← The Big Impression
The Big Impression
BBDO's Nancy Reyes and Chris Beresford-Hill on why epic creativity is good for business
00:19:02
The Dynamic Duos Podcast showcases some of the most compelling brand-agency relationships in the industry today. In each episode, agency and brand partners sit down with each other to take listeners inside their creative and strategic partnerships. Our first episode features BBDO's Nancy Reyes and Chris Beresford-Hill, who dive into why epic creativity is good for business.
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- [00:00]
A
Hey there, it's Damien and Ilece, co hosts of the Big Impression.
- [00:04]
B
Welcome to Dynamic Duos, a new podcast from the Big Impression. In each episode we bring together agency leaders and the brands they partner with to explore what makes their relationships click.
- [00:15]
A
The big ideas, the behind the scenes stories and the lessons they've learned along the way. Now let's hear from this week's dynamic duo.
- [00:23]
C
Hi, I'm Chris Beresford Hill. I'm the worldwide Chief Creative Officer at bbdo.
- [00:27]
D
And I'm Nancy Reyes. I'm the Worldwide CEO of bbdo.
- [00:31]
C
And this is an opportunity, I think for us to have a conversation which will always be fun but maybe to have some other people get to know us. And maybe the first thing that you need to know is that I rope Nancy into this and so I'm going to try to stick the landing. But how do we feel about this? Okay, if you're listening, it's a big like smile, like a very being humored smile. And so I've got to get this thing on the road fast or I'm in big trouble.
- [00:58]
D
Yeah, move it along.
- [00:59]
C
So first question, how long have you known each other and how long have you been partners?
- [01:05]
D
I think we've known each other 20ish years and we've been partners three different times. So I think that's the best way to describe it. I always tell this story. You never remember the way we met at our first job, which was it could be Silverstein and Partners. You were a creative, you were a copywriter, I was an account executive. And after a really tough client meeting, you said, hey, if you ever want me to take the fall once in a while or the heat from the client, let me know because it seems like you take the heat a lot. I'm like, what a nice dude. I haven't seen that since. But that's how we, that's what I remember.
- [01:45]
C
I learned that you can really, this is why I've, this is why I'm so committed to the partnership is because I know you can, you can take the hits.
- [01:51]
D
Yeah. For you a lot. Yeah. Do you have a favorite project you've worked on with each other?
- [01:56]
C
I think there's like been some really big fun creative wins, like a big Pepsi super bowl campaign this year. That was kind of the, maybe one of the first things we brought in together at bbdo. There's some, some, you know, kind of award winning work we did together for Adidas, etc. Etc. Nancy kicked off the year at our management meeting with, with a big Talk about the rose colored glasses that we've committed to wear this year because it's a tough time and last year was a year of a lot of change and integration in our holding company and in our network. And this year it feels like it's the beginning of the year, but it's been six months and I feel like we are just off to the races and not really being too bothered or distracted by things going on in the headwinds. And I feel like in a crazy way, I feel like we're having a lot of fun. I don't know if you would second that, but I feel it.
- [02:50]
D
It's fun. I think it's fun. I think also when you lock in, you are pretty unstoppable. Like, I do remember when you came to tbwa, even though I agree that the thing we're doing with BBDO is the biggest, most important project of our lives. When you came to tbwa, which is the second time we partnered with, I remember you came in being like, we've got to get much closer to the client briefs. Why are we making so many versions of the client brief? And then we couldn't get work out the door and you came in and you were like, show me the client briefs. And I don't remember exactly how many. Maybe you do. But after that it was like 14, 15, 16 campaigns of the week in a row that we did because you kind of locked in. So I think when you lock in on something like that, I remember that thinking that was like an epic, like an epic moment in our partnership.
- [03:42]
C
That's fun. I think you and I are both, I think you and I both like to ride the pain train and take on these things. And so you, you know, it's, it's, it's fun when you have a compadre and like a crazy mission. And so right now it's, you know how while the industry is changing like crazy, we actually want to do the opposite of what the industry is doing and we want to increase the value and the perceived value that we bring to our clients while, you know, situations around us feel like otherwise. And then it was like, you know, kickstarting an agency and doing what we had to do to get the machine going. But in all those cases, it's kind of a, it's, you just kind of need to have a direction and a will and you need to. I would talk to people at that time about how we, we just fought back to back a lot. You know, we'd talk in the beginning of the day and we'd talk in the end of the day and we'd both go off and spend the whole day doing the thing we talked about. And. And since you're being complimentary and then maybe later we can get to you making fun of me, which is the natural state 80% of our dynamic. This is feeling uncomfortable for me. For you to be this nice is that it was, you know, if we started the day and it's like, you're gonna do these things and I'm do these things, my inclination would be to like, try to do these things, maybe try to have that hard conversation. But you always just executed the checklist. You would have hard conversations. You do difficult stuff. And it forced me to get to it a little bit more. And so I think that kind of fighting things back to back kind of made me just much more effective.
- [05:12]
D
Yeah, you've gotten better at that. And I think it's important at the end of the day to have somebody to report back to and to be accountable to. So I think knowing you were on the other side of that meant I had to deliver on what I said, otherwise I would be a total liar.
- [05:24]
C
All right, this is a good one for you. Definitely. What do you think the biggest challenge facing agencies today is? Oh, no, it's another softy one. And then how do you think the other person helps solve it?
- [05:37]
D
Yeah, you are dying for me to insult you, right? This is where.
- [05:40]
C
Well, because we had a big BBO dinner last night and I thoroughly enjoyed myself, but I did realize that I got roasted for like two hours.
- [05:49]
D
I mean, you provide very good material for us.
- [05:51]
C
Good. Yeah. Well, it's very nice to be at a table of seven and make sure that the six people got a good laugh.
- [05:58]
D
Yeah. Good. Thank you for that. Would you want to ask the question again?
- [06:02]
A
Yeah.
- [06:03]
C
Okay. Like what's the biggest challenge? And how does the other person. I suppose then I will need to answer that too. And how does the other person. The other person help solve it?
- [06:10]
D
Yeah. I think we continuously agree here that the biggest problem facing our industry is the lack of value we and some clients put on what it is that we do. Right. That creative is a commodity, it can be replaced by AI. It is of a lesser value than media and innovation and data. That's the biggest problem that we face. And then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy where the more that we hear it, the more that we believe it. And if we're not careful, we are now sort of falling into the trap of believing that creative should be undervalued. And we talk about creative and creativity as closely connected to the business as possible. And when that happens, then that's a big impact. And that, that's why we say you do big things, right? That's how you get to do big things. One of the biggest reasons why you help to support that sort of fight that we're on is because you are as connected to business as I have ever seen any creative person be. You're a hustler. That's just a. When I want to insult you, I call you shameless. But I think I can also call you a hustler. You will go and get it. And I think having a creative partner that will help will enjoy riffing and providing creative ideas in front of clients. The moment that you're sort of in front of them so willingly is amazing. You're sort of the best proof of what it is that we're talking about. And you work differently. You just do. That's my point. It doesn't sort of go back into an agency and down a bunch of layers. If you're in the room with a problem with the clients, just solve it now. And you're so good at that.
- [07:48]
C
Well, I think that's why, I think that's why we work well together and why, you know, we're really gelling with our team this year is because I think we've got a lot of people that like to run that way and that's been, you know, the cause of a ton of momentum. But I think again, you know, and we'll get, we must get to some non complimentary questions at some point. But I think that, I think you've always been someone that is always down with a great idea or even a good idea. And so I think also, you know, your ability to move fast and want to iterate and not go away and investigate or, you know, think too hard to run it through the process. That's also not common from the business lead either. So I think we both are convinced that both ourselves and our best people, which there are many, need to get upstream, get in those early conversations and make things happen in the room when possible, or if not very quickly because the process doesn't serve us in any way. We have all these brilliant people in our organization. They should be working with the clients directly, not going away and straying. Because no matter what, I'll give you one last compliment that I don't think I've given you before, but I also think the thing that I think you do, that you do for me but also, everyone in the organization is all this stuff no one sees and no one knows about. I think you also do a tremendous bit of work positioning myself and our whole group well and setting everyone up for success. And it's not the very obvious work of going to the meeting or making the big call. But I think we're an organization that's got a lot of personalities and to get people in the right place and furthermore, to position us well in the larger entity that we're part of is very quiet work. But what it does is, you know, things move easily and it's not for no reason, you know, And I think that's kind of. I think when we were at TBWA sometimes, but recently I think we did it as a joke. But I think sometimes Nancy can be spicy and I can be nicey. And that's not. And that's more of a knock on me because I'm not really that nicey, but I get to be nicely because Nancy is super direct, and then I get to follow up with a little wave and a smile. And I always thought. But my mission is, I do have to make sure that everyone knows that, like, Nancy is out there, like, on our behalf all the time, you know, trying to. Trying to make sure that we get what we deserve as an agency, both from the holding company we're part of and the clients we work with. And that kind of stuff is, again, it's quiet, quiet work that happens not in front of everyone, but that's a big part of the recipe.
- [10:28]
D
Thank you. By the way. We have agreed, though, we're going to shift, and sometimes I'm nicey and you're spicy.
- [10:33]
C
Yeah, well, that's. I think that's what you'd like. And. And I do think I owe that to you at some point. So I'll be. I'll be a dick to someone soon. Okay. Okay. All right. I like this. I like this. If someone joined BBDO tomorrow, what would you want them to understand about the place immediately?
- [10:56]
D
That if it doesn't move the business in a epically creative way, we don't care about it. It's not good enough.
- [11:04]
C
Oh, I like that. I was going to go right at the. You know, we're just here to solve business problems with ideas. But I think sometimes I get, as the creative person, I tend to get so fixated on trying to remind everyone that we're not here to work on a brief that a strategist wrote a week ago to have a meeting a week from now to talk about the Assets that are on the list. And I'm so obsessed with getting everyone's brain to like, what are you. What are you solving with this idea? And I appreciate that you said, and it's got to be the best idea, because sometimes I take that bit for granted. And I got to remember that. Yes. And we also have super high standards.
- [11:37]
D
Yeah, we have a bar. We have to have a bar, for sure. I mean, you do have a really good bar. I just think sometimes to bring a lot of people along, we inevitably lower it. And I think if the more we lower it, the more that we're not, you know, extraordinary. So we just have to keep pushing to be super extraordinary.
- [11:56]
C
Yep. And I think, by the way, I think part of that is also that, you know, there's. There's this great story when the great disruptive agency Crispin Porter and Bogusky was like, at their prime and maybe even maybe towards their peak, they started getting all these giant clients. And Alex Boguski went on the record and said, the problem with that was that clients would hire us because we were this, you know, big, bold, disruptive agency. But then they would think that hiring us was the bold move. And then they wanted safe work from us, you know, and I think, you know, I think I probably want to, you know, you know, you have. You have an incredibly high creative bar, and I want us to uphold it, but I also feel like the wrong people are talking about creativity too much because they feel like bureaucrats can say creativity is important and then it makes them not look like bureaucrats. And so I'm almost so bothered by the wrong people taking this beautiful word and saying it that I find, like, I don't talk about creativity a lot because I want to talk about how to get in more exciting opportunities. And then I just, I want us to own the creativity and bring something great. And that's, you know, we're diluted on it or something.
- [13:02]
D
Exactly. I mean, I think we get self conscious about these things. Like, remember a few years ago when we were having an internal debate? I think you and I were both on the same page, but there was a conversation as to whether or not we should be an advertising agency or if we should be an experience company or whatever it was that to us felt like, are we ashamed of what it is that we do? Don't we need to go out there and redefine what advertising is? We've lost the plot on it. We've lost the plot on creativity because everybody is saying it, but because everybody else is saying it doesn't mean that the people who invented it to some degree should walk away from it and say something else. You gotta, like, dig in and be more of that thing.
- [13:39]
C
Yeah, I feel like sometimes. I feel like there was a period where sometimes people would see a great piece of work back in the days when. And they'd be like, that transcends advertising. That's art. And I'm like, you just. Our industry, by saying, the best thing we do isn't what we do. We definitely do that. And, you know, and I think we keep bringing back the old stories of, you know, people keep talking about, like, a piece of work or a campaign. And, you know, a couple of our favorites are at the turn of last century through, you know, the former FCB brand that's now part of bbdo. They invented the notion of orange juice as a staple of the American breakfast. And the reason is that the client went to them with a brief and said, we grew too many oranges in Florida or in California. We grew too many oranges in California, so we need an idea to sell more oranges. And the agency said, don't try to sell more oranges. Make orange juice, and we'll sell it as a breakfast food. And so, like, that kind of thing is like, I want to be like, that's advertising. Like, it's not the stupid commercial at the end of it. It's the evil genius.
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B
Yeah.
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D
Yeah.
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C
Or maybe that's a pure genius. Okay. If we switch jobs for a day, it would be the first thing.
- [14:51]
D
I would crush it.
- [14:53]
C
And what would the first thing you would do to crush it be?
- [15:00]
D
You know, I don't know that I would do it differently than you. I just think I would be really good for, is all I'm saying. I mean, your thing is call clients. What's your problem? Let me solve it with something creative. I would do exactly the same thing. I would just be really good for a day. Yeah, that'd be awesome.
- [15:18]
C
You know, I don't know what I would do. I don't know what I would do. Because your job's pretty hard.
- [15:24]
D
You would figure it out. You would. You would be a dick to some people. That's what you said. That's when it would happen.
- [15:29]
C
Not our people. Not our people that are people that are threatening us.
- [15:33]
D
Bad people.
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C
Okay. Who's more competitive?
- [15:37]
D
I mean, I don't. I think we're both ridiculously competitive. You think?
- [15:42]
C
Yes, but I think I am. I think you're like an endurance athlete, and I'm a sprinter with the Competitiveness where I think I, I think you, you can play like a game of fortitude, a long game where you're just like, you see the big prize, the big win. I think I probably swing a lot, but I think it's, it's probably like a good match vibe because I think you're always trying to win the long game and I think I'm always probably trying to find like a quick little dopamine daily win. And I think if it, if it's working well, then we've got a long winning arc. And then I'm trying to like, you know, incrementally do little bits.
- [16:27]
D
I mean, the short game, the short bursts are probably one of the biggest reasons we can play a long game. Because if we weren't doing, if you weren't thinking of all of those quick short term wins, there would be no,
- [16:39]
C
you can't be building the case for us to do something big or make a big change. Yeah. So it's that and we team up on all those little bits. Okay. Who is more optimistic?
- [16:51]
D
I think we trade off on this. This is like as needed basis, I think. I mean, I feel like it was a good. Even though it was a sad moment, it's a good story because I think we do tend to play off one another. So if I'm down, you will find a way to bring me up. If you are down, I will find you a way. A way to bring you up. There was a thing last year, was it last year in this terrible year that you talked about, which is why we needed the rose colored glasses where we had a martini and we were both sad and that is known as the sad martini.
- [17:22]
C
As the sad martini.
- [17:23]
D
And we could not. We were just both in it. We were both like, I guess this is the way it's going to be. And we just kind of left in that state of oh my God, sad martini. And then you did the great thing of being like, we are not going to go down like that. That. So I think you went wherever you went. I went wherever I went in the sad martini. And then you probably sent me 50,000 text messages after that to be like, we are not going down like that. This. We got to turn this shit around. It's gonna be fine. It's gonna be great. And you came uptown to wherever I was and we had a happy martini or whatever.
- [17:56]
C
Happy was like. It was better. Let's fix this problem. We have martini.
- [18:01]
D
Yeah.
- [18:01]
C
And it felt pretty good. The sad martini was like, it usually like, you know, whatever a client problem. Like an agency problem there, you know? But this. I don't know, maybe we're both down, but it just seemed like an open problem. And it was like. It was so weird the whole day. Cause usually. Yeah, usually it's like you're being supported or you're supporting.
- [18:19]
D
Yeah, it's not like that. Yeah, it. That story ended up in a good martini.
- [18:23]
C
But if you ever have. I was conscious that someone's probably listening to this somewhere. If you have a sad martini, just take a beat and then make sure you have a. Like. It wasn't a bad martini.
- [18:34]
A
It was just.
- [18:35]
C
It was just a like.
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D
So we're not gonna go down like that.
- [18:37]
C
Like a. No pity. No more pity, Martin.
- [18:38]
D
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We're not pity people.
- [18:40]
C
No. No pity.
- [18:41]
A
And that's a wrap for this episode of Dynamic Duos.
- [18:44]
B
We'll be back on Wednesday for our weekly edition of the Big Impression it, where we sit down with marketing leaders to talk about their latest campaigns, biggest ideas, and what's shaping the industry today.
- [18:55]
A
Thanks for listening.
- [18:56]
B
Bye for now.