The Creative Penn Podcast for Writers, Episode 854

Writing Characters: 15 Actionable Tips For Writing Deep Character
Host: Joanna Penn
Date: March 16, 2026

Episode Overview

In this special solo episode, Joanna Penn synthesizes the wisdom gathered from years of interviews and her own experience to offer writers 15 actionable tips for crafting deep, memorable, and multi-dimensional characters. Drawing on conversations with notable guests (including Matt Bird, Will Storr, Gayle Carriger, and Barbara Nickless) and referencing her own writing journey, Joanna’s episode is a toolkit for anyone wanting to elevate their character work.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Master the "Believe, Care, Invest" Trifecta

• Source: Matt Bird (Ep. 624) [27:13]
• Make readers believe the character is real, care about their circumstances, and invest in their journey—all ideally established on page one.
• Memorable Example: The Hunger Games: Katniss’s voice, hunger, and immediate resourcefulness.
• Quote: "This has nothing to do with the character being likable... What matters is that we believe, care, and invest."
• Action: Review your opening to ensure all three elements are present.

2. Define the Dramatic Question

• Source: Will Storr (Ep. 490) [29:24]
• Underline the "Who are you, really?" question at the core of your character’s arc.
• Example: Lawrence of Arabia – Is Lawrence ordinary or extraordinary?
• Action: Write your protagonist’s dramatic question in a single sentence.

3. Use Absolute Specificity for Flaws

• Source: Will Storr (Ep. 490) [31:41]
• Avoid vague flaws. Pinpoint specifics ("She always thinks she’s the only adult in the room").
• Insight: “Starting with one highly specific flaw...generates complexity.”
• Action: Pressure-test your character’s flaw for specificity.

4. Hero’s Versus Heroine’s Journey

• Source: Gayle Carriger (Ep. 550) [34:33]
• Hero’s journey: strength through isolation.
• Heroine’s journey: strength through connection and building networks.
• Quote: “The heroine is very good at asking for help, which…is actually a powerful form of strength.”
• Action: Identify which journey your protagonist is on—it will shape plot decisions.

5. Metaphor Families for Dialogue and Voice

• Source: Matt Bird (Ep. 624) [37:46]
• Assign distinct metaphor families to each character (related to aspiration, not just background).
• Example: Omar in The Wire uses “pirate” metaphors; Gareth in The Office uses military language.
• Action: Rework dialogue so each character draws from a unique metaphor family.

6. The ‘Diagonal Toast’ Diagnostic Detail

• Source: Matt Bird (Ep. 624) [39:46]
• Ditch cliché tags (eye patches!)—add behavioral quirks, like “I can’t eat diagonally cut toast.”
• Quote: “That detail is gold for a writer because it feels pulled from real life.”
• Action: Keep a notebook of these details to assign to characters.

7. Displace Personal Trauma for Depth

• Source: Barbara Nickless (Ep. 732) [46:23]
• Pour your emotion into the character’s experience—transform, not copy.
• Notable Quote: "The act of producing itself is a balm to the soul." (Barbara Nickless)
• Action: Channel your own grief/fear/etc. into a parallel struggle within your character.

8. Authentic Diverse Characters

• Source: Sarah Elizabeth Sawyer (Ep. 673) [51:14]
• Move beyond stereotypes. Inclusive casts shouldn’t exist only as tokens or as historical figures.
• Action: Audit your cast—who brings a fresh background or perspective?

9. Respect Cultural Specificity

• Source: Sarah Elizabeth Sawyer (Ep. 673) [54:40]
• Avoid treating cultures as monoliths. Do deep research—use specific, not generic, details.
• Quote: "Research is simply an act of empathy."
• Action: Identify three to five researched details for your character's culture; consider a sensitivity reader.

10. Morally Neutral Heroes

• Source: Matt Bird (Ep. 624) [58:29]
• A ‘hero’ is the one we follow, not always someone good.
• Motivation, not morals, makes characters interesting.
• Quote: "We don’t have to like them...but they have to be captivating enough that we want to spend time with them."
• Action: Focus on big, specific problems and layered motivation for protagonists and antagonists.

11. Side Characters as Future Protagonists

• Source: Gayle Carriger (Ep. 550) [62:01]
• Build supporting casts full of life—they can anchor spin-offs, satisfying readers and aiding business growth.
• Example: Bridgerton novels, Barbara Nickless’s Dr. Evan Wilding series.
• Action: Vividly sketch side characters, giving them unique quirks or backstories.

12. Rhythm and Voice in Characterization

• Source: Matt Bird (Ep. 624) [63:48]
• Analyze periods vs. commas to mirror internal realities (staccato = tense/grounded, comma-heavy = nuanced or scattered).
• Action: Read dialogue aloud—adjust rhythm to match who your character is.

13. Link Plot and Character Flaw

• Source: Will Storr (Ep. 490) [65:31]
• Structure your plot to stress-test your protagonist’s core flaw.
• Example: Jaws—Brody’s fear of water is tested at every turn.
• Quote: "Plot should be designed specifically to plot against your character."
• Action: Revisit turning points: Do they test your character’s flaw directly?

14. Maestra Approach—Write Out of Order

• Source: Barbara Nickless (Ep. 732) [70:39]
• Discovery writers: Deep character can be built through emotional scenes first, structure later.
• Metaphor: “Like a maestra…sometimes you bring in the horns, sometimes the strings.”
• Action: If stuck, skip ahead to the most emotionally vital scene.

15. Research for Empathetic Precision

• Source: Barbara Nickless (Ep. 732) [72:39]
• Research isn’t just facts, but lived-in, sensory details—visit, watch, experience.
• Quote: “Don’t write what you know, write what you want to learn about.”
• Action: For your next character, find at least one sensory detail through first-hand or immersive research.

Notable Quotes and Moments

• On Trauma and Creation:
  “The act of producing itself is a balm to the soul.” (Barbara Nickless, 46:23)
• On Purposeful Diversity:
  “Research is simply an act of empathy.” (Joanna Penn, referencing Sarah Elizabeth Sawyer, 54:40)
• On the Essence of Character:
  "What matters is that we believe, care, and invest." (Matt Bird, 27:13)
• On Plot and Character:
  "Plot should be designed specifically to plot against your character.” (Will Storr, 65:31)
• On Creative Freedom:
  “If you can write for love and not money, then do it.” (Joanna Penn, 21:46)

Important Timestamps

• [27:13] — The “Believe, Care, Invest” Trifecta
• [29:24] — Defining Dramatic Questions / Character Flaws
• [34:33] — Hero vs. Heroine’s Journey
• [37:46] — Metaphor Families in Dialogue
• [39:46] — Diagonal Toast Diagnostic Detail
• [46:23] — Displacing Trauma into Characters
• [51:14] — Writing Authentic Diverse Characters
• [54:40] — Cultural Specificity & Sensitivity
• [58:29] — Morally Neutral Heroes
• [62:01] — Vibrant Side Characters & Spin-offs
• [63:48] — Voice as Rhythm
• [65:31] — Linking Plot & Character Flaw
• [70:39] — Maestra Approach to Discovery Writing
• [72:39] — Research for Empathy and Authenticity

Actionable Takeaways

• For Each Character:

  1. Define their dramatic question (specific and sharp).
  2. Identify a unique, hyper-specific “diagonal toast” quirk.
  3. Ensure the plot repeatedly tests their core flaw.
  4. Use research to find one lived-in sensory detail.

• For Your Cast:
  Audit for diversity—include nuanced, well-researched backgrounds.

• For Your Craft:
  Focus on creating work that only you, with your life experience and empathy, can produce.

Final Thought

Joanna closes with a powerful reminder:

“Your characters are your signature. No AI can replicate the specificity of your lived experience, the emotional truth of your displaced trauma, or the sensory details you've gathered from a life of curiosity and travel. Those are yours. Pour them into your characters and they will resonate for years to come.”
— [75:33]

Next Episode Teaser:
Interview with Anne Lamott, author of Bird by Bird.