The Creative Penn Podcast for Writers

Episode 828: Writing, Self-Publishing And Marketing Books For Children With Darcy Pattison
Host: Joanna Penn
Guest: Darcy Pattison
Date: September 15, 2025

Episode Overview

In this insightful episode, Joanna Penn interviews prolific children’s author and self-publishing advocate Darcy Pattison. Together, they explore the unique craft challenges of writing for children, the nitty-gritty of book production—including board books, illustration, copyright, and printing—and business strategies for profit and bulk sales to schools. Darcy, the author of 70+ books and a prominent hybrid author, candidly shares her journey and best practices for self-publishing children’s books.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Craft of Writing for Children

[21:13–25:03]

• Unique Structure and Tightness:
  Darcy compares picture book writing to poetry:

  “Picture books are a very tight art form. I sort of compare it to writing poetry. There are 32 pages...about 14 double page spreads...you have to set up a character, a problem, complicate the story, then resolve it in some satisfying way in less than 500 words while leaving room for the illustrator.”
  — Darcy Pattison [21:33]

• Print’s Enduring Importance:
  Despite the digital era, the children’s book market remains heavily print-focused.

  "Most people who independently publish will tell you that 90% of their sales are paperback...children’s books still, by and large, even for independent people like me, is a paperback or hardcover.”
  — Darcy Pattison [22:28]

• Children’s Book Categories:

  • Board books (for the very young, hard for self-pub, require offset printing)
  • Picture books (ages 4–8; parent reads to child)
  • Early chapter books (ages ~6–8; pay attention to vocabulary levels)
  • Middle grade (8–12)
  • Young Adult (YA) (14+, increasingly adult in subject matter)

2. The Self-Publishing Journey & Creative Freedom

[25:03–28:10]

• Avoiding ‘Creative Death’
  After initial mainstream success, Darcy found the traditional publishing world stifling and turned to indie:

  “For me, the traditional publishing world is a place of scarcity...but self publishing is a place of abundance for me. I do what I want. I find stories that excite me and I put them in the hands of kids.”
  — Darcy Pattison [25:03]

• Iterative Learning:
  She self-published a very niche writing book, which taught her the mechanics of self-publishing—even before it was mainstream.

3. Working with Illustrators for Children’s Books

[28:39–34:21]

• Finding Illustrators:

  • SCBWI (Society of Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators) Gallery: Professional and not behind a paywall.
  • Behance.net: A global Adobe-run creative portfolio platform.
  • Referrals: Ask other authors for recommendations.

  “Behance.net is one of my main ways to find professional illustrators. And then finally, referrals. Just talk to other people, ask them who they used, were they happy with the process, that kind of thing."
  — Darcy Pattison [29:19]

• Collaboration Process:

  • Give the full manuscript to the illustrator.
  • Let them create sketches first, then provide detailed feedback in a revision letter.
  • Be specific at the sketch stage, not after final artwork is created.

• Contracts & Copyright:

  • Always use contracts, specifying deliverables (usually 14 double-page spreads plus covers).
  • Clarify rights: flat fee for all rights or royalty payment.

  “Usually the contract will say that I need 14 double page spreads plus...for the cover and page 32...I always do contracts...you can do a flat fee where you take all rights, or you can negotiate a royalty payment. It’s all in the contract.”
  — Darcy Pattison [31:30–32:57]

4. Quality, Printing, and Distribution

[34:21–40:56]

• Print On Demand (POD):

  • Ingram: For wide distribution, especially schools/libraries. Accepts the level of quality as a trade-off for economic flexibility.
  • KDP (Amazon): Upload separately for always-available Amazon listing.
  • Lulu: Used for the best print quality (coated paper), especially for Shopify store orders and large special runs.

  “We do print on demand because the economic issues make sense. We don't have to put a huge investment up front...I think it’s wise to be more nimble.”
  — Darcy Pattison [34:36]

• Offset Printing:
  Only for very large orders with enough lead time (e.g., 600-book event orders), or when absolute quality is non-negotiable.

• Pricing for Profit:

  • Don’t compete on price—compete on value and quality.
  • Charge enough for a reasonable profit margin, even if that means a higher price point than mainstream publishers.

  “You cannot compete on price. Absolutely. I can’t sell my picture books for $8.99. They are $11.99...and they sell.”
  — Darcy Pattison [37:23]

5. Bulk Sales and Marketing to Schools & Libraries

[43:28–48:44]

• Bulk Sales Strategy:
  Focus on topics that fit existing school curricula, making the books a need for teachers.

  “Teachers don’t just like my book, they need my book to adequately teach sound to their students… If it fits the curriculum, then it’s more likely to be picked up for reading programs, for summer programs, for summer camps, that sort of thing.”
  — Darcy Pattison [43:47]

• Effective Outreach:

  • Speak at educator and librarian conferences (local, regional, national) rather than targeting individual parents.
  • Provide book talks at these industry events—these leaders are more consistent customers than parents, whose children age out of your target audience.

  “Parents are a moving target...But teachers and librarians always have those 8-year-olds coming through their system.”
  — Darcy Pattison [47:13]

• Nonfiction and STEM:
  Nonfiction STEM books are the “bread and butter” of Darcy’s business, more likely to yield large sales and group orders due to their curricular fit.

6. Navigating Age Groups and Longevity as an Author

[48:44–50:57, 55:28–57:14]

• Writing for Age Groups:

  • Many enter children’s writing to create a book for their child’s current age, but commercial success requires consistent genre expertise and genuine passion.

  “Find a genre that you like and dive in...You have to know the genre.”
  — Darcy Pattison [50:21]

• Staying the Course:

  • Continue learning and remain curious.
  • Adapt to changes—both industry-related and creative.
  • Embrace mistakes as learning opportunities.

  “Curiosity is what keeps us going, to be honest. And I feel at this point that if there’s still books I want to write, then I’m just going to keep writing them."
  — Joanna Penn [56:51]

7. Translation, Licensing, and Global Markets

[50:57–51:29]

• Experimented with self-publishing in Spanish (mixed results; marketing remains a challenge).
• Works with a foreign agent and has sold series rights to publishers in China and Korea.

“I do have an agent and they just sold a nine book series to a Chinese publisher, so we’ll see how that goes. And they have also sold a six book series to Korean.”
— Darcy Pattison [51:29]

8. AI in Writing and Illustration

[51:53–55:13]

• AI Tools for Writers:

  • Google NotebookLM: Organizes research and creates annotated timelines with citations.
  • Claude: Helpful for outlining; used AI for book descriptions.
  • Joanna recommends Gemini Deep Research for low-hallucination, in-depth research tasks.

• AI & Illustration:

  • Adobe’s Firefly is available, but most illustrators are still doing original digital work; AI-generated art isn’t the norm yet.
  • Consistency in character illustrations (like unique eyes on a cat) still challenges AI image generators, though rapid development is ongoing.

  “I think that’s coming. I don’t think you can stop it and I think it will be lovely, but I just haven’t done it yet.”
  — Darcy Pattison [55:13]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Self publishing is a place of abundance for me. I do what I want. I find stories that excite me and I put them in the hands of kids.” — Darcy Pattison [25:03]
• “Picture books are a very tight art form. I sort of compare it to writing poetry...You have to set up a character, a problem, complicate the story, then resolve it in some satisfying way in less than 500 words while leaving room for the illustrator.” — Darcy Pattison [21:33]
• “We are not competing on price. We cannot compete on price or shipping...I’m not Amazon. And literally, people will then go, ‘oh, right, yeah, I understand.’” — Joanna Penn [38:16]
• “If there’s still books I want to write, then I’m just going to keep writing them.” — Joanna Penn [56:51]

Key Timestamps for Selected Topics

• [21:13] The craft of writing children’s picture books
• [25:03] Why self-publish: creative freedom and abundance
• [28:39] Finding and working with illustrators
• [34:21] Printing, distribution, and quality considerations
• [43:28] Bulk sales and making books needed for school curriculum
• [45:35] Marketing to schools and libraries
• [50:57] Translations and foreign rights sales
• [51:53] Use of AI in research, writing, and illustration
• [55:28] Longevity tips and sustaining a creative writing career

Where to Find Darcy Pattison and Resources

• Children’s Books: mimshousebooks.com
• Self-Publishing Blog: indykidsbooks.com
• Her latest book, "Publish," available via Kickstarter and for pre-order on Amazon.

Final Thoughts

This episode is a goldmine for anyone considering writing, self-publishing, or marketing children’s books. Darcy shares practical advice from decades in the industry, blending creative inspiration and business acumen, while Joanna’s probing questions keep the focus relatable for authors at every stage. The episode demystifies the production process, highlights the importance of rights management, and encourages indie authors to pursue abundance—with an eye on profitability, professionalism, and joy.

For full show notes and resources, visit thecreativepenn.com and connect with Joanna on your preferred platform.