Special Editions, Seasonal Podcasts, and the Art of Low-Key Book Marketing with Sara Rosett

Summary

The Creative Penn Podcast For Writers – Episode 858

Special Editions, Seasonal Podcasts, and the Art of Low-Key Book Marketing with Sara Rosett

Host: Joanna Penn
Guest: Sara Rosett
Date: April 13, 2026
Theme: Writing Craft and Creative Business, focusing on sustainable, low-key book marketing for introverted indie authors

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Joanna Penn welcomes back author and podcaster Sara Rosett for a candid discussion about sustainable, non-hype book marketing strategies—particularly those that don’t rely on social media or “pushy” tactics. Both Joanna and Sara, self-identified introverts, share their evolving approaches to marketing, direct sales, special editions, running seasonal podcasts, selling to libraries, and maintaining a long-term, low-stress creative life. The episode is rich with practical insights, encouragement, and honesty about what works for them and why.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sara Rosett’s Author Business Updates

[22:06-23:11]

• Sara has shifted from launching books exclusively through retailers to embracing direct sales via a Shopify store and running Kickstarter campaigns.
• She continues her podcasting work, running “Wish I’d Known Then” with Jamie Albright and her own “Mystery Books” podcast, the latter produced in short, yearly seasonal bursts.
• Sara is writing slightly less nonfiction, focusing on fiction, with a particular love for her 1920s mystery series.

2. Embracing Seasonal & Episodic Podcasting

[23:33-24:43]

• Sara’s “Mystery Books” podcast is released in yearly short seasons (~5–10 episodes) and attracts a consistent audience despite not being weekly.
• Minimal ongoing effort: mainly a few Pinterest pins to promote episodes.
• “It’s the kind of low-key marketing that’s low threshold—but it does work. If your readers are looking for stuff to listen to about your topic, it can be a good long-tail strategy.” (Sara, 24:20)

3. The Philosophy of Low-Key, Non-"Hype" Marketing

[24:43-26:11]

• Joanna and Sara agree they both avoid aggressive “hypey” marketing, favoring attraction and intuitive content marketing instead.
• Sara shares that traditional promotional tactics (like street teams) never felt right for her genre or audience.
• Instead, her strategy centers on newsletters (including a curated new-release newsletter for historical mystery fans), small promo sites, BookFunnel group giveaways, and outreach to libraries.

Notable Quote:

"I've searched for ways that I can find readers but that don't rely on ads...I focus on my newsletters. That's just what fits with my personality."
– Sara Rosett [25:19]

4. Selling Direct & Marketing to Libraries

[27:23-30:11]

• Sara has proactively sold to libraries, crafting personalized emails with downloadable PDFs listing her series and ISBNs, highlighting large print hardbacks and case laminate editions that libraries prefer.
• “I got into [large print] when you started talking about it a couple of years ago, and so I have large print case laminate books that libraries like.” (Sara, 27:13)

Library Outreach Process

1. Obtain a contact list (used Sisters in Crime member resources)
2. Write local, friendly emails with direct links to book details and ISBNs
3. Point librarians to Ingram for easy ordering
4. Assistants help batch and rotate communications to avoid being overwhelmed

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5. Project-Based, Batch Approach to Marketing

[31:20-33:50]

• Both Joanna and Sara prefer to focus on projects (writing, marketing bursts, special editions, Kickstarter launches) in dedicated blocks of time, rather than a daily multitasking grind.
• "I do things in phases...I like doing a special edition and then being done with that, then going back to writing. I don’t want to do [promo] every day." (Sara, 32:11)

6. Minimal Social Media

[35:03-37:38]

• Sara is nearly off social media, save for light Pinterest and occasional Instagram posts for discoverability. She no longer checks Facebook groups and now prefers podcasts as her learning source.
• Joanna echoes the sentiment—she's sporadic with Instagram, doesn’t check direct messages, and prefers readers subscribe to newsletters for genuine updates.
• “I put up a post on Facebook saying, I’m not going to be here much anymore—if you’re looking for me, sign up for my newsletter.” (Sara, 36:31)

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7. Special Editions and the “Tactile” Side of Book Creation

[37:38-41:06]

• Sara delights in making special editions: case laminate hardbacks, illustrated endpages, “letters from the character” (a serialized story via mail), maps, character art, and more.
• She surveys readers before production, balancing “bells and whistles” with actual reader interest.
• “I love doing the end pages, the ribbon, finding photos from the time—it's just fun and creative in a different way.” (Sara, 39:14)
• Con: Time commitment is always more than you expect—plan for “three to five times” more than your estimate.

Notable Quote:

“The challenge is, the more special it is, the longer the ramp to get it done. But it's also fun, and you just can't do that on Amazon.”
– Sara Rosett [40:00]

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8. Launching via Shopify vs. Kickstarter

[42:17-45:25]

• Sara has launched special editions both on Kickstarter and Shopify, sharing pros and cons:
  • Kickstarter: Bigger discovery/opportunity, but high time and pressure, especially with fulfillment.
  • Shopify store: Lighter on time and stress, allows “phased” launches and trains readers to buy direct, but may earn less up front.
• Recent direct store launches for her spin-off series and serialized letters have reduced her time commitment, sometimes using digital signatures for efficiency.

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9. Revenue and Focus Shift

[46:12-48:06]

• Sara’s focus has shifted from retailer-first (Amazon, Kobo, Audible, etc.) launches to making her own store the “home base” for special/unique editions, bundles, and offers.
• She continues to list all formats widely but now sends her marketing traffic to her store as the main place for news, launches, and extra content.

10. The Joy—and Limits—of Bundles

[53:02-54:52]

• Sara offers bundled books (ebook, audiobook, paperback) on her direct store and via promotions on platforms like Kobo, finding they appeal to both bargain-hunters and committed fans.
• “If I can get a BookBub, I pitch a bundle. It seems they like them, and readers do too—you get the whole series together, don't have to find the order, just read them straight through.” (Sara, 54:33)

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11. Adapting and Experimenting with New Formats

[55:51-59:39]

• Sara’s looking at trends from other industries: letter subscriptions, merch, translations, special edges on books.
• Notably fascinated by Korean dramas, short and vertical storytelling trends, and the creative potential of short video or interactive narrative.
• She finds these ideas through “quirky media” consumption and a general curiosity (“Oh, I wonder if I could do that?”).
• Joanna and Sara both marvel at the cross-cultural influence, discussing possibilities like 1920s Korean settings or traveling series.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Separating from Your Work:
  “Once it's out in the world, [your book] is separate from us, and people respond to it as they will. We can't control that.”
  — Joanna Penn

• On the Project Approach:
  "You can focus for two weeks or a month or whatever, doing a Kickstarter or whatever, and then we're done, and then we move on."
  — Sara Rosett [33:38]

• On Owning Your Business:
  “We want to be enjoying what we're doing—we don't want it to be a slog.”
  — Sara Rosett [49:08]

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Important Timestamps

• [21:45] — Sara Rosett joins, gives business update
• [23:33] — Episodic, seasonal podcasting for long-tail audience growth
• [25:19] — Why low-key marketing fits introverts and “information givers”
• [27:23-30:11] — Selling direct to libraries with targeted outreach and large print editions
• [32:11] — Project-batching approach to marketing and energy management
• [35:09-37:38] — Withdrawing from social media and nurturing newsletter subscribers
• [37:38] — Creative fun (and pitfalls) of special editions, character letters, and signed bundles
• [42:17] — Shopify store vs. Kickstarter: what works and why
• [46:12] — Revenue shifting toward direct sales and why
• [53:02-54:33] — Power of bundles for both direct and promotional sales
• [55:51] — Inspiration from other industries, letter subscriptions, and short video storytelling

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Resources & Recommendations

• Joanna’s author resources and backlist: thecreativepenn.com
• Sara’s website: sararosett.com
• Sara’s Shopify store for special editions: sararosettbooks.com
• Podcast: Wish I’d Known Then
• Books mentioned:
  • Dear Writer, You Still Need to Quit by Becca Syme
  • On Writing by Stephen King
  • Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert

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Episode Takeaways

• Marketing can (and should) be tailored to your energy, genre, and readers—“hype” is not a prerequisite for success.
• Direct sales and unique packages/special editions are not only viable, but creatively rewarding and can foster a closer reader relationship.
• Project batching, seasonal work, and focused sprints keep both marketing and creativity sustainable over the long run.
• Experimenting with formats—letters, bundles, visual media—keeps the writing/publishing journey fresh, especially for multi-passionate indie authors with long careers.

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For more inspiration or to comment on this episode, visit thecreativepenn.com or subscribe to Sara Rosett’s newsletters and podcasts.

Happy writing!

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Creative Penn Podcast. I'm Joanna Penn, thriller author and creative entrepreneur, bringing you interviews, inspiration and information on writing, craft and creative business. You can find the episode show notes, your free author blueprint and lots [e-mail] and that's Pen with a double n. And here's the show hello creatives, I'm Johanna Penn and this is episode number 858 of the podcast and it is Saturday 11th April 2026. As I record this in today's show I'm talking to Sarah Rosette about low key book marketing without using social media, special editions, seasonal podcasting, selling direct reaching libraries and much more. And Sarah and I are friends so it's a relaxed conversation about how we both do things as two quite reserved int authors. So that's coming up in the interview section in Writing and Publishing. Well, I'm currently reading Becca Symes new book Dear writer, you still need to quit, which I backed on Kickstarter to get the book early and it is great, as are all her books and there's quite a few in the Quit series now if you want to start with one of the others. But this sentence stood out for me and I wanted to talk about it for a little bit. The level of uncertainty in the industry today is only superseded by the level of uncertainty in the world. When that happens, one of the most important things we can know about ourselves is how to find certainty. And I'm sure that you are feeling this level of uncertainty in many ways as well. It's this kind of unsettling feeling that you think everything's going to change. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But it certainly feels uncertain. And wherever you are in the world, and whatever your political or religious persuasion or your opin of AI various topics, it is an uncertain time. So I was thinking about what I do when I start to spiral. And just like everyone else and with recent events, I have been waking up and checking the news first thing to see what happened overnight because of the time differences and all that. And that's what I did in the pandemic and that just really doesn't help. So I know I need to fix that behavior. And as that behavior is in my control, like we control our own behavior, I can't control what's happening out there, but I can control how I feel and what I can do and what you can do. So I thought this might be useful. So the very first thing is staying in touch with my physical self and the physical world I am a human, I have a body. And I can walk outside in nature. I can walk by the canal, look at the blue bells. And the cherry blossom is out here, and the apple blossom. And listen to the bird song and notice the end of the daffodil season and the swan is on her nest. And so the cygnets will be here soon and the ducklings. And the cycle has turned again, as it does every year, no matter what happens in the wider world. The sun comes up, the world keeps turning. And I will soon have petunias and begonias in all kinds of colors in the garden. And I can lift weights, I can lift heavy objects and put them down again, which is what we say when we're going weightlifting. And I can cuddle Jonathan and the cats and cook and basically all the things we do that are normal life things, the little repeatable things that bring joy, a walk and a cup of coffee, which is what we did this morning. That is a good morning. And this kind of embodiment, this kind of, you know, here is my body in the world, this is a sort of antidote to abstraction, this everything is awful vibe which you find all over the media. But if we pay attention to the little things in our control, it can change how we feel. So I wanted to just point this out today and encourage you to note down the little joys, the things that are certain in your life, at least for now, the things that are in your control. That is not geopolitics, that is not the publishing industry, that is not developments in AI. So maybe let that go for at least a day. You can also find some certainty in your own writing practice. You can control sitting down at the desk to write or going for a walk and dictating some words or writing in your journal, which I did yesterday, and it helps center me. I don't journal every day. I kind of. I binge journal in the same way I binge write. And yesterday I went and sat and journaled. And when I journal, I think about my family and I think about my work and I think about everything that I'm doing and how I feel. I write a lot of lists when I journal, but it makes me feel more, I guess, more in control. I can journal things, doesn't necessarily change them, but I guess you get what I'm saying. I can't control how successful my book might be or how people review it or whatever, but I can put some words on the page. That is definitely in my control. Of course, reading self help books also is a good idea. Hence why I decided to finally pick up Becca's book, which I've had for, I guess, a few weeks now. And that's useful. I have the successful author mindset if you fancy that. Becca has lots more books there. And I should say her Quit series is not about quitting writing. Unless it is, of course, it's more about quitting the things that don't serve you, like doom scrolling first thing in the morning. And then on more specifics around mindset over on the Wish I'd Known Then podcast with co host Sarah Rosette, who is coming up in today's interview, and also Jamie Albright. So I did want to mention their show as they have an episode about building resilience and the creative lies that writers tell themselves with book coach Catherine Collette. And there's lots of interesting nuggets in the interview. And I actually love the term creative lies because making stuff up for a living is kind of creative lying. But yes, they go into the more mindset side of things. So the first one, and I guess this is kind of related to what I was saying, but the problem with tying your sense of self to external milestones. So I am only a successful writer if I get an agent or a book deal or a certain number of reviews or I make a certain amount of money. And this applies to our art in general. And the answer, of course, is focusing on what writing does for us. It helps us figure out the world. It helps us through a difficult situation. It helps us transform into a new mindset, into a new person, rather than the results from it. And I was thinking about this around my master's degree. Regular listeners will have heard about this. So I'm doing a master's in death, religion and culture. And it's just been really interesting. And there's absolutely no external reason for me to do this master's. It's not going to help my career. It's not going to give me anything more in that kind of external sense. No one's going to pay me anymore because I have it. But it's more about what I've learned in the process of the course, the thinking that has gone into my essays, how I've transformed some of my opinions, my thoughts around death and God and theology and cultural aspects, where these things intersect. And for sure I'll get like another master's degree. But that isn't the point. I have a master's degree in theology, but it's not about that. It's not about the external validation of getting A qualification. It's about the transformation of the journey. And of course, with a book, when you finish it, there may well be some sales, some reviews, maybe some other commercial, external things. But tying the value of that to the value of the book to you is a mistake, because the book will have so much value to you because of your transformation in writing it. And this also links to the issue of other people's opinions about the book. So Jamie Albright on the the podcast Wish I'd Known, then talks about the struggle she's had around her next book, which is based around the final months of her sister's life. Wondering if people don't like the book, that means they don't like her dead sister. And that is. I mean, that just hits hard, right? That hits really hard. And Jamie's been just talking about this for several years now, which I really admire. I think sharing grief is just so difficult. But coming back to the particular point, this is really difficult for memoir writers. And I've had this myself, I guess, with my book pilgrimage. You know when people say, oh, well, I'm not interested in that book, or why would you even write about that? And I'm like, well, it's really important to me, and my thoughts in that book are really personal. And if you hate that book or you just think it's pointless, do you think I'm pointless? So I can. I can absolutely relate to this feeling of, well, if you don't like the book, there's some kind of negative feeling towards me, but that, of course, that's not true. We have to separate ourselves from our books. Once it's out in the world, it is separate from us, and people respond to it as they will. We can't control that. And again, it comes down to certainty. There is no certainty. When you put your book into the world, people will judge you. I have fear of judgment. It's one of my big issues. And in fact, if you read the successful author mindset, there's a chapter on that. But I struggle with it. We all do. But, yes, we have to focus on what we can do, which is keep writing, even if it's just for us. Other things in the interview, the problem of the myth of innate identifiable talent. So thinking that you have to have a talent for writing or handing over early manuscripts to coaches or peers or editors, expecting that some expert will be able to say if they have it, like they have a talent or if the book is publishable, and that this kind of external validation, particularly early on, can be a trap. And you can work to become a writer. We all need writing practice. We all need help and editors. We need to read, we need to keep going. I mean, no one thinks, oh, you wake up and you can play the violin or you can play anything. I mean, you need practice. The same with writing. And in fact, I'll quote Stephen King here from his wonderful book on writing. I'm sure you've read it. If you haven't, definitely put it on your list. But one of the quotes I like is he says, talent is cheaper than table salt. What separates the talented individual from the successful one is a lot of hard work. So, yes, you can work to become a writer. Being born for it, I think is a myth. And finally, this sort of pressure on one book, which can make everything very stressful. Whereas thinking about one book or your first book as part of a body of work across a lifetime can be really freeing. It takes the pressure off. One of the many things I have on my wall is I have lots of signs and quotes and things. And one is create a body of work I'm proud of. Create a body of work I'm proud of. And that helps me keep things in perspective. Of course, I have behind me measure your life by what you create. And the point is for me to keep creating. So Bones of the Deep is my next book. But as much as I love the book right now, I know that the cycle will turn and I will have more ideas again and I will love the next book and I'll move on. Because Bones of the Deep is not my only book. It won't be my only book. I have lots of them. And yeah, I think the point is creating and creating a body of work and being a creator is. It's an active verb. I am creating. Create things. It's not just a thinking about it. And that longer term perspective is so freeing. It helps with income and marketing. You can reach readers one at a time. You can build your email list slowly, you can build your body of work slowly. You can do other things to make money and not put so much pressure on your art. As Elizabeth Gilbert says in Big Magic, another fantastic book. Lots of book recommendations today, so lots more. In that interview over on the Wish I'd Known then podcast an episode on building resilience, brilliance and creative lies. In personal news, it is one week until my Kickstarter launches for Bones of the Deep. And this week I made the book trailer, which is, I really enjoy making book trailers, but boy, is it a lot of work. As I'll mention in the interviews I talk about it with Sarah. It is on my YouTube channel @jfpenauthor if you want to go and have a look and will of course be part of the Kickstarter campaign and the marketing. And yes, I will be doing a couple of weeks of a bit more hardcore marketing. But what I like about doing Kickstarters is it's a sort of focus period and then you can relax again. So that's my plan and there are lots of AI video tools, but I personally still love midjourney so I love making still images. So I make my still images on midjourney and then I animate them there and then I edit in canva. I also now for the second time, the last time I did a book trailer I used 11 labs and I used it again. Really fun process. Making music with 11 labs and book trailers have a particular kind. Well, especially for thriller sellers. They have quite a specific way of doing things, so I really enjoyed doing that. I recorded a video about the process which I'll share with my patrons and I have lots of extra images and video snippets and things that I will use in my marketing. So this week I'll be scheduling all that planning the launch from the 20th of April. You can follow the campaign at jfpen.com forward/bones. There'll be a discovery writing webinar and some consulting and all of that kind of thing. It and on my masters I finished my dissertation and outline and selective critical bibliography and submitted that the title is now Digital Consent, Commerce and the Exploitation of Authors in the Digital Afterlife Industry. That may change again. But yes, this is all about our digital afterlives really. Just so interesting. And one more essay to go and then I'm just focused on the dissertation. So I'm sort of ticking things off at the moment and I will share that in some way. Obviously not the finished piece because it'll be an academic essay which is just not very shareable. But I will do some kind of special podcast episode or a discussion. It is an important area for estate management which is rarely addressed, but I think will become more and more important as the AI tools become more powerful. So thanks for your emails and comments and photos this week. An email from Roxy the Cattle Dog made me smile. You've probably heard from plenty of writers over the years, but perhaps not too many dogs. Your episod episode gave us some genuinely useful things to think about and I even paused an important nap to pay attention. My only complaint is that sometimes my human listens to your podcast on walks with headphones. Given the amount of supervision I provide around here, this feels unfair. Anyway, thank you. I really enjoyed the episode so that is fantastic. I love a fictional email from Roxy the cattle dog. Brilliant. Brian Johnson emailed Said thank you for the recent episode on editing. I've written more in the last few years and have projects coming due. I used a local developmental editor for the first time in writing a new genre and have enjoyed the experience. I needed to hear that the novel will never be perfect. Yes, that is a true thing there at some point you just have to decide it's finished. Also, Brian said the most interesting church I found was in Odin, Kansas. And yes I stopped for the name. I don't do a lot of graveyard photos, but I do have storm chasing photos and shared some of those so that is very cool. I will one day write a novel with storm chasers. If you read my JFPEN books you'll know there's always storms. Not maybe not always, but quite a lot. I love a good storm. And yes, Bones of the Deep has a storm. Death Valley has a storm. Yeah, lots of my books have storms so I appreciated the storm chasing and then Rose so that was a positive experience for Brian. But Rose said, thank you for your informative post. I wish I had read it before finishing my book. And yes, there's always a transcript on thecreativepenn.com if you want to read the episode. Also says as far as finding an editor, I have had terrible experiences. Both editors I've used have been recommended, but the first said she was not interested in my story, but if I wanted to completely change the focus she would be willing to work with me. It was a no on both sides and the editor who did edit my book did a lot of what I call nitpicking but really missed the boat on major issues. So I'm sorry there Rose, that you had a bad experience and and I think both of these things are common. You can have a good time with an editor and a bad time and it is a bit like dating. You need to find someone who gets you gets your voice and you both like working together and that can take time. Kristin Taytor is my editor now. She's maybe my fourth editor over the years and as you become a better writer as well, you need a different kind of edit. There are authors who say they don't need editors anymore, they don't want to work with editors. But I personally never regret working with Kristen. I always learn something. My book is a better product for it. So if you've had bad experience with editors, then I would say at least consider trying to find a different one because you can find good editors and I've found working with professional editors a great investment in my author career and in my writing craft. So yes, maybe persist if you have not found someone you enjoy working with yet. Okay, so please leave a comment on the podcast Show Notes atthecreative pen.com or on the YouTube channel. You can email me, send me pictures of where you're listening, or your favourite cemetery or churchyard. Joannathecreativepen.com I love to hear from you. It makes this more of a conversation. And also just to say I've had a few emails again this week with more scam emails that do not come from that email. If you get an email from someone who says they're Joanna Pen and they are not using joannathecreativepen.com then it's not me. So I'm sorry about that. If you do that get that kind of scammy email. And yeah, remember that there are a lot of these around at the moment from fake agents and fake lots of people. So yes, even if they use my photo and they say they're me, they're not me. JoannaTheCreativePenn.com is my email. So Today's show is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, the self publishing platform built for authors by authors. KWL is dedicated to empowering your indie career and helping you connect with readers worldwide. Ready to amplify your book's reach and boost sales, Kobo Writing Life offers a powerful suite of promotional tools designed to put your books directly in front of eager readers, leverage strategic percent off sales, buy more, save more bundles, and prime homepage placements to drive discovery. On a personal note, I go into KWL every few weeks and apply for every promotion I can. I won't get all of them, but I get some of them. And Sarah and I talk about this in the interview today. And in fact this putting this ad slot in reminded me to go in and do it. And I did just apply for some more promos. They actually have a library promo that I'm going to submit to, which fits with something Sarah talks about in the show. So this is not something you do once and it's forever. They put up new promos every month and we also talk about how bundles do well in Kobo promotions and I just put a bundle promo in as well. They also have opportunities for books in translation and they have partnerships with many independent stores in different countries. So if you want to go wide with translation? Definitely. Check out Kobo Start promoting on kobo [e-mail] kwl that is a landing page with all my books on Kobo in ebook and audio and also useful episodes of the Kobo Writing Life podcast which you can listen to wherever you're listening to this. This type of corporate sponsorship pays for the hosting, transcription and editing, but my time is sponsored by my [e-mail] thecreativepenny thanks to the 8 new patrons who've joined this week and thanks to everyone who's been supporting for months and years. If you join the community, you get access to all my backlist videos and audio covering writing, craft, author, business and AI tutorials. Last week I shared a video behind the scenes of my Kickstarter campaign talking about how to set it all up and the various elements that go into it. The Patreon is a monthly subscription, the equivalent of buying me a black coffee a month or a couple of coffees if you're feeling generous. So if you get value from the show and you want more, come on over and join us at patreon.com P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com TheCreativePen Right, let's get into the interview. Sarah Rosette is the USA Today best selling author of over 30 books across 1920s mysteries, cosy mysteries and travel mysteries as well as non fiction for authors efforts. She's also the co host of the fantastic Wish I'd Known Then podcast. So welcome back to the show Sarah

[B]

Hi Joanna, thanks for having me. It's great to be back.

[A]

It is great to have you back and you were last on the show five years ago in around February 2021 and we talked about writing a series and you have a great book on that. But first up, give us an update. What does your author business look like right now and what are you up to with your writing? Writing?

[B]

Well, it's changed a lot. I sat down to think about this and I thought yes, I have gotten into direct sales. I've done Kickstarters, I have a Shopify store now. I've really shifted from releasing first on the retailers. I don't really do that anymore. I've done some special editions, some physical things. I'm sure we'll talk about those later. Still doing the podcast though with Jamie the Wish I'd Known Them podcast. We still doing that and I also have kept Up Mystery Books podcast, which is sort of an episodic podcast that comes out in seasons, it's. I do a short season and do about one a year. So I keep doing that. Writing some nonfiction, not much. Did the Trope book with Jennifer Hilt for mystery and thriller. And yeah, writing wise I've created a spinoff, a short spinoff in the 1920s series. I'm still, still loving the 1920s timeline, but slowed down a little bit on the releases. So yeah, it's you know, busy. Busy but good.

[A]

Yeah, busy but good. Right. Well, we're going to get into all of those things. Although I must say I had forgotten about your mystery books podcast and going to seasonal. I mean I also had my second podcast, Books and Travel which is also now on a kind of hiatus. But going to a seasonal approach is actually really interesting. Do you find that, that, that listeners come back to that podcast?

[B]

Yes, and it surprises me because I've always thought you have to be weekly with a podcast to gain any traction at all. Which I think is the best way to do it. You can build an audience quickly then. But I just knew I couldn't sustain that. So I, when I set out, I started out with maybe seven to 10 episodes and I did them each. Each year has had a season and I do five to 10 episodes and readers find it and I have, you know, highlighted specific books. I think maybe they're searching for a podcast about the Thursday Murder Club or something like that and so they find it that way. And I get downloads, just steady downloads, you know, throughout the year. And I don't do much. I do send Pinterest pins for that and that's about all I do. I mean this is like one of those things we were talking about. It's like the kind of low key marketing that's kind of low threshold. But it does work. And I think it's just if you can find, if your readers are looking for stuff to listen to about your, about the topic you write about, it could be a good way to do some low cost kind of long tail marketing. But yeah, I love it. I keep doing it because I love it.

[A]

Yeah, well that's great. And as you mentioned, I really wanted to talk to you about this sort of low key non hyp marketing as we've met in person a number of times and I think we're quite similar. We're quite quiet, we're quite reserved and we're quite low key. I mean I just put content out and yes, I do some paid ads, whatever, but I just don't find the hypey marketing something I want to do. I Like the attraction marketing. And I feel like I do in kind of intuitive marketing. So I wonder if you could maybe talk about that. Like how does your low key marketing fit with your. Your personality?

[B]

Well, I did try some of the. More I don't know what you'd call it, more like sort of promotional marketing. I don't know how to describe it but like I tried to have a street team back when I heard authors talking about that. I thought, oh, I'll do a street team. And that doesn't really match with my readers and my genre or that's just not a thing that happens a lot there. So I kind of backed off of that. And I've tried ads, not really interested in those. I'm not really good at them. I don't and I don't really want to get good at them. So I've searched for the ways that I can find readers but that doesn't rely on ads. So I just tried to do things. I've really focused on my newsletter and I have two of those. I have a main one that goes out to my readers who sign up in the back of the book and then I have a new release in Historical mysteries newsletter that goes out about twice a month most of the time. And that's just curation. I'm just saying, hey, these are the new books that are out. So I feel like those are easy to do. They fit with my personality which is like here, let me give you some information about what's going on in this genre. And I just try and do things like that. I do newsletters, the promo sites that are the smaller promotional paid ads. I do those occasionally. I kind of have a rotation that I go through and try and try and get a book bub, you know, and if I can, that's great. But I've just done things like that that are just leaning into these things that I feel comfortable doing. And a lot of it is just finding small sites that oh, I haven't run an ad here. Let me see if there's anybody who wants to sign up or get a free book through me here. I've done some book funnel marketing where you can join the group promos. I like those. And I've reached out to libraries because I feel like my books appeal to libraries. They like the 1920s historicals. That's a easy way to reach people. And so or each. It's attractive to libraries. So I send them. I had a list of libraries in my state and I have an assistant who helps me out and she Messaged, she emailed down the list. She picked a few every week and messaged them and said, hey, this is a local author, she lives in the state. Here's some books you might enjoy from her. And I have, because of you, I have large print because I got into that when you started talking about large print a couple years ago. And so I have large print case laminate books that libraries like. So, you know, I just do things like that that are not the norm. Hardly anybody is talking about marketing to libraries. But I try and do that and sometimes I'll just, just think of something like I was at the library and I thought, wow, look at all these hardcover case laminate books that they have in this large print section. Maybe I should try that so that I search out and try and figure out if I can do it.

[A]

Yeah. And just for. If people don't know, case laminate is a hardback.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, so that's really interesting. I think that there's a few things there. Just so you mentioned there the libraries. You got a list. Was that a list that you were able to buy? I know, I remember years ago I had someone on the show who was doing that kind of thing. Was it that your assistant or you had to go through and find all the libraries, find an email address, that kind of thing?

[B]

I think that I found it through. I'm a member of Sisters in Crime, which is a mystery writers organization. And I think they had a contact list of you could get libraries and bookstores in your area. And so I think I started with that and then just research and I'm sure now with AI, you could put in where you are and say in a radius of 250 miles, what is near me and you could probably get a great list.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. And then when the assistant is emailing, is it just information about you and then saying, would you like to buy a this kind of thing because you have a big backlist and we don't want to be sending loads of expensive hardbacks to libraries unless they're actually going to buy. So what's the process to actually sell to them?

[B]

I wrote up an email and I introduced myself and I leaned into the. I'm local, I live in the same city or state that you're in. And then I described my most popular series and I said the first book is this. And I put a link to a PDF that they can go look at that. I think it's on my website that they can go see the books and then I have a. They can print that out of course. And it has the ISBNs. And I point, I make sure they know they can order the them from Ingram and that's all I do. And then when I had a new release we switched it up and we're like, hey, a new release is coming out and we put that at the top. But then I have all the books in the series so that they know it's a series.

[A]

Yeah, that's fantastic. I love that. And I think a lot of what you were talking about was newsletter email marketing, some ads, but nothing aggressive like as in monitoring it every single day. I think the, the email pushes like even a bookbub or you know, free books, bargain booksy, like you can book it and then it's almost like a set and forget, isn't it? Like you don't. Yeah, you don't have to. I mean sure you should really monitor your results but unlike Amazon ads or meta ads or whatever, you're not logging in every day to check the results. That's what you mean?

[B]

Yes, and I like those because they are set it and forget it. You just have to remember to drop the price and then reset it on Amazon and then they send it out to their list and hopefully you get some traffic from that. And, and I like that much better than Facebook ads because with ads I feel like you have to go in and monitor the comments and check on how they're doing and it's a more full time type job. I feel like if you're doing a lot of ads it's a couple of hours I guess for me anyway because I'm not very savvy with it and I'm not as experienced so it would take a long time to increase my knowledge there.

[A]

And I mean to be fair, both of us have had had many years when we could have become experts but the fact is it doesn't suit our personalities and.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I am now working with Claude code a bit more to do Amazon ads. But even then we go in once a week and Claude does a few things and then we log out again. So I'm not doing the sort of daily stuff and I may eventually get back into doing it for meta. But just, just in terms of, I guess this is what I mean by the sort of low key marketing because it's lower stress when you don't have to do stuff every day. And I guess what you're doing with the mystery books podcast, with the library pitches, with the batching sort of things, is that what you're doing? It's like putting aside time for marketing occasionally and doing it then.

[B]

Yes. And that's what I do. It's like, I'll think, oh, I haven't checked Kobo promo, so let me go check that. Because I do use those, too. I use the. I'm in and I'm wide. So I'm trying to find things that bring my book to readers everywhere. So, like, I use the Kobo promos. I use Kobo Plus. I used Draft Digital to get digital books into libraries. And so I'm always running. If they have a library sale anywhere, I sign up for it. And I just do these occasional things. I don't. It's not every day. And I kind of like doing things in phases. I like doing a special edition and working on that and then being done with that and putting that away and going back to writing or whatever. So I don't mind doing promo for a little bit, but then I want to. I don't want to do it every day.

[A]

Yeah, this is. We are similar in so many ways. I also have this sort of project approach to life and life and our business. And if I'm writing a first draft of a new book, pretty much everything else goes out the window.

[B]

Me, too.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. And because I just don't have the bandwidth, I'm not in that headspace. And then, yes, as we record this, I've got an A Kickstarter coming up. And yesterday I did the book trailer, and I'll do the push push thing for the Kickstarter, and then I'm just gonna stop.

[B]

Well, the positive way to look at that is it's focus. Right. You can focus for two weeks or a month or whatever, two months doing a Kickstarter or whatever, and then we're done with it, and then we move on.

[A]

Yeah, and that just seems more sustainable to me. I don't like doing everything every day or every single week.

[B]

Yeah, me either. I like switching it up. And I do enjoy the different phases of writing. I like the research and then I like doing the. Well, I don't like the drafting that much, but once I get a draft done, I like the editing. And then when it comes time to promote it, it or, you know, do whatever, I'm gonna like a special edition or whatever. I enjoy that part, like finding, whatever, what I'm going to use for the interior photos and stuff, just things like that. I enjoy each phase and I like switching it out.

[A]

Yeah, well, I think that's really good. And so some people think this writer's life is, you Write new words every single day and you manage your ads every single day. Like that seems to be what some people do. But that's certainly not us, is it?

[B]

No, no. And that's great if you want to do that. I just don't want to. And I think we've come to the point now where we can, each person can do this as they want and hopefully people don't feel the pressure to meet these self imposed deadlines or parameters that, you know, they don't exist. There's no rules for writing or publishing. You can do whatever you want.

[A]

Well, let's just mention social media then. What are you doing for that?

[B]

Not much. No, I, I, I'm dabbling in Pinterest because I think that could have the longer tail. I do a little Instagram, but that is about it. And I really considered just leaving it all together. I don't know that I really will do that, but I just am never on Facebook. I'm not. I have, we were talking earlier about saying no and I don't want to join any more Facebook groups. I don't care what the information they have. I figure I'll hear about it on podcast if it's great, you know. So yeah, I don't do much and I think that the market is, the social media has changed so much. In the beginning it was great you could find readers and now it's just much harder to connect with readers there. And I mean, I want to have a presence there. So people, people, if they go look for me, they'll find my book and hopefully find a link to download a free book and read it or an audiobook and listen to it and then they can get on my newsletter and connect with me there. That's kind of my philosophy.

[A]

Yeah, I think so too. And I mean I am on Instagram and I do post like pictures there. And even very recently I've discovered how to do a reel, which is just hilarious. I'm only like seven years late or something, but I don't check my, my dms. So if anyone messaged me on Instagram or Facebook, I'm just not getting them.

[B]

Yeah, I know, I know. And I feel like there's so many places that people can connect with you. I'm trying to say I, I put up a post on Facebook and I said I'm not going to be here much anymore. If you're looking for me, you can find me on Instagram maybe or sign up for my newsletter to really stay in touch.

[A]

Yeah, and I think that's what we have to do. But I think our idea, idea of this project based approach to the author life and the author business, it doesn't suit social media because the people who are really good on social media are on it multiple times a day and creating content multiple times a day. And yeah, just suit some people are not others, I guess.

[B]

Yeah. And I do things and I think I take pictures and they, oh, I'll put this on Instagram and then I don't ever do it. Like one time we went on a road trip and I took a bunch of paperback and dropped them off in the free little libraries that they have and I took a picture at each one and I never posted those ever. And I ran across them years later. I was like, oh yeah, that, that didn't, that I did it, but I didn't post it on social media. So that's just not my thing.

[A]

Yeah. Although you did just say that you like doing the art and the photos and you've done some beautiful special editions, you've done letters, you do a lot of physical design for you, your book. So talk a bit about that and why you're doing that and why is that fun And I guess pros and cons as well, because it can be a time suck and a money suck.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I think you have to figure out where your, your gauge is for that because you can go all in and you can do everything for the special editions. And I've come to the conclusion I'm going to survey my readers before I do another one and say, what do you really like about them? Is it just that because I do mine and I release them on my Shopify store first and is it just that you're getting it first or do you like all the bells and whistles? You know, because I enjoy doing the end pages and the ribbon and then I've done character art for them. But since my books are set in the 1920s, there's a lot of photos from that time period that are available, like in deposit photos. You can go in and search for those. And so the last book I did, I think the last two books I did photos that I thought captured what the characters would look like. And that was a lot of fun to find those and just include photos instead of character art. And it was a lot faster than waiting for character art too. So yeah, I figured the pros are that it's fun and you get to do these things that you don't normally get to do, like finding the beautiful illustrations for the end pages and Doing the sprite edges and just making it really special. I enjoy that and I enjoy doing things that like you can't do letters on Amazon. You just can't do that. So I did, with both Kickstarters, I did, you could get three physical letters in the mail and they were a story told through letters and they had art and they. The first one was black and white and then the second set was color. And so since then I've done color. And it's a challenge to write those because it's a totally different type of writing because it's more, you know, 10001500 word little snippet and you know where you end. It is important so that readers will be looking for the next one. And then including art with it was just a new interesting thing that I was like, oh, I could put a map in this one. I could do illustrations of what the view looks like here, what the house looks like. Not that I illustrated it. I had somebody else help me do that. But yeah, so those things are just interesting. And I think it's fun to think about how stories can be told in different ways. And I love novels. But 70,000 words, that's a lot of words. That's a big project and sometimes it's nicer to have a shorter project. So the letters were shorter and easier to. To like a shorter time investment, I guess. So I enjoyed them for that. But yeah, and for the cons, it's just a longer up ramp, I think, for that to get it going. Because I would say if you want to do a special edition or letters or book boxes or anything like that, just estimate how much time you think you need and then just multiply by like three or five because it's going to take so much longer than you think. Would you agree with that? With your special editions?

[A]

Yeah, although I think now I've got a process for it. Although, like I said, I did my book trailer for Bones of the Deep yesterday and it reminded me, you know, the book trailer is 30 seconds and I kid you not, it took me nearly 10 hours. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

I do believe that, though. I completely believe it.

[A]

Yeah. Because I'm. I think I'm a bit of a control freak. Like, I love working with Mid Journey. I say I think I'm a control freak. Of course I am. We all are as indie authors. But I. I'm a very visual author. And you sound like you are as well in that I see the book and so if I'm generating pictures of the characters or the ship or what happens in the storm or whatever, then it needs to look like what's in my head. So I will end up generating and generating and generating. And then, and then I. I did music and then. So yeah, it's very creative, but it takes a heck of a long time. So just coming back to your letters there and your kicks Kickstarters. So I did go check. It's been a while, hasn't it, since you done those. So are you. Have you. Why have you now changed to using your Shopify store? Will you do another Kickstarter anytime?

[B]

I may do another Kickstarter, I do feel like I found new readers on Kickstarter. So I think that there's a. That's a pro definitely to doing special editions and doing stuff on Kickstarter is people will see your work that maybe would never see it on Amazon. And it's a much smaller pool of. To stand out in. Whereas Amazon there's thousands and millions of books. Whereas on Kickstarter there might be five historical mysteries or two at that moment. So it's easier to stand out. So yes, I'll probably do another Kickstarter. But to me, it was difficult with the prep that went into it, then the launch. And the launch kind of stressed me out. I know that we talked to you on our podcast before your first Kickstarter and you were a little stressed. So I. Not as stressed as I would be, I think, with the first one. But it is a lot to prepare and I do feel some pressure that, oh my goodness, I want this one to do well. And then the fulfillment, like I was saying, I like to do things kind of in phases. So I felt like I. It was hard for me to move on to do anything else while I was waiting for the books to arrive because I didn't feel like I was done with that until I had sent out the books. So it just seemed. Seemed like it took quite a bit of time. And so I thought with the next one, my next release, I did the two Kickstarters and then with my next book, I thought I'm going to launch this on my Shopify store and see how it does. And so I still did the special edition and I still did a lot of the things that I learned to do with Kickstarter, like emailing my list a little more often and highlighting these special things that are in it and coordinating with a couple of other authors in my genre to say, hey, I have a book out and it's a special edition you might be interested in. Then share their stuff whenever their book comes out. So I did all those things. And then the first one I did, I had the book sent to me. I signed them, packed them and sent them out. But then the second one I said to save us time and to save you and me money, we were just going to do a digital signature. And so I had them shipped directly from Book Vault to the reader. And that just helped simplify things so much. And launching it on my store, I didn't see quite as many sales or bringing quite as much money as I did on Kickstarter, but it took a lot less time. And so I feel that was a good trade off and it simplified the time that it took to do it. So I was able to get back to writing a little bit more quickly. So the second one I launched on my store as well. And I'll probably do do the third. I this I've done the spin off series on my store. So it has, it's a three book series and I'll probably do the third book on my store as well. And then maybe for when I go back to my original 1920s series, which is like the one that does the best and is my most popular, I may go back to Kickstarter with that one. But yeah, I think it's nice to have the choice to launch it on my store or Kickstarter if I want. You know, I can choose. Do I have enough time to do it the way I want to on Kickstarter?

[A]

Yeah, I feel like launching on my store. I feel like there's less of a time pressure though. You know, we don't have scarcity in our business really. And the only way in my mind to make it scarce is to have a limited time offer, which to me Kickstarter by its very nature is a limited time offer. Obviously it's easier for me because I'm near Book Vault. So I go up there and I physically sign the books and that I like doing that occasionally and. But I hear you with the direct store and also I presume it trains people. It trains people to buy from your store. So how has your revenue shifted then from the big stores like Amazon, Kobo, as you say, to shopify Kickstarter direct sales?

[B]

Yeah, it's shifted a lot. So yes, I do the Shopify store and I do the Shopify store just like I do everything else in phases. I'm like, hey, I have a new release, go buy it at my store and I have a lot of sales. Or I also launched a third set of letters last year Around, I think it was November or October leading into November. I was like, you can get this series of letters that will be two a month all year in 2026. Go to my store, sign up for it, buy it there. They'll be launching in December. So I do that. I push it, I talk about it. I do a podcast about. About letters or the special edition on mystery books podcast. And then I do. I ran a couple of ads and got the word out, saw some sales, got everything done, and then it just kind of tapers off. And what I need to do, I think, is continue to market it especially to my list and say, hey, did you know I've got these bundles? Did you know you can get bundles of paperbacks or audiobooks over here for me at a discount? So I need to work that into my newsletter strategy. So it's kind of like I use it in phases. And I still have books on all the retailers and I still promote those and link to them. But that's not my focus now. I feel like if I'm going to send traffic anywhere, I'm going to send it to my store. And yeah, so things have shifted. My mindset is more on direct sales. And you know, the special things that I can do, the special editions, the unique things that they can only get from me and. And then I'll still do. If I can get a bookbub, I would push that to the retailers and the smaller newsletter sites. I use those to reach readers there. But my focus is definitely on these special editions and doing things on my store that you can't get anywhere else.

[A]

Yeah, and I think a lot of people, new authors particularly, obviously are thinking about ebook, audiobook, paperback, that is. And all of those you can get anywhere. Like, like for both of us, for both of our books, you can get them in those formats anywhere. And in fact, large print as well. I have large print paperback. And I do actually remember it was probably five years ago when you were here and you mentioned large print hardback. And I was like, oh, yeah, I should do that. Of course, I never did. So you can't do everything.

[B]

You can't do everything.

[A]

Yeah, you can't. You can't. But I actually, I think you probably can do a large print hardback on Amazon now with KDP print, you can do hardbacks, but none of them are as good quality and as the printing that we get elsewhere. But also, as you say, all those special things that you actually can't sell them, I mean, people can sell them secondhand or whatever, can't they? But you just can't do that. So I think that's the creative fun of having your own store or doing Kickstarters, of selling direct is just all the other fun things that satisfy us creatively too. Because it's not all about the readers, is it?

[B]

Right. Because we want to be enjoying what we're doing. We don't want it to be a slogan.

[A]

What's the fun in that?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I guess. Well, just remind us how long you've been doing this now.

[B]

Well, my first book came out in 2006. It was traditionally published and I had a series of 10 books with a traditional publisher. And then as that one was getting near the end, I was experimenting with indie was a hybrid for a while. Yeah. And then I went all indie pretty much in what year that was probably, I think my first indie book came out in 2012. So for a while there I was trying to. I was doing indie and a traditionally published book. And that was very. I felt like I was torn in all. All kinds of different directions. And so I thought it was gonna be so much simpler just to do this all myself.

[A]

Which maybe not, but pros and cons as we said. Well, okay, so one of the things you've also done recently is you've co written a mystery and thriller trope thesaurus with Jennifer Hilt who's been on this show as well as your show talking about this stuff. So tell us about co because I don't think you've done much co writing.

[B]

No, I hadn't. That was the first co written book I'd ever done and it was a great experience. Jennifer Hilt made it so easy and she has several books in this trope thesaurus series. And so she had a format and we just used her format and we took the. The tropes and we divided them up and she took half and I took half and we went off and wrote on our own and came back together and then we would trade and it was really easy. And I don't know that this is the way co writing usually goes, but we did have a contract and we started out with all the normal things like a plan and a contract and we had to decide who was going to coordinate everything for the COVID and the copy editing and all that. And then when we got done, we used draft two digital and did the payment splitting which made that part easy. So it's been a great experience. And I think it's just because Jennifer has done this before and she's really easy to work with. So I highly recommend co writing if you can find somebody like Jennifer Hilton who's already done it and can take you through the system. It's. It was great.

[A]

Yeah. I think that's the point. There is if. If you have someone like Jennifer who has a layout, it's a bit like there's a For Dummies series. And I. I had an opportunity to do something with them at one point and it's so formulaic in terms of doing it. And then you're kind of fil. Filling it in. And clearly Jennifer's managing that really well. Whereas the co writing I've done with various people, again, has been pros and cons, but it's not been in an established series, I guess. So I love that you say that, but just to warn people that might not be your experience.

[B]

Yes. And I think it's so much about personality and how you work together and how you each write and like your deadlines if you try and set a really close deadline. We pushed our deadline out and we had planned to do a Kickstarter starter with the launch of the Trope book. And then she ended up moving and I had a bunch of stuff going on and we were like, you know what? That's fine. We won't do a Kickstarter. And it was okay. You know, you just kind of have to figure out how it's going to go. And if you have someone that's flexible when you need to be flexible, that's so important.

[A]

Yeah. And adjusting is. That's the reality of life, isn't it? And also, I feel like the Trope thesaurus is not going to necessarily have a spike sail and then disappear. It is an evergreen green book, right?

[B]

Yes. And it's. And people will find it when they find the series. And it's not something that it has to be pushed during this certain time period and then we're done. It's a long term, evergreen type book.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, talking of series, you've obviously got multiple series. People should definitely go. You've got great branding and I feel like you're seeing series are so clear. So what part does series and bundles play in? I guess marketing in general, but also your direct sales.

[B]

Well, I do like to bundle them for my direct store because I figured I need something special about my store, a reason for people to go there. Because like you said, they can get the books on Amazon and Audible and Spotify and all these places, so why would they go to my store? So I've really leaned into bundles for the store. So they can get, can get like a three book audio book bundle or the whole series in all my series pretty much. And they can do the paperback bundling. I've done a paperback starter series bundle where they can get each book in my first three series bundled together through Book Vault. And I thought I really need to do that with the audiobooks. I don't know why I haven't done that. That's on my list to do is to create a starter audiobook bundle, you know. So, yeah, I feel like those do well on Kobo. They draw readers in over there. And for the rare times that I can get a BookBub, I think bundles seem to appeal to BookBub. If I'm going to pitch something, it seems like they like bundles. So yeah, and I think readers like them because part of it I think is the convenience. You've got the whole series together and you can just read one after another. You don't have to go find it and figure out what order they're in, everything. So I think readers like them too.

[A]

They do. And I love offering bundles in the Kickstarter as add ons and as you say, on my Shopify stores as well, the same because I'm always surprised. I'm like, somebody's just found me. And then they order the 13 Arcade Thriller paperback bundle and I'm like, okay, wow, that just feels like a win.

[B]

Yes, yes. I love to see those come in and you're like, oh, I wonder how they found me. And you know, why they would dive in with the seven book series. That's fantastic. But you know, it is interesting, the

[A]

paperbacks and then the shipping, you drop some money for a complete print series and then obviously usually it's a bit less on things like audio and ebook bundles, but it's still a real commitment. So yeah, everybody, we love bundles. We do in so many ways. Okay, so I wanted to come back to, to the podcast. Wish I'd known then, which is brilliant. I often refer to it on this show. So hopefully we, I think we share quite a few listeners and you and Jamie talk about industry changes, you talk about personal things. So given all the stuff that's going on, what are you excited about? What are you experimenting with? What sort of changes are you seeing that you are enjoying?

[B]

Oh, we appreciate the shout out every time you give us a shout out and I do think that we do share a readership and I think you are our most frequently mentioned other podcast that we are always referring to. I wish I knew then. But yeah, so what I'm looking forward to is I like seeing what other businesses or industries are doing and seeing if I can apply that to writing and books and that that's how I came up with the letter idea. I saw some people doing that and I didn't. I found out later there were some mystery related mystery letter subscriptions but I didn't know about them and they weren't real well known. I thought, oh, I could try that. So I'm looking forward to doing more creative things that we haven't had the opportunity to do. But now we are going to have the tech and the fulfillment to do. I think merch could be fun. I haven't ever delved into that. Translations. I didn't even mention translations earlier. I've done a couple of languages in my historical series and so I think it's really interesting the options that we have now in translation that the books could go into so many more languages, so much easier. So I'm looking into that and yeah, just kind of reaching out out and trying some of these new things that are on the horizon. You're much more futurist than I am. I'm much more about looking back at the past and going, oh, that was cool. Maybe we can do something similar but different now.

[A]

Well, that's interesting you say that. So how are you finding out that information about what other industries are doing? Because I feel like the curation of the information stream is hard for all of us.

[B]

I don't know, I seem to run across things that I don't just. I don't know where I find them. I'm always reading and browsing online and seeing what people are talking about. I did see a post years ago about a company that was doing the special edges. They were doing limited edition special edges. And when I saw that I thought, oh, I wonder if I could do that. And I hand stamped snowflakes on a Christmas book.

[A]

Oh, I remember that.

[B]

And yeah, that was like the first.

[A]

I actually bought a second stamp. I got a stamp made.

[B]

Oh, awesome.

[A]

I never used it.

[B]

Well, it's a lot of work. I mean it takes time and so. But I mean they're very special. Each one is unique. Just like a snowflake. Each book has all these different types of snowflakes and ink colors on it. So that. So like I, I'll see something and think, oh, I wonder if I could do that. And then I'm always consuming all this really quirky media. I'm into Asian drama dramas, Korean dramas, Japanese dramas, and I'm seeing trends over there for storytelling and the vertical dramas that they're putting out. Super short. I just wonder what that's going to turn into in the future. I'm not a video person, but in the future, I think that there could be short little videos that we could make of our books, and that would be just crazy. I don't know that I would have the skills to do that. But we might be able to hire somebody to do that.

[A]

Me for.

[B]

For us.

[A]

I mean, there are lots of AI apps that are already kind of helping that. I mean, I do love making book trailers, so I love. And I have also thought about my short stories, particularly. I've thought about turning into short videos because I've written a few screenplays. And so I'm also thinking about that kind of visual side. I also watch a lot of Korean shows.

[B]

Oh, do you?

[A]

I love Korean shows.

[B]

Oh, we have to talk later.

[A]

Yeah, they're very. They're very good at. I also like this. The. The Korean sports stuff and the cooking stuff, and they're just so good at hooking you in.

[B]

Yes, they are.

[A]

They are so good. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, they're really good at, like, blending genres. And then I've noticed with their storytelling, they're doing a lot of these stories that are. They call them isekai stories where the main character falls into a story. And. And I heard somebody talking about it, saying that they think that's popular because we're so familiar with media entertainment, we kind of know where the story's going. So that's a new way. Like if your character falls into a fictional mystery and knows who the bad guy is and is trying to prevent a death or something, that's a completely different story than just a straight mystery.

[A]

Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, in a way, I guess the sort of lit RPG where the character goes into a game. That the character is in a game. I suppose it's got some relationship to that, but I think K Pop Demon Hunters is like the most successful film and music and all of this kind of thing. I mean, it's clearly coming to the. To more Western audiences.

[B]

Yes. It's becoming much more mainstream. Mainstream than it used to be, I think.

[A]

Well, that's really interesting, given that you're mainly a historical. Are we going to get 1920s Korean?

[B]

Oh, maybe they do have some really cool. That's a cool, interesting time period. Maybe my character needs to travel there.

[A]

You have a travel series, don't you?

[B]

Yes, I do have. I have a modern, cozy kind of travel series. And then in my 1920s series series it takes place mostly in England, but then I have a spin off with a character who's gone to Egypt. And so I have three books set in Egypt.

[A]

Well, you never know.

[B]

I know. Maybe they need to travel.

[A]

I love it. Okay, where can people find you and your books and your podcasts online?

[B]

So thanks for having me. This has just been so much fun. You can find [e-mail] that's my website. My store is Sarah Rosettebooks.com you can find the podcast with Jamie and I wish I'd known then. It's everywhere. Apple, Spotify, we're even on Substack now. And yeah, and the. Yeah, that's where everything is.

[A]

Brilliant. Well, thanks so much for your time, Sarah. That was great.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I hope you found the discussion with Sarah interesting and that it encourages you to think about what suits you and your book and your lifestyle in terms of your writing and creativity and book marketing and author business about how to think long term and take a more low key approach, which can be a lot more sustainable than trying to keep up frantically with whatever the latest thing is. So let me know what you think about today's show, the interview, or my introduction. Please leave a comment on the podcast Show Notes at the creative pen.com or on the YouTube channel, or email me joannathecreativepenn.com and send me pictures of where you're listening or your favourite cemetery or churchyard. Next Monday I'll be sharing a special episode on Kickstarter featuring snippets from previous episodes, tips from my own experiences, and answering questions around crowdfunding. In the meantime, happy writing and I'll see you next time. Thanks for listening today. I hope you found it helpful. You can find the backlist in episodes and show [e-mail] podcast and you can get your free author [e-mail] blueprint. If you'd like to connect, you can find me on Facebook and X at the Creative Pen or on Instagram and Facebook. Fpenauthor Happy writing and I'll see you next time.