Everything You Need to Know About the World Cup

Summary

The Daily — "Everything You Need to Know About the World Cup"

Date: June 6, 2026
Host: Natalie Kitroeff
Guest: Tarek Panja, New York Times Global Soccer Correspondent

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Episode Overview

In this special episode of The Daily, host Natalie Kitroeff and soccer correspondent Tarek Panja dive deep into the 2026 World Cup—the largest and most expansive edition yet. They explore the tournament's dramatic expansion, new host nations, the changing makeup of participating teams, rising ticket prices, and the emotional stakes for both superstar players and fans. Discussions span on-field favorites, potential underdog stories, the socio-political context, and the fan experience, offering a comprehensive, passionate primer on what’s set to be the world’s biggest sporting event.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Makes the 2026 World Cup Different?

[03:22 — 06:54]

• Largest Ever Tournament:
  • For the first time, the World Cup is hosted by three countries: the U.S., Mexico, and Canada, with matches in cities spanning from Los Angeles to New Jersey.
  • Quote: "This is the biggest tournament in terms of host nations. The number of host nations, three. That's never happened before." — Tarek Panja [03:22]
• Expanded Teams:
  • The tournament features 48 national teams (up from 32), making it the easiest World Cup to qualify for but increasing both excitement and logistical complexity.
  • Quote: “We’re going to have 72 group stage games … four games a day for 24 straight days.” — Tarek Panja [05:09]
• Political and Economic Motivations:
  • FIFA’s expansion serves internal politics—more teams mean more influence for FIFA’s leadership.
  • Quote: “When [the president] is able to give out more gifts, it’s much easier to be reelected.” — Tarek Panja [05:57]

2. New and Smaller Teams Enter the Global Stage

[06:54 — 09:38]

• First-timers and Fairy Tales: Countries like Curaçao (population 160,000), Jordan, and the Democratic Republic of Congo—many of which have faced turmoil or had limited soccer success—are making historic debuts or returns.
  • Quote: “The only thing I knew about Curacao, that it was a blue cocktail drink ... now they have qualified for the World Cup.” — Tarek Panja [07:14]
• Symbolism and Hope:
  • For countries facing hardship (Ebola in DR Congo, violence in Haiti), World Cup qualification provides rare national pride and hope.
  • Quote: “This is you being represented on the biggest stage.” — Tarek Panja [09:18]

3. The Underdogs & Dark Horses

[09:38 — 14:03]

• USA’s Unique Position:
  • The U.S. remains an underdog in men’s soccer, despite hosting.
  • Quote: “If their star man, Christian Pulisic, manages to put a bit of form together ... is there a chance that they can go deep? Yes, there’s a chance. Are they going to win the World Cup? Absolutely not.” — Tarek Panja [10:44]
• Other Dark Horses:
  • Ecuador, with its climate readiness; Norway, thanks to superstar Erling Haaland; and even Brazil—often a favorite but considered a “dark horse” due to muted expectations.

4. The Favorites: Kings of Europe

[14:03 — 19:07]

• Spain:
  • Led by teen prodigy Lamine Yamal, Spain is a favorite.
  • Quote: “Lamine Yamal ... doing things on the soccer field that make people who don’t even like the sport watch this guy, because what is this magic in this guy’s feet?” — Tarek Panja [14:58]
• France:
  • A talent machine, headlined by Kylian Mbappé, with depth that can absorb the absence of even their brightest stars.
  • Quote: “There is nowhere on planet earth that produces more top professional talent than France ... they have produced ... more and more top footballers.” — Tarek Panja [15:53]
• Other Contenders:
  • England (great squad with Harry Kane), Portugal (well-balanced), with Argentina notably predicted to struggle due to an aging squad.

5. The End of an Era: Legends’ Final Dance

[20:46 — 26:58]

• Lionel Messi & Argentina:
  • Messi’s (likely) last World Cup; emotional resonance and symbolic farewell, but questions about team viability.
  • Quote: “You want to remember these guys at their very best, at their very peak, not creaking old men just trying to break records.” — Tarek Panja [21:02]
• Other Veterans:
  • Cristiano Ronaldo (Portugal), Luka Modric (Croatia)—all pushing 40, each icon representing more than just soccer for their nations.
  • Quote: “Cristiano Ronaldo is extremely important to Portugal’s sense of itself, I would say ... these aren’t kind of soccer superstars. These are arguably the most famous people on the planet.” — Tarek Panja [25:33]

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Off-the-Field Drama: Ticket Prices & Fan Reaction

[28:39 — 36:07]

• Soaring Ticket Costs:
  • Ticket prices are 3–10 times higher than prior tournaments, with finals tickets reaching $10,000.
  • Quote: “For this World cup the ticket costs $10,000. That is ludicrous.” — Tarek Panja [29:04]
• Dynamic Pricing Confusion:
  • FIFA has introduced dynamic pricing, causing unpredictable spikes, confusion about seat categories, and legal threats from U.S. state attorneys.
  • Quote: “So far, what we've seen is not much coming down because the prices started very expensive and prices then shooting up.” — Tarek Panja [30:48]
• Fans’ Perspective:
  • Deep frustration and a sense of exploitation are widespread among traditional fans.
  • Argentines—often seen as the tournament’s most colorful fans—are going to extraordinary lengths:
    • Story of Mattias Celestino, whose wife quit her job to attend; for some, being part of the spectacle is a matter of national and personal identity.
    • Quote: “It's something you kind of have to do. Something is pushing you in that direction, and there's nothing that can stop you going.” — Tarek Panja [35:04]
• Community and Belonging:
  • Quoting Eduardo Galeano: “The true fan never says, ‘my team plays today.’ They say, ‘we play today.’”
  • The World Cup as a rare moment when “the I becomes we.” — [36:48]
  • Quote: “Almost like a Noah’s ark of global humanity, right? ... These moments are very hard to replicate at any other time.” — Tarek Panja [37:45]
  • For Americans, the event offers a unique chance to be part of this global experience—no ticket required for street-level festivities.

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Memorable Quotes & Notable Moments

• On FIFA’s Politics:
  “When [the president] is able to give out more gifts, it’s much easier to be reelected.” — Tarek Panja [05:57]
• On First-time Teams:
  “The only thing I knew about Curacao, that it was a blue cocktail drink ... now they have qualified for the World Cup.” — Tarek Panja [07:14]
• On U.S. Soccer:
  “Are they going to win the World Cup? Absolutely not.” — Tarek Panja [10:44]
• On Messi’s Legacy:
  “We’re never going to see anything like this again. Messi ... producing magic week after week ... as if he’s been controlled in a video game.” — Tarek Panja [22:17]
• On Fan Community:
  “Almost like a Noah’s ark of global humanity.” — Tarek Panja [37:45]
• On Being There:
  “Open your front door, step off the porch and go and meet everyone. This is a gathering of humanity unlike anything else.” — Tarek Panja [38:43]

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Segment Timestamps

• [03:22] – World Cup expansion and host cities breakdown
• [06:54] – Small nations and first-time qualifiers
• [09:38] – Underdogs and potential dark horses
• [14:03] – Tournament favorites and superstars
• [20:46] – The end of the Messi/Ronaldo era
• [28:39] – Ticket prices and fan reactions
• [36:48] – The community experience of the World Cup

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Tone & Style

The conversation is lively, passionate, accessible, and filled with both insight and humor. Tarek Panja brings expertise and storytelling while Natalie connects the discussion to personal anecdotes and broader cultural resonance. Both underscore the sense of wonder, controversy, and anticipation around the tournament.

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Conclusion

This episode offers soccer newcomers and superfans alike a rich, engaging crash course on the 2026 World Cup—their expectations, complications, cultural significance, and the drama both on and off the pitch. Whether you’re tuning in for Messi’s swan song or the global street parties, The Daily’s guide leaves you ready for kick-off.

Transcript

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[Natalie Kitroeff]

the new York Times, this is the Sunday Daily. I'm Natalie Kitroweff. We're coming to you a day early because tomorrow our colleagues at the interview are gonna drop an episode with Scott Pelley from 60 Minutes. He was just fired from CBS this week after a blow up with the program's new executive producer. So that's tomorrow. On today's show, we're gonna talk about what's set to be the most watched sports event on the planet, the 2026 World Cup. There's been no shortage of controversy surrounding this tournament, from exorbitant ticket prices to legal threats over those prices to the geopolitical tensions hanging over it all. But when the games begin this coming week, the focus will inevitably turn to the competition, which is bigger than ever this year. Big. Billions of people will be watching from all over the globe, screaming at their televisions, parading in the streets, painting their faces and beating drums in stadiums. So to get us all ready for this World cup, our global soccer correspondent, Tarek Panja tells us everything we need to know about the teams, the games, and the dramas that are about to captivate the world.

[Tarek Panja]

Foreign

[Natalie Kitroeff]

June 6th. Tarek, welcome to the Sunday Daily. From across the pond. It's wonderful to have you here.

[Tarek Panja]

It's wonderful to be with you.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

So you have been covering soccer for a very long time. How many World Cups have you been to? Remind me.

[Tarek Panja]

I've been to six. Then the next one will be my seventh.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

That's so many.

[Tarek Panja]

It sounds like a lot. You age with these tournaments as well. I'm a very old man now.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

Yeah. Were you a baby at your first one?

[Tarek Panja]

Yeah, almost. I went as a teenager with my brother. We had a fantastic summer in France in 1998. Who were you rooting for? I'm from England, so we were rooting for England, but it was just being at the World cup and around this international armada of fans was just fantastic.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

Okay, so you are something of a fan. I to situate myself, am the daughter of a fan. My dad is Greek and I think it would be an Understatement. To say that soccer is the single most important thing in his entire life. And for our purposes here today, we are coming to you, Tarik, because you're not just someone who's been to a lot of these things. You are an expert on this tournament. And from my understanding, the one we're about to see is very different. It's. It's bigger than ever. And for those of us who don't think about this every single day, I want to break this down. Let's start with what is new here? What makes this World cup special?

[Tarek Panja]

This is the biggest tournament in terms of host nations. The number of host nations, three. That's never happened before. You have Mexico, Canada, and the United States of America, which will have the bulk of the games, and all across the US So you're going from the west coast with Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, listed as host cities there. Then coming across, you've got Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, and Kansas City. And then Miami, Boston, Philadelphia, and then we have the final, which will be in New York. Well, actually in New Jersey. So that's a lot of places.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

So many different cities. It's insane.

[Tarek Panja]

Yeah.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

Okay. And there's also more teams, right? It's not just more cities, more places, more countries, but more actual participants.

[Tarek Panja]

Yeah. This is the other great innovation of this tournament. This is the first time we're going to have 48 teams at a FIFA World Cup. It has been 32 since that first World cup that I went to in 98 in France. And now we've added more teams. 48 teams in. It's arguably the easiest World cup to qualify for as well, because you have more teams. However, unfortunately for them, we're not going to see Italy.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

Yeah, they somehow found a way to not qualify for the easiest one to qualify for, which also includes Greece, which is my Dad's team. So, RIP to us, 48 teams is a lot. As you're saying, how many actual games need to be played between these teams in order to start eliminating them? Like, how long is this going to take?

[Tarek Panja]

We're going to have 72 group stage games. So that's the start of the tournament. The teams are divided into blocks of four. Twelve of these, and it's going to take a huge amount of time to eliminate 12 teams. Four games a day for 24 straight days. Is that too much? I guess we're gonna find out.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

Yeah. Or if you are extremely pumped about this, like I understand billions of people are. Is that just the right amount?

[Tarek Panja]

Well, you know, if you're an employer, I guess it's not what you want. You're gonna have a few people either being bleary eyed in the morning or not showing up to work because football.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

And why are they doing this? Why do they make it so much bigger?

[Tarek Panja]

Well, one of the reasons is pure football politics. FIFA is a membership organization of 211 nations. Every four years they gather to elect or re elect the president. And when he's able to give out more gifts, it's much easier to be reelected. So here we are. Gianni Infantino, the FIFA president, he's decided to expand it to 48 teams. So.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

So this serves him.

[Tarek Panja]

Yeah, of course. There's a glass half full way of looking at this as well. Adding more teams gives more countries more chances to play in the best tournament in the world. And now we are giving the opportunity to fans and populations all across the world who may have never sampled this to get that World cup magic in their country.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

Right. And the idea is that that magic is being shared because there are all these new smaller countries that are now getting a chance this year.

[Tarek Panja]

Yeah, smaller in the soccer sense, in the footballing world. These aren't powerhouse nations. Some geographically small, some maybe not so geographically small, but really haven't made a mark on the game significantly. So we must start with the smallest, please. Curacao.

[Sports Commentator]

Curacao have done it.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

Okay.

[Tarek Panja]

The only thing I knew about Curacao, that it was a blue cocktail drink.

[Sports Commentator]

A blue wave is heading to the

[Tarek Panja]

World cup, but it is a country in the Caribbean population of 160,000.

[Sports Commentator]

For the first time in their history, Curacao are World cup bounce, which would

[Tarek Panja]

be roughly two full Azteca stadiums in the, in Mexico City. Now they have qualified for the World Cup. That if you're living on a Caribbean island that's called Curacao, must be magical.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

And who's playing on that team where the total population is 160,000?

[Tarek Panja]

Well, the squad is made up of players born in the Netherlands with ancestral connections to Curacao. Could be parents, could be grandparents. And they are going to be donning the Curacao shirt, which I'm sure is going to be quite cool. There's also other countries there. Jordan, for example, they've qualified for the World Cup. We've got Iraq at the World Cup. Not a first time entrant, but Iraq in my lifetime, I can't remember Iraq at a World Cup. The same goes for the Democratic Republic of Congo. The last time they qualified for a World cup that country had a different name. It Was called Zaire. We've got Haiti. Big Haitian population in the United States.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

Yeah. And some of these countries are dealing with really hard times right now. I mean, the Democratic Republic of Congo is dealing with Ebola. Haiti has been having all of this violence now for years. I mean, you got to imagine for them, just seeing their players, these 11 men representing them on the field, that has to be so exciting.

[Tarek Panja]

It must be fantastic, because this is you being represented on the biggest stage. And, you know, some of the matchups, some of these guys could be up against Lionel Messi. Now, if you're a kid in any of these places, it gives you a chance to dream about these things. Someone like you could one day do this. It's fabulous.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

Okay, Are there dark horses in this World Cup? Anybody that's an underdog? Potential Cinderella stories, A team that could defy expectations that we should be watching for here.

[Tarek Panja]

So an underdog has never won a World cup, so that. That gives us a dilemma here when we're trying to pick dark horses. But this World cup, as we said, is different. 48 teams, three countries. Could we have a surprise?

[Natalie Kitroeff]

You've appropriately tempered expectations, I will say. Tarek.

[Tarek Panja]

So let me start with underdog number one, United States of America and the

[Sports Commentator]

USA can dream of reaching the quarterfinals.

[Tarek Panja]

This is not a good football team by any international measure. They're fine.

[Sports Commentator]

Hey, now, the country officially placed last at France 98.

[Tarek Panja]

But if you were to talk to. To odds makers, they would not be telling you that the United States is going to win the World Cup.

[Sports Commentator]

Two defeats in this international window for

[Tarek Panja]

the United States, however, home support they are playing in their own country. If they get on a run, if their star man, Christian Pulisic, manages to put a bit of form together, and the rest of the team back him up with that support, is there a chance that I can go deep? Yes, there's a chance. Are they going to win the World Cup? Absolutely not.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

It's worth saying that this is really the one sport where the United States is reliably an underdog. Americans are used to dominating international sporting events, winning all the gold medals, for example. And now we're talking about them as basically an impossibility to win this thing.

[Tarek Panja]

Yeah, I mean, the US have never really made a big impact on. On global soccer. They've done well at previous World Cups. They've got through the group stages.

[Sports Commentator]

Before this World cup, the USA had only ever won two games in the World cup finals. Well, they'll remember this day, all right.

[Tarek Panja]

They've given a Good account of themselves, but there's been no expectation of anyone that they should have gone any further. But there are only ever two teams on a football pitch at once, on a soccer field at once. And one of them's going to win, right? Who knows the luck of the bounce? The referee's decision goes your way. You're through to the next round, aren't you? So let's see how that goes.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

Okay? So anything can happen. I'm going to pin my hopes on that. For the US Team? Who else? What other dark horses?

[Tarek Panja]

I think one that is interesting is Ecuador. From South America. Used to the climate. This is going to be played in searingly hot weather in stadiums when they are not climate controlled. So Ecuador is one to watch, and I will give you a European selection as well.

[Sports Commentator]

Norway and Norway are showing just why they are going to win this group.

[Tarek Panja]

Norway haven't been at the World cup since 1998, but have one of the true superstars in the forward, Erling Haaland, who seems to score for fun.

[Sports Commentator]

Some finish that from Erling Haaland, and

[Tarek Panja]

you need goals to win soccer games. So if big Erling scores lots of goals, Norway could be there towards the end of the tournament.

[Sports Commentator]

Haaland's waiting in the middle again. It's reached him again. He's scored again two goals in less than a minute.

[Tarek Panja]

In terms of dark horses, and normally they'd be among the favorites because of the name. When I think World Cup, I think Brazil.

[Sports Commentator]

The fans are spilling onto the pitch here, but Brazil in sumptuous form.

[Tarek Panja]

Those canary yellow shirts, those images of Pele lifting the trophy. But we're not talking about Brazil at this World Cup. People haven't been talking about them, and that's why I'm going to put them in the dark horse category. They're not in the conversation. However, Brazil could be there at the end of the tournament.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

Okay, let's talk about the big dogs, the heavies, who are the favorites?

[Tarek Panja]

The heavy favorites for this tournament are all from Europe. We have Spain.

[Sports Commentator]

The referee blows his whistle and Spain,

[Tarek Panja]

the current European champion, the old kings

[Sports Commentator]

of European football regain the crown.

[Tarek Panja]

They've got a superstar in Lamine Yamal.

[Sports Commentator]

What a goal that was. Lamin Yamal.

[Tarek Panja]

Oh, you're looking at the soccer has been dominated by Messi, the Argentinian great, and Ronaldo, the Portuguese superstar. As it's been so hard for anyone else to cut through this until now. Quickly, three players converge, but he's beaten them all.

[Sports Commentator]

Lamin Yamal. Oh, wow.

[Tarek Panja]

Lamin Yamal. This teenager who is uber confident, uber skillful, playing for one of the biggest teams in the world in Barcelona and playing like it's not hard work. He's doing things on the. On the soccer field that make people who don't even like the sport watch this guy, because what is this magic in this guy's feet?

[Sports Commentator]

And Yamal scores again.

[Tarek Panja]

That was rifled so Lamine could. Could emerge as the superstar of this World cup, as someone who already is a superstar of the football world.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

Okay, so you have Spain led by this young star in Lamina Mall. Who else?

[Tarek Panja]

I think every World cup now will always have a strong French team. There is nowhere on planet earth that produces more top professional talent than France, and in particular, the greater Paris region. It is churning out these players every single day.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

What's going on over there?

[Tarek Panja]

There is a mix of the diaspora, the French colonial influence from back in the day, and the people that have moved to France, made their homes in Paris. These families, whether they are from West Africa, where they are from North Africa, the Caribbean, they have produced since I was a kid, more and more top footballers. And here we are at another World Cup.

[Sports Commentator]

What a touch by Kylian Mbappe. What a goal by Kylian Mbappe.

[Tarek Panja]

We've got Kylian Mbappe. Mbappe. Mbappe. Mbappe.

[Sports Commentator]

Mbappe scores.

[Tarek Panja]

He scored three goals in the World cup final in Qatar in 2022. They lost that game.

[Sports Commentator]

Argentina, champions of the world.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

It's crazy to score a hat trick in a World cup final and still not win, just to note.

[Tarek Panja]

But, you know, he can't be too sad because four years before that, just out of his teens, he won the World Cup.

[Sports Commentator]

It is France alleble.

[Tarek Panja]

And then since then, though, there's like more players have come through this attacking lineup. If Kylian Mbappe caught the flu and couldn't play for a few weeks or misses the World cup, would France lose that much? Any other team would. But then you have Desiree Douay from Paris Saint Germain, who's just won the Champions League with his team.

[Sports Commentator]

Duet got a shot away despite the presence of four red shirts.

[Tarek Panja]

You have Ousmane Dembele, who played in the same game in the same attack.

[Sports Commentator]

Dembele sings rather away.

[Tarek Panja]

You know, the list of goes on and on. We could have a podcast just going through great French football players, right?

[Natalie Kitroeff]

It's like the Harlem Globetrotters several times over.

[Tarek Panja]

It is, it is. And there's other teams that are in contention. This is the day we've all been waiting for.

[Sports Commentator]

The final of the eighth World cup competition between England, the host nation, and West Germany.

[Tarek Panja]

You have England not having won the World cup since 1966.

[Sports Commentator]

And here comes Hurst. He's got some people are on the pitch. They think it's all over. It is now it's four. Slip through Kane. Is this the hat trick moment? Harry Kane.

[Tarek Panja]

They've got a great squad led by Harry Kane, a great center forward, remarkable, relentless. If he starts scoring goals, England have a chance. And equally Portugal, they've got a very well balanced squad. They've got great players. All these teams on their day could beat each other. That, that I think is super interesting. The one team I think will not be there at the end, Los Santo Amigos is Argentina.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

Okay, I want to talk about Argentina and specifically the great Lionel Messi. But first, let's take a quick break. We'll be right back.

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[Natalie Kitroeff]

Let's talk about Argentina. These are the reigning champs from the last World cup in 2022. Messi said that was his last World Cup. Now he's saying this is actually his last World Cup. Is this really his last? Should we trust him?

[Tarek Panja]

You kind of got to hope it's his last because you want to remember these guys and at their very best, at their very peak, not creaking old men just trying to break records for playing in World Cups. I think it was inevitable he was going to play in the World cup because he's still adored by Argentina. He still wants to play. And I think if Messi says he wants to play, he gets to play. And he's. He's still very good at football. Let's see. Let's see how it rolls. But this is a very, I think, old team, an aging team. There's too many players who played in the previous World Cups who are going to be with Argentina. I think this might be one tournament too many for a lot of those guys. And I think Argentina could lose and be eliminated against the first good team they come up against.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

Even so, even if your prediction comes true, and it might not, but even if it does, there is something beautiful and poignant about watching what does seem to be the last stand for the player that many consider to be the greatest of all time in this sport. Messi, just talk about that, that end of an era moment that we're about to see.

[Tarek Panja]

I think, quite frankly, we're never going to see anything like this again. Messi.

[Sports Commentator]

Oh, absolutely astounding.

[Tarek Panja]

This diminutive magician, sort of with floppy hair, arrived as a teenager at Barcelona and wowed the world for two decades. He doesn't look like an athlete, yet he's on the field doing these things that we can't imagine and producing magic week after week. He reminds a lot of people, me included, of one of those players, as if he's been controlled in a video game. The ball is at his mercy. I don't think we will see the like of this again, certainly not in terms of its longevity.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

Well, that is going to be very special to watch. My understanding is he's not the only old head in this thing, right, Tarik? There's others for whom this may be the last one.

[Tarek Panja]

This is the last harrah for a group of. Of players who seem to have gone on and on and on. This is. This is a group of players who, unlike the past, seem to have kept themselves so fit, in peak condition that they are playing into their 40s or close to their 40s. And the first one you have to think about, Ronaldo is Cristiano Ronaldo.

[Sports Commentator]

Oh, genius. Absolute genius. Up over the wall, down under the crossbar.

[Tarek Panja]

Yes. He's playing in Saudi Arabia now, as you mentioned before, in Europe. My work, it's done. I won everything I played. But again, like Messi, he dominated the sport for 20 years.

[Sports Commentator]

And then Ronaldo. Oh, My Cristiano Ronaldo, the greatest marksman in the history of the Champions League,

[Tarek Panja]

with an absolute beauty, Luka Modric.

[Sports Commentator]

Modric. Now he'll unleash one sensational goal from

[Tarek Panja]

Luka Modric, great Croatian tactician in the midfield, a great captain of the Croatian teams.

[Sports Commentator]

And surely now Croatia's golden generation are on their way to the last 16.

[Tarek Panja]

This could be the last games he plays. I wonder if he might even retire after the World Cup. A true hero to the Croatian people. But it is this kind of attachment between player and nation, fan and nation. It's kind of a bit of alchemy that requires all of these things to come together.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

Right. The thing is about having these men pushing 40 in this tournament and still doing it is that these countries have had so long to build this intense relationship to them, you know, so it's not just like any other player. This is like your native son, truly.

[Tarek Panja]

Absolutely. I mean, Portugal and Ronaldo, for example, he is the most important figure in that country, whether it's business, politics, culture. Cristiano Ronaldo is. Is extremely important to Portugal's sense of itself, I would say. And also with Messi and Ronaldo in particular, these aren't kind of soccer superstars. These are arguably the most famous people on the planet. I think Ronaldo has more Instagram followers than any other human being. And then I think it's Messi's number three, and they're sandwiched by Taylor Swift or somebody like that.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

The only person who could come close.

[Tarek Panja]

Yeah. And that tells you something about those guys. It tells you something about this sport and where its place in the global conversation, in our modern culture. And then it tells you something, I guess, also, as we're entering it, about the World Cups. You've got the most famous people playing the biggest sport or the most biggest cultural expression of humanity at the moment, and then playing at this stage, which is the stage that the entire world tunes in for. So, in other words, this is big.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

Okay, let's take one more quick break, and then we're going to talk about something else that is big. This World cup, which is ticket prices. We'll be right back.

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[Natalie Kitroeff]

So Tariq, now that we have I think the on field dramas covered more or less, I want to talk about the main off field drama that has consumed the conversation about the World cup which is how crazy expensive it has been to get a ticket. Just walk me through these prices. My understanding is they have been just absolutely extraordinary.

[Tarek Panja]

These prices are eye wateringly expensive for average football fans, average World cup fans, people who go to tournaments. So we are talking three times to 10 times more than they cost in Qatar which was already the most expensive World Cup. And I'll give you an example. The World cup final, the most expensive ticket for the category one which is the top category outside of VIP for Qatar was about $1,000. For this World cup the ticket costs $10,000. That is ludicrous. And fans around the world have been tearing their hair out over these prices. How can we be expected to follow our teams at these prices? So the prices that I'm talking about are in the hundreds of dollars to the thousands of dollars.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

And why are they so expensive this time around?

[Tarek Panja]

They're expensive because the World cup is where it is. Particularly in the United States of America. There is a sense that FIFA can generate greater returns because there is a wealthier population, quite frankly in the US that can spend hundreds of dollars if not thousands of dollars per game on World cup tickets. There's also for the first time in the history of this tournament something called dynamic pricing. Those of us who have booked flights or hotels might be used to this how on Monday the flight was $200 and suddenly you waited two days and that's now $500.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

So annoying.

[Tarek Panja]

Yeah, FIFA have thought this would Be bright. Why don't we do this? Why don't we decide to have World cup tickets for these 104 games dynamically priced? So the idea was, depending on the demand, the prices would fluctuate lower if there isn't that great demand for those games, or spike if there is a lot of people wanting to do this. So far, what we've seen is not much coming down because the prices started very expensive and prices then shooting up. $800 for a group stage game, thousand dollars for a group stage game. Then you get into the knockouts. And then fans are also confused as to where they're going to be sitting because FIFA keep changing the categories. The seats are designated into pricing categories depending on where they are in the stadium. And fans have now complained that, hang on, I paid for this category. Why am I now in the nosebleeds? And what is this new category that's emerged? So there's a lot of confusion, so much confusion, in fact, that the Attorney Generals of New Jersey and New York have talked about starting legal proceedings against FIFA over this.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

And what are the fans saying? These are people who are used to sacrificing a lot for World Cups. Do they see this as well, it's an annoyance that we must bear, or are they revolting? What's the vibe?

[Tarek Panja]

The fans are furious and disappointed and it doesn't matter where you go. They feel exploited. They feel their passions have been exploited and they feel kind of abused. And to that point, I decided to go to Buenos Aires, the capital of Argentina, to try and put a human face to this. Because in my experience, in the last three, four World Cups, I've been to, one of the most eye catching backdrops of these tournaments have been the sheer number of Argentines who find a way to get to the World cup and to make it a World cup with flags, with songs, with atmosphere. Their fans are protagonists from the stands in the way the players are on the field. And I thought, this must be impossible for these people who are so obsessed with the World cup to face ticket prices like this. What are they going to do and what'd you find?

[Natalie Kitroeff]

What are they doing?

[Tarek Panja]

So, you know, I went to an asada or a barbecue of Argentine fans preparing to go to the World cup at a park in, in Buenos Aires. Four, in this case, three and a half hours, to organize and save, to get a sense of the extremes. There's a guy I met called Mattias Celestino, he is so obsessed with Argentina, he went to every single one of their qualifying games. So they played games across South America. He went to 18 matches, nine in Argentina, nine overseas, as far away as Venezuela, all across the region, to be there for Argentina and to hammer his drum, to beat his drum in support of this. He's one of the drummers in support of this team. But this is the first World Cup. He said that he's taking his wife and son to. My wife to go with me to the World cup is going to resign to quit the job, and she could not get time off work. So guess what she did. She's quit her job.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

What? She quit her job for the World Cup.

[Tarek Panja]

It's. It's the obsession, it's the passion,

[Natalie Kitroeff]

it's the sentiment that we have.

[Tarek Panja]

It's something you kind of have to do. Something is pushing you in that direction, and there's nothing that can stop you going.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

How common is that? Are all of the people that you're talking to in Argentina telling you they're willing to go that far to get to the games?

[Tarek Panja]

It's common enough. However, there are people who are feeling this is just a step too far. This is one World cup they may have to miss because of the prices. However, there's people who are so obsessed with the World cup, so obsessed with Argentina, the World cup, they're willing to travel, to just be part of the atmosphere, to get near to the World Cup. As someone said to me, I want to be with my people at the World Cup. It is this kind of need to be there that verges on the religious in a way, that we have to make this pilgrimage to be at this thing. Because Argentina at the World cup is the stage for our nation, and we must represent ourselves there.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

All of this reminds me of this thing that the Latin American writer Eduardo Galliano, who wrote a lot about soccer, said about soccer fandom. He said, the true fan never says, my team plays today. They say, we play today. And then he talks about what happens when the fans leave the stadium. And I remember this quote. He says, the fan returns to his solitude, to the I who had been we. And I know this because my dad is a huge soccer fan. And he used to cite this, but he cited it in reverse when he told it to me as a kid. He said, when the fan enters the stadium, the I becomes we.

[Tarek Panja]

That is fantastic, and that is the experience. There is something truly magical of being part of a World cup, part of your team's journey in the World Cup. The best part is as it gets really close the night before that first game, the fans have already made their journeys into wherever they're going to be. The excitement. Their team hasn't lost yet. Everything is still possible. But they're out in this new country. They're wearing their colors. They're seeing fans from all over the world wearing their colors. And I remember the night before the opening game of the 2018 World cup in Russia. There's a street in Moscow called Nikolovskaya street. And that place was truly incredible before the tournament opened because it's a long street. You see these fans, Egyptians, Brazilians, Argentines, Saudis, Mexicans, and on and on, communing, singing, swapping shirts, swapping stories. Almost like a Noah's ark of global humanity, right? Of people in this one place. And this is before a ball has been kicked. Honestly, for me, these moments are very hard to replicate at any other time.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

It makes me feel really lucky to live in the New York area when all of this will be happening, like right outside our doorstep. And it sounds like Americans in general should just feel excited to experience this, this precise kind of community that is going to spill out onto our streets.

[Tarek Panja]

And guess what? It's free. No dynamic pricing. Open your front door, step off the porch and go and meet everyone. This is a gathering of humanity unlike anything else.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

Well, Tarek, thank you so much and have a wonderful World Cup.

[Tarek Panja]

Thank you. Great to be with you.

[Natalie Kitroeff]

Today's episode was produced by Tina Antolini with help from Alex Baron and Luke Van der Plug. It was edited by Wendy Dore, production assistants from Dalia Haddad. It contains music by Diane Wong, Rowan Nimisto, Dan Powell, Corey Schreppel and Marion Lozano and was engineered by Rowan Nimisto. Special thanks to Henry Bushnell. That's it for the Sunday Daily. I'm Natalie Kitroweff. See you on Monday.

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