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The Daily Beans
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Wednesday, August 6th, 2025 Today, survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell file letters with the court over the possible release of grand jury transcripts; ICE floated the idea of paying bounties for deportations but rescinded the idea after journalists reached out for comment; FEMA floated the idea of denying emergency preparedness grants to states that boycott Israeli companies but quickly rescinded that as well; the White House is preparing an order to punish banks that refuse to work with fascist;, Texas Republicans fail again to move forward with redistricting after Democrats protest by denying them a quorum; Trump caves on requiring Rupert Murdoch to be deposed early in his lawsuit against the WSJ; Jim Comer has issued subpoenas in the Epstein files case; the DOJ has a recording of the two day witness tampering session between Ghislaine Maxwell and Todd Blanche; for the first time in the Culinary Union’s 90-year history, all major casinos on the Las Vegas Strip ar...
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- [00:00]
Alison Gill
MSW Media. Hello and welcome to the Daily beans for Wednesday, August 6, 2025. Today, survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell filed letters with the court over the possible release of grand jury transcripts. ICE floated the idea of paying bounties for deportations, but rescinded the idea after journalists reached out for comment. And then FEMA floated the idea of denying emergency preparedness grants to states that boycott Israel, but quickly rescinded that as well. The White House is preparing an order to punish banks that refuse to work with fascists. Texas Republicans fail again to move forward with redistricting after Democrats protest by denying them a quorum. Trump caves on requiring Rupert Murdoch to be deposed early in his lawsuit against the Wall Street Journal. Jamie Comer has issued subpoenas in the Epstein files case. The Department of Justice has a recording of the two day witness tampering session between Ghislaine Maxwell and Todd Blanche. And for the first time in The Culinary Union's 90 year history, all major casinos on the Las Vegas strip are unionized. I'm Alison Gill.
- [01:25]
Dana Goldberg
And I'm Dana Goldberg.
- [01:30]
Alison Gill
Hey, Dana. It's Wednesday.
- [01:32]
Dana Goldberg
It is.
- [01:33]
Alison Gill
It is hump day.
- [01:34]
Dana Goldberg
We're getting through the week. Not everything is horrible in the news today, which is, I guess, moving forward, a good thing.
- [01:42]
Alison Gill
Yeah, it's just one of those weird days. Trump was on the roof yelling about nukes. I don't know, man.
- [01:48]
Dana Goldberg
Anyone else would have been put in a padded room by now.
- [01:52]
Alison Gill
Oh, man. If you get to your mom's house and she's on the roo, right? It's time to, you know, go to a place for mom.com that's. It's just time. I. I don't know what else to say about. I just don't know what to say. I think I, like there was. My brain is so tired right now that someone had posted about that Trump's on the roof. And I posted like, I bet if he dove off, his neck flaps would open like a sugar glider and he would float down into the arms of a doughy J.D. vance or something. And then I forgot I said that. And then somebody sent it to me and said, this is funny. And then I read it like. And I swear I'd never heard it before. I laughed for like 10 minutes, but I had just said it like an hour ago.
- [02:38]
Dana Goldberg
That's very funny. You've lost your mind.
- [02:40]
Alison Gill
I did also.
- [02:40]
Dana Goldberg
Listen, I know that they have a surrounding area safe, but you don't expect the President of the United States to go up on the roof of the White House. This seems like a very dangerous thing.
- [02:54]
Alison Gill
Anyway, I don't know. Diddler on the roof is my favorite meme from Nice.
- [02:59]
Dana Goldberg
That's a good one.
- [03:00]
Alison Gill
New episode up of cleanup on aisle 45. Harry and I are going to talk to Tracy Fightlove from Lawyers for Good Government and her new pro bono litigation corps, which is awesome. And today on this show, we're going to talk to Samantha Michaels from Mother Jones. There's actually a good news story, a glimmer of hope within the criminal justice system for a change. So we can talk about that. But first we have to get to the hot notes. Hot notes. All right. First up from cnn, two victims of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse have filed letters to the court condemning the Justice Department's request to unseal grand jury testimony, basically citing the lack of respect they feel has been shown toward them by Trump and his administration. Both of the victims remained anonymous in their writings sent on Monday with one calling the latest handling of the so called Epstein files political warfare. Quote, dear United States, I wish you would have handled and would handle the whole Epstein files with more respect toward and for the victims. I am not some pawn in your political warfare. What you have done and continue to do is eating at me day after day as you help to perpetuate this story indefinitely. That's what one of the victims said. And another victim argued the priority has only been protecting wealthy men. I feel, quote, like DOJ and FBI's priority is protecting the third party, the wealthy men, by focusing on scrubbing their names off the files which the victims know who they are. That's one of the other victims said. Now, one of the victims suggested that a third party review the release of the documents to ensure that no information related to the victims is revealed. The other victim told the judge that it is an utmost priority for the information regarding the identity of the victims to be redacted. And a third survivor named Annie Farmer filed a letter by name on Tuesday. Her lawyer wrote, by the government's admission, over 1,000 victims suffered from Epstein and Maxwell's actions. To date. However, the combined forces of our country's law enforcement agencies have only ever arrested these two individuals in connection with crimes committed against countless young women and girls. And the government's recent suggestion that no further criminal investigations are forthcoming is a cowardly abdication of its duties to protect and serve. Epstein escaped justice through his apparent suicide and Maxwell is now, to the victim's horror, herself, attempting to escape justice by negotiating for a potential pardon or commutation of her sentence. The victims of her crimes unequivocally object to any potential leniency that the government may be considering offering Maxwell, a convicted sex trafficker. She tells the court that redactions of the names and identifying information of the victims is appropriate and that the redactions of names and information relating to Epstein and Maxwell's co conspirators are improper. Ms. Farmer strongly supports the release of the Epstein and Maxwell grand jury transcripts subject to appropriate redaction of the victims names and identifiers. Unsealing the grand jury transcript serves the interest of transparency, accountability and restorative justice.
- [05:56]
Dana Goldberg
All right, thank you, Allison. And this next one's from cnn. The Justice Department has an audio recording of the interview it conducted with Jeffrey Epstein's associate Galene Maxwell last month. And the administration is considering releasing a transcript of the interview publicly. This is from three senior administration officials. This is what they told cnn. The existence of the recording has not been previously reported and comes at a time when the Trump administration is facing to be more transparent with the information it has related to Epstein administration officials. They're currently discussing whether to release the transcript of Maxwell's interview with Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche. This is again from the three senior administration officials. That's what they told cnn. In a related story from abc, House Oversight Committee James Comer issued numerous new subpoenas on Tuesday, including one to the Department of Justice for the complete Jeffrey Epstein files. Another for the depositions in the coming months from former President Bill Clinton and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. I don't know why they're stopping there. I'll have more names for you in a minute. Comer said he wants the Justice Department to turn over the full, complete, unredacted Epstein files on or before August 19th. In addition to the Clintons, the Republican led panel issued subpoenas for depositions from James Comey, Loretta Lynch, Eric Holder, Merrick Garland, Robert Mueller, William Barr, Jeff Sessions, Alberto Gonzalez.
- [07:23]
Alison Gill
Alberto Gonzalez.
- [07:24]
Dana Goldberg
I know Republicans on the committee said they are seeking information from these officials regarding the Epstein files. Now, the two people that are going to obfuscate during this interview, if they can even get them in there, William Barr for sure. Jeff Sessions is going to be a mess. But it's William Barr. Because his fucking father is involved in all of this. Because his dad knew Epstein hired him at a school he ran with zero educational experience and then had to fire him because he was being inappropriate with young girls. Bill Barr has been in on this the entire fucking time.
- [07:57]
Alison Gill
Yeah, and I think Bill Barr's dad actually wrote a book about a sex trafficking ring in space.
- [08:02]
Dana Goldberg
Yeah, it was like some sci fi thing, but it talked about how this should all be okay and.
- [08:08]
Alison Gill
Good man. All right. Oh, and by the way, this is breaking right now. I should tell you, this is not surprising. During her nine hours speaking with Todd Blanche last month, Ghislaine Maxwell said nothing during the interview that would be harmful to Trump. Telling Blanche that Trump had never done anything in her presence that would have caused concern. And that's according to sources familiar with what Maxwell said. What sources? And then she was immediately downgraded from sex offender status, against the rules, and moved to Club Fed. Whatever saw this coming a mile away. So, of course they're gonna release the transcripts and the recording of the meeting because it went like this. All right, you're gonna say all this stuff, but you're never gonna say anything bad about Trump. Right? Right.
- [08:58]
Dana Goldberg
Yep. And I'm gonna ask you questions that have nothing to do with Trump, and you're gonna answer them, maybe honestly, maybe not, but I'm gonna set you up for these questions and make sure that Trump isn't anywhere involved in the question.
- [09:07]
Alison Gill
And then she said, okay, I'll do that as long as you move me to Club Fed. And then I'll also stop leaking all the stuff I have to the Wall Street Journal. I don't know. Seriously, like, come on. They think we're stupid. Well, maybe not us, but maybe the MAGA people will totally buy it. All right, so moving right along here, this is in the Trump always chickens out category. Taco from the Times. Right, because it's Taco Tuesday. As we record this, Rupert Murdoch and Trump have agreed to postpone Mr. Murdoch's deposition in the president's lawsuit against the Wall Street Journal. And what that should say is, donald Trump has caved to demanding Rupert Murdoch be deposed immediately. Trump had argued that Murdoch, who's 94, should be deposed within 15 days because of his age and his health. Says the guy with a venous disease on the roof of the White House talking about nuclear weapons. Okay, but he doesn't need to do health reports, whatever. But Trump wanted him to be deposed. Murdoch and according to court documents filed Monday, Murdoch and Mr. Trump have reached a deal to pause that request until after the Wall Street Journal's motion to dismiss is heard by the judge. Trump sued the Journal, as we know, last month, $10 billion after they published an article about a lewd birthday note that the publication said Trump wrote to Epstein. 2003, five years before the financier pled guilty to soliciting prostitution from a minor in a sweetheart deal, by the way, that he got from Acosta, who later became Trump's labor secretary. That was penned by Ellen Dershowitz, who's not allowed to have pierogies at Martha's Vineyard. The note was accompanied by a sexually suggestive drawing. Mr. Trump has denied he was responsible for the letter. I don't write drawings, he said. And according to Monday's filing, the parties have agreed that should the motion to dismiss be denied, Mr. Murdoch would be deposed within 30 days at a mutually agreed upon location in the United States. The filing added that Mr. Murdoch had agreed to provide Mr. Trump with regular updates on his health.
- [11:06]
Dana Goldberg
I just can't with any of this bullshit. It was a warning shot. That's all it was. It was a warning shot. Stay in line. This is from the Wall Street Journal. The White House is preparing to step up pressure against big banks over perceived discrimination against conservatives and crypto companies with an executive order that threatens to find lenders that drop customers for political reasons.
- [11:28]
Alison Gill
Okay, so perceived discrimination.
- [11:30]
Dana Goldberg
Yes.
- [11:31]
Alison Gill
Not like we don't want to make this decision based on the fact that crypto is dangerous or.
- [11:37]
Dana Goldberg
Correct.
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Alison Gill
Okay. All right.
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Dana Goldberg
Yeah. A draft of the executive order, which was viewed by the Wall Street Journal, directs bank regulators to investigate whether any financial institutions might have violated the Equal Credit Opportunity act, antitrust laws or consumer financial protection laws. Yeah.
- [11:54]
Alison Gill
Billionaire joke. Billionaire protection laws.
- [11:57]
Dana Goldberg
Yeah. Violators could be subject to monetary penalties, consent decrees or other disciplinary measures. This is according to the draft. The order could be signed as soon as this week, according to people familiar with the matter. It is possible the order could get delayed or that the administration's plans will change.
- [12:14]
Alison Gill
Taco.
- [12:15]
Dana Goldberg
Uh huh. The draft order doesn't name any specific banks, but appears to refer to an instance where bank of America was accused of shutting down the accounts of a Christian organization operating in Uganda based on the organization's religious beliefs. Huh. Seems like some information is probably missing here on the backstory. The bank has said it closed the accounts because it doesn't serve small businesses operating outside the U.S. now, the draft order also criticizes the role that some banks played. An investigation into the January 6, 2021 riots on the US Capitol. That's where it is buried the lead all the way at the end.
- [12:51]
Alison Gill
So that's okay. All right. That's what they. Okay. Now, now, now it's coming into focus, isn't it? These banks that played a role in the invest. So if I guess Jack Smith Or Merrick Garland went to a bank and got, you know, subpoenaed them for records about funding the rally on January 6th. That's what they're angry about. Same with their going targeting the law firms where Mueller's brother's kid worked for 10 minutes or something, 1986, or, you know, whatever it is, they're going after law firms, universities, and now banks. And also from the New York Times. In a reversal, FEMA will not deny grants to states and cities that boycott Israeli companies. Okay. And this is a reversal because they were gonna. In grant notices posted in recent days, FEMA had said that states and cities needed to follow terms and conditions set forth by its parent agency, the Department of Homeland Security, that prohibited grantees from limiting commercial relations specifically with Israeli companies. But on Monday, DHS took down that version of its terms and conditions and replaced it with new documents that do not mention Israeli boycotts. Tricia McLaughlin, DHS spokeswoman, also said on Monday there's no FEMA requirement tied to Israel. Had the eligibility criteria stayed in place, it would have restricted access to at least $1.9 billion earmarked for search and rescue equipment.
- [14:16]
Dana Goldberg
And.
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Alison Gill
And that's emergency manager salaries and backup power systems used during blackouts. But the policy would have been largely symbolic because there's no such thing as states boycotting Israel. This is what the Times says. No state has a law in effect that boycotts Israeli companies. All these reversals are just like Ryan Walker being surprised about the porn on his screen and is off. What? Oh, what? Did we. Did I say that? No. Is that there? No. Oh, and by the way, have you seen Oklahoma put out a statement?
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Dana Goldberg
No.
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Alison Gill
Is it Walker or Walter? Ryan.
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Dana Goldberg
Walter. Ryan. Walter Ryan.
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Alison Gill
Walter. Whatever Nazi.
- [14:59]
Dana Goldberg
Ryan Walters. Yeah.
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Alison Gill
Put out a statement saying, we've looked into the matter, and as it turns out, IMDb automatically started playing a movie called the Protector on his screen, and he didn't have any control over it because you know how streaming services do. They just.
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Dana Goldberg
Yeah, just. All the time. Just cue it up.
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Alison Gill
Queue up porn for you. Okay, Now I gotta go watch the Protector.
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Dana Goldberg
These motherfuckers.
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Alison Gill
I know. Jesus.
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Dana Goldberg
Ugh. All right. Here's another reversal reported by the Times. On Tuesday morning, Immigration and Customs Enforcement announced in an internal email that it would offer cash bonuses to agents for deporting people quickly, an incentive meant to motivate the staff to speed up President Trump's mass deportations because he is falling short of that 3,000 a day. Less than four hours later, the agency abruptly canceled what was supposed to be a 30 day pilot program. Big email, big capital letters and quotes. Please disregard. This is from Liana J. Castano, an official at ICE's field operations division, said in a follow up email to agency offices around the country. Now, Trisha McLaughlin, a Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman, said the program had not been enacted, added that, and I quote, no such policy is in effect or has been in effect. The email canceling the program was sent shortly after the New York Times inquired about its existence. We don't have anything here. Nothing here to see.
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Alison Gill
There's no porn. Well, I'm not watching the Protector. IMDb cues up that, hey, no, we didn't say FEMA with the Israel thing. No, no, no. Oh my God.
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Dana Goldberg
I know now to quote, unquote, maximize their bonuses. The memo instructed ICE agents to deport eligible immigrants through a fast track process known as expedited removal, which allows immigrants without legal status to be deported without court proceedings called due process, everyone. It also said that the agents could offer detainees the option of leaving the country voluntarily. Now, Ms. Costano did not immediately respond to this request for comment. Efforts to speed the pace of deportations, like the bonus program, well, it could endanger the due process rights. Of course it could. Of immigrants. By encouraging ICE agents to cut corners. Immigration experts and former government, all officials, they agree on this. And this is the quote that is so godly unethical. This is from Scott Shuckert. He's a former senior Homeland Security official. He said you can't incentivize government agents to short circuit people's procedural rights. Would you pay a bonus to judges for wrapping up trials faster? Yes, actually, this government probably fucking would.
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Alison Gill
Well, yeah, this government certainly would, man. All right, so DHS, a lot of explaining to do. Trisha McLaughlin. We never said that. We never said that. We never did a bounty. I mean, it would explain all the, you know, the having immigration judges dismiss cases of people who show up to court and then get grabbed and kidnapped for expedited deportation. They were going to pay them per person. Never happened. Didn't happen. Don't know what you're talking about.
- [18:05]
Dana Goldberg
It's just so disgusting.
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Alison Gill
Well, here's some better news from cnn.
- [18:08]
Dana Goldberg
The baby Jesus.
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Alison Gill
Yeah. No. For a second day in a row, the Texas House failed to reach a quorum as dozens of Democrats have left the state in protest over GOP plans to potentially eliminate five Democratic US House seats ahead of the 2026 midterm elections. Speaker Dustin Burrows said lawmakers will try to establish a quorum again on Friday. While the House members will be called into the chamber for a pro forma session for tomorrow and Thursday. Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton said he would seek court rulings against the Democrats if they didn't return by Friday. Okay, so be there by 3pm or else. And now it's be there by Friday, or else. Whatever. I can feel the double barrel middle fingers from Chicago.
- [18:47]
Dana Goldberg
Oh, yeah.
- [18:49]
Alison Gill
Otherwise, they have to return by Friday, ensuring that their seats are declared vacant. And from Politico, California's Texas thwarting gerrymander has swiftly transformed from fantasy to reality. Democrats in the House and state Legislature are coalescing around a plan to draw a half dozen Republican incumbents into oblivion and persuade California voters to approve the new congressional maps before next year's midterms. Party leaders are closely tracking the dual track developments in which lawmakers in Texas and California are moving in partisan parallel to shore up their respective parties. House majorities. California Republicans are casting about for a way to avoid extinction. Quote, legally, we can do it. That's Javier Becerra, a Democratic gubernatorial candidate and former Biden cabinet secretary who's working with a voting rights institute that has briefed lawmakers. So he said, legally we can do it. Politically, we must do it now. Hollywood star and former California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger. I forgot he was our governor.
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Dana Goldberg
Oh, my God. He did too.
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Alison Gill
Right? He's publicly speaking out against the effort to send more Democrats to Congress through districting and is prepared to campaign against it. Well, you know what? No.
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Dana Goldberg
Yeah. I don't give a shit.
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Alison Gill
No, it's not a tuma. You can't.
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Dana Goldberg
And I don't know why California stopping at these five seats, come out and say we're gonna redistrict 10. Because then. Yeah. Or nine. Thank you. Because then Texas will probably down.
- [20:14]
C
Maybe.
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Alison Gill
I don't know.
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Dana Goldberg
We'll see. Are there nine districts in Texas that could be changed?
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Alison Gill
Probably in Texas.
- [20:21]
Dana Goldberg
Yeah.
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Alison Gill
I don't know. I know. We can do nine here.
- [20:23]
Dana Goldberg
Right.
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Alison Gill
Just do it. Right. That's what I said. Go big. Don't do this seat for seat thing. Don't do this, you know. Oh, we'll even it out. No, no, no, no. We're already seven to 10 points behind because of previous gerrymanders. Yep. So that and Arnold. Sorry.
- [20:41]
Dana Goldberg
No, go yourself.
- [20:42]
Alison Gill
Get to the chopper. You got what you want. Cohegan, give those people air or whatever. So many, so many things.
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Dana Goldberg
How did Maria Shrier stay married to him for so long? All right, this story, I feel, falls into some good news. When Susanna Pacheco accepted a housekeeping job 16 years ago at a casino on Las Vegas Strip. She believed it was a step towards stability for her and her two year old daughter. But the single mom found herself exhausted, falling behind on bills, without access to stable health insurance, caught in a cycle of low pay and little support. And for years she said there was no safety net in sight. Until now. For 25 years, her employer, which is the Venetian, had resisted organizing efforts as one of the last holdouts on the Strip, locking in a prolonged standoff with the culinary Workers union. But a recent change in ownership, it opened the Venetians doors to union representation. Just as the Strip's newest casino, the Fontainebleau. All right. Was also inking its first labor contract. The historic deals finalized late last year, they mark a major turning point. For the first time In Culinary Union's 90 year history, all major casinos on the Strip are unionized, backed by 60,000 members, most of them in Las Vegas. It's the largest labor union in Nevada. Now together, this is a quote, together we've shown that change can be a positive force. And I'm confident that this partnership will continue to benefit us in all the years to come. That's Patrick Nichols. Patrick's the president and CEO of the Venetian. He said that shortly after workers approved the deal, Pacheco says their new contract has already reshaped her day to day life. The housekeeper no longer races against the clock to clean an unimaginable number of hotel suites. And she's spending more quality time with her children because of the better pay and guaranteed days off. And I quote, now with a union, we have a voice that's from Pacheco.
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Alison Gill
Hey, and hats off to the new billionaire owner of the Venetian.
- [22:44]
Dana Goldberg
Right?
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Alison Gill
Wow. Yeah, doing a right thing. I mean, you know, credit where credit is due. And the Fantom Bleu.
- [22:56]
Dana Goldberg
Fantom Blair.
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Alison Gill
I mean, congrats. Yeah, they, you know, the, I guess the Fontainebleau was inking a labor contract right when it was built. And now this new owner of the Venetian. Great, great, wonderful. That is good news. Thank you for that. All right everybody, it's time for some good trouble.
- [23:17]
Dana Goldberg
What are you guys doing? Getting into trouble.
- [23:20]
Alison Gill
Getting into trouble. All right, this is from a listener, Laura Loomer. She's looking for tips to find out who is disloyal inside the Trump administration. So I think we should help her out. We have a link in the show notes so you can help people get loomered. Now your name and email are required so make sure to create one of those ProtonMail accounts for anonymity. Maybe get a VPN and then let her rip. I recommend you tell her that J.D. vance, Peter Thiel, and Rupert Murdoch are planning a coup to overthrow Donald Trump.
- [23:49]
Dana Goldberg
Which may not be that far off.
- [23:52]
Alison Gill
Or maybe Caroline Levitt is stealing Trump away from Laura and Melania.
- [23:57]
Dana Goldberg
Maybe.
- [23:58]
Alison Gill
Or just send her endless copies of the Mac and Me script. Whatever. Whatever floats your boat. Again, we have the link in the show notes. You can help Laura Loomer decide who.
- [24:06]
Dana Goldberg
She'S going to Loomer next.
- [24:08]
Alison Gill
All right, everybody, we'll be back after this break with Samantha Michaels from Mother Jones with a rare bright spot in the criminal justice system. You don't want to miss it. Stick around. We'll be right back after these messages.
- [24:20]
Dana Goldberg
We'll be right back.
- [24:22]
Alison Gill
Hey, everybody. I've been talking about my Helix mattress for years, but I want to share again how truly it just changed my nights. I have had my Helix Mattress, gosh, since 2019, 2020 now, and it's still one of my favorite purchases ever. Before I switched, chronic back pain made sleeping a real challenge. I'd toss and turn. I would wake up in a pool of sweat. Every morning felt like a painful, slow start. Sleep was difficult to come by, and it was never entirely restful. And then I kept hearing amazing things about Helix from friends and listeners, and I knew I had to give it a try. And from the very first night, my sleep felt different. And my Apple watch immediately recorded deeper sleep cycles and fewer interruptions throughout the night. So the data backed it up. And most importantly, I w up with significantly less lower back pain, feeling more rested than I had in years. This consistent restful sleep changed my entire day. My mornings improved, overall, energy increased, and my productivity skyrocketed. It's amazing what consistently good sleep can do for your mood, focus, and overall health. I mean, think about it. I had one podcast and now I have three. Anyway, compared to my old mattress, Helix offered the perfect balance of softness and support, easing the pressure points that had caused my previous discomfort. That persistent back pain is now just a memory. Partnering with Helix felt right, because this mattress genuinely improved my everyday quality of life. That's why we've been partnered for so long. So if you deal with similar issues like back pain or restlessness, Helix could be a game changer. It definitely was. For me, good sleep isn't just about feeling comfortable at night. It's about feeling your best all day, too. And with Helix, I finally got the rest I needed. So go to helixsleep.comdailybeans for 20% off sitewide. That's helixsleep.com dailybeans for 20 percent off sitewide. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you. Again, that's helixsleep.com DailyBeans with Helix. Better sleep starts now. Hey, everybody. Welcome back. So, you know, as I'm digging through the news all the time, every once in a while I'll come across like a story that really just stands out, is super well written, super well researched and sourced. And I wanted to talk about a story that I saw. And so we are here with the author of this story. She's a senior reporter for Mother Jones. She writes about criminal justice. Please welcome Samantha Michaels. Hi, Samantha, how are you?
- [26:29]
C
Hi, Alison. Good. Thanks for having me on the show.
- [26:32]
Alison Gill
Yeah, thank you. Thank you for joining us. Because the first thing I want to convey here is that the title of this piece is A Revolutionary Way to End the Incarceration of Girls. Hawaii Gets Girls Incarceration to Zero. And that really, really stood out to me because here in California and having the political leanings that I have, I'm pretty anti incarceration and pro rehabilitation and pro helping people maintain their ability to be awesome citizens in the world and things like that. And so this really, really stood out to me. It's incredible reporting. Talk about this piece and what led you to it.
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C
Yeah. So a couple of years ago, back in 2022, I saw a news clip that Hawaii had gotten down to zero girls in incarceration. And that stood out to me as well because most of the time criminal justice stories are pretty depressing. And this was finally a good news story. And I was curious, you know, I had never heard of another state that had just stopped incarcerating girls. And I wanted to, to know how they, how they did it. So I started looking into it and I started learning about a really interesting program in Hawaii called Girls Court, which was one of the first courts in the country to actually specialize in solving girls problems and considering their needs instead of just treating girls as afterthoughts and sort of putting them in the same program as boys. And so I started digging into that and then started learning more about other programs and other states that have kind of a similar model and how those have also been successful. And so the piece is kind of looking at that.
- [28:18]
Alison Gill
Yeah. And it was published in the July, August 2025 issue of Mother Jones where you write and, you know, these personal stories about some of these folks and judges. For example, Judge Karen Radius. Right A Girls Court in Honolulu seems just too, you know, so often we're told that we need to, like, leave passion at the door. Law is reason without passion. And we need to leave our, you know, our lived experiences behind as we go in and look at the law in a black and white way. And I feel like that kind of stripped away a little bit and that there was a lot of personal empathy and understanding about what a lot of these girls are going through that lend to these programs. So talk a little bit about that, what you found in your research about some of these individuals and how that lends to the larger concept of getting incarceration for girls down to zero.
- [29:19]
C
Yeah. So Girls Court was created actually around two decades ago by a judge named Karen Radius, a very passionate judge who doesn't really beat around the bush. She says things like, they are. And she started noticing that more girls were coming before her bench. Previously it had been mostly boys. And she was frustrated by the programs that were available for them. And so she started thinking about what could she do differently? And she. She wanted to actually listen to the girls and ask them, you know, what kinds of services or what kinds of resources did they need to stay out of incarceration. And so she created this program that paired girls with probation officers. But the probation officers were trained more like social workers. And so they would talk with the girls and with the girls families and ask them, you know, what was going on in the girl's life that caused her to get into trouble. So the idea wasn't so much to focus on fixing the girl, but to fix the environment around the girl. So work on, like family relationships or connecting the girl with healthcare. And this proved to be extremely effective. I met one young woman who went through the program. She graduated a few years ago. She had been running away, and she had been in and out of the justice system and nothing really seemed to work. And then she went into Girls Court and her probation officer kind of became almost like an older sister to her. They got really close. Her whole family was able to do therapy. She got, you know, access to a different school to help her with some of her needs, and she just started thriving.
- [31:04]
Alison Gill
What do you attribute the increase at first back in the 90s of incarcerated girls? I mean, according to your article, it grew 50%, whereas incarcerated boys grew 4%. Talk about that phenomenon, because I know, I know Judge Radius actually, like, came from south side of Chicago, working class family, ended up going to law school and then moved to Hawaii earlier in her career, according to your reporting. And she Was kind of looking around saying, is this just me? Am I a girl magnet?
- [31:35]
Dana Goldberg
I think was the quote.
- [31:37]
Alison Gill
So talk a little bit about the phenomenon behind the massive increase in girls being incarcerated.
- [31:43]
C
Yeah, so in the 1990s, the number of delinquent girls in detention grew, like you said, about 50%, whereas for boys it grew like 5%. So there was this massive shift. Part of that was that juvenile incarceration was increasing a lot. Overall, boys and girls, juvenile crime had been rising since the 80s. Then another aspect was just that, you know, the 90s was kind of this tough on crime era. There was a lot of concern around, like the myth of, you know, teen super predators. And even though a lot of that myth focused on boys, the tough on crime mentality also kind of trickled down to girls as well. So girls started getting pushed into the system. And then there were also some federal laws that were changed that basically made it so that more girls were being arrested and incarcerated for very minor fights that probably wouldn't have put them into the system previously.
- [32:40]
Alison Gill
I wonder, I wonder why that is. Right. Like, I. Because I'm thinking back to the 90s when I was a teenager. I don't know if. Yeah, I can't figure it out. Like, I can't quite put my finger on it, but we were definitely, like, I don't know, more policed, if that makes sense.
- [33:01]
C
Yeah. With the tough on crime era, there were more police in schools as well. You know, the school to prison pipeline. There was zero tolerance, school discipline policies that sent more. More kids to jail. And as far as those federal laws, girls are often incarcerated for what's called status offenses. So these are offenses that are only really illegal because the person is a minor. So things like running away from home, breaking curfew, truancy, and girls continue to be arrested for status offenses at very high rates. But in the 90s, there was kind of a shift in some of the laws. And so things that might have been status offenses previously, now girls were actually getting charged for, like, minor fights.
- [33:48]
Alison Gill
Yeah, yeah, that sounds familiar. Just based on a lot of friends of mine with the whole, you know, truancy, running away from home, et cetera. And San Francisco, apparently you wrote, has also a really good program for this.
- [34:01]
C
Yes, San Francisco actually has one of the best programs in the country. There's an organization called the Young Women's Freedom center that started in the 1990s. And it similarly will work with girls who have gotten, you know, caught up in the justice system, will pair them with sort of older mentors who will ask them, you know, what they need, listen to the issues that are going on in their lives, and then help connect them with housing, medical care, basically whatever they need. A really cool thing about this program is that it's really run and led by girls who have been through the system. I think more than 25% of the staff are younger than 25. A lot of them were previously incarcerated or homeless. And this program has had great success as well. I think 85% of kids that have been through the program are less likely to be arrested. Jurisdictions that have worked with this program have seen also zero girls in incarceration for long stretches of time.
- [35:05]
Alison Gill
And have there been any follow up studies following these girls through life about like, you know, where are they now? Type situation? Because I know, I know Judge Radius, like, Judge Radius was when she saw that these homes were sitting empty and she was very excited about that. One of her main concerns was like, like, don't consider this done right. Like the way that this particular Supreme Court treats the Voting Rights act or you know, the way certain people in this administration treat vaccines. Like, oh, we're cured now. We can stop working on this problem. And so I'm curious about the maintenance and also the kind of where are they now? Aspect of this.
- [35:45]
C
Yeah, my research didn't. In my research, I didn't come across any studies that looked at girls who have been through these programs and then looked at them decades later to see where they are now. There are definitely a lot of success stories, though. With the Young Women's Freedom center, for example, I mentioned that it's led by a lot of girls that have been through the system. One of the early leaders was Latifah Simon. She had spent time on the streets and she was just elected to Congress last year. So she's representing the Bay Area in Congress. And yeah, there are girls who have been through these programs that are now actually like leading programs like this, helping other girls, like doing really great things.
- [36:29]
Alison Gill
That's so cool. Taking up the mantle for what had helped you in the 90s. And yeah, I'm gonna start looking like for that too. Like for like part twos and part threes of what you have put out here at Mother Jones. Because I think those personal stories are super important. Like the woman who ran for Congress, for example, I just think. I don't know that just. You're right. We see so little good news in the justice system. Like you talked about in your article in Oklahoma, there were women and girls being put away because they were being Abused like they were in abusive situations. And I think you even were like, yes, that really happened. And so after your decade of experience looking into this, to find a good news story like this and to report on it had to be fulfilling.
- [37:19]
C
Yeah, for sure. I mean, our criminal justice system is very messed up. There is a lot of misery. There are so many problems. But this story was one of the rare pieces that actually did give me hope that it is possible to do things better. I mean, Hawaii got to zero girls in. In prison. There are counties in California that had zero girls incarcerated for long stretches. New York City has had less than two girls incarcerated for long stretches. Maine and Vermont have had stretches with zero girls incarcerated. So it's possible to stop throwing so many kids in prison? It's possible. There are jurisdictions that have shown that it's possible. And there's this question of, what if we started expanding these programs? What if more places started doing these types of programs? What if we made these programs more accessible to boys?
- [38:14]
Alison Gill
Yeah, I was going to say, let's work on the boys or to women.
- [38:18]
C
Or, you know, maybe to men. Like, could this revolutionize how the criminal justice system operates? Could it make us much safer?
- [38:26]
Alison Gill
Yeah, I think the thing that's stopping us is that there are a lot of private companies who build prisons for profit, prisons that make a lot of money off of people being incarcerated. And so there's a pretty big lobby against stopping incarceration or reducing it. And I think that that's one of the big problems with the justice system as it stands.
- [38:45]
C
That's one problem. Yeah, for sure. I mean, another huge barrier, though, is that people are very afraid of crime. You know, like, there is massive fear of crime, and there's, like, a big desire by a lot of voters to be tougher on crime right now. Violence spiked during the first year of the pandemic, and now it's falling, and, you know, it's below pandemic levels. It's actually at historic lows in some ways, but people don't necessarily feel that way. They still feel unsafe. And so I think there is a lot of, you know, education that needs to be done to kind of overcome some of those challenges and make people see. See that, you know, programs like this actually can make us safer and healthier as communities.
- [39:33]
Alison Gill
Yeah, I agree. Well, this is a great piece, everybody. It's in Mother Jones. You can Google a revolutionary way to end the incarceration of girls. It's by Samantha Michaels. Can you tell everyone where they can find and follow your work?
- [39:44]
C
Yeah. So you can read more about this story on motherjones.com and I am on Blue sky as well if you want to follow me there.
- [39:55]
Alison Gill
Awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah, me too. Blue sky, that's my new place. I appreciate your time today and thank you for all of your hard work. I look forward to reading what you put out next.
- [40:05]
C
Thanks, Alison.
- [40:06]
Alison Gill
All right, everybody, stick around. We'll be right back with the good news. Everybody, welcome back. It's time for the good news. Who likes good news? Everyone? Then good news, everyone. Good news, good news. And if you have any good news, any great little thing that happened to you, big, small, whatever, medium sized, good things that have happened to you or a loved one, we want to hear about it. We all want to share in that joy. So send it to us@dailybeanspod.com and click on contact. Could be a shout out to a loved one, a family member, a small business in your area that you love. Maybe there's a good nonprofit that you know about or that you work for that you want to amplify and get some eyes on for some support, some great community organizing. Maybe you want to send photos and stories about a rally that you've been to or a protest or a postcard writing party. Send it to us. A shout out to a government program, a self shout out. Tell us about what your thesis and dissertation titles are. If you've gotten some student debt forgiveness, we would love to hear about that. Just anything positive that you can think of, please share it with us. And to get it read on the air, you just got to pay your pod pet tariff, which means really just attach a photo. It doesn't matter what it is, but we like photos of your pets. And if you don't have a pet, an adoptable pet in your area, if you don't have that, read any animal photo will do. Bird watching photos, which can be an actual bird or it can be you and your family and friends flipping the bird to trump or musk or their properties. Anything works at all. Family photos, baby pictures, awkward family photos, your gardens, your happy places, sunsets, beaches, whatever. Send it to us dailybeanspot.com click on contact. First up from Riri, I would like to share this good news that my son is finally in recovery. I am so proud of him. I appreciate how hard it is after more than 14 years of using. I recently took my grandchildren to the Cape May Zoo in New Jersey where they have a capybara encounter experience and I thought of you immediately. We could not participate as it wasn't open when we were there, but we thought you might want to fly out someday. You can meet the capybaras.
- [42:20]
Dana Goldberg
Oh my goodness, looks like you can feed them that the cape may sue.
- [42:25]
Alison Gill
Look at their little butts. I want to scratch them.
- [42:27]
Dana Goldberg
Oh my God. It's like a corgi butt, except on.
- [42:29]
Alison Gill
A capybara and their little noses are the best of tiny ears. Okay, love it.
- [42:36]
Dana Goldberg
All right, this next one's from the Resisters. No pronouns given. The Resistors, our local protest group in Chico, California held a vigil last Saturday to honor the many disappeared immigrants from our cities and towns across America. On 180ft of butcher paper we had listed many of these people and as some of the names were read, the audience chanted, we send you hope, peace and love. We had speakers and a prayer at the end as well as a recreation of the detained with several people's hands tied behind their backs, looking down and forlorn. We all cried. People said our vigil made it real, not just a story on the news. And we're going to have a link to that and some of it in our show notes. But here's just a couple of signs a spectator democracy is not a spectator sport. Resist, dear.
- [43:24]
Alison Gill
Habeas corpus suspends Stephen Miller. Yeah, I love that. Resisters. Thank you so much for that. Well done. What a good idea. All right, next up from Anonymous, no pronouns. I teach science at community college. Thank you. Thank you for your service. The school I work for is very diverse. Many of the colleagues and students are immigrants or children of immigrants every day. I do work that this administration hates teaching fact based science to and with people that they hate. As you can imagine, the past few months have been stressful to say the least. My good news is that I recently earned tenure and my first promotion. To celebrate, I did something I've wanted to do for a long time. I bought something just for me. A kayak. Now I can go out on the water whenever I want. It's my new way to escape the craziness, breathe and recharge my soul. Attached as a picture of my new happy place on the water at one of our amazing state parks. Thanks for all you do. Anonymous.
- [44:21]
Dana Goldberg
Wow, that's gorgeous.
- [44:23]
Alison Gill
That just seems so serene.
- [44:25]
Dana Goldberg
Yeah, the one time I kayaked in water like that, it was actually in Alaska and it was serene. It was beautiful.
- [44:32]
Alison Gill
I want to go to there. Yeah.
- [44:34]
Dana Goldberg
All right, this next one's from Michael Pronouns, he and him doing what little bit I can to try to hold back the orange fascist gibbon currently staining our executive mansion. I listened daily and thought you two would thoroughly appreciate the sign I brought to the no Kings protest. I couldn't bring my little girl, a five year old yellow Labrador named Gidget, but she did help me paint the sign. Keep up the necessary work and thank you. Gidget is adorable and the sign says none of these assholes have ever known the love of a dog.
- [45:07]
Alison Gill
Fantastic, Michael.
- [45:09]
Dana Goldberg
It is fantastic sign. That's great.
- [45:11]
Alison Gill
Oh, that is so good. And you're right. You're totally right. That's so good. Thank you. Oh my gosh. This next dog too. Oh, these are such great dogs. This is from Tracy M. Pronoun. She and her I live across the river from the Trenton State House. I was just walking the dog and saw a small plane trailing a banner that said Mess with Texas. Hopefully the message will be received by the New Jersey governor. For my tariff I include a picture of my dog Malenia, who took me outside in time to catch the sign. Feel free to guess her breeds. I rescued her in October last year and the rescue told me she was a Dogo Argentina, which she very much is not. She looks like a pit bull to me.
- [45:54]
Dana Goldberg
I see pity in there for sure.
- [45:56]
Alison Gill
Her eyes are so beautiful.
- [45:58]
Dana Goldberg
They are. That's a sweet baby's face.
- [46:00]
Alison Gill
I want to pet the dog.
- [46:02]
Dana Goldberg
No. All right, this next submission is from well pronounced He They Ladies of the Beans. I want to give a shout out to an organization that I love and that I want your listeners to know about. I know our side of the aisle has had a difficult relationship with firearms and that's why I want to shout out the liberal gun club nationally and to Blake Alvarenga, the Forward. Let me know if I'm saying that wrong. Alvarenga the Forward Initiative here in Madison, Wisconsin. The LGC is a national meeting space for the left of center folks interested in the right to keep and bear arms. And the Forward initiative provides free to affordable education in safe handling of firearms, pepper spray and concealed carry in a friendly left of center environment with an extreme focus on safety. His class scheduled was absolutely overloaded after the election and Blake worked his butt off to educate his community. And he's still working his butt off. So thank you, Blake. My pod pet tax is my little boy Reggie. He's been on the pod before but it's been a few years so can you guess his breeds again? They're listed below the fold. That black and white photo isn't photoshopped, it's just shot on film. And that effect is done entirely in the dark room. My God, that is so cool. Thanks for all you do. Okay. Those eyes. I would have never thought otherwise, but I feel like there's chihuahua in this dog because of his eyes. But then pit bull and I'm sure there's a bunch of other breeds, but like a healer. I see pitbull and I see spotted chest.
- [47:35]
Alison Gill
I see what you mean by chihuahua. Yeah, maybe healer or something. Well, let's see, what do we got? He has 17 different breeds.
- [47:41]
Dana Goldberg
Look at the last picture though.
- [47:43]
Alison Gill
I know, but his top three are Pitbull, Staffy and Chihuahua.
- [47:49]
Dana Goldberg
Oh my God. I got two out of three.
- [47:51]
Alison Gill
He's a pibble wawa. He's 40 pounds of full grown and 100% companion. He's adorable.
- [47:58]
Dana Goldberg
He sure is.
- [47:59]
Alison Gill
Smiling one.
- [48:00]
Dana Goldberg
Oh my God. It's a beautiful dog.
- [48:02]
Alison Gill
Just kills me. Yeah, I gotta know what his bark is like, right? Because I have a. My bestie has a part chihuahua, like half chihuahua, half maltipoo. And it's got the chihuahua bark.
- [48:16]
Dana Goldberg
Yeah.
- [48:17]
Alison Gill
And hoo boy. Good alert system. All right, next up from Tom. Pronouns, he and him. I have been a beans listener almost every single day for three years. And when I heard your request for fruits of artistic labor, I thought my current focus might be an unconventional fit for that bill. For my 14th anniversary, my wife on Wednesday. Oh, congratulations. Happy anniversary, Tom. Yeah. I'm planning a coastal romantic puzzle hunt to celebrate.
- [48:45]
Dana Goldberg
Love this.
- [48:46]
Alison Gill
She'll go to different new spots on the coast guided by puzzles based on our romantic shared history.
- [48:52]
Dana Goldberg
Tom.
- [48:53]
Alison Gill
Including puzzles made out of rainbow dyed chocolate bars, painted rocks she'll find in a quarry labyrinth. Wedding speech quotes tied together with strings, playing cards depicting favorite meals and AI conversations with her favorite celebrities.
- [49:09]
Dana Goldberg
Okay, that's hysterical.
- [49:11]
Alison Gill
Definitely one of my favorite traditions with her. To celebrate another seven years without the seven year itch.
- [49:17]
Dana Goldberg
Tom. That's fantastic. 14 years.
- [49:21]
Alison Gill
Look at these puzzles.
- [49:22]
Dana Goldberg
That's so cool.
- [49:25]
Alison Gill
And is that French onion soup?
- [49:27]
Dana Goldberg
It doesn't look like it. Because it looks like there's some sort of like paprika and maybe basil oil on it. But maybe I'm wrong.
- [49:35]
Alison Gill
It looks delicious, whatever it is, Tom. Ah, that's so thoughtful. Well done. Well done, sir. Let us know how it goes.
- [49:43]
Dana Goldberg
Yeah, definitely. Good. Good news block today to close us out.
- [49:47]
Alison Gill
Yes. So many cute puppies. And that capybara just put me over the edge with his butt. I love his butt.
- [49:53]
Dana Goldberg
Oh my God, that's so cute. I keep seeing all these places where you can go play with otters. And I swear to God, I'm getting on a fucking plane soon.
- [50:01]
Alison Gill
One of these days, let's do a thing where we go like, let's go to see if in Cape May, New Jersey has an otter encounter as well as a capybara encounter. We can go and then if they.
- [50:11]
Dana Goldberg
Just put their little paws through the window, those little window holes, when you get to just play with their paws, I'd be fine.
- [50:16]
Alison Gill
And then we can do like a, you know, like a meet and greet.
- [50:19]
Dana Goldberg
There you go.
- [50:20]
Alison Gill
Oh, so good, everyone. Thank you. Send your good news to us dailybeanspod.com click on Contact. I needed that midweek. I really did. That's going to get me through the rest of this week. Yeah. All right, we're gonna be back in your ears tomorrow. Do you have any final thoughts, my friend?
- [50:32]
Dana Goldberg
Not today.
- [50:33]
Alison Gill
All right, we'll see you tomorrow. Until then, please take care of yourselves, take care of each other, take care of the planet, take care of your mental health and take care of your family. I've been ag.
- [50:40]
Dana Goldberg
I've been dg.
- [50:41]
Alison Gill
And them's the Beans. The Daily Beans is written and executive produced by Alison Gill with additional research and reporting by Dana Goldberg. Sound design and editing is by Desiree McFarlane with art and web design by Joelle Reader with Moxie Design Studios. Music for the Daily Beans as written and produced, performed by they Might Be Giants and the show is a proud member of the MSW Media Network, a collection of creator owned podcasts dedicated to news, politics and justice. For more information, please Visit mswmedia.com.msw media.