PNC Bank’s Jenn Garbach on reclaiming the word ‘boring’ for the legacy brand

Summary

Podcast Summary: PNC Bank’s Jenn Garbach on Reclaiming the Word ‘Boring’ for the Legacy Brand

The Current Podcast, hosted by Damian Fowler and Ilyse Lefring, delves into insightful conversations with leaders from influential brands. In this episode, released on March 18, 2025, they interview Jen Garbach, Chief Marketing Officer at PNC Bank, about the innovative campaign Brilliantly Boring. This summary encapsulates the key discussions, strategies, results, and personal insights shared during the conversation.

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1. Introduction to Jen Garbach and PNC Bank’s Vision

The episode kicks off with Ilyse Lefring introducing Jen Garbach and highlighting her role in transforming PNC Bank's marketing approach. PNC, a 160-year-old financial institution, aims to connect with modern consumers while maintaining its legacy.

Jen Garbach: “Brilliantly Boring has really been about taking that step forward, defining our brand in a way that brings distinction, resonance in a very, very crowded and commoditized financial services market and is really authentic to who we are as an organization at PNC.” [01:15]

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2. The Genesis of the “Brilliantly Boring” Campaign

Jen explains the rationale behind choosing the word "boring" for their campaign. Contrary to typical marketing norms, PNC decided to embrace "boring" to convey reliability and trustworthiness.

Jen Garbach: “Boring doesn't mean old stuck in our ways. What we're redefining boring as is steady, reliable, and trustworthy.” [01:55]

By reframing "boring," PNC underscores its long-standing presence and stability in the financial sector, addressing consumer desires for a dependable banking partner.

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3. Strategic Execution Across Multiple Channels

The campaign leverages a multi-channel strategy to maximize reach and engagement. PNC utilizes television, online platforms, video content, social media, and direct marketing to disseminate their message.

Jen Garbach: “We're across all mass channels right now. So you'll see us on TV, online, video, social media, and then pulling increasingly through our lower funnel and direct marketing.” [02:34]

This comprehensive approach ensures that the campaign resonates with a diverse audience, reinforcing PNC’s brand values consistently across all touchpoints.

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4. Measuring Success: Campaign Results

The Brilliantly Boring campaign has yielded impressive results, exceeding PNC’s expectations in several key performance indicators.

• Return on Ad Spend (ROAS): Increased by 12% compared to previous campaigns.
• Brand Lift: Notably higher with statistically significant improvement.
• Social Sentiment: Achieved the highest positive sentiment in PNC’s history.

Jen Garbach: “We have the highest positive social sentiment that we have ever had in our history of recording that. And that's really showing the kind of engagement and the fun and the humor shining through with this campaign.” [05:36]

These metrics demonstrate the campaign’s effectiveness in elevating PNC’s brand perception and fostering positive engagement among consumers.

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5. Internal Cultural Impact

Beyond external metrics, the campaign has significantly influenced PNC’s internal culture. It serves as a unifying force, aligning employees with the brand’s renewed identity.

Jen Garbach: “It's been a culture carrier and in some ways defining our brand in this way is giving folks a way to see themselves in the work that they do.” [06:57]

Employees across various departments, from credit underwriters to frontline staff, resonate with the Brilliantly Boring ethos, fostering a sense of pride and ownership in the brand’s direction.

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6. Addressing Industry Trust Issues

The financial industry has historically grappled with consumer distrust. PNC’s campaign aims to mitigate these concerns by emphasizing reliability and empathetic partnerships.

Jen Garbach: “Brilliantly Boring is a way for us to really help acknowledge some of that mistrust in the industry and signal that we have been steady and reliable this whole time.” [08:46]

By highlighting PNC’s enduring stability, the campaign reassures customers of the bank’s commitment to safeguarding their financial well-being amidst a rapidly evolving financial landscape.

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7. Balancing Legacy and Modernization

PNC faces the challenge of maintaining its legacy while innovating to meet contemporary consumer needs. Brilliantly Boring symbolizes this balance, retaining core values while embracing new marketing paradigms.

Jen Garbach: “We are a relationship-based organization that is something that is so near and dear to our hearts culturally and is a huge part of our success recipe.” [10:10]

The campaign signals PNC’s readiness to evolve, shedding outdated processes while preserving the foundational aspects that have driven its success for over a century.

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8. Leadership Insights: Navigating Challenges as a Female Marketing Leader

Transitioning to a more personal discussion, Jen shares her experiences and challenges as a woman in a leadership position within marketing.

Jen Garbach: “Balancing the art and science of marketing... recalibrating my personal and my professional expectations.” [11:36]

She highlights the ongoing process of managing multiple life pillars—family, career, friends, and health—emphasizing the necessity of intentional recalibration to maintain equilibrium.

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9. Overcoming Imposter Syndrome

Jen candidly discusses her struggles with imposter syndrome and the strategies she employs to overcome it.

Jen Garbach: “Is that story in your head, what feedback are you actually getting?” [14:14]

By seeking external feedback and differentiating perceptions from reality, she manages self-doubt and reinforces her confidence in her professional capabilities.

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10. Advocating for Diversity and Inclusion in Leadership

Jen expresses her aspirations for increased representation of women in executive roles within marketing.

Jen Garbach: “More different brains we have at the table, the broader our thinking, the better our collaboration.” [16:39]

She advocates for diverse leadership, believing that varied perspectives enhance decision-making and foster a more inclusive corporate environment.

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11. Conclusion: Key Takeaways

The episode concludes with reflections on the Brilliantly Boring campaign’s success and Jen’s personal insights.

• Reframing “Boring”: Transforming a typically negative term into a symbol of reliability and trust.
• Comprehensive Strategy: Utilizing multiple channels to effectively communicate the brand message.
• Positive Outcomes: Achieving significant improvements in key performance metrics and internal culture.
• Leadership and Personal Growth: Balancing professional aspirations with personal life, and advocating for diversity in leadership.

Kat Vessey: “It feels like we're putting PNC on stage with those other big banks that I'm used to seeing… Source of pride for folks to be able to see themselves.” [17:28]

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Final Thoughts

Jen Garbach's innovative approach with Brilliantly Boring exemplifies how legacy brands can successfully modernize without losing their foundational strengths. Her leadership journey offers valuable lessons on balancing multifaceted roles and advocating for inclusive leadership practices. PNC Bank’s strategic rebranding not only enhances its market presence but also strengthens internal cohesion, positioning it as a trustworthy partner for consumers in today’s dynamic financial landscape.

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For those interested in more insights from industry leaders, tune in to future episodes of The Current Podcast as they continue to explore transformative stories from the world’s most influential brands.

Transcript

[Kat Vessey]

I'm Kat Vessey.

[Ilyce Lefring]

And I'm Ilyce lefring.

[Kat Vessey]

And welcome to this edition of the current podcast.

[Ilyce Lefring]

In honor of International Women's Day and Women's Month, we're highlighting powerhouse women in marketing who are making an impact in their industries.

[Kat Vessey]

For this episode, we're thrilled to be joined by Jen Garbach, chief marketing officer at PNC bank, where she's redefining how a 160-year-old financial institution connects with modern consumers.

[Ilyce Lefring]

Jen and her team launched Brilliantly Boring, a campaign that leans to humor, trust, and authenticity.

[Kat Vessey]

We'll dive into the strategy behind the campaign, the results that made it a game changer, and how PNC is balancing modernization with legacy in an industry built on tradition.

[Ilyce Lefring]

Plus, we'll discuss Jen's insights on leadership and empowering women in the industry. Let's get started. So, Jen, it's wonderful for you to join us today at our studio at the Female Quotient Lounge during South by Southwest.

[Jen Garbach]

Thank you so much for having me. Yay.

[Ilyce Lefring]

So last July, PNC bank came up with the campaign Brilliantly Boring. It's the first work with your new agency of record, Arnold Worldwide. Why is this campaign a game changer for the 160-year-old brand?

[Jen Garbach]

Well, nothing infuses life and vigor into a brand like putting the word boring into it. But this has been a really fun opportunity for us to help match the growth trajectory of the business by rethinking the way we're telling the story about PNC in the marketplace. And so Brilliantly Boring has really been about taking that step forward, defining our brand in a way that brings distinction, resonance in a very, very crowded and commoditized financial services market and is really authentic to who we are as an organization at pnc.

[Ilyce Lefring]

Amazing. And why lean into the word boring by chance? The term is not, I guess, usually one you would associate with, like, a creative campaign.

[Jen Garbach]

It isn't, but it works so well for us. And I think the single biggest thing is boring is very authentic to who PNC is. And give me a moment, because what we're really proud of is redefining what boring means. Boring doesn't mean old stuck in our ways. What we're redefining boring as is steady, reliable, and trustworthy. And why that's really important to us is that we know financial services has seen, as an industry, has seen its ups and downs, not just recently, but frankly, over time. And so the ability to signal to our customers that we are a bank that is 160 years old and that we have been steady and reliable along the way is really important.

[Ilyce Lefring]

And how are you guys telling a story across, like, what channels?

[Jen Garbach]

We're across all mass channels right now. So you'll see us on tv, online, video, social media, and then pulling increasingly through our lower funnel and direct marketing. So that's been another fun part of bringing Brilliantly Boring to life in all aspects of PNC's marketing.

[Kat Vessey]

I love that reframe, too, and like reclaiming the word boring to make it something more meaningful and more related to steadiness of.

[Jen Garbach]

I think that's right. And what we hear in the marketplace, too, is while there's a lot of kind of pressure to keep up in the marketplace, and we are certainly innovating and bringing new products, new technology to market, when you do the consumer research, you do not hear people saying, you know what I want from my bank? A really flashy forward bank that is doing all of these technological things. People want their money to be there when they need it. They are looking for a steady, reliable partner. And frankly, they're not thinking about financial services all the time. But when they need their money, they want to know it's there and they have access to it. And that's at the nexus of redefining Brilliantly Boring is we'll do all the boring stuff behind the scenes so that you can live the brilliant life that you want. You can be the brilliant business owner and run your business the way that you want.

[Kat Vessey]

I love that. Less risks, less flash, more reliability.

[Jen Garbach]

That's right.

[Kat Vessey]

So it seems like PNC bank has not only undertaken a rehaul in terms of messaging, but a technical one as well. How has your previous experience as the head of global marketing, planning, operations and transformation at PayPal helped steer your strategy in reaching today's consumers for PNC Bank?

[Jen Garbach]

You know, I'm going to lean into the campaign for a second and bear with me on this one. Part of the content extension of Brilliantly Boring is our Boring Before Brilliance content series. And so we work with sports athletes like Scott Dixon, who's an Indy car racer, or Steve Stricker, who's a PGA golfer, and tell the story about all the kind of boring, repetitive, seemingly mundane aspects of their training routines that show up in these moments of brilliance, whether it's on the racetrack, on the course. And that really sits behind when I think about not only my experience, but what we're doing at pnc, which is operational excellence, is the foundation of what leads to brilliance, of how we go to market and how we're able to connect and resonate with customers. So I think a bunch of that experience before leading through many different forms of transformation is making sure that we don't ignore kind of the boring basics, those steady, reliable aspects of making sure we have process technology capabilities, that we're training the team and helping set them up to take advantage of all of those new capabilities. And then how that shows up is us really resonating in a different way through campaigns like Brilliantly Boring, but also in our one to one marketing, our personalization efforts and really bringing value and resonance to the customers that we're working with.

[Kat Vessey]

And let's shift into the results of this campaign. How is Brilliantly Boring performing? Is it reaching the right audience? Are you hitting everything that you set out to do with it? Any surprising results?

[Jen Garbach]

Yeah, we are really, really excited. So so far we are kind of firing on all dimensions right now. By the numbers. Our return on ad spend is up 12% compared to prior campaigns. Our brand lift is up with statistically significant increase. Which, you know, as we're on a growth trajectory as a bank moving from this super regional tier and competing increasingly with the big national banks, signaling that we are a big national bank, someone that consumers can trust. Seeing Lift in all of those metrics is really important and something that we were looking for, and I think the one that's really fun and gives us some real time feedback is we have the highest positive social sentiment that we have ever had in our history of recording that. And that's really showing the kind of engagement and the fun and the humor shining through with this campaign and how, I mean, you guys know, social is a channel that is very easy for folks to come in with kind of negative thoughts or complaints. And so the idea that we're able to create really positive engagement is a nice feedback loop and response for us right now.

[Ilyce Lefring]

And now I understand that the campaign not only moved the needle in terms of reaching customers, but also internally kind of working as a way to like center your corporate. The corporate PNC around guideposts. Can you explain why?

[Jen Garbach]

I think it's. Having a campaign like this has done a bunch of really great things for us. It's been a culture carrier and in some ways defining our brand in this way is giving folks a way to see themselves in the work that they do. You don't have to be in marketing to be a part of Brilliantly Boring. You can be a credit underwriter, you can be in operations, you can be in the front line working in the care center, in a branch and really Live and embody that spirit of brilliantly boring. It's also just help us give a story internally. So there's this mirror image of what we're trying to do with new breakthrough storytelling externally. But that same thing applies internally. One of the things I love most is hearing folks play back, hey, for the first time, like I'm watching our new TV ads and it feels like we're putting PNC on stage with those other big banks that I'm used to seeing, seeing other banks, other companies show up like this. And it's a source of pride for folks to be able to see themselves so really, really pleased that it is carrying that torch for us internally. And then it helps us connect further with, you know, the brand is not just the campaign. The brand is the culmination of all of our product, services and experiences. And so having folks feel that connected is really impactful.

[Ilyce Lefring]

Now, I want to take a moment and kind of see the big picture here because you mentioned before that we're living in a time of like, high, like distrust of banks. Now, how does this campaign, and then perhaps any future ones you're working on, like, what does it do to calm those consumers, like, fears in this area? Where is this fear coming from originally? And I guess really where does the responsibility of the marketer come in here?

[Jen Garbach]

I think it's being honest and really assessing the marketplace landscape that we're operating in today.

[Kat Vessey]

Right.

[Jen Garbach]

And while I may not be proud of it, it's fairly evident to be able to say that financial services has not exactly been a beloved industry to folks over the past 20 years. And again, you can look at bank failures at the beginning of last year, you can look back to 2008, there's this repeated history. But if you go back even further, kind of citing that 160 year history, there was a time when banking was a mainstay of the community. Right? Truly like a pillar on every main street in the community as that steady, reliable place. And so this is both coming from consumer feedback saying we are looking for that steady, reliable partner and also we're looking for an empathetic partner. And that is a place that in our history at pnc, we have always shined through as a partner that builds relationships with our customers and with our clients. And so I think brilliantly boring is a way for us to really help acknowledge some of that mistrust in the industry and signal that we have been steady and reliable this whole time. And that's in fact a differentiator in a time where things can Be very flashy fast. It's a lot changing in the financial environment overall. And it's actually a differentiator for us.

[Kat Vessey]

Creating that bit of FOMO too, I bet for people who maybe left and want to come back.

[Jen Garbach]

That's right.

[Kat Vessey]

With such a legacy brand like PNC bank, how do you balance what to carry into the future and what to refresh?

[Jen Garbach]

It's a great question I think about in any time of transition. And I'll define us in transition as just in growth mode, really being thoughtful about what you keep and what you leave behind. And I mentioned earlier that notion of we have always been a relationship based organization that is something that is so near and dear to our hearts culturally and is a huge part of our success recipe. So we are going to keep and hold that precious and showcase that frankly, as part of the brand. What we're going to leave behind and be willing to move on from is growing from a bank that used to be a regional based in Pittsburgh and now kind of operating at national scale. We've got to be ready to leave behind some of the processes, some of the things that we operated that way because it served us back in the day. And now we need to try new things. That includes being open to a bold new brand platform like brilliantly boring. So I think it's a nice signal of the willingness to embrace some new things that we never would have seen on our horizon in the past, but also keep true to the foundational parts of our culture, the ways of working that are really core to our success.

[Kat Vessey]

We're gonna pivot into some rapid fire Q and A in celebration of International Women's Day and Women's Month. So focusing on you as a female marketing leader, what has been your biggest challenge?

[Jen Garbach]

You know, I was thinking about this question and I think one, as a marketing leader, I think my biggest challenge has been being able to balance like the art and science of marketing. And as a woman leader, it's been the ability to constantly recalibrate my personal and my professional expectations and those end up bleeding together, you know, in these different intersections. And sometimes it ends up in the form of being one of few women at the table. But I do feel very lucky that I have worked for organizations that have really strong advocacy and where I do have other women at the table. But I would say balancing that that element of the function, that it can sometimes be written off as just creating creative when there's lots of science and data behind how we go to market. And then also the tension of, you know, I'M a mom, I'm a wife, I'm a friend. I have all these other dimensions and constantly recalibrating those expectations and how those play in with my aspirations and my leadership growth journey.

[Kat Vessey]

Have you crack the code? Because as also a mom and a marketer and, you know, trying to balance career growth and that trajectory, as well as wanting to be there for your kids and wanting to be a good spouse and wanting to be a great friend, I feel the same things you're talking about. Wondering if you have any advice on that.

[Jen Garbach]

I don't know that I can claim to have cracked the code, but the thing that has helped me is probably twofold. It's one, thinking about, I have these different pillars of my life, and I named some of them. It's my family, it's my career, it's my friends, it's my health. And it is seldom that all of those pillars are perfectly in place at any given time. And the second part is realizing that I use that phrase recalibration intentionally. It's. I need to recalibrate my own expectations of I can't give 100% energy to all of those aspects at all times. And so being really honest with myself of I'm in a, you know, surge mode career, which might means I'm being mean. I'm pulling back on family. And sometimes that's hard to acknowledge. But having that conversation with my family and rebalancing is really important. So that I think it's keeping it forefront and realizing it's not actually a point of arrival. It's a constant process.

[Kat Vessey]

Totally.

[Ilyce Lefring]

I love that a common qualm of women, I guess, is that they experience imposter syndrome. Being in any. This is across multiple industries, of course, but in marketing, it's. I feel like it's true. Have you experienced imposter syndrome in your career? And if so, I guess, how did you, like, push past it?

[Jen Garbach]

Absolutely. That feeling of, like, being called into the principal's office when you get an email or a phone call from a senior leader, or like, that feeling of, oh my gosh, this is the time they're gonna figure out I have no idea what I'm doing. I do think I have made significant growth personally in helping to manage that. And one of the things that's been really helpful is I've worked with a number of different coaches and this idea of what is the talk track that's in my head versus what is the reality of the feedback signals around me? And I actually had a leader that I worked with previously, who played this back really directly to me when I was sharing very openly about some of that challenge of feeling like I was underperforming. And he looked at me and said, jen, is that story in your head, what, what feedback are you actually getting? Who has told you that besides yourself? And so that's something, again, trying to keep in the forefront of my mind of is that a narrative I'm building for myself and does that match the feedback that I'm getting around me? And if it's disconnected, that might be a signal of it's just up in my head when all the other kind of signals are coming back being like, no, you're right in there. Keep going.

[Ilyce Lefring]

Right. And do you think women in marketing face different expectations or leadership challenges than their male counterparts? Kind of a tricky one. How do you navigate those?

[Jen Garbach]

Yeah, you know, one of the dynamics that I'm always cognizant of is probably more related to, again, marketing as a function. And I think because marketing is not always well understood broadly at an organization and can get reduced to the idea of it's producing creative, it can play into stereotypes about women and women workers. And so I think it's about, for me at least, it's been about building my leadership brand as a transformational leader and then grounding that in a broad general management skill set and really taking a data driven approach to marketing to help combat that. Yeah, there are lots of fun, creative parts of my job, but there's also a science and a math behind it and creating that accountability for myself and how I interact with my business partners to show outcomes. So that is something that I definitely think exists broadly. And I have tried to just balance for myself by thinking about what is that leadership brand for myself and what is my leadership philosophy in terms of leading a marketing organization.

[Kat Vessey]

As more women take on executive roles, what shifts do you hope to see in the way marketing organizations are structured and led?

[Jen Garbach]

I don't know if I have a great answer to how I want to see them structured and led. I think I just want to see more women in the leadership roles and the seats. I think, you know, I don't want to be reductive to how women lead. I think it's just the idea of the more different brains we have at the table, the broader our thinking, the better our collaboration. And so I think it's about getting more folks into the seats and finding out what that actually looks like.

[Kat Vessey]

Yeah. And not even gender. No, but not even gender specific. That could mean anyone. I think just diversity of Thought is so important.

[Jen Garbach]

Exactly.

[Ilyce Lefring]

Yeah.

[Jen Garbach]

Exactly.

[Kat Vessey]

Amazing. Well, Jen, thank you so much for the time. We really enjoyed this.

[Jen Garbach]

Thank you for having me. This has been fun.

[Kat Vessey]

Great. Wow. Another stellar conversation today. I'm just walking away, so inspired. I really loved how PNC bank and Jen Garbach have reclaimed the word boring. Obviously, it's the main point of our. It's so fun and a great way to reframe it into meaning. Something that is steady, something that is reliable. Taking that tradition of what PNC bank stands for and meeting the needs of what their customers told them they're looking for in a modern bank. It's just so cool. And really what a way to transition the brand.

[Ilyce Lefring]

Yeah. And for 160 year old legacy brand, that's hard to do. Yeah. It's really balancing what they want to carry into the future and what they want to refresh. And I feel like Jen was really good at describing exactly that and giving.

[Kat Vessey]

Their internal employees kind of like a battle cry or something to really rally behind, which is so important. Especially as she mentioned, their services are going on the national scale. It feels like a campaign that can really service anyone in the country at any age who really. You don't want the flash and pizzazz.

[Ilyce Lefring]

No.

[Kat Vessey]

You want to be able to live that way. Maybe with your finances being in order, but you kind of need the steadiness of.

[Ilyce Lefring]

It should be boring. It really should be boring. Be easy and boring. I also liked how she dug into imposter syndrome because I feel like that's very prevalent as women in marketing. And, you know, it was very fascinating how she had a boss who was like, I think that's just a story playing out in your head. Like, nobody's telling you this. Yeah.

[Kat Vessey]

And it's a good reminder. Yeah. To make sure that you're leveraging true feedback that's coming in and not creating your own story or perception. Because, you know, I think as women, we and in general marketers really strive to elevate the bar and everything they do. And I think it's important for everyone to remind themselves.

[Ilyce Lefring]

Yeah. You know, especially when you're perception versus reality. Handling everything like motherhood on top of.

[Kat Vessey]

That was another favorite moment for me. I think I was like, give me all the tips. Have you cracked the code? Has anyone cracked the code? Because, I mean, whether you're. Nope. Truth is. Nope. But I loved how she said you can't be 100% in any one pillar. And beyond just being a mom, she talked about health, being a good friend, surging in your career and managing when and how those surges come to. Come to fair. It just really gave me a lot to think about. I need to do some adjustments in my own life to make sure I'm not trying to surge.

[Ilyce Lefring]

That's my biggest takeaway. We all need to do adjustments.

[Kat Vessey]

Yeah.

[Ilyce Lefring]

Yep.

[Kat Vessey]

And that's it for this edition of the current podcast. Be sure to tune in this whole month as we release all the recordings from south by Southwest. See you next time.