The Fallout of Massive Earthquakes for Venezuela — and the U.S.

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Fallout of Massive Earthquakes for Venezuela — and the U.S.

Podcast: The Daily
Host: The New York Times (Natalie Kitroeff, Michael Barbaro, Rachel Abrams)
Date: July 2, 2026
Guests & Voices: Carlos Prieto (NYT producer), Carlos Yalambi (Venezuelan comedian), Anatoly Khmernaev (NYT correspondent)

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Overview

This episode examines the aftermath of two devastating earthquakes that struck Venezuela, focusing on the human, political, and international fallout. The hosts and reporters talk with Venezuelans on the ground, document the scale of the disaster, and analyze how the catastrophe has impacted U.S.-Venezuela relations—especially under the Trump administration’s direct involvement. The episode also highlights the unprecedented scale of civilian volunteerism and what it means for a country long marred by authoritarian rule and social fragmentation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Earthquake Strikes: First-Hand Accounts

• Chaos and Destruction:
  Venezuelans interviewed describe terrifying, surreal scenes as the earthquakes hit—cars sliding, utility poles falling, buildings collapsing, and phone networks suddenly going dark.
• Loss of Communication & Panic:
  Survivors had no way to know the disaster's scope due to countrywide outages. Carlos Yalambi recalls (03:52) seeing footage and thinking, “the city is lost.”

“You could see people screaming and running… light posts and the electrical post falling down… people screaming while the electricity sparkles were just going everywhere.”
— Carlos Prieto, 01:29

2. On the Ground in La Guaira: Catastrophe Unfolds

• First-Person Reporting:
  Anatoly Khmernaev describes arriving in La Guaira—normally a vacation spot but now a zone of devastation, with entire blocks flattened and the unmistakable scent of death in the air.
• Scale of Disaster:
  Official death toll at the time of reporting: ~2,000, with fears it may rise above 10,000; missing counts are unreliable, possibly greatly underestimated (08:26–08:56).

“The smell of rot… of decayed flesh… I have never really thought about how death smells. And this was very much it.”
— Anatoly Khmernaev, 07:10

3. Why Was the Damage So Severe?

• Political Decisions and Construction Flaws:
  Many buildings most severely damaged were social housing constructed rapidly in the Chávez and Maduro eras, often for political gain. Questions abound regarding corruption, rushed construction, and disregard for seismic readiness (09:11–11:03).
• Shift from State Socialism to Market Retreat:
  Under President Delsey Rodriguez, Venezuela moved from state-provided services to a market-driven approach. This withdrawal meant disaster response capabilities were hollowed out, and when catastrophe struck, there was no state infrastructure to coordinate rescue and aid (12:29–15:36).
• Political Paranoia:
  Maduro's efforts to “atomize” the Venezuelan state (splitting state power into disconnected fiefdoms to avoid coups) left the country unable to mount a coordinated disaster response.

“When a natural disaster strikes… the shortcomings of her [Rodriguez’s] policies became very much apparent.”
— Anatoly Khmernaev, 14:48

4. U.S. Involvement Changes Everything

• Trump Administration's Direct Role:
  After Maduro’s removal earlier in the year, the Trump administration (notably Secretary of State Marco Rubio) has direct control over Venezuela’s government finances and some policy decisions, further complicating disaster response (17:09–18:06).

“It is literally Marco Rubio, US Secretary of State, and his team that make everyday decisions how Venezuela is run…”
— Anatoly Khmernaev, 17:35

• Aid & Logistics:
  After a delayed response, U.S. military and aid arrive. 900 American soldiers are on the ground. $300 million in aid is pledged, and U.S. logistical muscle becomes crucial for recovery (29:02).

5. Civilian Volunteerism: Society Steps Up

• Lack of State Response:
  In the crucial first 24–48 hours, survivors and civilians found themselves almost entirely alone—no government rescue efforts, no police or military help (22:01–22:42).
• Mass Mobilization:
  Ordinary Venezuelans organized food and supply deliveries, formed volunteer rescue groups, and provided direct support in the disaster zones.

“Every day we wake up and went down to give it to the people… A lot of people from abroad started messaging me, asking me to reach their families.”
— Carlos Yalambi, 22:59–23:54

• Emotional Impact:
  The scale of community effort across class lines—rich and poor helping alike—brings “tears to my eyes,” shares Anatoly. The unity directly contradicts authoritarian attempts to atomize society (26:34–27:56).

6. Political Fallout: U.S.-Venezuela Relationship & the Future of Democracy

• U.S.–Rodriguez Alliance Deepens:
  The earthquake’s aftermath strengthens U.S. ties with the current government, complicating long-standing criticisms of Rodriguez’s legitimacy and Venezuela’s sovereignty (29:59–30:55).
• Opposition Sidelined:
  With opposition leader Maria Corina Machado in exile, her pleas to return (and help) are rebuffed by both the U.S. and Rodriguez’s government on grounds they would stoke unrest (32:07–34:26).
• Democratic Aspirations vs. Reality:
  While the U.S. had set a three-phase plan (economic recovery, stabilization, political transition/elections), the disaster pushes free elections further into the future. Civil society’s desire for democracy is growing, but conditions for its emergence worsen (30:55–36:39).

“Perhaps the greatest paradox of what we see… is that while the material conditions for elections and democracy are moving further away… the desire for political voice has risen dramatically.”
— Anatoly Khmernaev, 39:00

• High Stakes for All:
  The earthquake’s aftermath could make or break Rodriguez’s government, the opposition’s relevance, and Trump’s foreign policy narrative—a “crucial test of a narrative,” as the U.S. now shares responsibility for Venezuela’s recovery (35:13).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The city is lost.” — Carlos Yalambi (03:52)
• “There were so many places where people were screaming from inside of the rubble, but there was absolutely nothing they could do.” — Carlos Prieto (22:01)
• "We’re just putting band aids at a massive problem that will not be solved without organized state involvement." — Anatoly Khmernaev (27:56)
• “Winston Churchill once said, never let a good crisis go to waste. And there’s so much at stake for everyone involved.” — Anatoly Khmernaev (35:13)

Human Moments

• Rescuing Loved Ones: Carlos Yalambi and friends search for two missing mothers—finding one safe after meeting a man at a bus stop who turns out to be her brother (39:33–40:51).

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Important Timestamps

• 01:29: First-hand account of the earthquake chaos
• 03:52: "The city is lost"—realization of scale
• 07:10: Description of destruction and scent of death in La Guaira
• 08:26: Death and missing numbers
• 09:11–11:03: Analysis of construction and political responsibility
• 12:29–15:36: Economic shift and state capacity erode
• 17:09–18:06: U.S. direct control and surreal scenes
• 22:01–23:54: Civilian action in the absence of a state
• 26:34–27:56: Remarkable universality of civilian mobilization
• 29:02: U.S. aid specifics
• 30:55–36:39: Political stakes and future implications for democracy
• 39:33–40:51: Reunion with a missing mother

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Conclusion

This episode provides a nuanced, human-centered account of one of Venezuela’s greatest modern disasters. It illustrates how endemic governmental dysfunction, international power shifts, and a hollowed-out state collided in crisis—but also how in the vacuum, citizens found new collective strength. Meanwhile, the U.S. is thrust into direct stewardship of Venezuelan recovery, making the country’s fate a test case for all involved. The episode closes with the paradox: material prospects for democracy recede, but Venezuelans’ thirst for collective action and voice has never been more urgent.

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Transcript

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[Natalie Kitroleff]

the new York Times I'm Natalie Kit. This is the Daily.

[Carlos Prieto]

Hola, carlos.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

Last week, after two massive earthquakes struck Venezuela, my colleague Carlos Prieto started calling people there.

[Paul Tanorio]

Ok, perfect.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

Carlos is from Venezuela. He spent his childhood in the capital, Caracas. But when he started to see pictures and videos of the damage, he realized he couldn't even recognize parts of his hometown. So he asked people how it all started.

[Carlos Prieto]

I was actually at my best friend's house and I was going back to my house.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

Natasha Villa was driving when the ground started to move.

[Carlos Prieto]

I started feeling my car just sliding from side to side. I thought that it was the feeling of when you're driving on top of water so you feel like the car is just sliding. You could see people screaming and running out of the street. You could see the light post and the electrical post falling down in the street and the people screaming while the electricity sparkles were just going everywhere.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

She had no idea how extensive the damage was.

[Carlos Prieto]

I didn't have signal in my phone at all because the network had fallen completely.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

With power outages all over the country and phone lines collapsed, there was no

[Carlos Prieto]

way to communicate with my friends.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

Much of Venezuela didn't know either.

[Carlos Yalambi]

We had no idea what was happening. So I waited for a friend who had a car and we drove around the city trying to find a signal.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

Carlos Yalambi is a comedian. He was supposed to perform at a standup show that night.

[Carlos Yalambi]

So yeah, once we found the signal,

[Natalie Kitroleff]

when he finally got access to the Internet, he couldn't believe what was coming up on his phone.

[Paul Tanorio]

What was the first thing that you saw?

[Carlos Yalambi]

The first thing I saw was like some buildings collapse and we have some friends who live next to the first building that fell off in Caracas. Like, hey, our friend is alive, but probably a lot of people in the building next to him are not.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

And then he saw More.

[Carlos Yalambi]

Then, as we checked the news, we saw, oh, okay, so that was not the only building that fell.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

He saw building after building collapsed in Caracas. But nothing prepared him for what had happened in La Guayra, a state on the country's northern coast.

[Carlos Yalambi]

And then we saw La Guaira videos, and it was too much.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

As more and more images trickled out, a horrific picture of ruin began to emerge. La Guayra is normally a popular vacation spot, but now entire blocks had turned to rubble. Thousands and thousands of people were looking for their loved ones.

[Carlos Yalambi]

The first thing I thought was, the city is lost.

[Carlos Prieto]

Just today I went over to the Domingo Luciani Hospital where I saw with my own eyes the level of devastation. I saw trucks, pickup trucks carrying patients directly from La Guaira. There was a four year old girl that had her pelvis exposed that was arriving at the same time, and I was there. There's no way to describe it.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

Today we look at how Venezuelans united after the earthquakes and talk to our colleague Anatoly Khmernaev from Laguaida about how the aftermath of the tragedy has forced the Trump administration to shift its plans in Venezuela. It's Thursday, july 2nd. So, Anatoly, you got to Venezuela on Sunday and you've been spending a lot of time in the part of the country most affected by these earthquakes, which is La Guaira. So just tell me what you've seen.

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

So La Guayra is a gateway to Venezuela. It's this town outside of capital Caracas, and I have driven there hundreds of times. This is Anatoly. This is Monday afternoon and I'm sitting in the back of a passenger car. Earlier this week, I made this drive again, and it was a very different drive this time. While the line there was a lot of traffic, there was a lot of people going down into the city. In front of me is a pickup truck loaded up with mattresses, motorbikes and cars, trucks carrying supplies, carrying water. Just passed a motorbike driver with just a small bag full of groceries. It was quite an unusual sight. But apart from that, everything around you looked very much the same. The same as always. We're entering La Guaira and it wasn't until you get into the city itself that you start to see widespread destruction.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

Wow.

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Yeah.

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

This is the first high rise that's badly damaged. That's that I've seen blocks just entirely leveled while the walls are blown out. God, broken lifts, people's possessions just hanging out. And it's the sort of seeming apparent randomness of it. Right. That One block could be completely unscathed. Even the glass and the paint is still there. And then the next few meters down the road is just completely leveled buildings. I'm standing on top of a collapsed building. And when you, when you approached a district building, the first thing that hits you is the smell, the smell of rot, the putrification. It was just very clear. Smell of decayed flesh.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

Wow.

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

There's dozens of people around me digging through in various parts and hoping to find someone. You know, I have been a foreign correspondent for many years and have covered a lot of unrest. I have been around death, but I have never covered a natural disaster of this scale. And I have never really thought about how death smells. And this was very much it. Like, this was very clear to me that this is what death smells like sitting on the side of a collapsed large residential building. There were people digging through pretty much every collapsed building. A few relatives standing on the side of a road, the they resign. The earthquake happened a few days before I arrived, so the chances of finding someone alive have faded a lot by the time I was there. It's a lone excavator digging through the rubble. It feels a bit Quixote, like taking out a glass of sand from the beach.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

What do we know about the numbers, Anatoly, of the dead and of the missing? Where does that stand right now?

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

So the official death toll is around 2,000 people by now, and yesterday the government suggested that it could rise to about 10,000.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

Wow.

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

There are no reliable estimates of missing, but some, you know, the crowd sourcing platforms put the number at about 50,000. We should not take that too seriously. There's a lot of ca, but I think it is not unlikely that the number of deaths will end up being in five digits.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

Okay, so really heavy, just a horrific scene. What is your understanding of how this happened, of what led to the scale of destruction and of death?

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

So, first of all, Natalie, these were very powerful earthquakes, objectively powerful, that would have caused destruction in many places around the world, if not most. There's with twin earthquakes, a very unusual set of circumstances, and they also occurred during a public holiday. This was like an unusually very busy time for the area that ended up suffering the most. So widespread destruction and death was perhaps unavoidable. But there were growing questions being asked whether decisions made by the government have contributed to the destruction. Many of the destroyed buildings, or many of buildings that appear to have cost the most death have been social housing, which has been very rapidly built in the last 15, 20 years to meet political Objectives. They were basically built around election time to garner votes. And there's growing indications that corners were caught in building those buildings.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

This was under Nicolas Maduro, the previous president of Venezuela.

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

This was under Nicolas Maduro, but this was primarily under his predecessor, Hugo Chavez, who won numerous elections by gaining the support of Venezuela's poor, Venezuela's majority. And his flagship project was something called Gran Mission de Vinda, the grand housing project, which involved the construction of thousands of buildings, thousands of social housing blocks around the country, which then given out to Venezuela's poor. And many of his buildings have collapsed.

[Carlos Yalambi]

Hmm.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

Okay. So there are questions over whether that strategy led by Chavez, continued under Maduro, may have created the conditions for this level of destruction.

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

Yeah, I mean, you know, Venezuela has a history of heavy seismic activity. This is an earthquake prone zone. This is not a secret. And statistical models have predicted a strong earthquake here for some years. This is a country that should have been prepared. And to be fair, many buildings have withstood the earthquake very well. Entire neighborhoods have sort of came out of this pretty much unscathed. So there are construction engineering reasons coming from decisions taken by Hugo Chavez and Nicolas Maduro, but there were also decisions taken by the country's current leader, Delsey Rodriguez, that have contributed to the ineffective response.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

Like what? What do you mean by that?

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

So before Darcy Rodriguez became the leader of the government, she has been a long term official of this regime. She has really risen in the ranks of the government under Nicolas Maduro, who made her his economic troubleshooter, given her responsibility for the country's oil industry with the job of helping them stay in power. And she has orchestrated this great shift from the socialist principles that have powered the ruling movement since its foundation towards this laissez faire, hands off economic approach.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

More of an open market, more of an open market.

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

And this is what it looks like in practice. Under Hugo Chavez, the state had lavish citizens with goods and services in return for political loyalties. There was free food, free housing, subsidized travel, and all sorts of social benefits for any aspect of your life you can imagine, for education, for your house pets, for the elderly, for university students, et cetera, et cetera. And this was a time of economic plants in the country. Oil prices were high. Oil experts were earning the country billions and billions of dollars, and Hugo Chavez could afford that. Then the oil prices collapse. In 2014, American sanctions start strangling the country's economy and this becomes no longer sustainable. And Delsey, as Nicolas Maduro's economic chief, makes the decision to retreat the state from people's lives. So the Venezuelan states gradually stops providing basic services that they have for many decades. The people are left on their own to fend for themselves. You know, in Russia, we have a saying, the survival of a drowning is the business of a drowning. And this is what Delsey Institute said,

[Natalie Kitroleff]

you guys have the best saying.

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

And in return, the government gave them some breathing space to do that. So it stopped harassing businesses, by and large. It stopped the expropriations, it loosened currency control, it just made it easier for people to go about their daily lives. It's unleashed, in a way, market forces of supply and demand to try to fill in the gaps left by the retreating states. And it did not create this massive bonanza. It did not create a Dubai out of Caracas, but it did make people's lives significantly easier. But there was a cost to that. There was, in a way, a hidden cost, because the retreat of the state meant that the state no longer was in charge of providing basic services like telecommunications or even electricity. In some cases, the state shrank, the state hollowed out. Everyone was for themselves. And that was fine at the times of relative stability, because people's entrepreneurship, private initiatives, could help people get by. But when a natural disaster strikes, and it requires a mass, coordinated state response, the shortcomings of her policies became very much apparent.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

You're saying that under Chavez and then Maduro, obviously it was by no means perfect, but all of the resources were under the control of the government. And so if the government needed to move quickly to respond to something like a disaster, you'd imagine it could. And then the move under Delsey to a more open market system, it kind of splits these state functions up and they retreat from providing the services that you need. When something like this happens, that's exactly what happened.

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

And there's also a second reason. Maduro, especially in his last years in power, as he became increasingly unpopular, he became increasingly paranoid. He was worried about coups, he was worried about rebellions, anything that can top him from power. And he became very distrustful of his own government, people who could organize and push him out from power. So he started atomizing Venezuelan state. And by this, I mean he splits it into little fiefdoms controlled by different officials who enrich themselves. And none of them are able to communicate to each other or organize with each other. And this makes it very difficult to organize a coup. But it also, in circumstances like now, makes it very difficult for all these different institutions. The police, the military, the civil protection services, the healthcare system, etc. To. To get together, to coordinate and do something together. This is precisely what is needed during an earthquake. And instead, we just have all these small groups of people running around aimlessly because there's nothing that ties them together.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

Okay, so basically, both of these things, the economic shift and the political paranoia of Maduro lead to a very disorganized state. And then we get this other massive shift, as we all know, when the United States goes in under Trump and extracts Maduro earlier this year. Talk about that and how it affected what we're seeing now.

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

This made things even more complicated, because now it's not Delsey who ultimately made decisions in Venezuela. It is Washington. It is this Trump administration. So it adds another layer of decision making, another layer of bureaucracy, and complicates the chain of command. And this is not what she wants during a disaster response.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

Just explain what you mean when you say that it's the Trump administration making decisions.

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

So, Natalie, the strange thing about this is it's basically exactly what it sounds like. You know, this is one of his rare things. This is not a metaphor. The US has direct control over Venezuela's public revenues. The US has massive influence over Venezuela's political systems, over its economic decisions. So it is literally Marco Rubio, US Secretary of State, and his team that make everyday decisions how Venezuela is run and what happens in Venezuela, what stances it takes.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

That is just so wild. That setup, totally unimaginable, even, you know, six months ago.

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

Yeah, Natalie, was definitely something I could not have imagined. You know, yesterday I was in La Guayra, and for part of the day, I was in the airports, in the country's airport, which has been damaged. There's no commercial traffic, but there's a lot of aid supplies coming in there. And this is also where US Military set up its base. So there was this really bizarre scene that I witnessed of a senior Venezuelan security official, a man called Granko Artiaga, who has been US Nemesis. He's a man accused of gross human rights violation, torture, killing of political opponents, and he has been sold by US Governments for many years. And here he was standing and calmly looking on US Military helicopters taken on and off from an airport a few hundred yards in front of him. And it was just so surreal to see US Military power, which has been the nemesis of Venezuelan government for decades, for decades, just having complete free rein on Venezuelan airfield in front of me.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

Okay, you're getting at this right now, but how does this new government structure in Venezuela and the partnership with the US Affect the response to these quakes.

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

So when the quakes hit, the government is caught completely flat footed. It is unclear what's happening. And for the first 24 hours, which are the crucial hours, the hours where you're most likely to find survivors, there's no organized response, very little of organized response. We've seen very little heavy machinery on the streets. We've seen very little, you know, organized groups of civil servants. You know, there's sort of very sporadic statements from a government and, you know, people feel completely abandoned. People feel on their own and they have no choice but to take matters into their own hands.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

We'll be right back.

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

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[Carlos Prieto]

The first 24 hours after the earthquake that we started sending food directly to La Guaira. There were practically no rescue missions. There were no military on the street. There were no police officers. There was no help. There were so many places where the people were screaming from inside of the rubble, but there was absolutely nothing that they could do because there was no machinery. I know of a friend that she spent those 48 hours looking at the rubble where her father was buried and there was no one there to help

[Natalie Kitroleff]

everyone that our producer Carlos talked to. They couldn't sit still as all this was happening.

[Carlos Yalambi]

I went to the store and bought.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

So they started either sending food or supplies down the stretch of highway to La Guaira or going there themselves to help in any way they could.

[Carlos Yalambi]

Every day we wake up and went down to give it to the people that were working on the following.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

Often they were the first people that survivors had seen.

[Paul Tanorio]

I'm curious if there has been a moment where you've noticed that maybe you are the first person that someone there has seen come for help.

[Carlos Yalambi]

Many, many, many times. So many families have suffered. So many people have had many days without talking to their families. So many people have lost everything and they were just happy to be alive to save maybe one of their kids.

[Paul Tanorio]

What have they told you when they see you?

[Carlos Yalambi]

It's amazing. You maybe talk with some someone for less than five minutes and when you're going to say goodbye, you say goodbye with a hug. Like, it just feels so grateful. A lot of people from abroad started messaging me, asking me to reach their families. Like the mom of one of our friends in Argentina was missing. He started like asking, hey, if you know any info about my mom, please let us know.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

Carlos the comedian got multiple calls from people begging him to help locate their loved ones. Two friends had the same plea. Could he help them find their mothers who'd gone missing in La Guaida?

[Carlos Yalambi]

So we went on two motorcycles.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

So Carlos and a few friends got on their motorcycles and headed toward the

[Carlos Yalambi]

worst of the earthquake to try to find two moms. So we tried to reach for the first mom, but when we actually reached the building and the building was completely

[Paul Tanorio]

collapsed, do you think that she didn't make it?

[Carlos Yalambi]

Yeah, I would say so. I would say it's the, the most probable case. And like the person, like, she kind of knows it, like she kind of knows it that it's a long shot. So, yeah, but when we reach these places, like the people told us, hey, nobody's coming here, and we see that there is nobody around, like most civilians, helping in those places are the civilians that live in those places.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

So, Anatoly, in the last few days, our colleague, daily producer Carlos Prieto, has been talking to people who are doing just what you said, actively jumping in as volunteers with no experience, just mounting their own pretty incredible rescue efforts. Just talk to me high level about that civilian effort. What is the scale and scope of it?

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

Natalie? It's nothing short of remarkable and simply overwhelming. I would not call it a silver lining given the scale of a human tragedy, but to see every single Minnesotan you Meet contributing something, jumping in has literally brought like tears to my eyes. You know, it's the universality of this effort. The rich, the poor just all cooking food, delivering supplies, donating, you know, opening up their houses, providing transports, digging through the rubble. It's just been remarkable. And you know, Natalie, like we have been foreign correspondents for many years, we have covered a lot of authoritarian governments. And the rulebook of all these autocrats is to atomize society totally, to divide the society, to turn it into this isolated pockets that are unable to stand together, unable to do any collective action, including changing the government. Right. This is how Putin works, this is how Maduro works. And this is a government that has been in power for more than 20 years. And it has systematically undermined people's ability to make their voice count. And the way people here have responded, the way they have come together to do something meaningful, has been just absolutely overwhelming.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

You're saying basically that strategy didn't work because here people are gathering in this

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

way, the strategy didn't work. And you know, obviously it's a testament to bewildering his own people. But at the end of the day, these are just regular people facing a massive catastrophe and they are putting band aids at a massive problem that will not be solved without organized state involvement.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

And once that organized state involvement comes, I assume it does start to materialize at some point. What did it look like?

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

Well, it is beginning to materialize, Natalie. Financial aid is flowing in, supplies are flowing in. There's growing number of international volunteers, servicemen who are helping out. There's talk of multi ladder organizations providing loans, providing financing. And by this stage, Natalie, we are no longer really talking about search and rescue. By and large, we're talking longer term reconstruction.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

And what about the partnership, this now very close collaboration with the United States, did that help?

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

It did. It absolutely did. I think it would be fair to say that for all the questions that exist about US Venezuelan relationship today, questions that have to do with morality, national sovereignty, international law, it is very clear that without U.S. involvement, the situation on the ground would have been even worse. It has flown in a lot of supplies, its logistical muscles, the use of transport helicopters, et cetera, has been very important. Today there are already 900American soldiers on the ground Venezuela and helping with recovery efforts. The US has already committed $300 million of aid to Venezuela. US is pushing to reintegrate Venezuela into international organizations that can provide long term lending. So there's absolutely questions about whether the US could do more. But in absolute terms, its response has been significant.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

And that significant response, I'd imagine, has the Trump administration deepening its connection to the current government, right?

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

Absolutely. My reporting shows that after the earthquake, the US has communicated to Delsey Rodriguez that they are all in, that they have made a bet on her, they have made a bet on this alliance and they are going to lean into it. US Officials have lavish praise on Delsey and her response repeatedly in public statements. Just yesterday, the US Government said in a statement that Venezuelan government has agreed to all of their requests that they had after the earthquake, which is very interesting because it implies that the decisions are made by the US government and it's Venezuelans who just approve the decisions that have ever been taken. One of the perhaps unexpected consequences of this earthquake is this alliance has become a lot deeper in the last few days.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

And what are the implications of that?

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

This matters because the US is working with a government that they themselves have labeled as illegitimate. They have labeled it as sponsors of what they call narco terrorism. A government that has stolen elections. And until the earthquake, the US plan, as articulated repeatedly by Secretary of State Michael Rubio, involved three stages. First, the recovery of the new economy, stabilization of its political system, and transition, which means political transitions basically enabling free elections. And after the earthquake, Rubio himself admitted that the catastrophe complicates this plan, makes it more difficult. This is something that they didn't plan for. This is something they could not have planned for. And in practical terms, the concentrations makes it harder to imagine free elections in any foreseeable future, makes it difficult to imagine Venezuela really recovering their democracy and recovering their political voice.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

Okay, so I have to ask, what is the Venezuelan opposition saying about this post earthquake phase where maybe elections are being kicked even further down the road?

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

So the earthquakes have put the forces opposed to the government of Darcy Rodriguez in a very difficult position when a lose lose situation. Because on the one hand, if they stand aside, they are basically watching the US deepening their alliance with their sworn enemies and pushing the can of elections down the road. At the same time, if they use the earthquake as an opportunity to reinsert themselves into Venezuela's political lives, they face accusations of opportunism, politicizations of disaster, and of basically staging political stunts. And this dilemma is particularly acute for the leader of Venezuelani position, Marie Corina Machado, Nobel Peace Prize Laureate. She remains the most popular politician in the country. She's a person who would undoubtedly win elections if they were held tomorrow. But she's in exile. She left Venezuela last year to receive that prize. And she has been unable to come back since. So she is now watching from outside the country as the US Makes their bed with Dulcie Rodriguez. And frankly, as a Venezuelan person, she's watching this tremendous suffering of her citizens. And naturally, she wants to be involved. She wants to help. And she has been trying to come back. She does not have a valid passport. Her Venezuelan passport has expired. So she needs US Help to get into the country. And she has been making increasingly forceful public pleasure to aid her return.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

She's saying to the U.S. help me get back in there. I want to help.

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

That's exactly what she's been saying. And her pleas to the US have massively backfired because US Administrations, they see her as a destruction. They have moved from privately expressing annoyance over her pleas to now publicly saying that her campaign to return to the country is a political stunt because they say, we remain focused on reconstruction, we remain focused on aid. And the US Government, for now, has bought into the arguments of Venezuelan government that allowing the opposition back into the country would just stoke social tensions, could create violence, could create unrest. And this is not something that US Government wants to see in Venezuela right now.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

So the long and short of it is that this tragedy obviously has very high political stakes on all sides. The opposition wants to use this as an opportunity to assert itself. For Delsey Rodriguez, this is a chance to solidify its ties with the US Even more and to presumably try to show that she's a competent leader in the worst of times. But also for the United States, this feels like an important moment. I mean, President Trump has touted what he's done in Venezuela as this huge win. He's based a lot of his foreign policy on what he sees as his success there. And here is this event that may be putting that idea to the test.

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

Winston Churchill once said, never let a good crisis go to waste. And there's so much at stake for everyone involved. For Delsa Rodriguez, either this crisis ends up tumbling her government, or she ends up establishing her legitimacy, ends up establishing herself as the powerful rule of Venezuela. For the opposition, either they reinsert themselves into Venezuelan political life and use the discontent with government response to take power, or they fade into obscurity in exile. And for the Trump administration, this is a crucial test of a narrative, that the Vincennes operation has been an unfettered success, that this has been the biggest foreign policy achievements of Trump's second term. He has repeatedly said that Venezuela has now become a very happy country, that Venezuelans are dancing on the street. And the reality is that today Venezuelans are not dancing on the streets, many of them are living on the streets. Right. The images that are coming out of the country clash massively with the way that he has painted this relationship. Right. So he now has to take action to create what he has been talking about. Right. He now has to take ownership, in a way, for the situation in Venezuela. And what will happen in Venezuela in the next few months and years, to a great extent, will depend on the decisions that he will make in the coming weeks.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

What about for Venezuelans? I have to think that the stakes for them are much more urgent, life or death. Like, the question is whether they can feel safe living in this country under this system, given the response to this tragedy.

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

This tragedy has unleashed a great amount of pain and suffering, but it has also made Venezuelans rediscover their voice and given them bravery to speak out. In La Guayra, you see residents coming together to express their anger at government officials, to chase them out, to boo them. There's a sense of confidence and at the same time, a sense of anger and rage. And it's anger at being abandoned by the governments at this moment of great needs and at the corruption and competence that we've seen all around them. But it's a trigger for the pain that they have experienced for the last 20 years living under this government. Right. This is sort of like a cathartic moment in a way. Right. That everything has been bubbling up inside Venezuelan people for so many years that they have been afraid to say because of repression, because of lack of independent media. This is all now coming out. So perhaps the greatest paradox of what we see in Venezuela right now is that while the material conditions for elections and democracy are moving further away, people in power have more and more reasons to just kick the can down the road. The desire for democracy, the desire for political voice has written dramatically. People really want it. People are no longer willing to wait for it. And I also think what we see now is Venezuelans rediscovering that they are not alone, that they're part of a larger community. And I think, you know, this earthquake will have big consequences for Venezuelan society, for Venezuelan people as a whole, because they have seen the power of their collective action and what they can do together despite all the challenges.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

Well, Anatoly, thank you so much.

[Anatoly Khmernaev]

Thanks, as always.

[Paul Tanorio]

So when you think about that mom, the first mom that you couldn't find, were you. Were you afraid that you also might not find this other mom?

[Carlos Yalambi]

Oh, of course. But as we reached the place we went to the bus stop that is closest to the house where she was seen. And we have no signal. We have no way of knowing, like, the actual street because it goes up, like, to the slums. So we ask somebody at this bus stop, like, hey, where is this street? And they told us, oh, it's right here. Who are you looking for? And we say her name. And the man we ask tells us, well, yes, I'm her brother.

[Paul Tanorio]

Oh, wow.

[Carlos Yalambi]

Yeah, it was, yeah, too much luck. Like, yes, of course I'm her brother. Do you want to come visit her? And we were like, yes, please. We have to send a video to our friend. And he took us to the home and she was there.

[Paul Tanorio]

And she's okay.

[Carlos Yalambi]

She's okay. Yeah, she's. She's okay. There was just like, no way to communicating, but, yeah, she's okay.

[Natalie Kitroleff]

We'll be right back.

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[Natalie Kitroleff]

here's what else you need to know today. On Wednesday, a team at the University of Minnesota announced that it had taken a major step toward achieving something that scientists have long dreamed of discovering how chemicals can be turned into life. The researchers blended together dozens of ingredients and synthesized simple cells that can feed, grow and reproduce, passing along their genetic material to future generations. While those cells may not technically be fully alive, they have most of the basic components nest necessary for life. Scientists hope that synthetic cells may someday be engineered to do things that natural cells can't, like making new kinds of medicine or drawing large amounts of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. The biologist leading the team called her creation spud cell because of its potato like appearance. Today's episode was produced by by Carlos Prieto, Lindsey Garrison, Anna Foley, Chris Benderev and Eric Krupke. It was edited by Michael Benoit and Chris Haxel and contains music by Marian Lozano, Alicia Ba Itup, Dan Powell, Rowan niemisto and Pat McCusker. Our theme music is by Wonderly. This episode was engineered by Chris Wood. That's it for the Daily. I'm Natalie Kitroleff. See you tomorrow.

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