michael Bungay Stanier
Despite initial setbacks in self-publishing, Michael persisted, eventually self-publishing his first book, "Get Unstuck and Get Going," around 2006. His perseverance paid off when a friend introduced his work to Workman, a New York publishing house, leading to broader distribution.
Transition to Hybrid Publishing
Michael's breakthrough came with the publication of "The Coaching Habit" in 2016 through a hybrid publishing model with Page Two. After multiple rejections from traditional publishers, he self-published, leading to substantial sales. This model allowed him greater control and higher royalty rates, essential for building his business ecosystem.
Notable Quote:
"Hybrid publishing gives me much more control over my book without me needing to worry about all the minutiae... and gives me freedom to distribute my books out in the world in a way that can generate bigger returns through my speaking or through my training or through other stuff that I do well."
[25:06] Michael Bungay Stanier
Building a Multi-Faceted Business Ecosystem
Michael outlines how he has transformed his books into a central hub for various revenue streams, creating an interconnected business ecosystem. His approach includes:
- Books: Core products that introduce his concepts.
- Online Courses & Training: Deeper dives into the material presented in his books.
- Memberships & Communities: For ongoing support and engagement, such as his membership group, The Conspiracy, which helps members achieve their goals through structured support.
- Professional Speaking: High-ticket keynote speaking engagements that provide significant income while reinforcing his brand.
- IP Licensing: Licensing content from his books to large corporations like Microsoft and Salesforce, further diversifying income.
Notable Quote:
"Your name is the thing that is, I want to say famous. Your name is what people recognize. And then there's all these other things."
[25:31] Michael Bungay Stanier
Effective Delegation and Scaling
A critical aspect of Michael's business success is his ability to delegate effectively. He emphasizes the importance of identifying tasks that can be handed off and trusting his team to execute them.
Key Strategies:
-
Decision-Making Framework: Michael utilizes a decision hierarchy inspired by Susan Scott's Fierce Conversations:
- Twig Decisions: Minor decisions that don’t require his input.
- Branch Decisions: Decisions that he is informed about post-action.
- Trunk Decisions: Significant decisions to discuss before execution.
- Root Decisions: Major strategic choices reserved for his discretion.
Notable Quote:
"Twig decisions are decisions that I will never hear of, just never know about. It's just not in my future life will I ever come across what that conversation was about."
[30:07] Michael Bungay Stanier -
Collaborative Standards Setting: Michael advocates for open conversations with team members about working preferences and expectations, ensuring clear communication and alignment.
Notable Quote:
"Let me tell you the best experience I've had when I'm working with somebody like you... What's the worst experience that we've had? And what will we do when things get broken?"
[37:29] Michael Bungay Stanier -
Continuous Feedback: By providing immediate and constructive feedback, Michael ensures that his team can adjust and improve processes efficiently.
Notable Quote:
"When something isn't quite as I want it to be with Claudine, I don't hoard it. I don't linger over it. I just ping her a quick note going, this. I prefer it to be A, not B, be. And she's like, cool, got it."
[38:53] Michael Bungay Stanier
Expanding the Ecosystem: Premium Products and Future Projects
Michael is expanding his product line with the introduction of a premium journal, "Do Something That Matters Journal," slated for release in 2025. This journal is designed to complement his book "How to Begin," offering structured daily and weekly prompts to aid personal development and goal setting.
Notable Quote:
"This is part of that ecosystem. So this comes down to understanding what your business and your business ecosystem is."
[39:22] Michael Bungay Stanier
He also highlights the importance of high-quality production in differentiating his journals in a market saturated with low-quality options. By investing in superior materials and design, Michael ensures that his products enhance his brand's reputation for excellence.
Advice for Aspiring Authors and Creators
Towards the end of the interview, Michael offers valuable advice for those considering a pivot or looking to build their own business ecosystems:
-
Clarify Your Desires:
- Question: "What do I want?"
[47:01] Michael Bungay Stanier - Spending time understanding your true desires helps ground your actions and decisions.
- Question: "What do I want?"
-
Understand Sacrifices:
- Question: "If I'm going to say yes to this, what must I say no to?"
- Recognizing what you need to forgo ensures that your commitments are meaningful and sustainable.
-
Find a Supportive Community:
- Engaging with others who share your goals provides motivation and accountability, making the journey less isolating.
Notable Quote:
"It's an existential question. It's hard to wrestle with existential questions just by yourself. So go find somebody else to walk the path with."
[49:45] Michael Bungay Stanier
Closing Thoughts and Future Episodes
Joanna wraps up the episode by encouraging listeners to consider adopting a business ecosystem approach to their writing endeavors. She also teases future content, including her upcoming workshop in Bath and the next episode featuring Pulitzer Prize-winning writer Charles Duhigg.
Community Engagement: Joanna emphasizes the importance of listener interaction, urging them to leave comments, connect on social media, and support her Patreon community for exclusive content and deeper engagement.
Key Takeaways:
- Building an Ecosystem: Centralize your books as gateways to various income streams, including courses, memberships, speaking engagements, and licensing.
- Effective Delegation: Implement structured decision-making frameworks and open communication to scale your business without losing control.
- Quality Products: Invest in high-quality supplementary products to enhance your brand and provide additional value to your audience.
- Personal Growth: Regularly assess your desires, make conscious sacrifices, and seek community support to navigate professional pivots and personal development.
Resources Mentioned:
- Michael Bungay Stanier’s Books:
- The Coaching Habit
- The Advice Trap
- How to Begin
- How to Work With Almost Anyone
- Hybrid Publisher: Page Two (page2publishing.com)
- Journal: Do Something That Matters Journal (Available through Page Two and Amazon)
For more insights and detailed strategies on writing, publishing, and building a creative business, tune into The Creative Penn Podcast For Writers and explore the valuable resources available at thecreativepenn.com.