In this episode of the Crisis in Education podcast, Dr. Paul “Paulie” Gavoni sits down with Michael Waller, an attorney and Executive Director of Georgia Appleseed, to talk about the real work of keeping students safe, supported, and out of the criminal justice system. Drawing from legal, educational, and behavioral science perspectives, they unpack how poverty, exclusionary discipline, and lack of proactive support funnel students — especially kids in poverty and kids of color — from classrooms into courts. The conversation shines a light on what actually works: strengthening schools as prevention hubs, building predictable environments, and giving educators the tools to respond to behavior before it escalates.

🔑 Key Topics Covered

Why the criminal justice system was never designed for children
How poverty and school exclusion feed the “school-to-system” pipeline
The real impact of suspension, expulsion, and “push-out” practices
What educators can do when they don't control the home environment
How legal advocacy and behavior science intersect in prevention
The role of predictable, reinforcing environments in reducing crisis behavior
Why “safety” must be defined as more than just the absence of violence

If you believe schools should be places of opportunity, not gateways to the system, share this episode with a colleague, educator, or policymaker.
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Keeping Kids in School — and Out of the System